What happens when a train gets buried in snow - 1952 Donner Pass Incident
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- čas přidán 14. 12. 2023
- In today's video, we take a look at the time in 1952 when a passenger train got stuck in the snow, and the near impossible task of getting it out
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At least they didn't have to eat each other this time...
😮
Excuse ME...?!
Oh this wasn't the Döner incident.
@@romycarldelacruz1980 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party
This time? 👀
“Snow is silly, soft stuff. It won’t stop me… “
Proceeds to get stuck in it
Yeah until it stops you.
This isn't silly soft stuff in the Sierras at about a elevation of 6000 feet
"but there's trouble ahead..."
@@califdad4he’s joking, it’s a reference to an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine
this is a really well executed rescue tbh. This could have been so much worse but the railroad, staff, and passengers were all well organized and helpful. A happy ending
the bad ending is what happened to Wellington WA
@@robertbalazslorincz8218the Bad Ending is how Donner Pass got its name.
@@robertbalazslorincz8218 I would've thought the bad ending would be what happened on the Lizard Head Pass of the Rio Grande Southern railway from March 3-10, 1938.
Something to add, this type of Snow on the Sierras is a very wet dense snow with a water ratio of 5:1 to 3:1 compared to normal snow that is 15:1 to 20:1. This snow is nicknamed Sierra Cement and sticks to everything like toothpaste and makes the removal or getting through it incredibly hard.
Interesting comment. Yeah, I can totally believe that being a huge problem. Even here in PA we get snow and it's normally just an exercise to remove it... but once in a while we get a storm where each shovel full feels like wet sand, and got help you if you pack it in somewhere, it'll be there till April!
I'm particularly impressed they managed to stick two rotaries, those things usually chew through anything!
"Cinders and ashes!" cried Thomas, "I'm stuck!" And he was.
If it takes all the power to clear it, how did two scottish twins clear a massive drift with a tiny plough. Im calling shenanigans.
"When something happens, you care nothing for your train, but sit there, and moan for your fitter. We bring it home, even if it's only on one cylinder!"
-Duck/Montague
@@randeshjayawandhane2844"Nothing" boasted 199, "Ever happens to us. We are reliable"
Should've phoned the Fat Controller and asked for the assistance of Donald and Douglas
@@randeshjayawandhane2844 and aslo Edward, but then it was only one driver.
Lmao I love this comment
I had an elderly friend who was on this train. He was in his mid 20s when he was on it. Told me about and how friendly and helpful the Southern Pacific staff were. He did mention something that always struck me as odd. He said that somewhere in the assist effort of the train there was a WESTERN Pacific 2-8-8-2 that was there too help. Im guessing the WP offered to help the SP and sent on of their big engines to help through Truckee. Ive never seen any evidence of this but It he said he seen it with his own eyes. My friend Dan wasnt a "misidentifying " locomotives type of guy. He traveled all over North America for his love of steam power. At his Funeral he had a picture of him and his friends in front of a one of the FEC 4-8-2s in service with the NdeM. Miss you Dan!
The WP brought the second set of tracks across the Sierras and the Great Basin around 1910 using SP rights of way. Beforehand there was only one track for both east and westbound traffic. The two railroads often cooperated because of their close proximity to each other.
I mean it’s actually not surprising that nobody sued the rail company, the railroad company and its staff went above and beyond to ensure the passengers comfort and safety in such harsh conditions, they did everything they possibly could at the time and I think the passengers understood that
If it happened today I can already here the screaming Karen’s. considering this happened in California they are probably worse than usual
People were still intelligent in the fifties. Imagine such an incident now... they would be attacking each other and then suing for millions...
Yes this was a different time no question lawsuits would be filed today, but also counter suit if the railway can prove it was not at fault the passengers then have to pay the railway (Amtrak has done this)
Yeah, but today someone would have been on their cell phone within a couple of hours because, ohmigod, they have been inconvenienced. A different culture.
or people did have common sense, the rail company did send 3 rescues train with snowplows to rescue them. What else can they do? Without insight.
“Losh sakes, Donald! It's Henry! Dinna fash yourself, Henry! Wait a while! We'll have you out!” - Douglas
A steamer rescuing a diesel, where have I heard that before....
funny enough.... it just happened a few months ago :P
?
@@MorrisHillmanProductions UP X4014 helped push a stalled diesel train
Ah yes, thanks for jogging my memory.
Wasn’t a successful rescue this time though
RIP to the 2 lives lost in this incident.
Fun fact: the last peice of railroad equipment from that train, is owed by the GGRM or Goldem Gate Railroad Museum and is in a town called Schellville outside of Sonoma California
Brings back memories of being stuck on a BR train outside Cumbria, December 1980, after trying to get back to Belfast from Leeds Uni. We had to travel North from Leeds after returning due to a breakdown, then go cross country towards Liverpool for the ferry, finally wedged in a huge snowdrift for about 8 hours after finding *that* ferry cancelled. We did make it to Stranraer only to be faced with utterly monstrous seas halfway across to Larne. At least the restaurant was empty and we could get served 😆
The things we used to put up with as students....
In the end of the 80's an avalage blocked the track and stranded our train at the station of Garmisch partenkirchen in Southern Germany
Local power from the railway station and some portable gasheaters from me and other passengers made that situationa an experience i will never forget.
Everybody becomes equal in such dire situations
I will never forget how happy people can be when you brew several cans of morning coffee on a portable gasstove in the enterance halway of a carrieage.
It lasted 3 days before the line was cleared.
At the final destination we all had a cup of coffee made on a portable gasstove at the platform of Insbruck.
The Traincrew bought local Ausrian treats "apfelstrudel" for us passengers.
Sometimes you yust have to make the best of it
One of the first to get there was a member of the ski patrol from the closest resort .
He was an escaped German pow brought to the USA after capture with Rommel ‘s troops in Africa
that was never caught .
He turned himself in the 1960’s.
“According to his autobiography, he joined a ski expedition formed to rescue the City of San Francisco, a train stranded in a blizzard in the Sierra Nevada in January 1952, immediately after which Life magazine took his and the group's picture. Meanwhile, FBI wanted posters for him were in most post offices. For 40 years Gärtner was listed as one of the FBI's most wanted persons. However, since the authorities correctly surmised his reason for escaping, to avoid repatriation rather than a violent goal such as seeking revenge for Germany's defeat, he was not designated "dangerous," which would have resulted in a more intense manhunt.[2]
Good on the passengers for handling the situation so well. I can't imagine modern day people dealing with being stranded in the snow as gracefully.
At the time trains were still considered fancy and high class. This isnt getting stuck in the metro. Its like being stuck in a small hotel. Still having hot food was likely a big contributor to morale.
Passenger cars at the time were often equipped with their own support systems for power and HVAC, as well as getting electrical power from the locomotive, and steam for heating from a steam generator in the locomotive.
Today's Amtrak trains are entirely electric, and the coaches are 100% dependent on the locomotives to provide electrical power for lighting and HVAC. Standby generators are no longer a thing. If the cars are disconnected from the locomotive or the locomotive shuts down, there is no HVAC in the cars, along with no lighting, no wifi, and no hot foods or beverages.
Valahol azt olvastam, hogy az 50 években sokkal máskép gondolkodtak az amarikaiak. Sokan járták meg a ww2 frontokat, a fiatal nők , családanyák egyedül vitték a háztartás. Gyárakban dolgoztak. Az emberek probléma megoldó képességük jobb volt. Mondjuk ez a nemzedék volt a legjobb. A 60 évek végén indult a hanyatlás.
Yeah at least it was a pretty high end train, like he said there was a frickin barber saloon and bar onboard so it did have a lot of facilities. Plus the passenger numbers werent that high in relation to the ammenities onboard. Just 200 or so passengers and 40-ish crew members over 10-15 carriages. For comparison a modern day train would have just 3-4 carriages for 200 passengers for a daytime train and 5-8 for an overnight service like the Chicago to Oakland train here.
Yep , too many people addicted to opiates & alcohol ,nowadays, not many people walking out of the train
In retrospect, naming a mountain pass after that group of people who got stuck in the snow there & had to eat each other, and then putting a railroad through it, kinda seems like hubris.
why do i have the feeling that everyone who recognised the fugitive POW didnt say anything because it was the right thing to do at the time?
Folks still knew right from wrong at that time. It's very different nowadays.
@@LittleKitty22 Yeah, that's why per capita violent crime, domestic abuse, and other awful things have gone down significantly since then.
@@tim3172 You're thinking of the 70s-90s. The 50s was lower than today.
When I was 7, my mum, grandmum, and I were on a train going to Toronto, ON., Canada to go to the Toronto Airport. It had been a heavy winter and snow lay around 4” deep. During the ride, strong winds and major snowstorms began, with the wind also picking up snow that had fallen earlier, causing white-out conditions and drifting. Our train became stuck in a very deep snowdrift, requiring the poor train staff to go dig it out. It took ages, and by the time the engines were dug out, they’d frozen up. Via Rail had to send 2 more engines to us to push us to the Milton station, where the staff had radioed ahead to arrange taxis for any passengers who had to get to the airport for an impending flight. The train staff really went above and beyond for us. This was in 1983 or 84. Winters were much more severe back then, and we got a lot more snow than we do nowadays.
my grandpa was in a very similar situation... and he even got out of the train and took a short walk
Living in the Donner Pass area I get it. When a blizzard hits it's no joke. I've spent plenty of days stuck in my house waiting for a plow to come.
10 years ago Amtrak 370 the Pere Marquette had just left Holland MI on its way to Grand Rapids MI when it got stuck in the Snow & had to wait for Csx to send help as well as clear the 🛤️, 370 was pulled back to Holland while csx cleared the line. West Michigan can get as much 🌨️ as parts of the Rockies & having grown up here I've seen my share of deep ❄️...
I think this and the snow of 1938 on the Rio Grande Southern are the most ridiculous stories there are...
Tell me you watch hyce without telling me you watch hyce. :D
I seriously doubt that the stranded passengers and the railroaders, military personnel, state police, and highway workers, and local residents doing everything they possibly could to rescue the passengers would have considered this "ridiculous".
As someone who has never seen snow IRL, its quite chilling to hear stories like this. No pun intended.
Having been through a few blizzards, the stages are:
1. Elation at the new falling snow.
2. A growing dread at the work that lies ahead.
3. The work, chill, overheating, exhaustion of clearing the snow.
4. The relief of finally having cleared the snow.
And then after the blizzard passes, inevitably, clear skies with sunshine and bitter cold.
This is like the real „murder on the orient express" with it being stuck in the snow
But without the murder right???
@@FunAngelo2005 i mean there was no murder but two people still died
Honestly I am surprised there is no american version of "Murder" happening in US on that train, Hollywood is making wierder switches.
@@randomnickify I suppose, in part, because central Europe is more exotic and thus escapist to Americans. HOWEVER, that said, there IS an American answer to it, but set in the Old West: "Breakheart Pass" (1975): A US Army special train, carrying reinforcements and relief supplies to deal with an epidemic at a remote-but-strategically-important outpost (one key to securing a gold field supply route) is headed up a narrow rail spur several hundred miles through the mountains in the dead of winter, as the people of the train are gradually being killed off (but due to their desperate mission and remote location, the train can't afford to stop for long). Who can be trusted when all is not as it seems?
My, what an adventure that must've been! I have to think hard to imagine that this happened in Sunny California and not in one of the northern states like Minnesota, Montana, North Dakota or New York. I can't be sure if I did read about this before in a magazine but if I didn't, then it is always a treat to hear stories like these from you!
This happened in the Sierra Nevada mountains which run north-south through the center of California. Donner Pass is 7,000 feet above sea level so snow is expected in winter.
It's also in the northern part of California which has a more temperate climate in general than Southern California. Generally when people talk about "Sunny California" they mean the SoCal area between the mountains and the coast (LA, San Diego, etc.).
@@spencers5898 I was aware of the location in the video but thank you. Not being from there has me at a habit of saying Sunny California.
As someone who's lived in the Sierra-Nevada area for most of my 25 years of living, snowfall is a great hazard in the winter. Snowfall can get as high as 10ft tall at the peaks.
"Turn around and go back." I like that one a lot!
This feels like a Thomas story.
Interestingly enough, there are a number of episodes where Engines get stuck in Snow
This is a much better retelling of the story than listening to 4 drunk people try to tell it :P
A fascinating telling nonetheless! I'm curious what safety precautions have been learned from this since
A passenger train being trapped in a snow drift for multiple days must’ve been a nightmare for the passengers
Maybe but they all probably also realised that there wasnt much they themselves could do. People have a tendency to surprisingly not panic when caught in rough situations. I guess its kind of a survival instinct to just try and get through whatever is in your way. The panic usually only comes afterwards as people realise what they actually went through. Plus the fact that over time as more and more attempts failed and the situation got worse, thats probably more so when people started getting desperate
If this was bad enough, there was a time in 1938 when a train on the Rio Grande Southern got stuck in the snow and it took 7 days to free the RGS train.
Black ice is everyone's favourite Snow hazard.
Great video! Kudos to the photographer. I hope he got an award 😊
Thanks for making this video. That was a cool trip on the zephyr I'm glad i got to experience it.
It took so many trains to save one train
"This causing confusion and delay." It is causing confusion to people and delay for trains that run on that side of rail line.
Regardless, it is an interesting story and could be a film with another plot, for example horror film or action film.
Great story. Really enjoyed the details and pictures. Thanks for the change of pace from the Wars and Politics. We all need a change.
Cexially refreshing, thankyou 👍🤙
Great story!
XLNT , thanks👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Now please talk when the Rio Grande Southern got all its equipment stuck on Lizardhead pass
This happened a few years before I was born, but my family lives in Roseville CA, about 55 miles down the rail line and had decent weather where we live, we could see the Sierras from our living room window and mom said it felt odd that we were ok but this problem was about 5 thousand feet higher than us and of course completely different weather, since we don't get snow
This very well could have ended up like the Wellington, WA (today Stevens Pass) train disaster when 2 trains (a passenger & US Mail train) were stalled from a 9 day blizzard dumping as much as a foot of new snow every hour & as much as 11 feet in one day, until on February 28th, 1910, when it began to rain from what Northwesterners have always called a “Pineapple Express” -which scientists have finally acknowledged & renamed this weather phenomenon an “atmospheric river” which during Winter start out as massive rain events in the lowlands, but in the mountains start out as huge blizzards before the tropical origins of these storms (from Hawaii) finally win the battle raising temps into the 50’s°f. This occurred the next day, March 1st along with thunder & a lightning strike broke off a 10 foot slab of ice measuring half a mile long, a quarter mile wide sending it downhill slamming into both trains, sending both trains crashing another 150 feet downhill to land in the Tye River killing 96 people. Likewise those trains were stuck in the snow & efforts to send rescue trains had failed. It remains the worst avalanche ever in North America. 3 days later on March 4, 1910 another avalanche NE of this event in the western foothills of the Rocky Mountains in British Columbia (which Washington State was originally part of) 63-people died in what is the worst avalanche in Canadian history at Rogers Pass. It should be noted that Mt.Baker an active volcano in Washington state & just north of Stevens Pass holds the world record snowfall of 95 FEET OF SNOW or the bottom 9 floors of a single high rise tower. It makes any recorded snowfall in Buffalo, NY seem relatively tiny in comparison.
My grandma was pregnant with my mom and was traveling to visit family. She was scared to death she would go into labor while being stuck on this train. She said it was so cold at night and the smell was horrible.
Where is hyce and the limes?
I had this happen on a train when I was a teenager. We weren’t stuck nearly so long though. Only nine hours, in the middle of a January night, on a snow-drifted Illinois prairie. And, being Amtrak, they were not nearly as prepared as SP had been. We were nine hours without lights, heat, electrical outlets, food, etc.
This scenario gives me murder on the orient express vibes
This was quite interesting. That particular area can have big trouble with snow...or, at least it used to. Probably not as much in future.
That's literally my backyard. Last year err technically two Winters Ago by one week.
Sitting at home, I deal with ice roads and snow all the time but this winter there was just something different about the wind and the snow coming down. I decided to evacuate, came back three days later and there was literally a 10-foot wall of snow where are my road was. I wasn't able to go back home for 4 months.
Ironic that the train got stuck in Donner Pass, considering what happened to the Donner Party.
Luckily, the train seems to have had enough food on hand.
In Australia it gets so hot the train tracks start buckling because they expand meaning the trains have to stop
A better result then the Wellington, Wa. Disaster of 1910.
Never seen this episode of Snowpiercer before
Reminds me of a few lesser incidents on the Settle-Carlisle line
Imagine this happening to the California Zephyr
Funnily enough, there’s footage of the California Zephyr, helped in the from by AC-11 4270, being diverted over Donner Pass because the Feather River Canyon was blocked. This was during the exact same winter by the way
This is quite an ordeal. I feel like someone should make a movie about it.
Maybe also have a detective onboard and a murder taking place for extra drama.
1:00 The lounge car shown with roof observation windows is not used by Southern Pacific. It was one of three built for the Atlantic Air Line for train service on the US east coast.
We have the only surviving car from that train at the Golden gate railroad Museum, Union Pacific RPO 5901
This needs to be adapted into a Thomas & Friends special (with Spamcam and Murdoch respectively).
Quite a story about Gaertner. No one knew what to do with him
Perhaps the reason everyone cooperated and no one sued was because the rail company was honest and straight up. Had they lied as always the case today of course they will be sued.
please do a video on
the porters steam loco
the Japanese class d5,
the Chinese QJ 2,10,2
or just exsamples of asian trains
how do gear trains work
something on saddle bolier and side tanks (like the big water boxes) tank engines
double ended diesel trains (and electric)
eletric trains
American and European switches other then the British class 07-09
what to do if the train stalls
one talking about the different types of steam funnles and there uses,
a video on steam locomotive combination breaks (steam and vacuum brakes)
a short video on how a Armstrong turn table works
what did train flagman do
what did trains (mostly steam) do when going in tunnels, ive heard of gas masks or just useing a wet cloth, or did they bring in other engines like later on they used electric trains, or were there no bigv tunnels.
evaluation of electric trains
why are some trains wagion tops (the stream lining thing to boilers)
railway terms abd slang
one on the meaning of flag and lantern colors like green on rear engine means theres another one coming soon,
the different types of cut offs/reversers/Johnson bar
some are a big lever, some are a big valve wheel, and ive also seen some that are like rods, one exsample is train sim world 3 and im not sure where to find the other reverser
and how much water do steam trains take usually, and how much would the crew drink
If I was a passenger in the train I wouldn’t have remained calm, knowing the party scaling the pass in the winter, know known as the donner pass disaster happened a hundred years prior, where the settlers couldn’t overcome the weather there, and parished.
Edit: the no drinking alcohol rule on ghe train was just as terrifying!!!
Luckily for them, but it just goes to show you can't trust trucks, Or snow.
Sorry, I just can't watch picture in picture. Wish it was full screen.
As they're talking about shoveling snow clear of the windows and doors, I'm thinking they all could just leave - unless I'm missing something here.
You should watch the classic British Transport Film "Snowdrift at Bleath Gill".
Donner Pass, not Yuba Pass. Yuba Pass in north of Donner Pass on California State Route 49.
shout out George
It would be a nice view if it wasn't freezing most likely
Did we learn nothing from the Donner Party? Never traverse the Sierra-Nevada during the winter months!?
0:53 I know I am picky but did Pullman have coaches in the City trains? I thought those were all railroad owned.
…don’t watch this if you work FOR a winter railroad, it my avalanche training didn’t scare me enough already.
Switzerland: *chuckles*
The ghosts of George Donner and other dead members of the Donner party trapped this train in snow...
The cool room at my local bottle shop is cold enough for me. If we were suppose to live in snow, God would of gave us coats.
Imagine the amount of cigarette smoke in the train cars in those days before no smoking was instituted
They have the same issue with The Ghan.
Donner Pass….of course!
I thought machine gun jelly was a bank robber. Apparently he’s the narrator. for this video.
03:35 What's wrong with that knee? Or is it just an illusion?
Snowpiercer, anyone?
Diesel power were ALCO PA/PB not EMDs. National Guard tried to drive up with M-29 Weasels
The Alcos were powering the Streamliner City of San Francisco. The diesel locomotives which participated in the rescue of passengers and recovery of equipment were EMDs. The weasels bogged down in the deep snow but were successful in running on the track after a plow went through.
Will ... you ....please .... take .....a Goddamned breath.
Bad time to have cheaped out and sat in coach instead of getting a berth...
Is anyone else having major snowpiercer vibes...... or is it just me?
If that happened today I could just see all the KAREN'S complaining non stop
Only 39.5 hours.
Probably faster to drive.
Weird stuff. Trucks arrived to take their luggage but couldn’t take people away? People could walk to them to interview them but they could walk back the other way? 😂
The people rode in a caravan of automobiles assembled by local residents. Trucks handled the luggage.
1952, was there any cannibalism involved?
There is video of them getting the loco in stuck czcams.com/video/Vj2B3y7IV0g/video.htmlsi=hL_FQ41zyhaZc0WM it’s at about 12:00
The commentator keeps saying “Yuba Pass.” That is not anywhere close to where this happened. It happened on Donner Pass near Highway 40.
In fact it happened at Yuba Gap, which is west of Donner Pass.
@@evanstauffer4470 Okay. ‘lotsa Yubas around there.
Hey, that's a Movie! Go to Hollywood!
At least they didn't have to resort to what the Donner Party had to resort to back in the 19th century.
Result is cannabilism , people in the cheap seats first !
I think yanks not having a clue how to use Wanted Posters is a much better story... 🤣
Surely you do a video on that and link it to trains... 🤣
Nobody drink the gin! I need it to... sterilize... my needles. Unrelated: I also need tonic water, to prevent malaria. Also I need limes to... for scurvy. I'll be in my room.
Girls from the ‘30s
What do you think happens? A passenger is murdered and everyone turns out to have done it. :-)
❄❄❄🚂🚃🚃👍😊