Meet The Gaffer #62: Mole Richardson Fresnels
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Here we discuss LED fresnels in general and Mole Richardson fresnels in particular.
Link to the podcast: Filmmakers Drinking Bourbon
/ episode-099-meet-the-g... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
10K plugged into a household circuit. The future is looking bright!
As someone who owns exclusively second hand Mole fixtures, I am confident in their ability to support their products. I was sent (For free) some rolled pins to fix a broken spot/flood mechanism on a baby 1K. A small gesture, sure, but they were very easy to contact and were quick to help. I had no qualms picking up a used 5K Senior LED (Daylight only) relatively recently and it's a fantastic light. Probably physically the biggest fixture I'll ever want to own, but it's manageable by one person a wheeled wind up stand.
This is awesome!! I've been looking for a real world look at the Senior LED Fresnel for the past two years!!!
Very cool. I haven't used a Mole Tenor yet, but I get the use case if it has more output than an Arri L10
Cinematography Database The L10 is closer to a 1,700K tungsten where as the Tenor uses about that much with LED. I have an L10 and just got a Mole Senior. The Senior they are about the same size, the L10 is heavier but is balanced better in the yoke. The Senior is much brighter putting out the same amount of light at Flood as the L10 does at spot.
The Senior doesn’t make the sharpest shadows but I primarily got it bounce the light. Something I started doing a lot more after watching you videos, Matt.
+Reuben Isaac/Matt, Thank you for the feedback! I’m interested to see how the Daylight only units compare to the Kelvin tunable versions in terms of output. The Arri L series has the bonus of having RGB, but if the fresnel is larger and the output a lot brighter, I would lean towards the Mole. Looking forward to it!
Would love to see BTS pics from some bounced light set ups... “always learning” is a great approach!
Luke Seerveld I’ll be doing some tests with the Senior this week. I just got it this past Friday. I just sent you an email so it will be easier to send you photos.
+Reuben Isaac, Looking forward to hearing about your tests!
We have 2 Teners at work. Make sure there’s NOTHING else on the same circuit. The light out put on a household 15 amp outlet is amazing and clean. I love it. I wish there was a duplicate dimmer on the power supply for when the lamp is out of reach.
Been thinking about getting fresnel LEDs. Thanks for the excellent video!
Lovely, Classic, Contemporary lights, Probably my first step into Led
Thanks for putting this awesome video together, very in-depth! I'm really excited about the LED Tener, hope to use one sometime. Also, cool to see Mila on here!
+Austin Peck, I kind of blind sided her with the request to be on camera, but she did a great job.
Nice info! Thanx for the upload!
Great breakdown Luke! Especially of all the different kinds, it can get confusing quickly ha! Loved the discussion on lack of LED Fresnels in the industry.
Thank you, Zachary. Of course those who have been manufacturing fresnels all along probably take issue with the premise, but I'm hoping there will be a trend of using Fresnels more/again to do what they do so well:-)
very good review thank a lot
I loved the discussion of the quandary about why Fresnel usage is in decline and whether the LEDs will revive it. By the way the 5k Senior is only 56K or 32K - there is no bi-color yet.Also would be interested in hearing more about the Lumenradio built-in to the Moles and is not standard int he Arris yet.
+Alan Steinheimer, Right, I think the 5K combo color version was just being shown at the show, but is not available. I noticed that the either/or senior on their site lists 900 watts, while the combo is 800 watts. Tech is moving so fast it's confusing!
Will Lumen radio be incorporated into the S360?
As usual, a great informative video Luke. Thank you!!! I assume the TENER LED is equivalent to a HMI 2.5?
+fabio dominguez, That was my assumption too... Interesting to see if they come out with a color changeable version in the next year:)
Another awesome video! I purchased the 5k daylite back in February and it has been my workhorse in everything from full night ext to day ext narrative and interviews. I was looking for a heavy hitter to put in my 1ton cargo van package and the senior fit perfectly - no ballast, headcables, or scrim bags to take up space or setup time. The low power consumption is unbelievable across their whole led line for the punch you get out of them. The varimole tweenies (650w equivalent) feel more like a 1k and just like the senior have a beautifully soft beam. When you see the guy put his hand on the fixture, it really is only warm even if it's been burning for 6hrs. My crew and I were joking the other day that we can't remember the last time we needed gloves while working off my truck since I got invested in the LED line!
But there are a few complaints that should be addressed. Everyone's first question is about color. On the non plus/minus green versions there is a touch of green so I usually have 1/8 minus handy (however this is also within the same range of color shift you get from hmi's and kinos).
The 0-100 dimmable is true BUT the dimming curve is not incrementally accurate. If you want to drop 20 pts you're looking not at the 8 on the dial but more like 6. 50% is more around 3 and lower from there takes a gentle touch - so just gotta have your light meter ready.
At least with my varimole tweenies the fan can be heard when you use it in a super quiet scene if it's close to the mics but it's no louder than a RED and I've only ever had 1 sound guy inquire about the noise. And also there is a steady high pitched tone when you're between color temps that is barely noticeable (could be the tinnitus though) and it's nowhere near a screaming joker 800 or old Hmi lamp.
All in all I'll be buying more into the MoleLED line and can't wait for them to come out with a vari tenner and a dedo style inkie.
+John Knudsen, Wow, thank you for the wonderful in-the-field testimony! Very good to hear. Yes, a vari-Mole Tener would be sweet. Thank you again for adding to the conversation.
Thanks for this hands-on feedback. Since you mention that you are using it on interviews, is there any noise issues with the 5K light?
Great video! Very helpful & those lights are incredible.
So the "Tener" can be used for the Batman symbol? (asking for a friend).
Ha, ha!
Amazing content!!!
+Alex Woodruff, Thank you for watching!
Hey Luke,
On fresnels, I watched an interview with a DP who spoke about how younger DPs will never get to work with large lights and that there was a certain aesthetic about having a large fresnel lens as opposed to smaller lenses. He wasn't talking in terms our output, just lens size. Any thoughts or experience with that?
Well, it's true... it's like how some folks wish we'd stuck with arcs. There's just a different quality to the light of live flame than tungsten, HMI, or certainly a manufactured spectrum like LED. In terms of large fresnels, they may not come back to the extent that they were when they were most prominent, but hopefully we'll find ways to incorporate that wonderful glass into new fixtures that give us all the capability of new tech along with the texture of light from yesteryear!
I also got my start using good 'ol fresnels!
I have used the Daylight LED versions of the Tweenie, Studio Junior, and the Vari-Mole and have loved them!
That being said, their output is not 100% equivalent to the Tungsten/Incand versions, but are close enough in all practical terms.
Good lights! Would last a career!
+a cinematographer's journal, Have wondered about output... good note!
Had optical snoots and spotlight mounts like the aputure max not been invented yet? (Just started making videos and buying lights this past year)
Love this channel!
I don’t think Aputure had gotten into spotlight mounts quite yet, but there were plenty of units with spotlight attributes, like ETC DaylightHD ellipsoidals and Dedo DLED 7’s, if I’m not mistaken. This ep was just highlighting the fact that a company known for tungsten fresnels, pars, and soft light, as well as HMI’s, was presenting at the show as an all LED manufacturer and mostly fresnels.
Great information! Does this mean you’re going to get some of the fixtures yourself? Mole Richardson makes my favorite lights. Most of the Mole fixtures I have I’ve gotten off of a Ebay, though I wish to own some of their newer LED fresnels someday. Buying these old used lights make for fun restoration projects with my father. One of them being an old 751 that was in poor condition when purchased, but now it looks brand new thanks to Mole offering their signature maroon in a spray can. Most companies would just say to buy a new light, but Mole offers a way to restore their older fixtures. They also have exploded views of all their products in the catalog section of their website. I really appreciate things like that. Also, the quality of light their fixtures produce is wonderful.
The fiver and tener are intriguing for sure! Yes, Mole makes fixtures that are very repairable. We used to sandblast them before repainting and they would come out like new:) I remember taking a tour of their assembly plant when I was starting out 30 years ago... it was very impressive. It's also nice to see companies like Kino and Mole transitioning whole heartedly to the new technology in a thoughtful way.
Luke Seerveld I can imagine so. It’s a shame when brands fail to change with technology. One shouldn’t completely abandon the older technology in my opinion. That’s why I like these LED fresnels. The fresnel lens is ancient, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a completely viable technology for producing a certain light. So by adding LED’s to their fresnels they are breathing new life into an old design - which is exactly what you were saying. Also, I can’t wait to say something along the lines of “when I was starting out 30 years ago...” as I am in the process of starting my career now and still have a lot to figure out. Your channel has given me a wealth of information about the very career I wish to pursue. :)
+Jon Roberson, When you love what you do you have a great opportunity to stick with it through the lean times and the good times. Sounds like you'll do just fine! And thank you for joining the dialogue...
Even as a person who got into the industry just as LEDs were becoming a thing I remained skeptical of their entry into the fresnel world. It was too obvious. The early LED panels created multiple shadows which absolutely needed to be diffused so it doesn't look horrible, and they had funny edges on the shadows. They also had the strange coloration around the edges of the shadows. I've seen both of those problems disappear with the Aladdin - I love me some bi-flex and definitely use them often nowadays. Then I saw the first LED Fresnel from Dexel. Oh my. Absolute failure. The edges looked terrible, fuzzy, strangely colored - they just didn't cut as cleanly as I see the tungsten fresnels do. I thought I will definitely wait a few years for the LED technology to be incorporated into the fresnel world - now this video brings us the good news BUT I feel like we fully wont be able to judge until we see how these lights cast shadows in a dark scene as a solo source. It's to me the real LED test...It's interesting that the same Senior has different CRI values for tungsten(95) versus daylight (90).
+Zahed Bata, Many LED units that can be purchased in different color temp also have different CRI values. I would think it would be the other way round because I think of tungsten as being a blue LED with a phosphor coating... but my technical understanding is sadly limited and probably behind the times. Beyond that, I thought the CRI index was not as accurate in relation to LEDs... but again, I would defer to more knowledgeable people:-)
Regardless, I look forward to the variable color version of the Mole tener...
Now I am limited on my knowledge, so correct me if I am wrong, but the biggest issue with LED's is that they are source due to their quick falloff. I would put money that if you had a pitch black room with no lights on and a single window and you wanted to have one source, an old Tenner would fill that room up significantly more then the led tenner. In that an LED tenner would drop-off more as the light bounced, leaving the room less filled then if you went the traditional route. The draw comparison, however, makes me not care one bit about the falloff comparison. 1600 draw for a 10k equivalent, there is bound to be some down sides. The pros outweigh the cons, as far as I can see.
Agreed. I’m intrigued, and look forward to seeing a big Fresnel source in action and also compared to the traditional units. Fun times ahead:)
18:25 - what was your exposure triangle settings for this shot? And what time of day was it?
+raredreamfootage, Sorry, I was just visiting this set so I have no idea, but it was later afternoon during the summer. I’m looking forward to the Kelvin tunable version of the “ten-er” that should come out early next year. Output might be less than the daylight only version, but I’m pretty much hooked on the greater flexibility.
At FSU's Film School we use both the 5k Senior and the 10K Tenner and they are probably the most used lights on our sets. We however have found that the 10K pulls about 17 Amps so it deserves it's own circuit if you're on house power but we also have a generator at our disposal. The color quality of the daylight LEDs are around 87 SSI, I think. Their CRI is at 95. I would always have the 5k or 10k on any set that I shoot. There are issues in terms of green and magenta casting with both so It's important to be aware of that. I try to put on half or quarter magenta in front of these lights.
Are these daylight or tungsten LED fresnel or color tunable?
@@meetthegaffer Both are Daylight LEDs. we don't have the color tunable :(
Copy. The tunable ones would have G/M tuning too. But it’s a good learning opportunity for students:) You are fortunate to have those units in school.
@@meetthegaffer Do you know if the Sekonic C-700 is able to measure discontinuous lighting like Florescent and LEDs accurately? Our school is considering getting new color meters.
Yes it can, but the C-800 has a few more attributes, like X/Y. That may be the best at the moment.
There’s a local rental place selling the single color moles for cheap. Temped to get a baby or tweenie given the price. Assuming the LEDs don’t die I’m pretty sure I’d be selling when I retire.
I would get them in your hands first. Don’t buy them sight unseen.
@@meetthegaffer Given its about 30 mins away I'd almost certainly drive and look before agreeing to buy.
I wonder how these compare to the Aputure 1200D today.
Good question!
Hi Luke do you think LEDs will replace filament or HMI lights entirely? I want to invest in some 'traditional' lamps but shelling out thousands for some fixtures is not a good investment if the tech is dying...
Call me crazy, but I think the units most in danger of going out of date are the current batch of LEDs, because that’s the tech that is changing the most:) I may not use my tungsten units very often, but I haven’t gotten rid of them completely. Would I invest in tungsten, no. HMI’s however still have better throw, generally speaking, so it depends what you are planning to do. It’s not any easy answer for any of us, even though we can all see the trend:)
I've been told HMI replacement lamps are being discontinued... do you see that happening?
If HMI are on the way out, that is really sad. I LOVE the look of HMI.
Are these lights waterproof? Or do they require a rain guard?
I would imagine they are not rainproof, but don’t quote me:)
@@meetthegaffer Great, thank you!
The level of enthusiasm throughout this presentation is ab- so - luuu -- zzzZZZz.
It’s tough to provide Ted Sim (Aputure) level enthusiasm non-stop when you’ve been talking all day for a couple days in the din of Cinegear🤪
Grip friendly lights
2022 what happened with these? I remember when these came out and that Aputure never mentioned these at all.
Not sure I understand the question. Are you asking why Aputure didn’t mention Mole Richardson LED’s or why you don’t hear a lot about Mole units period?
@@meetthegaffer I wonder why Aputure pretended there was no COB Point source LED lights in the past until they created one? It always bothered me.
Do you know Gaffers who have used these Mole LED fixtures?
I don’t know the fine points of that claim, but it may have to do with the way the emitters are manufactured: chip on board (COB) vs arrays. But I’m out of my depth there!
As far as knowing people who own Mole Richardson LEDs and use them and enjoy them, I sadly don’t know anyone. I will say that some manufacturers just don’t penetrate certain markets while doing well in others. But it does seem odd when a brand that used to be ubiquitous no longer is top of mind.
I covered the Mole line-up at a couple Cinegear shows, but haven’t had that opportunity during COVID. I don’t know if Mole has reached out to CZcamsrs to augment their marketing.
@@meetthegaffer Thank you for your time, Luke! Hope you have a wonderful day.
Could you please make a video on freshnel, pars and HMI? It's very confusing.
That could be fun. Basically you have a point source that is in one concentrated place, like the glowing filament of a light bulb, or a tungsten halogen bulb, or an HMI bulb. You put that bulb into a housing to optimize the out put of the light. A so called fresnel, is when you place a stepped fresnel lens in front of the point source and a smallish reflector behind the point source. You can move the point source closer or farther away from the fresnel lens to get a wider or narrower beam of light. That’s called flooding and spotting the light. You can also take that point source and build a larger reflector behind and around it. The reflector is not just a small scoop, but more of a parabolic shape. This is your basic PAR unit that can be open or lensed in front of the point source. Some PARS are fixed in one position and others have the ability to move the point source so you get a narrower and wider beam spread (spot and flood). Tungsten bulbs are warmer (redder) in terms of color temperature and get warmer as you dim them, more orangier, while HMI bulbs are cooler (bluer) in terms of color temperature... color temperature is often talked about in Kelvin rather than Celsius or Fahrenheit. When LEDs came out they didn’t work so well as a replacement to single point sources because you needed a lot of points to generate enough light to be comparable to tungsten or HMI. Manufacturers tried lots of things with greater and lesser success, but basically you have blue LEDs that are painted with phosphor for color temperature and lensed to focus them. The more emitters you put in close proximity the more cooling you need to provide, spread out the emitters and you get panels with various lenses or translucent fronts, jam the emitters together and you have a new version of a point source and can attempt to place traditional fresnel lenses in front of them. The Cineo R15 mounts the emitters to an post that sticks out from the reflector in the same way an HMI bulb would stick out of the reflector in a standard PAR unit. But many closely mounted emitters do not make a point source, so the effect is somewhat different and is worth watching. Fiilex lighting is another manufacture who is creating LED point sources in a way that no one else is doing... so also worth watching!
Thank you Luke so much. It's very helpful. I have one another question - Does sodium vapour bulbs used in the street lights good have good CRI? If not how do we achieve that effect?
Maybe a better question is whether street lights using that kind of source is pleasing for skin tone when you are using other units as well. You can gel your other lights to be close in look by using gel or dial them in if they are higher end LEDs. David Mullen has some good answers and ideas here:
cinematography.com/index.php?/topic/66744-how-to-achieve-this-look-with-sodium-vapour-lights/
@@meetthegaffer Thank you Luke.
👍
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I'm calling shenanigans. The Tener 10K is a 1600 watt light that puts our 2500 watts? What?!?!?
The Joker 1600 HMI also runs on 15 amps... and a refurb unit will run ya 1/5 the cost of a refurbed Mole.
Until you get in a room with both units or use both units next to each other on a job it’s had to make definitive statements. Marketing is marketing.
It's a classic... It's a Ferrari...
:)