Not raised religious but was raised to respect all religions. I had little interaction with Christians. Read the bible in high school in a religious history class and was very taken aback, but figured Christians must not actually believe it and take it as a social club. As a freshman in college I became friends with a young gay man who was Christian and we got into a discussion of hell and he was so sure he was going there but still feared God. I could not believe someone could be made to hate themselves that much. It was utterly heartbreaking. Since then I have lost respect for religious people that do things like that to kids.
I hope that young gay man has healed and is in a better place now. I know how he felt when you got to know him. Nobody should feel utterly despised by the most powerful person in the universe based on who they are!
It is a Cult Club indeed. That teacher was without conscience, helped along by the unhealthy Patriarchal System of everything..... Utter disrespect to the female from a tender age.
When I was a Christian I didn't believe in hell or that there was anything wrong with being gay. I think different Christians have very different beliefs, although some conservative Christians try to insist that they have the right to define what everyone else has to believe.
@@01Aigul how rude. I remember how my husband was part of a Commission that was formed to interrogate a young man with the same "problem"! I despised the demeanor.. it is devilish to say the least. I thank my Angels that i was delivered from that CULT believing in themselves after all . . not in the "god" they fashioned in their own image and proclaimed as truth.
This conversation reminds me of Christianity. I have been GROOMED into Christianity from I was born. To have a relationship with this Christ, who will be my husband one day. I trusted him, believed in him........ So when I really needed him to show up for me, he was nowhere to be found! I found that the bible....the promises he made and that which was written there, was not truth..... but a lot of myth mixed up with only some facts. Healing came after leaving Christianity, Christ Jesus and all its lies behind. Thanks for your story.
My youth pastor tried to sleep with me. He was very calculating about it. Pulled me out of church on my 18th bday to take me to his office so he could tell me he wanted me. I was shocked. Looking back I can see how I was being groomed for four years leading up. He pursued me all throughout the rest of my senior year of high school. Felt me up at least once. Gave me so many gifts and at one point took me to another state against my will and forced me on a date. I never let him do anything and luckily he made it clear that he would only sleep with me if I gave him permission so he never forced himself on me. I was never afraid of him, except for when he took me to the neighboring state, I was admittedly kind of scared then. Anyway, I only told one or two friends and one of them went to another pastor in the church. I have no idea how his wife stayed with him after she found out about it either. It became a mess. Ugh. Glad I got out of all of that.
I grew up mostly in Oakland CA in my youth and early adulthood. My family was part of the Patten Church there. I experienced so much trauma from that experience that I still suffer from PTSD to this day. I was molested by the audio/video studio person there for three years, beginning at age 11 and threatened with the death of myself and my whole family if I spoke about it. Then when I finally managed to gather up enough courage to speak to the pastor, she told me not to speak about it with anyone because it would cause "homosexual demons" to possess me, all the while keeping the studio person employed. When I was an adult, I entered the Navy and was asked to testify in a case against the molester. The person received a seventeen-year sentence, but the pastor died while being questioned. Just to give people an idea of how much religion destroys a person's higher cognitive functions through its identity replacement ideology, is to describe one way it sabotaged my father's natural compassion, empathy and intellect. My molester had taken me in an elevator that connected the church to their college, he had stopped the elevator between the floors and carved my name in the wall, alongside his other victims. I had mentioned this fact during the deposition, and found out that my father was asked to cover up the evidence by the pastor, which he had done. Fortunately, the FBI was able to uncover his handiwork, he told me that he would do it again. He never said anything to me about what I went through, as he only seemed to care about pleasing the church and its pastor. My father's identity was replaced with the churches toxic belief system, which has resulted in loss of life since its founding. I am have now returned to school using veteran benefits and working on my second book describing these experiences. After many years of continual therapy, I have since began my transition MTF, (three years now), and have embraced my innate bisexual nature. Even though I remain spiritual and practice zen meditation, I have been an atheist for the past 16 years. Any religion or person that teaches an individual, to suppress and or replace their naturally self-created identity with one written in books, penned by primitive toxic men, opens their self-up to a world of suffering.
Wow, what a massively difficult journey you've endured. I appaud your bravery, courage, self-preservation instincts and sense of justice. The world 🌎 needs more people like you who are able to listen to their inner humanity and follow it out of the horrific psychological handcuffs of religion.
I’m so angry on behalf is this woman. To rape a child is vile enough but to gaslight and spiritually burden someone so vulnerable and naive with the “sin” of their rapist is just inconceivably evil.
As a person with ADHD 19:09. I am sorry that her sister did not receive the medicine she needed. I can attest that my medicine helps and it is mean to keep it from people. When I have my medicine it feels like a knot is untied in my mind. I feel a sense of calm. I can do my work. As my doctor explained, the things that typically happen to people with ADHD are far more dangerous than any concerns about medication. P.s. opps, sorry for commenting twice.
Such a powerful story and with such clarity. She's been through heaps and has clearly come a long way in grappling with all of that. It's so striking how in these communities, and then so much more broadly across culture that this is just the norm of how women and especially younger women are treated. Then it breaks my brain imagining going back in time, decades, centuries, how that absence of the language to even communicate these things would have been an almost complete void. Like the story she shared on the Bible where the woman is raped by her brothers and but her publicly bearing her shame because "cultural norms" how much that stings and transcends time. It's profoundly destructive. Like the opposite of morality. It's like not enough that you're raped, but you also have to bear the sin of the sinners too. So just imagine over the eons how many young girls and boys, young men and women, widows, everyone, how prevalent these sorts of abuses must have been and the dynamics would have by and large been accepted as normal. Of course there's examples in the Bible where it's the men from neighboring villages, or ruffians, or family members, but how many stories ARE NOT in the Bible? How much was this, not only profound sin not fully appreciated for the damage that it could cause people and across generations? To a degree we have to appreciate the world we live in today, it might be marginally better in these regards, but imagine how cheap life must have been in the biblical times and for so much of history. Like how rape was and sadly still is just a part of war. How much it's just a part of churches, or how much it's just a part of almost any environment where unsupervised adults are afforded a little too much free time with younger people. And that egregious trust violation and violation of so many things within the power dynamics, like a male authority figure today and in history is going to be out on a pedestal, like reposts and pastors or youth group leaders, or boys out troop masters, and even teachers, police, etc. Their power masks them from culpability because of plausible deniability, and it's how these things can just go on for decades. It was really profound hearing talk about that and elaborating how these purity environments mold you into the perfect naive victims for abuse, and then often by default the victims take on the shame that their perpetrators have put on them. And in a country where roughly 25% of women have been sexually assaulted, and you look at all the myriad problems women face from being ashamed of their bodies and sexuality, socially conditioned to be meal and submissive,especially in these vast number of religious circles, and it's almost treated as normal, all the sexual expectations and double standards, and the harassment and borderline legal harassment, the eating disorders, the perpetual dieting culture. And on and on and on. What a sickness all of this is! And people think feminism is evil because women deserve to be equals in society and treated with respect and have access to work and bank accounts and have their own agency and self determination. This is all very very recent developments in human history! The clear and obvious right thing and right way to go about things, and the bible and Christians were a million miles away and a million years away, light years and galaxies, completely missed everything. She described very well how "if they're wrong about this one big thing, and theyre wrong about a bunch of these little things, what if they're wrong about these other things?" That rabbit hole basically never ends, because the degree to which people are indoctrinated and basically brain washed, it's like a parasitic set of beliefs that takes over minds, and literally nothing makes sense. And these people inform half the political in our country, and I don't even want to talk about the rest of the world. I often express how we are basically still in the stone age as humans, we just happen to have the history, technology, and Civilization that we've somehow managed to get this far, but all purposes, we are directly adjacent to the neanderthals and our more recent ancestors in so many ways. The past clings to us in our bodies and kinda and cultures in thick webs and nets and it's incredible and terrifying that we are not further along somehow. I love Christianity, I love religions, but holy hell, what is wrong with it and what is wrong with them? One of the biggest things to me, especially the religious authority figures, why does the divine word and sin forgiveness and power of the gospel do nothing? Why do they have an equivalent rate of sex abuse as the general public? Something is profoundly wrong with that picture. And I've seen so many say that all this wasn't a problem until modern times, bullshit! Because the bible and the church and the cultures down stream from them have been repressing sexuality for eons now. Though, understandably, when you get further into antiquity, some of these things might have been encouraged as religious rites and cultural norms, and so might have been out in open a lot more. But the point is we have so much further to go, and they dare call us demonic for even trying to be enlightened and compassionate and understanding and for being revolted by these evils and trying to better society and humanity. Oh, Tim said towards the end, about how they can't recognize they've become monsters Tim, theta straight from Nietzsche: "be careful in fighting your monsters that you don't become one." They're oblivious to that insight and wisdom. As they demonize and imagine themselves to be better and more moral, it enables them to commit the same evils. Anyway, I think that was all I wanted to share.
Thank you for taking the time to work through all of your thoughts. 100,% She was deeply betrayed and experienced betrayal blindness. Betrayal Blindness is the term for what happened at the locker. I hope she finds the very best counselors and flies free of this hell on earth. Her family owes reparations to her and sincere apology. The man belongs in prison and a true program of psychological reform.
The important question that no Christian wants to ask is, how efficacious is their program? Absolutely no evidence of success in taming the beast! Too many atrocities among Christians. Where is that light?
The discussion that starts at 1:17:43 about the reason perpetrators are quickly and quietly forgiven...I have a feeling this has a lot less to do with a doctrine of confession and forgiveness, and a LOT more to do with covering up the crime and protecting the hierarchy. Patriarchal communities need to maintain the appearance that it's right to concentrate all the power with men, that it's fine to disempower women, that these dynamics don't lead to abuse, that "there's nothing to see here," etc., etc. When a coverup fails and people find out about it, the defense is about forgiveness and restoration, but there is a lot of gaslighting and victim-blaming, and little evidence of institutional reform.
Christianity is a religion based in gaslighting. It's only 'natural' for them to follow this rule/habit. If it's a habit good enough for God it's definitely good enough for men (and women) .
The idea of institutional reform in that organisation or any of the other church seems to never occur to anyone. This is why abuse is epidemic accross all church denominations.
Not only churches. Other cults and institutions where you cant question the leader, tend to become havens for predators. Schools are another big example. The willingness to deal with the problem effectively, eg, compensation and justice and prevention of further crimes, shows if there was any integrity in the first place.
No candy on Halloween 😭 but hey kids I'm going to heaven Though first im going to sh*t my pants when I'm alone and horrified that my family has been raptured. So many interviews on here clarify that Christianity causes fear, anxiety, and delusions in children. And ignorance, arrogance,and delusions in adults.
Depends on the form of it. This is very much American churchianity, which has sadly spread its tentacles around the rest of the world . But it is just as much unexamined American culture, as scripture.
@@Plethorality The rapture examples are just one of many aspects of the superstitious and ridiculous nature of Christianity that causes fear and ignorance. There are plenty more. Christianity without these traits wouldn't be Christianity.
2:30:00 .... Yah, I also think back at ALL the stupid ridiculous things I / we used to believe..... silly, embarrassing , horrifying, ********** 2:41:00 yep,... I can't believe I was in a cult...
What an amazing interview. Thank you Emilie for sharing this painful experience with us and Tim for asking those intelligent questions! These questions are like milestones for people in their deconstruction and if you ever have time to write a book, it would be just enough to list those questions....
Christian theology. It allows men to create Christian bubbles which believers maintain, again because of Christian theology. What a mess it made of Emilie's life from such a young age. I hope Emilie finds complete healing even though she will never find complete justice. And for her parents too. It would be a shock and painful for them to find that their kids no longer believe. But gee, if they can find acceptance then that too would be wonderful. (But good on her dad - just wants the kids to be safe and happy). Emilie's story about fearing that she had been left behind at the rapture? I hear that story a reasonable number of times. Youngsters believe that the rapture will happen very soon and one day find themselves unexpectedly alone. The rapture is the first thing that goes through their minds ... along with panic. Accents. A few years ago, I lived in Texas for three weeks with my son and his family. I know Texans speak english. However for the whole three weeks I could not understand anyone. My Australian ears with the Texan's own version of english, and I was lost. Fortunately I had at least one member of my family there to translate. 😂😂😂
As a non religious person, I am enraged that an institution claiming the moral high ground gets away so easily with such sexual abuse. More and more, as I watch this CZcams channel, I have such sympathy and heartbreak for people subsumed by religion, specifically evangalism and so-called "charasmatic" churches.
Wow. I not only watched this one with Emile, but I watched the ones with Bekka and Abra. What beautiful, beautiful people, and my heart bleeds for what each has gone through. The openness and honesty were amazing, as much as it hurt to listen to each of their stories. The big take to me is how deep and complex each of us is and how all of us can be hurt and loved on so many levels. This definitely did something to change me. It also resonated because I have gone through spiritual abuse myself, and when I finally came out of it, I couldn’t believe how vulnerable and susceptible I was and how influenced I turned out to be after 40 years in IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) churches, even though I was 24 when I first started with them. I thought I was pretty bulletproof and a non-conformist, but that stuff seeps through the cracks. I found myself saying to myself many times that I didn’t see any power. Where is the Holy Ghost? This stuff is either real or not, and judging by what my eyes see, I see nothing that says it is. The only problem was that I knew I was saved. I could never deny it. It happened, and it happened suddenly and dramatically when I was 17. The big question then was, “Where are the other truly saved people, and why isn’t there any power in these churches? The answer to that is because of mass deception in these very evil and perverse times. People can’t sit down and talk to one another openly and honestly, like these three ladies did with Tim in these interviews. We’re glued to everything and anything other than each other. While we have many creature comforts and lots of technology to make our lives less toilsome, we don’t have time for each other anymore. We’re not forced to be anywhere long enough to get to know even the members of our own families. We can jump in the car and go wherever our hearts want to be. In a word, we don't love each other anymore. A little love goes a long way, as Emile pointed out when she could finally open up to someone who really loved her. All these advancements and this culture could be used for great good rather than evil, but unfortunately, they are not. I can clearly see my failures as a father to my four kids because I was ignorant of what was happening to me, and I lacked the perspective I’ve picked up through my experiences through the years. I was a product of my environment to a degree of which I was not aware, and I passed it on to others, mostly my wife and four children. It was a little over four years ago that I decided to turn off the world, and particularly the voices of people in church, and to seek the Lord in earnest. I didn’t doubt that I was saved. I just wanted to be close to him and understand what was going on. I wasn’t ready for what was about to happen. My prayers were answered, and he gave them far more weight than I did. I decided to baptize myself in his Word like never before. In any spare moment, I was either listening to the Bible or reading it. I felt like a man who doused himself with gasoline, and then set himself on fire with God’s Word. I figured that if I could be so vulnerable, susceptible, and influenced by the world and the church, wouldn’t the same happen if I exposed myself to God in the same way? I started seeing him, and he was more wonderful than words could describe. But he wanted everything! He kept taking away all the little things that I felt were okay and I loved. But with each thing I put on the altar, he would replace it with something a million times better. I got to the point where I was asking, What else can I give? The presence of a person who is so envious of my affections and loves me this deeply is beyond compare. And this was not just anybody; this was the Creator of the universe! I wish I could elaborate more, but this comment already exceeds what most people would read. My heart goes out to you, Tim, and to all those you interview. I can identify with them and with you. What does the Lord require? To do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with him. That’s all! Anything more is what religion tacks on. Jesus, Jehovah, is wonderful and amazing beyond all words. He is who he says he is, and you won’t find him through others. They will only turn you away from him. I can’t do anything about that sorry situation we have to live with today, but to do what pleases him, and that is to love him (do justly), to love others (love mercy), and to repeat that over and over again and again (walk humbly with him).
I've lived in Australia for sixty years. Never heard 'Seppo' to describe an American. I think it was used in the second world war, and maybe the odd person (and I do mean odd) might now say it, but that's all. Young people (anyone under 40) wouldn't even know what it means.
This all goes back once again to the fact that women are seen lesser than men, when these things come out the attitude Is this is an important MAN who is very valuable to the church community (valuable in air quotes)--and the victim is usually just a troubled seductive young girl who caused the situation. Attitude is it really isn't worth the trouble it could cause the important MAN in the church.
But when you're in a religion, you're just so glad to be getting a "get-out-of-jail-free" card, that you don't really care or question how many rapists and murderers also get one. You do kinda feel bad for your neighbor Bob, who has been a great guy all his life, but because he wasn't convinced of Jesus was going to burn for eternity.
Just on Logos, it reminds me a lot of the Muslim conversos (or Reverts as they call themselves) ... its not Logic going on: you can't have absurdism in a dogma and use it as a basis for logic, the form it takes is anti logic like a subtle regression of logical thought until full.blown dissonance is produced. That's the form this took in the monastic education of the Christian's in the past anyway when they started pretending that the heathen barbarism of the ethno-supramacist Jews was personified in the "logos" redefined as the extreme pathos of Paul.
1:12:05 Initially I was kind of confused by this at first too, but as she shared more details I got the sense that he was 100% calculating, and (in Tim's words) "two-faced." I think his words seem counter intuitive because they would definitely backfire if she immediately reported what he was doing (to adults who actually cared & followed through on punishing him). However, if she didn't immediately go public, report him, etc. then the narrative would have paid off immensely, by making her feel culpable & ashamed. Even though he initiated every single event that he then lectured her about how sinful it was...if she didn't stop him & run away, he could make her feel like she didn't do enough to stop the sinful actions, and therefore she was guilty. I don't think he would have started saying such things to her, lecturing her, unless he felt very confident that he could stop her from reporting him right away. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that he only started feeding her this narrative after he spent over a year grooming her...and that he didn't start full on sexually assaulting her until he had spent so much time already touching her, pushing her boundaries, and basically testing her...to see what he could get away with, establishing a relationship and a history of inappropriate behavior. Something that had the added benefit of now, if she did go report the assault, she would be forced to admit that she had "stayed quiet" about their "relationship" for over a year. Even though it had moved so gradually, that only in hindsight could it be portrayed as a "relationship" of any kind. However, by then, technically he had more with her than any other student, technically there was a long history of physical contact of some kind, technically there was a history of her spending time alone with him...she had even been texting him, outside of school, for awhile! Each little event was not a big deal in a vacuum, but over time added up into a pattern of behavior...that unfortunately, he could definitely try to pretend she was culpable in. At the end of the day...the narrative about her sin was worth putting forward, even after HE sexually assaulted her and did everything himself, because he could take advantage of her response...anything less than her immediately jumping up, attacking him, screaming, running away, and immediately telling every adult and demanding they go to the police, etc...could be easily incorporated into that narrative and twisted as "you wanted it" and "you had *let* me commit this act, and therefore you had *let* this sin come upon you," and so on. Obviously, freezing is a totally natural reaction...I would have responded in the exact same way she described. I think he was pretty confident that would be her response. If he had penetrated her the first time he had the chance, then he couldn't have been sure that she wouldn't have reacted like that...which is why he spent sooo much time grooming her & doing "practice runs." I'm sure he was paying close attention to how she reacted to various things, where exactly her lines were for "I need to run to the police now," and then slowly moving that line over time. I'll at least say this...if he hadn't done this before, and his decisions weren't as consciously calculated as I think...then he got *incredibly* lucky, because he just so happened to groom her basically as competently as I've ever heard someone doing in real life. It's like he studied how to groom someone in her position. If he wasn't being 100% two-faced & calculated 24/7, through out the whole process...then all I can say is that he must have had a very good intuition and at least he paid attention to his "gut feeling" on what he could get away with each day and exactly what he should do in order to make it possible in the future to do more & more.
When you realise that the guidance of the holy Spirit has so much in common with the directive of a child molester, And a cover-up 'fixer' Why is this ?!?!
@FoursWithin, Hi, I am trying to understand your comment. I am arguing with it, but could you expand on it to show how you came to this conclusion? It is evident that the church plays that role; cover ups etc., but why do you say it is the Holy Spirit? I guess, what I am asking is, have you come accross Bible passages that if followed, lead to this sort of thing? How the Bible encourages this could be a topic in itself. This wickedness is so much woven into the fabric of Christianity and so widely practised that books need to be written about how the Bible lends itself to all of this.
@@Matira269 Hello. My comment is in reaction to the many Christians I've interacted with in these threads who insist that only Christians know right from wrong because only they have the wisdom of the holy Spirit. Hope that helps.
@@FoursWithin Thanks for making some good points. I saw where you were coming from, but felt that a discussion would highlight the innate hypocrisy of the Christian religion, because when you point out their history and the mayhem that their world view caused down through the centuries, and to this present day, the answer is always that those actors were not true Christians. I don't know how they avoid the fact that the template for every inhuman and barbaric ways to run a society is detailed in the Bible, which they claim was dictated by the Holy Spirit. To give a few examples of the atrocious biblical guidance: A prescription for how to deal with peaceful people who are neighbors living outside of the area you are planning to take over and live in: If they accept and offer peace you enslave them, if they resist you genocide them. Deuteronomy 20:10-15 Amplified Bible (AMP) 10 “When you draw near to a city to fight against it, proffer terms of peace to it. 11 And if it responds to you peaceably and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. 12 But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 And when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword, 14 but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves. And you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here. A prescription for the cities where you plan to replace the occupants: Purge by genocide: No peace possible, just genocide everyone including babies! Deuteronomy 20: 16-19 16 But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, 17 but you shall devote them to complete destruction,1 the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded, 18 that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the Lord your God. 19 “When you besiege a city for a long time, making war against it in order to take it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an axe against them. You may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down. Are the trees in the field human, that they should be besieged by you? 20 Only the trees that you know are not trees for food you may destroy and cut down, that you may build siegeworks against the city that makes war with you, until it falls. A prescription for the women whose lifestyle were unholy: Burning alive at the stake: Leviticus 21:9 (NRSV): 9 When the daughter of a priest profanes herself through prostitution, she profanes her father; she shall be burned to death. .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. Christendom followed this book to a T, and carried out burning at the stake, expanding it to include other male Christians who had a different biblical interpretation to them, carried out slavery and colonialism, persecution of heretics, inquisitions, witch hunts, slave trade etc., child abuse and kidnap of indigenous people, land theft. Guided by a hope for a bloody climax to history, they still war monger and support violence in the name of God to this day. They are "inspired".
From your videos I have learned about the power of indoctrination. However, I am confused why uneasy Christians first look for flaws in the Bible, before seeing that the existence of God is a farce. Why not first ask if God exists at all? Where is the proof of God's existence? If you come to the conclusion that God does not exist, then questioning the authenticity of the Bible becomes irrelevant.
Not raised religious but was raised to respect all religions. I had little interaction with Christians. Read the bible in high school in a religious history class and was very taken aback, but figured Christians must not actually believe it and take it as a social club. As a freshman in college I became friends with a young gay man who was Christian and we got into a discussion of hell and he was so sure he was going there but still feared God. I could not believe someone could be made to hate themselves that much. It was utterly heartbreaking. Since then I have lost respect for religious people that do things like that to kids.
I hope that young gay man has healed and is in a better place now. I know how he felt when you got to know him. Nobody should feel utterly despised by the most powerful person in the universe based on who they are!
I too had a friend similar to you. He un alived himself. He was mauled by their hate and the pain overtook him.
It is a Cult Club indeed. That teacher was without conscience, helped along by the unhealthy Patriarchal System of everything..... Utter disrespect to the female from a tender age.
When I was a Christian I didn't believe in hell or that there was anything wrong with being gay. I think different Christians have very different beliefs, although some conservative Christians try to insist that they have the right to define what everyone else has to believe.
@@01Aigul how rude. I remember how my husband was part of a Commission that was formed to interrogate a young man with the same "problem"! I despised the demeanor.. it is devilish to say the least. I thank my Angels that i was delivered from that CULT believing in themselves after all . . not in the "god" they fashioned in their own image and proclaimed as truth.
This conversation reminds me of Christianity. I have been GROOMED into Christianity from I was born. To have a relationship with this Christ, who will be my husband one day. I trusted him, believed in him........
So when I really needed him to show up for me, he was nowhere to be found!
I found that the bible....the promises he made and that which was written there, was not truth..... but a lot of myth mixed up with only some facts.
Healing came after leaving Christianity, Christ Jesus and all its lies behind.
Thanks for your story.
I'm so glad you broke free.
Yep groomed for Jesus and his cult ideology.
Though it's not truly his ideology since there is no him, just a storybook character
❤
My youth pastor tried to sleep with me. He was very calculating about it. Pulled me out of church on my 18th bday to take me to his office so he could tell me he wanted me. I was shocked. Looking back I can see how I was being groomed for four years leading up. He pursued me all throughout the rest of my senior year of high school. Felt me up at least once. Gave me so many gifts and at one point took me to another state against my will and forced me on a date. I never let him do anything and luckily he made it clear that he would only sleep with me if I gave him permission so he never forced himself on me. I was never afraid of him, except for when he took me to the neighboring state, I was admittedly kind of scared then. Anyway, I only told one or two friends and one of them went to another pastor in the church. I have no idea how his wife stayed with him after she found out about it either. It became a mess. Ugh. Glad I got out of all of that.
Man that story about the dorm party is full on. It sounds like those other students handled that situation incredibly well.
I grew up mostly in Oakland CA in my youth and early adulthood. My family was part of the Patten Church there. I experienced so much trauma from that experience that I still suffer from PTSD to this day. I was molested by the audio/video studio person there for three years, beginning at age 11 and threatened with the death of myself and my whole family if I spoke about it. Then when I finally managed to gather up enough courage to speak to the pastor, she told me not to speak about it with anyone because it would cause "homosexual demons" to possess me, all the while keeping the studio person employed. When I was an adult, I entered the Navy and was asked to testify in a case against the molester. The person received a seventeen-year sentence, but the pastor died while being questioned. Just to give people an idea of how much religion destroys a person's higher cognitive functions through its identity replacement ideology, is to describe one way it sabotaged my father's natural compassion, empathy and intellect.
My molester had taken me in an elevator that connected the church to their college, he had stopped the elevator between the floors and carved my name in the wall, alongside his other victims. I had mentioned this fact during the deposition, and found out that my father was asked to cover up the evidence by the pastor, which he had done. Fortunately, the FBI was able to uncover his handiwork, he told me that he would do it again. He never said anything to me about what I went through, as he only seemed to care about pleasing the church and its pastor. My father's identity was replaced with the churches toxic belief system, which has resulted in loss of life since its founding. I am have now returned to school using veteran benefits and working on my second book describing these experiences. After many years of continual therapy, I have since began my transition MTF, (three years now), and have embraced my innate bisexual nature. Even though I remain spiritual and practice zen meditation, I have been an atheist for the past 16 years.
Any religion or person that teaches an individual, to suppress and or replace their naturally self-created identity with one written in books, penned by primitive toxic men, opens their self-up to a world of suffering.
Wow, what a massively difficult journey you've endured. I appaud your bravery, courage, self-preservation instincts and sense of justice. The world 🌎 needs more people like you who are able to listen to their inner humanity and follow it out of the horrific psychological handcuffs of religion.
I’m so angry on behalf is this woman. To rape a child is vile enough but to gaslight and spiritually burden someone so vulnerable and naive with the “sin” of their rapist is just inconceivably evil.
Idaho is presently one of the main hotspots for christian nationalism.
I'm a Christian and I believe this Christian nationalism is dangerous and not biblical. It's a cult.
As a person with ADHD 19:09. I am sorry that her sister did not receive the medicine she needed. I can attest that my medicine helps and it is mean to keep it from people. When I have my medicine it feels like a knot is untied in my mind. I feel a sense of calm. I can do my work. As my doctor explained, the things that typically happen to people with ADHD are far more dangerous than any concerns about medication.
P.s. opps, sorry for commenting twice.
You are not wrong to comment twice : )
Such a powerful story and with such clarity. She's been through heaps and has clearly come a long way in grappling with all of that.
It's so striking how in these communities, and then so much more broadly across culture that this is just the norm of how women and especially younger women are treated. Then it breaks my brain imagining going back in time, decades, centuries, how that absence of the language to even communicate these things would have been an almost complete void. Like the story she shared on the Bible where the woman is raped by her brothers and but her publicly bearing her shame because "cultural norms" how much that stings and transcends time. It's profoundly destructive. Like the opposite of morality. It's like not enough that you're raped, but you also have to bear the sin of the sinners too. So just imagine over the eons how many young girls and boys, young men and women, widows, everyone, how prevalent these sorts of abuses must have been and the dynamics would have by and large been accepted as normal. Of course there's examples in the Bible where it's the men from neighboring villages, or ruffians, or family members, but how many stories ARE NOT in the Bible? How much was this, not only profound sin not fully appreciated for the damage that it could cause people and across generations? To a degree we have to appreciate the world we live in today, it might be marginally better in these regards, but imagine how cheap life must have been in the biblical times and for so much of history. Like how rape was and sadly still is just a part of war. How much it's just a part of churches, or how much it's just a part of almost any environment where unsupervised adults are afforded a little too much free time with younger people. And that egregious trust violation and violation of so many things within the power dynamics, like a male authority figure today and in history is going to be out on a pedestal, like reposts and pastors or youth group leaders, or boys out troop masters, and even teachers, police, etc. Their power masks them from culpability because of plausible deniability, and it's how these things can just go on for decades. It was really profound hearing talk about that and elaborating how these purity environments mold you into the perfect naive victims for abuse, and then often by default the victims take on the shame that their perpetrators have put on them. And in a country where roughly 25% of women have been sexually assaulted, and you look at all the myriad problems women face from being ashamed of their bodies and sexuality, socially conditioned to be meal and submissive,especially in these vast number of religious circles, and it's almost treated as normal, all the sexual expectations and double standards, and the harassment and borderline legal harassment, the eating disorders, the perpetual dieting culture. And on and on and on. What a sickness all of this is! And people think feminism is evil because women deserve to be equals in society and treated with respect and have access to work and bank accounts and have their own agency and self determination. This is all very very recent developments in human history! The clear and obvious right thing and right way to go about things, and the bible and Christians were a million miles away and a million years away, light years and galaxies, completely missed everything. She described very well how "if they're wrong about this one big thing, and theyre wrong about a bunch of these little things, what if they're wrong about these other things?" That rabbit hole basically never ends, because the degree to which people are indoctrinated and basically brain washed, it's like a parasitic set of beliefs that takes over minds, and literally nothing makes sense. And these people inform half the political in our country, and I don't even want to talk about the rest of the world. I often express how we are basically still in the stone age as humans, we just happen to have the history, technology, and Civilization that we've somehow managed to get this far, but all purposes, we are directly adjacent to the neanderthals and our more recent ancestors in so many ways. The past clings to us in our bodies and kinda and cultures in thick webs and nets and it's incredible and terrifying that we are not further along somehow. I love Christianity, I love religions, but holy hell, what is wrong with it and what is wrong with them? One of the biggest things to me, especially the religious authority figures, why does the divine word and sin forgiveness and power of the gospel do nothing? Why do they have an equivalent rate of sex abuse as the general public? Something is profoundly wrong with that picture. And I've seen so many say that all this wasn't a problem until modern times, bullshit! Because the bible and the church and the cultures down stream from them have been repressing sexuality for eons now. Though, understandably, when you get further into antiquity, some of these things might have been encouraged as religious rites and cultural norms, and so might have been out in open a lot more. But the point is we have so much further to go, and they dare call us demonic for even trying to be enlightened and compassionate and understanding and for being revolted by these evils and trying to better society and humanity. Oh, Tim said towards the end, about how they can't recognize they've become monsters Tim, theta straight from Nietzsche: "be careful in fighting your monsters that you don't become one." They're oblivious to that insight and wisdom. As they demonize and imagine themselves to be better and more moral, it enables them to commit the same evils. Anyway, I think that was all I wanted to share.
Thank you for taking the time to work through all of your thoughts. 100,%
She was deeply betrayed and experienced betrayal blindness. Betrayal Blindness is the term for what happened at the locker. I hope she finds the very best counselors and flies free of this hell on earth. Her family owes reparations to her and sincere apology. The man belongs in prison and a true program of psychological reform.
The important question that no Christian wants to ask is, how efficacious is their program? Absolutely no evidence of success in taming the beast! Too many atrocities among Christians. Where is that light?
The discussion that starts at 1:17:43 about the reason perpetrators are quickly and quietly forgiven...I have a feeling this has a lot less to do with a doctrine of confession and forgiveness, and a LOT more to do with covering up the crime and protecting the hierarchy. Patriarchal communities need to maintain the appearance that it's right to concentrate all the power with men, that it's fine to disempower women, that these dynamics don't lead to abuse, that "there's nothing to see here," etc., etc. When a coverup fails and people find out about it, the defense is about forgiveness and restoration, but there is a lot of gaslighting and victim-blaming, and little evidence of institutional reform.
Christianity is a religion based in gaslighting. It's only 'natural' for them to follow this rule/habit.
If it's a habit good enough for God it's definitely good enough for men (and women) .
The idea of institutional reform in that organisation or any of the other church seems to never occur to anyone. This is why abuse is epidemic accross all church denominations.
Not only churches. Other cults and institutions where you cant question the leader, tend to become havens for predators. Schools are another big example.
The willingness to deal with the problem effectively, eg, compensation and justice and prevention of further crimes, shows if there was any integrity in the first place.
This is a really good point I've never considered but you're absolutely right. Well said.
No candy on Halloween 😭
but hey kids I'm going to heaven
Though first im going to sh*t my pants when I'm alone and horrified that my family has been raptured.
So many interviews on here clarify that Christianity causes fear, anxiety, and delusions in children.
And ignorance, arrogance,and delusions in adults.
Depends on the form of it. This is very much American churchianity, which has sadly spread its tentacles around the rest of the world . But it is just as much unexamined American culture, as scripture.
@@Plethorality
The rapture examples are just one of many aspects of the superstitious and ridiculous nature of Christianity that causes fear and ignorance.
There are plenty more.
Christianity without these traits wouldn't be Christianity.
Thank you for sharing your story, Emilie!
Shame on that church for trying to cover it up!
That note from Doug Wilson.....so telling about what his priorities are 💰
Powerful story, that sounds like an awful situation amazing you can recount it with such a level head.
Thank you Tim these topics are so important
Sounds about right and people still support these monsters. over some mythical nonsense.
2:30:00 .... Yah, I also think back at ALL the stupid ridiculous things I / we used to believe..... silly, embarrassing , horrifying, ********** 2:41:00 yep,... I can't believe I was in a cult...
There's a lot of it about, sad to say. Delightful and very brave young lady...
What an amazing interview. Thank you Emilie for sharing this painful experience with us and Tim for asking those intelligent questions! These questions are like milestones for people in their deconstruction and if you ever have time to write a book, it would be just enough to list those questions....
Christian theology. It allows men to create Christian bubbles which believers maintain, again because of Christian theology.
What a mess it made of Emilie's life from such a young age. I hope Emilie finds complete healing even though she will never find complete justice. And for her parents too. It would be a shock and painful for them to find that their kids no longer believe. But gee, if they can find acceptance then that too would be wonderful. (But good on her dad - just wants the kids to be safe and happy).
Emilie's story about fearing that she had been left behind at the rapture? I hear that story a reasonable number of times. Youngsters believe that the rapture will happen very soon and one day find themselves unexpectedly alone. The rapture is the first thing that goes through their minds ... along with panic.
Accents. A few years ago, I lived in Texas for three weeks with my son and his family. I know Texans speak english. However for the whole three weeks I could not understand anyone. My Australian ears with the Texan's own version of english, and I was lost. Fortunately I had at least one member of my family there to translate. 😂😂😂
It's probably for the best that Emilie is in Australia... a more sensible country than the US in many ways.
As a non religious person, I am enraged that an institution claiming the moral high ground gets away so easily with such sexual abuse. More and more, as I watch this CZcams channel, I have such sympathy and heartbreak for people subsumed by religion, specifically evangalism and so-called "charasmatic" churches.
Just the title of this segment explains many things , for those not afraid to think . All the shows have important moments .
Wow. I not only watched this one with Emile, but I watched the ones with Bekka and Abra. What beautiful, beautiful people, and my heart bleeds for what each has gone through. The openness and honesty were amazing, as much as it hurt to listen to each of their stories. The big take to me is how deep and complex each of us is and how all of us can be hurt and loved on so many levels. This definitely did something to change me.
It also resonated because I have gone through spiritual abuse myself, and when I finally came out of it, I couldn’t believe how vulnerable and susceptible I was and how influenced I turned out to be after 40 years in IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) churches, even though I was 24 when I first started with them. I thought I was pretty bulletproof and a non-conformist, but that stuff seeps through the cracks.
I found myself saying to myself many times that I didn’t see any power. Where is the Holy Ghost? This stuff is either real or not, and judging by what my eyes see, I see nothing that says it is. The only problem was that I knew I was saved. I could never deny it. It happened, and it happened suddenly and dramatically when I was 17.
The big question then was, “Where are the other truly saved people, and why isn’t there any power in these churches?
The answer to that is because of mass deception in these very evil and perverse times. People can’t sit down and talk to one another openly and honestly, like these three ladies did with Tim in these interviews.
We’re glued to everything and anything other than each other. While we have many creature comforts and lots of technology to make our lives less toilsome, we don’t have time for each other anymore. We’re not forced to be anywhere long enough to get to know even the members of our own families. We can jump in the car and go wherever our hearts want to be. In a word, we don't love each other anymore. A little love goes a long way, as Emile pointed out when she could finally open up to someone who really loved her.
All these advancements and this culture could be used for great good rather than evil, but unfortunately, they are not. I can clearly see my failures as a father to my four kids because I was ignorant of what was happening to me, and I lacked the perspective I’ve picked up through my experiences through the years. I was a product of my environment to a degree of which I was not aware, and I passed it on to others, mostly my wife and four children.
It was a little over four years ago that I decided to turn off the world, and particularly the voices of people in church, and to seek the Lord in earnest. I didn’t doubt that I was saved. I just wanted to be close to him and understand what was going on. I wasn’t ready for what was about to happen. My prayers were answered, and he gave them far more weight than I did.
I decided to baptize myself in his Word like never before. In any spare moment, I was either listening to the Bible or reading it. I felt like a man who doused himself with gasoline, and then set himself on fire with God’s Word. I figured that if I could be so vulnerable, susceptible, and influenced by the world and the church, wouldn’t the same happen if I exposed myself to God in the same way?
I started seeing him, and he was more wonderful than words could describe. But he wanted everything! He kept taking away all the little things that I felt were okay and I loved. But with each thing I put on the altar, he would replace it with something a million times better. I got to the point where I was asking, What else can I give? The presence of a person who is so envious of my affections and loves me this deeply is beyond compare. And this was not just anybody; this was the Creator of the universe!
I wish I could elaborate more, but this comment already exceeds what most people would read. My heart goes out to you, Tim, and to all those you interview. I can identify with them and with you.
What does the Lord require? To do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with him. That’s all! Anything more is what religion tacks on. Jesus, Jehovah, is wonderful and amazing beyond all words. He is who he says he is, and you won’t find him through others. They will only turn you away from him.
I can’t do anything about that sorry situation we have to live with today, but to do what pleases him, and that is to love him (do justly), to love others (love mercy), and to repeat that over and over again and again (walk humbly with him).
Blaming the victims for being sexuallly abused is as old as the Old Testament itself. I'm looking at you, Lot.
I have never heard of Seppo! and I grew up in Sydney! Thats slack!
58 years in Australia, never heard of seppos. Yanks yeah, but not that.
The purity myth of pf parents reminds me of the Michael J Fox scene in "Back to the Future" Where he has to date his Mum.
_Calvin Klein, that's your name, right? It's written all over your underwear._
Yeah, not weird at all ;)
I've lived in Australia for sixty years.
Never heard 'Seppo' to describe an American.
I think it was used in the second world war, and maybe the odd person (and I do mean odd) might now say it, but that's all.
Young people (anyone under 40) wouldn't even know what it means.
This all goes back once again to the fact that women are seen lesser than men, when these things come out the attitude Is this is an important MAN who is very valuable to the church community (valuable in air quotes)--and the victim is usually just a troubled seductive young girl who caused the situation. Attitude is it really isn't worth the trouble it could cause the important MAN in the church.
Sorry to hear you were so victimized by that creep. Get a good attorney get him in jail and sue that church that did the coverup.
It causes cognitive dissonamce, trauma bonding 😮😢
that's why people love christianity , all he has to do is repent and he goes to heaven.
Yeah, a lot of people love love love their happy delusions.
But when you're in a religion, you're just so glad to be getting a "get-out-of-jail-free" card, that you don't really care or question how many rapists and murderers also get one.
You do kinda feel bad for your neighbor Bob, who has been a great guy all his life, but because he wasn't convinced of Jesus was going to burn for eternity.
Just on Logos, it reminds me a lot of the Muslim conversos (or Reverts as they call themselves) ... its not Logic going on: you can't have absurdism in a dogma and use it as a basis for logic, the form it takes is anti logic like a subtle regression of logical thought until full.blown dissonance is produced.
That's the form this took in the monastic education of the Christian's in the past anyway when they started pretending that the heathen barbarism of the ethno-supramacist Jews was personified in the "logos" redefined as the extreme pathos of Paul.
And from dissonance to transference ... the religion of paul; where all mankind is guilty for his own crimes
Perth was like that.
1:12:05 Initially I was kind of confused by this at first too, but as she shared more details I got the sense that he was 100% calculating, and (in Tim's words) "two-faced."
I think his words seem counter intuitive because they would definitely backfire if she immediately reported what he was doing (to adults who actually cared & followed through on punishing him).
However, if she didn't immediately go public, report him, etc. then the narrative would have paid off immensely, by making her feel culpable & ashamed.
Even though he initiated every single event that he then lectured her about how sinful it was...if she didn't stop him & run away, he could make her feel like she didn't do enough to stop the sinful actions, and therefore she was guilty.
I don't think he would have started saying such things to her, lecturing her, unless he felt very confident that he could stop her from reporting him right away.
Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that he only started feeding her this narrative after he spent over a year grooming her...and that he didn't start full on sexually assaulting her until he had spent so much time already touching her, pushing her boundaries, and basically testing her...to see what he could get away with, establishing a relationship and a history of inappropriate behavior.
Something that had the added benefit of now, if she did go report the assault, she would be forced to admit that she had "stayed quiet" about their "relationship" for over a year. Even though it had moved so gradually, that only in hindsight could it be portrayed as a "relationship" of any kind.
However, by then, technically he had more with her than any other student, technically there was a long history of physical contact of some kind, technically there was a history of her spending time alone with him...she had even been texting him, outside of school, for awhile! Each little event was not a big deal in a vacuum, but over time added up into a pattern of behavior...that unfortunately, he could definitely try to pretend she was culpable in.
At the end of the day...the narrative about her sin was worth putting forward, even after HE sexually assaulted her and did everything himself, because he could take advantage of her response...anything less than her immediately jumping up, attacking him, screaming, running away, and immediately telling every adult and demanding they go to the police, etc...could be easily incorporated into that narrative and twisted as "you wanted it" and "you had *let* me commit this act, and therefore you had *let* this sin come upon you," and so on.
Obviously, freezing is a totally natural reaction...I would have responded in the exact same way she described.
I think he was pretty confident that would be her response.
If he had penetrated her the first time he had the chance, then he couldn't have been sure that she wouldn't have reacted like that...which is why he spent sooo much time grooming her & doing "practice runs." I'm sure he was paying close attention to how she reacted to various things, where exactly her lines were for "I need to run to the police now," and then slowly moving that line over time.
I'll at least say this...if he hadn't done this before, and his decisions weren't as consciously calculated as I think...then he got *incredibly* lucky, because he just so happened to groom her basically as competently as I've ever heard someone doing in real life. It's like he studied how to groom someone in her position. If he wasn't being 100% two-faced & calculated 24/7, through out the whole process...then all I can say is that he must have had a very good intuition and at least he paid attention to his "gut feeling" on what he could get away with each day and exactly what he should do in order to make it possible in the future to do more & more.
It definitely sounds like she's acquiring an accent.
When you realise that the guidance of the holy Spirit has so much in common with the directive of a child molester,
And a cover-up 'fixer'
Why is this ?!?!
@FoursWithin, Hi, I am trying to understand your comment. I am arguing with it, but could you expand on it to show how you came to this conclusion? It is evident that the church plays that role; cover ups etc., but why do you say it is the Holy Spirit? I guess, what I am asking is, have you come accross Bible passages that if followed, lead to this sort of thing? How the Bible encourages this could be a topic in itself. This wickedness is so much woven into the fabric of Christianity and so widely practised that books need to be written about how the Bible lends itself to all of this.
@@Matira269
Hello.
My comment is in reaction to the many Christians I've interacted with in these threads who insist that only Christians know right from wrong because only they have the wisdom of the holy Spirit.
Hope that helps.
@@FoursWithin Thanks for making some good points. I saw where you were coming from, but felt that a discussion would highlight the innate hypocrisy of the Christian religion, because when you point out their history and the mayhem that their world view caused down through the centuries, and to this present day, the answer is always that those actors were not true Christians. I don't know how they avoid the fact that the template for every inhuman and barbaric ways to run a society is detailed in the Bible, which they claim was dictated by the Holy Spirit.
To give a few examples of the atrocious biblical guidance: A prescription for how to deal with peaceful people who are neighbors living outside of the area you are planning to take over and live in:
If they accept and offer peace you enslave them, if they resist you genocide them.
Deuteronomy 20:10-15 Amplified Bible (AMP)
10 “When you draw near to a city to fight against it, proffer terms of peace to it. 11 And if it responds to you peaceably and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you. 12 But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 And when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword, 14 but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves. And you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not cities of the nations here.
A prescription for the cities where you plan to replace the occupants: Purge by genocide: No peace possible, just genocide everyone including babies!
Deuteronomy 20: 16-19
16 But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, 17 but you shall devote them to complete destruction,1 the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded, 18 that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the Lord your God.
19 “When you besiege a city for a long time, making war against it in order to take it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an axe against them. You may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down. Are the trees in the field human, that they should be besieged by you? 20 Only the trees that you know are not trees for food you may destroy and cut down, that you may build siegeworks against the city that makes war with you, until it falls.
A prescription for the women whose lifestyle were unholy: Burning alive at the stake:
Leviticus 21:9 (NRSV): 9 When the daughter of a priest profanes herself through prostitution, she profanes her father; she shall be burned to death.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Christendom followed this book to a T, and carried out burning at the stake, expanding it to include other male Christians who had a different biblical interpretation to them, carried out slavery and colonialism, persecution of heretics, inquisitions, witch hunts, slave trade etc., child abuse and kidnap of indigenous people, land theft. Guided by a hope for a bloody climax to history, they still war monger and support violence in the name of God to this day. They are "inspired".
From your videos I have learned about the power of indoctrination. However, I am confused why uneasy Christians first look for flaws in the Bible, before seeing that the existence of God is a farce. Why not first ask if God exists at all? Where is the proof of God's existence? If you come to the conclusion that God does not exist, then questioning the authenticity of the Bible becomes irrelevant.
Try watching 'Women talking ', adult content. An Amish sect in canada
Can you talk about Islam? And people who have stories about that
Christianity, intentional destroyers of all that isn't it
Its dominion theology its heretical