8 Stack Mechanical Fuel Injection 101 (Part 1) Butterfly Adjustments
Vložit
- čas přidán 10. 01. 2023
- Setup details of a Crower constant flow mechanical fuel injection. The basics to establish the proper initial setup, synchronization, linkage and more.
Digital Caliper can be found here: amzn.to/40VSB8U
Feeler gauge available here: amzn.to/3N0kE1a
If you find it useful, consider a donation at paypal.me/speedylink?country.... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thanks l wondered if Hillborn was still around just turned 70😊 have a 80 cu in Magnuson blower for my kaw 900 built ln 1977 god speed leard a lot stay cool
Just getting started with an 8 stack Hilborn. Really appreciate the video.
Thank you for taking the time and putting the effort in to make these videos.
Thank you for making this.
I have a big block chev unit, some printed material on setup, but your video is awesome
This is pure gold! Thank you for taking the time to make those printouts and explaining it so perfectly. Thank you!
Thanks for a wonderful learning experience. Now I just have to find a cheap 8 barrel fuel injection system....
BTW, they make adapters you can slide on your calipers to measure center to center on holes....
I’m glad it helped you. This stuff can get expensive quickly though. A good pump alone is around $600. Nozzles are pricey too if you have to buy new. Best of luck and cheers from Florida’s space coast!!!!
Great video!!! looking forward for the rest of the series. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Perfect video, use of calculation board the best. I remember early 70,s the throttle plate sticking issue. Great lesson, thank you.
Been looking for this kind of instructions for yrs. Needed a place to start for our sbc 2wd pulling truck. This knowledge is hard to find now. Thxs for sharing.
Great, I hope it helps you out a little. Would love to see what you're running sometime. Cheers!
Great video 👍
Awesome and informational video 😎👍🏼
Very nice, they have a great visual impact. I made a crossover manifold with eight Honda motorbike carbs fitted, and all attached to a Studebaker 289 V8. That was hard to synchronize, as each carb had it's own adjusting screw it took me six months to find a method that worked, but when I got it right it was so sweet.
😶😚Looking for word Starvin Marvin Thank you
Excellent little model to explain to us NUMBNUTS how important that distance is for the master and slave to open in unison. And the rubber band method answered my concerns about things shifting whilst tightening the slave (HA - not the "...secondary..."). CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
So cool!!! Thanks for the deep dive!
THIS IS AWESOME!!! I want hilbourne fuelie for my Nailhead..... good luck finding a set.... but dreams can happen!
you show up with mechanical fuelies your making a statement!!!!!
My friend Bob had a 34 Ford P/U with a Hillborn unit on a 312 Y block Ford in the B/A class. He also maintained a second unit on a C/G Ford coupe with a Y-block. Instead of a feeler gauge, he would cut strips of newspaper (about an inch wide) and use it as a feeler gauge. He preferred the newspaper over a feeler gauge due to it being compliant. Also, I believe Racing Parts and Machine Co. in Baltimore used this as well. Hope this is helpful to some.
That is absolutely true Mr. Bolt, I know a sprint car guy that did it the same way... Cheers!
Loved it I'm a retired auto tech
Thank you soooo much!! I'm setting up a early Hilborn on a sbc..I will buy you some beer, for sure!!
Great video ,nice step by step.Looking forward to more!
Thank you so much, great video, will use it for my BBC Hilborn system !
You are great, the way you explain it all so very clearly. I just bought a Hillborn setup for my sbc🙂. I have a FED nostalgia car its groining on. I have to replace all the hoses and go thru it, your spots will be very helpful. Thanks for your help, Vince
Thank you ever so much ! I really enjoy your teaching on this injection , I owe you a beer!
Randy, these videos, have helped me, to understand, how our Old School Enderle FI unit, will function. We ar installing, it on a 406 sbc, on our 67 Nova. Thanks BJ
I Loved my old Nova. Had a 69 when I was a young man... Thanks for the note.
Another item of interest is that by adjusting the angle of the throttle cable input to the arm on the master butterfly set, you can have the throttle open more gradually (per inch of pedal travel) at the beginning, middle, or end of the travel.
If the throttle attachment arm is at exactly 90 degrees to the throttle cable movement when at idle, then the throttle movement will be slowest per inch of initial pedal travel at the beginning of the throttle movement, and more degrees of opening per unit of travel afterwards.
If the throttle-link arm that attaches to the throttle cable is facing away from the throttle cable so there is a very low number of degrees of difference of angle between the throttle cable's plane of motion and the link arm's angle compared to the direction of movement, you will get a quicker-opening throttle right off idle.
In fact, by tailoring the throttle link arm's length you can decided on how much overall throttle pedal travel you have to work with, too. If you like a longer pedal stroke, you can use a longer arm. If you like more of an on-off switch, you can use a very short arm.
The throttle should move the most slowly relative to the throttle pedal motion in the parts of the throttle position that seem the most responsive.
If just cracking open the throttle results in the car trying to leap forth or immediately break traction, then maybe less throttle travel per unit of pedal motion for the initial throttle opening.
If the engine doesn't seem to feel much difference between 3/4 and full throttle, you may want to have the throttle moving more quickly in those last 22.5 degrees relative to the motion of the throttle cable/pedal.
This can be very finely tuned by having one throttle cable from the pedal moving a mechanism that has somewhat of a cam-shaped ramp on the mechanism to pull a secondary cable to activate the throttle blades, like old Nautilus machines had.
In short, if the engine experiences huge differences in behavior per degree of throttle opening at a certain throttle position, then that is one area you can manipulate things to make the same amount of pedal travel result in less change in butterfly angle, and there are a variety of ways to make what amounts to a mechanical "drive by wire" kind of feel.
Excellent. I have an old enderle system with an fairly small bore. Now i want to bust it out and use it. 20 years ago i bought an kinsler methanol barrel valve for it. Now i just need to build an old motor for it.
Just buy a 383 short block from Skip White Performance, get a set of AFR 220 heads and put your Enderle on it. You would have a wicked little powerhouse for sure... Cheers!
Have a big block Chevy with Edelbrock cross ram and making sure throttle position on both carbs is not easy. Hopefully it will perform okay on Dyno. Probably lose a bit of power compared to a new air gap but it looks and sounds killer.
Thank you for doing this. I run a Kinsler FI and there is very little good information.
Thanks for putting out great info on the Crower injector. I have one just like it. I'm building a SBC 377 and would like to know if you could give some cam specs for drag racing motor like this. Thanks Dan
I use a Herbert solid roller in my 377
Here are the specs_
Cam Grind Type:MECHANICAL ROLLER CAMS
Application: CHEVROLET V8 57-87 262-265-283-302-305-327-400
Block Size: SB
Engine Make: Chevrolet (Chevy)
# Of Cylinders: 8
Manufactured In Year: 57 - 87
Cubic Inch Size / Volume: 262-265-283-302-305-327-400
Additional Qualifier:
Brand Code: Herbert Performance Cams
Dur Int-Exh: 285/290
Dur @ .050 Int-Exh: 245/255
Lift 1.5 - 1.5 Int/Exh: 585/600
Lift 1.6 -1.6 Int/Exh:
Lift 1.7 -1.7 Int/Exh:
Lobe Center: 106
Valve Lash: .018-.020
RPM Range: 2500-6800
Description: Rough idle, goodmid rangetorque,10.5:1 advised, ovaltrack/bracket racing
Thanks for this - I have just purchased a historic CLEV powered sport sedan that once had 8-stack mech injection, but now has a Holley fitted - I intend to locate a suitable 8-stack - HA - hopefully it makes as much power with the mech 8-stack as the Holley. I have always viewed mech injection as a sort of 'black art' - HA - now is the time to learn that 'black art' for me. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
I have been watching your videos I'm nearing completion of my grandfather's 55 Chevy gasser " orange peel " back in the 70s they ran this injection system. I currently have a 383 stroker motor built with this on there along with everything I needed from alky digger. would love to be able to talk to you about questions I have.
Mike at Alkydigger is one of the best individuals you'll come across to help with MFI. I always wanted a 55 or 56 and would like to see what you have going on with it. Send me more info at speedy@digitaloverdrivesystems.com - Cheers
Great show thanks. Question,if I go lean change injectors or the bypass valve at the pump
@@user-mi8ru7qf6l Go watch part 5 of my series. Randy
I have a general question about the constant flow fuel injection. If I understand it correctly, fuel shoots to all 8 injectors at the same time. What happens to the fuel in a cylinder with the vav.e closed? Does the fuel puddle up on the intake valve until it opens? May be less relevant on a race care that runs at full throttle but how does the early gm system compensate since it has a constant feed into the octopus feeding a 8 injectors ?
Hi Henry. The time between intake cycles is so fast that there is no time for pooling. Watch this video to see how crazy the atomization is at higher rpms. czcams.com/video/RaN165eLgYU/video.html
Thanks and I hope it helps some....
Do they make an MFI that can utilize a basic throttle body similar to a traditional carburetor so all you need to adjust is the fuel curve? It seems it would be much easier to tune. It would also allow the use of a favorite intake manifold if injectors can be placed into the individual ports as needed. I want the benefit of port fuel injection but with a mechanical set-up like the MFI. Thank you for any info you may have on this.
You might want to look at Rons Fuel Injection. ronsfuel.com/flying_toilet.cfm Maybe this is what you are looking for. Thanks for your comment! Cheers
@@digitaloverdrivesystems Thank you for the recommendation! I did not know of their system. It sounds exactly like what I had hoped for. Now, to find out the bad news, how much it costs!
Pretty sure that is a Magnesium unit. I saw a Crower unit yesterday which WAS aluminum and was the dull silver color.
It is def aluminum but I know there were some made of magnesium. This one has a black anodize type of finish... Cheers!
When are you going to post the rest of the series
Hi Matt, you are the first to comment, and I was thinking no one really was that interested.... Has it been useful to you? I may take a crack at it this week if I have time.. Thanks, Randy in Florida
Hey randy I'm 60 long time. Drag racer I was going to run blown alcohol in my dragster but the economy that it is I love selling the whole top in this set up three months ago and I was going to get rid of the car. I just give up on it but I'm keeping it and actually coming down to Florida in about a week to buy an entire crawler alcohol injection, set up similar to yours for my big block Chevy I always like listen at other peoples take on the situation and ideas for a con. Are you on Facebook?
Crowler
@@mattrusyn9332 Yes, Crower, later bought up by Rons Racing and then pretty much discontinued. There are old Kinsler units as well that seemed to use the same manifold. They are a hassle to tune, but have the cool nostalga look. For a new setup, you might consider an Enderle Bird Catcher on a tunnel ram manifold. Easier to set up (so I'm told). Cheers!
Than you soo much, have a crower setup for a BBC, helps me soo much
The trouble with a feeler gauge, is that the " feel" is subjective. One guy says oooh that feels just right. Another says i dont know, feels a little loose for me. If ya know, ya know.
As long as the same dude is doing them all, its not a big deal. You are looking for "consistency "throughout measurements and your setup. Use your widebands to get em perfectly balanced. Cheers!
Angle finder would simplify adjustments I think.
Use whichever method you are comfortable with. Use a wide band monitor to get it dead nuts though. Watch my "part 7" to understand what I am trying to do. Cheers!
@@digitaloverdrivesystems
What you're doing and the way you're doing it is great. Explaining that is. I know you just grab your tools and get the job done. But you're explaining it to a couple hundred, and hopefully soon to be thousands. And doing a good job of it. Keep it up. We are eager to learn. I've never messed with mechanical fuel injection, at least not on gasoline automobiles. I've done single and multiple carbs, throttle body injection, tuned port, sequential, batch fired, but nothing like this. You have me intrigued. I've always thought it looked cool. Still do.
Correct me if I am missing something - but using a wide feeler gauge on a curved surface is surely not 100.0% accurate? Even if the feeler gauge bends to somewhat conform to the round shape - it will still offer some resistance and not be 100.0% accurate. Are there any feeler gauges for use on round areas? Or am I being a bit to 'exact', and this process of setting the leading edge of the butterfly with a feeler gauge is not an absolute critical process? Thanks.
Hey Elvis, You are correct, well, mostly. For taking measurements inside a radii, one would normally use a precision ground "gauge pin". The smallest gauge pin I have ever seen is 0.011". The 0.002" we are measuring would require a gauge pin the size of a human hair. For our project, the diameter of the bore is 2.5" in diameter, which is quite large considering our feeler gauge is only 0.002. The gauge is so thin and flexible it can easily and accurately be used in the bore. The gauge easily conforms the the large radii. I agree though, if we were measuring something thicker, like~ 0.011, we would definitely want to use the gauge pin instead for the reason you stated.... Cheers and thanks for following my content! Randy
Hello Randy. After I posted the message, my memory came back re some sort of pin used for such, and that probably the flat feeler gauge is so thin it may bend to conform to the round shape. I have decided on a KINSLER MFI and am about to order a system once we provide them the template of the head intake surface. I have started my MFI education and appreciate your videos - HA - at least with the MFI we can blow a fuse and the MFI will still be working - unlike the EFI systems we have on other engines. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.