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Plague and the Bronze Age Collapse | Dr. Eric Cline
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2021
- In this episode that the superb scholar and expert Dr. Eric Cline discusses his book 1177 BC and Plague within the Bronze Age Collapse.
In this episode we discuss how plague should have played a role in the collapse of the Bronze Age Mediterranean but that we are currently struggling to find physical evidence.
For clarification we do discuss plague within the LBAC and so we don't discuss the ancient texts that do discuss plague outside of that narrow time scope, although we do briefly discuss Homer discussing plague during the Trojan War and though the Trojan War takes place within this period, the story itself was written long after the collapse.
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It seems in light of famine and invasions; some type of disease was also a part of the Bronze Age collapse. Whether or not we ever truly know is a question for the future - or perhaps we'll never know for certain. But, it does seem likely.
You might as well call him “Dr. Click” because when I see Dr. Cline, I click.
Posted a Dr. Cline video and hit 18 likes in a mere few seconds! He deserves all of them for sure and I love your support of this awesome legend!
I read his book 1177 BC, very good read and I love the humor in it. Fascinating stuff
His drive by shooting joke involving the Hittites in that book made me laugh out loud, hahaha.
Darn good book. So much drama! It should be a movie
Love the interview just wished it was longer
When I saw Dr. Cline’s book images flash on screen, I had to stop the video and go order one. Now, after the treat of this video, I have another treat ready to go! Dr. Cline is so amazing; I first saw him on his the Great Courses archaeology lecture series, and wanted to learn everything he knows.
It was really nice to see another side of Dr. Kline. Not the college lecturer, but a relaxed guest showing his sense of humor, even mentioning Monty Python! And it is always good to hear his informed opinions!
The revised book is available tomorow. Good quality reading coming:)
Hope you enjoy it! I know that I will be excited for it!
I think "1177 B.C. ... Revised and Updated" drops today. I've been holding out on reading his book until now, I'm looking forward to getting it. I appreciate the light Dr. Cline sheds on this era of history.
Hope you like it!
@@digkabri Thank You!
I know I have it heard it stated that captives brought some disease back to Hattusas in that general time. I want to say, plague is a general term also.
Yes, ca. 1350 BC, during the time of Suppiluliuma I.
Yes, it was smallpox.
What about the Plague of the Philistines supposedly happened around 1200BC mentioned in the Book of Samuel in the Bible.
Some great insights and a healthy reminder on the limitations of what materials are available to us. Tangential to this but I am curious as to the impact the LBAC had on the Urnfield and Nordic Bronze Age knowing well enough that the Amber Road connected these groups to the Mycenaeans and other Eastern Mediterranean societies.
What about the plague that hit Hattusa after the battle of Kadesh a few centuries earlier? We have written record of that but none of this age. Disease is part and parcel of siege warfare. The Iliad could be simply mentioning that state of affairs.
I put a disclaimer and explanation for leaving that out in the video description above.
Multiple types of uncontrolled pandemics, as well.
Diptheria, cholera, typhus, TB, smallpox, scarlet fever, you name it.
Most, with kill ratios that are breathtaking.
e.g. Untreated typhus kills 10% - 60% of those who catch it. TB = 66%. Diptheria = 50%. Smallpox is 30% - 90%, depending on type.
I’m thinking of inviting Cline onto my channel for an interview. I heard he’s writing a new book.
Recently there was a question on Quora about the collapse and I laid out the knowledge I received from dr. Cline's work and the first comment was about plague being a factor as I too didn't mention it in my answer.
Also I had a thought about the 7 good years 7 bad years prophecy in the Bible being an allegory for the pre-collapse prosperity of Egypt and then the drought and famine that hit in collapse times.
Plague, leprosy, polio, and small pox were some of the most wide spread contagions, infections, sicknesses, illnesses, diseases, germs, viruses, contaminators, or transmitters
Súper enjoyable
ARGH! I LOVE YOUR BOOK!!!! 💕💕💕
Wish he had more books!!!!!
Could it have been written mythologically as a story depicting the plague as an archetype of a supernatural being warring against humanity ?
CZcams just gave me the opportunity to give this video 5 stars and some other positive feedback.
If a plague happened quickly, as they do, is it possible bodies were simply cremated and disposed of in non-traditional sites...leaving little evidence (or evidence where we'd expect to find it)?
Thanks so much to both of you, but you both need to raise your cameras 6” or so, a bonus is that everyone looks better that way. Nick, there are problems with your audio.
Wasn't there some volcanic winter thing? I know that could trigger a plague outbreak. It did in 536 AD.
Volcanic winter leads to famine, which leads to pestilence.
please do a video on Vikings in the Middle East
It’s certainly seems that the findings of Professor Claude Schaefer on this fascinating subject have been completely ignored. ✔️
(The Exodus happened closer to 1500 BCE according to Biblical chronology -480 years b4 Solomon's 4th regnal year- and evidence in the Sinai and Egypt at sites like Serabit El-Khadim and Avaris, which is why the scholar above admits there's no evidence for it in the 1200s BCE)
With the collapse of the rules-based world order and the recent COVID-19 plague, it seems we are experiencing another collapse similar to the Bronze Age or perhaps even the fall of Rome. Don't you think the parallels are striking right now?
While not a plague as such, cholera was very prevalent to even modern times, due to poor sanitation, especially during warfare and sieges. Cholera may have been so commonplace back then that it wasn't mentioned in the texts.
Omfggggggg Eric !!!!!!!!! Cline !!!!!!!! Betcha can't get kenneth w harl on!!!!!!
I have long had an interest in plagues. What were they? Where did they come from? Etc.
A first question about the time of the Bronze Age Collapse might be, what were the normal disease outbreaks in those areas? Were there more or less of those diseases, if any? Would outbreaks have been worth recording? There have been other influenza pandemics since 1918, with notable morbidity and mortality, but beyond modern record keeping, those things came and went without much collective memory.
I just watched my daily dose of COVID news. What about another pandemic? Yes, there will be. From what? Probably from animals, a zoonotic virus. Probabilities increased by factory style meat production and unsanitary meat markets in some areas of the world. Broken down, we can point fingers at the US agri-business as well as 'wet markets' such as are or were found in China.
It is suggested that people may not have had horrible plagues before they domesticated animals. It is also suggested that smallpox for instance came from rodents in Central Asia. We know Black Death, Yersinia pestis, originates in fleas on rodents. It has also been suggested the Justinian and Antonine plagues might have been picked up by soldiers sleeping rough in fields where infected rodents dwelt. Interestingly, we do still have Yersinia pestis in the US and people occasionally become infected through interaction with rodents. Antibiotics now control this bacteria.
It is said Yersinia pestis, found in rodents, especially rats, spreads primarily through fleas on the animals. Additionally, plagues occur in drought years when, supposedly, the fleas are somewhat dehydrated and the rat blood they have sucked coagulates in their guts. Thus when they bite they vomit or inject live bacteria into the victim. (I said 'supposedly' because I am still trying to figure out how a blood sucking flea can become dehydrated.)
So, if conditions were not conducive to terrible plagues during the specific years of the Bronze Age Collapse, maybe dramatic plagues did not happen. If populations were not dense enough or if invaders had not encountered specific infective agents, maybe there were no notable plagues. Or maybe the regular rate of infectious illness, even if it increased, was not found notable. If we experienced the calamities of the collapse today and concurrently had an extra bad flu season, regular people would probably say there was really bad flu in those years. Look at people today insisting COVID is, "no worse than the flu". If SARSCoV-2 came around in more primitive times, it would likely be remembered as really bad flu.
Compare stealthier viruses, which we accept, to more dramatic illnesses like Black Death, smallpox or even measles. Epidemics of the latter three will leave strong memories and likely some written material.
👍
Dr. Kline: 1177 was the year civilization collapsed
Me: I’m checking my notes and it says here that 2021 is the revised date.
Dr.Kline: indeed, you are correct my handsome friend. I seem to have bungled my arithmetic.
Me: can you eat toilet paper?
1176
decline of population and mobility and connectivity could easily explain the lack of plagues. No people to get infected, no travelers to infect.
This is also how the black death ended in the middle ages
Why does the plague suddenly look like Covid?
Africans were the first to Study the Antiquities and the Middle Ages!!
✊🏿🌍💥
Why does everything have to be about race? We’re all humans, we share a collective history and collective knowledge. It doesn’t matter who did what first. Not everything is a dick measuring contest between various groups. Sometimes it’s ok to just appreciate what people have done and forget the race crap.
@@scottnunnemaker5209 Africa I Says!!!👎✊🏿🌍💥
@@tonyjemz777 Africa you says what?
Interesting, perhaps bio weapon
Lost a lot of viewers on this channel. Why is that?
All I can say is that regardless of what people think, all history is political (from the beginning to now) all history is biased and I’m happy to counter many of the fictitious and outdated narratives being pushed by other HC on YT. That being said this channel is now approaching 100K subs. It can’t be losing that many.
@Gobble My Nads revolution began in Sumer. The original Proletariat. Hahaha.
@Gobble My Nads Disucssing the political situation of the period in question is fine. Imposing your modern personal politics upon the material is a huge no-no. ;)
"No evidence" was said 5 times in less than 3 minutes. Typical scholarly nonsense. Should people having the foresight to relocate before they were dying have brought something for the dr's book? Weak!