What if Saruman Got The One Ring? | Tolkien Theory
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Saruman The Many Colored - Ralph Damiani
saruman - Dzmitry Yakhouski
Saruman - Kinko White
saruman with the palantir - kuliszu
lord of the rings the white council - White Council Game
Sméagol and the Ring - Anke Eißmann
Minas Tirith - Aronja Art
Rise of Isengard, Orthanc - LOTRO
Saruman - John Howe
Celebrimbor - Angus McBride
Saruman & Beren, Key of Orthanc - LOTRO
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The Eye of Sauron - John Howe
Saruman - Steve Airola
Saruman - Elrodimus Flash
Saruman - Catherine Karina Chmiel
the white council, saruman the white - mellorianj
First Wave - Olanda Fong-Surdenas
CavernsIsengard - John Howe
Saruman Palantir - Steve Airola
The Eye of Sauron - John Howe
Gandalf - Catherine Karina Chmiel
The Voice of Saruman - Alan Lee
The White Hand of Saruman - Ralph Damiani
Saruman - LOTRO
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Gandalf - Jenny Dolfen
Gwaihir the Windlord Bears Gandalf From Isengard - Ted Nasmith
Across Middle-earth - Amon Hen - Ralph Damiani
Uruk-hai - Paul Raymond Gregory
The Horn of Boromir - Matthew Stewart
Aragorn Watching Over Boromir's Body - Catherine Karina Chmiel
Pippin and Merry in Fangorn Forest - Anke Eißmann
Éomer - Soni Alcorn-Hender
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Edoras - Alan Lee
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Saruman - John Howe
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Arriving at Isengard - Erodimus Flash
Saruman - Elrodimus Flash
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Grond - John Howe
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Approaching Edoras - Ted Nasmith
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Jordan’s soundscape is pure genius! It was such an amazing experience to be involved! Thanks for sharing!
What about Tom Bombadil lol
@@CrookedRosePOD Tom Bombadil is in the Soundscape! played by Phil Dragash, some may recognize that name :) You'll hear him singing away in the distance :) and Goldberry singing :D
Jordan has done such an incredible job, I’ve been listening to the FOTR soundscape almost on a daily
Faramir meets Eowyn...got goosebumps from that.
*As much as he wanted to play Gandalf… Sir Christopher Lee was absolutely PERFECT to play Saruman. His commanding and stoic presence along with his cunning voice was just again…PERFECT casting.🙏🏼*
@Slywerk A pity, but don't forget that there is only so much you can put into a film. Alot has to be cut out sometimes and even then, things have to be mixed/changed for an audience rather than readers. Cinema's won't show films if they are too long, and DVD's can only hold so many hours.
What if it was Ian McKellen who acted SARUMAN. That's your next theory video
Christopher Lee was such a good actor he’d would have nailed Gandalf as well I reckon!
Absolutely. 100% agree 🤘
They had to build up the jealous feelings for Saruman towards Gandalf somehow to get him into character fully lol
He would buy an anti-tree defence around Isengard
Yeah, about 50 Phalanx CIWS should do it.
And lo did Saruman spray Round-Up upon the Ents of Fangorn.
@@GameAnGrogin this story, Saruman loses to Monsantos team of lawyers.
The first flame throwers on middle earth
@@GameAnGrog Lovely stuff. My dad had fun with that when they moved into their bungalow when I was a kid. He did the roundup and diesel trick, then rotavated the back garden 4 times, then dug it out 4 times, then cleared out all the scaffolding pins and other rubbish, until he found a live grenade from WW2 by the garage... We came home to a bomb disposal truck..
You should do a theory video on what if Sam insisted on bringing Bill the Pony the whole way? How far could they have realistically made it bringing a pony everywhere?
LMFAO surely the balrog would cower in fear against the trusted steed Bill
-We're going to Mordor alone, Bill!
-Of course you are, Mr Frodo and Mr Sam, and I'm coming with you!
*Wades into the water*
@@Gurrehable Maybe the water was only 4 feet deep
Finally someone's asking the important questions here.
He survived dude he's in the scaring of the shire.
I want a story-heavy, open world, LOTR game where these scenarios are possible based on player interactions and choices.
Tom be real, you would never leave the Old Forest. You would miss, Goldberry.
Have you looked into the Kingdoms of Arda mod for Mount and Blade 2? Still very much in development but it looks to become exactly what you're looking for.
I would encourage you to check out Divide and Conquer, a mod for Medieval II Total War. It’s a complete and total conversion mod that turns the entire game into Lord of the Rings in The Third Age, and one of my favorite moments is Isengard when you get the Ring and Saruman becomes the Lord of the Ring.
@Hidetaka Miyazaki hear tom's words and make the magic part of this world!
@@filiperiksson3259 It's just not the same. If you could play a first person game, fighting massive armies, going through Middle Earth, that would be incredible.
I wonder if at some point, Faramir and Eowyn's rebels would be approached by new allies. Two blue pilgrims from the east, leading an army of alikely thinking men, seeking any form of resistance that is willing to stand up against their former leader.
Mmm... no
Never thought of it until watching this but.....boromir trying to take the ring IS what SAVED the quest.
Else, this likely WOULD have been what happened.
Yep
That's spot-on, because until this point, the Fellowship members had been debating whether to go straight to Mordor or to go to Gondor first. Boromir trying to take the ring made Frodo realize that the only hope of winning was to destroy it as soon as possible, and that he had to do it alone. Luckily, Sam was smart enough to guess that Frodo would try to sneak off, and was able to catch up to him.
7:29
The description of the voice of Saruman perfectly shows how well cast Sir Christopher Lee was in the role. Man's voice was simply iconic.
"Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spake to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler's trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it."
Read the entire thing in his voice, can confirm.
@@OrgusDin I tried, but ended up just repeating, "To Isengard," over and bloody over!
Okay, now I want more of this Faramir & Eowyn alternate universe!
Sammeeee
The effort that went into this video & theory story is just next level. You’re the best man
Thanks so much! And thanks for watching and subscribing!
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Excellent theory. It sounds almost like Saruman obtaining the ring and taking over Middle Earth would be akin to Tolkien's worst industrialization nightmare
This has no place in The Lord of the Rings "Tolkien's worst industrialization nightmare" Why would you mix them together?
@andreasjensen3853 the desecration of nature for the sake of industrialisation is a very prominent motif in Lotr tho so it's not at all far-fetched
@@yw9113 Have you ever read what Tolkien wrote about people drawing parallels to the real world and his work? He hated it.
@andreasjensen3853 Tolkien might've disliked allegory but Lotr is quite obviously allegorical. Tolkien freely admitted so himself in his letters
And the industrialisation and deforestation of Isengard are in no subtle way depicted as evil
@@yw9113 Yeah obviously people can put more meaning into words than what they were meant to at the time they were written. "I think the text is a metaphor for bl bla bla" is straight out wrong if the writer mentions the fact that is NOT a metaphor for anything. He admitted that the LOTR trilogy was allegorical? Please give the source for that. In my copy of the first book it clearly states that it is not meant to give a secondary meaning.
He would have his telepathic ability greatly increased. In this way, he would control the Nazgûl (Unfinished Tales version), the Orcs, Trolls, Wargs and other evil creatures in the Misty Mountains.
If Sauron didn't attack soon (logistically impossible with the existence of Gondor), he would be outmatched and overthrown. I imagine that this way Saruman would have two strong domains in the end: Isengard and Mordor.
Sauron had armies arranged along a very long front. He had both the forces and the geography to send an army into Rohan from the north either from the Black Gate or from Dol Guldur.
@@istari0 You're right, this theory ignores the substantial armies of Dol Guldur.
Don't think he can overthrow sauron. Only the good can.
@@7yep4336dfgvvh Sauro and Saruman are both Maiars. More or less equal in power. There is no reason Saruman wouldn't be able to overthrow Sauron if he was wielding the One Ring.
Theoretically, I'm sure that Saruman would be able to turn his might to Subjugating or expelling the portion of Sauron's soul within the ring.@@groerhahn225
*Seeing Sir Christopher Lee with that kind of power boost would be absolutely EPIC!👏🏼*
Would near real life levels of Christopher Lee awesomeness
I would love to see you do a video answering “what if Saruman came down?” In the Voice of Saruman in the books, Gandalf offers him the chance to redeem himself and help them one last time. What might have happened had he repented and joined our heroes?
Well, Saruman would not have trashed the Shire, so the Hobbits would not be coming home to a big mess. As for the rest, since the Fellowship & Frodo won their battles without Saruman, I supposed having him on their side probably would not have created a much different outcome.
"He may have rendered great service"
He might have been instrumental at the Battle of Pellenor (sic?) Fields. His voice may have bolstered the defenders of Minas Tirith against the fear instilled by the Nazgûl. Or perhaps he could have laid enchantments upon mumaks or felbeasts. Many that would have died might have lived. It would not change the outcome of the war, but an extra wizard would have changed many lives.
My two cents.
@@lysander3262I lean more towards the "great service" consisting of Saruman telling them what he knew. His staff was broken, so I doubt he would have any instrumental role in the rest of the story. His soul may have been redeemed in the end though
@@chrissnyder8108Or he would have tried to betray them to get the ring and would have fucked up the final battle of the black Gate.
I was always under the impression that only Sauron can use the rings power properly, and that it is always seeking to reunite with him. I've always believed that any scenario that involves someone claiming the ring for themself is ultimately serving Sauron's end. It will inevitably return to him.
Supposedly according to Tolkein that doesn't apply if the ring is claimed by a Maia, who could claim the ring to such a degree that it results in the same outcome for Sauron as if the ring were destroyed. Though the evil in the ring would still dominate the Maia that claimed it.
@@theoncomingstorm7903 What did he specifically say? Because Saruman doesn't have the full power of a Maia
One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end. @@Jim-pq9pm
I think so as well, but this way the video is more interesting, portraying an unlikely yet still possible scenario.
@@Jim-pq9pmGandalf also doesn't have the full power yet Tolkien believed that it was more than possible scenario if he claims the One Ring
For some reason, I hate Saruman more than any other LOTR villain. I think what I hate the most about him is how he always puts himself above everybody else. I've always hated characters and people who do this. They really couldn't cast anyone else, but Christopher Lee (RIP). This man had a perfect signature look of superiority.
My issue with him is the blatant, unapologetic manipulation. I despise manipulators.
Cutting out Saruman's death scene was criminal. There's an interview with Christopher Lee where he corrects Peter Jackson on how he should react to being stabbed by Grima. The dude was one of a kind.
What if Gollum killed Sam and Frodo in their sleep?
What if Eomer took the ring?
What if Borimir took the ring?
What if Azog took the lonely mountain? And how would that effect the war if the ring?
What if the balrog killed the fellowship?
What if Saruman won helms deep?
What if the gaffer obtained possession of the Ring?
What if thranduil took the ring from bilbo when imprisoned in Mirkwood?
What if frodo lost the ring during the journey
What if there was second breakfast?
What if Isildur had destroyed the one ring ?
Short version: Saruman gets the Ring, and Middle-Earth becomes New Jersey :(
Saruman was one of the most interesting characters in the book, the Voice is especially a fascinating concept. Imagine going to Saruman and even from a distance you hear a musical voice and feel your heart lifted, you want to sit down and listen forever not turning into an automaton you still have your faculties but just completely charmed and beguiled. Imagine the power of that. The Sirens from Greek mythology would be an analogy.
I'm not sure how powerful he would be, but he would definitely be more powerful than he already was
"...and Debbie"
just kills me every time 😂😂
I love how this video is structured, laying groundwork from the cannon before turning to theory. The epilogue was fantastic
Oooh now this is a possibility I never considered! Loved your previous what if installments, theyre like an extra special event.
If you dont mind me throwing out my own suggestion: What if Isildur survived Gladden Fields? Meaning that his company still gets ambushed, sons killed and stll loses the ring, but doesnt get felled by arrows?
would much have been different really?
I wonder what would've happened if during the Nirnaeth Arnoenidad the evil men hadn't been evil and betrayed their allies, would the alliance have won and what wod the landscape look like afterward?
To be fair, losing the Ring is WHY he got felled by arrows. He put on the Ring and dove into the water to try to escape, but the Ring did what the Ring likes to do and abandoned him, leaving him exposed.
I always thought Saruman was never interested in using The Ring except to advance his knowledge in order to craft his own ring.
Wrong. If anything, Saruman's intentions were the exact opposite: he experimented with creating his own rings SOLELY BECAUSE he didn't possess (but very badly lusted after) the One Ring himself.
Although both beings were Maiar, Sauron was far, far greater & more powerful than Saruman; and Sauron's One Ring was far, far more powerful than anything Saruman could have ever made.
Yeah, plus the one ring adds to sarumans power. If he made his own ring he'd just gimp himself like Sauron did
@Gilliganfrog Tolkien himself said that if Saruman had been able to fill the gaps in his Ring-lore he would have been able to forge a Great Ring of his own and challenge the bearer of the One.
The one thing I note is that I suspect that the elves would flee middle earth when an enemy took the ring whether that enemy was Sauron or Sauruman.
While Lothlorien and Rinvendell may fall I suspect they would both be near empty before they fall. Perhaps a rearguard would remain but Elven kind would have fled to the havens.
Interesting choices for Saruman's actions! I would have never figured what would have happened if he had hidden that he had found the ring from Sauron! Thanks for this interesting "what if"! 😎🤘☮
I think it would have been possible for Saruman to get the ring earlier than he did. If Gandalf had decided to go to the shire instead of listening to Radagast, then Gandalf wouldn't have known of his treachery, and they might have taken the ring to Saruman willingly. That has always been one of my big "what ifs". Gandalf even said that if he'd known about the ring wraiths being abroad, he never would have listened to Radagast, he would have gone straight to the Shire and left right away, missing out on a lot of the members of the Fellowship along the way.
Really excellent stuff. Congrats on almost hitting 1 mil!!
I get so happy whenever I see this channel's notification ❤ keep the good work man, great job!!!
I absolutely LOVE how the battle of Isengard mirrors the battle of Pelennor fields, in which the losing forces defending a fortress are saved by an emerging army. Even better, it also mirrors the battle of Five Armies, in the sense that the giant eagles save the day. Just that it isn't eagles but fellbeasts, and the day isn't saved.
It's quite impressive how you manage to both stay as close to the lore and the spirit of Tolkien as possible while also coming up with an interesting scenario. Amazon Studios should have hired you as a writer, really.
The artists who lend their art to these videos are nothing short of incredible, Christopher Lee's likeness is completely spot on.
Great video!
but how would Gandalf free King Théoden from Saruman's control if Saruman possesses The One Ring and his power over King Théoden at its fullest ?
True !!!
Nice notice, so true bro
so true man , good comment
That epilogue gave me goosebumps! I need more of that!
Amazing video,huge fan. compelling and perfectly reasonable within the lore and universe, but that epilogue... you have to do a follow-up 'what if' about that, the whole idea of their meeting would make for a great tale!
Fantastic video as always! I absolutely adore these types of videos from you. I know you generally shy away from theory videos as you don’t want to become purely that, but I certainly wish you would do them a bit more often!
One quick question, is it really so simple to just “claim” the ring? How do you go about doing that when it’s current master is Sauron? Do you have to hold more power than Sauron and convince the ring you would be a better master? Okay sorry, that was more than one. I got carried away haha.
I love these theory videos! Just finished yet another read through of LOTR and wanted to add these to your list in case you didn’t have enough awesome content ideas in the pipeline 😅
- What if Sam takes the ring
- What if Faramir takes the ring
- What if Aragon takes the ring
- What if Boromir takes the ring
That epilogue was just perfect!
Have you ever done a video about the Silmarills and their making, powers and histories? That would be most welcome! Thanks for your vids, I'm a new subscriber of your videos and they are amazing!
Loving these theory videos. In the Balrog video you mention how it's possible the Balrog of Moria might act as an ally to Sauron and it would be awesome to see a theory video considering what effect a more active Balrog would have on middle earth.
Daaamn. So many times in this i found myself exclaiming aloud 'yes!' This is how I'd imagined it would go. Very compelling. Excellent work...
Awesome video. This theory took a dark turn, fitting considering that it's about Saruman. Keep up the great work
I absolutely love your What If‘s!
It would be very interesting to see a „What if Faramir got the One Ring“.
What do you think of the theory? Anything you'd change? Did I forget something? Let me know!
Wait, wouldn't Soldier's from Rivendel and lorien Form Alliance with the Rohirrims and Ents
Here is the deal: The One Ring will keep magic and prevent the Decay of Middle Earth, albeit in a quite cruel way. After all, the valar left the race of men to its own devices, almost alone.
How can Gandalf cure Theodan with Sauroman’s power amplified?
I loved tour theory and storytelling as always, Matt!
As for changes: I think after claiming the ring and defeating Gandalf, Saruman wouldn't send the Nazgul to Minas Tirith. He would instead let the war play out longer, in order to weaken all other major powers.
He would eventually side with Men, as you point out, but he would wait to see the results of the battle. If Gondor resisted, he would send an emissary (not the Nazgul, as they would be hidden or spying on the elves for now) and propose an "alliance" to defeat the remaining foes of Gondor, wich would actually enslave Denethor to his will, as he did before with Theoden.
If the invading armies won, in the other hand, he would go through the same plan over a longer period, pitching men against orcs. The rest would go just as you said.
I'd add that Fangorn would be absolutely put to ruins, and given to the Men under Saruman's control right away.
Also, I'm very curious on how the three remaining wizards would react to this scenario. Radagast would likely be the first to confront him, and lose.
@@electroskylightgaming4085 The Three Elven Rings were intended to help prevent decay, not the One. It's purpose was to allow Sauron to dominate the wearers of the other Rings of Power.
These are my favorite types of vids, excited to watch
dude you are amazing. Never stop with the content. Absolutely amazing
These type of videos are some of the best. would love to see the "Got the one ring" series expand. for example what if Elrond got the ring or Legolas
Loved the video, man. Such a great take! One of the most interesting "what if" moments on the whole timeline for me is what if the Balrogs would have been too late and shelob had consumed the silmarils and Morgoth. Instead of a main antagonist who is cunning and bides their time the free peoples would have had to face one that was more instinct and hunger-driven
Ungoliant, you mean.
I'm usually not fond of theory videos, but this one was really well done.
I love these what if videos. Keep it up!
Interesting theory but it’s missing one major player: Manwe.
Yes the Valar have an annoying tendency to not get involved, but if things get bad enough they have eventually used their might to defeat Morgoth’s forces in the past.
Sending the Istari was Plan A, as it ideally would allow the free peoples to resist Sauron on their own, and sending back a “powered up” Gandalf after he proved he would not be corrupted by it was further evidence of Manwe’s care for the survival of the free people’s. In the books, that was enough, but had the ring come up Sauron it Saruman, I fully believe the Valar would have intervened directly.
Nice theory, and hoping to see more ’what if’s’. And clearly in these ones about claming the ring, the True victor is ”The One”…
This was awesome. perfect theory all around. Can't wait for a battle between upgraded Gandalf and Saruman with the ring.
That epilogue is such a tease, now I want this alternate timeline to exist
wow! Insane thinking! You are truly amazing at this! So damn accurate and plausable that it sounds true to the lore hahah
Could you consider making a video of “What if the Witch King got the one ring” or what would happen if one Nazgûl got all 9 rings for themself? I’m really curious how that would play out if possible at all
as always, nicely done
Always great to ser a new entry in this series. What could the next one be? Aragon claiming the ring?
Great video! Please keep up the good work!
Ooo man I may have to get this soundscape and start my read through of the Serkis audiobooks over lol
Many others have done the same! Syncing is very easy and well worth it! :D
Wow. This theory is amazing. Good job :)
I don't think the process of mastering the ring would be so trivial as Saruman deciding to be its master. I think it would be a process that would take time to fight for its control. While Saruman is a powerful Wizard he is not as powerful as a Maia and is weakened compared to his Maia form.
great vid! it clearly shows alot of time and research put in!
On other hand, Saruman was preparing for centuries to claim the ring. If someone could master the ring in a short notice, I'd say it would be him.
@@Cerylion Its interesting to look how much Saruman prepared and how all of his preparations still lead to failure. I think Saruman is a great example of how preparation by your self in isolation isnt very useful. “No plan survives first contact with the enemy.” He has no real allies or friends to help him and does not truly test his plans against adversity. In his arrogance he sees his plans as flawless.
Saurman prepares an army and weakens Rohan, yet its clear both in the books he does not actually have good battle strategy (this is seen in lotr and expressly state by Hammond and scull and discussed in a PPP episode.
He sets himself up in a great position to find the ring, and yet fails to find it.
He is the leader of the white council yet Gandalf is really the one that ends up directing the councils actions.
While I agree that Saruman is one of the few who could master the ring, his knowledge is purely academic and not practical like Gandalf or Galadriel who wield rings of power and have been in the presence of the one.
That was a really fun theory! I especially liked the idea that Faramir and Eyown are at the head of a resistance against the new ring bearer!
I would love to see a theory video of what would have happened if Saruman had not turned to evil and had been present at the council of Elrond and helped the fellowship on their way to destroy the ring!
Keep on the good work!😊
Great video! One theory that I would love to see on your chanel is What if Gil-Galad survived to the third age. Basically what if he was alive in the events of Lord of the Rings. Love your chanel, love your work. Have a great day.
Your videos are badass dude, you're the bomb!
The soundscape sounds amazing
I like to think so! :D
This is amazing, and the epilogue gave me ABSOLUTE GOOSE BUMPS!!!
I like the continuation of this theory, most especially Faramir and Eowyn resistance against Saruman.
With the description we get from Tolkein you cited in this video, Christopher Lee was such a perfect choice for Saruman. RIP.
This is my favourite 'what if' so far
Sarauman becomes basically Sauron himself with similar motivations, but slightly different as well. Sauron wants to control people to benefit people according to his evil philosophy which leads to him being autocratic, Saruman wants to resources more than people, but he Saruman also wants to control people, but Saruman likely kills off many more people than Sauron in the end because he craves gold and jewels more.
Well, they are both (former) servants of Aulë, and suffer the same controllingly-ambitious weaknesses of character. Makes sense they'd take ME in relatively the same direction.
10 seconds in and I’m pumped for this one 👍🏼
dude, 10 seconds in he was still doing the ad read
Truly the best and glorious outcome.
*Looks at industrial combine with hundreds of forges*
Wow, just wow!!! 🤯 Watching this is like reading a "Choose Your Own Adventure," except way better because it's Tolkien and You!!! ❤⚔️
The idea of Middle Earth going through an industrial revolution is awesome.
Reminds me of that old Troika game, Arcanum.
One who breaks a thing to discover what it is has left the path of wisdom.
One of my favorite passages from fellowship of the rings, I think the chapter is called the council of Saruman
That epilogue was 🔥!!
There might be a one flaw in that theory. Since you already pointed out, that Saruman's voice would be sttonger with the Ring, it's really doubtfull for me, that Gandalf wpuld be able to break his control over Theoden. And though, Rohan would be in the control of Saruman a whole time.
Missed the What Ifs! Pretty sure that's how I discovered NotR
It's very fun to imagine.
Great job with this video.
Could you do a theory video on the would happen if the council of Elrond chose a different option then destroying the ring. Such as bringing it to Valinor or keeping it in Rivendell.
This is a very thoughtful imagining, I think. It makes sense that Saruman would seek to manipulate Denethor instead of trying to defeat Gondor militarily at that point - even in canon, he tries to persuade Theoden to make peace. The fact that his voice also brings together men of the east and west against the orcs - though obviously not for benign reasons - is an interesting twist. I can even see how Saruman's powers of persuasion, enhanced by the ring, might lead men of Gondor to turn on the elves; it wouldn't necessarily need to be about dominating their wills so much as exploiting the fact that they would probably see them as recluses who contributed nothing to their defense since the War of the Last Alliance. Those ties aren't as strong as they used to be, and you can see the seeds of a sentiment like that in Boromir at the Council of Elrond when he says it's only because of Gondor that their lands are kept safe.
Loved the epilogue, by the way. I was wondering how those two figured into things! It feels right.
Very cool video love this sort of stuff
Nice work dude thanks
Good story!Guaranteed to make you think about how the movies could have ended with a different outcome!
Very interesting! 👍
I don't read. In the films, my impression was the ring could go anywhere (except Mount Doom ofc) and it was ultimately advantageous for Sauron.
(I never thought Sauron had need to fear Saruman claiming the ring.)
Love the video
I am still holding out for "What If Bilbo Carried the Ring to Mordor?"
I'm surprised to not see some quotes from Tolkien on what would have happened if Saruman had gained the ring? Surely he mentioned that in some of his letters?
It's an interesting view that Saruman really could have "won". I think most people assume that Saruman was self-deceiving and that had he claimed the ring that Sauron wouldn't have had too much difficulty wresting it off him.
yeah, I find it doubtful. The fact that he fell without even having the Ring gives him as much a chance of mastering it as Gollum.
The Ring would play into his ego and let him borrow it's powers to convince him that he had mastered it (since no one in story knows that truly mastering the Ring would destroy Sauron instantly, the same as unmaking it, that was only explicitly confirmed in Tolkien's letters) while urging him to defeat Sauron and remove the threat to his power, at which point he'd essentially bring the Ring right to Sauron and it would betray him and return to it's true master.
Everyone in story just assumes that mastering the Ring would let them use it's powers of domination and they could overthrow Sauron and eventually become a dark lord themselves no matter how good intentioned they started out as.
Though Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel also acknowledge that it's more likely that the Ring would just pretend to help them right up till they unwittingly delivered it right back to Sauron for anyone foolish enough to even try to master it.
Thank you for your videos. They are right up my alley! However, one question still remains unanswered: What does Saruman do with his Uruk-hai army when he wants to drive out the Orcs and establish a human kingdom?
Good video as always NOTR. One area in Middle-Earth that interests me the most, and I'm not sure if you or Tolkien covered on it, is the area in the farther southeast known as the Dark Lands. I'm wondering....
Why is it called that? Is that another area ruled by another evil? Perhaps by Sauron or some other, greater, much darker force? It's something I began to ponder on the most.
Just to add, I always had this fan theory of what would happen if the Easterlings actually did not fight alongside the orcs nor for Sauron, but rather against them? Would Sauron and his forces even stand a chance against the race of men?
Here's an idea. What if Gollum didn't fall once he got the ring from Frodo, and instead escaped the mountain?
Or for that matter, if he simply stole it back at some point during the journey not like he didn't have ample chances.
I think Nazguls/Orcs would have caugh him on day or another, Gollum was too weak even with the One Ring
At 9:41 do we think that Gandalf would have had the strength to heal Theoden with Saruman wielding the power of the ring? Ah, maybe because he didn't claim it at that point..
No idea if you'll see a comment on a video this old, but I have been rereading LotR and came across a part that I think would make for an interesting "what if" theory. Near the end of Fellowship, Aragorn discusses what the Fellowship should do. He acknowledges Boromir will go to Minas Tirith, suggest Merry and Pippin should do the same, doesn't comment on Legolas, and volunteers the rest, including him, to go to Mordor with Frodo. What if the orc attack didn't happen, Boromir did not die, the hobbits didn't get captured, and the fellowship did end up splitting apart the way Aragorn suggested?
It's an interesting and hugely significant change to the story. The actions of Aragorn and his followers almost single handedly prevent both Rohan and Gondor from being destroyed. One also wonders what Gandalf would do had he not rejoined him.
Oh man I remeber my brother in law had a sweet surrond system when we all binged LoTRs it was great, I bet Soundscape is going to be a completely different experience!
Hearing it through a surround system is quite the experience!!
@@alongexpectedsoundscape I am excited to bare witness to the newest form of Tolkien appreciation/exaggerations, ALWAYS! 😂
P.S. Thank you to any and all Soundscape team.💯✌️🙌
This is amazing!!
The best - What if
You can also consider the possibility of Saruman finding the ring on the remains of Isidur in the Gladden Fields. Him slowly mastering the ring until the welders of the three become aware of him. Him leaving the council, then the council declaring war on Saruman when he refuses to destroy the ring.
Thanks! Could You Do More "What If" Videos In The Future?
Absolutely! It has been FAR too long since I did a theory video and I'll definitely not wait so long for the next! Thanks for the Super!
I love this theory as I’m a big fan of Saruman and Isengard.
Nice theory. I would differ in one point: A powerful ring bearer like Saruman would not need to come in proximity to the Nazgul. They would serve him the instance he claims the Ring. Regardless of where they are at the time.
Great video, is it possible to make a what if Elrond takes the ring pleaseee ?