The Myth of South America
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2022
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South America has produced some of the greatest ever players in football history. Many South American players have played for the best teams in the game. But rarely do players make a move directly from South America to elite-level clubs. But why?
As Jon Mackenzie explains most players need a stepping stone club to take them to the next level. Illustrated by Henry Cooke.
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#Brazil #GabrielJesus #Argentina - Sport
Real Madrid signed 3 players directly from South America that were crucial in winning the Champions League last season
Federico Valverde - Peñarol
Vinícius Jr - Flamengo
Rodrygo - Santos
Real Madrid recently realized how good and bargain they can do this far now it won't stop them now
Casemiro too I think
The video is pretty clear that its focus is in signings directly from South America to the Premier League, not Europe in general...
0:27 "when it comes to the PL..."
@@omosiate-ariyoolayide8304 Casemiro played for Porto prior to sign Real Madrid
@@jerysouza6745 no he's right, Casemiro went on loan to Porto from Madrid and was eventually brought back
"Never sign directlly from South America" is based on prejudice. Jack Grealish is a perfect example
What….
@@displayname2149 Grealish has never signed a player from South America.
Overpriced English player
@@mchugho true
@@mchugho That's the joke
Ask Real Madrid if they regret signing Rodrygo and Vinicius Jr. directly from their Brazilian clubs.
Ask Barcelona if they regretted having Neymar
Ask Barcelona if they regret signing Messi directly from Newell
Ask AC Milan if they regret signing Kaká directly from São Paulo
And Valverde from Peñarol.
I love he implied that portugal has more level in their league than brazil 🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌 wonder if he even watches south american football
It needs to be pointed out that the reason Douglas Luiz never made an appearance for Man City was his inability to obtain a work permit during his time there. He was able to get one when he signed for Aston Villa because of the more important role he was projected (correctly) to play in a newly promoted team.
Sort of like Taiwo Awoniyi in his journey to forest through Liverpool
Was just about to comment the same thing 👍👍
I thought the WP depended on internationals except for exceptional talents. Does it vary based on likelihood of playing these days? Or did I always have it wrong?
@@AidanMcGovern Yes I also remember that there was once a requirement for work permits around the number of international games a player had played in during the previous year. Douglas Luiz wouldn’t have been able to fulfil that if it was in place - he didn’t make his debut for the senior Brazil team until three months after he signed for Villa - but I remember the media commentary at the time of his signing making it clear that Villa had been able to demonstrate that he would be an important player for them and that’s why he had been able to get the permit on that occasion after the previous failures at City. The process certainly wasn’t a slam dunk - I remember it being something of a 50/50 proposition at the time as to whether Villa would be able to get him the permit.
Here I am thinking no matter what size a contract is or what likelihood of playing you would be granted a work visa
As a South American (A Brazilian, more specifically), although i agree with some points that were made, i couldn't help but feel that this argument was somewhat elitist and prejudiced towards South America, as whole. There are a lot of good examples in clubs like Real Madrid, that goes against this theory of yours.
And also, that may come as a surprise, but there's actually elite football being played outside UK, in Europe!
Yeah and it's even better for europeans to bring them directly
Because sadly our players are cheap and won't doubt to leave immediately
I think you have misinterpreted Tifo detailing this phenomenon as them somehow arguing in favour of it
@@PT77711 at least i interpreted it as tifo describing it rather than taking a posture
@@PT77711 this video was full of prejudice. If you can't see it, it's probably because you have it too
@@sexo2dasilva I think perhaps you need to be less sensitive & willing to find offence when there is none ; this is good sports journalism, and that means it doesn’t always flatter your own loyalties as a fan.
Loads of criticism of football from every part of the world on this channel, more so English football than anywhere else, it’s a good quality as an adult to be able to take it
The more noteworthy thing is that Martinelli directly moved from the Brazilian fourth division to the Premier League
To be fair, he was one of the best players in the Copa São Paulo in the year that he was signed by Arsenal, this is a u20 competition that brings a lot of visibility national wise (it happens during the preseason every year), so even for smaller clubs like Ituano it's an opportunity to showcase the up and coming talents in your club and sell them to bigger clubs, every brazilian world star player that you can think of for the past 20 years started with a great showing at the Copa São Paulo.
@@victorhsluiz That scouting is insane though, because he integrated immediately. That's like if Leicester bought Kante when he was at Boulogne instead of Caen.
That was really impressive. But it is an exception, as he was only playing in this team because his parents got a job in the city of this club.
From Paulista A1 not 4 division
@@chaopauludo7821 State championships are only considered in Brazil. So, National 4th division is more accurate than São Paulo State 1st division.
In fact, these players didn't necessarily develop their football in Europe, that's the real myth here. The true is that in most of the cases, they just adapted to fit in European football. They were as good in Brazil as they are now in the premier league but different as the leagues are different. Brazilian league is not a step behind, it's just a different game compared to European leagues that look all the same.
Exactly. The brazilian league is less tactical and relies more on individual play (which is also why there are so many great dribblers and 1-on-1 defenders coming out of Brazil), while in Europe it's generally a more tactical, team-play game. Of course, this is a generalization, and there are clubs that are exception to this rule (Palmeiras and Flamengo are two examples of Brazilian teams with a strong tactical game).
@@joaoassumpcao3347 in my opinion, the brazilian league needs more physical than technical hability (of course there are exceptions), which is why its so different from european leagues.
As a Brighton fan, i’ve seen first hand the quality of player you can get directly from South America. Moises Caicedo and Alexis Mac Allister have become regular starters for us after being bought directly from Ecuador and Argentina respectively. We have also bought Julio Enciso this summer from Paraguay who looks to have lots of potential. But these players, particularly Caicedo and Mac Allister, had significant periods of time where they weren’t playing for Brighton after they were signed to allow them to settle into the new league, country and culture by going out on loan, playing for u21s/u23s or just being unused subs in match day squads. So South America definitely houses some gems but you have to give them time to adjust
I thought Mac Allister is Scottish or Irish because his name is "Mc" loooollllllll
@@franciscoquelin2710 there are lots of south americans of Irish welsh n scottish decent as they tried to escape english rule ages ago
Brighton are so underrepresented in Tifo content (who seem to focus more and more on just the top 6). The best run team in the Premier League at the moment, best English manager with interesting, attacking tactics, and a scouting network which continually picks up gems from unfashionable leagues. Even have the USG link, which is interesting on its own.
Let's have another video the big six though, eh? Even though every sports media outlet talks about the same things constantly anyway
@@user-xo4mg2ij3t hold this W
Caicedo was loaned first
I think this myth of never signing directly is really stupid and based on prejudice. You can get players for way less money buying directly from the clubs in South America, and playing in stronger leagues is not a guarantee that a player will work in the Premier League. Tottenham spent years buying players from France and the Netherlands and pretty much all of them flopped.
agreed
Real Madrid always bought directly from Brazil and never had big problems
Martinelli
Vertonghen Alderweireld, Eriksen, Sanchez were flops yeah? Only Janssen was a flop and you can’t really call Bergwijn a flop when he played 83 games in 2.5 seasons.
@@PCGeines It just depends on the style of football!
I thought the video would be about Europe as a whole, but it was just about PL. This "rule" does not seem to apply to the rest of Europe, Serie a and La Liga had several players who came directly from South America to their leagues, Pato, Thiago silva and Kaka in Milan, Marcelo, Casemiro, Vini Jr, Rodrygo in Real Madrid. I believe this is an English exclusivity of not going directly to South America.
Definitely. The whole premise of the video is pretty naive
Lautaro Martinez was signed directly from South America and look at him now
Roberto Carlos, Júlio Cesar and Adriano for Inter too
@Exalt Chrom Well, David Neres and Antony went from Brazil directly to Ajax, and I think it's much more difficult to adapt in Netherlands than in England.
Not in Premier League. It is a almost exclusivity to the big six.
Never sign directly from South America seems like a patently stupid position imo. Some of the quality has been outrageous and available at ridiculously low prices. Gabriel Martinelli from the 4th division of Brazilian football is probably worth 10x what arsenal paid for him right now.
when jack grealish is valued at 100m. . I'll go find a cheaper better alternative in South America any day.
The reason they are so much cheaper is because of what you think is stupid. If there wasn't a caution around signing South American players, they'd cost about the same as European players. Would they be worth it then? Probably not, given the risk involved. There's a reason they're generally cheaper.
@@chrism7574 they're also cheaper because of the disparity between currencies.
Martinelli wasnt signed by being good at the 4th division in Brazil, he was signed due to his performance at the premier Junior category of football in Brazil, by playing well at the Copa São Paulo. Also that 4th division team is at the toughest state league in Brazil, which houses 5 first division teams and needs to play against all of them.
@@henriquesoares2343 still 4th Division right?
Remember guys, ManUtd paid €80mil in Maguire and ManCity paid €100mil in Grealish but Real Madrid paid €6mil for Casemiro, €45mil for Vini, Arsenal €7mil for Martinelli and Watford €12mil for Richarlison but guess what, I think it's better to pay more for an English player because he's adapted than cheap in an SA talent because he's gonna flop in the PL
Excelente comentário.
É o pensamento de certos britânicos! Pagar fortunas por caras que são horríveis,mas que nasceram lá,ok. Agora pagar barato em jogadores de fora da Europa não! Porque é um "risco"de acordo com o cidadão aí do vídeo.
haha, exactly. And they wonder why they've got only one World Cup.
Os caras simplesmente ignoraram o Richarlison, bizarro
Engraçado falar isso enquanto mais da metade da PL não ser britânica.
I rather Chelsea spend money on a South American talent than spend 60 million try to sign Anthony Gordon and Harry Maguire. I don't understand why TT is mistreating and not developing the talent we already have at the club
To add rotational options I agree, he should when theres so muc talent like CHO. For replacements like CB or LB thats ok go ahead and get the players.
Because TT is massively overrated manager…
@@krusher181 nah that's unfair, he won UCL
@@sigfigronath Di Matteo won UCL with a worse squad against better teams. Tuchel did it against the worst Atletico & Real side in the last decade. And against a City side who were playing their first European final. All the while playing a back 5 behind Ngolo Kante playing at his peak. Even Leicester didn't play a back 5 behind Kante 😂
Tuchel is not even among top 6 coaches in PL.
@@Never_Wr0ng I still think it's harsh. He came to a struggling team and changed them around to winners. I don't even like Chelsea, it pains me to say this.
when Barcelona signed Neymar 2013, he was already one of the best players in the world and the leader of the national team playing at Santos
Truth is the Brazilian league has higher technical level than the leagues of Portugal and the Netherlands, for example, but English clubs don't seem to have any trouble signing players from those leagues.
Technically our league is better but unfourtunately those two leagues are tactically much more advanced although we are catching up
I agree that there is a lot of prejudice against signing south american players but the teams that can look beyond that are the ones who are having the most success
Jesus was ALWAYS this good
When he arrived at city he was tipped to be a ballon d’or contender. All players look worse than they can at City because the team comes first.
This makes 0 sense because City keep winning titles with record point tallies
@@shishsuke it makes perfect sense, players may be able to do more than they show at City, but individual talent is secondary to sticking to Pep's system.
@@jazzoj5 I agree to some extend, most players under Pep develop amazing vut it's true that in a smaller club they would get better numbers. But perhabs not as many trophys. It's up to the player to decide. Best example is sterling; lets see if he mamage more then 20 goals for chelsea.
Beg to differ on Sterling. The team made him look better as Chelsea would undoubtedly discover in due course.
@@JA-pn4ji Tuchel's strike rate with forwards is a more pressing matter than whether or not sterling is good
The focus should’ve been on europe’s big teams as a whole, for players like Neymar, Vinicius, Marcelo, Higuaín, Agüero, Chicharito, Valverde, Rodrygo, Giménez, Ángel Correa, Lodi, Arthur, Alison, Paqueta, Lautaro, Araujo, Bentancur, etc. to name some of the recent ones that have made the jump directly to a big club from latin american clubs. The best players in the world have always come from Latin America, and even though the brits might think there’s a world of difference between the prem and south america, clubs like Flamengo, Palmeiras, Corinthians, Boca, River, Monterrey, Tigres, America would easily compete for Europa League and Conference league spots in the prem over teams like everton, west ham, leeds, etc
Why should it have focused on "Europe's big teams as a whole"? The video was about teams in Premier League and how they view players coming directly from South America.
And I think you're overestimating the quality of clubs from Latin America if you believe those clubs would "easily" compete for the Premier League's spots in the Europa League and Conference League. In my opinion they'd almost certainly be found in the bottom half of the table and probably trying to fend off relegation.
Ist about Premier League. U named Player Who went to spain, were climate and culture is more similar than in rainy bridish uk
@@BiggieTrismegistus I'm pretty sure Palmeiras, Flamengo, Boca and River are better than mosto of Premier League teams not in the big six...
@@BiggieTrismegistus the prem is 100% the most overrated league in the world. It's made to seem far better than it actually is. The biggest advantage the prem has had is its medium being English. Because of this it's the most popular league since English is the most spoken language, and it tempts rich billionaires to invest in prem teams. I think you're the one overestimating the quality of English teams.
@@ThiagoOliveira-ph3vo I'm pretty sure you're wrong.
Arsenal signed Marquinhos from São Paulo. I think he'll be next.
indeed. All indications were that he was a project for the long haul (as we said with Martinelli)...but he's hit the ground running to such an extent that we have scrapped plans to loan him and will instead have him make bit part contributions for the first team. Just like Martinelli before him.
He just might be 2/2 on direct signings from the Brasileirão, Edu (who himself went directly from Corinthians to Arsenal way back when)
He has to compete with Saka first
@@sriig even just watching him play for the u21 this season its clear his above that level already. EL is gona be perfect level for him
@Harm van der Wilt Exactly!! It is easy to settle in when you're around a bunch of people that you can lean on while you're there.
@@containedhurricane the way saka is going, won't be difficult.
I’m glad arsenal haven’t really followed this model. Martinelli cost 6m and is probably worth over 10x that and is one of our best players. Marquinhos is utterly dominating the u23’s right now, and looks like he’ll get europa league and cup matches
Hopefully cup matches first and a few late minute europa league to get a taste for it. Arsenal fans are ruthless, they will eat him alive if he makes a few mistakes.
Really? That's surprising for me. Here in Brasil, Marquinhos did not left that good of a impression, he was good but didn't seem to be even at a Brasil's top teams level who would've thought European level then
Thank Edu for that
@@JoaoGabriel-lj6jg Be young has advantages. I think the scouts search for the potencial good players, but the hard work is inside of the club. Physical training, nutrition, tactical knowledge are things that a young player has more area to grown. His abilities should grow is these next years. If his head is good enough.
Barcelona signed messi when he was 13, imagine if la liga followed this rule
And even better, they took the risk to pay for his treatment and gave him full support on his career, i can't begin to imagine a PL team doing that for a 13 year old south american boy that wasn't even playing on a top club of his country
There are hundreds of South American players who never had the platform to be recognized by scouts, I’m certain many of them would’ve done well in Europe. Hopefully that changes
Martinelli is probably a good example. 6 million? So cheap.
While having an exchange is good. I'd rather have many of them stay to better their leagues. So as to have more than just the european leagues. The Brazilian, argentinian and Mexican already have the potential, they just need better organization and international marketing
Same for African players especially West Africa
@@krusher181 and he wasn't even known in Brazil. The was a amazing job from Arsenal scouts.
@@TheRocky8520 kind of, he was actually well known because he played for ituano which is weird for someone of his quality. If I remember correctly he performed really well in the copinha. However you had to have some ball knowledge to know about him.
Always knew South America didn't exist 🙄 thanks for the confirmation, Tifo
@K F …….
To hoi4 players yeah it might as well not exist
@K F Actually Portugal is just brazilian overseas department in Europe
@@marcelodossantos6718 Without the crime and favelas right?
@@maurogonzalez1643 The United States and Europe are also full of slums and crime, but nobody says anything. Besides that Brazil is the richest country in Latin America, so stop being prejudiced my dear Latin American friend.
This ridiculous rule and tentativeness is why the PL teams have missed out on some all time great south Americans like Dinho, R9, Neymar, Kaka, Messi, etc imagine if they actually went for it and brought those players in early on, England would be the dominant force in CL and not Spain
But there was a time that the English football was more known by the physical strength of its players and their fights than for their abilities. I don't think that R9 would survive for many seasons playing with figures like Roy Keene, Duncan Fergunson, Ben Thatcher, etc. The advent of Premier League and the investments from worldwide millionaires changed the football there.
@@G15FMC Mate prime R9 literally played in Serie A when they had Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Costacurta, Thuram, Mancini and it was considered the best defensive and most physical league in the world you swear R9 who was 6’0 strong and explosive wouldn’t man handle Roy Keane lol people seem to forget what kind of animal R9 used to be
@@CJVP99 right? what a joke he said!
@@CJVP99 but wasnt he seriosly injured and damaged there?
@@franciscosouza5345 having chronic injuries is often caused by bad luck + genetics
Growing up and having Brazil be my favorite team to watch, I am absolutely loving watching two of their best play together now at Arsenal.
Martinelli is such an impressive player and if he really hits the huge heights he’s capable of, his story will be an incredible transition of a player his age
Julian didn't just challenge for the title with River. He was the leading goalscorer in a league winning campaign and won two more domestic cups last year alone.
Also won the Libertadores wich is basically the Champions League of South America
@@equinox5986 he didnt play that champions but was.part if the list of players signed in the competition. He was too young
@@DTTaTa jugo la final y le conto la asistencia del gol de quintero en la prorroga. no se si sabias esa data
Tifo are getting more and more EPL-centric lately
There was a video where TIFO said it's more common to see a Chelsea shirt than a Vasco or Fluminense kit in the streets of Rio de Janeiro. That has got to be the worst take I've EVER seen on south american football in my life. Because it's a straight up made up fact lol
@@henriquedaumas9934 nossa isso é estúpido pra caralho
@@henriquedaumas9934 Surreal, o cara só pode ter tirado dá bunda pra ter falado uma parada dessas
@@henriquedaumas9934 Eu vi esse vídeo aí também, essa foi escrotíssima
@@joaofrancisco42 qual vídeo?
With Jamie Carragher saying that Lisandro Martinez is too short to be a center back in the premier league, I think it would be interesting to do a video comparing height and success of players in the PL to see if there is any correlation.
Y que tal lisandro martinez ahora?
MacAllistair has been a decent pick up for Brighton
The english football is so great that their players have won the world Cup as many times as Uruguay
Nope Uruguay has more, they have 2 World cup titles (1930 and 1950), England has only one (1966)
I really thought South America existed, this is heartbreaking
WRONG INFO, City could not get work permit for D. Luiz for which he had to be shifted to A.Villa.
There is probably another reason why clubs are reluctant to invest in South American players initially. The often complicated ownership representing them. For examples of this see Caicedo at Brighton, Carlos Tevez at West Ham and the court case with Sheffield United etc. However there are way more examples of it working successfully. Plus, pretty sure Portugal isn’t the top destination for Argentinian players. South America is more than Brazil!
You're right about the last part. There are 56 non-brazilian players from SA playing in La Liga right now against 29 from Portugal. But I understand that the 111 brazilian players in Portugal skews the data. Even so, one would expect Tifo to go a little deeper.
@@luisbehtypa4880 i see plenty of Argentinian players in Italy and Germany.
@@HenSt-gz7qj Right now, Bundesliga not so much. Italy you are right, probably because there is a large community of people with italian and argentinian double citizenship. But it's still not close of south americans from Portugal. 47% of players in the first division of Portugal are south americans, of course, mostly brazilians, in the second division, more than half.
@Eric Cartman Actually more than half of Argentines have Italian ancestry.
@Eric Cartman and Italy
Ricarlison to Watford was direct from South America
Same with Joao Pedro, that Newcastle will soon sign
@@PoucoHabilidoso In Jan maybe. He's currently injured with a torn calf.
As a Fluminense fan I never doubted he'd adapt. Absurd work rate and ethic he had for us.
Real Madrid have 3 Brazilians straight from Brazil Vinicius, Rodrigo and Reinier , so did Marcelo . I can think of more as well, not sure it’s that rare
He was talking about the epl not la liga
@@genekendrick679 sorry dude in the first 1 mins he says it’s a rule of all elite European sides , then talked about the PL in particular
@@yorkshirelad346 A simple mistake that often occurs when one thinks "elite European clubs" and it's automatically assumed the English football league.... 🙄
@@charlesray9674 lol maybe , but it was just one sentence at the beginning of the vid to be fair .
@@yorkshirelad346 👍But they often do that on this channel. There's the one entitled "Germany football decline" or some such, and it wasn't a an overall German football, but the women's game. Again, domestically and internationally, German football has been lacking and not just the women's game....
There's a lot of players here in Brazil that fits the current "meta" in football for pressing and attack empty spaces (combined with the tradicional technical excelence from South America's players), those are qualities that Guardiola loves and explains the risk taken to get Jesus and Alvarez without any european experience. This obviously influences other clubs, Nottingham Forest for example already signed Gustavo Scarpa for January, he's currently one the best players in Brazil this season.
Martinelli is a masterclass example of scouting
@@teacoffee42 Not exactly, he was already being sought by other brazilian clubs from first division (Palmeiras offered even a better deal, but Arsenal had already closed the contract). Copa São Paulo (u20 tournament) is a very traditional competition here in Brazil and most of the fans watch it after the regular season is over.
No, it isnt.
Brazilian football has a whole works differently than european football. Brazil is a country with continental dimensions that is made up of 25 culturally different states and every single state has a competition of it own, which is disputed in the begining of the year and qualifies to Copa Do Brazil. Every single club in the country plays one State Competition, and is the opportunity that the small clubs have to shine. For the big clubs, its a great pre-season training. Martinelli came from Campeonato Paulista, the most rich and prestiged state competition. He isnt on arsenal because some dude found him in forth division, he is there bc the eyes were on him at the first three months of the year. If he came from Goaniense, Potiguar or Pernambuco, i would be surprised. But from Campeonato Paulista? No.
As an English person with new Brasilian family, I've started watching the Brasileirao (specifically Flamengo) fairly regularly, and I think the downplaying of the ability and tactics of the league is very unfair.
Whilst I appreciate that Flamengo are one of the best teams in Serie A, I genuinely think they'd comfortably be able to play in the Premierleague, and personally I wouldn't mind if my team, Palace, had some of their players in the team (Gabigol, Mateuszinho, de Arrascaeta).
The problem I found that holds Brasilian football back, and Brasilian society generally, is the terrible structure and corruption that goes on, along with sprinklings of an unwillingness to be progressive.
Define what you mean by “progressive”
New Brazilian family? What do you mean?
@@diavolo9238 maybe he married into a Brazilian family?
It's getting better. The last 3 years we've seen a jump in the footbal quality of our league. And it's only going to improve with the changes they are making in the league.
the downplaying of the ability and tactics of the league is just prejudice.
Moses Caicedo signed for Brighton directly from Indepediente del Valle in Ecuador.
he was loaned first
@@ricardocarrillo621 so was Douglas Luiz, who gets mentioned in the Video.
Is it true he's on 3k/month at brighton? ahaha
@@neoreign apparently, why’s that funny?
@@paulshuttleworth6261 While absolute legends like Lingardinho takes 200k per week.
Vini jr had adaptation problems too but now after 1 or 2 season he's the Best young player in la liga
Didn't he arrive in 2017? That makes it 5 years before fully adapting tho, definetely a looong time
2019 and in 2021-2022 Last season he was a beast
@@equinox5986 he arrived at 2018, played like 2 or 3 games in Castilla, then had some oscilations until he became one of their main players. He was also 18 when he arrived and I think was already sold to Real before he evn turned 17
@@diogomelo7897 Still is a long time to adapt, also if i'm not mistaken Madrid were seriously thinking of loaning him because he wasn't progressing much
I think there's an unsaid bias when it comes to Europe and South American players, esp. where England is concerned. South American players tend to always do well in Europe on average and up until recently England was never a first choice for the best South American talent. It actually took non English managers with an innovative approach to break the taboo of signing South American talent. Btw (Edu has a lot to do with Martinelli ). Also more non European football directors at English Clubs are putting this myth to death. Personally I believe that it's the South American players that boosts and bolster European leagues. I don't know if the European leagues and football administrators will be quick to admit that anytime soon.
Imagine PL without SA players...
If SA players stayed in South america, south American leagues would be stronger than european leagues
@@GuilhermeSouza-ux4jq All they have is the money.
There is one major point the video is missing: the adaptability of both Martinelli and Gabriel Jesus. Both of them gave their hardest to adapt and flourish in a very different league, plus the cultural differences. Both of them used the best at their disposal and also had great mentality to live the process. I do agree with the idea that is better to sign Brazilians from other european leagues and they are likely to be more sucessfull because of that, but the key is mental and cultural adaptability. If you aren't strong-minded enough, it doesn't matter if you are a baller or not. It is very likely you will not perform well. Example? Riquelme at Barcelona. Only got his head straight after a move to Villlarreal, got back to playing in his position/role and finally adapted to La Liga football.
Riquelme flopped in Barcelona because Van Gaal never wanted him. He told Riquelme on his first day that he was signed only because the president wanted him. His system didn't really work to exploit his skills properly either, so he was pretty much doomed to fail from start. Pellegrini got how to use Riquelme and he did much better there because of it. I don't think it had anything to do with adaptability, some players are just not a good fit for some coaches.
Argentine players usually do really good when signed directly from South America, Julian Alvarez, Agüero, Tevez, Lisandro Martinez, Enzo Fernandez, Lautaro Martinez, Mac Allister are just a couple of recent examples, i feel like the adaptation problem comes from Brazil, usually brazilian players are used to a chill/care free life and when they arrive to Europe they change to a more strict, serious and professional life style, while Argentine players are way more used to that life, basically different cultures
@@jakeyuhen2624 Exactly, Riquelme was played on the wing in Barca ffs. As great a player he was, he was never made to play on the wing, especially back in that era. Classic #10, could control a game completely when on song, but had little pace, negligible workrate and needed players to move around him
Another recent Brazilian Arsenal signing - Marquinhos - came straight from his club Sao Paulo FC in June of 2022. The jury is definitely out on his impact but he also was not loaned out this window, so maybe they intend to integrate him into the squad.
Arsenal only bought Marquinhos because it was an opportunity, as he did not want to renew his contract with São Paulo. But he doesn't have the level to play for Arsenal, in my opinion. I saw him and Antony start their careers, and there is a huge difference
And he barely even played at São Paulo. He was never a important player in the squad or anything. The vastly majority of football fans in Brazil have no ideia who he is.
This was what I imagined in my own fantasy FM world after I signed so many SA wonderkids directly from the SA sides. The media praised me for this risk taking approach that saved my club tons of money.
Erhm... You guys are forgetting about Richarlison, Oscar Emboaba, Carlos Tevez, Javier Mascherano just to name a few...
People forget where Neymar came from before joining Barcelona?
It’s been forever since Hámilton Ricard signed for Middlesbrough in ‘97. Juan Pablo Ángel moved from River Plate to Villa the same year. Rodallega moved from Necaxa in ‘09. Everyone else has been somewhere else in Europe. The most recent (direct) moves went to the EFL with Yerson Mosquera (Wolverhampton) and Yaser Asprilla (Watford), the latter is a brilliant footballer.
As a Colombian, I can confirm too. Yaser Asprilla was taken from Envigado F.C. directly to the Wolves.
You forgot Marquinios to Arsenal from Sao Paulo but anyway..
*Paulo
Marquinhos at Arsenal has been signed direct from São Paulo this season.
Brighton’s main transfer activity is based in South America.
But Brazilian fans crying too hard about the fact someone’s pointed out (neither saying it was good or bad) why some premier league clubs haven’t in the past..
Im a brazilian who lived in London for 11 years. The sheer arrogance of this video is beyond cognitive comprehension. Grealish 100m. Grealishinho 35m. Rodrygo 35m. Rodney 100m.
@@critcri Yep, extremely ignorant video
Barca signed messi and Neymar directly from South America, something that no one in the comment section is talking about
Isnt messi from la masia?
@@ronanesque4407 he is, but he was brought to barca from an Argentine club, Newell's old boys
@@ronanesque4407 he was brought over to Spain from Argentina as a teenager, perhaps some English clubs should've kept an eye out down there for one of the all time greats rather than assuming South Americans aren't worth their time until they've played in Europe already
I really hope the Liga MX can come back to the Libertadores, it'll help us massively with developing talented players and getting them into Europe
A right they used to play there. Now they play in the morth american version? How does it go?
Alot of the problem is Mexican players don't want to leave Liga MX, crazy when you think how big Mexicos population and interest in football they should be on a Brazil/Argentina level of players.
@@DabDabGoose yeah and a big part of their reason for not leaving is that Mexican clubs pay high wages to their starters, often a bit more than they would earn in Europe.
@@flyingaviator8158 Mexican clubs dominate the CONCACAF Champions League, which is a huge problem because they are not often pushed to do their best or to even really take the competition seriously.
It's nuts that Liga MX teams play in the CONCACAF Champions League now instead of the Copa Libertadores. Almost all of the really competitive games Mexican teams will play in the tournament will be against clubs from the MLS. The MLS is getting better but it's not Liga MX's level yet. Clubs from Mexico would certainly benefit from having to deal with the higher quality teams in the Copa Libertadores.
Spain clubs don't have this kind of prejudices. Madrid, for example, has a long history of signing footballers from South America.
Starting by Di Stéfano.
Its funny that the big 3 clubs in spain have argentinians as their legends, tho idk if simeone is their biggest but probably top 5
Are we forgetting Marquinhos??? At Arsenal.🤔
Not proven yet
@@maths9647 agreed, he's still a player directly from a South American club
@@Dali_88 But he is a different case, he wasn't even a starter at São Paulo. Arsenal hired him for an opportunity, because his contract was running out and if São Paulo didn't sell he would leave for free, so Arsenal managed to hire him very cheaply, but this is a very unusual case, it's another bet that is worth it for the low price.
@@luccamm2 okay, still from the continent. I get the context...
Their is a reason why Brazil have the most world cups in the world
Valverde signed for real Madrid, the biggest club in the world and he looks destined to be a legend.
But obviously Uruguay and Spain speak the same language and besides that, the La Liga is full of Latin American players that makes it much easier for a player to adapt. If Valverde had instead transfered to Chelsea or even Bayern, he might have flopped.
@@DarthFederer0000 Rodrygo, Vinicius, Marcelo... yes you could argue the language and culture being similar helps but really these players just need a chance to develop. Fede didn't get many chances but always stuck out wasn't loaned out and finally got his breakthrough under Zidane, Vini under Solari, reaching a world class level under Ancelotti, Rodrygo will still achieve his potential.
@@asquared5786 It's worth mentioning though that Rodrygo, Vini and Valverde became important while Real Madrid had mostly stopped making expensive transfers, with the exception of Hazard. So there was room for them to grow, room that wasn't there during the Mourinho or first Ancelotti era. Timing is also important when it comes to young players that need rtime to develop
One you guys missed:
Marquinhos joined Arsenal this summer from Sao Paulo
Also missed Richarlison
Martinelli for Arsenal has been a good, but also cheap, pickup that has been a huge payoff. He only cost them £6 million, and still only 21 years old
Yeah and he is probrably worth over 40 million now. Great business for a great talent
and keep in mind, martinelli was signed from ituano, a team from brazilian 4th division at that time. its still crazy fee for a prospect who came from brazilian 4th division. but it seems the fee was justified now.
@@eneriseabductor1345 If Antony is worth 100 million than he’s worth at least 60 million…
Though you got some fair points there, and I understand that this video is about showing what happens instead of arguing in favor of it, it must be said that claiming that moving from Brazil's first division to Portugal's is just not true. You may indeed say that it's a good way to see how a player reacts far from home and blending in a different culture, but inside the pitch, though the Portuguese Big three could give the Brazilian teams a hard time, the rest are just below par
Most players from Argentina want to play in Italy and Spain because of heritage, customs, language and the fact that arguably the best players in the history of the game made their mark in Spain and Italy, namely Messi & Maradona (Both Argentine). England has always been a difficult league to go to because work permits were such a challenge to get for Argentine players. On that point, Spain and Italy were always easier in terms of bureaucracy because most players had family from there so they would not take a "foreign player" spot.
All players need to adapt to new cultures and languages and climates. Brazilians live in one of the best climates, always sunny, warm and close to the beach and England isnt even close to that. Let alone the language and the food.
The questions might be: How many "South American" players actually fail in the PL and how many excell?
Martinelli has adapted very well largely due to the support from David Luiz and Willian ,who helped him settle in and practice English. Being very young and Gen Z he also draws upon the youthful similarities in the Arsenal team so he can relate easier with his teammates. Arteta also able to speak Portuguese also helps, plus Edu.
Often a S.American has huge problems settling in England despite their talent,including those come from Europe-Veron,Heinze,Pique,
Torriera, Vivas etc
Did they really tutor him in English?
@@SoberbioNumeroUno Martinelli has been a project at arsenal for years now and it's finally paying off
Juninho settled in just fine a middlesbrough back in the days
Who told you that Arteta speaks portuguese? I highly doubt it. Unless he really likes to learn new languages and stuff. Id figure hes pretty busy to do that.
Being a Norwich City fan, I've never thought we'd sign a player direct from South America, but we got 2 in the last transfer window! Marcelino Nuñez has been amazing so far and we signed Gabriel Sara too who's looked promising but he's still gaining match fitnsss. Understandably we're in the championship so a lower league quality than the PL, but this did shine some light on why we scouted that part of the world 👍
Chilean here, Marcelino Núñez was a good player in our league (mid tier in South America, our teams always get crushed by argentinian and brazilian clubs) but he wasn't even the best!
Sure, we don't move a lot of money compared to european leagues but that's due to speculation on the european part, there are lots of great talents and that's why worse teams on paper often beat top tier european national teams (for example, Uruguay and Chile vs Portugal when they were champions of Europe).
The problem is not signing from SA directly, the problem is signing teenage WIP players with the hope of not missing on the next Neymar. South American players are being signed by clubs in Europe at ages as early as 18 to 16, before making any significant professional appearances, and being thrown at professional level football in Europe. They're not even formed human beings let alone professional football players.
It becomes clear why they do better when going first to a stepping-stone league like Portugal and why culture problems are so huge given their average age. The result for SA football is that Europe is killing a lot of potential good players just because the clubs have all the money to afford signing all of them, discarding who doesn't make the jump, and keeping the 2 or 3 that actually pan out to be great despite all the problems mentioned.
Sometimes I wish international transfers were banned, just for a few years, so clubs in SA would hopefully finally realize they're selling talent way too soon and for very little money. It amazes me that this is the norm considering the staggering amount of SA players making a difference in Europe. I mean, if you want an example just look at the latest CL final, 9 out of 28 players that were on the pitch at some point during the game were from SA, majority of those being Brazilians 🤯.
@@EduardoPolmann I'm not sure it's a matter of realizing, it's a matter of terrible management structures in SA clubs and an economic disadvantage. Any penny in Europe is worth a lot by SA market standards.
@@EduardoPolmann Teams in Brazil, at least, rely on selling young players to keep their balances in check, for example. And not always by a matter of need.
South American players that made the move to Portugal and from Portugal to Premier League or La Liga:
- Ederson
- David Luiz
- Ramires
- Di Maria
- Otamendi
- James Rodrigues
- Falcao
- Nico Gaitan
- Enzo Perez
- Eder Militão
- Luis Diaz
- Jackson Martinez
- Anderson
- Danilo (RB)
- Felipe
- Acuña
To name some. Not looking at players sold to other leagues and after making the "jump" to Premier or La Liga. And we are talking 15 years. This means that every year Liga Nos can produce 1 South American Player that is able to join those two leagues. You count them and see their nationality and you verify 60-70% of them aren't even Brazilian. It isn't simply a market that those leagues are looking forward to scout and risk. They prefer to wait for a Liga Nos side to invest their money, develop them, and pay 4-5-6x more in the next year or two.
This shows that Liga Nos, mainly the 3 big, Benfica, Porto, Sporting, playing in a Lower Level League, have a close Tactical Level compared to other top leagues and teams. This is also verified in some of the last results in European Campaigns:
- 20/21 Porto Quarter Finals of Champions League
- 21/22 Benfica Quarter Finals of Champions League
- 10/11 Porto vs Braga Europa League Final / Benfica Half-Finals
- 12/13 Benfica Finalists
- 13/14 Benfica Finalists
You can also verify this with some Managers:
- Espirito Santo
- Mourinho
- Bruno Lage
- Marco Silva
- Carlos Carvalhal
All were managers of 1 P.L. side.
This just to show that South American Players are able to have that big jump to Premier League or La Liga with ease. Not every South American player will become a Ronaldinho, Maradona, not even a James or Di Maria. There is risk involved in buying players. And the risk is higher the bigger the jump. Eredivisie, Liga Nos even Seria A are the best places to send your players to. They will play competitive domestic and european campaigns, have a good tactical development and will easier be able to join any side in the world if they are good.
WHat about neymar to barca?
The appearance of new leagues with greater economic power such as the mls, several leagues in the middle east or the brasileirao itself have also discouraged south american players from going to europe. Since it is usually more tempting to go to the United States or Brazil with a good salary than to go to a "small" club in Europe with a much greater culture shock.
Brighton have brought a large portion or there successive players from South America, Caicedo and Mac allister are now two main players on the team sheet
VINI JR (R.Madrid), REINIER (R.Madrid), ARTHUR (Barcelona), NEYMAR (Barcelona), OSCAR(Chelsea), PAQUETA (Milan), RODRYGO (R.Madrid). If we take back all south americans that have gone directly to europe, premier league would be more like to "not so premier league"...the amazing tactics and lack of supporters emotion would stay though.
Well, everybody is talking about Brazilian, Argentinian and Uruguayan players, so i'm going to speak about colombian players.
Juan Guillermo Cuadrado was signed by Udinese in 2012 when he was playing for Independiente Medellin and since that year he has ever played in Italy his whole carrer.
Yerri Mina was playing in Palmeiras and he was signed by Barcelona in 2018, now he is playing in Everton
David Ospina was signed by Nice in 2008 when he was playing in Atletico Nacional and then he was signed by Arsenal in 2014.
Faustino "El Tino" Asprilla was signed by Parma in 1992 when he was playing by Atletico Nacional
I just mentioned a few cases, and i'm just talking about players that passe from colombian or south american leagues to the top 5 european leagues, because if we count player that played in other leagues (like Portuguese league) before arriving the Big Leagues, the list never end, Falcao, James, Luis Díaz, etc
Cool. Hopefully we'll see more Colombian wonderkids in the Premier league.
Hopefully they don't flop like James Rodríguez
@@genekendrick679 Indeed. Though it's a bit of a push to describe 30 year old James Rodríguez as a wonderkid.
Real Madrid has other opinions, always signing the best Brazilians and Argentineans straight from the source
Lucas Leiva came directly from Brazil as well
South American players also prefer to play in La Liga or Serie A than in the Premier League. Less red-tape to play in these countries and easier to bring their families and the culture is similar. Also, clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Milan are more reverred in South America than Man United or Liverpool because of their track record and history with South Americans.
The are other players you missed as well like Arsenal’s Marquinhos (from Sao Paolo) and Man U’s Facundo Pellistri (from Peñarol). Younger talents similar to Martinelli that we have to see if they will reach same level as him.
Neither of them have made a Prem appearance that's why they weren't mentioned.
missed even Richarlison, who went to play for Watford at first. Now he is playing for Tottenham
LMAO the guy literally thinks the Portuguese league is at a higher level than the Brazilian one, ignoring the fact that so many outcasts from Brazil are sent there because they’re simply not good enough.
But what can I say? He is probably one those guys that thought Grealish and Maguire were top signings.
The Portugal league isn't a higuer quality league than brasilian, but Portugal team have acces to champions league and europa league. That is The diference.
English clubs aren't much clever by doing this. The only thing that they do is paying a premium for players that they could buy relatively cheaper.
Just imagine how much Real saved money by buying Vinícius Junior and Rodrigo directly from Brazil.
English clubs prefer to pay premiums for English players.
THIS. After they’ve played elsewhere and have gotten their rank up, now the prem clubs pay a premium instead of investing in their development. Meanwhile, Real Madrid hasn’t lost an ounce of sleep over signing directly from South America. It’s annoying, especially for fans of clubs who could desperately use some of the creativity and skill South American players possess.
I take it you are not aware of the Home Grown rule? That's why English (or British) players cost more.
@@johnmitchell2269
Then why doesn't uk have a Messi or a Pele?
South America is light years above you
The video is a bit elitist, in the sense that it frequently uses the "big six" teams to mas kthe fact that it is all about English clubs not signing directly from Sout America.
However, while I agree with the fact that the step up in competition is a valid point, the rest of the arguments fall apart very quickly. Specially the very particular one about EPL being more tactical evolved than the Portuguese league, for example. If anything, portuguese clubs step up to the "big six" on the Champions League due to their superior tactic level above everything else, losing to the "big six" due to their finantial incapability of securing talent and poorer league quality.
And then we arrive at the main point that allows the english clubs to be somehow "elitist" and let SA players "stage" in minor leagues before signing them: money. If you take into consideration the fact that the very last club from the Premier League receives 100M£ of prize money just for being in the league, that's about 25% of Real Madrid's and 50% os Barcelona's (reported) tranfer budgets. Just for being in the league!
Final note: to add to the fallacious "tactical quality" argument of the Premier League, just think about the amount of english/England-grown players who have succeeded in other leagues and vice versa...
well I agree with a lot but we have 5 world cups, so you gotta respect that, England with all your brilliant tatics got one
After Endrick's (Palmeiras 16 years old forward) signing with Real Madrid - he will only leave Brazil in 2024 -, I had to come back to this video to write again. Once again: the english clubs can't compete with Real Madrid and Barcelona, because all of the brazilian great players want to play there. It's not only because you need to test them in lower leagues; it's because they can't sign a promising player leaving Real Madrid behind.
Technical correction re: D Luiz
He didn’t play for City entirely for WP reasons. He wasn’t able to qualify for a work permit when we initially signed him hence why he was loaned to Girona (a city group team) after that loan he still didn’t qualify for a WP. One of the ways for him to get a WP whilst not being a regular in the Brazil squad was having a significant transfer value, hence why Villa were able to get him a WP. Looking at how he plays it looks like he wouldn’t have cut the cloth at City but he’s certainly a decent mid-table PL mid.
nice illustrations and content
COYG
I think the biggest issue, when it comes to England, is work permits. Unless you have a global system to feed players into for development (Man City, Red Bull), signing South Americans is difficult because they won't get admitted into the country. Those that do are usually snapped up by Spanish and Portuguese sides, because no language barrier, greater cultural similarity, and for South Americans a club like Benfica, the Madrid clubs, or Barca has more pulling power than a EPL or German club. Also add in, Brazilian clubs will sell players with the potential to go overseas at 18 (and it used to be younger). And you have an inherent disadvantage for English, Italian, and German sides.
So I'd say these others are their excuses. But the real issue is inherent recruitment disadvantages.
I agree with you, and in addition I think Brazilian players knows and like Italian clubs and culture too, because we used to watch the Serie A on TV. But it’s changing here and the EPL have gotten a big space in our tv programs much because of players like Jesus, Alisson, Ederson, Richarlison, Raphinha, Coutinho… and I guess in the future the EPL clubs will be more confident to sign with Brazilian players directly from our league because the Brazilian league level is growing up.
@@leonardobaptista6636 True. But the Work Permit issue in England will always be a barrier against non-International players entering England.
There are more non European players at Watford than European players.
It isn't true that the portuguese league has a low tactical level.
Sure it has lower quality than top leagues but tactically is equally demanding if not even more.
There's Marquinhos from São Paulo, who signed directly by Arsenal. Also scored in his debut in Europa League
So south Amerca is such a myth that you even erase a part of the map of Argentina? This is sad for a channel that attemps to seem serious with it's analysis
tierra del fuego? inexcusable
Real Madrid have signed Marcelo, Vinicius, Rodrygo, and Valverde all directly from South America.
This is why premier league teams, despite being the biggest spenders, continue to underachieve in international tournaments.
Real Madrid bought Rodrygo, Valverde and Vinicius Jr all directly from South America for a combined total of 95 million euros, meanwhile Manchester City and Chelsea sign Grealish and Lukaku for around 115 million each. There’s no rule, just good and bad management and scouting😉
Jesus is Alexis Sanchez 2.0 came in from a superteam has decent g/a but became a superstar after joining Arsenal
Sanchez 2016 g/a in league is one of the best individual seasons ever
Never thought about that 😅
Nah bro Sanchez was a different level when he arrived
a needed change. it seems like they need to be on the spotlight to really shine, which they didn't had in their respectives Guardiola's team. Hope Arsenal does well this season.
Arsenal also just signed Marquinhos. Excited to see what he can do once the cup competitions start, especially since Arteta says he’s not going out on loan.
I don't expect much of Marquinhos until year 3. We need to let him develop in peace and slowly bring him through cup games first.
Once the Brazilian league is reformed and they start keeping their players, it will completely change world football and become a top 2 league.
Willian came back for brazil and here he was a reserve with low level. Also america teams have more FIFA Club World Cup than premier league and america with 3 countries have more world cups than all europe.
"Don't buy directly from South America" is a biased move wrapped in layers and layers of ifs, buts and maybes.
Nobody ever comes out with their chest saying they are bigoted; they find reasons and justifications that sound just balanced enough to make you believe their hubris.
I hope Pellestri is able to step up to the PL.
City also signed Marlos Moreno, a very talented Colombian player but loaned him to low level teams. He is currently playing in France's Ligue 2
He was never talented. He sucks. One of the worst players to ever play for Flamengo.
It's funny how the Premier League lovers keep saying the same thing about the South American talents. First of all, in Brazil the players don't think that the best clubs of the world are placed in England. Most of brazilian great players played for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter and Milan. So, the next talents have great chances to choose Real Madrid, Barcelona rather than an english team.
Second: english players are not used to play outside of the UK, so they don't want to learn a different language and engage in different cultures - but they expect the brazilians and argentinians to be adapt perfectly in one week.
This rule or this 'Premier League understanding' is what makes Real Madrid fight for title years after years. They believe in South American talent. They know how to treat them.
Premier League is a great tournament. Really nice to watch. But for many years the top 3 players weren't there: Ronaldo, Messi, Kaká, Lewandowski, Neymar, Modric, Mbappe.
While the Premier League teams wait for a player to go to a middle european league, clubs like Feeyenord paid 6M on Igor Paixão, so some of the english clubs can pay 20M after a few years. And they have already spent 100M on Grealish.
South American clubs would never, ever pay even half of that for Grealish - not even if they had that money. Great players are born everyday around here.
first ever world champion: uruguay 🇺🇾
most times world champion: brazil 🇧🇷
current world champion: argentina 🇦🇷
I have literally never heard this myth...
If the South American leagues are lower level? Why was the Brazilian league chosen this year as the best league in the world? Dictated by the ffhs
Can someone explain the points system?