I'm happy this happened. It's what separates the Frankels of the world from the American Pharoahs. He faced adversity, a poorly timed ride and he dealt with it. 14/14. #TheGreatest
I enjoy listening to WC's comments. He certainly has a keen eye for the way a horse has travelled in a race. He was all over Black Caviar's UK run and acknowledged that she was short in her action from the 600m and struggling to produce her best.
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar you need to look at the horses they've beaten. Frankel has beaten Excelebration (1x Gp1 winner), Immortal Voice (1x Gp1), Dick Turpin (1x Gp1), Poet's Voice (1x Gp1), Canford Cliffs (5x Gp1), Rio de la Plata (1x Gp1), Zoffany (1x Gp1), Dream Ahead (5x Gp1), Wootton Bassett (2x Gp1), Pathfork (1x Gp1), Casamento (1x Gp1), Roderic O'Connor (2x Gp1), Treasure Beach (1x Gp1), Nathaniel (1x Gp1) I don't know if Black Caviar can match that.
he tired because the jockey let him go too soon anyone with a brain can see that and he still won, the best horse you will ever see, pure quality todays run from st nicholas abbey confirmed frankels superiority also soft falling rain is a horse to follow :)
it cracks me up that he has already set such a high standard that he wins a grade 1 race by only a length and people are trying to discredit him.its amazing when zenyatta was winning all her races all the talk was it doesnt matter by how much you win by.i agree that he went too soon but he still won and doesnt that tell you something that this horse still prevails when hes not ridden well.this horse will not lose and i dont care who he lines up against.cecil will keep improving him.
@TheAmanda154 yep, when you put it like that it really is incredible what he has done to some very strong opposition. You know your racing really well, glad you're enjoying Frankel so much. When he exploded at about 1 1/2f to go on Wed it was such an exciting moment to realise that you're watching something so exceptional. I suddenly realised I was shouting out like a madman! I find myself just counting down the days to his next run!
FRANKEL YOU BEAUTY!!!! That was fantastic!!!!!! Everyone please cut the bickering and just enjoy this brilliant racehorse. What he has just done to Canford is mind-blowing. Listen to Sir Henry "this is the best horse I have ever seen." !!!! Trust me, this animal could easily get 10f and I still think he'd be devastating over 12f. If you disagree, would you want to be a bookie laying him?He just cruised that today, that was AWESOME.
@SoulSurvivor79 fair play to you mate, thanks for replying. It's really interesting to hear everyone's opinions because they are so varied and we all think we are right, of course! I guess the great thing is that this horse really has got everyone talking and that's fantastic for racing. I really don't think the Frankel team are trying to duck anyone, it seems to me they have a 2 phase plan for him ie it'll just be the mile this year and they'll go further next year. Some great races coming up!
The acceleration on Frankel to catch the pacemaker rerouted and make that gap up and then put that gap infront of him....0.50 he starts to sprint off!!! Amazing horse
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar, I have an alternative question: who would win out of Frankel, Black Caviar and the mighty Red Rum? Surely Red Rum would beat them both very easily over 7,200 metres and 30 fences - therefore I think he's the greater of the three. What's my point? Black Caviar is the best sprinter in the world; Frankel is the best miler in the world. Leave it at that until one of them ventures into the domain of the other. What an incredibly exciting era!
@TheAmanda154 great to have you back, Amanda! There have been some dodgy comments posted in your absence, I'm sure the standard will soon be on the way up.
@schardy80 I would agree with you. BC is a sprinter. Frankel is by a derby winner and will likely excel at 10F and has excelled at 8F. They are fundamentally different types. Both unbeaten both with a string of group 1 wins. Both excellent.
Who is quite high up in Timeform. OFC with timeform we have + and p to factor in those types of performances where a substantial improvement is possible, Black Caviar was 135+ at one point but got a straight 136 for her Lightening win. I know it's not a science, but it's as close as we can get if people know how to use them properly.
Really hope you're right - I'd hate Frankel to run out of gas and get pipped, because when he does tire, he slows right up. Incidentally, one of the pleasures of this video is listening to Willie Carson's comments. He really does understand horses - not to say the art of the jockey.
Ray Ray Not true, look from about 0:33 seconds, qually deliberately starts lengthening him out, and before that he wasn't restraining Frankel as usual, this was Queally or someone in the team saying "let him go show how good he is" and they got stung (almost) for it. He taking him off the bridal at 33 seconds. He didn't come off of it himself.
I know all of them were before his time was at the Kentucky Derby when Barbaro won it in 2006 and I was as Saratoga when Rachel won the Wood and youtube cut half of your comment up so I didn't see that he was British sorry :) He is the best British horse yes by far but you can't say in the world to say that makes you sound desperate. and he is not the best horse ever, Secretariat was and he would have trounced Frankel if they had raced together. I respect you, the horse
Apologies for calling your knowledge limited, I was in the wrong there. Because of the black caviar phenomena in AUS it's hard to tell who is a real racing fan and who is a black caviar bandwagon fan. I was quite clearly wide of the mark in my original assessment of which one of those groups you came from. So I'm sorry for that. With your point about the Ratings, I know it isn't an exact science, but used properly they are a fantastic guide. Graham Cunningham is the best tipster here...
I freely admit that I am not well-versed on the European horseracing circuit, beyond the "big name" races. I just know that, historically, there aren't very many "foreign" thoroughbreds that make a big splash here in the USA. Goldikova comes to mind. I loved "Gorgeous" George Washington, but we all know about his tragedy on a sloppy dirt track in the Breeder's Cup. Breeding is another story. So many great American-bred champions from the early 20th century came from European roots.
Just yanking your chain Josh. Frankel looked awesome in that last win. Peter Moody ( trainer of Blk Cav) said it was the most awesome thing he'd seen on a racecourse. I would love to see Frankel tested against a few of the best 2000m horses Cirres d Aigles and other consistent performers (Snow Fairy?) and see if he can gap those types. I can see you're an informed race fan and Frankel is something to get excited about. We had a horse here inthe 80's Kingston Town that I rate as high as any. It
Tom Queally was struggling to pull Frankel up at the end. That horse wasn't tired, When a horse is that good and everything comes so easy to them they idle. I hope he meets Canford Cliffs so CC can eyeball Frankel 2 furlongs out, Queally presses the hyperdrive button and its See ya Canford Cliffs...
Watch them going round the bend. Frankel is cruising into the lead while all of the others are struggling to do anything but lose length after length. He won this race after 4 furlongs through forcing the opposition to push too soon and so they didn't have enough energy to catch him. Take out Zoffany and this was an easy win over Exelebration. If you look at 3 furlongs, Zoffany is the only horse who isn't tying to win the race. The others did and hence couldn't get near him. That = 3/4 length.
What I do find funny is the Frankel/ Black Caviar debate has ended and I've seen this type of debate crop up more and more.Testament to the horse we currently have I think.
the price money is more in the BC actually,but besides that ,he is a great horse but he never ran in a derby because he would stay the extra 2f. but a great horse at his dist.
@jockney7 Hay List , Foxwedge, Ortensia , Southern Speed , Buffering , Moonlight Cloud , Society Rock , that's a list of what she's beaten , Hay List the 2nd best sprinter in the world , Ortensia a G1 winner in your country , Foxwedge a G1 winner and was in the top 15 in the world before being retired , Southern Speed a caufield cup winner , Buffering queensland horse of the year , Moonlight cloud and Society rock both G1 winners , yeah she's faced not many hasn't she ? ;)
I think Frankel will put in an electric performance when he meets Canford. All Queally has to do is sit tight on him. His stride will beat Canford Cliffs as long as Tom Queally keeps his cool. Canford loves to track you until the final furlong and then push in front of you. But if Frankel is held onto until 2f out and then asked to go, Canford won't quite have the pace to match that long stride. Wish Mick Kinane was riding him.
That is fair enough mate. But the two Euros you mentioned were predominantly milers! What I will say is though, the very best of our lot rarely travel over too America for the breeders cup (unless they are O'Brien Trained) and even then a lot of the time they are entered in the wrong race!. The biggest mistake was putting Galileo on dirt. But Frankel is the real deal, Goldikova would struggle to get within 6 of him and he beat St Nicholas Abbey by 7 lengths, barely coming off the bridle at 1m1/4
@ASupremeOwl I agree with you in part: Frankel is a freak. An incredible racing machine and an absolute privilege for those who've been fortunate enough to have seen him in the flesh. The 2000 Guineas is one of my all time fav races. Anyone suggesting BC could beat Frankel over a (UK) mile is being ambitious and a tad disrespectful, but let me assure you the only thing that will put to bed in a few months will be those second rate European sprinters of yours!
@TheAmanda154 spot on, Amanda. I know they say it takes all sorts but some of the opinions expressed here are difficult to fathom. For me, to understand the greatness of an animal like Frankel, all you need is a pair of fully functional eyes. No great intelligence or insight, just the ability to see. Yet the number of people who deny the flaming obvious is extraordinary. Sometimes it gets you down, but then I just think of the next race and the prospect of unlimited and joyous bragging rights.
an even better fact is Cityscape has never run a mile in the UK in under 1.39 yet he goes to Hong Kong and comes 0.5L second to Able One in a race run in under 1.34. Does that mean Cityscape is a far better horse than Frankel?
It's hard to line up horses in the era pre shuttle stallions and overseas travel.I'm sure I've seen sprinters as good as Black Caviar for example but they never had the chance to go os. Her races have been hand picked and she hasn't been asked to try a mile for fear of blemishing her unbeaten record. Having said that I've never heard of a non- quarter horse running a sub 10 second 200m!
continued... Hardly anywhere else on the world runs on. American horses perform criminally bad abroad, whereas our horses are dominant. So all of a sudden the track records come into question, because the standard of American racing comes into question, Frankel is undoubtedly the best horse in the world at the moment. I've never seen sec run live so I can't stack up the form of other horses. But I've never once stated Frankel was better. He is however yet to be beaten, so I don't know his limits
No he beat the 2nd best horse in the world over 10 furlongs. and a breeders cup turf winner by 7 lengths over an extended 10 furlongs. He was arguably a better 10 furlong horse than a miler. And he was a pretty good miler as it was. I usually agree with what you have to say but on this I don't . For a couple of reasons, the first being horse racing doesn't revolve around around the USA, the second being in Europe (where he raced) a mile is a classic distance. It is of great importance here.
Again you love Zenyatta. N1. Never went outside CA. 2. Never ran 12f. 3.She didn't even run in g1 company at 3 never mind stepping up in trip. 4. This one is about Frankel, he has won half of his races without a acemaker. But ask yourself what is a pacemaker there for? For a strong gallop. Why would a miler need a strong gallop at 10f? Surely this would hinder a horse that doesn't get the trip, especially on soft heavy ground against the likes of CDA. Yet he cruised up on the bridle and won easy
@LCSimberto have people actually seen black caviar race? ive watched all of frankel's races, yes the horse has an amazing turn of speed but he is basically at full throttle for the final sprint every race, No one has ever seen black caviar at full throttle yet she wins every race going away from her opposition, Black Caviar is the best sprinter the world has ever seen yet she stepped up to 1400m for the 1st time and smashed them on the weekend. Only the absolute freak of natures can do that.
How have I implied that? I've stated the obvious. The USA is going through a very tough time in racing and he would have been beating weaker horses over there than over here. You are right, many do go over, but we seldom send our Creme de la creme. STS, Zarkava, Frankel, Danedream all stayed in Europe. Cheltenham is awesome. Best week of the year. Still on a downer from it being over.
Frankel's next race ( and final race of this season ) will be the all aged mile Group QEII at Ascot - where he will clash with Canford Cliffs again. So You Think couldn't blow smoke up Frankel's arse.
@SoulSurvivor79 Thanks mate, I'm not one to boast like that but I temporarily lost my cool at a brain dead contributor yanking my chain. Couldn't believe Nathaniel's price, his costly supplementation for the race told me everything I needed to know. I've never been overly impressed with St. Nicholas Abbey and the onIy one I was worried about was poor Rewilding. I don't claim any kudos for backing Frankel, he's the best horse I've ever seen (and Sir Henry!) Take it easy buddy
My opinion, This horse is goin to beat CC.. Frankel looks the real deal! His stride, his turn of foot, when hes asked hes gone! He shattered every horse put in front of him! Now i know he hasn't met a CC's which i am a big fan of but Frankel is goin to get better nd better! This is the first race where he was really settled even at da start and given a more positive ride i honestly think Canford cliffs cant beat him! Ive won alot of money off CC but i will be backing against him this time!
Just finished watching the Breeder's Cup races today. Too bad Frankel wasn't in one of them. Would love to see how he would do over here. O'Brien did not have a good day today.
@SvendBosanvovski Sir Henry Cecil as said ' He will get 10 furlongs standing on his head ' The horse is a freak, Could the same be said about Black Caviar could she win a Gr1 over a mile? Or is she all speed and 6f is her only real distance? This is why Frankel is so highly rated he is so versatile in terms of distance and ground. And why I made the point about ratings. 130 over 6 furlongs, Frankel would laugh at that...
@watchinginawe Amanda, can I pick your brains about a couple of horses who I think are underrated & rarely get mentioned in the list of 'greats.' I have a real soft spot for Pebbles & loved it when 'England's super filly wins the Breeders Cup!' But the performance that really stands out for me was the 1985 Champion Stakes when she absolutely decimated a class field. The other horse I feel is underrated is Generous, who was a devastating winner of the Derby and King George. How did you rate them?
Pebbles is/was my fav I even got a pic with her at dalham Hall in 89, I rem she was 1st filly to win eclipse , destroyed them all in the champion then routed them in breeders Cup! She was tough and her turn of foot was deadly.
i agree,might be a longtime b4 you see one like him again. but their should be no talk of comparisons to horses who ran over 1 1/2 and vise versa. his connections never though he could see out 1 1/2 and his career has shown that. just what i think.
@CannyBeSerious milers in Europe beside Frankel by 3 and 7 1/2 lengths. Hes seen off a future Epsom Derby runner up/ Irish Derby winner, A future King George winner, An Irish 2000 Guineas winner, A July Cup/Prix De La Foret/Haydock Sprint cup winner, A Prix De La Moulin, Prix De Le Jacque Marois winner in one season with utter ease. His form is rock solid. Black Caviar races the same old horses everytime she steps on a track. Haylist, Star Witness Zzzzzz...
@TheAmanda154 Isn't it weird Amanda how some people don't get it? Sometimes you need to read between the lines. What blew me away about the 2000G was that they decided to run in that fashion. Sir Henry was telling the world " I have got an absolute monster here and I'm going to show you all what he can do." To plan to win like that you must know you're not only the best, but you're the best by a huge margin, in a championship race. His demolition of CC yesterday was even more breathtaking.
feel free to comment, i have no hatred of American racing and all the horses you have mentioned are champions and won their races fairly, i have only pointed the finger at 1 horse who i have seen in pictures as a yearling and as he progressed through his career and watched the videos and there is something not quite right about him, watch the end of his triple crown wins, there is no easing down at the end, its natural for a horse to ease before the line, maybe not if hes not feeling anything
@TheAmanda154 Grovel, grovel, grovel. You were right. I was wrong. Hope you won't demand that I walk from Goodwood to Newmarket in a pink and green "I Heart Frankel" shirt.
Is Workforce broke records in his 3 year old season. I don't think he will ever go down as one of the all time greats so I tend to take record times with a pinch of salt. I don't think anyone has ever said Frankel is the greatest of all time, but Timeform didn't rate sec as they only started giving American horses ratings in 2000 so Frankel was bound to be top without sec there. Having said that we don't know frankels limits, this was obviously an off day, so to take it into isolation is unfair.
@TheAmanda154 Ah well, the supporters of other horses are going to get to experience the "Hughes/Hannon headscratching and I don't understand what happened there" experience!
Sorry, I actually meant British AND Irish racing. I like how you can base that on one festival. Forgot to say the best steeplechaser in the world before he retired is Kauto Star and the best one in training now is Sprinter Sacre. Both French breds but trained in England. But the champion jockey of NH over the last 17 years is AP McCoy (Irish). The champion trainer of the last 7 years is Paul Nicholls (British). So do you really wanna continue this?
The greatest impediment to any horse performing to expectations is the little guy sitting on its back! Pilot error gets many a good horse beaten. Remember the crime of Zenyatta's last race?
mtoto was a big horse with a long stride watch the videos of mtoto and you will see? frankel isnt in same class its hard too judge a horse from different generations we could agree that they was the best of there time.
Frankel first, Zoffany second, Excelebration third and lovely speedy Dream Ahead there too ! It is like a list of today`s exciting young stallions !Was Zoffany champion first season sire last year ?? I know he had a sensational Royal Ascot !Was not Frankel`s best race and the ride was indifferent, to say the least , but he still won the other 13 races by a total of 74 lengths on turf and that is a modern day record ! If you saw that figure, you could be mistaken for thinking he was a 2 mile or Ascot Gold Cup type.
i still say this wasnt queallys finest hour in the saddle and it was only frankels class that saved his skin. however he more than made up for it in the susses where frankel absolutely destroyed canford cliffs fair and square.
@beejay62 Since Black Caviar is a sprinter then I'd have thought her sectional times would be quicker than a horse who as been running over a mile. Black Caviar couldn't keep that pace for a full mile hence the reason she is a sprinter. A mile would stretch her to the maximum I feel. I would love to see Frankel and Black Caviar race over 7f. Surely the fairest distance?
he'll be even better over 10f, Quealy messed up in this race, he pushed the button 4f out before they had got to the bend, if you watch the horse in front moving over to the rail Tom rushes Frankel forward to go through the gap and just kept going instead of steadying him and kicking on in the straight
@SvendBosanvovski Sorry the reason Frankel is 'rated' the best in the world... 6f, 7f, 8f, 10f do not look to be a problem for Frankel. Im sure he would have been Champion Sprinter and equalled BC's rating of 130 over 6f had he stepped down to that trip, He was running 11 second furlongs in the Guineas for the first 5 furlongs on the Rowley mile which is probably the toughest mile straight in the world. Hes won over 7 furlongs, And was rated the best in the world over 8 furlongs and like...
@raff23 he is slowly winding up the pace for 5f and then still have her turn of foot towards the back end of a 8f race in the UK? I doubt that very much and if she could i think we would all hold our hands up but it is just pie in the sky at the moment. We don't even know if she can get a fast paced 1400m let alone a stiff 8f at Ascot.
The reality is that the stable team just dont know how to ride this horse or the tactics to use!.... he is such a freak animal with an enormous turn of foot and stamina ,and more importantly, the alpha male desire to out perform his rivals in the pack order !! ...let him run free or hold him up or whatever ??.. Frankel isnt your average good quality thoroughbred ...he is something unique ..just enjoy the moment ..a horse like him only comes along once in a lifetime!
I have only seen this race and frankly he would be hard pressed to go further than the mile.against class horses in something like the BC. A very very good racehorse but he has raced only up to a mile and has always had the benefit of bunnies from the same stable. Personally speaking if I was the owner of a horse in that stable I wouldnt want it placed against Frankel.
@LCSimberto She hasn't won a 1 mile classic has she! She is without any doubts the worlds best sprinter.Frankel is not a sprinter but is without doubt the worlds best miler. Both are the best at what they do but they are completely different animals and both are ridden completely different.Also don't talk about the amount of races they have had as Black Caviar has been racing for longer than Frankel.Frankel is 9 & 0 if he was the same age by average his record would be better lol
We will never know how fast Sea the Stars actually was. He beat listed horses the same way he beat multiple group 1 winners! So how high he could actually raise the bar is a mystery. What I would say is he had more in the tank in all of his races. Most horses wouldn't have been able to do what he did that season but he could because I don't think he was ever stretched. He was just one of them that always did what was required and no more. What I would say with regard to records...
@LCSimberto This is the only race of Frankel's that was ever close to a defeat...and this had nothing to do with the horse, but more to do with an absolutely horrendous ride by Tom Queally. The fact that Frankel held on to win this race speaks volumes about this animal. Queally setting him down at the 1/2 mile pole is ludicrous...if he had waited to push the button at a reasonable time (2, 2 1/2 furlongs or so), this too would have been a laugher.
He shouldn't have sent Excel and St Nic there mate. Excel ran on heavy going just 2 weeks ago. St Nic has ran 8 times this season winning once and again, his last run was on heavy. Having said that, in those conditions Excel fresh wouldn't have beaten WD, but it would have been closer. AO'B needs to look after his horses rather than running them into the ground.
@thepoacher2010 i totally agree with your last comment. there is no doubt the guineas was a brilliant performance but it was a freak, one off performance. frankel was easily head and shoulders above the rest of the guineas field but apart from him, you couldnt take the form at 100% face value. back to queally and the guy is just an average jockey. when you compare him to cecils previous stable jocks its like comparing a robin reliant to a ferrari
The Guineas was a freak result, as many of the fancied horses were not ridden out in the last 3 furlongs. If you think that the form was reliable, then you are asking us to believe that Dubawi Gold is around 60lbs superior to Roderic O'Connor. Frankel is an exceptional horse, but his rating is too high by 5 or 6 lbs. The Sussex is a very close call, but I slightly favour CC. We'll all know by this time next week.
He's the best horse anywhere since the 70's. The Zenyattas, Rachels, etc... wouldn't get him off the bridle. He was 10lbs clear of the 2nd best horse in the world officially and about 13lbs clear of the best American horse. That;s nearly a stone. Zenyatta wouldn't be in the top 10 euro horses since 2000 if she was European.
Consider Excelebration would be a 5 time group 1 winner without Frankel, and Canford Cliffs was a 5 time group 1 winner (Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova). Now if you consider that Frankel has been running in two extremely wet summers it's obviously going to be difficult for him to break records when he hasn't been on fast ground once. Work Force holds the derby record. Does that mean he's the best derby runner ever? No does it bollocks. Let us not forget America runs on a surface that...
@schardy80 its just not geographically likely. No way will Cecil allow his horse travel to Australia. its hard enough to get Henry to go to France. Equally BC if she ever comes to Europe will be aimed at the 6 furlong race at Royal Ascot and the July Cup. The match up just won't happen.
I'm happy this happened. It's what separates the Frankels of the world from the American Pharoahs. He faced adversity, a poorly timed ride and he dealt with it. 14/14. #TheGreatest
One of the worst rides you'll ever see by Queally and only Frankel could have still gone on to win
I enjoy listening to WC's comments. He certainly has a keen eye for the way a horse has travelled in a race. He was all over Black Caviar's UK run and acknowledged that she was short in her action from the 600m and struggling to produce her best.
Frankel is a freak. You will not see a better miler. UNBELIEVABLE this horse...
Those side angles from 3:44 are mindblowing! The raw powerrrr is phenomenal! XD
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar you need to look at the horses they've beaten.
Frankel has beaten Excelebration (1x Gp1 winner), Immortal Voice (1x Gp1), Dick Turpin (1x Gp1), Poet's Voice (1x Gp1), Canford Cliffs (5x Gp1), Rio de la Plata (1x Gp1), Zoffany (1x Gp1), Dream Ahead (5x Gp1), Wootton Bassett (2x Gp1), Pathfork (1x Gp1), Casamento (1x Gp1), Roderic O'Connor (2x Gp1), Treasure Beach (1x Gp1), Nathaniel (1x Gp1)
I don't know if Black Caviar can match that.
he tired because the jockey let him go too soon anyone with a brain can see that and he still won, the best horse you will ever see, pure quality todays run from st nicholas abbey confirmed frankels superiority also soft falling rain is a horse to follow :)
it cracks me up that he has already set such a high standard that he wins a grade 1 race by only a length and people are trying to discredit him.its amazing when zenyatta was winning all her races all the talk was it doesnt matter by how much you win by.i agree that he went too soon but he still won and doesnt that tell you something that this horse still prevails when hes not ridden well.this horse will not lose and i dont care who he lines up against.cecil will keep improving him.
I agree after watching the rest of his races. A great horse.
@TheAmanda154 yep, when you put it like that it really is incredible what he has done to some very strong opposition. You know your racing really well, glad you're enjoying Frankel so much. When he exploded at about 1 1/2f to go on Wed it was such an exciting moment to realise that you're watching something so exceptional. I suddenly realised I was shouting out like a madman! I find myself just counting down the days to his next run!
FRANKEL YOU BEAUTY!!!! That was fantastic!!!!!! Everyone please cut the bickering and just enjoy this brilliant racehorse. What he has just done to Canford is mind-blowing. Listen to Sir Henry "this is the best horse I have ever seen." !!!! Trust me, this animal could easily get 10f and I still think he'd be devastating over 12f. If you disagree, would you want to be a bookie laying him?He just cruised that today, that was AWESOME.
Look what Frankel as done since ridden correctly. The best Europe as ever seen...
@SoulSurvivor79 fair play to you mate, thanks for replying. It's really interesting to hear everyone's opinions because they are so varied and we all think we are right, of course! I guess the great thing is that this horse really has got everyone talking and that's fantastic for racing. I really don't think the Frankel team are trying to duck anyone, it seems to me they have a 2 phase plan for him ie it'll just be the mile this year and they'll go further next year. Some great races coming up!
The acceleration on Frankel to catch the pacemaker rerouted and make that gap up and then put that gap infront of him....0.50 he starts to sprint off!!! Amazing horse
Greatest horse ever
To those folk trying to compare Frankel and Black Caviar, I have an alternative question: who would win out of Frankel, Black Caviar and the mighty Red Rum? Surely Red Rum would beat them both very easily over 7,200 metres and 30 fences - therefore I think he's the greater of the three.
What's my point? Black Caviar is the best sprinter in the world; Frankel is the best miler in the world. Leave it at that until one of them ventures into the domain of the other. What an incredibly exciting era!
it isnt a sudden think, its something we;ve always believed
British horse racing is the best in the world.
@TheAmanda154 great to have you back, Amanda! There have been some dodgy comments posted in your absence, I'm sure the standard will soon be on the way up.
Absolutely adore this horse. The jockey needs to go though after this horrible ride. I am thankful that Frankel held on.
well said !
@schardy80 I would agree with you. BC is a sprinter. Frankel is by a derby winner and will likely excel at 10F and has excelled at 8F. They are fundamentally different types. Both unbeaten both with a string of group 1 wins. Both excellent.
Who is quite high up in Timeform. OFC with timeform we have + and p to factor in those types of performances where a substantial improvement is possible, Black Caviar was 135+ at one point but got a straight 136 for her Lightening win. I know it's not a science, but it's as close as we can get if people know how to use them properly.
Different race. He was in a different class to the rest of them.
Really hope you're right - I'd hate Frankel to run out of gas and get pipped, because when he does tire, he slows right up. Incidentally, one of the pleasures of this video is listening to Willie Carson's comments. He really does understand horses - not to say the art of the jockey.
Frankel bolted, queally never intended to go so early, but queally is intelligent and never tried fighting the horse!
A bit of education for you all!
Ray Ray Not true, look from about 0:33 seconds, qually deliberately starts lengthening him out, and before that he wasn't restraining Frankel as usual, this was Queally or someone in the team saying "let him go show how good he is" and they got stung (almost) for it. He taking him off the bridal at 33 seconds. He didn't come off of it himself.
yeah these was 100% jockey error, but they got away with it.
Um, no, but you can fuck off with your bullshit.
You've just completely blown the rest of the world away with your well thought out play on words. You must be in Mensa or something? Surely.
I know all of them were before his time was at the Kentucky Derby when Barbaro won it in 2006 and I was as Saratoga when Rachel won the Wood and youtube cut half of your comment up so I didn't see that he was British sorry :) He is the best British horse yes by far but you can't say in the world to say that makes you sound desperate. and he is not the best horse ever, Secretariat was and he would have trounced Frankel if they had raced together. I respect you, the horse
Apologies for calling your knowledge limited, I was in the wrong there. Because of the black caviar phenomena in AUS it's hard to tell who is a real racing fan and who is a black caviar bandwagon fan. I was quite clearly wide of the mark in my original assessment of which one of those groups you came from. So I'm sorry for that. With your point about the Ratings, I know it isn't an exact science, but used properly they are a fantastic guide. Graham Cunningham is the best tipster here...
Cool story bro, needs more Frankels.
I freely admit that I am not well-versed on the European horseracing circuit, beyond the "big name" races. I just know that, historically, there aren't very many "foreign" thoroughbreds that make a big splash here in the USA. Goldikova comes to mind. I loved "Gorgeous" George Washington, but we all know about his tragedy on a sloppy dirt track in the Breeder's Cup.
Breeding is another story. So many great American-bred champions from the early 20th century came from European roots.
Just yanking your chain Josh. Frankel looked awesome in that last win. Peter Moody ( trainer of Blk Cav) said it was the most awesome thing he'd seen on a racecourse. I would love to see Frankel tested against a few of the best 2000m horses Cirres d Aigles and other consistent performers (Snow Fairy?) and see if he can gap those types. I can see you're an informed race fan and Frankel is something to get excited about. We had a horse here inthe 80's Kingston Town that I rate as high as any. It
Tom Queally was struggling to pull Frankel up at the end. That horse wasn't tired, When a horse is that good and everything comes so easy to them they idle. I hope he meets Canford Cliffs so CC can eyeball Frankel 2 furlongs out, Queally presses the hyperdrive button and its See ya Canford Cliffs...
It remains to be seen, but Atlantic Jewel could sit alongside Frankel and then outsprint him. Black Caviar is a sprinter over 1200m.
Goodness me. I never knew he ran a race like this, Just shows he is human after all.
Watch them going round the bend. Frankel is cruising into the lead while all of the others are struggling to do anything but lose length after length. He won this race after 4 furlongs through forcing the opposition to push too soon and so they didn't have enough energy to catch him. Take out Zoffany and this was an easy win over Exelebration. If you look at 3 furlongs, Zoffany is the only horse who isn't tying to win the race. The others did and hence couldn't get near him. That = 3/4 length.
What I do find funny is the Frankel/ Black Caviar debate has ended and I've seen this type of debate crop up more and more.Testament to the horse we currently have I think.
the price money is more in the BC actually,but besides that ,he is a great horse but he never ran in a derby because he would stay the extra 2f. but a great horse at his dist.
@jockney7 Hay List , Foxwedge, Ortensia , Southern Speed , Buffering , Moonlight Cloud , Society Rock , that's a list of what she's beaten , Hay List the 2nd best sprinter in the world , Ortensia a G1 winner in your country , Foxwedge a G1 winner and was in the top 15 in the world before being retired , Southern Speed a caufield cup winner , Buffering queensland horse of the year , Moonlight cloud and Society rock both G1 winners , yeah she's faced not many hasn't she ? ;)
Frankel is the best horse I have ever seen and would beat anything from 7f to 1m 2f and I believe we may even see him in the arc
frankel is trained in britain,he is owned by k abdullah and is by galileo(ire) and kind(ire).
I think Frankel will put in an electric performance when he meets Canford.
All Queally has to do is sit tight on him. His stride will beat Canford Cliffs as long as Tom Queally keeps his cool. Canford loves to track you until the final furlong and then push in front of you. But if Frankel is held onto until 2f out and then asked to go, Canford won't quite have the pace to match that long stride.
Wish Mick Kinane was riding him.
That is fair enough mate. But the two Euros you mentioned were predominantly milers! What I will say is though, the very best of our lot rarely travel over too America for the breeders cup (unless they are O'Brien Trained) and even then a lot of the time they are entered in the wrong race!. The biggest mistake was putting Galileo on dirt. But Frankel is the real deal, Goldikova would struggle to get within 6 of him and he beat St Nicholas Abbey by 7 lengths, barely coming off the bridle at 1m1/4
@ASupremeOwl I agree with you in part: Frankel is a freak. An incredible racing machine and an absolute privilege for those who've been fortunate enough to have seen him in the flesh. The 2000 Guineas is one of my all time fav races. Anyone suggesting BC could beat Frankel over a (UK) mile is being ambitious and a tad disrespectful, but let me assure you the only thing that will put to bed in a few months will be those second rate European sprinters of yours!
@TheAmanda154 spot on, Amanda. I know they say it takes all sorts but some of the opinions expressed here are difficult to fathom. For me, to understand the greatness of an animal like Frankel, all you need is a pair of fully functional eyes. No great intelligence or insight, just the ability to see. Yet the number of people who deny the flaming obvious is extraordinary. Sometimes it gets you down, but then I just think of the next race and the prospect of unlimited and joyous bragging rights.
an even better fact is Cityscape has never run a mile in the UK in under 1.39 yet he goes to Hong Kong and comes 0.5L second to Able One in a race run in under 1.34. Does that mean Cityscape is a far better horse than Frankel?
It's hard to line up horses in the era pre shuttle stallions and overseas travel.I'm sure I've seen sprinters as good as Black Caviar for example but they never had the chance to go os. Her races have been hand picked and she hasn't been asked to try a mile for fear of blemishing her unbeaten record. Having said that I've never heard of a non- quarter horse running a sub 10 second 200m!
@ASupremeOwl couldn't agree more, i'm going for a double with Frankel and So You Think, both around 11/8 atm.
continued... Hardly anywhere else on the world runs on. American horses perform criminally bad abroad, whereas our horses are dominant. So all of a sudden the track records come into question, because the standard of American racing comes into question, Frankel is undoubtedly the best horse in the world at the moment. I've never seen sec run live so I can't stack up the form of other horses. But I've never once stated Frankel was better. He is however yet to be beaten, so I don't know his limits
No he beat the 2nd best horse in the world over 10 furlongs. and a breeders cup turf winner by 7 lengths over an extended 10 furlongs. He was arguably a better 10 furlong horse than a miler. And he was a pretty good miler as it was. I usually agree with what you have to say but on this I don't . For a couple of reasons, the first being horse racing doesn't revolve around around the USA, the second being in Europe (where he raced) a mile is a classic distance. It is of great importance here.
Again you love Zenyatta. N1. Never went outside CA. 2. Never ran 12f. 3.She didn't even run in g1 company at 3 never mind stepping up in trip. 4. This one is about Frankel, he has won half of his races without a acemaker. But ask yourself what is a pacemaker there for? For a strong gallop. Why would a miler need a strong gallop at 10f? Surely this would hinder a horse that doesn't get the trip, especially on soft heavy ground against the likes of CDA. Yet he cruised up on the bridle and won easy
@LCSimberto have people actually seen black caviar race? ive watched all of frankel's races, yes the horse has an amazing turn of speed but he is basically at full throttle for the final sprint every race, No one has ever seen black caviar at full throttle yet she wins every race going away from her opposition, Black Caviar is the best sprinter the world has ever seen yet she stepped up to 1400m for the 1st time and smashed them on the weekend. Only the absolute freak of natures can do that.
How have I implied that? I've stated the obvious. The USA is going through a very tough time in racing and he would have been beating weaker horses over there than over here. You are right, many do go over, but we seldom send our Creme de la creme. STS, Zarkava, Frankel, Danedream all stayed in Europe. Cheltenham is awesome. Best week of the year. Still on a downer from it being over.
Frankel's next race ( and final race of this season ) will be the all aged mile Group QEII at Ascot - where he will clash with Canford Cliffs again. So You Think couldn't blow smoke up Frankel's arse.
@SoulSurvivor79 Thanks mate, I'm not one to boast like that but I temporarily lost my cool at a brain dead contributor yanking my chain. Couldn't believe Nathaniel's price, his costly supplementation for the race told me everything I needed to know. I've never been overly impressed with St. Nicholas Abbey and the onIy one I was worried about was poor Rewilding. I don't claim any kudos for backing Frankel, he's the best horse I've ever seen (and Sir Henry!) Take it easy buddy
good as it gets dodgey ride but didnt look like been beaten so just hope this is a super star
A horse has to be 4 or older to run in the Queen Anne. He wasn't allowed to run against Goldikova at Royal Ascot
My opinion, This horse is goin to beat CC.. Frankel looks the real deal! His stride, his turn of foot, when hes asked hes gone! He shattered every horse put in front of him! Now i know he hasn't met a CC's which i am a big fan of but Frankel is goin to get better nd better! This is the first race where he was really settled even at da start and given a more positive ride i honestly think Canford cliffs cant beat him! Ive won alot of money off CC but i will be backing against him this time!
Just finished watching the Breeder's Cup races today. Too bad Frankel wasn't in one of them. Would love to see how he would do over here.
O'Brien did not have a good day today.
@SvendBosanvovski Sir Henry Cecil as said ' He will get 10 furlongs standing on his head ' The horse is a freak, Could the same be said about Black Caviar could she win a Gr1 over a mile? Or is she all speed and 6f is her only real distance? This is why Frankel is so highly rated he is so versatile in terms of distance and ground. And why I made the point about ratings. 130 over 6 furlongs, Frankel would laugh at that...
@watchinginawe Amanda, can I pick your brains about a couple of horses who I think are underrated & rarely get mentioned in the list of 'greats.' I have a real soft spot for Pebbles & loved it when 'England's super filly wins the Breeders Cup!' But the performance that really stands out for me was the 1985 Champion Stakes when she absolutely decimated a class field. The other horse I feel is underrated is Generous, who was a devastating winner of the Derby and King George. How did you rate them?
Pebbles is/was my fav I even got a pic with her at dalham Hall in 89, I rem she was 1st filly to win eclipse , destroyed them all in the champion then routed them in breeders Cup!
She was tough and her turn of foot was deadly.
i agree,might be a longtime b4 you see one like him again. but their should be no talk of comparisons to horses who ran over 1 1/2 and vise versa. his connections never though he could see out 1 1/2 and his career has shown that. just what i think.
@CannyBeSerious milers in Europe beside Frankel by 3 and 7 1/2 lengths. Hes seen off a future Epsom Derby runner up/ Irish Derby winner, A future King George winner, An Irish 2000 Guineas winner, A July Cup/Prix De La Foret/Haydock Sprint cup winner, A Prix De La Moulin, Prix De Le Jacque Marois winner in one season with utter ease. His form is rock solid. Black Caviar races the same old horses everytime she steps on a track. Haylist, Star Witness Zzzzzz...
@MrThebigblueone it is supposed to be coming over to the UK next year so then we'll see i am reserving judgement until then
@TheAmanda154 Isn't it weird Amanda how some people don't get it? Sometimes you need to read between the lines. What blew me away about the 2000G was that they decided to run in that fashion. Sir Henry was telling the world " I have got an absolute monster here and I'm going to show you all what he can do." To plan to win like that you must know you're not only the best, but you're the best by a huge margin, in a championship race. His demolition of CC yesterday was even more breathtaking.
frankel is a fucking demon that horse has got some speed
feel free to comment, i have no hatred of American racing and all the horses you have mentioned are champions and won their races fairly, i have only pointed the finger at 1 horse who i have seen in pictures as a yearling and as he progressed through his career and watched the videos and there is something not quite right about him, watch the end of his triple crown wins, there is no easing down at the end, its natural for a horse to ease before the line, maybe not if hes not feeling anything
@TheAmanda154 Grovel, grovel, grovel. You were right. I was wrong. Hope you won't demand that I walk from Goodwood to Newmarket in a pink and green "I Heart Frankel" shirt.
Is Workforce broke records in his 3 year old season. I don't think he will ever go down as one of the all time greats so I tend to take record times with a pinch of salt. I don't think anyone has ever said Frankel is the greatest of all time, but Timeform didn't rate sec as they only started giving American horses ratings in 2000 so Frankel was bound to be top without sec there. Having said that we don't know frankels limits, this was obviously an off day, so to take it into isolation is unfair.
Good man
@TheAmanda154 Ah well, the supporters of other horses are going to get to experience the "Hughes/Hannon headscratching and I don't understand what happened there" experience!
Sorry, I actually meant British AND Irish racing. I like how you can base that on one festival. Forgot to say the best steeplechaser in the world before he retired is Kauto Star and the best one in training now is Sprinter Sacre. Both French breds but trained in England. But the champion jockey of NH over the last 17 years is AP McCoy (Irish). The champion trainer of the last 7 years is Paul Nicholls (British). So do you really wanna continue this?
The greatest impediment to any horse performing to expectations is the little guy sitting on its back! Pilot error gets many a good horse beaten. Remember the crime of Zenyatta's last race?
Go On Frankel!!!!!
mtoto was a big horse with a long stride watch the videos of mtoto and you will see? frankel isnt in same class its hard too judge a horse from different generations we could agree that they was the best of there time.
Frankel first, Zoffany second, Excelebration third and lovely speedy Dream Ahead there too ! It is like a list of today`s exciting young stallions !Was Zoffany champion first season sire last year ?? I know he had a sensational Royal Ascot !Was not Frankel`s best race and the ride was indifferent, to say the least , but he still won the other 13 races by a total of 74 lengths on turf and that is a modern day record ! If you saw that figure, you could be mistaken for thinking he was a 2 mile or Ascot Gold Cup type.
i still say this wasnt queallys finest hour in the saddle and it was only frankels class that saved his skin.
however he more than made up for it in the susses where frankel absolutely destroyed canford cliffs fair and square.
@DoubleOSevenpoint5 it was in the race as a pace makers, pace makers rarely win their job it to get to the front early to set a good pace :)
@beejay62 Since Black Caviar is a sprinter then I'd have thought her sectional times would be quicker than a horse who as been running over a mile. Black Caviar couldn't keep that pace for a full mile hence the reason she is a sprinter. A mile would stretch her to the maximum I feel. I would love to see Frankel and Black Caviar race over 7f. Surely the fairest distance?
he'll be even better over 10f, Quealy messed up in this race, he pushed the button 4f out before they had got to the bend, if you watch the horse in front moving over to the rail Tom rushes Frankel forward to go through the gap and just kept going instead of steadying him and kicking on in the straight
@SvendBosanvovski Sorry the reason Frankel is 'rated' the best in the world... 6f, 7f, 8f, 10f do not look to be a problem for Frankel. Im sure he would have been Champion Sprinter and equalled BC's rating of 130 over 6f had he stepped down to that trip, He was running 11 second furlongs in the Guineas for the first 5 furlongs on the Rowley mile which is probably the toughest mile straight in the world. Hes won over 7 furlongs, And was rated the best in the world over 8 furlongs and like...
@raff23 he is slowly winding up the pace for 5f and then still have her turn of foot towards the back end of a 8f race in the UK? I doubt that very much and if she could i think we would all hold our hands up but it is just pie in the sky at the moment. We don't even know if she can get a fast paced 1400m let alone a stiff 8f at Ascot.
The reality is that the stable team just dont know how to ride this horse or the tactics to use!.... he is such a freak animal with an enormous turn of foot and stamina ,and more importantly, the alpha male desire to out perform his rivals in the pack order !! ...let him run free or hold him up or whatever ??.. Frankel isnt your average good quality thoroughbred ...he is something unique ..just enjoy the moment ..a horse like him only comes along once in a lifetime!
So Frankel is a miler?
Milers don't cut it in the USA. They end up on the county fair circuit.
I have only seen this race and frankly he would be hard pressed to go further than the mile.against class horses in something like the BC. A very very good racehorse but he has raced only up to a mile and has always had the benefit of bunnies from the same stable. Personally speaking if I was the owner of a horse in that stable I wouldnt want it placed against Frankel.
that was a close one
@LCSimberto She hasn't won a 1 mile classic has she! She is without any doubts the worlds best sprinter.Frankel is not a sprinter but is without doubt the worlds best miler. Both are the best at what they do but they are completely different animals and both are ridden completely different.Also don't talk about the amount of races they have had as Black Caviar has been racing for longer than Frankel.Frankel is 9 & 0 if he was the same age by average his record would be better lol
Secretariat the Ben Johnson of horse racing
We will never know how fast Sea the Stars actually was. He beat listed horses the same way he beat multiple group 1 winners! So how high he could actually raise the bar is a mystery. What I would say is he had more in the tank in all of his races. Most horses wouldn't have been able to do what he did that season but he could because I don't think he was ever stretched. He was just one of them that always did what was required and no more. What I would say with regard to records...
@LCSimberto This is the only race of Frankel's that was ever close to a defeat...and this had nothing to do with the horse, but more to do with an absolutely horrendous ride by Tom Queally. The fact that Frankel held on to win this race speaks volumes about this animal. Queally setting him down at the 1/2 mile pole is ludicrous...if he had waited to push the button at a reasonable time (2, 2 1/2 furlongs or so), this too would have been a laugher.
He shouldn't have sent Excel and St Nic there mate. Excel ran on heavy going just 2 weeks ago. St Nic has ran 8 times this season winning once and again, his last run was on heavy. Having said that, in those conditions Excel fresh wouldn't have beaten WD, but it would have been closer. AO'B needs to look after his horses rather than running them into the ground.
@thepoacher2010
i totally agree with your last comment. there is no doubt the guineas was a brilliant performance but it was a freak, one off performance. frankel was easily head and shoulders above the rest of the guineas field but apart from him, you couldnt take the form at 100% face value.
back to queally and the guy is just an average jockey. when you compare him to cecils previous stable jocks its like comparing a robin reliant to a ferrari
AMEN!
The Guineas was a freak result, as many of the fancied horses were not ridden out in the last 3 furlongs. If you think that the form was reliable, then you are asking us to believe that Dubawi Gold is around 60lbs superior to Roderic O'Connor. Frankel is an exceptional horse, but his rating is too high by 5 or 6 lbs. The Sussex is a very close call, but I slightly favour CC. We'll all know by this time next week.
He's the best horse anywhere since the 70's. The Zenyattas, Rachels, etc... wouldn't get him off the bridle. He was 10lbs clear of the 2nd best horse in the world officially and about 13lbs clear of the best American horse. That;s nearly a stone. Zenyatta wouldn't be in the top 10 euro horses since 2000 if she was European.
Consider Excelebration would be a 5 time group 1 winner without Frankel, and Canford Cliffs was a 5 time group 1 winner (Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova). Now if you consider that Frankel has been running in two extremely wet summers it's obviously going to be difficult for him to break records when he hasn't been on fast ground once. Work Force holds the derby record. Does that mean he's the best derby runner ever? No does it bollocks. Let us not forget America runs on a surface that...
Pretty hard to deny your own eyesight...Cheers
@schardy80 its just not geographically likely. No way will Cecil allow his horse travel to Australia. its hard enough to get Henry to go to France. Equally BC if she ever comes to Europe will be aimed at the 6 furlong race at Royal Ascot and the July Cup. The match up just won't happen.
@TheAmanda154 We knew it, didn't we? How good was that?!!!!!!!
Frankel will own BC