As a school bus mechanic I can confirm the difference in power between the generations of Cummins engines is astounding. The older ones without EGR, DPF and/or DEF have lasted a lot longer and have put out much better power figures compared to newer generations. The older ones we still have running do put out some soot but not an immense amount compared to the older International/Navistar and CAT powered busses. We're even having a new problem with a few newer Cummins powered busses where the ECM is throwing a Check Engine light for Random Missfire codes that has required an update to the protocols and calibration from Cummins, but they can't fix it until they get approval from the EPA. So now, we've got these brand new, low mileage (less than 10k miles), $4-500k school busses that we can't even run. It's sad to see the state of diesel motors in the current generation.
In 08 I wanted to purchase a truck that would last me the rest of my life needs. I bought the last year of the 5.9 HO Cummins in my 06 Ram. The more I see with the mess that politicians are creating, the more I am happy with the choice of purchase I made. Sad state of what is going on in the diesel industry. Why doesn't anybody start telling the "complete truth" about diesel and try to erase the bad name that environmentalists want to narrate on them? There are a lot of interesting facts that need to be considered by everyone before we brand diesel as that bad boy engine that the EPA is trying to brand them with. They take the worst facts as propaganda and conveniently leave out the rest of the facts that apply directly to the matter at hand, thus creating a false narrative.
I disagree with the false narrative argument. Look, if the state to the north of you was dumping raw sewage into the river where you draw your water, would that be ok with you? Hell no, and that is essentially what these cheaters are doing with these motors. They don’t want to take the time to engineer proper exhaust scrubbing, which isn’t that difficult. I guarantee you they will now and we’ll get the power back with low emissions lickity split. The gas guys did it and the diesel teams will too
@@gpenrod5221 it sucks that it's easier for the government to target automobiles rather than airplanes and big companies that are emitting significantly more emissions. and all this emissions stuff just means higher costs to the consumer. think about what the fines are doing to do.
Working as a parts man in a Mercedes Benz dealership, we are going thru this with the sprinter diesel vans and sport utility trucks. Replacing dpf , scr, and egr valves and software update. No client is happy when getting back, less power, running like crap, and check engine light on within 500 miles after getting back.
I do driveaway delivery of new plow trucks and when we deliver them there is most times a check engine light on. That's the first thing we are asked, "is the check engine light on". If it's not it's like, why not ?
@@TheGettyAdventures Well, it was invented by a French guy, so all the crap would come out in the wash eventually. The EPA is gonna make sure there's no rolling coal to dirty the white surrender flags. Next up, diesels running on freedom fries oil. 🤣
My favorite part about being a diesel mechanic for almost 15 years was getting the hell out of the field in 2015. Stuff was changing so fast from 2006-2012 every manufacturer was turning out untested rigged up junk. Even worse for me I was at International so our house engines were extra sketchy crap.
Makes me think of the bad stuff that got invented in the 1970s and 1980s for street legal gasoline engines in the USA. My dad did experience 2 of them, a 1979 Toyota Corolla with a cat meltdown, and a 1987 Hyundai Excel with a complex O2 sensor carb failing.
yea buying the cheap car never pays off we got the 85 supra 5mge still runs fine but i trying tell dad buy the best just get it used but nooo lol .to me best daily driver car is300 2005 back or sc300 1999 back got 260k on the original 2jz belts and just did brushes in alternator before it failed it needed it 8 bucks and grease bearings good for 150k more all belts and suspension bushing/struts [KYB brand only rest are junk] soon to be done all at the same time no here n their crap that why folk say it 100 dollars you to death fix it right and once @@skylinefever
@@overbuiltautomotive1299 Back then, how much did you have to spend to get a trouble free smog engine? I think about how at the time my dad had a 1987 Hyundai Excel, my mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. The engine and robot voice chip were fine. The rest of that car was an electrical glitch fest.
@@overbuiltautomotive1299 sometimes it does, mrs picked up an 07 GS460, needed a tensioner and plugs/throttlebody cleanout and it was mint. ABS module wasn't torqued properly so the brake lines leaked, easy fix during test drive lol. Poor guy sold the car so cheap he had no idea how to fix it. ALso did new front adaptive shocks, rides like a new car, gorgeous piece of kit for way too cheap. Rather have it over a new car worth 4x as much these days.. they are not even close in quality and ride comfort, speed, reliability. To this day (2-3 years later) it was the cheapest one ever sold in my country lol.
Ford has already addressed the “nox” issue by increasing the def usage. My 2023 super duty with the high output 6.7 has a 7.5 gallon def tank and it does go thru it faster than the 2022, however the EGR is smaller and “supposedly” it reintroduces less gasses back into the engine for reburn. That is a trade off I will gladly take. The government could make it easier on diesel manufacturers by mandating a 55 plus cetane rating on diesel fuel sold at the pump but they would rather burden auto manufacturers. The higher cetane would help ensure a complete burn of fuel thereby reducing emissions and soot.
@@treeamigo8447 Either way it costs to be the boss. You want a diesel ? Then be prepared to pay for more expensive fuel, def , oil and filter changes and fuel additives. If not then just get a gas engine and watch the big boys pass you by.
Two easy fixes here. Any diesel truck you buy be sure to purchase the longest factory warranty you can get and then sell it at the end of the coverage. The other is if you are fortunate enough to know a really competent diesel mechanic, stop taking your truck to the dealer.
The EPA requires it the owners and manufacturers don't want the crap on there so that means the EPA should be responsible for the crap. My thoughts are if I don't want it it's not gonna be there!
I paid cash for my truck years ago but couldn't do that now. I don't have or want a car/truck payment. After I bought my truck (2019) its value increased considerably due to covid, the economy or politics. Bottom line I can't afford it!
@@trolingertrucking9591there are also three particular politicians who are getting filthy rich off these particulate filters. That's why it is mandatory.
Even though Cummins has acted contrary to the regulators in the industry, I get a feeling Cummins won't be vilified in terms of public perception, like VW was when they got caught. These latest EPA ratings have become the bane of all manufacturer's existence these days.
VW should sue the Extreme Piss-head ASSocoation for egregious legislation. Of course they won't, as everyone's afraid of these $$$mall minded tyrant$$$. ABOUT TIME the EPA was drug down to reality...
My teacher in HS had a vw dieselgate car in 2015-16, it got around 50mpg she said and was great and I remember her being so pissed when she had to give the car back.
@@rickreese5794 And oblowzo, the puppet with the stick is his ass, allowed banned dispersant to pollute the coastline for generations... BP? Slap on the wrist.😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
@@jake_of_the_jungle9840No one "had to" "give" it back. My dad had a 2012 Passat tdi, thibg was awesome, averaged 40mpg in mostly town driving. The owners had 3 options if i recall correctly. 1, vw buys back your car. 2, vw installs updated exhaust/emissions equipment and pays you $7500 if my memory is correct. 3, you the owner take no action and continue driving car as is. I don't remember if you were eligible for money if you went the 3rd route. This was in state of MA. My dad got top trim model i think for 32k and vw paid him 28k as buyback. So he got 4-5 years out of the car, probably at least 60k miles, at average cost of 1,000 ish a year, as far as vehicle value loss/depreciation. The deal was too good for him to turn down.
@The Getty Adventures. I live in California, USA. I received my recall notice on Friday, 5 January, 2024. I am going to quote from me exact notice; "The engine control software in your vehicle must be updated with an upgraded calibration as required by the US Environmental Agency and the California Air Resource Board for better emissions performance. FCA will repair your truck free of charge. To do this, your dealership will reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM)." It sounds like they are just going to de-tune the engine much like with the EcoDiesel. Unfortunately, I live in CA so this recall is not optional for me. I have to do this for future registration, SMOG certifications will require a certificate to pass.
Wow! Thank you for the information. So it does look like they're going to go for the de-tuned route. I mean hopefully its not that noticeable but I would imagine there may be some type of performance loss.
It won't detune, it just increases DEF usage. The 2019s got the update via recall VB6 and the 2020+ trucks had it from the factory, including the power increase in 2021.
@@TheGettyAdventures Yeah. The unfortunate thing is I would my truck 3 months ago. It has really become one thing after another. I will look at OBD tuners after a few months, those will most likely be able to bring performance numbers back up.
My only real concern is what (if any) modifications are going to be required on existing trucks. When RAM adjusted the Eco Diesel to meet the new emissions standards, it changed the performance negatively. I will be curious to see what happens and what you think of the changes that will certainly be coming for the existing trucks.
There’s an emissions related recall out on the Ram website already for many of the affected trucks. For the 2013-18’s it’s just a software update. So far, the few that have had it done and reported results haven’t noticed any significant changes. None that I’ve read about have had the update very long or aftermarket monitoring to really give a good report, though, in my opinion.
It's the same thing regular engines went through in the 70's when EPA started making more and more demands on the emissions and manufactures were compelled to do things that might not have been the best answer overall, but it met the criteria. I remember when my dad bought a 73 Plymouth car with a huge 440 engine in it. For an engine that big you would expect a lot of performance. We were always disappointed in how little power it actually produced. It was detuned with low compression, tons of emissions controls, etc. Sounds a whole lot exactly like what diesel engines are going through now. Side comment. I was reading back 2-3 or so years ago how Bosch was experimenting with some different computers and sensors, mixed with their injectors and such and in theory they could create a diesel engine injection system that had more power, far less emissions devices on it and yet would meet the emissions standards set out. I thought then and still wish for something like that to happen, but from past history, I don't see the best answers winning out unfortunately.
Great video. I love my RAM 2500 with the 6.7. It’s my first diesel and I don’t know if I’d want to tow with anything else again. That being said, I was already paranoid about the emissions system. This isn’t helping. I’ll just wait and see what happens. The cost of replacing a truck today is unreasonable, putting a lot of us between a rock and a hard place.
I have 560K on my 18 3500. In order to keep the system runnng you need to use Lucas DEF cleaner once every 10K miles. Dont run errands with the truck. It needs to be used warm and run hard with trailers or weight to burn off the crap. At 400K the system needed work, but. If you keep the DPF filter clean you will not have problems.
The entire goal of the EPA is to eliminate the diesel engine in most vehicles. Their goal is totally ridiculous and will eventually destroy the economy, but nobody ever said that environmentalist radicals are logical. The post-2007 regs are a classic example of the government imposing onerous, impractical, and expensive emission requirements to make only minimal additional reductions in emissions from the prior "tiers." The basic combustion conundrum is that NOx emissions are a direct result of EFFICIENT combustion and particulate emissions are a result of INEFFICIENT combustion. So, that essentially means that when one reduces one pollutant, it increases the other. The early, say, 2001-2010 emission systems tended to decrease efficiency with EGR in order to reduce NOx, but at the expense of poorer fuel economy and higher particulate emissions. After about 2010, SCR became the method to reduce NOx downstream from the combustion chamber, so that EGR degrading of combustion efficiency could be lessened, which also would reduce the particulate load in the DPF. But, the simple fact is that, absent of a major change in technology, there is really no practical or efficient way to reduce diesel emissions much farther than they already are. So, the next "tier" of regulations--yes, they are coming, unless their is a change in the current Democrat Administration and Congress in the U.S.--will effectively begin to exterminate new diesel engine production in the U.S. What people don't understand is that, without diesel engines, millions upon millions of people will face starvation. Maybe that is what the leftist elites want. As an oil company executive said to me years ago, "People drive on gasoline and gasoline engines, but the economy runs on diesel fuel and diesel engines." Finally, you gave one of the best succinct descriptions of how current generation diesel emission control systems work, and why they are so expensive and trouble-prone. Thank you for that.
I agree that the regulations will get so strict that diesel engines won't be an option. If the average person could understand how clean a diesel engine runs right now I think they would be shocked. And the EPA almost feeds off the uninformed which is why they keep getting support for tighter emissions. I want clean air just as much as the next guy but there are bigger fish to fry then clean running diesels. And thank you, always a tough call about how in depth to go into this sort of stuff because it can be boring lol.
Nah I disagree, there are millions of trucks running around burning natural gas and it works just fine. Natural gas requires almost no emissions components other than a catalytic converter like every car has. At some point all the manufacturers will realize that trying to meet the more modern diesel emissions requirements is ridiculous and just switch their fleet to either natural gas or a hybrid electric setup. If it's a hybrid electric setup you could run a gasoline powered generator to recharge the batteries, or on the generator a natural gas either way there's multiple solutions.
The fines and punishment their putting against the manufacturers are for one reason only and that to completely drive them out of business. They will go up against all of them in the future just wait and watch. One thing for sure I disagree with what he said was trouble started when def came along. No the problems started when EGR’s were added to diesels. When def came into the picture it just added to the exhaust problems. It’s funny how our government can put all their efforts against fossil fuels and everything that uses it to either run on, heat homes, cook food and our electrical power companies but when it comes to wind and solar, the manufacturing of the equipment, the energy used to build the farms and most of all when they are abandoned and left standing to rott and ones torn down filling land fills. And subsidies paid for by our tax dollars and tax dollars then spent to dismantle and dispose of this junk. You think epa is looking at that? No they have blinders on.
I have deleted all emissions control on my 2016 Duramax.… EGR, DPF, everything, put a larger turbo on it with a full tune on it, including the transmission. It is lifted with 37x12 tires and I still get 21 MPG on the highway, with very little visible exhaust, even in the city, and only when accelerating hard. Fortunately for me, I live in Texas where they don't do emissions test on diesel trucks; only safety tests.
agree with previous commenter, as a Californian (I know) I figured there will be more and more restrictions on diesel trucks which lent to my decision to purchase the Ford 7.3 gasser. I know it won't hold a match to the current diesels pulling but the costs and these restrictions are just brutal to have on such a high $ investment vehicle.
I had my trucks ecm update and the only noticeable difference at this time is increased def usage. Performance and mileage appears to be normal, we’ll see how much more def is used when towing that could cost a little.
@@TexasBR549 as of now diesel is still the best option when it comes to towing. If this was a NOX issue and little more def cleans it up I guess it’s for the best. Pros outweigh the cons when it comes staying with diesel.
As an owner of a 2018 Ram 3500 with the HO cummins, I'm definitely waiting to see what happens with the 'fix' because according to my recall paperwork it looks like they're just updating software. And as you said in your video, that probably means that we're going to get similar results to the retune they did on the Ecodiesels, with significantly lowered power levels. Considering I bought my truck specifically for the HO motor I'm not interested in that sort of 'repair'
I am a complete dunce when it comes to cars and engines of any sort. Just never been my area of interest or experience. You explained everything so well that I can say I learned something today. Thank you! I'm a tiny bit less dumb from watching your video, which I can't say about many others I end up clicking on.
23 RAM 2500 new owner here. Two check engine lights already with less than 5k miles on its Cummins engine. Both CEL’s were caused by emissions equipment; the first time, the dealer replaced the particulate matter sensor. A few hundred miles later, it was determined that the DPF was faulty. I’m told it had a large crack in it. Kept thinking something was wrong because my tailpipe was getting black with soot, just like the old days. Should’ve kept my 04 Powerstroke. I’ll let them buy this RAM back for sure.
@@TheGettyAdventures thanks! The DPF was replaced. Brief but surprising regen on the drive home. 500 miles (mostly highway) later, my DPF percentage is at 0%. Not sure if that is good or bad… seems like it should be registering some level of soot.
I was thinking of the same thing, you beat me to it. 25 years ago it was Baby Diapers filling up the Land Fills. Nothing is said about all the other packaging that ends up there. Most people do not recycle. Walk in your local Chicom Walmart Wearhouse and look at all the packaged goods. 90% going to the land fill.
Great video and very interesting stuff. A couple clarifications though. 1) The EPA doesn't mandate any specific emissions technology, they just set tailpipe emissions limits. It's up to the manufacturer to choose how to get there (e.g. EGR, DPF, SCR, etc.) 2) EGR doesn't work by "reburning" the exhaust. With EGR, the exhaust gasses are recirculated to act as a diluent in the combustion process. Exhaust gas has a higher specific heat capacity than air. This allows for lower peak temperatures in combustion, reducing formation of oxides of Nitrogen. Same end result as you said, but the mechanism is a bit different.
@nicholasdoran I really appreciate how you really took the words out of my mouth...so to say. Being a former truck driver myself, I have seen so many newer semi tractors broke down on the side of the road(or sitting in the shop to be repaired). The last good tractor I drove was a 2006 International with a 450hp cummins in it backed by a 13 speed transmission. This was the last available year before the beginning of tree-hugger crap being put on the engines(pre-egr, pre-DEP, pre-everything). That truck had hardly any issues. Since then, with a total of 2 other driving jobs with newer trucks, I've been stranded on the side of the road numerous times because of stupid crap like sensors mostly. I did have one legit mechanical issue with a freightliner where the power steering pump blew out, and took the air compressor with it on a DD13 detriot. Who the hell would combine the power steering drive with an air compressor drive? (meaning sharing the same shaft)
rules for thee not for me.... not government. you mean dictatorship.... we used to have Peace officers per the constitution, they keep the peace.. now we have Police officers they arent there to keep the peace anymore they are here to POLICE us... big difference...
I think there is two take aways from your video that could help keep diesels going into the future. The first would be to better regulate the quality of diesel fuel. This in in regards to the burn/flame quality especially when some add too much bio diesel or other additives. The burn quality of the fuel would definitely affect the NOx output and may not be a fault of the truck. I worked with many cummins common rail engines that ran on JP8 and the exhaust was much cleaner with out any emissions devices. Second perhaps its time manufactures invested more time on developing low pressure EGR from after the DPF so that if the engine required more EGR it would be as soot free as possible reducing the soot load in the engine. Otherwise I think we all know its a detune for sure.
the dpf is made for the SMALLEST particles, which are the cancer causing ones. I wish that confused trauma victims wouldn't waste the internet with your ignorant comments. be quiet.
CAT was pulling EGR from after the filter. Ultimately they quit doing it, and nobody else really copied them. I think part of the problem is you’re trying to flow EGR into the intake while it’s under boost. So, you need the exhaust pressure from before the turbo to really help push it.
@@2023TMc what they need to do is throw up their middle finger to the EPA. F'em. Their expectations are unrealistic, and BS. There's no way that any manufacturer can keep meeting the ever stricter regulations that the EPA keeps throwing at them. That's like telling someone that they have to develop a 56" vertical jump or something. Not going to happen. In America the government is supposedly here to survive the people, at least that was the idea our founding fathers had. This is surviving themselves, or their interests and agendas in some fashion. They know that in 10 or 100 or 1,000 year if diesel engine are still around that the earths that going to come to an engine because of pollution, but they'll push BS narratives like global warming will make the earth flood in 10 years if we don't make dramatic changes. The only thing dumber than that is the fools who buy into it. So Cummins, Detroit, PSD, Duramax, Caterpillar, etc need to yeam up and say F the EPA, and if they push too hard, they're going to have an uprising on their hands, and they'll be very vocal as to why. What is the EPA going to do? Go to fully electric motors to power our semi's, and industrial equipment that so many things rely on?
@@TheGettyAdventures While I do think Ram and Cummins work pretty well together, with Stellantis running the show I'm always a bit skeptical about their relationship given what happened with the Cummins 5L and the fact that FCA decided to pass it up for the EcoDiesel without going back to Cummins to request a V6 or smaller I6 for the 1500. If they find that they could build heavy duty Rams cheaper by shoving another VM Motori engine under the hood of their trucks so they can run with something made inhouse I have no doubt they would. Besides the fines from the US gov, this is part of why they are trying to ditch the Hemi so badly for the Hurricane since they are using the 4 cylinder engine in a lot of their vehicles.
@@2023TMc Ford updated the emissions system programming on the Power Stroke about two years ago. I have a 2019 and the dealer sent a mobile service van to my house to perform the upgrade. Ford will not be affected. The upgrade changed the amount of DEF the truck uses. I have not noticed a change in performance or fuel usage.
Was at the dealer today for inspection. No flash for me unless Ram fixes the emissions system. Ram supplies the emissions system, Cummins supplies the engine and engine management. I've had my all in one DPF//SCR replaced twice under warranty, and it's likely shot now that I'm well over 320,000 miles. My EGR valve is stuck shut and my turbo actuator is stuck in the mid-range so I peak at 18-20psi. It still is a great truck, got 18.4mpg hand calc on a recent 1400 mile trip to Florida including putzing around for 200miles. It likely couldn't pull a golf cart up a mountain but if I needed big power I'd get it fixed. The full emissions system, EGR, Turbo, DPF/SCR need to be serviceable like that nice one block in this video. I will not give up this truck to a reflash unless someone fixes the problem, the hardware, not the software.
I live in California, have an engine light on now (2022 Ram) dealer can’t get the problem fixed. Been at dealer since September 13Th. Can’t pass smog so can’t get registered . Working on Manufacture buy back now.
Exactly, what are the other Diesel manufacturers doing with their engines??! I'm a Ram fanboy and have a 24 3500 on the way. Very disappointed to say the least with all of this. Curious to see what transpires. Great informative video as always.
I'm original owner of 2018 Ram 2500 turbo diesel. The past 6-7 months, I've had nothing but major issues with the def system/ERG/Regens/DPF you name it. I'm praying for a buyback or some compensation
I get these emissions standards are perhaps unrealistically stringent to the point of making light-duty diesel trucks not market viable, but it's pretty messed up to consciously cheat the emissions testing knowing it'll likely be found out later. Once owners get the changes made to make it compliant, they end up with a vehicle that's worse than what they originally paid for with little to no recourse.
I get what you’re saying. Fortunately, I live 20 minutes from the Cummins plant- which also means I’m in Indiana and we don’t have strict emissions laws. The real losers are the American citizens who have to comply with every little tweak the government wants to impose.
It will be interesting to hear what Cummins has to say about it or if more details come out in the epa document, since Cummins “admits no wrongdoing”. The epa allows a vehicle to be outside the limits on emissions at times depending on the circumstances, you just have to disclose the info to them. Then they decide if it’s a good enough reason. Maybe Cummins argument is that they didn’t need to disclose some info or something should’ve been part of an engine protection strategy, idk.
Evidently the EPA has become anti-diesel. Not surprising given the federal and blue states’ war on fossil fuels. There is no magic bullet for tail pipe emissions. Only another remotely polluting solution, electric vehicles.
How's it the government's fault? They set a standard that's supposed to apply to everyone, Cummings allegedly cheated... what's the government supposed to do? Allow it? Then the cheaters get a competitive advantage and suddenly nobody complies.
I have a 2020 ram with the Cummins engine,I’m not sure what to expect really. I don’t see them doing the buyback on count of it being Cummins and not ram. I’m hoping whatever they do doesn’t destroy the power of the engine nor destroy the resale value of the trucks.
This is not just a Cummins problem , dodge, fiat or stellantis has been building engines out of EPA spec for years now and if you look at the statements made by the company they would rather pay the fine than deal with the burden of redesigning all of their engines…
I've been a part of both of Rams Dieselgate allegations. I had a 2014 Ecodiesel. And now have a 2018 2500 Cummins. I've had the recall done on 1/4/24. It didn't seem to effect the truck as much as the AEM recall did for the Ecodiesel. But the second revision of that helped. So i think the Cummins one is just mapping the emissions to what they are supposed to be full time.
I currently run JET A with a lubribor additive. Many benefits like low emissions, improved power and anti gel. If it meets FAA governmental regulations, they can’t complain.
If someone decides they don't want to participate in the "fix" I assume that will mean they will never be able to have their trucks serviced at a dealer again. Also assuming dealers will be required to do what ever is required if they get it in the shop. I think that's what happened with VW.
If you take the vehicle to a dealer for any kind of service and the VIN does not show the update, the dealer will make the change during the time they have the vehicle. The manufacturer and dealer are required to make that change by the federal government.
I'd be more concerned with having registration and title problems down the road. I'd bet the EPA will mandate the manufacturers notify them as each vehicle is updated. If participation is lower than desired, something will be attached to the VIN that will prevent registration or title transfer until the manufacturer 'clears' the VIN as 'properly mitigated'. I couldn't imagine owning or repairing diesel vehicles in this day and age of extreme government ideocracy...
My personal opinion is that the guys "rolling coal" have initiated a backlash. The flip side of this is all the "loading" DPF/EGR etc. This includes gas engines. But what people dont realise that all these pollution reduction ends up with a fuel burn that has increased. The end result that typically you burn twice as much fuel for a given amount of work. How does that help the enviroment?
2016 2500 6.7 here ... Stock from factory and looking to keep it that way. Staying on top of mtce intervals and so far ive been lucky with minimal issues. Worried? Yes! I'm worried I'll be mandated to take it in and comply with whatever ecu flash is coming down the pipe. I'll ignore it for as along as i can.
Same 2016 truck as you. My recall notice went into the circular file. Just curious, why install the Banks Intake? Are you planning to lose the rest of the emissions junk?@@rickreese5794
You have a 2016 and never tuned/deleted it? Big oof. That was one of the best years to do it on prior to everything (good tuners) disappearing from the market.
I own a 2000 Dodge Ram Cummings so no issue for me, however the government needs to stay out of our Diesel engines, out of our Fuel can, out of our toilets, out of our showers heads, out of our dish washers, out of our wash machines, out of our dryers, out of our lawn mowers, out of our chain saws, etc... I have mostly old stuff because it works and lasts, like a 1986 Maytag washer and Dryer. They have required little service in 38 years and no they are NOT for sale.
1.7 Billion fine, the EPA needs to be re-organized, that's totally ridiculous and shameful! PS I'm so glad I own a 7.3L truck! Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
I'm glad I own a 2012 Ram 2500 Laramie the last year before DEF. Yes it has a DPF if it ever fails it will go along with the EGR. What I don't understand is how the EPA took over 10 years to figure out Cummins was playing tricks with the system. I've had lots of people want to buy my 2012 because of the year, no Def from the factory I won't sell it. if someone won't take no for an answer I tell them $55k not one was willing to pay that much. Yes it's less than a 2024 if someone wants to pay that I might sell it. It's my I don't want to sell it price. She's a baby 140k on the OD no rust and loaded options.
After they get their kickbacks,its likely to hire even more people to go after everyone. They keep demanding more emission controls made in large factories to cripple engine performance and make it less efficient. I'm willing to bet they cause more pollution than help it.
Most people around here are getting replacement computers for 600.00 take out the factory computer put in the replacement get the recall done and put you old computer back in the truck
It would seem best if an attorney at this time open a class action suite on behalf of consumers regarding loss of fuel mileage and power and either at individual consumers discretion accept a agreeable buy back or a settlement for said losses. It would seem like until us consumers receive a confirmation that ram is going to make a fair and agreeable amount of restitution to ram owners that ram owners do not allow vehicles to be altered. In turn forces a legal disposition to compensate ram owners instead of sweeping the bs under owners rugs
The higher Nox, came from the introduction of diesel into the DPF "Diesel Particulate Filter" to drive temperatures up to burn the forbade soot. As a result, DEF is needed to convert the NoX that was created while burning the soot in the SCR "Selective Catalytic Reduction" to a cleaner substance. All because they could see the Soot "Carbon", you know, the building block of all life as we know it in the Universe
Saving the environment one plastic jug at a time 😂. My truck won’t be going to the dealership, and if it has to I’ll be sitting in the cab the entire time.
I have 2015 3500 srw with manual 6 speed. Took it In for CA smog issue (they replaced the catalytic convertor ) didn't notice much change and water pump never leaked before or after,. Then at 130K miles turbo died. Other than that all is well uses about 1 gallon DEF per 100 gallons of diesel.
I own a 2016 Ram 3500. I got the recall notice as well but won't take my truck in to get detuned. My def system failed awhile back, the dealer said it could be one or more of three components that may need to be replaced. Cost could be upwards of $3k if they could get the parts, this was back in pandemic times. So I'm still waiting for good news meanwhile I'll have to live with a more simpler exhaust system.😀
I can only imagine the scrutiny Ford and GM are going to get now on their software. These companies can make things work, they just dod the math and assumed they'd make more money getting fined and customers would blame government regulations and keep buying their stuff anyway.
Ford made a software change to the 6.7 Power Stroke about two years ago for emissions. I have a 2019 F350, and the dealer sent their mobile service van to my house and did the update with the truck parked in my driveway. Haven't noticed either a performance or mileage change since the update.
Gm isn't worried, they deliver trucks with emission failures right from the factory. In fact you should be concerned when the check engine light ISN'T on!!!
I can’t believe it my 2017 ram 3500 dually has 15000 miles on it and it has never went into regen and it runs perfectly and it has all the bs on it completely stock I’m leaving it the way it is I’ve had about ten people asking me if I want to sell it maybe if I sold it I could get a good price for it
I had a 2000 Ford with the 7.3 powerstroke. It was unfortunately stolen from me. When I was in the market for another truck I looked at maybe buying another 7.3. Problem is of you can find one with relatively low mileage people think they have a pile of gold and want almost what I paid for my 7.3 new. I eventually bought a 22 Ford SD Tremor with a 7.3 Godzilla. The more I read about the DPF, the less I wanted one.
I got my recall notice last week. I am holding off on doing anything until I know more. I’m still emissions equipped 2018 2500. I have my doubts that politicians know how to tune a truck.
I have 2023 3500 and 2022 2500, the 2500 had the recall done late December 2022 as a smog and registration were due by 12/31/23. Along with the recall they had to replace a NOx sensor that had gone out at 38 k miles. The w/o also states that the ECU has been flashed and is "currently up to date for all emissions calibrations". I am not sure if this has anything to do with what is happening or not, but the truck runs normal with no signs of any power loss, however I did notice that the truck seems to use more DEF since I got it back. I am curious to know if anyone else has had the ECU flashed and if anything was noticed with the truck performance.
Electric cars and trucks will go the way of the DoDo Bird, will become extinct and remembered as a major farce -- and some Old Shit on capitol Hill wants to see electric cars to be the new means of transportation, what a bunch of Horse Shit...
The most informative channel on CZcams IMO. Thanks for that. Would like your take on what may happen with all the Cummings out there that are fully deleted. Could this bring all that to light and create a new mess of rules for everybody around here? (Nova Scotia)
Thank you sir! and to be honest it shocks me how many deleted trucks are out here on the east coast. In other provinces like Ontario and BC there are massive fines and witch hunts for deleted trucks. rumours has it that New Brunswick at least is going to start cracking down on deleted trucks and fining shops that work on deleted trucks.
@@TheGettyAdventures I can only assume that safety inspections won't be issued for too much longer on deleted trucks. I honestly don't know any people around here that still have any emissions gear left in their trucks. Lol. Could get expensive. Thanks again for the work you put into your channel. It 's great.
M@markseehawer, that's what I'm wondering. I have an 05 with 5.9 and very little emissions shit. I also have an 08 that doesn't use Def but does run some of its damn exhaust back through the engine. I'll be damn if I get rid of either one. 05 gets average of 18 mpg, 08 gets if I'm lucky 16 mpg.
@@stevenjackson7067 I'm concerned that my 1994 Dodge diesel will be taken away from me and scrapped. Back then there were no emission systems added. My truck is well a maintained truck with a whole new fuel system in it. It gets about 18 mpg city And about 22 mpg highway. of course it depends on how I drive it. I always find it interesting that we always talk about ratios of out puts but we never talk about valumes. Case in point, VW had higher than aditted ratios of CO2 and NOX BUt there cars got 60+ mpg. So there total volume by mile was lower or on par with there cometitors. this should matter. This is the same with Cumins Reprograming these engines will bring the ratio down but volumes of NOX and CO2 will go up. Why because they are detuned and you now push harder on the peddle to get the same performance.
I have learned so much from your videos, and saved myself a lot of money and grief! I’ll be hanging on to my old reliable 2006 Dodge Cummins as long as possible. It has never let me down in 18 years and still runs amazing. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights.
I’m sure if you don’t get the recall they won’t let you renew your license plates which in my state requires an emissions test. I sold my 2017 ram 3500 with a 105,000 miles last summer. It was an awesome truck. I have a 2004 dodge 3500 6 speed that I’ll never sell now.
No requirement in any of the states around me to have the recall completed to renew registration and no emissions testing (for these trucks anyway) in any of those states either.
I don’t know why everyone gripes about emissions… It doesn’t make that much difference and we prove to the environmental community that we innovate our way to a cleaner planet. Everyone who “loses” their emissions equipment in a “boating” accident just hurts all the rest of us.
Funny thing is, Cummins gets the fine when it was all Dodges fault. Cummins makes the engine, Dodge makes everything else, I.e. Ecm, exhaust, wiring harness. If it was Cummins fault, why wouldn’t Cummins be responsible for doing the ECM flash? Because the didn’t make the software and ram is the ones who did.
I would of think the aftertreatment system would be a cummins deal seeing that it would be apart of the powertrain. at least on the commercial side if a freightliner has a cummins engine, all the aftertreatment is also cummins made and control through their own ECU. could be different on the pick up trucks.
Egr is not reburning anything. It brings inert exhaust into the combustion chamber. To effectively reduce the combustion area. Making the engine function like it has smaller displacement.
Very informative Alex. I appreciate the clear explanation of all the emission components and their purposes. Showing the Cat loader exhaust & the tail pipe of the truck runnind was a great example!
heres an answer,,every one ignores,,because it doesnt involve gas / petrol. ausie.. LPG, PRODUCES NOTHING.. ALL ENGINES CAN RUN ON IT.. ITS A WASTE PRODUCT, USED IN THE PRODUCTION OF ELECTRICITY.. HERE IN AUS, WE SELL IT, DELIVER IT, TO SINGAPORE ECT, FOR 9C LT.. WAKE THE FK UP.. @@TheGettyAdventures
I have a 2014 ram 2500 cummings 6.7 I got the recall,why would I take to dealer,I already had to clean the egr valve,change both 02 aensors,def injector, what next? If took to dealer not only would it have cost me money I don't have I would have lost my ability to use my truck for work,intern loose everthing,no truck no money to pay bills,can't afford to own my ram 2500. This recall is a stab in my life.
The EPA is out hunting I'll be sticking with the 5.9 nobody will be forcing me to install emissions equipment on my 32 year old(1992) 12 valve Cummins. Looking to get an 03 or early 04 CR 5.9 next to her in the driveway.
The VW issue was basically a "lean burn" at freeway speeds to get better rmileage. Lean is hotter combustion which means more NOX. The fix for Cummins will probably involve more fuel at some points in the power curve - less milage but should not reduce power.
Diesel combustion is typically very high temperature which = high NoX. The control for that is EGR and SCR/DEF. A lot of EGR makes for a dirty intake (more maintenance)and hurts fuel mpg. IDK if VW was making use of DEF(adblue) during the affected years, but that would’ve been another maintenance item. Anyway, if they reduced the egr (effectively increasing available oxygen) that would improve efficiency of the burn but also increased NoX. I would guess they masked, skewed or disabled any NoX sensor(s) as well. I could see DEF use increasing and possibly fuel use on the affected Cummins trucks. I suspect they’ll go towards increased DEF use, but we’ll see.
My understanding with VW was if the steering wheel was still then the emissions system would comply (eg during a test) but if the there was movement in the steering, as in normal driving, the program changed giving more performance, and emissions became a secondary concern.
Seen all this coming long ago and bought a 97 which is pre diesel smog hear in California. Also all my gas cars and trucks are 76 or older for pre gas emissions.
The 12 valve Cummins was a great reliable engine. I drive an 86 F-250 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, very reliable, maybe too slow to today`s standards. Too bad, I still get there. Also drive Mercedes Diesel`s out of the 80`s. DD is a 82 240D, a 80 240D and a 85 300 Turbo Diesel. reliable and simple. My zero to 60 is eventually, and I catch the big guys at the next red light....LOL
I’ve read every comment in this thread and no one has mentioned that this is a ‘’RULE’’ not a law. These RULES are being made by non elected civil service government employees, with political biases, even though our legislators have given these agencies the power to make these rules, where is it allowed that a non elected agency can make these rules that can be enforced like laws with criminal penalties and not being responsible to the voter. Most if not all government agencies are making these rules and enforcing them with criminal penalties. OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO VOTE ON WHO MAKES LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN SOLD DOWN THE DRAIN BY OUR POLITICIANS . ONLY DULY ELECTED LEGISLATORS CAN MAKE LAWS. WE THE PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE FOR ANY OF THESE PEOPLE.
Im in ontario still havent got my letter for my 2018 but honestly just going to use it to start the fire in my wood burning stove since those “parts” fell off while driving
Love my 5.9 '07 mega cab. (Born Dec. '06) Was tempted a few times to upgrade to newer vehicle. Never did because of emissions on newer rigs. So glad I never did
New diesels are like having a hot girlfriend, nice to look at, fun to ride but a big PITA to deal with. That old truck you had is like the wholesale girl next door. Attractive, reliable, used but not abused. And she’s only half the price on date night.
You can get an ISB 6.7 at 300hp 800lbft. A common school bus spec is 280hp, company I work for has 6 with that spec one at 250hp(white activity buses). That 30hp makes a world of difference at highway speed with a load on. That 30hp is 75lbft and after all of the manipulation(transmission and axle) you can feel the difference. Just like the 350hp L9s vs the 410hp X12. L9 is in a 35ft coach(42k max gross) and the X12s are in 45ft coach(56k gross, 42k empty) that extra 60hp is mote like 450lbft more(L9 are 1100lbft, X12 is 1550lbft) neither holds a candle to the Volvo D13s(435hp/1650lbft) or the 2008 CAT C13s in the fleet, these are the 450hp/1700lbft with a million original KMs on the clock.
The fact that Cummins didn’t fight this makes me never want to buy one of these engines. As an American I apologize for the EPA. Hopefully after the next election we can get them under control.
Next, they're going after the owners of the engines, they're also putting lock out devices to where you can't adjust anything on the engine computer. So anybody that has a deleted truck will eventually be facing fines and possible jail time.
I did a ton (2 years) of research prior to purchasing my 2021 Chevrolet 3500 L5P Duramax new in Jan 2021. I eliminated Ford right away due to the CP4 and several other known issues (death wobble, upper pan gasket leaks, Fords history building absolute junk) plus as a retired mechanic my career long dislike of Ford based on my experience with them in general. I dismissed RAM because just about everything about the truck except the engine is garbage with a dress on. The 68RFE being one big reason also. My Chevy may prove to be a disaster, time will tell but so far I love it. Tows our 13,000 fifth wheel like a dream and gets decent fuel mileage. As a mechanic I have never been a big fan of any vehicle made in the USA but I needed an HD truck for towing our RV thus the Chevy. If Toyota made a HD diesel truck that is what I would be driving.
I have a 92 Dodge one ton cummins, I'm the original owner and it has very low miles. Now I know why everyone wants to buy it. Thank you for a very informative video.
I received notice via email today from FCA on my now traded 2022 RAM 3500 Cummins HO. The notice stated it is under recall for Particulate Matter Sensor. The notice states “The Particulate Matter Sensor and Module may not have been installed during the manufacturing process.” It goes on to say that the dealer will inspect and if necessary install the Particulate Matter (PM) Sensor and module, reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) and attach an authorized modifications label. I happen to know when my truck was in a couple weeks ago, these parts were ordered for my truck and I was told it would take a month to get them so my truck did not have them. Don’t know the impact but glad I am clear of this mess.
That sensor was not available at the time of manufacturing. I've a 2022 RAM 2500, and my dealer installed this sensor last Fall. No different behavior of the truck, all good.
Check out the fuel injectors on the GE90-115 turbo fan engine. They are 3d printed in metal to get some very different spray patterns. GE was able to drastically reduce nox largely because of these injectors. JP8 is basically diesel. I have faith that engine manufacturers can innovate.
Would it be the VB6 recall? I had mine done 1yr ago and they swap back to cp3 as well free of charge.If it is, i didnt notice any difference in power or mileage but maybe used a little bit more def fluid . my exhuast system fell off recently 😉.
Whenever I replace sensors (and sometimes the whole engine) I think about how many non-emissions engines run just to make all the replacement components that constantly fail Non-emissions engines that will last for millions of miles and tens of thousands of hours with basic maintenance
Great explanation of the modern diesel Alex! I've been driving truck now for 30yrs.I remember having a Series 50 350hp in a Freightliner, fantastic engine but man,in the winter, you'd get lost in the smoke!! Unreal. Unfortunately manufacturers had to do something, these engines were heavy polluters.I think most manufacturers have the emissions systems finetuned ,if Cummins is doing something illegal then they need to be held accountable. My son has one of these things,big exhaust, blah blah blah, smokes like a chimney.You get the picture 😂
Haha the old Detroit Diesels like to smoke! And to be honest workjng around diesels everyday it makes life as a mechanic much better. These modern emission systems run so clean. Hopefully cummins didn't cross the line too far
For all the people claiming Ford and GM will be affected, Ford made an emissions programming change to the Power Stroke about two years ago. The dealer sent a mobile service van to my house and the techs did the programming change to the vehicle while it was parked in my driveway. My understanding was the change had to do with DEF use. I have not noticed a change in performance or fuel mileage.
Everytime I come across a video or an article addressing this I arrive at the same conclusion. That making engines with less horsepower is the obvious solution. You even said it in the video - the same engine platform used in a different application has an easier time meeting emissions regulaitions (regardless if you find them necessary or warranted) I can hardly blame the manufacturer, they are in the business of making things people want to buy and when people want 400+ horsepower in their grocery getter they have no other option but to make it. Nobody wants to be the first one to offer less power than the outgoing model, because a journo will get a press car and make a multi-million view video on CZcams titled - don't buy it, its slow. I never understood why it was acceptable for a truck this size to make 200-250 horsepower 30 years ago but nowadays nobody would even consider buying such a vehicle as it would become the butt of every automotive journalist's joke. Marketing departments of car companies run them against the wall with no option to get out by convincing everyone that a truck that's going to spend vast majority of their time with an empty bed and occasionally a car transporter behind it needs 400 horse. And the worst part is that engineers are getting blamed for trying to work with what they've got by making decisions that ultimately lead to pre-mature death of every single one of these power units. Horsepower wars and automotive journalists are the real source of the problem. A Toyota Hilux sold in Australia or Europe makes less than 200 horse. And the owners will tell you it's perfectly fine.
Couldn’t agree more. My old 1979 Chevy crew cab made a disappointing 170 hp( probably an exaggeration) . Got the job done on my farm for 18 years. My current truck has a 5.3 l - 330 hp gas engine, and it’s just nuts how that thing will go. Way more power than it needs. Just dumb in my estimation!
Yes David , I hear you. I need horsepower on my farm as well, just to get my crops out of the field and into the grain terminals. I own two tractors , a 175 hp air cooled diesel , a 550 hp 4 wd , seeding tractor , and two 500 hp tandem axle grain trucks. Horse power has always been wonderful, if and when you need it. However, I also believe in the adage . “As much as needed- no more than required”. I don’t need 330 hp to chase parts, but that seems to be where auto manufactures are taking us. I enjoyed your reply . Cheers!
@@davidsimpson3744 do you tow 40 thousand pounds behind your diesel truck? no? then what kind of fucking work you do that you where 400+ horse works hard?
My question is what exactly EPA does with this money?
Prostitute's and black jack?
Bingo PAL 🤔💯💩
EPA is far from a constitutionally recognized agency
They buy beach houses
Pour it into EV "trucks"? 🤣
As a school bus mechanic I can confirm the difference in power between the generations of Cummins engines is astounding. The older ones without EGR, DPF and/or DEF have lasted a lot longer and have put out much better power figures compared to newer generations. The older ones we still have running do put out some soot but not an immense amount compared to the older International/Navistar and CAT powered busses. We're even having a new problem with a few newer Cummins powered busses where the ECM is throwing a Check Engine light for Random Missfire codes that has required an update to the protocols and calibration from Cummins, but they can't fix it until they get approval from the EPA. So now, we've got these brand new, low mileage (less than 10k miles), $4-500k school busses that we can't even run. It's sad to see the state of diesel motors in the current generation.
In 08 I wanted to purchase a truck that would last me the rest of my life needs. I bought the last year of the 5.9 HO Cummins in my 06 Ram. The more I see with the mess that politicians are creating, the more I am happy with the choice of purchase I made. Sad state of what is going on in the diesel industry. Why doesn't anybody start telling the "complete truth" about diesel and try to erase the bad name that environmentalists want to narrate on them? There are a lot of interesting facts that need to be considered by everyone before we brand diesel as that bad boy engine that the EPA is trying to brand them with. They take the worst facts as propaganda and conveniently leave out the rest of the facts that apply directly to the matter at hand, thus creating a false narrative.
I disagree with the false narrative argument. Look, if the state to the north of you was dumping raw sewage into the river where you draw your water, would that be ok with you? Hell no, and that is essentially what these cheaters are doing with these motors. They don’t want to take the time to engineer proper exhaust scrubbing, which isn’t that difficult. I guarantee you they will now and we’ll get the power back with low emissions lickity split. The gas guys did it and the diesel teams will too
@gpenrod5221 100% doesn't it sound like politics? What you're saying is what's going on in our country currently.. sad😢
@@gpenrod5221 it sucks that it's easier for the government to target automobiles rather than airplanes and big companies that are emitting significantly more emissions. and all this emissions stuff just means higher costs to the consumer. think about what the fines are doing to do.
The Ford 7.3 gasoline engine is making its way into many new school busses. Sad, we are going back to gasoline.
Lost all my emission equipment in a boating accident
Its funny how many guys bring their emission systems on boating trips and get into an accident. Got to be more careful.
RIP to all the guns and emissions equipment lost in boating accidents.
Abolish the ATF and EPA
me too
@@TheKlamminatorpreach
Working as a parts man in a Mercedes Benz dealership, we are going thru this with the sprinter diesel vans and sport utility trucks. Replacing dpf , scr, and egr valves and software update. No client is happy when getting back, less power, running like crap, and check engine light on within 500 miles after getting back.
Thats the modern diesel engine in a nut shell unfortunately right now. I work on check engine light after check engine light
I do driveaway delivery of new plow trucks and when we deliver them there is most times a check engine light on. That's the first thing we are asked, "is the check engine light on". If it's not it's like, why not ?
Yes, My Sprinter has had all of what you described. I DO love that van though.
Well most of these auto makers don’t build their own diesel engines. It’s going to be interesting 😮
@@TheGettyAdventures Well, it was invented by a French guy, so all the crap would come out in the wash eventually. The EPA is gonna make sure there's no rolling coal to dirty the white surrender flags. Next up, diesels running on freedom fries oil.
🤣
I have a feeling a vast majority of these trucks may not come back for the update.
I'm expecting the same lol
But you could be forced to get or not be able to renew registration at the DMV
@@davidj2874how do you think people with deleted trucks are getting registrations?……….
Or resale. They got you by the balls one way or the other.
Mine won't be going in for the update until I hear how the update affected the truck.
My favorite part about being a diesel mechanic for almost 15 years was getting the hell out of the field in 2015. Stuff was changing so fast from 2006-2012 every manufacturer was turning out untested rigged up junk. Even worse for me I was at International so our house engines were extra sketchy crap.
Makes me think of the bad stuff that got invented in the 1970s and 1980s for street legal gasoline engines in the USA.
My dad did experience 2 of them, a 1979 Toyota Corolla with a cat meltdown, and a 1987 Hyundai Excel with a complex O2 sensor carb failing.
yea buying the cheap car never pays off we got the 85 supra 5mge still runs fine but i trying tell dad buy the best just get it used but nooo lol .to me best daily driver car is300 2005 back or sc300 1999 back got 260k on the original 2jz belts and just did brushes in alternator before it failed it needed it 8 bucks and grease bearings good for 150k more all belts and suspension bushing/struts [KYB brand only rest are junk] soon to be done all at the same time no here n their crap that why folk say it 100 dollars you to death fix it right and once @@skylinefever
@@overbuiltautomotive1299 Back then, how much did you have to spend to get a trouble free smog engine?
I think about how at the time my dad had a 1987 Hyundai Excel, my mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. The engine and robot voice chip were fine. The rest of that car was an electrical glitch fest.
@@overbuiltautomotive1299 sometimes it does, mrs picked up an 07 GS460, needed a tensioner and plugs/throttlebody cleanout and it was mint. ABS module wasn't torqued properly so the brake lines leaked, easy fix during test drive lol. Poor guy sold the car so cheap he had no idea how to fix it.
ALso did new front adaptive shocks, rides like a new car, gorgeous piece of kit for way too cheap. Rather have it over a new car worth 4x as much these days.. they are not even close in quality and ride comfort, speed, reliability.
To this day (2-3 years later) it was the cheapest one ever sold in my country lol.
Ford has already addressed the “nox” issue by increasing the def usage. My 2023 super duty with the high output 6.7 has a 7.5 gallon def tank and it does go thru it faster than the 2022, however the EGR is smaller and “supposedly” it reintroduces less gasses back into the engine for reburn. That is a trade off I will gladly take. The government could make it easier on diesel manufacturers by mandating a 55 plus cetane rating on diesel fuel sold at the pump but they would rather burden auto manufacturers. The higher cetane would help ensure a complete burn of fuel thereby reducing emissions and soot.
I traded up my RAM Gen2 Ecodiesel to Gen3 Ecodiesel largely because of the engine improvements. One big one being the EGR moved downstream of the DPF.
They all need to go duel fuel add propane Problem solved get rid of the Def and the other stuff
55 cetane diesel would likely cost too much for consumers and might lack backwards compatibility with older engines.
Yes, and cost us more money at the pump.
@@treeamigo8447 Either way it costs to be the boss. You want a diesel ? Then be prepared to pay for more expensive fuel, def , oil and filter changes and fuel additives. If not then just get a gas engine and watch the big boys pass you by.
Two easy fixes here. Any diesel truck you buy be sure to purchase the longest factory warranty you can get and then sell it at the end of the coverage. The other is if you are fortunate enough to know a really competent diesel mechanic, stop taking your truck to the dealer.
Bingo PAL 😊
The EPA requires it the owners and manufacturers don't want the crap on there so that means the EPA should be responsible for the crap. My thoughts are if I don't want it it's not gonna be there!
I paid cash for my truck years ago but couldn't do that now. I don't have or want a car/truck payment. After I bought my truck (2019) its value increased considerably due to covid, the economy or politics. Bottom line I can't afford it!
factory warrenties,,worth sht.. tell them, i buy, you never see me again,, its cheaper, as they dont do sht..
@@trolingertrucking9591there are also three particular politicians who are getting filthy rich off these particulate filters. That's why it is mandatory.
Even though Cummins has acted contrary to the regulators in the industry, I get a feeling Cummins won't be vilified in terms of public perception, like VW was when they got caught. These latest EPA ratings have become the bane of all manufacturer's existence these days.
Excellent post, oblowzo and
doj did a real hatchet job on
VW, same attitude today w/Ol jo🤷🏿♂️
VW should sue the Extreme Piss-head ASSocoation for egregious legislation.
Of course they won't, as everyone's afraid of these $$$mall minded tyrant$$$.
ABOUT TIME the EPA was drug down to reality...
My teacher in HS had a vw dieselgate car in 2015-16, it got around 50mpg she said and was great and I remember her being so pissed when she had to give the car back.
@@rickreese5794 And oblowzo, the puppet with the stick is his ass, allowed banned dispersant to pollute the coastline for generations...
BP? Slap on the wrist.😡🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
@@jake_of_the_jungle9840No one "had to" "give" it back. My dad had a 2012 Passat tdi, thibg was awesome, averaged 40mpg in mostly town driving. The owners had 3 options if i recall correctly. 1, vw buys back your car. 2, vw installs updated exhaust/emissions equipment and pays you $7500 if my memory is correct. 3, you the owner take no action and continue driving car as is. I don't remember if you were eligible for money if you went the 3rd route. This was in state of MA. My dad got top trim model i think for 32k and vw paid him 28k as buyback. So he got 4-5 years out of the car, probably at least 60k miles, at average cost of 1,000 ish a year, as far as vehicle value loss/depreciation. The deal was too good for him to turn down.
@The Getty Adventures.
I live in California, USA. I received my recall notice on Friday, 5 January, 2024. I am going to quote from me exact notice; "The engine control software in your vehicle must be updated with an upgraded calibration as required by the US Environmental Agency and the California Air Resource Board for better emissions performance. FCA will repair your truck free of charge. To do this, your dealership will reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM)."
It sounds like they are just going to de-tune the engine much like with the EcoDiesel.
Unfortunately, I live in CA so this recall is not optional for me. I have to do this for future registration, SMOG certifications will require a certificate to pass.
Wow! Thank you for the information. So it does look like they're going to go for the de-tuned route. I mean hopefully its not that noticeable but I would imagine there may be some type of performance loss.
It won't detune, it just increases DEF usage. The 2019s got the update via recall VB6 and the 2020+ trucks had it from the factory, including the power increase in 2021.
@@TheGettyAdventures
Yeah. The unfortunate thing is I would my truck 3 months ago. It has really become one thing after another.
I will look at OBD tuners after a few months, those will most likely be able to bring performance numbers back up.
@anthonysherman6269 I agree. I know most owners will just return the power the fun way! 👉🏾🥳
Ouch
My only real concern is what (if any) modifications are going to be required on existing trucks. When RAM adjusted the Eco Diesel to meet the new emissions standards, it changed the performance negatively. I will be curious to see what happens and what you think of the changes that will certainly be coming for the existing trucks.
Exactly, I think there is probably going to be some dip in performance and hopefully we'll find out what exactly happened here soon.
There’s an emissions related recall out on the Ram website already for many of the affected trucks. For the 2013-18’s it’s just a software update. So far, the few that have had it done and reported results haven’t noticed any significant changes. None that I’ve read about have had the update very long or aftermarket monitoring to really give a good report, though, in my opinion.
Guaranteed it will lower performance and probably fuel mileage!
they want you to buy an ev,, & really fk up the earth.. as there bs..
It's the same thing regular engines went through in the 70's when EPA started making more and more demands on the emissions and manufactures were compelled to do things that might not have been the best answer overall, but it met the criteria. I remember when my dad bought a 73 Plymouth car with a huge 440 engine in it. For an engine that big you would expect a lot of performance. We were always disappointed in how little power it actually produced. It was detuned with low compression, tons of emissions controls, etc. Sounds a whole lot exactly like what diesel engines are going through now.
Side comment. I was reading back 2-3 or so years ago how Bosch was experimenting with some different computers and sensors, mixed with their injectors and such and in theory they could create a diesel engine injection system that had more power, far less emissions devices on it and yet would meet the emissions standards set out. I thought then and still wish for something like that to happen, but from past history, I don't see the best answers winning out unfortunately.
Great video. I love my RAM 2500 with the 6.7. It’s my first diesel and I don’t know if I’d want to tow with anything else again. That being said, I was already paranoid about the emissions system. This isn’t helping. I’ll just wait and see what happens. The cost of replacing a truck today is unreasonable, putting a lot of us between a rock and a hard place.
Diesels tow very well for sure, but it does look like there will simply be a recall. Hopefully not taking away any power.
It’s all about the intended goal of getting these engines off the road.
I would not take it to the recall
I have 560K on my 18 3500. In order to keep the system runnng you need to use Lucas DEF cleaner once every 10K miles. Dont run errands with the truck. It needs to be used warm and run hard with trailers or weight to burn off the crap. At 400K the system needed work, but. If you keep the DPF filter clean you will not have problems.
@@cookiedough5374Lucas def cleaner? Is it a def additive?
The entire goal of the EPA is to eliminate the diesel engine in most vehicles. Their goal is totally ridiculous and will eventually destroy the economy, but nobody ever said that environmentalist radicals are logical. The post-2007 regs are a classic example of the government imposing onerous, impractical, and expensive emission requirements to make only minimal additional reductions in emissions from the prior "tiers." The basic combustion conundrum is that NOx emissions are a direct result of EFFICIENT combustion and particulate emissions are a result of INEFFICIENT combustion. So, that essentially means that when one reduces one pollutant, it increases the other. The early, say, 2001-2010 emission systems tended to decrease efficiency with EGR in order to reduce NOx, but at the expense of poorer fuel economy and higher particulate emissions. After about 2010, SCR became the method to reduce NOx downstream from the combustion chamber, so that EGR degrading of combustion efficiency could be lessened, which also would reduce the particulate load in the DPF. But, the simple fact is that, absent of a major change in technology, there is really no practical or efficient way to reduce diesel emissions much farther than they already are. So, the next "tier" of regulations--yes, they are coming, unless their is a change in the current Democrat Administration and Congress in the U.S.--will effectively begin to exterminate new diesel engine production in the U.S. What people don't understand is that, without diesel engines, millions upon millions of people will face starvation. Maybe that is what the leftist elites want. As an oil company executive said to me years ago, "People drive on gasoline and gasoline engines, but the economy runs on diesel fuel and diesel engines." Finally, you gave one of the best succinct descriptions of how current generation diesel emission control systems work, and why they are so expensive and trouble-prone. Thank you for that.
I agree that the regulations will get so strict that diesel engines won't be an option. If the average person could understand how clean a diesel engine runs right now I think they would be shocked. And the EPA almost feeds off the uninformed which is why they keep getting support for tighter emissions. I want clean air just as much as the next guy but there are bigger fish to fry then clean running diesels. And thank you, always a tough call about how in depth to go into this sort of stuff because it can be boring lol.
Nah I disagree, there are millions of trucks running around burning natural gas and it works just fine. Natural gas requires almost no emissions components other than a catalytic converter like every car has. At some point all the manufacturers will realize that trying to meet the more modern diesel emissions requirements is ridiculous and just switch their fleet to either natural gas or a hybrid electric setup.
If it's a hybrid electric setup you could run a gasoline powered generator to recharge the batteries, or on the generator a natural gas either way there's multiple solutions.
The fines and punishment their putting against the manufacturers are for one reason only and that to completely drive them out of business. They will go up against all of them in the future just wait and watch. One thing for sure I disagree with what he said was trouble started when def came along. No the problems started when EGR’s were added to diesels. When def came into the picture it just added to the exhaust problems. It’s funny how our government can put all their efforts against fossil fuels and everything that uses it to either run on, heat homes, cook food and our electrical power companies but when it comes to wind and solar, the manufacturing of the equipment, the energy used to build the farms and most of all when they are abandoned and left standing to rott and ones torn down filling land fills. And subsidies paid for by our tax dollars and tax dollars then spent to dismantle and dispose of this junk. You think epa is looking at that? No they have blinders on.
@@lustfulvenganceto bad natraul gas burns like half as powerful as diesel
@@lustfulvenganceToo bad they have been going after natural gas also, it's still fossil fuel.
I have deleted all emissions control on my 2016 Duramax.… EGR, DPF, everything, put a larger turbo on it with a full tune on it, including the transmission. It is lifted with 37x12 tires and I still get 21 MPG on the highway, with very little visible exhaust, even in the city, and only when accelerating hard. Fortunately for me, I live in Texas where they don't do emissions test on diesel trucks; only safety tests.
agree with previous commenter, as a Californian (I know) I figured there will be more and more restrictions on diesel trucks which lent to my decision to purchase the Ford 7.3 gasser. I know it won't hold a match to the current diesels pulling but the costs and these restrictions are just brutal to have on such a high $ investment vehicle.
I lost my emissions system somewhere. Never did find it. I plan on running this truck until I retire. Wish me luck.
I had my trucks ecm update and the only noticeable difference at this time is increased def usage. Performance and mileage appears to be normal, we’ll see how much more def is used when towing that could cost a little.
Mine was updated as well and certainly seeing an increase in DEF usage.
Thank you sir! good to know.
Watch a video about new diesel powered using a lot more DEF than older DEF equipped trucks. A lot more DEF.
That’s what I hypothesized was going to happen. Probably the best outcome
@@TexasBR549 as of now diesel is still the best option when it comes to towing. If this was a NOX issue and little more def cleans it up I guess it’s for the best. Pros outweigh the cons when it comes staying with diesel.
As an owner of a 2018 Ram 3500 with the HO cummins, I'm definitely waiting to see what happens with the 'fix' because according to my recall paperwork it looks like they're just updating software. And as you said in your video, that probably means that we're going to get similar results to the retune they did on the Ecodiesels, with significantly lowered power levels. Considering I bought my truck specifically for the HO motor I'm not interested in that sort of 'repair'
I am a complete dunce when it comes to cars and engines of any sort. Just never been my area of interest or experience. You explained everything so well that I can say I learned something today. Thank you! I'm a tiny bit less dumb from watching your video, which I can't say about many others I end up clicking on.
Abolish the EPA.
23 RAM 2500 new owner here. Two check engine lights already with less than 5k miles on its Cummins engine. Both CEL’s were caused by emissions equipment; the first time, the dealer replaced the particulate matter sensor. A few hundred miles later, it was determined that the DPF was faulty. I’m told it had a large crack in it. Kept thinking something was wrong because my tailpipe was getting black with soot, just like the old days. Should’ve kept my 04 Powerstroke. I’ll let them buy this RAM back for sure.
If soot is on the tailpipe the DPF was forsure faulty. hopefully they can fix her up for you without much issue.
@@TheGettyAdventures thanks! The DPF was replaced. Brief but surprising regen on the drive home. 500 miles (mostly highway) later, my DPF percentage is at 0%. Not sure if that is good or bad… seems like it should be registering some level of soot.
I just keep thinking about all of the plastic jugs that are being added to the landfills because of the DEF packaging.
I was thinking of the same thing, you beat me to it.
25 years ago it was Baby Diapers filling up the Land Fills.
Nothing is said about all the other packaging that ends up there.
Most people do not recycle.
Walk in your local Chicom Walmart Wearhouse and look at all the packaged goods. 90% going to the land fill.
Great video and very interesting stuff. A couple clarifications though. 1) The EPA doesn't mandate any specific emissions technology, they just set tailpipe emissions limits. It's up to the manufacturer to choose how to get there (e.g. EGR, DPF, SCR, etc.) 2) EGR doesn't work by "reburning" the exhaust. With EGR, the exhaust gasses are recirculated to act as a diluent in the combustion process. Exhaust gas has a higher specific heat capacity than air. This allows for lower peak temperatures in combustion, reducing formation of oxides of Nitrogen. Same end result as you said, but the mechanism is a bit different.
@nicholasdoran
I really appreciate how you really took the words out of my mouth...so to say. Being a former truck driver myself, I have seen so many newer semi tractors broke down on the side of the road(or sitting in the shop to be repaired). The last good tractor I drove was a 2006 International with a 450hp cummins in it backed by a 13 speed transmission. This was the last available year before the beginning of tree-hugger crap being put on the engines(pre-egr, pre-DEP, pre-everything). That truck had hardly any issues. Since then, with a total of 2 other driving jobs with newer trucks, I've been stranded on the side of the road numerous times because of stupid crap like sensors mostly. I did have one legit mechanical issue with a freightliner where the power steering pump blew out, and took the air compressor with it on a DD13 detriot. Who the hell would combine the power steering drive with an air compressor drive? (meaning sharing the same shaft)
Is this the same government that doesn't use the dpf/scr systems on milspec equipment?
yes sir!
rules for thee not for me.... not government. you mean dictatorship.... we used to have Peace officers per the constitution, they keep the peace.. now we have Police officers they arent there to keep the peace anymore they are here to POLICE us... big difference...
I think there is two take aways from your video that could help keep diesels going into the future. The first would be to better regulate the quality of diesel fuel. This in in regards to the burn/flame quality especially when some add too much bio diesel or other additives. The burn quality of the fuel would definitely affect the NOx output and may not be a fault of the truck. I worked with many cummins common rail engines that ran on JP8 and the exhaust was much cleaner with out any emissions devices. Second perhaps its time manufactures invested more time on developing low pressure EGR from after the DPF so that if the engine required more EGR it would be as soot free as possible reducing the soot load in the engine. Otherwise I think we all know its a detune for sure.
the dpf is made for the SMALLEST particles, which are the cancer causing ones. I wish that confused trauma victims wouldn't waste the internet with your ignorant comments. be quiet.
CAT was pulling EGR from after the filter. Ultimately they quit doing it, and nobody else really copied them. I think part of the problem is you’re trying to flow EGR into the intake while it’s under boost. So, you need the exhaust pressure from before the turbo to really help push it.
Ram and Cummins will stay together--there's no way Ram wasn't already aware. But how did this escape notice in places like California for so long?
I would agree. I think they benefit from each other greatly. And yes 10 years in such strict emission times is wild
Cummins is only the first. Powerstroke and duramaxs will be next.
@@2023TMc what they need to do is throw up their middle finger to the EPA. F'em. Their expectations are unrealistic, and BS. There's no way that any manufacturer can keep meeting the ever stricter regulations that the EPA keeps throwing at them. That's like telling someone that they have to develop a 56" vertical jump or something. Not going to happen. In America the government is supposedly here to survive the people, at least that was the idea our founding fathers had. This is surviving themselves, or their interests and agendas in some fashion. They know that in 10 or 100 or 1,000 year if diesel engine are still around that the earths that going to come to an engine because of pollution, but they'll push BS narratives like global warming will make the earth flood in 10 years if we don't make dramatic changes. The only thing dumber than that is the fools who buy into it. So Cummins, Detroit, PSD, Duramax, Caterpillar, etc need to yeam up and say F the EPA, and if they push too hard, they're going to have an uprising on their hands, and they'll be very vocal as to why. What is the EPA going to do? Go to fully electric motors to power our semi's, and industrial equipment that so many things rely on?
@@TheGettyAdventures While I do think Ram and Cummins work pretty well together, with Stellantis running the show I'm always a bit skeptical about their relationship given what happened with the Cummins 5L and the fact that FCA decided to pass it up for the EcoDiesel without going back to Cummins to request a V6 or smaller I6 for the 1500. If they find that they could build heavy duty Rams cheaper by shoving another VM Motori engine under the hood of their trucks so they can run with something made inhouse I have no doubt they would. Besides the fines from the US gov, this is part of why they are trying to ditch the Hemi so badly for the Hurricane since they are using the 4 cylinder engine in a lot of their vehicles.
@@2023TMc Ford updated the emissions system programming on the Power Stroke about two years ago. I have a 2019 and the dealer sent a mobile service van to my house to perform the upgrade. Ford will not be affected. The upgrade changed the amount of DEF the truck uses. I have not noticed a change in performance or fuel usage.
Was at the dealer today for inspection. No flash for me unless Ram fixes the emissions system. Ram supplies the emissions system, Cummins supplies the engine and engine management. I've had my all in one DPF//SCR replaced twice under warranty, and it's likely shot now that I'm well over 320,000 miles. My EGR valve is stuck shut and my turbo actuator is stuck in the mid-range so I peak at 18-20psi. It still is a great truck, got 18.4mpg hand calc on a recent 1400 mile trip to Florida including putzing around for 200miles. It likely couldn't pull a golf cart up a mountain but if I needed big power I'd get it fixed.
The full emissions system, EGR, Turbo, DPF/SCR need to be serviceable like that nice one block in this video. I will not give up this truck to a reflash unless someone fixes the problem, the hardware, not the software.
I am not able to get the update because the emissions system in mine is no longer available
lol lost in a boating accident??
@@TheGettyAdventures I think it went missing after a group of emissions thieves ransacked my neighborhood.
And you won’t get your plates renewed. I guess your truck will become a big paperweight sitting in your driveway.
@@skoffco that’s not a problem where I stay kiddo
Kiddo? Really….i haven’t heard that word used in 65 years🤣@@JackMehoff-iq5he
I live in California, have an engine light on now (2022 Ram) dealer can’t get the problem fixed. Been at dealer since September 13Th. Can’t pass smog so can’t get registered . Working on Manufacture buy back now.
Exactly, what are the other Diesel manufacturers doing with their engines??! I'm a Ram fanboy and have a 24 3500 on the way. Very disappointed to say the least with all of this. Curious to see what transpires. Great informative video as always.
Not cheating, it seems, at least, not yet.
I'm original owner of 2018 Ram 2500 turbo diesel. The past 6-7 months, I've had nothing but major issues with the def system/ERG/Regens/DPF you name it. I'm praying for a buyback or some compensation
Class action was filed by the same law firm that went after vw.
My 2013 has been in the shop dozens of times for this. Literally dozens. Total bunch of BS. Wish I still had one of my pre 2013 units.
I have an '01 Ram 3500 and I'm not going newer any time soon. I'm avoiding DEF.
I get these emissions standards are perhaps unrealistically stringent to the point of making light-duty diesel trucks not market viable, but it's pretty messed up to consciously cheat the emissions testing knowing it'll likely be found out later. Once owners get the changes made to make it compliant, they end up with a vehicle that's worse than what they originally paid for with little to no recourse.
Agreed, the real losers here are the consumers.
I get what you’re saying. Fortunately, I live 20 minutes from the Cummins plant- which also means I’m in Indiana and we don’t have strict emissions laws.
The real losers are the American citizens who have to comply with every little tweak the government wants to impose.
It will be interesting to hear what Cummins has to say about it or if more details come out in the epa document, since Cummins “admits no wrongdoing”. The epa allows a vehicle to be outside the limits on emissions at times depending on the circumstances, you just have to disclose the info to them. Then they decide if it’s a good enough reason. Maybe Cummins argument is that they didn’t need to disclose some info or something should’ve been part of an engine protection strategy, idk.
Evidently the EPA has become anti-diesel. Not surprising given the federal and blue states’ war on fossil fuels. There is no magic bullet for tail pipe emissions. Only another remotely polluting solution, electric vehicles.
Lawyers will make sure owners get compensated for this mess. Large class action lawsuit coming!
There is no limit to the amount money the government is willing to take from those that earned it. This is a shake down pure and simple.
How's it the government's fault? They set a standard that's supposed to apply to everyone, Cummings allegedly cheated... what's the government supposed to do? Allow it? Then the cheaters get a competitive advantage and suddenly nobody complies.
I have a 2020 ram with the Cummins engine,I’m not sure what to expect really. I don’t see them doing the buyback on count of it being Cummins and not ram. I’m hoping whatever they do doesn’t destroy the power of the engine nor destroy the resale value of the trucks.
This is not just a Cummins problem , dodge, fiat or stellantis has been building engines out of EPA spec for years now and if you look at the statements made by the company they would rather pay the fine than deal with the burden of redesigning all of their engines…
The fines are to low to prevent their deceptive behaviour
I just bought a new 2024 Ram 2500 Cummins. It definitely will be interesting to see what happens.
I've been a part of both of Rams Dieselgate allegations. I had a 2014 Ecodiesel. And now have a 2018 2500 Cummins. I've had the recall done on 1/4/24. It didn't seem to effect the truck as much as the AEM recall did for the Ecodiesel. But the second revision of that helped. So i think the Cummins one is just mapping the emissions to what they are supposed to be full time.
Funny how they still passed emissions testing in the states that require it..
I currently run JET A with a lubribor additive. Many benefits like low emissions, improved power and anti gel. If it meets FAA governmental regulations, they can’t complain.
If someone decides they don't want to participate in the "fix" I assume that will mean they will never be able to have their trucks serviced at a dealer again. Also assuming dealers will be required to do what ever is required if they get it in the shop. I think that's what happened with VW.
If you take the vehicle to a dealer for any kind of service and the VIN does not show the update, the dealer will make the change during the time they have the vehicle. The manufacturer and dealer are required to make that change by the federal government.
I'd be more concerned with having registration and title problems down the road.
I'd bet the EPA will mandate the manufacturers notify them as each vehicle is updated. If participation is lower than desired, something will be attached to the VIN that will prevent registration or title transfer until the manufacturer 'clears' the VIN as 'properly mitigated'.
I couldn't imagine owning or repairing diesel vehicles in this day and age of extreme government ideocracy...
forced to buy EV,s which are worse for the earth.. watch vids..
My personal opinion is that the guys "rolling coal" have initiated a backlash.
The flip side of this is all the "loading" DPF/EGR etc. This includes gas engines. But what people dont realise that all these pollution reduction ends up with a fuel burn that has increased. The end result that typically you burn twice as much fuel for a given amount of work. How does that help the enviroment?
Logic and truth will get you banned from Y/T..
2016 2500 6.7 here ... Stock from factory and looking to keep it that way. Staying on top of mtce intervals and so far ive been lucky with minimal issues. Worried? Yes! I'm worried I'll be mandated to take it in and comply with whatever ecu flash is coming down the pipe. I'll ignore it for as along as i can.
Same year, ordered Banks intake,
Check em out😊
Same 2016 truck as you. My recall notice went into the circular file. Just curious, why install the Banks Intake? Are you planning to lose the rest of the emissions junk?@@rickreese5794
You have a 2016 and never tuned/deleted it? Big oof. That was one of the best years to do it on prior to everything (good tuners) disappearing from the market.
I own a 2000 Dodge Ram Cummings so no issue for me, however the government needs to stay out of our Diesel engines, out of our Fuel can, out of our toilets, out of our showers heads, out of our dish washers, out of our wash machines, out of our dryers, out of our lawn mowers, out of our chain saws, etc... I have mostly old stuff because it works and lasts, like a 1986 Maytag washer and Dryer. They have required little service in 38 years and no they are NOT for sale.
1.7 Billion fine, the EPA needs to be re-organized, that's totally ridiculous and shameful! PS I'm so glad I own a 7.3L truck! Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Like other alphabet agencies they can not write laws only enforce them..
I live in Canada Ontario and to my knowledge all the government owned diesels do not have any emissions on them. I wonder why
I'm glad I own a 2012 Ram 2500 Laramie the last year before DEF. Yes it has a DPF if it ever fails it will go along with the EGR. What I don't understand is how the EPA took over 10 years to figure out Cummins was playing tricks with the system. I've had lots of people want to buy my 2012 because of the year, no Def from the factory I won't sell it. if someone won't take no for an answer I tell them $55k not one was willing to pay that much. Yes it's less than a 2024 if someone wants to pay that I might sell it. It's my I don't want to sell it price. She's a baby 140k on the OD no rust and loaded options.
I'd like to know where the $1.7B goes after the EPA Gestapo get their hands on it.
They make more laws and hire more people to bend the American citizens over.
After they get their kickbacks,its likely to hire even more people to go after everyone. They keep demanding more emission controls made in large factories to cripple engine performance and make it less efficient. I'm willing to bet they cause more pollution than help it.
Bonuses probably, pay raises and hire more overpaid government staff that work from home.
In their pockets and the coffers of a certain political element.
I hope I get some for the contamination that I have been breathing in the air.....
Most people around here are getting replacement computers for 600.00 take out the factory computer put in the replacement get the recall done and put you old computer back in the truck
It would seem best if an attorney at this time open a class action suite on behalf of consumers regarding loss of fuel mileage and power and either at individual consumers discretion accept a agreeable buy back or a settlement for said losses. It would seem like until us consumers receive a confirmation that ram is going to make a fair and agreeable amount of restitution to ram owners that ram owners do not allow vehicles to be altered. In turn forces a legal disposition to compensate ram owners instead of sweeping the bs under owners rugs
I run straight pipe with egr blocker and it still don't blow black smoke hardly.
2004 gmc sierra 2500hd duramax lb7 4x4
a good running diesel won't blow black smoke.
@@TheGettyAdventures 366900mi and still going strong. 😁
The higher Nox, came from the introduction of diesel into the DPF "Diesel Particulate Filter" to drive temperatures up to burn the forbade soot. As a result, DEF is needed to convert the NoX that was created while burning the soot in the SCR "Selective Catalytic Reduction" to a cleaner substance. All because they could see the Soot "Carbon", you know, the building block of all life as we know it in the Universe
In California if you don't get the recall, you can't get your registration renewed
Saving the environment one plastic jug at a time 😂. My truck won’t be going to the dealership, and if it has to I’ll be sitting in the cab the entire time.
I have 2015 3500 srw with manual 6 speed. Took it In for CA smog issue (they replaced the catalytic convertor ) didn't notice much change and water pump never leaked before or after,. Then at 130K miles turbo died. Other than that all is well uses about 1 gallon DEF per 100 gallons of diesel.
Cummins should not pay, the EPA is not part of the constitution or any form of government body
I own a 2016 Ram 3500. I got the recall notice as well but won't take my truck in to get detuned. My def system failed awhile back, the dealer said it could be one or more of three components that may need to be replaced. Cost could be upwards of $3k if they could get the parts, this was back in pandemic times. So I'm still waiting for good news meanwhile I'll have to live with a more simpler exhaust system.😀
I can only imagine the scrutiny Ford and GM are going to get now on their software. These companies can make things work, they just dod the math and assumed they'd make more money getting fined and customers would blame government regulations and keep buying their stuff anyway.
Ford made a software change to the 6.7 Power Stroke about two years ago for emissions. I have a 2019 F350, and the dealer sent their mobile service van to my house and did the update with the truck parked in my driveway. Haven't noticed either a performance or mileage change since the update.
Gm isn't worried, they deliver trucks with emission failures right from the factory. In fact you should be concerned when the check engine light ISN'T on!!!
I can’t believe it my 2017 ram 3500 dually has 15000 miles on it and it has never went into regen and it runs perfectly and it has all the bs on it completely stock I’m leaving it the way it is I’ve had about ten people asking me if I want to sell it maybe if I sold it I could get a good price for it
Love your content! Best explanation ive seen on this so far. Look forward to more of your videos in 2024. You should get merch!
Merch will be coming to a store near you.
I had a 2000 Ford with the 7.3 powerstroke. It was unfortunately stolen from me. When I was in the market for another truck I looked at maybe buying another 7.3. Problem is of you can find one with relatively low mileage people think they have a pile of gold and want almost what I paid for my 7.3 new. I eventually bought a 22 Ford SD Tremor with a 7.3 Godzilla. The more I read about the DPF, the less I wanted one.
I got my recall notice last week. I am holding off on doing anything until I know more. I’m still emissions equipped 2018 2500. I have my doubts that politicians know how to tune a truck.
I have 2023 3500 and 2022 2500, the 2500 had the recall done late December 2022 as a smog and registration were due by 12/31/23. Along with the recall they had to replace a NOx sensor that had gone out at 38 k miles. The w/o also states that the ECU has been flashed and is "currently up to date for all emissions calibrations". I am not sure if this has anything to do with what is happening or not, but the truck runs normal with no signs of any power loss, however I did notice that the truck seems to use more DEF since I got it back. I am curious to know if anyone else has had the ECU flashed and if anything was noticed with the truck performance.
ya I would do the same, I'm expecting more info to leak out as the months pass.
Just got my 2016 3500 Laramie Longhorn updated. Doesn’t seem to have lost anything. So glad I didn’t delete! I chose the Banks parts instead.
There are not enough electric cars chargers in the USA. Epa is tasked with stealing money to get another charger company made
Electric cars and trucks will go the way of the DoDo Bird, will become extinct and remembered as a major farce -- and some Old Shit on capitol Hill wants to see electric cars to be the new means of transportation, what a bunch of Horse Shit...
Rumour has it the EPA is considering boat safeties due to all the reported boat accidents!
The most informative channel on CZcams IMO. Thanks for that. Would like your take on what may happen with all the Cummings out there that are fully deleted. Could this bring all that to light and create a new mess of rules for everybody around here? (Nova Scotia)
Thank you sir! and to be honest it shocks me how many deleted trucks are out here on the east coast. In other provinces like Ontario and BC there are massive fines and witch hunts for deleted trucks. rumours has it that New Brunswick at least is going to start cracking down on deleted trucks and fining shops that work on deleted trucks.
@@TheGettyAdventures I can only assume that safety inspections won't be issued for too much longer on deleted trucks. I honestly don't know any people around here that still have any emissions gear left in their trucks. Lol. Could get expensive. Thanks again for the work you put into your channel. It 's great.
@@TheGettyAdventures My cocern what is going to happen to older trucks that pre date these emissions standards like my 1994 5.9
M@markseehawer, that's what I'm wondering. I have an 05 with 5.9 and very little emissions shit. I also have an 08 that doesn't use Def but does run some of its damn exhaust back through the engine. I'll be damn if I get rid of either one. 05 gets average of 18 mpg, 08 gets if I'm lucky 16 mpg.
@@stevenjackson7067 I'm concerned that my 1994 Dodge diesel will be taken away from me and scrapped. Back then there were no emission systems added. My truck is well a maintained truck with a whole new fuel system in it. It gets about 18 mpg city And about 22 mpg highway. of course it depends on how I drive it. I always find it interesting that we always talk about ratios of out puts but we never talk about valumes. Case in point, VW had higher than aditted ratios of CO2 and NOX BUt there cars got 60+ mpg. So there total volume by mile was lower or on par with there cometitors. this should matter. This is the same with Cumins Reprograming these engines will bring the ratio down but volumes of NOX and CO2 will go up. Why because they are detuned and you now push harder on the peddle to get the same performance.
I have learned so much from your videos, and saved myself a lot of money and grief! I’ll be hanging on to my old reliable 2006 Dodge Cummins as long as possible. It has never let me down in 18 years and still runs amazing. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights.
I’m sure if you don’t get the recall they won’t let you renew your license plates which in my state requires an emissions test. I sold my 2017 ram 3500 with a 105,000 miles last summer. It was an awesome truck. I have a 2004 dodge 3500 6 speed that I’ll never sell now.
No requirement in any of the states around me to have the recall completed to renew registration and no emissions testing (for these trucks anyway) in any of those states either.
@jeffs2809 not yet...California and New York already started, coming soon.
@@youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601, I'm in NY and haven't heard of it here yet, but the bitch governor would recall a tampon if it wasn't full.
buy old.. my 2000 s/duty, mwm sprint, 4.2tdi, no computer, no glow plugs, all mechanical. gets 13 lt 100 ks, tows 5t, 700nm..love it.. ausie..
I don’t know why everyone gripes about emissions…
It doesn’t make that much difference and we prove to the environmental community that we innovate our way to a cleaner planet.
Everyone who “loses” their emissions equipment in a “boating” accident just hurts all the rest of us.
Funny thing is, Cummins gets the fine when it was all Dodges fault. Cummins makes the engine, Dodge makes everything else, I.e. Ecm, exhaust, wiring harness. If it was Cummins fault, why wouldn’t Cummins be responsible for doing the ECM flash? Because the didn’t make the software and ram is the ones who did.
I would of think the aftertreatment system would be a cummins deal seeing that it would be apart of the powertrain. at least on the commercial side if a freightliner has a cummins engine, all the aftertreatment is also cummins made and control through their own ECU. could be different on the pick up trucks.
Would you throw your biggest (non-commercial) customer under the bus? No. This is most likely a RAM issue and CMI is taking the heat....
Egr is not reburning anything. It brings inert exhaust into the combustion chamber. To effectively reduce the combustion area. Making the engine function like it has smaller displacement.
Very informative Alex. I appreciate the clear explanation of all the emission components and their purposes. Showing the Cat loader exhaust & the tail pipe of the truck runnind was a great example!
Thanks Mark! figured some visuals would help!
heres an answer,,every one ignores,,because it doesnt involve gas / petrol. ausie.. LPG, PRODUCES NOTHING.. ALL ENGINES CAN RUN ON IT.. ITS A WASTE PRODUCT, USED IN THE PRODUCTION OF ELECTRICITY.. HERE IN AUS, WE SELL IT, DELIVER IT, TO SINGAPORE ECT, FOR 9C LT.. WAKE THE FK UP.. @@TheGettyAdventures
example of what,, a sore ass.. your being fkt with..
@TheGettyAdventures if you wanted to show the effects of NOx, you could have included a Pic of smog in a city. That's what causes smog.
I have a 2014 ram 2500 cummings 6.7 I got the recall,why would I take to dealer,I already had to clean the egr valve,change both 02 aensors,def injector, what next? If took to dealer not only would it have cost me money I don't have I would have lost my ability to use my truck for work,intern loose everthing,no truck no money to pay bills,can't afford to own my ram 2500.
This recall is a stab in my life.
show how bad the DEF is when it burns it more toxic
The EPA is out hunting I'll be sticking with the 5.9 nobody will be forcing me to install emissions equipment on my 32 year old(1992) 12 valve Cummins. Looking to get an 03 or early 04 CR 5.9 next to her in the driveway.
The VW issue was basically a "lean burn" at freeway speeds to get better rmileage. Lean is hotter combustion which means more NOX. The fix for Cummins will probably involve more fuel at some points in the power curve - less milage but should not reduce power.
Diesel combustion is typically very high temperature which = high NoX. The control for that is EGR and SCR/DEF. A lot of EGR makes for a dirty intake (more maintenance)and hurts fuel mpg. IDK if VW was making use of DEF(adblue) during the affected years, but that would’ve been another maintenance item. Anyway, if they reduced the egr (effectively increasing available oxygen) that would improve efficiency of the burn but also increased NoX. I would guess they masked, skewed or disabled any NoX sensor(s) as well.
I could see DEF use increasing and possibly fuel use on the affected Cummins trucks. I suspect they’ll go towards increased DEF use, but we’ll see.
My understanding with VW was if the steering wheel was still then the emissions system would comply (eg during a test) but if the there was movement in the steering, as in normal driving, the program changed giving more performance, and emissions became a secondary concern.
its all bs.. LPG, ALL VEHICLES SHOULD RUN ON LPG. pumps out oxygen.. bronco, 15 yrs, 12.1 comp, no probs. 351, 302 heads, oxygen..
Seen all this coming long ago and bought a 97 which is pre diesel smog hear in California. Also all my gas cars and trucks are 76 or older for pre gas emissions.
The 12 valve Cummins was a great reliable engine.
I drive an 86 F-250 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, very reliable, maybe too slow to today`s standards. Too bad, I still get there.
Also drive Mercedes Diesel`s out of the 80`s. DD is a 82 240D, a 80 240D and a 85 300 Turbo Diesel. reliable and simple.
My zero to 60 is eventually, and I catch the big guys at the next red light....LOL
I’ve read every comment in this thread and no one has mentioned that this is a ‘’RULE’’ not a law. These RULES are being made by non elected civil service government employees, with political biases, even though our legislators have given these agencies the power to make these rules, where is it allowed that a non elected agency can make these rules that can be enforced like laws with criminal penalties and not being responsible to the voter. Most if not all government agencies are making these rules and enforcing them with criminal penalties. OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO VOTE ON WHO MAKES LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN SOLD DOWN THE DRAIN BY OUR POLITICIANS . ONLY DULY ELECTED LEGISLATORS CAN MAKE LAWS. WE THE PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE FOR ANY OF THESE PEOPLE.
Amen brother.
Im in ontario still havent got my letter for my 2018 but honestly just going to use it to start the fire in my wood burning stove since those “parts” fell off while driving
Every time you say "NOx" The Value of my 00' 7.3 Excursion , My 06' 5.9 Mega Cab goes up! 😁😁
It really is a dirty and expensive word. nox sensor - 1000 bucks. nox efficiency issues - $180/hour for diagnostic work.
Love my 5.9 '07 mega cab. (Born Dec. '06)
Was tempted a few times to upgrade to newer vehicle.
Never did because of emissions on newer rigs. So glad I never did
Same 1999 F350 7.3 From NEW & For Life
The EPA, along with many other alphabet agencies, needs to be disbanded. The dystopian bureaucratic nightmare will only get worse.
New diesels are like having a hot girlfriend, nice to look at, fun to ride but a big PITA to deal with. That old truck you had is like the wholesale girl next door. Attractive, reliable, used but not abused. And she’s only half the price on date night.
You can get an ISB 6.7 at 300hp 800lbft. A common school bus spec is 280hp, company I work for has 6 with that spec one at 250hp(white activity buses). That 30hp makes a world of difference at highway speed with a load on. That 30hp is 75lbft and after all of the manipulation(transmission and axle) you can feel the difference. Just like the 350hp L9s vs the 410hp X12. L9 is in a 35ft coach(42k max gross) and the X12s are in 45ft coach(56k gross, 42k empty) that extra 60hp is mote like 450lbft more(L9 are 1100lbft, X12 is 1550lbft) neither holds a candle to the Volvo D13s(435hp/1650lbft) or the 2008 CAT C13s in the fleet, these are the 450hp/1700lbft with a million original KMs on the clock.
The fact that Cummins didn’t fight this makes me never want to buy one of these engines. As an American I apologize for the EPA. Hopefully after the next election we can get them under control.
Next, they're going after the owners of the engines, they're also putting lock out devices to where you can't adjust anything on the engine computer. So anybody that has a deleted truck will eventually be facing fines and possible jail time.
I did a ton (2 years) of research prior to purchasing my 2021 Chevrolet 3500 L5P Duramax new in Jan 2021. I eliminated Ford right away due to the CP4 and several other known issues (death wobble, upper pan gasket leaks, Fords history building absolute junk) plus as a retired mechanic my career long dislike of Ford based on my experience with them in general. I dismissed RAM because just about everything about the truck except the engine is garbage with a dress on. The 68RFE being one big reason also. My Chevy may prove to be a disaster, time will tell but so far I love it. Tows our 13,000 fifth wheel like a dream and gets decent fuel mileage. As a mechanic I have never been a big fan of any vehicle made in the USA but I needed an HD truck for towing our RV thus the Chevy. If Toyota made a HD diesel truck that is what I would be driving.
the L5P Duramax is a solid engine with a decent truck around it. I agree with you that the 68RFE is trash and fords love for the CP4 is shocking.
I have a 92 Dodge one ton cummins, I'm the original owner and it has very low miles. Now I know why everyone wants to buy it.
Thank you for a very informative video.
I will not be bringing mine in for a recall anytime soon 😂
I received notice via email today from FCA on my now traded 2022 RAM 3500 Cummins HO. The notice stated it is under recall for Particulate Matter Sensor. The notice states “The Particulate Matter Sensor and Module may not have been installed during the manufacturing process.” It goes on to say that the dealer will inspect and if necessary install the Particulate Matter (PM) Sensor and module, reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) and attach an authorized modifications label. I happen to know when my truck was in a couple weeks ago, these parts were ordered for my truck and I was told it would take a month to get them so my truck did not have them. Don’t know the impact but glad I am clear of this mess.
That sensor was not available at the time of manufacturing. I've a 2022 RAM 2500, and my dealer installed this sensor last Fall. No different behavior of the truck, all good.
Check out the fuel injectors on the GE90-115 turbo fan engine. They are 3d printed in metal to get some very different spray patterns. GE was able to drastically reduce nox largely because of these injectors. JP8 is basically diesel. I have faith that engine manufacturers can innovate.
All the cost of " innovation " are passed on to the user Its time for manufacturers of engines to say n, cant be done .
Well certainly a bit scary on my end, especially since I just purchased a RAM 3500 with the HO Diesel. Thanks for the info!!
Would it be the VB6 recall? I had mine done 1yr ago and they swap back to cp3 as well free of charge.If it is, i didnt notice any difference in power or mileage but maybe used a little bit more def fluid . my exhuast system fell off recently 😉.
I believe the recall designation is A67.
Whenever I replace sensors (and sometimes the whole engine) I think about how many non-emissions engines run just to make all the replacement components that constantly fail
Non-emissions engines that will last for millions of miles and tens of thousands of hours with basic maintenance
Alex, this video was great! Thank you for making it.
Thank you!
The heavy duty line of ram trucks would not exist without Cummins. They have no choice but to keep Cummins around
Great explanation of the modern diesel Alex! I've been driving truck now for 30yrs.I remember having a Series 50 350hp in a Freightliner, fantastic engine but man,in the winter, you'd get lost in the smoke!! Unreal. Unfortunately manufacturers had to do something, these engines were heavy polluters.I think most manufacturers have the emissions systems finetuned ,if Cummins is doing something illegal then they need to be held accountable. My son has one of these things,big exhaust, blah blah blah, smokes like a chimney.You get the picture 😂
Haha the old Detroit Diesels like to smoke! And to be honest workjng around diesels everyday it makes life as a mechanic much better. These modern emission systems run so clean. Hopefully cummins didn't cross the line too far
For all the people claiming Ford and GM will be affected, Ford made an emissions programming change to the Power Stroke about two years ago. The dealer sent a mobile service van to my house and the techs did the programming change to the vehicle while it was parked in my driveway. My understanding was the change had to do with DEF use. I have not noticed a change in performance or fuel mileage.
Good content! straight to the point and easily understood!
It’s not just the diesel engines, it’s also all of the hemi line also !!!
Everytime I come across a video or an article addressing this I arrive at the same conclusion.
That making engines with less horsepower is the obvious solution.
You even said it in the video - the same engine platform used in a different application has an easier time meeting emissions regulaitions (regardless if you find them necessary or warranted)
I can hardly blame the manufacturer, they are in the business of making things people want to buy and when people want 400+ horsepower in their grocery getter they have no other option but to make it. Nobody wants to be the first one to offer less power than the outgoing model, because a journo will get a press car and make a multi-million view video on CZcams titled - don't buy it, its slow.
I never understood why it was acceptable for a truck this size to make 200-250 horsepower 30 years ago but nowadays nobody would even consider buying such a vehicle as it would become the butt of every automotive journalist's joke.
Marketing departments of car companies run them against the wall with no option to get out by convincing everyone that a truck that's going to spend vast majority of their time with an empty bed and occasionally a car transporter behind it needs 400 horse. And the worst part is that engineers are getting blamed for trying to work with what they've got by making decisions that ultimately lead to pre-mature death of every single one of these power units.
Horsepower wars and automotive journalists are the real source of the problem.
A Toyota Hilux sold in Australia or Europe makes less than 200 horse. And the owners will tell you it's perfectly fine.
Couldn’t agree more. My old 1979 Chevy crew cab made a disappointing 170 hp( probably an exaggeration) . Got the job done on my farm for 18 years. My current truck has a 5.3 l - 330 hp gas engine, and it’s just nuts how that thing will go. Way more power than it needs. Just dumb in my estimation!
Good for you you don't need hp and torque. Some of us buy diesel trucks to work them hard and appreciate the job they can do for us!
Yes David , I hear you. I need horsepower on my farm as well, just to get my crops out of the field and into the grain terminals. I own two tractors , a 175 hp air cooled diesel , a 550 hp 4 wd , seeding tractor , and two 500 hp tandem axle grain trucks. Horse power has always been wonderful, if and when you need it. However, I also believe in the adage . “As much as needed- no more than required”. I don’t need 330 hp to chase parts, but that seems to be where auto manufactures are taking us. I enjoyed your reply . Cheers!
@@davidsimpson3744 do you tow 40 thousand pounds behind your diesel truck? no? then what kind of fucking work you do that you where 400+ horse works hard?