I can definitely validate this! I bought two Auline 4s Lion packs for my Dji goggles to run on. I been charging them on 1.5/2.amps Lipo settings at 4.2v and it has reduced there life significantly. Versus two other 4s Samsung 18650 packs i built at the same time I bought the Auline packs.I been charging the Samsung 4s packs on strictly on Lion 4.1v .And now the Samsung packs out performed the Auline packs. So it definitely reduces the packs life span. Good video Bruce!
Finally, someone else telling people this information about Li-Ion. Been telling people this for years, and for some reason they wont listen and still charge to 4.2v and discharge to 3v and expect 500+ life cycle but will be lucky to hit a hundred - and then complain!, where as a 90% charge and 30% discharge (even 20%) will hit 800+ cycles easily.
Thanks man that was a great informational video. I am using a pro range 3s2p 5000mah 18650 battery pack for my underwater rov project and do not have a dedicated li ion charger, fortunately my college has a li po balance charger so i can temporarily make use of that and charge my battery at 3amps. Thanks a lot man!!
Very informative Bruce, when I saw the 'Ad in 5 secs' pop up I thought this isn't right then the Patreon Zapper appeared 👍Brilliant stuff, perhaps a zap sound effect would be good as well 😁
Yeah me too! My iCharger allows me to up the end voltage to 4.2 with a little warning label next to it. So I'm going to charge my LiIon pack on LiIon charge mode but up the end voltage to 4.2/cell.
Good explanation , for more punch I can recomment the Molicel INR21700-P-42A . Of course the weight is a bit higher but you can pull 45 A constant/peak 70A with 4000mah capacity. In the 18650 category the VTC6 with 30 A and 3000mah is best choice imo.
Regarding long range, rcg guy gtrick90, built a 4S2P (4s-7000) pack and put it in his wing wing z84 (840mm foam wing), he flew a ardupilot autonomous mission over the ocean, 50 miles out, and 50 miles back (100 miles total) in 4 hours, with a quad 1750kv motor, pretty impressive.
You my friend are always informative and that's so much for your time spent putting these video's out . I've learned a lot of good things over the years watching your youtube . You are the best my friend !
Most new lipo chargers can be changed in settings for the cut off voltage and also charge voltage comes mostly to temperature hotter conditions mean higher peaks on packs. Thanx for all the vids xjet 🤙
Extremely informative. Was just charging my my traxxas 3c lipo, and I noted that pack bloated a slight amount. I quickly disconnected it and made a salt water bath for it. It was a used battery given to me, so I don't know it's history. I went to the local hobby shop and even the attendant there said how much he hates lipo batteries. I agreed as I have a nimh pack I purchased in 2012 that I still can use today. I maintained it properly, and my cc02 with its sport tuned motor gives me about 1h45m dive time consistently. I asked the dude if he sold li-on batteries. He said no, and didn't know if they made them for rc or not. I may go and look for some. My aged onyx 5000mah 7.2 nimh pack is showing its age slightly, and now I am down a traxxas pack. So I may be doing some battery hunting.
Charging to 4.1V extends longterm life significantly. Thinkpad notebooks have a software where you can limit the charge. I set it to 80% max. and after 8 years still had 2h runtime. Regular users have 50% runtime after 2 years.
A lengthy post. If you don't want to read all of it, at least check the links further down. The two battery types you are calling Li-ion and Li-polymer are the same thing, just in different form factors. That form factor (and therefore different internal construction) is the main reason for the different current capabilities. There are cylindrical cells available that can easily provide currents in the tens of amp like a pouch cell, because their internal construction is designed for that. The pouch cells, that so many erroneously call li-polymer, are just "li-ion polymer" cells, because they are wrapped in a plastic (=polymer) package as opposed to being in a metal can. Real li-polymer batteries (where the electrolyte is a polymer and not an organic or water based solvent) have yet to come out of the research phase. The reason for that perpetuated error is the same marketing people who are now labeling everything "graphene", while the batteries are not really any different inside and have contained graphite for decades. But tell a marketing person that graphite is a lot of layers of carbon (a single layer of it essentially being graphene), all they hear is the buzzword "graphene" and they will sell the batteries to you as the new great invention, while all real graphene based batteries are still in a research phase. Pouch and cylindrical cells can have different chemistry, but so can cylindrical cells between them and pouch cells between them. Again, the form factor is not what dictates the chemistry, what the manufacturer puts in them is. You can have the same chemistry in either form factor. Have you ever seen something like IMR, INR, ICR, IFR, LMO, NMC, NCA, NCO, LCO or LFP written on cylindrical cells or in their datasheet? Those signify different chemistries. Pouch cells use the same, although they mostly use the Lithium-cobalt-oxide chemistry (ICR/LCO). Maybe these links help (no need me repeating what is out there and explained already): batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/88881030-5-common-lithium-ion-battery-myths-explained (myth #2) batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/the_li_polymer_battery_substance_or_hype (especially paragraph 4 onwards) Or from a battery component supplier (just lists can, case or pouch as packaging. no mention of liion/lipo distinction.): www.targray.com/li-ion-battery In video form: czcams.com/video/OlBZ51QLEfs/video.html Cylindrical cells have the advantage of sturdiness, can't puff (but would as any pouch cell, if it weren't a metal can), (currently still) cheaper manufacturing, easier automated assembly into packs and have usually less issues with dissipating heat. Pouch cells are lighter, are more customizeable in size and shape (especially thin cells), better use of space and usually with higher current capability. Those are the reasons why you pick one form factor over the other.
Thanks Bruce! My iCharger allows me to up the end voltage to 4.2 with a little warning label next to it. So I'm going to charge my LiIon pack on LiIon charge mode but up the end voltage to 4.2/cell.
Spot on, import addition is storing fully charged is very bad for battery so store at 50% and charge just before use is best,requires some planning and not always practical but most damage is done to a cell whilst sitting fully charged for long periods.
Awesome info Bruce and LiPo/Lilo/LiFe safety should always be #1!! People if you've ever seen a fully charged 6S 5500 Mah battery go up....It's frightening......! ***EDIT*** Most of my Li-Ion packs are protected by a small circuit on the battery itself (So they are slightly longer) so it doesn't really include me as I have an extra level of protection built in with mine. I've always used the appropriate settings as I didn't know, the chemistry had changed slightly with Lithium-Ion batteries (18650's etc) Never really do long range stuff... too scared I'll lose a model lol. I use them in near everything... torches/work lights.. cheap chinaquads (Great conversion!!!), battery banks. I did learn something today though...lol. Check the batteries data sheet.! Well if I'm not mistaken, most electric cars use these cells in massive banks to power them.. (As having one huge battery unit, under the occupants of said car would literally be a class action waiting to happen...) Let's not forget the humble Laptop computer. Powering those, for what 25+ years? Solid advice, as always mate and Thank you...
Many modern chargers let you tweak the desired end voltage for each battery type. So for example on my ISDT charger I can set my LiPo batteries to charge to a maximum of 4.15V. I always do that when charging the night before flying because the less time spent at 100% the better. It only makes a difference of a few seconds of flight time but the batteries will likely have a much better lifespan. My best batteries are LiHV (4.35V per cell) that I have never charged above about 4.20V. They are 4 years old seem like new.
Great video, I’m new to the hobby and this helped me out a lot . Batteries are too expensive to burn them up because of a lack of knowledge. Thanks for the great video
I've been vaping for over 5 years now. I use only the 18650 batteries. I found out that if you want your battery/s to have a long life? Charge them at 4.2 Volt 500 milliamp. Constant current, constant voltage. Let them cool off first before charging. Can you charge them faster? Sure you can, At the cost of the batteries lifespan! If you don't like waiting for the slower charge of 4 hrs. BUY MORE BATTERIES! You can learn a lot at the Battery University website!👍🇺🇸
I like because you can make your own. So if bad cell. Easly and way safer than lipo. Take care of your battery's they will take Care of you. Be safe around battery's! Anyone reading This.. God bless
Bruce, Have you tried the Molicell P45’s ? I’m building some 3 and 4s packs soon. They have yielded impressive results for the ducted fan gurus. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge.
Also, if you charge the night before you fly, I charge my LiPo's on Li-Ion setting, so the pack is not sitting 12 hours at 4.2V. My original TG 4s-1300-65c packs have over 1200 cycles in my Raptor 5" quad (peaks 120amps) and i fly for 90 sec and they end up around 3.85v, perfect for storage. Those packs still work great for planes and now have 2100 cycles on them, they are now 4 years old. Treat them well or buy more, your choice. And regarding Li-Ion charging to 4.2v, monitor the cells closely first cycle, if they get warm, they are not happy.
I believe the real world effects can be seen from a marketing and profit standpoint these days. I often see various cheap RC stuff sold where the charger requires a special CC limited unit that plugs into USB, but the other end is a standard plug so many people out there could likely get confused and bypass the special charger altogether. This would result in small cells being charged very quickly, likely at least 1A but probably more.. and this duration would not be long because the cell would become fully charged quickly and begin to draw the lower current levels in a short period of time. This has apparently been safe enough in the consumer world to not cause safety issues, and beneficial enough in the corporate world where it requires people buy more batteries faster.
Off this topic slightly but a few years ago I had a cheap 4 port 6a turnigy charger and towards the end of it’s life it started charging lipo’s to 4.4.3-4.4v and at first I took advantage, as I was mostly doing speed run’s! but unfortunately the cheaper batteries like red backs and zippys didn’t last long! but a futaba align battery and some Traxxas batteries are still tight after many years.
Thank you so much for explaining this. Surprisingly, there's not a lot of details on this when searching the internet. I made a pack with some Epoch batteries. They are 2800 mAh Epoch cells, with 40A discharge. I used 12, running two parallel pairs of 6 cells in series. It gave me a 5600 mAh pack, with 80A discharge (or about 14.25C). After all was said and done, I knew that these batteries could be charged to 4.2V, but my brain still wanted to pick the Li-Ion Program on my charger.
just found this vid because I wanted to know what ppl charger their "modern" liIons at. I often set 4.18 as endVolts - since those last 0.02v seem to take forever on the VTC6 at least. I have a huge list of 6S packs for 7" longrange drones now - and I noticed that LiPoHV have a pretty decent WH to weight ratio - close to the LiIon ones! Do you have experience with HV lipos? Is the overcharging to 4.35 very bad for those cells (even if they are made for this - it's probbably just a marketing thing and they will wear out sooner than normal Lipos?) thanks greets, Mario
One thing I've heard regarding extending the lifetime of the lithium battery is to only charge it to 80% and not let it go below 20%. When I can remember to, I do this with my mobile phone because I want its battery to last years more still, and I'm confident it will because its capacity is 10300mAh :) (yes it's a brick of a phone that weighs 360g but I love how one charge lasts days of use)
My phone has a setting in the battery menu that when enabled will stop charging the battery when it reaches 85% to extend battery life. It is a Samsung A42. I don't if it is unique to this phone or common on many phones.
Hello Bruce, thanks for this video. very clear. However I wish to know how do you connect the wires with the connector to the lithium batteries f these are still separate, please?
SD cards often go missing eh! I heard that someone found yours and posted the footage on their channel (with a disclaimer that it's not theirs of course).
My "Vape specific" type chargers have always charged to 4.2, just checking my "Gyrfalcon All-88" now.. clearly says "LI-ION" and batteries currently in are sitting at 4.2, never seen this 4.1 in the 6yrs of me using 18650s & 21700s (not for RC), but then it's a dedicated charger for just single cells of various sizes not an "RC specific" styled multi-cell charger.. interesting to note, if I ever make a pack I'll b sure to put it on Li-Po if my charger only goes to 4.1
Yup. And yet, my lipo charger's liion setting by default cuts off at 4.1v. But that's only the default. Like on RCModelReviews' charger, mine also has the option to change the cut off voltage. So I could set it to li-ion and set the cut off to 4.2v. And the real question of this video, that he didn't answer is: Is that any different to the standard lipo setting?
Hey Bruce have you seen the lipo powered mini spot welders for making li-ion packs that have been showing up on Bangood and elsewhere lately? They typically cost $30-$50 and from what I have seen on various CZcams reviews they actually work well.
@ RCModelReviews I have a Li ion 500mAh 7.4 battery and I have the ISDT 608AC charger, what settings should I use to charge my buttery at? On my screen it has… Task- Charging, Chemistry- Lilon, Condition- 4.10V, Cells- 2S, Current-0.5A
Absolutely! It just depends on your use again. I mostly charge my FPV batteries to 4.2v just because the super short flight times but a lot of my RC car batteries I usually only charge to 4.1v since RC cars last so long on a charge.
@@JimBoomer Excellent, thanks! I was a bit concerned because LiPo's have a specific charge cycle but if it's the same just with different terminal voltages then I'll give it a go.
Yes, all Lithium batteries use the simple CC-CV charging method, so it is basically just a power supply with current and voltage limits (and BMS/balancer for multi cell). Most chargers allow to set the current and realize the voltage limit in these LiXX profiles, but on some you can also configure custom voltage limits, that is the only differences between profiles. PB is similar, only NiMH charging is completely different (delta peak detection). A downside with lower voltage limits is that it takes more time, even though it puts less energy in. Depending on the internal cell resistance it will spend much more time in the CV phase and low current. That is why like to use 4.2V instead, but stop charging early, then the cell voltage drops down to about 4.1V after a few seconds. Still charge it fully from time to time and let the balancer do it's job to make the cells equal. This trick is often used in modern consumer electronics, the battery controller monitors the pack capacity and stops the charging already when the expected capacity is reached, to skip the lengthy CV phase for the last few percent and improve longevity at least a bit with lower idle voltages. They go up to 4.4V while charging though, which wipes out all longevity improvements there...
Thanks so much , allway great info!!! Also I don't have a lion charge so good I can use my old lipo charge but just 1/2 C,,, got it...Merry Christmas,,,or Happy Solstice,,, or anual gift day...lol thanks Man, come fly with me in Sacramento and I got free tacos for you!
what would you recommend for those battery for setting SONY VTC6 18650 high quality cells from flywoo exlorer and also for storage what would you recommend ? Thanks
If my Li-Ion cells start to get above 22mOhm then I consider them to be getting tired. Of course when measured on *my* charger -- different brand chargers can produce wildly different figures for internal resistance because it's a figure that depends very much on the state of charge and the current being used to measure that IR.
@@RCModelReviews Hello! This is a great video! Regarding to the internal resistance, I found the value is different when in charging and not in charging. So which one should we take care of? And at which value, for LiPo and Lion, should we need to consider replacing them? Thank you!
@7:55 It's not that lithium-ion lasts longer than lithium-polymer but the form they are packaged. What you are comparing is pouch cells vs cylinder cells. Even with the exact same chemistry cylindrical cells will generally last much longer. The reason is that most pouch-type cells suffer from delamination long before degrading chemically as there is nothing substantial to keep the layers in good contact with each other. Any gas that is generated collects in pockets between the layers pushing them apart thus reducing the active surface, reducing capacity and increasing internal resistance. With cylindrical cells this cannot happen except in extreme overheating situations. The metal cylindrical shell is strong enough to prevent the layers from being pushed apart causing the excess gas to find its way out of the cell rather than pushing the layers apart. The disadvantage of cylindrical cells is of course that they are considerably heavier for a given capacity and will usually have a lower C rating due both to their much smaller outer surface area as well as higher internal resistance due to having one long continuous set of plates rather than many layers paralleled. (The latter issue has been solved recently by Tesla but AFAIK no one else is using that solution)
Hi Bruce I just bought the 3100mAh jeti packs they are two cell but there is no balance lead how the hell do I balance them ,, hope your all well, my sister is in New Zealand now she's a theatre sister on North Island hospital thanks for the video, Steve
Have you ever done a video on knee voltage, or why a battery's voltage per cell drops instantly when you stop charging it? Eg. Charge to 4.20V per cell, then you stop the charge and they immediately drop down to 4.17V each.
how can this video be made at the PERFECT time for my new lion packs!
Thanks Bruce! you rock
Only battery to fly long distance..
@@sleepingbearffg5008 why only? I can fly 6km + and 20minuts with gopro on a lipo
lion 🦁
it's li-ion
@@jeramboo8511 well this is two years late, but with Li-on packs, I'm doing close to 20km, 30 minute flights cruising at 110mph
I can definitely validate this! I bought two Auline 4s Lion packs for my Dji goggles to run on. I been charging them on 1.5/2.amps Lipo settings at 4.2v and it has reduced there life significantly. Versus two other 4s Samsung 18650 packs i built at the same time I bought the Auline packs.I been charging the Samsung 4s packs on strictly on Lion 4.1v .And now the Samsung packs out performed the Auline packs. So it definitely reduces the packs life span.
Good video Bruce!
Pretty nifty pack you have built up there Bruce. It needs a "Xjet rules" label.
👍
I have soldered my first 21700 - 6S pack thanks to your tips :D
Finally, someone else telling people this information about Li-Ion. Been telling people this for years, and for some reason they wont listen and still charge to 4.2v and discharge to 3v and expect 500+ life cycle but will be lucky to hit a hundred - and then complain!, where as a 90% charge and 30% discharge (even 20%) will hit 800+ cycles easily.
I've just started using Li-Ion packs and wondered about all of the conflicting information. Thanks a lot Bruce, for once again clarifying things
Thanks man that was a great informational video. I am using a pro range 3s2p 5000mah 18650 battery pack for my underwater rov project and do not have a dedicated li ion charger, fortunately my college has a li po balance charger so i can temporarily make use of that and charge my battery at 3amps. Thanks a lot man!!
thanks again from canada i just got the zohd li ion pack and didnt know wat was goin on huge help thank u Bruce
Thanks Bruce, that's quite clear and has explained why I have only got 87% out of my first Li Ion battery charge. Thanks mate. Mick UK
Thanks for the info. It was good to see that I can charge my li-ion battery on my lipo charger that does not have provisions to charge li-ion packs.
Very informative Bruce, when I saw the 'Ad in 5 secs' pop up I thought this isn't right then the Patreon Zapper appeared 👍Brilliant stuff, perhaps a zap sound effect would be good as well 😁
Good to know! Thank you for educating me!
Thanks for sharing! Was just about to charge my first Li-Ion and I saw the 4.1 end voltage and I had to do some research
Yeah me too! My iCharger allows me to up the end voltage to 4.2 with a little warning label next to it. So I'm going to charge my LiIon pack on LiIon charge mode but up the end voltage to 4.2/cell.
Good explanation , for more punch I can recomment the Molicel INR21700-P-42A . Of course the weight is a bit higher but you can pull 45 A constant/peak 70A with 4000mah capacity. In the 18650 category the VTC6 with 30 A and 3000mah is best choice imo.
Handy info from a trusted source sauce you choose hehe
Regarding long range, rcg guy gtrick90, built a 4S2P (4s-7000) pack and put it in his wing wing z84 (840mm foam wing), he flew a ardupilot autonomous mission over the ocean, 50 miles out, and 50 miles back (100 miles total) in 4 hours, with a quad 1750kv motor, pretty impressive.
You my friend are always informative and that's so much for your time spent putting these video's out . I've learned a lot of good things over the years watching your youtube . You are the best my friend !
Thank's so much !
Very very helpful.
Please keep on the good work!!
Cheers from Auckland and Kia Kaha
Most new lipo chargers can be changed in settings for the cut off voltage and also charge voltage comes mostly to temperature hotter conditions mean higher peaks on packs. Thanx for all the vids xjet 🤙
Thats not whats it about.
Great tips, Bruce! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Extremely informative. Was just charging my my traxxas 3c lipo, and I noted that pack bloated a slight amount. I quickly disconnected it and made a salt water bath for it. It was a used battery given to me, so I don't know it's history. I went to the local hobby shop and even the attendant there said how much he hates lipo batteries. I agreed as I have a nimh pack I purchased in 2012 that I still can use today. I maintained it properly, and my cc02 with its sport tuned motor gives me about 1h45m dive time consistently.
I asked the dude if he sold li-on batteries. He said no, and didn't know if they made them for rc or not. I may go and look for some. My aged onyx 5000mah 7.2 nimh pack is showing its age slightly, and now I am down a traxxas pack. So I may be doing some battery hunting.
Charging to 4.1V extends longterm life significantly. Thinkpad notebooks have a software where you can limit the charge. I set it to 80% max. and after 8 years still had 2h runtime. Regular users have 50% runtime after 2 years.
Thanks for sharing this Bruce. 👍
Super advice Bruce as always. Keep on with the good work.
Charge on lipo settings with those cell for years no issues,but I do agree with the information in this video 😊
Thank you so much! This is exactly the video I needed and answered all the questions I had plus more!
A lengthy post. If you don't want to read all of it, at least check the links further down.
The two battery types you are calling Li-ion and Li-polymer are the same thing, just in different form factors. That form factor (and therefore different internal construction) is the main reason for the different current capabilities. There are cylindrical cells available that can easily provide currents in the tens of amp like a pouch cell, because their internal construction is designed for that. The pouch cells, that so many erroneously call li-polymer, are just "li-ion polymer" cells, because they are wrapped in a plastic (=polymer) package as opposed to being in a metal can.
Real li-polymer batteries (where the electrolyte is a polymer and not an organic or water based solvent) have yet to come out of the research phase. The reason for that perpetuated error is the same marketing people who are now labeling everything "graphene", while the batteries are not really any different inside and have contained graphite for decades. But tell a marketing person that graphite is a lot of layers of carbon (a single layer of it essentially being graphene), all they hear is the buzzword "graphene" and they will sell the batteries to you as the new great invention, while all real graphene based batteries are still in a research phase.
Pouch and cylindrical cells can have different chemistry, but so can cylindrical cells between them and pouch cells between them. Again, the form factor is not what dictates the chemistry, what the manufacturer puts in them is. You can have the same chemistry in either form factor. Have you ever seen something like IMR, INR, ICR, IFR, LMO, NMC, NCA, NCO, LCO or LFP written on cylindrical cells or in their datasheet? Those signify different chemistries. Pouch cells use the same, although they mostly use the Lithium-cobalt-oxide chemistry (ICR/LCO).
Maybe these links help (no need me repeating what is out there and explained already):
batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/88881030-5-common-lithium-ion-battery-myths-explained (myth #2)
batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/the_li_polymer_battery_substance_or_hype (especially paragraph 4 onwards)
Or from a battery component supplier (just lists can, case or pouch as packaging. no mention of liion/lipo distinction.): www.targray.com/li-ion-battery
In video form: czcams.com/video/OlBZ51QLEfs/video.html
Cylindrical cells have the advantage of sturdiness, can't puff (but would as any pouch cell, if it weren't a metal can), (currently still) cheaper manufacturing, easier automated assembly into packs and have usually less issues with dissipating heat. Pouch cells are lighter, are more customizeable in size and shape (especially thin cells), better use of space and usually with higher current capability. Those are the reasons why you pick one form factor over the other.
Very interesting, thanks. 👍
What a very beautiful and informative vlog!!! Thank you sir!!
That was super helpful thankyou
Spot on Bruce, great presentation and info.
I’ve been waiting for this video for so long!
Thanks Bruce! My iCharger allows me to up the end voltage to 4.2 with a little warning label next to it. So I'm going to charge my LiIon pack on LiIon charge mode but up the end voltage to 4.2/cell.
Your videos are the best! Thnx learned a lot
Spot on, import addition is storing fully charged is very bad for battery so store at 50% and charge just before use is best,requires some planning and not always practical but most damage is done to a cell whilst sitting fully charged for long periods.
Top man Bruce.
Excellent info mate. Cheers. 👍🍻
Awesome info Bruce and LiPo/Lilo/LiFe safety should always be #1!!
People if you've ever seen a fully charged 6S 5500 Mah battery go up....It's frightening......!
***EDIT*** Most of my Li-Ion packs are protected by a small circuit on the battery itself (So they are slightly longer) so it doesn't really include me as I have an extra level of protection built in with mine.
I've always used the appropriate settings as I didn't know, the chemistry had changed slightly with Lithium-Ion batteries (18650's etc)
Never really do long range stuff... too scared I'll lose a model lol.
I use them in near everything... torches/work lights.. cheap chinaquads (Great conversion!!!), battery banks.
I did learn something today though...lol. Check the batteries data sheet.!
Well if I'm not mistaken, most electric cars use these cells in massive banks to power them..
(As having one huge battery unit, under the occupants of said car would literally be a class action waiting to happen...)
Let's not forget the humble Laptop computer. Powering those, for what 25+ years?
Solid advice, as always mate and Thank you...
Many modern chargers let you tweak the desired end voltage for each battery type. So for example on my ISDT charger I can set my LiPo batteries to charge to a maximum of 4.15V. I always do that when charging the night before flying because the less time spent at 100% the better. It only makes a difference of a few seconds of flight time but the batteries will likely have a much better lifespan.
My best batteries are LiHV (4.35V per cell) that I have never charged above about 4.20V. They are 4 years old seem like new.
All your video are very useful ad thoughtful. Thanks for this as well.
Great Info thank you.
Using a script!! Love it! Thanks, Bruce.
Love this, thank you!
Great video, I’m new to the hobby and this helped me out a lot . Batteries are too expensive to burn them up because of a lack of knowledge. Thanks for the great video
Looking forward to part two of the outlaw
Thanks for all this info!
Thank you very much! I was really needing to know that!
Thanks, good knowledge!
Good Tutorial Bruce....
Great informational video. Thank you
Thank you for making this video!
I've been vaping for over 5 years now. I use only the 18650 batteries. I found out that if you want your battery/s to have a long life? Charge them at 4.2 Volt 500 milliamp. Constant current, constant voltage.
Let them cool off first before charging.
Can you charge them faster?
Sure you can, At the cost of the batteries lifespan!
If you don't like waiting for the slower charge of 4 hrs.
BUY MORE BATTERIES!
You can learn a lot at the Battery University website!👍🇺🇸
Great video! Please make more
Just in time, my lion pack arrive tomorrow! Thanks
Thanks a lot to clarify on this
Wow!
Very helpful.
Thank you
I like because you can make your own. So if bad cell. Easly and way safer than lipo. Take care of your battery's they will take Care of you. Be safe around battery's! Anyone reading This.. God bless
Keep on the good RC work
I am welding 21700 and yt suggests me this video 😁
On the Isdt chargers you can change final charge voltage in the different battery settings. Final voltage is key not what profile you use on charger.
I like recovering knackered packs on a nicad setting when im feeling dangerous and a little cheap
Thanks that information that's really helpful to everyone......! =)
Almost in a perfect timing💯⚡
Very helpful video 👍 great information.
Nice one Bruce!!
Bruce, Have you tried the Molicell P45’s ? I’m building some 3 and 4s packs soon. They have yielded impressive results for the ducted fan gurus. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge.
I learned something, thanks!
Love you Bruce! :D
Very useful info. Thanks.
Thanks for the information I have two battery chargers neither one has a setting for lithium-ion. Only for Lithium Polymer.
Also, if you charge the night before you fly, I charge my LiPo's on Li-Ion setting, so the pack is not sitting 12 hours at 4.2V. My original TG 4s-1300-65c packs have over 1200 cycles in my Raptor 5" quad (peaks 120amps) and i fly for 90 sec and they end up around 3.85v, perfect for storage. Those packs still work great for planes and now have 2100 cycles on them, they are now 4 years old. Treat them well or buy more, your choice. And regarding Li-Ion charging to 4.2v, monitor the cells closely first cycle, if they get warm, they are not happy.
I believe the real world effects can be seen from a marketing and profit standpoint these days. I often see various cheap RC stuff sold where the charger requires a special CC limited unit that plugs into USB, but the other end is a standard plug so many people out there could likely get confused and bypass the special charger altogether. This would result in small cells being charged very quickly, likely at least 1A but probably more.. and this duration would not be long because the cell would become fully charged quickly and begin to draw the lower current levels in a short period of time. This has apparently been safe enough in the consumer world to not cause safety issues, and beneficial enough in the corporate world where it requires people buy more batteries faster.
Off this topic slightly but a few years ago I had a cheap 4 port 6a turnigy charger and towards the end of it’s life it started charging lipo’s to 4.4.3-4.4v and at first I took advantage, as I was mostly doing speed run’s! but unfortunately the cheaper batteries like red backs and zippys didn’t last long! but a futaba align battery and some Traxxas batteries are still tight after many years.
Thank you so much for explaining this. Surprisingly, there's not a lot of details on this when searching the internet. I made a pack with some Epoch batteries. They are 2800 mAh Epoch cells, with 40A discharge. I used 12, running two parallel pairs of 6 cells in series. It gave me a 5600 mAh pack, with 80A discharge (or about 14.25C). After all was said and done, I knew that these batteries could be charged to 4.2V, but my brain still wanted to pick the Li-Ion Program on my charger.
Please do a video on LTO batteries. I would like to hear your opinion abut them.
thanks for that
Very nice video!
That's useful thanks much
just found this vid because I wanted to know what ppl charger their "modern" liIons at. I often set 4.18 as endVolts - since those last 0.02v seem to take forever on the VTC6 at least.
I have a huge list of 6S packs for 7" longrange drones now - and I noticed that LiPoHV have a pretty decent WH to weight ratio - close to the LiIon ones!
Do you have experience with HV lipos? Is the overcharging to 4.35 very bad for those cells (even if they are made for this - it's probbably just a marketing thing and they will wear out sooner than normal Lipos?)
thanks greets, Mario
One thing I've heard regarding extending the lifetime of the lithium battery is to only charge it to 80% and not let it go below 20%. When I can remember to, I do this with my mobile phone because I want its battery to last years more still, and I'm confident it will because its capacity is 10300mAh :) (yes it's a brick of a phone that weighs 360g but I love how one charge lasts days of use)
My phone has a setting in the battery menu that when enabled will stop charging the battery when it reaches 85% to extend battery life. It is a Samsung A42. I don't if it is unique to this phone or common on many phones.
Service _"Maintenance"_ is more important aspect in my book mate....
Very interesting thank you for information
This is great. There just isn't enough info out there about batteries. You may have just saved someone's house from burning down!
@@HVM_fi hahahahaha
Hello Bruce, thanks for this video. very clear. However I wish to know how do you connect the wires with the connector to the lithium batteries f these are still separate, please?
Nice
Great information. When are you going to put up your review of the Jumper T Lite?
Probably this week... unfortunately I lost an SD card with lots of my review stuff on it so I'm re-shooting stuff :(
@@RCModelReviews great news, not that you lost your SD card but that it's coming. Enjoy your Sunday evening!
SD cards often go missing eh! I heard that someone found yours and posted the footage on their channel (with a disclaimer that it's not theirs of course).
Cool
My "Vape specific" type chargers have always charged to 4.2, just checking my "Gyrfalcon All-88" now.. clearly says "LI-ION" and batteries currently in are sitting at 4.2, never seen this 4.1 in the 6yrs of me using 18650s & 21700s (not for RC), but then it's a dedicated charger for just single cells of various sizes not an "RC specific" styled multi-cell charger.. interesting to note, if I ever make a pack I'll b sure to put it on Li-Po if my charger only goes to 4.1
Yup. And yet, my lipo charger's liion setting by default cuts off at 4.1v. But that's only the default. Like on RCModelReviews' charger, mine also has the option to change the cut off voltage. So I could set it to li-ion and set the cut off to 4.2v. And the real question of this video, that he didn't answer is: Is that any different to the standard lipo setting?
@@Vousie I don't think so, it's not like it puts in "LION" power that is incompatable with LIPO power 🙃️
Hey Bruce have you seen the lipo powered mini spot welders for making li-ion packs that have been showing up on Bangood and elsewhere lately? They typically cost $30-$50 and from what I have seen on various CZcams reviews they actually work well.
@ RCModelReviews I have a Li ion 500mAh 7.4 battery and I have the ISDT 608AC charger, what settings should I use to charge my buttery at? On my screen it has…
Task- Charging,
Chemistry- Lilon,
Condition- 4.10V,
Cells- 2S,
Current-0.5A
So charging (not discharging!) LiPo's on the Lion setting is a good idea for cell / pack longevity?
Absolutely! It just depends on your use again. I mostly charge my FPV batteries to 4.2v just because the super short flight times but a lot of my RC car batteries I usually only charge to 4.1v since RC cars last so long on a charge.
@@JimBoomer Excellent, thanks! I was a bit concerned because LiPo's have a specific charge cycle but if it's the same just with different terminal voltages then I'll give it a go.
Yes, all Lithium batteries use the simple CC-CV charging method, so it is basically just a power supply with current and voltage limits (and BMS/balancer for multi cell). Most chargers allow to set the current and realize the voltage limit in these LiXX profiles, but on some you can also configure custom voltage limits, that is the only differences between profiles. PB is similar, only NiMH charging is completely different (delta peak detection).
A downside with lower voltage limits is that it takes more time, even though it puts less energy in. Depending on the internal cell resistance it will spend much more time in the CV phase and low current. That is why like to use 4.2V instead, but stop charging early, then the cell voltage drops down to about 4.1V after a few seconds. Still charge it fully from time to time and let the balancer do it's job to make the cells equal.
This trick is often used in modern consumer electronics, the battery controller monitors the pack capacity and stops the charging already when the expected capacity is reached, to skip the lengthy CV phase for the last few percent and improve longevity at least a bit with lower idle voltages. They go up to 4.4V while charging though, which wipes out all longevity improvements there...
I have been charging at 1c for approximately one year. They do get warm. I didn’t realise that might be too much.
Thanks so much , allway great info!!! Also I don't have a lion charge so good I can use my old lipo charge but just 1/2 C,,, got it...Merry Christmas,,,or Happy Solstice,,, or anual gift day...lol thanks Man, come fly with me in Sacramento and I got free tacos for you!
what would you recommend for those battery for setting SONY VTC6 18650 high quality cells from flywoo exlorer and also for storage what would you recommend ? Thanks
cheers Bruce :)
When you measure internal resistance what values should cause concern?
Values are typically much higher than lipo even when new.
If my Li-Ion cells start to get above 22mOhm then I consider them to be getting tired. Of course when measured on *my* charger -- different brand chargers can produce wildly different figures for internal resistance because it's a figure that depends very much on the state of charge and the current being used to measure that IR.
@@RCModelReviews Hello! This is a great video! Regarding to the internal resistance, I found the value is different when in charging and not in charging. So which one should we take care of? And at which value, for LiPo and Lion, should we need to consider replacing them? Thank you!
@7:55 It's not that lithium-ion lasts longer than lithium-polymer but the form they are packaged. What you are comparing is pouch cells vs cylinder cells. Even with the exact same chemistry cylindrical cells will generally last much longer. The reason is that most pouch-type cells suffer from delamination long before degrading chemically as there is nothing substantial to keep the layers in good contact with each other. Any gas that is generated collects in pockets between the layers pushing them apart thus reducing the active surface, reducing capacity and increasing internal resistance. With cylindrical cells this cannot happen except in extreme overheating situations. The metal cylindrical shell is strong enough to prevent the layers from being pushed apart causing the excess gas to find its way out of the cell rather than pushing the layers apart. The disadvantage of cylindrical cells is of course that they are considerably heavier for a given capacity and will usually have a lower C rating due both to their much smaller outer surface area as well as higher internal resistance due to having one long continuous set of plates rather than many layers paralleled. (The latter issue has been solved recently by Tesla but AFAIK no one else is using that solution)
Good stuff.
Safe is relative. Different charge rates should not make much difference from a safety point of view. Just don't leave it floating.
Hi Bruce I just bought the 3100mAh jeti packs they are two cell but there is no balance lead how the hell do I balance them ,, hope your all well, my sister is in New Zealand now she's a theatre sister on North Island hospital thanks for the video, Steve
Have you ever done a video on knee voltage, or why a battery's voltage per cell drops instantly when you stop charging it? Eg. Charge to 4.20V per cell, then you stop the charge and they immediately drop down to 4.17V each.