Troubleshooting and Tuning the Hilborn Mechanical Injection in my '57 Chevy Delivery
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- čas přidán 2. 04. 2022
- I am back to work on the '57 delivery trying to figure out why it is running poorly. I dive into the mechanical injection and try and do a bit of tuning. Watch until the end to see if we get to go for a ride!
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Hey Brad, You will get it sorted out. You are so meticulous about checking everything that you will find the problem. Thanks for the shout out. Glad you were able to make use of the feeler gauge. Cant wait for the next video. Keep on keeping on.
Thanks Randy, I hope you're right. Thanks again for the tools, much appreciated. New video soon!
Barry Gilgen great to see you back, was tired of going past montana garage when I go down my list of videos guys, like your content, my son has a 1955 belair 2 dr hardtop which is in great shape but always needs work, like all do
Thanks for the kind words Barry. I appreciate you watching. I'm going to be a bit more consistent with videos now, so hopefully you won't have to go past Montana Garage too much any more. Cool that your son has a '5 hardtop. I'd love to see it. If you have pics send 'em to the email and tell him good luck with it!
great video Brad keep up the great work!
Thanks David. Hope things are going well with your project buddy!
The sprint car guys sure figured it out
Yes they did. It is very popular with the sprint car crowd. Need to find me a sprint car buddy... Thanks for watching.
Hi Brad, hope you have the fuel injection system sorted out and running great in that 57. If not, then you will need to look at the fuel tank as it absolutely must be mounted above the fuel pump - well above, if possible. Those mechanical pumps don't very well and need a constant, reliable gravity feed through -8 or larger lines. You've obviously got loads of projects on the go so the last thing you need is to have problems with any of them. Your videos are well produced and have great, interesting content - a pleasure to watch. Thanks.
Thanks for watching and for the kind words. To be honest I haven't really messed with it since this old video as I've been focusing on my '55. I know it is best to have the tank gravity feed, but I was thinking it was mostly for initial starting. Thanks for the advice.
Run a compression test, set air flow with flow meters and adjust mixture with vacuum gauge, and check your dwell setting, give it more advance. Has to be very well balanced mixture, with all that intake air, air flow meters set on air horn, little balls that float, used to set air flow evenly, very important tool, for that set-up.
Thank Jessie. I'll look into the air flow meters and a compression test may not be a bad idea. There is no mixture to adjust or dwell (no points), but I will definitely double check the timing next time I fire it up.
@@MontanaGarage the tool is called a manometer. in the bike world we call them carb sticks. easy enough to make with clear vinyl tubing and a yardstick. 1 tube per cylinder, yardstick to measure column of water {inches of vac}. i also think your fuel pump and/or filter is the culprit.
Great video! I never have done the airflow test on mine (I have 2 early Hilborn Systems). I need to put together a flowchart of all the adjustments and the order on how to do them to dial these in. All my great Hilborn tuners have passed. Don Enriquez and Andy are difficult to reach now that Hilborn has gone to Holley. Seems like changing the plugs solved a lot of my problems after getting the butterflies adjusted and the right pill in it. The only time I went to the drags with my Gasser, it was popping and banging too. I made 3 passes with it and my Hilborn guy was with me. We got the idle set and put a smaller pill (to richen it up) in it on the 3rd pass. Later, when I saw Don at Hilborn to get parts, he gave me a new coated poppet valve (The pointed triangular cap with the pill and spring) and told me to ditch the old crusty brass one. I put it in and drove it around the block after a car show, wow!...big difference! Here is the link of the day I took the car out for the first time and made 3 passes...you can hear it popping and banging too. czcams.com/video/wdXO64t6lyk/video.html
Thanks man. I have a lot to learn on these things myself. I'll have to look into that coated poppet valve. I'll check out the video in the link for sure.
You know, even though you're not cranking videos every day, it's still quite nice when you do put one out.
Hey Gary thanks a bunch for watching and for the kind words. Much appreciated!
Does pretty good on old school mechanical Hilborn injection!
It does when everything is working right anyhow. Thanks for watching Kurt.
awesome,i love my 55 gasser!!
Hey man thanks a ton for watching. I remember seeing your '55 on IG. I thought you were trying to sell it. I remember because I wanted to buy it haha. Guess you must have held on to her. Thanks again for watching man. Much appreciated. 👊
Good Evening My Friend! Enjoy Watching Your CZcams Channel! Keep Up The Great Work 👍
Thanks as always Gary!
Spring is here, reminder to insulate the garage while weather is fair 🤣
I love having a insulated garage even in summer, a portable AC unit can make the garage the most desirable location to be on hot days.
I'm with you David. Brad forgot to do this last year and froze all winter too!
Technically spring is here, but winter seems to be hanging on up here... Who needs insulation? Just kidding. Thanks for the reminder, but I think I'll wait until late fall, then realize I don't have time to get it done, and freeze for another winter or ten. haha Hopefully that won't be the case and I'll actually get it done this summer sometime. The insulation process itself probably won't be that bad, it's moving all my junk that I don't look forward too. I appreciate you watching David.
Thanks Jim. I didn't "forget" I was just to lazy to get it done... Hopefully that won't happen this summer.
Nice ride bud ,hope you get the little bugs out of it . She definitely got some gety,up and go .
Thanks Lonnie. It does go...
This video was very interesting, seems like a simple system but temperamental. Summer is just around the corner.
I think that sums it up pretty good Lester. I can't wait for summer, that is for sure. Thanks!
I could be wrong, because I really don't know anything about Hillborn injection, but I am still thinking that it may be sticky valve(s) on left side. I always do final valve adjustments with the engine running. To keep oil from spilling all over the engine and headers. Get yourself a used or cheap pair of valve covers and cut the tops off of them, with a grinder with a cutoff wheel. Also I would double check your timing. Good luck. I love that car, and I am sure you will get it figured out. Thanks for the video
Thanks David. Yeah, I agree it is better to adjust hot and running, but messy indeed. I have the cut out valve cover for a small block, just don't have a big block one yet. Probably a good idea to try though. Thanks for watching.
Great video as usual. The old Delivery is sounding pretty nasty, even with the sputtering. Good luck with the investigations. Hoping we've seen the last of the snowfall up here in my neck of the woods. Still cool but when it is below 0C we're not getting any precipitation. Fingers crossed. Be safe and stay well.
Thanks as always Brian. Hopefully I can remedy the sputtering soon.
I Love the Liecence plate, SAYUNCLE 😍
Thanks Kevin. Kind of a dual meaning, because I got the car from my uncle if you didn't know. And, he used to make me "say uncle". I appreciate the comment.
Great video! Think I missed the sticker cutoff!
Thanks for watching. Still stickers available, just email me your address and I'll send 'em out.
I just missed a hilborn set up last month. Was gone by the time I got the 1500 together for it which was only a couple days later.
Dang, seems like a decent deal. Thanks for watching.
Always enjoy your videos... did you say stickers? I love stickers... decals... keep Mobbin!
Thanks Josh. I did say stickers and I have some for you. email me your address and I'll get 'em headed your way. Mob rules!
well you covered everything that I could think of but I don't know anything about adjustment on or even how that fuel injection system works. hopefully you'll figure it out. Probably something minor. Good video though 😎👍
Thanks Gorni. The problem is I don't know how it works either! I'll get it eventually.
Derek VGG has his special button
Yep, the Lone Wolf 3000. I need to get me one of those, they seem a bit more efficient than the turning by hand method.
Fun to watch your diag,! About lost it on the 'laptop' redo .😂 Is Moose still at the spa then ?
Thanks. I was hoping at least someone would like my "laptop" joke. Moose has been holding out for more pay. I'll handle it and get him back in a video soon. I think now I know why my views have been down....
Good day, Montana Garage. Swamppy here. Excellent content. You should paint the delivery wagon, Black as night and call it Black Widow. One nasty ride. And the 55', orange 🍊. Is that 55'a 150, 210,or a del-ray,or a Bel-Air??????
Thanks for the suggestions Swamppy. Much appreciated. I'm not sure anything around here will ever actually get painted though... haha. The '55 is a 210.
What kind of distributor do you have. Is it an after market HEI one for under $75.00. I hear that some of the springs in the mechanical weights go bad. I'm going to check mine because I'm having a similar problem and it's driving me nuts.
It is a Mallory Unilite, so not a cheap Chinese knoeck off. I have not looked into or at the spring for the mechanical advance, so that is something on my list next time I' fighting with it. Thanks for the tip!
Brad did you check the screens at the end of the nozzles? Are you running a by pass, make sure it’s not stuck, have you messed with adjusting the barrel valve?
I have not checked the screens, but know I should. I do have a secondary bypass, so I will check that also. I have adjusted the barrel valve a bit with the leak down test. Thanks for the help buddy.
Yet back
Yep, finally. Thanks!
Valve covers dented can’t get worse that that good to go
Yeah, that is probably not ideal...
Hope that helps
You bet I appreciate any and all halo always!
Been looking Into hilborn set ups and other mechanical fuel injection set ups. Anything you'd recommend looking into?
It's for a motorcycle build on a vintage inspired motor. Knucklehead to be exact. But might come in handy for my 69 gto in the future.
For the motorcycle however I'm planning a turbo. And taking Inspiration from old racing set ups. Stuff like the drake watercooled and petruzzi watercooled knucklehead engines. And stuff like the evil mother knucklehead.
Found some very blurry images of hand drawn diagrams of a mechanical fuel injection set up on a knucklehead as well. But can't get much info. So to the car guys I come.
Sounds like you've got a couple of cool projects. I cannot really help you too much with the Hilborn for a knucklehead. Everything I learned about them just came form the web, either Hilborn website (now Holley I believe) or from a site called Alkydigger - lots of good stuff there so check it out. Good luck, and thanks for watching.
@@MontanaGarage oh its deffs gonna be a fun little project. Was more so looking for Any general info on hilborn injection. It's kind of a lost art and I know there's info kinda spread all over the web. I'll check out that site you recommended thanks a bunch.
Hey Stranger, where have you been !! Hope you and your family are all doing fine !! Ed/A
Thanks Ed. All good here. I just haven't been able to make time for CZcams lately. I'll try and be more consistent in the future.
Great job , before you send fuel pump out , why not set up couple buckets with measured gallons , drive pump with a drill motor you should get a close measure on flow! JUST FYI, , GOOD LUCK
Thanks for the tip Carmelo. I could probably do that, but I would have no way to REALLY tell how it is flowing now compared to how it flowed when checked. It has to be done at a specific rpm, held consistently, etc. You're right, I could get an idea of flow, but just not something I could accurately compare or tune with I don't think. I appreciate you always watching and trying to help friend.
Looking at the fuel supply to the pump inlet should be at about -8an or bigger and paper fliters should be after the pump and stainless gause before the pump the paper fliters are too restricted hope this will help
Thanks for the tips Alan. I'll look into filter options and see if there is a better way to do that part of the system. This filter is actually from Hilborn, and their instructions say to plumb it before the pump, so I don't "think" that should be my problem.
@@MontanaGarage Brad, I believe your fuel tank should be above the pump. Hard to tell from the video but it appears your tank is below the pump.
hi can you use a elc. fuel pump 0n a hilborn setup i have everything but the timing chain cover pump get back to me its a sbc
Hi Robert. Thanks for watching. You cannot use an electric pump with mechanical injection. The pump needs to deliver more or less fuel based on engine rpm, so you must use the crank driven pump. Good luck finding a pump and getting things figured out. Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm no expert, but ill help if I can. Also, Alkydigger.com is a good resource for parts, info, etc.
The rubber valve cover gaskets might work better for you. 👍
Yep, them stabilizer's bars can not touch the valve covers at all, and he had big old gouges in the covers , best take a block of wood and a mallet and beat hell out of covers to gain clearance as that alone can hold a valve open .
Thanks Jeff. I tried rubber, and at least the ones I had were not thick enough to give me clearance on the stabilizers. I then tried double rubber gaskets to get the clearance, but then had leaking issues.
Thanks again Mike. I'll make room as noted in your other comment.
Them rocker arm stabilizer's bars can NOT touch the valve covers at ALL! Take a mallet and block of 2X4 and beat the hell out of them covers to gain clearance. That is most likely part of your issue.
Thanks Mike. It seemed like they were just barely hitting, so I thought maybe no big deal, but what you say makes sense and I se how that could cause some issues. I'll add a gasket, or gain clearance as you say. I appreciate you watching and trying to help.
@@MontanaGarage I had the very SAME issue when I went to a 1:65 rocker from a 1:5 under stock valve covers, back fires and same crazy conditions your having. I HATE all after market covers, had to machine up a aluminum shim spacer to go under the covers with 2 valve cover gaskets, Problem solved. One of them been there done that deals. Trying to fix a small problem with big money in parts is sometimes just not the answer.
@@hydroy1 Thanks again for the tip. I'll figure out a way to gain some clearance and maybe problem solved? 👊
Brad
You don't happen to have a spark plug wire(s) out of sequence? The popping is a link to out of order plug wires & or timing out of range.
Rick
Never hurts to double/triple check the firing order I guess, but it "should" be right. I'll double check the timing as well next time I fire it up. Thanks for the tips Rick. I've seen a few people having there cars out on some of our nicer days. Looks like it's time to get the four door out to start cruising soon...
@@MontanaGarage Absolutely. Cruise on by when you are out & about!
Timing? Sparking? Fuel pressure reg?
Timing seems ok, and spark seems strong. There is no fuel pressure regulator in this system. Thanks for the tips!
You got a fuel filter on there from the 70s?
Possibly. This whole system is from the 70's. My uncle got it running again in the 90's, so maybe it's as "new " as that. I know, probably should at least replace the element, but it still looks good. Thanks for watching and commenting!
We ever going to see the chevelle get driven on the channel
Hopefully. Right now she's just a roller, so not a lot of driving happening... It is currently tucked away in the house garage. Once I get the '55 driving, then the Chevelle will become the main project. I've always been a Trifive guy, but I'm a sucker for a '69 Chevelle. Next time I unbury it and drag it out of it's corner, I'll do a walk around so you guys can see a bit more about it.
Correction yer back.
Thanks David. I'll try and be a bit more consistent...
Forty lashes with a wet noodle to you for painting a 4 speed orange
Well in this video the four speed is red, just to match the engine/bellhousing. Still forty lashes? I didn't know paining them red/orange was bad. I did paint the one in my '55 orange though. What is the correct or preferred color for a four speed? Thanks for watching.
Put the fuel filter after the fuel pump instead of before the fuel pump
A filter before the pump is necessary as is one before the engine
Thanks David. All the Hilborn schematics I have seen show the filter before the pump, so that is the way I plumbed it.
Thanks KD. I don't think I've ever seen a schematic show a filter after the pump (before the engine). Although it seems like a good idea for filtering purposes, maybe to much restriction in the flow after the pump? Not sure, I just don't think I seen it recommended that way....
@@MontanaGarage run an 8-10 an filters are good for 800-1200 hp.
Looks like the majority voted for filter before pump ... Maybe a 10 /20 micron screen before, not so much a true filter.
I really don't know about direct FI, just go with your common sense, get all the fuel to engine as possible and keep it clean!!! VROOM VROOM
The popping and banging could be a vacuum leak. Make sure the intake manifold is sealed well to the cylinder heads and all rubber vacuum lines aren't dry rotted. Good luck. I'm guessing you've given up on taking the '55 to the Rocky Mtn. event you said you were trying to take it to this summer. While the '57 is awesome, work on the '57 seems like a waste of time if you're really trying to make the event with the '55. Just an opinion. :)
Thanks for the tip. I'll spray some carb cleaner around the base of the manifold next time it's running to see if there happens to be a vacuum leak. There isn't a single vacuum line on this thing, and I don't think there is even any vacuum ports coming off the manifold. I'll poke around and see if there is something I forgot about that has a bad cap on it or something though, just to be sure. I haven't necessarily given up on RMRW, but it's gonna be tough after missing about 6 weeks in the shop, so probably not happening. I'm still gonna give 'er though. I wasted time working on the '57 because 1) I had a video half way done, and I wanted to get some content out, and 2) I love working on and driving that thing. So time well wasted is my opinion. Thanks again for watching!
@@MontanaGarage - I wasn't sure that Hilborn would have any vacuum lines or ports. I didn't think so but thought it might be worth mentioning if it did. You were so enthusiastic about trying to make the car event with the '55 that I figured, "come hell or high water", you'd be laser focused on getting the '55 ready. I understand though. You weren't guaranteed a spot at the event. I sill look forward to your videos. Keep up the good work.
Just thinking, maybe you have a bad plug wire or a crack in the distributor cap.
Cap is pretty new and "looks" good. Probably could use some new plug wires...
The plug wires looked like they might be arcing out on your headers maybe try a basic tune up
Thanks or the tip. Did you see arcing in the video? The number 8 wire has arced in the past. I have the "bad" spot aped up. New plug wires would probably be a good idea, but last time I checked (with running in the dark) I couldn't see any arcing.
Plugs as black as they are says it's to rich . Also check your sparkplu wires looks like 5 and 7 are crossed
The plugs don't look very black to me and the firing order is right, 5 and 7 are were they belong. Must just look crossed on the video. Thanks for watching and trying to help.
Your fuel pressure looks a bit low,,, how about 5lbs at idle.. 12-15 lbs 3,000 rpm +. Plugs look 5-10 % Rich. Just my opinion. Does your barrel valve have a fuel return to the tank when idling ? When you want to check the plugs don’t let it idle, give it a good hard hit for a block or two and then shut it off before it comes down to idle. You will get a much better reading on your plugs.
Thanks for the tips man. I am still learning this injection stuff, so I appreciate the advice. need to get a different fuel pressure gauge, as this is a 0-100 psi unit, and kinda hard to see what it's actually reading. Are you saying it should be 5 lbs at idle and 12-15 at 3000+? I didn't mess with this thing much this year, but hope to get it on the track next summer. Thanks for watching.
Its better to push fuel throw the filter instead of sucking fuel throw the filter
Thanks David, that probably does make sense for most applications...
ignition
Definitely could be, but I still think it's fuel. I've been wrong before... Thanks!
Sounds like crossed plug wires to me .
Checked, double checked, and triple checked. That wasn't it. Thanks for the tip though!
Easy fix. Remove unneeded complexity and replace with factory intake and Rochester. Also remove all the 1/4 mile parts, put back to stock and then DRIVE it. Drag cars are a waste.
Tell me how you really feel Duke haha. I am kinda into drag cars so I'll probably leave all of the unneeded complexity and maybe even add more soon. Thanks for watching!
how much is that Vintage SBC HILLBORN Intake worth ?
Not sure hat it's worth, but it's bog block Chevy and priceless to me. Thanks for watching.