Could the Copa Libertadores Go Global?
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- čas přidán 30. 09. 2019
- Could the Copa Libertadores go global?
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When CONMEBOL agreed to move the second leg of the Copa Libertadores final, South America’s equivalent of the UEFA Champions League, to Madrid, they not only solved an immediate logistical problem, they also have opened a door that could prove difficult to close.
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#copalibertadores #riverplate #bocajuniors - Sport
I echo a few comments seen here. Global in terms of reach, audience, etc, would be nice.
But the Copa Libertadores should ONLY be played in South America.
Otherwise it'd be like moving the Champions League Final to LA just to 'gain exposure', even though it's a regional competition.
Absolutely
Ya I'm agree..look at italy supercup play at saudi
They should play at they own country
Not outside
C não sente falta do México na liberta?
Agree
liberartadores should be played in all america. That would give exposure
They need more games on TV globally like European football. That’s the global reach, not playing overseas
THANKS, aliás thanks o caralho, obrigado
Quem vai assistir uma competição onde não se conhece nenhum jogador? Só os times tem nomes, por suas histórias tipo o Santos e Vasco.
@@bomdia6767 e precisa conhecer? Quem assisti os jogo do Barcelona, a maioria conhece todo mundo ou só Messi?
@@bomdia6767mas é justamente assistindo que as pessoas começam a conhecer, amigo
I'm not a fan of moving finals outside of the region the competition represents...at least not the final of the biggest club competition
2018 final only went moved to Madrid because some dude stoned Boca's bus (with the players inside) ,moments before the game starts.
same here. it sounds like that bullshit idea to have a champions league final in new york. sure, it's good for american and asian broadcasters...but other than that a very dumb idea.
The Europa league was pretty much moved outside of the region last year... it was in Azerbaijan, that's harder to reach than Madrid for Argentinians...
@@Liofa73 I mean football wise. Azerbaijan is part of UEFA
They could have moved to another country in south america, or even USA, instead of europe (especially spain)
It’s a joke how the second leg wasn’t in Argentina
Money, and corruption
the Government couldn't guarantee the safety of the event, not inside the stadium but in whole Buenos Aires.
@@fabioljaguiar09 the McDonalds next to the Obelisco was doomed anyway
Maybe if Argentinians could control themselves it wouldn't have had to been moved...
@@fabioljaguiar09 there was a lot of other places to make the game happen in south america
Money isn't everything. Clubs were formed locally and need to stay local. Close to their true fans
What if their true fans can't control their violent tendencies?
Wrong! Money does help. Clubs from South America have to sell their talent season after season because they need to money to survive. While selling is good it only makes a club weaker and thus the Libertadores weaker too. If Argentina, Brazil, Colombia etc. could manage to keep their best players, Copa Libertadores would be on par with EUFA Champions League.
@@oyaml1211 It helps, but what the OP was saying is that selling our major competition final to a host stadium in Europe is a big mistake. Last year Libertadores 2nd leg was a joke in every corner of South America. The fans weren't happy, neither the players. We could have the most beautiful spectacle but what we saw was a stadium without River and Boca fanatic hinchas. Libertadores and South American football should find a way to expand and sell the product, of course - there are leagues doing something in this direction actually, like Argentinian and Brazilian first leagues. But, unfortunately, there's a lot of politics protecting Conmebol and other confederations in order to keep power and clubs under their sleeve. It's a long and very complex debate, that Tifo probably never heard about and that's why didn't mentioned on the video. For europeans, it could look like just clubs being lazy and missing opportunities, but it's way more than that
Nah that just doesn't work anymore lets be honest. European football is growing bigger and bigger, if they don't significantly increase their earnings South American clubs will be forced to send more and more players to Europe. They actually HAVE to expand.
Mario L Brazilian clubs have the most club World Cup titles so they’re strong
It's a shame that South American football is not that popular in Europe. I follow SA football all my life, although I am Italian, the Copa Libertadores is a wonderful competition once you sink into its core value. The stadiums atmosphere is just unbelievable compared to Europe. Not marketed? Undervalued? Yes it's a shame, but I simply don't care, just love the Libertadores with all my heart. By the way Dale River!
South American club used to be bigger back then. Not to mentioned they won against European club, many time, when they competed through the competition called, Intercontinental Cup, and that was back when all talent of the south american are staying in their own continent league. Today not so much since many of the talented american player are playing in europe.
Vamos river carajo!! Greetings from an argentinian with italian roots!
They hosted the final of a competition called Called the ‘Copa Libertadores’ which is named in honor of the ‘Libertadores’, the main leaders of the South American wars of independence from Spain and Portugal, in literally the capital of the same country they were fighting against. I am not from South America, but that alone was such an insult to South American football. And possibly the biggest derby in the world had to be played there? That is absolutely atrocious. I love you guys at Tifo, and your videos, but I definitely can’t support this one. As a fan of football.
I agree. As a South American, it felt like an insult.
The single game final is beeing heavily criticized by fans too. You see, South America isn't Europe. We can't hop in a train and cross half a continent in a matter of hours to attend to a game. Distances are much greater, and the average fan is much poorer than the European counterparts. Only the rich will get to see the final, taking away all the spirit of our beloved continental championship. Modern football is killing futebol.
That was years ago. Centuries ago. The local gov. Can’t do nothing about their ancestors, so they can’t do anything about. As a Mexican I’m glad they conquered us, if not then another country would’ve done so and we wouldn’t have the same cultures or languages. I don’t see a problem hosting it in Europe.
As argentinian and River Plate fan, the insult its not about the history, is about the barras and the money who take from us the opportunity to live the biggest match of all time in our home
Delano Callender bruh that was centuries ago loosen up holy shit. Also no way in hell Is boca juniors vs river plate the biggest derby in world football, at all.
Lol something that you were not around bothers you this much ? Should I be pissed as an American they play nfl games in London because UK used to control what is now the USA ?
Growing up in Serbia my dream was to always travel to Argentina and watch Boca vs River, i took advantage in 2018. For me copa liberators always had this intense fighting spirit compare to UCL. A lot of people in europe are big fun of copa liberators but because of different time zone it makes it impossible to follow up.
Glad to read your comment
Greetings from Argentina 🇦🇷
I see the point that this video is making but I have strong disagreements with the arguments presented. I can see that latinamerican football is at a crisis. Leagues are less and less competitives and we are underperforming at the WC. Still, I can’t come to terms with the idea of adopting a more marketable approach at the cost of the fans. Here, people would literally give their lives for their club. I’m not saying if a good or bad thing but can you imagine telling that old man who waited all his life to see his team win a final has go to to Europe to do so?
Even the one-leg final held in my city has been highly controversial. Here we don’t have reasonable traveling distances like in Europe. Argentinos and Brasileños alike would have to travel perhaps 24 hours by land and pay an unfair ticket price to see their club.
I appreciate this video, though. Right now I cant see a sustainable option to transform Latinamerican futbol.
Well, i really can´t tell about the other south americans league... But at least in Brazil (the one with more audience and money involved) the product has evolved in comparision with the last recent years. So in the big picture i can see libertadores with at least 6 or 7 strong brands, and with capacity to attract more interest from the outside. Besides we have some very interesting and promising names playing at a high competitive level.
@@mr.fanaticrocker9992 yes, but the beauty in the Libertadores is that anyone can win it, clubs from all the continent, not only the best 6
@@FranzFridl It is usually just Argentina and Brazilian clubs that win Copa Libertadores. Every now and then you have another country's club win it but that is becoming rare.
EXACTLY MY OPINION
this would kill football as is it is for us.
i agree that the final should never have left south america or argentina for that matter. however, i am very much digging at the prospect of bigger tv deals and commercial revenue making the clubs in south america wealthier and not having to sell their best young talent on a conveyor like system to European clubs.
With more money into the leagues and more attendance, we may see a similar thing that is happening to the MLS but on a much more accelerated (and higher quality) path, bc frankly south american football isnt as tactic or technique driven as european football is, but theres a certain feel when you watch them on telly or even live. theres something different about it and its definitely something you never see at the european stage, even at a Barca Madrid or Liverpool Man Utd match.
*"Jogo bonita"*
Please, just end me, God...
Joga bonito**
@@renanbatista1967 No, it's Jogo Bonito ("Beautiful Game" translated from portuguese)
@@liliuMAX it's joga bonito, which means "play beautifully"
One of the more heinous parts of modern football is the idea that the global “fan” is more important that the match day fan. That needs to stop. Football would be nothing without the supporters who have made this sport the global phenomenon it is (in the sense that is enjoyed in almost all part of the world as people’s sport or choice.) but when you take day, Independiente Del Valle, a club with a small 8,000 stadium and tell their supporters that they may need to travel to... idk China to watch their club in a major continental final would be a disgrace to the sport and a farce.
Then dont complain when Europe dominate at the wc and club wc .
Globalism buddy
I would love to see CONMEBOL and CONCACAF work together and bring back Copa Interamericana
Money does the talk...if the CONMEBOL is as rich as the UEFA
They love hosting the copa America in the USA .. the money is here
CONMEBOL wants to be the UEFA of Southamerica, In nutshell and tbh its president Alejandro Domínguez is obsessed with copying everything to the UEFA.
I'm a Flamengo fan and it's really unfair that if we make it to the final we can't see it
South América it's really big , so going to Santiago from Rio it's not like London x Paris
We don't need that renevue because we never are competing with big europe clubs
So they are giving us pennys and taking the most hyped game of the year away
Love the channel , big fan but I disagreed with you Tito
It´s really weird that the idea of a super league with the top european teams in the UAE was bashed by Tifo yet they arent so outraged about exporting south american football to europe.
You should make a video analysing Marcelo Gallardo, the incredibly successful River Plate manager. Goes under the radar in Europe because he’s South American
Kenny Cota I really don’t think that he is under the radar because he is South American. There are many South American coaches in top European leagues.
I think he is under the radar because he is still working only in South America. He should have moved to Europe a long time ago.
It's nothing to do with where he is from, it's everything to do with where he is. . .in Europe he has achieved what exactly?
I meant that he's still in South America, was probably a bit unclear in my comment. And I think he still has time, he's only 43 after all
Give Gallardo any European team and he'll win the champions league walking.
@@AbsolutelyAbsolute he's in the best club in south america
It would be nice to have Libertadores matches broadcasted to other countries, but if Europeans want to watch the game in the stadium, they should come to SA and do so. Moving matches to other continents and copying European standards breaks South American football tradition and the special vibe that only South American stadiums have. The "FIFA stadium" that were built for the WC in Brazil destroyed great traditions we had over here and made the tickets more expensive.
Bring the Champions League final to Rio, first
no
no
never too much crime in rio
*sarcasm*
Nope
Great to see people outside of LATAM shinning a light on Libertadores, its a totally different experience from UCL, but equaly enjoyable if u care watching every game thinking you're in Signal iduna park with warm and loud crowds. Greetings from Brazil
Mas concordemos irmao, a última libertadores foi uma bosta
a pior edição do torneio em muito tempo
Can you imagine how competitive and the quality of the league would be if Messi, Neymar, Aguero, Di Maria and any other south american star(in European club league)are just staying in South America league(CONMEBOL) instead of joining in the UEFA league ? I wish Neymar stay in Santos or any Brazilian club team and I would love to see Messi, Di Maria and Aguero played in any Argentina club like River Plate, Boca Junior, Racing Club or etc, etc. I think South America league would've gonna be more interesting to watch if they being a faces of the league... after the golden era of South American football club league in 50s-70s for sure
As well as the corruption and the financial and economic crisis aren't getting worse, the South american league would have been bigger as they was and the SA star like Messi, Suarez and Neymar would have been stayed
36 stadiums with 10,000 capacity in one city? That is pretty crazy.
You need to visit Buenos Aires, the term "rival de patio" translates to "backyard rival", used to designate a derby rival, comes from the Argentinians because some Stadiums are literally on each others' backyard
No. In south america we can watch the Champions League games without problems, but in Europe the Libertadores is super late. I could not watch Boca and work the next day. Also at the Club WC the european teams have the money advantage, if it would be more balance maybe more people could be more interested.
Anyway, in South America we watch the Champions League because it's at a good time of day and because the best teams and players play there
Well, the final will be 5 pm in a saturday now, at least that they can watch.
Even for us , in south america, especially in Brazil, the games are too late.
@@thiagoribeiro3245 Yes, but I wanted to watch Boca Juniors against River Plate and the game was at 2am in Germany were I'm living. 10 or 11pm is more watchable. Champions League games are at 3 pm in Argentina and it was perfect. I used to watch the streaming at work :P
Aca tambien pasan en horario donde se trabaja y muchos no la ven por eso
@@Nx-Leython quien no se pone los partidos en el laburo?
For Europeans to enjoy and explore more of South American football, I believe Time Zones are the biggest hindrance
The CONMEMBAL is taking away was once was a magical spectacle of gladiators running out the tunnel with their home fans throwing confetti papers, singing their songs, jumping with flairs as the 12th man stands. After the final took place in Spain I knew nothing was going to be the same, you love to see two finals in where we see not just how beautiful this tournament is but also see it in a competitive stance where one game may not be the winner. You wait for anticipation, but this is just turning into the next business cap so at this point I don’t know what’s gonna happen I just want a two leg final back
Passing the greatest final in the history of Libertadores being played in Madrid as a good thing
Oh yeah, eurocentrism strikes again!
@DMW That's why as a south american I fuckin hate leftist clowns they're annoying...
@luis _ No you shut your cake hole. Nobody cares about your leftist bullshit.
Provide it and the viewers will come. Despite being in England and having no ties to South America, I would happily watch both the Brazilian and Argentinian leagues if they were more readily available on TV as well the Copa Libertadores.
Same thing in USA, and it was almost impossible to find a match for Copa America in Spanish in Atlanta, let alone in English
I don't get it. Copa Libertadores doesn't even have a UK TV deal at the moment yet poor Leagues like MLS and A-League do.
I also used to love watching bundesliga on uk tv but no, mls apparently is the way to go
@@WillMiall Bundesliga is on BT Sport.
@@michaelscott7166 ah thanks 👍🏻
Is that true??? That Buenos Aires ALONE has 36 stadiums that fit 10000 people or more? or did he mean the country??
Buenos Aires alone, the metropolitan area has 12M people and the best teams are from there and it host the bottom 4 leagues, those games are crazy.
It's the Buenos Aires + the metropolitan area aka conurbano.
Love the copa Libertadores, from Australia. Disappointed that Boca lost to River this morning, hopefully they can turn it around
Flamengo will finally win this year... Strongest team at the moment... lets wait
@@mr.fanaticrocker9992 Wouldn't be surprised
@@lukek4662 gonna watch Flamengo x Grêmio?
@@MrChiter98 of course
Flamengo and River are the strongest sides (from a very pissed Fluminense fan)
4:00 I think you meant "Joga Bonito"
It wouldn't be a tifo video without a spelling mistake somewhere
No. Joga Bonito means "he/she plays "attractive"(?). Jogo Bonito it's what he meant, which is "skillful play".
Os caras nem são brs e tão certo
Juego bonito*
@ jogo bonito is: Beautiful game
Well done video. Excited to see the Copa grow!
I agree with the change of the final to make it a single game as it does add more drama.
As for staging the tournament on a different continent; Yes it can attract new audiences and in a way popularise the tournament. But what about the local fans of the teams? Travelling expenses, immigration requirements etc
Being from a CONCACAF nation, I've played with the idea of the Copa Libertadores of expanding up north and replacing the CONCACAF Champions League. It would be good for both parties in that for CONMEBOL, they get to expand the market into North America and reap all the financial benefits that entails, and for CONCACAF, you immediately raise the quality of the competition your clubs face and your clubs benefit from the higher profile & exposure they get. Obviously the main issue is travel. No team wants to take 8-13 hour flights in the midweek a day prior to a game and then fly 8-13 hours back for a league game on the weekend.
And for that I've only come up with a PARTIAL solution. You could split the early stages into their respective regions, a Copa Libertadores and Copa Libertadores Norte (or whatever). So in my scenario the CONMEBOL teams play their group stages and maybe even the early knockout games as well, while the CONCACAF teams are doing the same. And then this is where I have 2 possible scenarios. 1) both competitions could progress until there is four teams from each region or 2) If CONCACAF wants they can start their competition a little earlier and play all the way till there is a winner for the Copa Libertadores Norte and then send the semi-finalists (aka the top four) to to the combined portion of the competition.
Obviously this is FAR from a perfect solution and it still has a few problems: 1) You still have the lengthy travel problem for the top four teams of each region. 2) The amount of inter-confederation play is limited since only the top four of each play each other, and 3) I would like to think that the quality of the CONCACAF teams has risen in the last few years, but if it's not at a comparable level to the South American teams, it will be extremely embarrassing to send them down for a combined quarterfinals just to watch them get smacked by the South American teams.
But this is just me brainstorming, so feel free to add tweaks or suggestions.
I think the solution to have a "real" panamerican copa libertadores is just supersonic business jets. They used to exist and could fly at more than double the speed of a regular plane, but disappeared because they were too expensive to become a massive business model. The thing is, if Copa Libertadores can really become a global attraction, the money it would make could more than justify the expensive but faster travel, specially if they limit this to the group stage, while leaving the previous stages with the smaller teams divided by south and north/central america where they can just use cheap slow planes
The key main issues with the idea of expanding The Copa Libertadores are four:
1) Travel Distance (just imagine the amount of time and distance to travel to make a match between a MLS Team vs an Argentinian or Chilean Squad). The Players would be exhausted just for the hours (essentially one and a half or even two days of traveling) spent in two very long travels.
2) Federations own interests (especially money issues).
3) League calendars (the most incompatible Is the MLS).
4) The risks associated with long travels in such a small frame of time (for example i still remember the Chapecoense Team Flight Disaster).
Unfortunately splitting it evenly between Concacaf and Conmebol would make little sense from a sport merit sense. Maybe if some of the northern nations in Conmebol joined this North groups it could help.
@@Agarwaen00 why would it be equal? It'd be like the UCL, important countries get more direct slots, less important countries get one spot just to compete in the previous rounds
@@amilcardurancatalan8397 I agree. It was the proposal above that said Concacaf and Conmebol would get half of this new unified tournement each.
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Two games final was part of what made libertadores special. Having both clubs playing in their stadiums, with the fans creating great atmosphere was great. Now, not only the final will be in a single game, and in a neutral stadium, conmebol is also making lots of prohibitions on what fans can do in the stadiums, killing part of the atmosphere. They also wanted to forbid teams from lower divisions to play in the competition, since the domestic cup's champion usually gets a spot in the libertadores here, but at least for next year, they're are not going to change that
In the last 5 international competitions that Argentina participated in, namely, the 2014 World Cup, 2015 Copa America, 2016 Copa America, 2018 World Cup, and the 2019 Copa America, Argentina were knocked out by the team that won the tournament. And, in every one of those meetings in which Argentina were knocked out, they had a better scoreline against the team that beat them than anyone else did in the knockout stages.
If that isn't a curse, I don't know what is.
I don't see how this is relevant to the video
@@manuelalvarez4185 He is arguing about what tifo say is the underperforming of south american clubs in the wrod cup.
Cool story bro
MORGAN THE FORK so he counters it by showing facts from copa America, a competition where no European teams participate?
@@morganthefork193 they never won it that's why Europe won the last 4 wcs no south American team played in the semi final last year Europe will dominate football for a long time
Love the content, but if you don't mind some criticism, it is "jogo bonito" and not "jogo bonita". Great video otherwise, but I really don't believe Europeans and US fans would ever want to watch Libertadores like they do other sporting competitions. It is so hard to keep track of all the teams and storylines. In Europe most of the top flight remains the same or changes very little.
I know the last few years Libertadores has seen repeated success by some teams, but that is generally not the case. Football is so much more volatile here. Cruzeiro was the best campaign in this year's group stage but is facing a relegation battle already in Brazil for example. For someone who does not follow it closely, South American football is a bit crazy and I assume it would be hard to market it for Europeans. Boca x River would be an exception and not the rule.
no one cares about the US fans lol
I don't really agree with that. I think the lack of domination by only certain teams could make it more interesting to other fans especially those bored with the same teams winning over and over again in Europe.
@@viniciusferrari2653 European teams that profit from that market certainly do.
@@Snitor Nah dude you got it all wrong. I love watching the Copa Libertadores and have a lot of respect for both the Argentinian and Brazil football leagues. I'm an American (I'm a fan of Liga MX, fuck mls) but still I'm a huge fan of seeing South American teams clash one on one in the Copa Libertadores. I just wish that they would actually display the football games over here tbh.
Ninguém fala "joga bonito" ou "jogo bonito" aqui! Isso foi uma série de comercial da nike, e os gringos associam ao futebol brasileiro, aqui sempre falamos "futebol arte"!
National federations and continental confederations should be protecting their local & regional competitions.
They are by making them commercially viable just like UEFA has
But the Champions League and Europa League aren't playing their finals off-continent. BIG difference.
@@Backpackfiles This is soon bound to change given how UEFA is willing to sell their souls for a fake glitz and glamour in either the Middle East or China. So don't be surprised if in few years the Champions League final is played in say Saudi Arabia. He who orders the music, he pays.
And this trend of going to the Middle East is nothing new and it encompasses all sports. This year's IAAF track and field world championship is in Doha, Qatar. Formula One hosts races in Abu Dhabi and Bahrain. UCI has several top level cycling events in the Middle East and also had worlds in Doha. And I can go on and on with similar examples.
Yikes. I know, though.
@@Backpackfiles SA has to market their clubs and themselves in order to Maximize profits, I know some will say it's selling out but the big boys in Europe have done it why not SA
People worldwide should definitely watch Flamengo playing. Managed by Jorge Jesus, who’ve won the Portuguese league multiple times, the team sports a very solid squad, with the likes of Diego Alves, Rafinha, F Luis, Gabigol, Giorgian De Arrascaeta(Uruguay NT) and Bruno Henrique. Besides others not so known lads, such as Gerson, Rodrigo Caio and the spaniard Marí, that are big promises.
Greetings from Rio.
Yeah, sure. Sell the clubs to the highest bidder, how could it possibly go wrong?
2005-06 was also the last time a club won the Champions League without any brazillian in the first team. It's basicly a rule.
1:30ish: The stat about every Champions League winner having a South American in the line-up since 05/06 has taken a weird turn. Bayern fielded a starting XI that contained only players representing European nations (plus Alphonso Davies) in 19/20. However, they did bring Phillipe Coutinho off the bench and Thiago's family are Brazilian! So it seems both technically true and untrue at the same time now.
Libertadores should have MLS and mexican teams too. That would be interesting and even europeans would watch. Imagine having Gareth Bale playing a semifinal in Maracanã
Excelent video, nice as always, but in my opinion you europeans shouldn't have this eurocentric view on football anymore. Basically you said that if we want to improve, we must leave South America and go play in Europe.The argument of bringing copa libertadores to Europe it's a joke. What happened last year, i mean the final in madrid, was a completely disaster, it only showed that the people in conmebol are really stupid and don't know what to do to improve south american football. They just copy what UEFA do.
I'm sorry if i sounded rude, but i'm tired of this eurocentrism in football. We don't need start playing in europe or forget our history and the way we see football to improve. We only need non corrupted peolpe in Conmebol. We need people that can understand our passion about libertadores, that can comprehend that south american football is great as the european.
Eurocentrism mostly come from English people. And it's not for all of Europe only the big rich countries. Countries like Scotland and the Netherlands get looked down on because they aren't as rich and don't have tourist fans.
@@tonyh7994 Scotland and The Netherlands are rich countries. And even more civilized than England.
Plus Scotland and The Netherlands have a lot of tourism xddd
@@javierslytherin9898 I mean a rich league and football clubs not the actual country sorry.
Most of south american clubs are stuck in the 80's. Just look up on what the portuguese Jorge Jesus has done to Flamengo, turning a broken team into the champion of Libertadores 2019.
Nope. I rather see concacaf teams be invited to play . Liga MX and MLS have very rich teams. I also don’t see why you couldn’t invite Central American Heavy Weights like Olimpia of Honduras or Saprissa of Costa Rica. Invite the AMERICAS.
ikr
In 2 Copa Sudamericanas they did invite Central American teams as well as DC United.
The travelling distances would be insane. In fact up to four years ago (if I'm no mistaken) teams from Mexico played the Libertadores as guests, and they even made to one final, I think in 2015, but due to logistical problems Libertadores went back to be played only by teams from South American
@@AlvaroMF13 Perhaps, Mexican team made it to three finals and it wasn't logistics what cased the Mexican teams not participating anymore it was scheduling conflicts between concacaf and conmebol.
That's what the CONCACAF League and the CONCACAF Champions League are for. Travel distances are too far and there is no history between the clubs.
Great video👍🏻
It will be nice that you also talk about the potential of CONCACAF, and other federations like Africa and Asia.
The video deserve some critics. First of all, it ignored all the major critics made throughout South America against the move of 2018 final abroad, even more to Spain (let's remember that Libertadores da América means "Liberators of America", and the game was played in the capital of the colonial power Argentina fought against).
Second, it showed a really stereotype view of "happy fans and joga bonito". That is defenetilly not Brazilian club fans, as World Cup fans (very rich people to aford trips and WC tickets) are not the club fans.
For the same reason, even the one-leg final is been hardly criticized, as it made it more dificult for poor fans to attend the game.
It's called Copa Libertadores de América not Copa Conquistadores de América. The move by both Argie clubs to host it in Spain and the very idea of it was/is an insult to the memory of those same Liberators who shed blood to free South America.
i always got sad and embarrassed when i remember that final in Madrid, historical mistake.
It was done on purpose, as a symbolic rite. While Macri and Bolsonaro are destroying Argentina's and Brazil's continental proyect of an independent and sovereign South America.
Man, couldn't you just grown up and stop believing this shit they tell you in the school?
Que rancios sois los sudamericanos
Why mention England, Portugal, Spain and France and not Italy? Italy and Spain must be the leagues with the most Argentinian and Brazilian players in Europe.
Great video , but can you please post a video about what happened in the CAF african champions league last season ? I am sure it was a first time we ever saw something like that .
Its called the Copa LIBERTADORES not the Copa CONQUISTADORS
Very good video. I think it could bring more aspects to itself tho. There's a strong pressure on these movements made my CONMEBOL. The fans don't wanna sell their culture and tradition sharing 'em with other continents. The one-leg final was - and is - already a huge debate among the fans. And plus that all, CONMEBOL doesn't have much credit for their image since always.
Much more complex than that.
This is an interesting perspective on the globalisation of the game, I think the positives of greater worldwide exposure to South American football and increasing the competitiveness on an international scale of the regions game have to be weighed against the negative of how an influx of money can detach fans from the teams they support and distort the the equal chances of teams within the league. Interestingly maybe FIFA’s idea of an enhanced Club World Cup every 4 years (replacing confed club) with 16 UEFA clubs, 8 Conmebol and the remaining clubs from the other association championships in a neutral venue would be a good way to begin to introduce this, giving libertadores clubs a platform to compete with UEFA clubs without forcing South American fans to regularly spend money on trips abroad
When will you guys break down Flamengo with Jorge Jesus ???? Arguably one of the best South American teams in the past decade
Europe said:
It takes a wolf to kill a wolf, So we'll by them
Last years final should have been hosted in Estadio Azteca in Mexico so they can get Mexican teams back in the competition and also because its neutral venue and in one of the most famous stadiums in the world where Pele and maradona won the World Cup
Idk what it is, but I just love watching videos from this channel. Amazing content. Hopefully its 100 percent factual
Can you do videos on club football in other continents too? Pls...asia, concacaf, caf mainly and ofc too
Well I won’t be able to watch the libertadores final because Directv got rid of the bein sports channel 😫
1:45 i didn't expect that the difference of the amount of players was so small given that Argentina has around 45m people and Brazil 200m but i guess Talents in Argentina have a better chance getting scouted than in poorer Brazil.
If only they still had Mexican teams smh, y'all can't say they didn't lose money either since almost 25 sponsors stopped sponsoring the tournament
I dont really know why mexican teams were there in the first place. even if they won, they wouldnt compete in the WC and the travel time was a huge pain for some smaller clubs
@@leandrometfan because Mexican teams brought more viewership and money, which is all that matters to the tournament host. The first year without Mexican teams there was a 33% drop in live viewership, and 45% the next year
We did but not much. South American clubs survive from selling players with or without Mexican money. In turn, the best ones out of those players feed the National Teams to be more competitive. It's a fair trade. Now look at Mexico instead, they have all the money in the world and can't reach ''quinto partido'' because deep down all they care about is money instead of development.
Truth to be told having Mexican football in Latin America isn't relevant to anyone. Statistics show Mexicans don't care about losing games, and nations from CONMEBOL don't like to be told what to do by a far more recent confederation such as CONCACAF.
So either Mexico leaves CONCACAF and joins CONMEBOL altoghether or they stay at CONCACAF and play there because otherwise is a waste of money and resources over pesky diplomacy, which mind you, is between the two most corrupted confederations in the world.
@@BurnRoddy Conmebol may not like to be told what to do but the numbers are there to show that when the Mexican teams left, sponsorships and viewership has diminished greatly. And it gradually decreases as each tournament passes. That's why conmebol tried to surpass that by playing at the Bernabeau but the fact still stands that Mexican teams have and always will bring more money than any Brazilian team
@@quill5586 I'm begining to ponder if you even understand what's going on.
The numbers gradually decreased BEFORE Mexico even took part in CONMEBOL competitions and WITH Mexican clubs playing Libertadores and Sudamericana.
It has nothing to with sponsors but with other problems such as barras bravas violence, top players migration, etc. The numbers that Mexico brought meant almost nothing for both for Mexicans and South Americans. And stricly economically speaking it did brought way less than Brazil does even adjusted per number of teams.
The reason why CONMEBOL was forced to play the game in Europe was because the clubs were SANCTIONED by FIFA so that the game was played OUTSIDE of South America in order to avoid violence.
In fact it was going to be played in an Arab nation but the negotiations didn't go through because of booze prohibition in that country.
The next best thing was Spain because of the South American population there and because it already had experience of nulifying South American hooliganism from when Penarol and Nacional had to play there for the local Championship in 2005.
This becoming crazy now, there is more and more games being added on every year, the super league is a thing for some reason and now a domestic cup going to Europe. Football has abandoned its morals and favoured the upper class.
Alan Shields
Hamilton South Lanarkshire Scotland.
Unfortunately all Sports are becoming ever increasingly about how much money can be made.
The N.F.L olaying games in London is the key that opened the door to this they where the first to do this & if The Premier League in England & Spain's La Liga could get away with doing to you would have League games from they leagues outside there geographical boundarys in a heart beet.
The way things are heading football wise we will see a
World Football League driven buy money hungry clubs, players & agents it's no longer a working class game & has not been so for a long time especially in Europe & I expect South America to go the sameway buy 2030 at the latest money talks.
And fans are being priced out all professional sports the upper classes are taking over big time.
Me & my Girlfriend are going to see Manchester City vs Liverpool in April next year & it's costing close to £300 not far off at all it's for her Birthday/Christmas but how can afford that week in week out only the upper classes at most for us myb once every 2 years & even that is pushing our finances.
It's all very sad.
Football clubs are businesses if they don't make money, TV deals or Fans then they cease to exist. Bury is an example of that (although there are other factors involved that we are yet to fully understand and will probably understand better in due course).
I can only comment from personal experience as football fan from the UK, but the drama of last years final with the fan clashes and the moving of the 2nd leg to Madrid caught my attention and I ended up watching the final live, otherwise I probably wouldn't of watched it in all honesty. So it turned me into a fan of the tournament in some regard.
Don't get me wrong the fans of clubs from South America should come first, but in this modern age of football when is that ever taken into account. Look at the farce of Chelsea and Arsenal in the Europa League final last year, barely any practical thought was given to those fans either. I hope it can reach a global audience without having to cause to much trouble for the fans from there respected countries but if a future final's destination is announced in due time to be in Europe, then surely that can't be to much of an ask for fans to get there. The Bernabeu's atmosphere last year was certainly impressive considering the short notice.
Can you please do a video on River Plates academy please?
Libertadores needs to have the Mexican teams back and also add the MLS teams to the competition, 2 big countries added and probably would be smart to let the Americans have a big participation in the organization of the competition.
I'd say one or two mls teams honestly
@@quill5586 the results will say how many teams, if they win games they will have more teams and if they lose less teams like in the Champions League.
@Ali Raza Jafree Yeah.. the MLS teams are not that great but that will show them that they should improve. Playing with the best encourages you to be better. I even suggest CONCACAF and CONMEBOL should combine. That will help both of them.
They ran away from us the last time they tried to compete
Liga MX and MLS sides are easily better than any South American club side
There's a reason it's only now the final is a one off neutral game. If it turns out they struggle to get local fans to travel to the other side of the continent, but could easily sell out a game in Europe or USA with 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants (and paying higher ticket prices)... It could be a no brainer.
Wonderful insight I do believe that if copa libertadores go global it could benefit from the revenue. Tho we still prefer passion and glory than money and show
Anyway Libertadores is like UEL while Copa Interamericana was used to be more for American UCL because CI used to be a club competition between the whole continent of America.. The fact that the last Interamericana cup in 1998 was finally won by north american team.. so that mean the competition was just about to growing. Shortly, the competition got abolished, since then... If not, we could've see which club would rule the whole American continent if it still exist and how big the competition process between conmebol and concacaf would gonna be
So the real question is could the CONMEBOL & CONCACAF league go global if Copa Interamericana still exist ??
I think that there are too many topics squeezed into this video. This distracted from the main point, which was to argue whether or not to host the Libertadores in another country. We have player development, club wealth, historical differences, performances at World Cups. None of these directly relate to the argument. They probably could do in a 30 minute long lecture. But this is deliberately a short video. Generally, I don't have problems with your scripts; this one could have done with a bit of a clean-up.
Love the channel though. Might even subscript to 'The Atlantic', so here's to cross-marketing.
Indeed, the situation is too complicated for one short video. They should make more detailed videos to cover all the nuances of the state of SA football.
They should provide worldwide telecasting first
Nice presentation, I definitely agree with you guys. Because it’s not so highly watched as European, it’s often just forgotten or people just flick channels to see the European
3:30 Talk about Buenos Aires, puts a Santiago image
The easiest way to make it go global is if they have they’re own app/ streaming service where you pay a small fee per month but you can watch any copa libertadores match from from any country in the world. With out the need to pay expensive cable fees
Club World Cup should be hosted in Argentina so South America gets 2 teams
The Club World Cup is being expanded soon I think.
Add CONCACAF clubs and once American media gets on it it'll explode.
As a south American, i dont want any soft ass team from the states or México
@@franciscogll8191 LoL
nah, too long trips to play in the other side of the globe when there are already some long ass trips.
plus MLS teams would suck
64 clubs, 32 concacaf and 32 comenbol, two conferences, from the playoffs joins the two continents. It would only increase four games.
It’s not televised in the states. Unless you get a cable/satellite
“soccer package”
Could you do a video on Gallardo? Is this coach the real deal and does he have a future in Europe?
As a Filipino, Copa Libertadores is more exciting, competitive club competition than any Continental Club Competition in the rest of world.
YO TIFO, YOU SHOULD DO MORE SOUTH AMERICAN VIDEOS PLEASE😅🙏🙏
Can you do a video about MLS and MX joining the libertadores?
Did MLS actually join libertadores?
@@wifi961 no, but DC united joined the sudamericana
@@GamesTube80 How far have they gotten?
@@wifi961 i honestly don't know
@@GamesTube80 Two Mexican teams were able to win the cup, so maybe they can too.
Please do a video explaining the new Europa Conference League🙏🙏🙏
If their finals should be played in European countries then bring the champions league final to the Americas then.
A game between the Champions League winners and Copa Libertadores winner would do wonders for the tournament's reputaion and reach.
We would see that clash in FIFA Club World Cup
@@ytgc-royalewarex5190 I have learnt about that after i posted this comment, but that shows that it is not advertised enough.
@@ytgc-royalewarex5190 and before FIFA CWC it was Intercontinental Cup. CWC basically replaced them
I love the Copa L. Great competition and fans.
Concacaf and conmembol should just merge and have a tier 1 and tier 2 competition like champions league and Europa league
Love the music on this
Something is changing in South American football, and as a brazilian fan I can assure that the level of football played here is incresingly more attractive. In the "Brasileirão" (the brazilian league) for example, good things are happening. We have the biggest attendance numbers in decades while the country is passing through a serious economic crysis thanks to austerity reforms that have been implemented in the Dilma, Temer and now Bolsonaro administration and however the clubs are generating more revenue than ever before. The brazilian league already have one of the highest average salaries in the world in it's top division e is capable of paying salaries comparable to (at leat some) european top leagues, which is helping to make south american football a financially attractive option. And more clubs are beggining to have more financially responsible administrations and there is a FFP policy on the way.
The level of football is also increasing. In Brazil, coaches with very dated ideas and methods are being excluded from top clubs, who are slowly giving place to foreign coaches like Jorge Sampaolli and Jorge Jesus who are considerably more inovative than brazilian coaches in general and they are encoutering players capable of bringing about their ideas. The relative lack of european interest in our top players in the last years (in part because of the usually very high termination fines; Lázaro, one of the finest youth academy players of brazillian football, for example, recently renewd his contract and have a termination fine of about €80 million) have also helped. Our top players are staying longer, which is also helping to achieve better football.
Right now i'd say that south american football is becoming the most interesting football center outside europe. There is much to be done in order to actually compete with european football, but the simple fact that you guys are actually acknowledging south american football not just for the players but for the actual football shows that football here is evolving, at least in technical, tactical and marketing terms; politically not so much, but that is another topic.
Money talks
Think you can make a video on what's going wrong with spurs? They're in absolute shambles, would be an interesting topic.
Do you think UEFA could stage a one-off Champions League final in South America to reciprocate? Also, I hope the final is broadcast in the UK like last year.
1:30 - 1:37 But the greatest of them all... *ZINEDINE ZIDANE!*
Zidane is not south American, what are you talking about?
@@manuelalvarez4185 I know, I'm making a joke along the lines of a popular song by Vaudeville Smash
imagine a super champions league, yeah the club world cub is cool and all but nobody puts much importance in it imagine a global champions league, perhaps it could even take place in a neutral location like the U.S Top 3 from Spain, England, Italy, etc vs top 1 or 2 from Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Japan, that would be insane
The US, Canada, and Mexico is the way forward for South American football. Teams from MLS and Liga MX should consistently participate in the South American tournament, and the group stages along with maybe the initial knockout phase should be held in those countries. That sells tickets- especially in the US, where people are fairly selective- and the whole tournament gains a lot more traction.
Then for the semifinal and the final- at a minimum, maybe the quarters as well- that all moves back to South America. If the logistical challenges can be worked out, that would be incredible.
The CONCACAF Champions League is the biggest question- what do you do with that? That's a bit difficult, and perhaps it becomes a Not In Tournament from the perspective of those two leagues. That's probably fine. I'd say it's worth it.
Mexican teams have competed in libertadores.
I hope it goes global, but I think Libertadores is too complex for other publics.
Nobody in Brazil says "joga bonito" or "jogo bonito". We refere to it as "futebol arte", which would translate as "artistic football". Joga bonito was an advertisement from nike.
There are established football competitions on TV every night of the week, certainly in the UK, probably in the rest of Europe - with the world's best players playing in them. It'll get as much attention as the Championship, maybe less.
With Liga MX and MLS in Copa Libertadores it will help make Copa Libertadores even more popular in the entire American continent not just South America. Hopefully they are both added soon.
@@David-Lopez10 it's not like the Bolivia, Peru, Uruguay, Paraguay leagues are on par with Argentina and Brazil. It is only those two leagues that always win it. If you want MLS to win a Libertadores it will take for MLS to get rid of its salary cap structure and have an open market like other leagues but even then that isn't an assurance to win it. Just look at Mexico, they spend more than Brazil and Argentina on their rosters and they too never won it.
@@David-Lopez10 how exactly do you know that removing salary cap won't make MLS teams better? That is how Liga MX teams go better, by buying South American talent. You think Tigres, America and Monterrey are good because of the talent they produce or the talent they buy? It is because they spend so much is because they are good. Same can be with MLS and here there aren't only 3 teams with rich owners, in MLS you have several BILLIONAIRES who own teams. So yes, without salary cap restrictions MLS can compete in Copa Libertadores.
@@David-Lopez10
You are just talking out of your ass now. Young south American talent are coming to MLS and it is because salary cap is rising (means players get paid equal to and in some cases better than Mexico) and it will continue to rise. Cristian Pavon, Pity Martinez, Tomas Chacon, Brian Rodriguez, Barco, Almiron etc are just some who are coming to MLS and getting paid good. If players wanted "history", "crowds", they would just stay in South America instead, if that is what they really want, according to you. Reality is they see MLS as an opportunity to grow too and get paid while doing so.
As a Brazilian, in the early 2000s, I started supporting Manchester United (I got hoked in by that magic 99 squad, and the fact that they won against Palmeras [the green team at 6:45), and I started to see the differences between SA and EU football, and the first thing I found out is that *Conmebol is trash,* there are so many things that they could use from UEFA, and they didn't, and every new thing they add was BS, any good thing that came from South America was either adopted by a national league, then it interested UEFA, after UEFA adopted it, only then Conmebol would try it, anyway, it's a shitty institution, this year single final is the first good thing they did in at least one decade...
And a great part of the blame of Libertadores being so underwatched, everything this video said is true, but one thing they forgot, last decade, SA teams could definitely win against EU teams, now they can't even match a 2nd tier team, Flamengo and Palmeiras (the two best teams here in Brazil nowadays) would still hold their ground, but would still lose in a not humiliating way, every other team (including mine, São Paulo, the team Dani Alves and JuanFran went to) would lose badly.
Now really is the worst time for SA Football, it should've gone global last decade, but Conmebol did nothing of the sort, I just hope this new attention to it makes our football better...
BTW, I say *SA teams are bad,* not players, I think a best players team would be over 50% SA players nowadays
Coincidentally I will be in Buenos Aires on 23rd Nov when the final is played. Can someone local or who has been there tell me where is the best place to watch the final? Any local pub or parks that do public viewing? Or is it dangerous to watch it with a crowd? First time for me to even visit South America so I wonder...
Its probably risky.
@@BurnRoddy Thanks for the info. I was going to go outside and wander about by myself.
@@watashiikarashi no es peligroso si eres neutral , el argentino es muy amigable
As a European I would really like a 32/64 teams merged concacaf and conmebol Champions League, as well as a Copa America Centenario every 4 years. I fully understand that I don't understand some things that could play a role in this...
The distance man. Europe is really tiny and rich and close to each other. It took me 13 hours to fly to Madrid from Bogota, Colombia, it takes 10 hours to go Bogota to Buenos Aires and 16 to go to Mexico DF. Now picture Buenos Aires or Brasilia to Mexico DF, it's a logistics nightmare
Its very funny hearing that fans wants the "joga bonito" trope when most teams in Brasileirão are playing conservative reactive (often reactionary) tactics. Flamengo and Santos this year are exceptions, with foreign coaches
Yeah the "retranca" tactics are so boring and frustrating
A video on Man city's current defensive crisis pls. Thanks