Games Workshop Changed Their Paint Recipe. Big Mistake? | Models and Memories Weekly #67
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2022
- In this episode of Model and Memories Jay talks about the New Age of Sigmar Box set, the new Citadel Paints and their different paint recipe, and what he worked on this week. We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday! We're streaming Monday-Saturday starting at 9PM CST!! JOIN USSSS! Thanks for watching!
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#warhammer40k #miniatures #gamesworkshop - Jak na to + styl
67! We're getting close!
Very close to 70!
@@frizzank indeed
If he doesn't say "How" slightly seductively, we riot.
Yeah close to 420!
There better be a “Nice!” in the title 2 weeks from now.
I don't think the prices are going up, but the Shades now come in 18ML pots like Contrast instead of 24ML... for the same price.
it felt like they were taking every opportunity to take more money while giving nothing back, now they're just creating said opportunities
So the price gone up in other words..
U hit the point, same price, less medium, lower working quality...
Thanks gw.
Just wanna say I really like your channel. It's honest, positive and friendly content, and a lot of it. Thanks!
Discs of Tzeentch are kind of like Duskmantles from D&D I guess. They cling to the ceiling and grab onto your head as you pass underneath.
There's also a spell called floating disc and your wizard can cast it and jump on.
I was thinking Flumph’s! Their kinda disc shaped.
WHO HATH SUMMONED ME TO THIS REALM?!
I just don't really like the effect of the new nuln oil, I want it to give a bit of a harsher dirty effect, the new one seems too diluted? That together with the new stealth downgrade in potsizes makes me think they're just watering down the washes even further to skimp on production costs, essentially a stealth price increase ontop of a stealth price increase ontop of the official price increase.
I agree. Older Nuln Oil is better.
I am ready to try oil washes and see if they perform as advertised.
@@bopaintsminis you mean by making them yourself?
@@Nocturnes1984 Yeah, for example make grime by mixing one part black oil paint with one part brown and thinning to an ink consistency. It seems like it's all over YT, and I have about seven vehicles ready to paint.
That's the impression I got too. Watered down, so we need to use more paint for the desired effect, and thus spend more money on more paint.
Those deadzone shield rules are really cool
Holy crap! A models and memories video on Friday?!? On my birthday too none the less!?!?!? Great vid guys and I’m excited to try the paints because you can’t knock something till you try it
happy birthday!
happy birthday
I am loving the colour pallet on these models, pastel yet vibrant.
Love a new painting challenge and this could be the next one.
I find myself motivated by a combination of all three of the aspects of army building you mentioned, fluff, rules and what I think is cool, to various degrees, even within a single army project.
Glad you showed off that chart! I've been using Druchii Violet to make my Acolyte Hybrids purple and I really like how much softer the new one looks, I'm really excited for the new one.
22:00 As a collector and player of only AdMech, I plan on having all of the entries the codex has to offer, thus I'll be able to test every single build possible :) With all the FWs available + the custom ones you can do, I have no doubt I'll have enough to keep myself busy before needing to move to another army^^ Plus, I created my FW to be still accurate lore-wise, and there's a strong theme behind it :D
Love hearing this while working
So good I watched it twice!! Love your videos!!! The force is strong with this one!!!
yoooo jay that low register on the "how" was impressive.
Jay as the Lorax... Artistic perfection!
Yay new models, new paint, gas prices are ridiculous.. what a time to be alive!
Great channel! Just grabbed two pots of agrax earthshade and nuln oil. I'll grab a couple more on my next pay. I don't feel like learning to deal with a new type of wash.
Aside from nuln and Agrax, army painters washes are much better they don’t drastically change / potentially ruin your hard work on the paint job. GW washes also dry out quite differently to the expected effect. They needed to fix them
I like the whisper in the ear thing with the old tzeentch model
I too like to mix my own colours of paints, buying a few key paints saves some money as you can make your shade and highlight as you need it rather than buying two additional paints for every new colour you get.
These shades look great but the issue is that if you rely upon the staining your going to have to change your paint recipe by either using contrast or starting with a darker base coat
For example, I paint deathwing by spraying wraithbone then all over wash in serphim sepia, then highlight up with screaming skull layer and white scar edges. Now a wraithbone basecoat from the spray will be too bright and I’ll actually have to basecoat in a darker colour or switch to using contrast paint. I’m sure I can make it work though
And honestly not all models in an army have to match perfectly or even be the same scheme.
I really really like Casandora Yellow for blonde hair. I do a base of ionrach flesh, then casandora yellow, and then a drybrush of a desaturated yellow, and it looks good for a really easy "cheat method" for blonde hair.
When building armies I think about:
1. Cool factor
2. How I want that unit to behave. For example, I picked up some blightlord terminators. I want them to be a meat wall of regenerating flesh that also dishes out hella pain. I like to have 1-3 main units and then flesh out the army for that strategy.
There is a spell called Tenser's Floating disk, maybe that's what you were thinking of?
People with lives don't have the time. They just want their army to match
I think that having a unified color scheme for an army with a specific formula is neat. My Necrons all look exactly the same, and I like it! If I want to paint something different, I paint a different army! You could argue that I am not broadening my skill quickly but after painting all those Necrons, I have refined specific skills. True metallics with pin-line recesses and glowy green blades? I got you! It also serves as good motivation to power through an army to get on to the next project so I can paint something different.
If you're good at green glowy, all you've gotta do is translate those skills to another color, and pretty much the same with metallics to flat colors. Keep on keeping on!
you live studio audiance needs to hoot, cheer, boo, and clap more. lol. thank you for the great vids and good tips.
Wargames Atlantic has Grognards which are basically sci-fi French troopers. They seem really good as Imperial Guard proxies.
Alot of the death fields range would make great guard
Travel across the land, searching far and wide. Each pot of paint a brand new test, new power that's inside...
Some people don't want to have their paints change because they have no interest in ever growing or changing or doing anything different. Some people are die-hard, this is my army and it will be massive and they will all match and I will never make or play or touch anything else, people.
Tensers floating disk is a spell in D&D. It creates a floating disk and I believe it is mentally commanded (at least in some edition). So theoretically you could get on the disk and float around while casting spells. The umbrella monster you mentioned is probably a cloaker.
You can definitely not do this in dnd 5e. This was probably Advanced D&D. (2ND ED.)
Two more weeks until the best episode of Models and Memories Weekly
69 duude!
Silver Bayonet, Napoleonic Wars with monsters, also a skirmish game I believe
In terms of Listbuilding: If I find a model I really like (like Trolls, Monstrosities and other Grotesqueries) I tend to build around them and get as many of the big gribblies I can find. Sometimes, I also go for some fluffy underdog for the drama. I am not sure how the current Eldar Prince Yriel is, but the 8th edition Yriel was a legendary HQ with a negative trait! Imagine that! A charakter with pros and cons on the battlefield, a bold move of GW.
You said umbrella thing and I immediately thought of the Gibbering Mouthers, and those bastards definitely have a bit of tzeench vibes as an Aberration creature type. That's D&D speak for "made of Warpstuffs"
The dnd monster you’re thinking of might be a Flumph, it’s kinda a similar disk-y thing that guides adventures through treacherous dungeons. Unfortunately I don’t think you can ride on em tho.
That or the spell tenser's floating disk.
I saw you mention war gods of Olympus/aegyptus. You should check it out for sure. Been playing it a good bit and really enjoy it!
Get some Silver Bayonet in your life! Fighting zombies and vampires with muskets to stop the world ending... also Napoleon is there...
I am super hyped for Silver Bayonet but currently focusing on Rangers of Shadow Deep. Will probably venture into Silver Bayonet in the future.
The disk demons always reminded me of Tensers Floating Disk, which is a DnD Spell indeed. It is basically a summoned disk that acts as a pack animal, not really for riding though
That's probably what it is a reference to. I always assumed it was GW's non-copyright way of having wizards use Tenser's Floating Disc in combat since a lot of other spells are inspired by D&D spells.
My understanding is that you have it backwards with the Tzaangors and Acolytes. Tzaangors are the buff dudes you have in a shield line and Acolytes are some of the best shooting in the game with their spells, so you want them to be shielded. Plus, if you have the right strategem, Acolytes can turn into Tzaangors as they're killed, so it's good to have models for both.
Jay look into Saga by studio tomahawk! It’s such a great historical adjacent skirmish wargame that’s miniature agnostic! I loved painting my war games foundry Vikings
D&D also has Tenser's Floating Disk, a spell that creates a floating disk to fly around on.
Well, to be fair, it only floats about 3 feet in the air and can't float down more than 10 feet.
If your Floating Disk looks like that you are probably not a human wizard
I'm totally with you on the AoS range. I think it's super cool but they're always just a little bit shy of something that makes me REALLY want to get them. For all the flak AoS got I'm actually really happy that it's becoming a bit of a testing ground for GW's newer ideas. I'm almost wondering if I should grab the occasional AoS kit just to support the line and let them keep coming up with new/weird/interesting ideas.
For me, I just only have so much time and money. I can’t get sucked into two big war games, and I’m already in 40k so there it is. I can’t get involved even if I’d want to.
And I have been tempted by a few like the Deepkin or skaven
I can only afford one army but I build my admech purely on the rule of cool and maybe a bit of lore. Me and my brother are super relaxed with the rules so we just play and build our models however we think will be most fun/look the coolest
I'm kinda hyped to use these new paints tbh
I’m excited for the yellow contrasts, every demo I’ve seen of it is crazy good.
I am absolutely in for a pot of ironjawz yellow and some of the other colors in the range too. Got plans for how to use some of them already and others are just future proofing
So, you can say that enjoying different games butters different toasts and jimmies different jammies?
I've basically just started out with Warhammer so I got the ork killa dakka warband and I kind of based my army around evil sons cuz that's the clan I picked but my head Canon is that the leader that I bought gazskull trakka saw blood angels attack his orks and he saw how fast and efficient they were and he didn't think that was because they were super humans he thought it was because they were painted red so he ordered his entire army to paint themselves red so now they are some of the most fast and efficient orks in any sector
There’s a spell called Tensor’s floating disc that can follow you around and carry stuff for you
That was in 1st Edition
I don’t recall seeing it in 3.5 or 5e
It is in 5e
Probably thinking of Tensor's Floating Disk
I´m liking how the new paints look on videos. The colors are nice, and the shades aren´t as staining or thick which (imo) is finally what it is supposed to do now (almost always diluted it anyway). Also that new yellow looks amazing, but I'm most looking forward to the dirty white shades. People groaning about this should be happy because these new paints look like ALOT less cleaning up work to do. And as always more thin coats is better than one thick coat of the older paint formula.
I agree like you say, people need to learn to adapt and let go of their old paint schemes. People need to be creative and grow in their skill. If not then the consequence is simple and their own choice and their own fault. It was hard for me to change to Vallejo/Scale75 for me in the beginning, but it has thaught me so much valuable stuff about painting, I can only recommend letting go of being strictly loyal to citadel (also citadel paints are arguably the worst out there in quality). I do like their reds though. The washes are great, but I would say making washes of Vallejo paint is much better and gives you much more control of the color you want. If you don't put effort in growing in the hobby, you can't complain for being rigid and stiff.
Agreed. The big mistake is on their part is encouraging this change as the maker of the paint. So many new players get hooked on citadel paints because it's what they started with. By changing the colour line you give a lot of these people, who are now more experienced and knowledgeable, the perfect opportunity to pick a new paint line.
I still have a few of the really old high elves and there codex lol 😆
The giant mech for kill zone reminds me of bt from titan fall
Tbh I wish they’d just take the hero and hq models from the big box sets and sell them separately for those of us that don’t actually play and just want something to paint. I can’t justify spending over $200 for 1 to 5 models I actually want. Only one I bought was Octarius and that’s because I wanted everything from that box, I sold the terrain and the other stuff in it I was never going to use.
My primary focus on army building is rule of cool + some lore. I have two armies and I don’t seriously plan on expanding even though I wish I could.
I picked Black Templars for the lore and themes. I buy models based on cool, and a splash of rules… oh I really wish I had a big bad weapon even if it’s not “synergy” with Templar rules, so here’s a repulsor executioner tank to support my sword boys.
My Thousand Sons I picked based on lore + rules - I really wanted something that played different and I also really wanted something that allowed for thematic match ups in my games with friends (where half the folks use imperium factions but they’re diversifying lately). So I went from No psykers allowed to ALL the psykers. They’re really fun too but it saddens me the model range is so limited
Like, I get it if theyre trying to reduce the saturation, adding more water to make them cheaper and closer to a recess wash makes sense but...
We could (and did) already do that home?
Sounds like quietly doing cost savings
like if that will save them a lot. they just want to adjust their ild paint to the new formula used by contrast paint.
@@ysbrann3059 man, please don’t ever defend GW lmao. They are a billion dollar company and literally do not care about you or your experience, only their bottom line. They are not above cutting their paint with water, and yes, it would save them TONS of money. You are vastly underestimating the volume of paints GW sells.
@@harrisonlorens3585 I neither blindly support them nor do I assume the absolute worst and most conspiratorial of them. I suspect that this is a case of “well we know people are doing this anyway, so let’s match our contrast formula and do the same anyway so the newbies are doing the same as the experts by default”. Cost savings may be a factor, but they are not saying “well how can we screw over the consumer today”
@@timunderbakke8756 I think you vastly underestimate the corporate need GW has to screw their customer out of every last penny. How else are they going to maintain their absolutely absurd >30% profit margin?
Most businesses maintain 2-5% fyi
Are they adding water to the new paint or matte medium/flow improver? Either way the raw materials cost them as near to zero per pot to be a negligible expense. All considered it’s probably a good thing that they act more like a pin wash - the goal is to improve the contrast of your painted minis not to change their colour.
I don't think the prices increased, but the pots are smaller, so technically the "per ounce" increased.
What do you use seraphim sepia on over agrax? I'd be interested to try it
I make my armies based off what’s cool. Like for legion I like clone troopers (which is my wife’s faction) so I have a good amount of clone troopers. For 40k I like space wolves so I’m doing space wolves. I got a invictor warsuit in the combat patrol. I’m not a fan of it so I’m going to use some green stuff(will be my first time using green stuff) to make it into a baby dreadnought. I think I might try to make it look like the pilot is all tied into the machine like a real dreadnought. Great video loved the Pokémon song in the middle!
That lumineth wizard looks just like the idoneth one with a the same pose
I have mainly always built my forces from a lore/rule of cool direction. I love to build, but painting is a bit kf a chore for me, so I prioritize something I think will be fun and keep my hobby interest, rather than what might be effective in game.
I have two 40k armies. The first one is Tau, startet it many years ago when I was more inexperienced and I gradually built a story and a lore for it. I've always loved the idea of a multicultural empire so focused on different units and a lot of auxiliaries. The second, most recent project is alpha legion. I'm strongly convinced that they're still loyalist so I'm building an army with no daemon units in it. Not competitive but very funny
haha, I mostly like historicals. And I've been thinking of verging towards sci-fi with Konflikt 47, because it's the most historical. hehe
i have never played a game of anything.... yet. but the factions i choose are purely based off what i think looks cool. ill figure out the other stuff once i start playing. i REALLY like the tzeentch half of that new aos box. im gonna be watching that one like a hawk. dominion is only like $110 on amazon now, i paid to much for that when it dropped. im gonna snag that new one when its a little older and cheaper this time. i love wizards and mages so the two new characters are right up my alley.
You should collect french imperial guard
You might be thinking about a flump, a disc and a flump are very different but they look similar
2 more episodes!
Some of the less intensity of the colour shades to being lighter is a nice move. However, the main issue with the new shades is 18mL pots, down from 24mL, but the price is the same. 25% less in each bottle. GW innovation!
Buff dudes are the magic one
Tzaangor is just brute
Have you checked out Sludge? its like low fantasy modeling using historicals and kitbashing, you might like it!
There's a floating disc spell that you can ride or hold your stuff
Tenser's floating disk
I really like everything I'm hearing about Deadzone, can you do some more content on it, please?
Given that the new shades are the same price as the old ones for 25% less product, I think it is safe to say that they just increased their prices by 25%...
I didn't know they made Mario Goomba minis :D
I agree, aelf with bare head > aelf with cow head.
Does the Marvel universe flim your flams?
The way you talk about deadzone, playing lots of different armies and teams. Marvel Crisis Protocol shares that aspect for sure, having endless team combos. And you can share models with friends for more options. Marvel isn't my favorite universe but the game really appeals to me.
Disc looks somewhat similar to the Flumph, yes, but I doubt they’re related at all. Flumph are basically good natured magical jellyfish that live in dungeons.
they remind me of flumbhs but honesly they are their own creature and pretty cool
Konflikt47 is interesting, but just a little too much Wolfenstein-ish to me, but I would love to see wargame set in Scythe's 1920+ universe (Iron Harvest but with miniatures). I just adore these post ww1 dieselpunk mechs lumbering through the polish fields of wheat in the early interwar central europe.
Also Rozalski's paintings it's based on, while (at least I think so) digital, display heavy inspiration from batallistic and nature art of Kossak family. I wonder if it could be replicated on miniatures or maybe whole dioramas, as it's large scale realism, but watercolor so very speciffic in look.
Thinking of it would generally love to see more artstyle replicating experiments, we've got classic miniature styles, typical grimdark minis (imho very bad for small scale minis), experiments like e.g. Dice'n'demons artstyle withsuper vibrant color lines, we've got ways to replicate Borderlands and comic styles well (they aren't exactly the same things), but trying to replicate some classic artstyles would be interesting, seeing witch of them even looks good on miniature.
Maybe not a price rise, but the Shade pots are Contrast size, so maybe a lot less for the same price?
they will conqt the same as contrast and they flow w1it beter on the mini with the new formula so you need to apply less paint
@@ysbrann3059 And how do you know this?
@@dr.mantistoboggan4494 because i use constrast and shade every day ? and they told that the new qhade used the same formula as contrast ?
Where did you get those shelves in the background? I need them for my hobby room
we made them ourselves out of 1/4" wood boards
So basically to get the same effect as agrax and nuln it’s now going to take 2-3 times as much for dirty darkened metals and the like.
Their MOST bought paint just to now force you to get even more… typical GW.
Maybe the new black legion contrast paint could work for it when thinned down a lot
@@Tyhmyri40 or black templar
just use the grey conteast... do the job beter than nurl oil in my opinion
@@ysbrann3059 Have you actually used the paint, or are you just shilling for the newest product?
@@dr.mantistoboggan4494 i am talking about the already existing grey contrast
Have you seen the Joy Toy 1/18 Warhammer 40k figures? They are a lot more detailed than the Mcfarlane toys but also cost about twice the price.
Tenser's floating disk
Great video. Have you seen the historical game SAGA? I think it has some crossover appeal in gameplay.
Night lords cool, I add dead heads
do you remember the precursor to agrax earthshade and nuln oil?
I can remember having badab black
I somewhat disagree with your opinion on whether the formula should evolve. Looking specifically at Nuln Oil, a very ubiquitous wash, the problem is they changed the mix and left the name the same. Now you have to wonder which version of Nuln Oil you have - the old version or the new version. Coverage will be different. If that's going to be the norm (evolving mixes with the same name), then the benefit of using their product vs. making my own is tossed out the window (if I create a wash using base products, I can ensure consistency). Had they just changed the name and phased Nuln Oil out I wouldn't be so ticked off... but keeping the name the same really hoses the detail-oriented painters who use their products for convenience. Everyone's MMV, just a small nit-pick as a foil to your "completely doesn't matter" perspective!
Never got people's perfect paint matches. Even runs of the same paint can differ
Horus Heresy is historical…it even has old (7th Ed) rules
Yeah, Deadzone is a great game.
If you ever want historical and crazy- landsknechts.
If you’re looking for an excuse to play specific games, maybe you should start a series on the channel doing battle reports. I feel like your creativity could make a really good match with the battle report format.
Unless I decide I'm gonna play competitive. I decide based on badassery, hilarity, and overall coolness, which is why I like the Black Templars, Orks, and I'm gonna make a Wyrmblade Kill Team just because of my last name. Lol
I just watched jay talk about the thicness of a elf for a fee minutes. Why am i still here?
Maybe if there were a "historical" game based around conspiracies? Roswell, weird reptilian creatures posing as world leaders, some elaborate J.F.K /Marilyn Monroe type thing...All the classics. If that doesn't work, maybe something like the gunpowder plot for some actual historic fun.
the skeleton sticker on your device looks kinda like liquid death
I am still working my way through the LAST "new thing" in paints, so I will be passing on GW's new contrast paints. It will take a lifetime to get through the paints I have.
Want to play historicals?
How about Silver Bayonet?
What's up with them 2 horseys' front legs ?! Looking more like Cinderella trying a shoe than a racing battle steed running towards a warp monster.
Nuln oil is almost as expensive as medical blood on average, the 9th most expensive liquid on earth.