eeWINGS vs 5DEV Trail/Enduro Cranks - experiMENTAL: How do They Feel? Can a Crank be Supple?
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- čas přidán 11. 04. 2022
- Cane Creek eewings vs 5DEV Trail/Enduro Cranks. Today we get experiMENTAL to see if I can actually feel the difference between these two cranks, and which attributes each crank has. This test blew me away by the noticeable difference between the two. Which would you pick?
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Titanium is typically more compliant than aluminum so if you're feeling that the 5 dev are more compliant it's because they have a less stiff design, which you should expect when you remove most of the cross sectional area of the crank arm.
I almost pulled the trigger on the Rocker. Just afraid I would damage the carbon frame, so I went with the YelliScreamy due to your recent review. Should have it in a week or two. No drivetrain so I went with the GX AXS. Your channel got me back into MTB🤘🏻
Welcome back to the exciting world of MTB! Thanks for watching.
I'll probably never own either of these, but it's interesting to see how you were immediately able to notice a difference. Really appreciate the experiMENTAL videos.
Usually for me, a crank is a crank and a stem is a stem. But those eewings were noticeably snappier and stiffer. My body felt a huge difference between the two.
I think its the fact that he is riding hardtails for testing that he is very sensitive to stiffness. The dude deserves to test more components
ive been waiting for this comparison!!
My requirements for cranks have always been…
-fairly light
-pretty cheap
-look cool
I’ll actually give some thought to stiffness on future builds, thanks Steve!
Interesting, my crank requirements are:
-hold chainring and pedals
-don't break
I rode trials in the late 90s and I used 165mm Bullseye cranks for two years and switched to the then new Race Face North Shore cranks also in 165mm and square taper no less and could instantly feel a massive increase in stiffness! Cranks can absolutely change the feel of your bike.
Love the channel, keep it up!
An interesting experiment! If I remember right the reason for the cutouts on the 5Dev cranks is weight saving, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they contribute to some additional compliance. Very cool.
And of course, I see the Rocker and I gotta say cheers on the bike consultation service Steve! Been riding my new Rocker a few times as mud season rolls in here on the east coast and I could not be happier. After a couple rides I could REALLY feel that "secret sauce" in the frame.
That was a fun experiment and always good to see more play time on that Spot Rocker.
Really interesting, thanks for your perspective!
I just ordered the 5dev cranks and oval chainring today, look forward to trying them out 👍
I have the eewing’s on my Ti middle child Singlespeed with Hydra hubs and it feels like my legs are part of the drive train. I have the 5 dev 165 on my rHonzo ESD and the shorter cranks make climbs over tech much easier. They both look awesome in raw finish
Super interesting. Another great video!
GF still loving her Rocker that you recommended on Patreon last year before your spot rocker video was released. So glad we listened to you because not long after prices and lead times majorly jumped. She kills me on the climbs now so I'm selling my mojo 4 for a ripley v4 to not slow her down... lol. Loved this video! Would love to see a comparison between aluminum and carbon cranks next. Thanks again!
Thanks Steve. I just ordered the 5DEV cranks for my Binary Havok. Drop bar Hardtail with Wren fork.
thanks for the video, both cranks look rad. im not surprised of your findings as when i raced bmx i had experience on multiple cranks and you definitly new when you were on solid no flex cranks as your gate starts were more snappy so always went for the stiff ones (dxr shimano at the time) the felling sound similar like you were pushing on solid ground and instant propulsion.
Very interesting to see what the stiffness in cranks relates to in mtb and hardtails
Great insight as usual. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on handlebars. E.G. 31.8 vs 35mm, aluminum vs carbon, and anything else a bit unusual like Spank Vibrocore.
Cool experiment, I must say based on looks only I'd go for the 5Devs 👌
ohhhh... I have wanted to know about these two for a while... Very cool.
I wonder if doing this in the reverse order might have led to some different insights? Having more energy on the first lap might have changed the perception of the snap of the eeWings and also meant you went faster and thus had more force with impacts.
Also: are they the same length? A longer crank (all things being equal) will be more compliant.
I bought a pair of profile race cranks for my hard tail because hey were the only ones at the time that had 160mm cranks and I’ve always wanted a set since I was kid. I really noticed how stiff they were but I really like the shortness of the cranks a lot since I’m 5’5 with short legs!
I wonder if it's the interface between spindle and drive side crank? EEWings look like they have a higher level of interface vs the flower shape on the 5Dev cranks. While each crank arm may have similar stiffness, the spindle interface may have different flex and slip built in, similar to how i9 uses the flex of the drive ring to continually engage one more pawl as you put more power into the hub. Food for thought. Like always, these technical dives into what you feel on the trail separates you from the rest of the CZcams crowd and it's refreshing and super fun to see you geek out on trail & in the shop! Keep it up!
Interesting question. I'd be really surprised if the spindles flexed noticeably between the two. The 5dev spindle reminds me of sram's spindle, which is plenty stiff for me. I have a feeling it's mostly to do with the tubular crank arm. I also wonder if having the non ds crank arm permanently attached/welded to the spindle affctts it.
i had the profile cranks on my patterson bmx bike when i was a kid!! .. they were awesome
I have used my eeWing cranks on multiple bikes. They are currently on my Enduro rig.
I guess a control set of cranks would be ideal for comparing frames now. I'd be interested to know where some of the other more popular cranks fall on the stiffness scale. I feel like the Sram carbon cranks that came with my Rocker are stiffer than the SLX cranks on my Ripmo. You can actually see a little flex on the SLX cranks.
Love your channel Steve. Great video, never gave too much attention to cranks. I usually run aluminum so it has never been a thought. Since you bought your Rocker and rave about it so much, I'm curious on what bike you would pick if you had to. The Steel Stanton Sherpa or the Rocker. You compared the Sherpa to the Rocker which surprised me since they are completely different materials. Keep up the great work.
Depends on the use. Thankfully i have one of each and i don't have to choose.
I might travel to Sedona in november with my son (13 yo) for a week. This looks like the kind of trail we would ride together… really like your experimental videos
Hi, I have ewiings on my banshee and you do notice the difference instantly on the spin up. Are they harsh or do the cut outs on the frame help with the compliance. There is an experiment, however the ewiings are staying on the banshee. Thankful for these videos Steve, greatful for your efforts .
I ride an enduro bike and I still am looking for more plyable rims and handlebars. I did not realize cranks could have differences as well but from now I will also try to get more plyable cranks. Small differences do make a difference. 160 mm suspension and still want alu rims.
I absolutely loved my sweet wings cranks compared to the Shimano xt of that time, extremely lightweight and definitely stiffer. Other than the weight difference and look, didn't notice a real improvement on anything else, except maybe power transfer.
You're not going to see flex on asphalt or concrete when running. I'm not sure a difference in flex could be measured, but running on asphalt is definitely less punishing than running on concrete. Probably a similar feeling in the difference in the cranks.
Currently trying the evil loopholes made by fusion fiber. Didnt expect such a noticeable difference in taking out high-mid freq. I think this new carbon fiber process will be next stage of mtb evolution. The theromoset plastic carbon fiber could make a very interesting hardtail.
I have a set in for review too
My wings are very enjoyable down here in flow trail Phx/Scottsdale. Probably has a lot to do with the kind of trails you ride. I had a Ck bottom bracket issue (spacer related) and am waiting for the bearings to come back from factory. In the meantime, went back to my old SRAM cranks and noticed an instant difference. Now two weeks later, still waiting on bearings, I don’t think I can feel a difference as I am getting used to these again. Interesting video and the mind battle that plays into comparisons. 👍🏼
I noticed a more supple feel since I got the Nimble 9. Wondering if that is mainly due to frame or if the beefy Canfield cranks are contributing to that as well.
I noticed a big difference when switching from a square taper bottom bracket and crankset to a Shimano Hollowtech BB and XT crankset. It was like night and day. Shimano one was a lot stiffer, but I didn't notice it riding harsher than the old one, but it sure was a lot more responsive.
Maybe for the next experimental, you could test different stems? XC stem vs an enduro type on rough trails?
Cool theory. Both those cranks are out of my budget, but something to consider that I never would have thought of.
My engineer brain immediately started to try to design a crank that stiffens up when chainring torque is applied.
Where does something like an XX1 crank fall in with these? Just picked me up a Maniak and starting to accumulate so parts for the build!
Would love to see a comparison between the e-wing & sram XX1s. Carbon vs titanium??
Those 5DEV ones look so good. Based on your testing, I think the look and the feel of those would win the day for me.
The 5Dev 7075 aluminum cranks are definitely cool looking🤘🤘. I don't get why Shimano does not use 7075 aluminum for their crank arms. I think they use 2024 aluminum 🤔🤨.
I experienced the same thing. I bought a pair of the Eewings. Went and rode the trail I ride about 2x a week on my hardtail after I installed them. Definitely felt like I was getting beat up. First time ever I had to stop 3/4 down the trail and give my knees/ankles/feet a break. Threw my aluminum cranks back on. Went up and did the same ride. Instant difference in ride quality. Way more supple and less jarring. The Eewings went for sale the following week.
I think the eewings are great if you ride flow trails, but if you ride janky trails, they’re definitely not the ticket IMO
It's funny seeing the people here who think i have some sort of placebo effect going on here, but those who have ridden eewings understand.
I had Saint cranks on my dirt jumper. They were noticeably *too* stiff.
I bought the rocker single speed after watching your review and I'm loving it! I'm mostly riding it on Gravel and xc so I'm a big fan of the belt drive. Zero maintenance
Glad to hear it. The belt drive required more chain lube for me than a regular chain. Our dust made it squeak without lube. That rocker is indeed a special bike.
@@hardtailparty good to know. I'm on the east coast so probably less rock dust. I've got 250 miles on it so far and haven't lubed the belt once. Hopefully it holds up.
Craig size I feel matters more than brand just recently went to one 60s on my Enduro game changer
Very interesting!
Hap profile on my redline and kaston miss those days
Your videos rock! I’m saving up for the 5dev and GX AXS. I think the combi will be awesome. I’m 5’5, should I get a 160 or 165? I’ve only ridden 170 so your suggestion would really help me decide. Sending support from NY!
It probably depends on your leg length. I have a 28" inseam and I like both 160 and 165. Most of my bikes are 165s.
@@hardtailparty we have the same inseam I think 165 is the sweet spot. Thanks for the response!
Can you do coil vs air fork back to back?
Absolutely love my eewings... kinda makes you want to try the titanium 5dev cranks, am I right?
I have the ti 5dev cranks (probably about 10 or 15 videos back.)
Thanks. After watching this video now I'm asking myself all sorts of questions like could part of the snappy feeling be due to weight difference along with the flex? What about pedals? Are some pedals more compliant without feeling flexy?
Yes, pedals affect vibrations too. This is why I often ride composite flat pedals. Shoes, pedals, cranks, frame, wheels, bars, they all have different flex characteristics and it's more noticeable than you'd think.
@@hardtailparty i think pedal stiffness and compliant is true. My knee and ankle seems more battered now that I'm using DMR vaults than my previous OneUp comp pedals. Idk if its true but thats what I feel
Definitely an interesting comparison. I run 165mm eeWings on my enduro bike. Mostly because even with shorter cranks, I get a lot of pedal strikes and the titanium cranks hardly show it whereas my aluminum cranks definitely look like they've been through a war. The joys of flat, East Coast rock gardens...
I was looking at eeWings for my Chameleon until I saw your 5DEV crank review and was close to placing an order, but I've known the owner of Engin for ages and when he teased titanium versions of his new cranks, I put in a standing order. His initial price estimate was lower than eeWings, but I suspect they will end up being priced similar. The cool part is he patterned the cranks off the original M900 XTR cranks (which I had years ago), so they'll look sweet.
I hope to visit the engin shop one day. He's a true artist.
Wouldn’t mind getting some of those myself when he’s done making a few sets!
Would be interesting to see if a titanium version of the 5dev gave you the same results?
I've a Nordest Britango Ti and when running Shimano cranks, I would get slight rubbing on the back of the drive side crank, since moving to eeWings it's gone. Not sure if this is due to the stiffness or Q factor though.
I'm betting it's the q factor
Are the eeWings 3/2.5 or 6/4 Titanium?
Thanks, Steve! Now you got my brain thinking about how the 5DEVs would compare to something like the standard GX Alloy cranks...any initial suspicions? Congrats on 50k!
Sounds like a great idea for my next experimental vid. Sadly I don't have any 165mm GX cranks to perform this experiment with.
I have the same question.
@@hardtailparty Great video as always Steve! I have a extra set of 165mm GX cranks you can use. I'm in Mesa so getting them to you isn't a problem.
Yeah and maybe throw some race face cranks in there too!
@@hardtailparty I hear ya! 165mm cranks are so hard to find at the moment. Hope you get some soon!
You should do a "build on a budget" series. Have a 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, etc budget and build up bikes (or just explain) what you'd put on each to get the most bang for your buck.
I offer a similar service to my patrons.
I'm glad you do this series. It's cool that you ask these questions and do the testing. I wonder if you would notice more with a belt.
I built my Sirius with 165mm cranks because of your crank comparison. The crank length was immediately noticeable. The shorter cranks demand more quads every time I need power. I like it.
The belt feels less snappy than a chain. It almost has a soft windup
Awesome comparison and sharing! Do you think the differences in riding & body feeling come from the differences in Q factor/stance? I believe EE Wings is 176 while 5Dev is 167... Somehow I do feel wider stance affects different muscle groups. Thanks!
Great question. I need to research the q factor between the two. If anything, I'd expect a narrow q factor to be a little stiffer, not more comfortable. That said, i think it's the crank arms more than anything. These eewings have a reputation for being stiffer feeling than just about anything else out there.
@@hardtailparty Will be interesting to see an experiMENTAL on Q factors! 🤩
Would like to see a review of the affordable hardtail Rose Bonero?
I've reached out to them. Hopefully I can get one in for review. It always helps when my viewers reach out to those companies too and explain why you'd like to see it on my channel.
dude, you were flying on ewings for sure!
like how you paired the test with legit lightweight wheels. I agree that you're in the upper 5% territory, the super-bike territory. It has a life of its own and quite a treat to experience it!
Do you think that the extra snap from stiffer cranks will put more stress on your chain and make it wear out faster?
Very interesting question. I don't know. I'm betting it wouldn't put noticeable amount of wear on the chain.
I would love those 5dev cranks on my fuse, just to absorb some of that impact harshness on my legs when I do some drops or jumps.
Yeah, the fuse is a stiff bike
@@hardtailparty the only way to make the tail slightly softer is to push the drop out all the way back but that needs 150mm fork...haha
Have you noticed much difference between the 5Dev and your RF Turbines? Was the rest of your drivetrain Advent X for this comparison?
Yes, this is an advent x drivetrain. I haven't ridden turbines for a little while now. I'd love to compare anout 10 cranks back to back.
seems like that stiff snappyness could feel nice on a single speed.
These 5dev cranks are the last upgrade I plan to do with my Chameleon.
I still run profile cranks on my single speed
Are the 5 Devs hollow on the NDS or is there a bolt there? Meaning can a Scorpion stand be used with them?
There's a bolt on there, so you can pull each crank arm off separately. That also allows you to swap spindle sizes and keep the same crank arms.
@@hardtailparty OK, that's what I thought but haven't seen a NDS image to confirm. Thanks for the info! BTW, I wonder how a DUB Carbon (GX/X01) crank would feel in comparison? Sounds like another parking lot crank change video! lol
@@ThunderStruckMTB sadly that would require a bb swap too since those have a 29mm spindle. Maybe i can get a 29mm spindle for my 5dev cranks.
What about compairing these two with shimano latest slx cranks?
Maybe one day i an compare 20 different cranks. I've never fell in love with Shimano cranks for some reason.
It’s very odd since Ti is more bouncy by nature and Alu does not have that quality. If in fact the Alu is flexing I would expect it to be weakening an alarming rate. Is there a way to measure this effect? That’s how I understand the metallurgy Alu should not flex. I don’t think the 5 axis is flexing that much. Happy to be wrong tho!
There's more to account for than just the material. Aluminum rims and handlebars flex all the time, yet we don't worry too much about fatigue on them. If thickness and shape were constant, then yes, aluminum should be more rigid, but there are far more factors at okay here. Everything flexes to some degree. The cranks aren't bending, they're just moving slightly.
Frequencies 😎
I want those 5dev in 165
I'm guessing these $1,60000🍁 EEWing Cane Creek cranks and also the 7075 5Dev cranks are better than my 2008 XT 770 crank🤔😏🤘🤘. I'm also still using the original chainrings🙆♂️🤨
Try the Ti on one side ans Aluminum on the other
Hah. If only the spindles we're interchangeable. Cranks don't really work that way.
What full suspension bike are you riding these days?
I'll make a video of that soon
Well crap, now I need you to do RF Next SL vs XTR vs XX1 ...
So many experiments... So little time.
ti vs carbon vs vibercore handlebars next?
I like that idea!
When you do this test, have a buddy install them for you and disguise them, and then take notes on feeling alone
Interesting and unexpected.
I want some ee wings so bad....
save those pennies!
I wanna see a 5dev crank in titanium
Ti is denser than aluminum, but I agree, that'd be cool to see.
diminishing returns
Yeah, but only a supple of time every year ; -)
The joint pain you've been feeling is you training your butt off riding everyday
No lie, it gets to me. I have to ride the fs a bit more when i get beat up like this.
That's one place that shouldn't be supple. I need all power delivered through the crank without flex
Everything bike-wise is too stiff these days, and our bodies have to soak up the harshness. It’s fine if you are athletic and twenty-something, but that doesn’t last long.
Agreed. I feel like iso certification and engineering standards and fear of injury and lawsuit are a good thing, but they definitely lead to stiffer, more overbuilt bikes.