Ranting about Terrible Characters [Life Is Strange Before the Storm]
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Here we are... Again...
sighs
LET'S DO THIS!
#LifeisStrange #Beforethestorm #dontnod
Thanks to Mr Cake Dragonman For Editing The Video
MRcakeDragonMan ➤ / thelastcakegames
YiiK Video: • Games Aren't Art - YiiK
Chapters
0:00 - Disclaimer
1:39 - You Made Me Do This
3:25 - Prequels
5:55 - The Opening
6:57 - The ACTUAL Opening
14:24 - Your Choices Don't Matter
25:28 - Rachel Amber
51:30 - A Good Prequel - Y@kuza 0
54:20 - The Story
1:03:00 - Goro Majima
1:13:21 - Conclusion
1:15:21 - End Credits - Hry
![Ranting About Terrible Characters for 46 Minutes [Life is Strange VS No More Heroes]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7OJLpFeH7nM/mqdefault.jpg)
A terrible childhood is no excuse for a person being a borderline sociopath incapable of empathizing with other people and constantly abusing them.
If they were striving to be better while failing due to their imperfections, that could be something I'd be able to relate to. When Chloe is all me, myself and I and can't offer something interesting to back up the assholiness in this story, it falls into the corner of the unlikable asshole.
to quoe linkara: a sympathetic backstory is not the same as BEING sympathetic.
@@wannabehistorian371 Chloe wasn't abused 'til after she was past childhood; David isn't shown slapping her until the original LiS
@@wannabehistorian371 Gotcha 👍
Sounds like the internet.
I'm saying it again David is a better flawed character than Chole probably accidentally which is funny
Would gladly play as David any time than Chloe!
Agreed. I actually like David way more than chloe. He might be a jerk sometimes yet he's still an more enjoyable character than chloe.
And he is more empathetic.
I think the main reason is because David is a flawed person trying to do the right thing.
Whereas Chloe is a flawed person who almost *never* does the right thing since her ego is the size of the sun.
Petition to make LIS David Story.
The worst thing is when prequels contradict something that happens IN THE ORIGINAL game, movie, book, etc
Especially when the 2 aren't that far apart in terms of release.
To be fair, the game was made by an entirely different studio so obviously there will be contradictions
@@splash._ but lis whole gameplay/reason to play is the story and ok 1 mistakes isn't bad a couple is isn't unsalvageable but for a story, that can instantly break it in 2.
I wouldn't have been that hard on it if that wasn't the whole point of the game.
@@Nitosa There really aren't that many game breaking contradictions. Most of the contradictions are harmless background info
@@splash._ this still shouldn't be a thing if the dev team cares about their universe
The fact that David suffers from PTSD probably explains some of his behavior
And why they trying to make me hate the guy when he shows actual CONCERN for her and her mother?
And why the fuck does Chloe show very little care towards her mother?
Did you just say that the man who verbally abuses a then 16 yr old and treats her like a soldier and then implies she’s having fun with her father being dead, and then constantly harassed and stalked girls...... is better than the girl who was just bitchy at best at those she was pushing away due to shutting down?
@@Woeismyhoe did I say that? No no I didn’t. I said myself he didn’t have the right to slap her though he actually did have the right to suspect her.
Also: he was just trying to figure out what was going on, he just went about it completely the wrong way. He shows he does care about Chloe the minute that he loses his shit and kills the teacher if Max tells him that he killed Chloe.
Holy shit, y’all really love to put words in peoples mouths when Chloe is criticized huh?
Also: there’s no denying she had it tough but that’s not a excuse to be a bitch to people for absolutely no reason, ESPECIALLY her mother who has to constantly save her ass
Annnnnd your ignoring the PTSD part…….
@@Eureka2003
Definitely not slap her for one (and no I wouldn’t let him do it either, hell no)
And I wouldn’t constantly save the ass of someone who’s just gonna do it over and over again, by that point they’re just using me
The scene where you can tell Chloe is dead or not to him made him my favorite character
@@20thcentury_toy he straight up lost it. He was PISSED. It showed he did care about her but went about in completely the wrong way
Chloe died for me as a character when she said "Well, I gotta blame SOMEONE because otherwise it's all my fault".
And SO MUCH of the stuff that happens to her is her fault. She's a person who can't reflect her own actions 99% of the time and only could have done it by the end, because the script needed her too.
She does internalize that it is her fault, that’s why she says that. She believes it’s her fault why William died, why Max abandoned her, why Rachel is missing, why David abuses her. That’s literally her character?? Did you not play the prequel or like read her diary?
@@Woeismyhoe Ok I'm talking about LiS Chloe ONLY and not before the storm. I didnt like her in LiS because of all the shit she gives Max, whenever she disagrees with something. Also for William, no she blames her mom for that and is even sorry sometimes for it.
Max moved and apparently she didn't either try to contact her. For Rachel, she wants to find her because apparently she was in love with her or at least just really good friends.
Regarding David, yes hitting her was abuse and I ain't gonna deny it. Nevertheless, he was right in accusing her regarding the missing gun.
All I got from LiS is that Chloe only cares for what she wants and never really cares for other people, even if they just passed out because she made Max use her powers. Or the sentence "Yeah Kate Marsh killed herself. Such sad", knowing fully well that Max tried to save her and failed. No empathise from Chloe either.
Another example when Chloe and David start a fight and you wanna be the neutral party and hear Davids points. Of course he is not a saint and how he ignores other peoples privacy is wrong but he is not the devil the game wanted him to be so bad.
And no her losing her dad is no excuse for behaving like a dickhead the whole time. A reason? Yes. An excuse? No.
And with all that issue listed above, when I saw Chloe was the main character of Before the storm, I just left it to be. Funny how Rachel was the more toxic person of both of them.
@@revi6482 David was right to hit Chloe. She deserved far worse.
@@attackerangel2951 no hitting a person should never be an alternative. Grounding, cutting pocket money yes but physical violence goes way to far.
@@revi6482 , Chloe would have just stolen people’s money and broke out of the house whenever Chloe’s biological mother and her stepfather wasn’t looking, so what else was David supposed to do besides his only other option being slapping the shit out of Chloe, and honestly the shit David did is tame compared to the shit that Chloe, Rachel, and Max has done in the video games and in the comics.
After seeing the part with David, I’d say the “backtalk” mechanic would’ve worked with an opposing “reasoning” mechanic, both being ways to get out of a situation, but with different moral alignments: backtalk would net Chloe what she wanted, but in exchange she’d hurt her relationships and would start acting much worse, while reasoning wouldn’t always get her what she wanted, but she gets to improve in her relationships and development.
Ah decent writing
Like a paragon/renegade mechanic? Yeah, I like that
Except you’d see an actual change in the environment.
that would be so interesting! really gives the "your choices matter"
It's really dumb how they expect us to like a character that's the definition of an annoying teenager.
By being annoying teenagers ourselves who find this character relatable and can't see anything wrong with themselves, and therefore the character
kool create an irritating character,
Dont try to portray them as endearing
What’s funny is that tmnt is about four annoying teenagers.
That‘s the point? The game is about dumb teens with too much power on their hands trying to survive in their world the only way they know how? Like, can you comprehend that media doesn‘t want you to love every character ever?
@@takke9830 you are clearly supposed to like Chloe
I find it weird that people can't admit that the bad things they like are bad. I mean, I enjoy Andromeda and can admit freely that yes, it's pretty shit. Just accept the L and have a discussion about the points you enjoy and how you think they could improve on the shortcomings of it. Admitting the faults doesn't mean you're not a fan, it means you care enough to want it to succeed.
Yeah, i’m A prequel fan. Yes, they are bad, but I like them because that’s what I grew up with, and also Ewan McGregor. But yeah, they are bad
Yeah...like I can admit I kinda like the first LiS, but I agree with the criticism
I don't think it's great nor it deserved this many awards (although I think it deserved the Award for Music)
Both Space Jam movies aren't great, they are stupid...but I like them
Cars 2 is one of Pixars worst movies...but I also kinda like it despite knowing the movie is not great
I like Other M and I can admit it screws up its story a lot.
I like Sonic Forces and I admit it's B-Movie tier popcorn flick fun at best.
What's their excuse?
Some people wanna justify their feelings. Especially when it comes to a new game( or something recent that you would pay close to full price for) or justifying a purchase. People don't want to feel stupid, and some feel like they're belittled or being treated as stupid for liking something that is shit. Some people can't separate the two of something being shit and admitted to it being shit while liking jt
Tbf the first couple of seasons of Andromeda were legitimately good.....then the rest were......a thing.
Rachel is literally that person that only is nice to you if she gets her way, she’s honestly gives narcissistic vibes
... Isn't Chloe the exact same way though?
@@chaossnowkitsune6377 Chloe is consistently mean/snarky to Max and everyone regardless of if they bend to her whims or not meanwhile Rachel seems genuinely kind to the people when they have her best interests but becomes a calculated bitch when anyone does the opposite of what she wants.
Chloe is a self centered asswipe and Rachel is a self serving dick.
@@chaossnowkitsune6377 Yes.
yeah, i actually felt bad for chloe when rachel suddenly started treating her coldly. i hate people who act like they're your bestest of best friends one day and pretend you don't exist the next. i know her type. should've been a third option to just walk away or tell her to f off, instead of making chloe humiliate herself by begging for rachel to like her.
You know how characters are sometimes introduced as jerks but eventually we learn their sad backstory, so we can sympathise with them to a degree. Well, Chloe knows she has a sad backstory and uses that as an excuse for her behaviour.
I agree with that! And I wanna expand on that a little: I like flawed characters, heck I love them even, but those flawed characters still need something likeable about them. Like, lets take Deadpool as an example. Deadpool is NOT a good person..like...at all...but he has charisma, wits and is so fun to watch and hilarious, that people are still drawn to him. Chloe, for me, lacks this sort of charm and charisma. She's not very witty, her "comebacks" would confuse me at best and would make me laugh at her at worst. She acts like a child in the most frustrating times, 90% of her problems would be solvable if she would just have a mature and adult approach to them. Like, has she ever freaking talked with her mom about her problems and tried to see her side too? Has she ever considered, that maybe she needs to just suck it up and tolerate David without whining, because it's obvious that he makes her mom (WHO JUST S MUCH LOST HER HUSBAND AS CHLOE LOST HER FATHER AND IS WORKING HER ASS OFF FOR HER DAUGHTER) happy? Like damn, after my dad's death, my mom also found someone else and I had to step back a little because he makes her happy, even if it was hard for me. And now we get along pretty well. A sad backstory isn't enough for me to power through a game/movie/show, because MAYBE the character will have a development??? Flawed characters still need some sort of redeeming quality about them, even if it's just that they are funny. With Chloe, I just get frustrated because she's just like "I don't like this, so everyone around me as to adjust to this." Idk, it's just not enjoyable to watch for me. It may be realistic, in some way, but when I play a video game or watch a movie or show, I do it because I wanna have a good time and not get frustrated and angry just because it's" realistic". Realism does not always equal good.
Look at Sol Badguy from Guilty Gear. On the surface, he’s a lone wolf kinda guy who isn’t afraid to shittalk anybody. But when you look at what happened to him, you realize it’s all a front.
That whole "it's a prequel, so obviously the character that appears in the sequel won't die" part could be easily circumvented. Why not make multiple possible endings, and only one of them is the one that canonically connects with the sequel? It might even be a bit of a challenge to get that ending since it may be the hardest to get.
When a game has multiple endings and then gets a sequel later, the writers often just pick one of the endings as the canonical one. They could have done this here, except they made the sequel first.
That way, your choices matter™. No other medium except videogames could pull something like this, so why not use the strengths of the medium? Nooo, we gotta have a movie that pretends it's interactive!
Shin Megami Tensei has been doing this since the 90's
I very much agree with this. Also, your console/PC will know if you have save data, if you diverge from the events in the first game just give a small prompt that says "Hey we made a save as you diverted the timeline" and if you don't have that Data make the save secretly and either replay the story via a cutscene or just reload the save from the break. It will make people take both games more seriously
Actually that makes alot of sense because the comic for the original hints multiple concurrently happening timeless
Little Nightmares does this in an interesting way connecting the first game to the mobile game. I think it was clever and having only played the games this year I never guessed based on even the official blurbs. Spoilers for a 2017 game but
The protag in the mobile prequel is strung along to look and seem like the first protag, in the end we see her die and reveal it wasn't the same person as the real protag was an npc you see repeatedly throughout the game. Honestly, they did it well too. Although if you want to you can technically noncanonically let her die too. :)
Zero Time Dilemma does this but it's already based on time travel and multiple timelines. So it already kinda makes sense to have it done this way
can we not forget the mother is hurting too cus the man she choose to have Chloe with died and she's trying to move on while dealing with a child that just gives up. and then shell be dealing with her daughter dying later(if max lets her die). this woman probably is a wreak after this story.
But if you let Chloe live, she and the entire town of Arcadia Bay dies. I just can't do that.
@@PrimalDragon1740 I always choose that option. But not because I like Chloe. It's because I hate the people in that town lol
Also from the whole time traveling perspective I believe saving a whole town has more ramifications and can do more damage than saving one person. How many storms would THAT cause?
@@PrimalDragon1740 the reason Chole is more evil is Bc of Rachel
Rachel is the Real Villain
Chloe: Shoots the dog
John Wick: You know the rules and so do I. Say goodbye
Seriously though…..why the hell do people even like Chloe?
@@aussienimbat9988 or disagree just for the fact to disagree in a discussion.
@@aussienimbat9988 You kinda hit a similar note with the "Women are Wonderful effect" point but I have seen a lot of people who give her a pass because of L representation specifically, not just because she lacks a Y chromosome. I think that's why it got all awards too TBH, representation is deified in corporate media culture and has been for awhile, especially with L relationships it seems, moreso even then the rest of alphabet representation. I hate IdPol soooooooooo much!
@@aussienimbat9988 sounds about right
@@aussienimbat9988 I feel like I need to address your point about the Joker and say this:
In every media he's in, the Joker is *not* the good guy, he's not portrayed as the good guy. And even if he was he'd still have more of a point because (at least in the iterations I've seen) he actually tries to be a good person, hold up a job, and fails, pushing him towards his unstable self.
Chloe just wallows in her self pity and expects to be liked because she has a sad backstory.
I think most fans of Chloe don't understand that an explanation is not equal to a justification.
I agree.
Exactly
you can be a fan of someone w/out justifying their actions? like i don't see people going around cancelling joker fans bc clown man is problematic.
@@WildSableye well yes, but Joker is a bad guy and Chloe isn't, meaning a lot of people are going to get a way more angry when Chloe does something evil when compaired to Joker.
@@spouwnerring i'm not sure you understand the definition of good guy and bad guy. if someone does good things they are "good", if someone does bad things they are "bad", but liking a character that does bad things does not make you a bad person, you just happen to find them interesting.
I always hated Rachel and what I hated even more, was how her stepmom was pushed aside the moment she found out she was not her biological mother, despite the two clearly being very close and loving each other
I agree. However, the game's confusing to me when it comes to how Rachel feels about her mom. She clearly loves her, but she says some weird things about her. If you ask Rachel "What about your mom" when you're about to run away, she doesn't seem to care about her. She just says she's not about to live with her parents mistakes. WTF does that mean. She also never mentions being conflicted over telling her mom her dad's a cheater. The whole cheating thing seems to be about Rachel and how she feels betrayed. I don't remember a thing about her mom.
Another thing about Miles Edgeworth’s Logic Chess is that, while the object is to pry information, Edgeworth uses observation of the character and their dialogue to decide if he should talk back or stay silent. Edgeworth’s way of manipulating someone to spill secrets comes in the form of knowing what words to say and when to say them. The Blacktalk mechanic focuses more on Chloe throwing insults and manipulating someone to agreeing with her, which in itself is already toxic behavior. At least with Miles Edgeworth, he’s just doing his job as a Prosecutor in order to solve a murder and never uses Logic Chess, unless a witness of a crime is being difficult and not cooperating, which universally people will agree that no one should be difficult with a Prosecutor when trying to find the one responsible for taking someone’s life, especially if it was intentionally.
I’d hardly consider Miles Edgeworth a character to compare to Chloe, but I will say that his character, backstory and relationship with his childhood friend is the better version to Life is Strange. Miles Edgeworth also lost his father and hates the one that took him in, but the reason for that hate is justified, considering the man that is supposed to be his father figure killed his biological father, manipulated him and framed him for murder. Even if Manfred Von Karma did try to reach out to Edgeworth as a kid and care for him, his cons override any goodness he may’ve attempted, something we never see with Chloe’s step father in Life is Strange. Phoenix and Edgeworth also separated as kids and never saw each other for 15 years, but even with Edgeworth having Prosecuted Phoenix for murdering his own boss, most of the players can still forgive him, because he had been hurt those 15 years after losing his dad. He didn’t just lose a father from an accident, but a murder and had believed he was the cause of it for 15 years. That would mess anyone up and it made sense for Edgeworth to self deprecate himself. What excuse does Chloe have? It’s not like she blames anyone for her father’s passing, so why does she have to mess up her own life and make things hard for everyone else? More importantly, Edgeworth changes and becomes a better person. He goes overseas to study law for three years after the first game, he consoles with Phoenix, he apologies to everyone he’s hurt including his father’s student and he goes out of his way to help Phoenix to the point of impersonating as a Defense Attorney in Phoenix’s stead. Sure, Edgeworth is still kind of a jackass to Phoenix, but that’s often in court and it’s to call out Phoenix for messing up or insulting someone. As far as their relationship goes, both of them are always doing things for each other instead of using the other for themselves. Of course, their relationship is not romantic unlike with Life is Strange, but if it was, it would certainly have a stronger and healthier relationship that could go somewhere.
This was a really good analysis of both of the characters! I never thought to compare them either but, now that you mention it, Edgeworth really is a great example of how to do a character like Chloe right. He's also a great example of how to do a previously unlikable character players are supposed to sympathize with, at some point in the story, well. As you pointed out, there are plenty of reasons to feel empathy for Edgeworth. The storyline and his development really help the audience forgive. But with Chloe, well, most of the time she is just a jerk that rarely improves at all. The moment she shows any likable triats they are almost immediately covered with toxicitiy. Anyways, awesome comment!
Also, edgeworth actually develops as a character and becomes a better person as well. Can't say the same for chloe.
The only time Edgeworth used Logic Chess against someone who is not a witness was when he used it as a makeshift therapy session for a (somewhat) traumatised boy.
@@felisazure1820 Ty and, as I have already stated, I can hardly compare Edgeworth to Chloe, but he is one example of how to do an unlikable character you can empathize.
I do think Chloe could've been a better character, but only because I've seen unlikable characters the audience can empathize with that are done better. Ai from Persona 4 is one example of a bitch you can empathize with, Seto Kaiba is another unlikable character you can empathize with, Vegeta from DBZ is another unlikable character you can empathize and even starts out in a toxic relationship with Bulma before it grows to being a healthy relationship and Tony Stark was purposely created as an unlikable character the audience can empathize with. It would not be that hard to make Chloe empathetic, despite being a toxic person. For instance, the car accident that killed her father happened due to Chloe partying with some classmates to fit in before getting in their car while all of them are drunk, then running into her father's car, while he was searching for her that night. Because of how traumatizing that night was, her memory of that blacked out and had replaced the driver of that car to her step father, because he reminds her of the friend driving the car that ran over her father. This can be something Max discovers when she goes back in time to prevent the car accident. Chloe would still be a complete bitch, but now it is no longer for no reason and while it may not justify her actions, it can draw empathy from the audience.
@ True. Even so, Edgeworth made it clear that he didn't want to have to use logic chess on Seb.
What is it with companies and story writers who think that just giving someone a tragic backstory is supposed to make us sympathize with the character? Especially when the character has no redeemable qualities or make no attempt to change. This is why I can’t stand characters like Chloe and Rachel.
It’s a very toxic message and something even the game contradicts. Nathan is abusive to Samantha and Samantha even falls into the trap of feeling sorry for him. But the game doesn’t use Nathan’s abusive father as an excuse for this behavior. Meanwhile, Chloe and Rachel can act however they want and their behavior is never addressed. It’s just “They are acting this way because their home life has problems”
Lazy writing for lazy edginess sake.
@@Usagi393 because it is okay when the good guys do it, apparently
If only people understood that after the first game of the first reboot spyro series, that these reasons, especially the final game, are why I didn't like cynder, and yet her crazed fans will not accept anyone NOT liking her (but they will claim otherwise), and will try to defend her in every way with flawed logic, and when you try to point out inconsistencies, they will either strawman, use what-about-ism or the game itself to try to deflect any bad writing or bad/toxic trait the character may have, to the point that some even worship her to cult degrees. Skylanders SHOW she was okay (not as bad as her predecessors), until a certain political person from honest game trailers came along and she became a marry-sue to a lesser degree during the later kidnapping stage, which instantly detracted from her character yet again. Then they made a... THING the new elora which was sort of like a mix be the bad of the skylander's cynder, bit of ember from hero's tail, bit of og cynder from the later game's sass, and a bit of self entitlement and careless-ness too, that new elora is basically more or less the reignited's universe cynder. Heck Cynder fans she be put in every game due to entitlement of them and how the fandom is basically of a certain mindset ever around 2014 and got worse by 2018, being fused with some cod players who simp for activision to defend their medicore at best careless remakes.
Everyone from my personal experience, seems to always give girls a pass because "all women are weak and vulnerable and are to be treated with overly care (like items) instead of like men with held accountability" which shows me how f#cked up 1st world countries are where a lot of girls are so entitled and get away with Sh#t despite the claims of them wanting equality. They get away with almost everything, it's not even funny. Yet men always get everything done 2x fold now at bare minimum for their bad behavior. I am so glad that a few people acknowledge chloe, not alt. timeline chloe, is a BAD person. I had a abusive (in some areas) childhood, yet I never use it to push sh#tty behavior on to others and act "better than thou" and use it as a excuse to get out of messes I have made. Yes it is awful for what happen to people like that and they should be used to understand where they are coming from, but it shouldn't be used to keep allowing sh#tty behavior to go on, it should be handled humanly and appropriately, and modestly & kindly.
They should realize a tragic backstory doesn't give a free pass to do bad things
Wait, Chloe got all pissy with someone because a shirt was $20? Isn't....Isn't that how shirts for someone her size usually go for? Hell, isn't that significantly cheaper for a shirt you could get literally anywhere else?
I mean, for the price in the 2000s that would be a bit much but it is a concert t-shirt which makes sense.
I can’t be the only one to notice the terrible voice acting in this game. The pauses in the emotional parts don’t make it feel emotional, it makes it feel like people who can’t act are forcing themselves to sound emotional
Around this time a voice actors strike was going on, the girl who voiced Chole was a part of that strike and that's why she couldn't voice chole
For a character that is suppose to be like a ''Kameleon'' she is trash in acting since she sound the same when she is and isn't acting making her feel disingenuous/fake.
Which makes it ironic since misinterpretation about Kameleon changing color at will is a lie, they can't control it since it's based of the emotions and temperature of said Kameleon.
Meaning she sticks out like a sore thumb.
Also Rachel is supposed to be a great actor who can control poeple with her skill, but that also means the voice actor has to live up to that expectation, which is a hard thing they failed to capture.
So they instead made everyone dumber (or at least look stupid) so that she can still work as intended.
When chloe got shot😓😬
@@lol3615 I SHOT MYSELF!
One thing that bothered me a lot was when Rachel blew up on chloe even if you pick the option to cheer her up or give her space. Those choices don't matter at all. Rachel makes fun of chloe and chloe defends herself but the game makes it seem like chloe is the bad guy
This is the longest video that I've ever created.
I'm happy for Manga Kamen for letting my bitch ass join for this video. And honestly I feel like this is the highlight of my editing career.
I hope you all love this video and that I get to work for Kamen for years and years to come.
Your editing is wonderful. I love all the memes that are there, thank you for this video!
Awesome job!
Sunao Ni I Love You
You did a good job. This video may be over an hour long but as someone with ADD and has a hard time watching vids this long I'll admit. I never felt like clicking off.
You were the one who added in the epic AdumPlaze clips?
You're cultured, hehehe.
"I'm obsessed with the idea of capturing that moment innocence evolves into corruption, that shift from black to white to gray and beyond. However, some Blackwell students carry their hope and optimism with them like... an aura." Reminds me of the new protag of LiS3 with the mood-ring powers. Could the teacher have secretly gained superpowers too, but they gradually turned him into a villain? Nah, that'd require decent writing...
Life is Strange: your choices don't matter.
Mass Effect: your choices do matter. For example: being nice to Conrad Verner helps you massively by the third game.
@@barrybend7189 so if you share save files the choices will actually matter? Cool stuff
@@ReiChiquita567 he gives a wopping 190 war asset points in ME3.
@@barrybend7189 y saw or play l i s 2 ? The choices do matter
omg, if this ends up actually being in the game you should sue
I love how the same people who say that art is a subjective experience and that there is no objective way of judging it, then go on to tell you how you're wrong for disliking their beloved game.
Always a fun time
Their truth always changes to fit their argument. Classic
That‘s a strawman. The only argument we have is that your entitlement over being the most right out of everyone is cringy af.
@@takke9830 the absolute lack of self-awareness on you lmao
@@takke9830 no it’s not a fucking straw man-I’ve heard these two sentences one after the other more times than I can count.
Literally when talking about teen Titans go and how bad it is-I get told first that art is subjective then get told how wrong I am to bash it because it’s for kids.
And 3 people around them nodded and agreed and I immediately had to point out 1-the contradiction of those two statements and 2-the problem with treating children’s media as lesser with lower expectations therefore they are saying children deserve less because kids don’t have expectations so they don’t deserve good shit.
Legit this is an actual thing. Add some fucking self awareness in your soup mate
I feel like Amber's inevitable fate is some sort of poetic justice.
Yep, the girl on fire went down in flames and the girl who always shot herself in the foot that loved her got herself shot in the chest. Lovely. Though I find myself now feeling sorry for Chloe though not for the same reasons as the fandom. I feel sorry for her character because with some fine tuning she could be really interesting but the writers seemed more focused on making an emo lesbian fanfic Mary Sue.
Ironically because of Rachel Amber’s actions I do have some sympathy for Chloe now. Rachel manipulated everyone around her, especially those who truly loved her like Chloe and Frank, she manipulated them and used them for her own benefits and Jefferson played and used her like she did with Chloe and Frank. I have no sympathy for Rachel.
@@basedkaiser5352 Rachel is Chloe's Chloe. That kinda puts things into perspective.
David is a better flawed character then Chloe is! He can be angry, a dick, at times casually sexist, but he’s making an honest effort and he suffers from ptsd and survivors guilt, which can explain his behaviour. He’s a flawed character trying to do the right thing.
No he’s not! Chloe is the better character than David! David was in the wrong to hit Chloe!
David was a better more relatable character than nearly all the characters in that game. I would pay money to read more about him, or play a game about him while he was in the military with his friend
He admits he was responsible for half the conflict between them in lis2 and they end up making peace and becoming closer than ever
@@LilothestitchChloe might be the better person than David. I say might as I feel it’s debatable. Very debatable. It depends on your definition of a good person.
But also yes I agree that it’s never ok to hit someone. Discipline my ass. That’s abuse and what’s more is he says Chloe had it coming. That’s screwed up and something people who claim discipline don’t bring up. She has every reason to not like David.
But at the same time Chloe is a pretty toxic and abusive friend to Max. It’s not like they aren’t both abusive people. And I personally don’t really enjoy either of them.
But Davis is the better character because he’s better written. He is unintentionally written with more nuance than Chloe. Doesn’t mean I like him but I can recognize there’s more substance. And it helps that unlike Chloe, he’s not trying to be framed as likable when he does something shitty. Meanwhile the writing will justify Chloe being toxic to Max. Which makes David better written for his role in the story.
A good person isn’t always a good character and vise versa
If a prequel isn't treated with care..It could damage the main thing.
No. Just ignore the prequel. That's what I did and I'm satisfied
There was nothing to ruin anyway
And conversely, if the prequel is good, it could greatly improve the first. Clearly, this series didn’t do that lol
A minor point. Jefferson wasn't the one who killed Rachel. Nathan (who was trying to follow in Jefferson's paces) accidentally gave her too much of the drug, and Jefferson covered the whole matter up. It doesn't negate the point you're making about drugging being a huge theme in the first game, then treated as a joke in the second though.
That was also the reason Chloe got away from Nathan he used a smaller dose out of fear of killing someone again so she managed to get over it faster and run.
David: tries to be a good stepdad and help chloe’s mum and chloe
Chloe: NO you’re not supposed to be a good stepdad and tell me how to be better for this family!!!
Also is it just me or was I the only one who Chloe’s mom and stepdad a cuter relationship than any of the potential romance between the main characters
Yes and Yes.
david learns with his mistakes but he wasn't the best person, he were always harassing students at school (poor kate was drugged by nathan and all of her classmates were calling her slut, while David was just stalking her and taking notes that she was selling drugs, the poor girl almost killed herself) and there is times he used to joke about chloe's father, david was a good husband but not a good step father
Definitely.
At this point, it's more like David is the one being mistreated.
I was literally thinking about that few days ago that there a more healthy and a cute romantic couples than the main couples were supposed 2 in the game. 😃
The only Time I felt any emotion in life is strange is when Max dump frank's beans on the floor. That was a far more sympathetic story than the entire game. Should have done a prequel to explore how Frank's love for beans started.
I liked Max. She was cool.
"Those were my fucking beans!"
@@cherryblossom7120 she was fucking insane.
I W A S E A T I N G T H O S E B E A N S
As an avid Baked Benas enjoyer, Franks reaction was realistic and justified.
My feelings towards life is strange and I think Dante said it best:
“What the hell is this?”
"I fail to see the logic here."
I know a lotta Chloes. Best way to handle them is to treat them how you would discipline a spoiled child.
@@murderman8578 You don't give them any unnecessary attention and when they act out, tell them to shut the fuck up. They'll hate you, but deep down, they'll respect you.
@@lunamaria8788 just treat an already damaged person like shit! That'll show them!
I legit only know of one fictional Chloe that isn't a total bitch for no reason... The down side is... If you know, you know,
@@lukebytes5366 Yes we should totally just reward their bad behaviour thereby ensuring that they never change or improve themselves or their behaviour that'll show 'em! /s Being damaged goods is never ever an excuse to be your worst self especially for an extended period of time that shit doesn't fly when I pull it nor should it, the same applies for everyone else. If such behaviour is allowed or worse encouraged it will eventually freeze a person as their worst self forever, unable and unwilling to change and an eternal danger and burden to themselves and everyone they interact with, that inevitably drives everyone away from them. A cursed, evil existence that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
@@GodOfOrphans And if they're smart enough they'll learn something from it. Like their actions have consequences, and realizing that they're being treated like shit because they ACT like shit.
I cringe not only at the "she had it hard, so she's allowed to be mean to everyone", but more at the idea that this is her therapy instead of any other option.
Yeah like I get she wants to vent it out and all but at least do it in productive way
Your drawings make Chloe look cooler than she exactly is, i respect that. 👏
Glad you broke down why the back talk mechanic was bad from a gameplay perspective but let’s be frank. It’s just plain idiotic. A freaking bouncer stopped doing his job cause some skinny white girl hurt his feelings?
He didn’t let her in because his feelings were hurt. He did it because he knows she’ll just keep pestering him.
@@SOULE547 he’s a bouncer. That’s literally his job to prevent.
@@carlackersii The thing is some people just don’t care and will let underage people in clubs or have alcohol
He kinda just laughed? Idk
1:44 Chloe: i do believe in gun control. It's the men who need to be checked.
Also Chloe: *doesn't take the necessary precautions by wearing a bullet proof vest or packing a trauma kit in case of any accidents, also lacking the proper training in the event of SOMEONE getting shot*
Me: disappointment, but also not surprised. 😑
I wonder how often The Writer's frequent Twitter.
So she's an open misandrist, AND a hypocrite.
Where the hell would she get a bulletproof vest or have the time/money for medical training to treat GSWs?
@@visassess8607
David's a security guard with a military background. If she's scumbag enough to steal his guns from him, she's scumbag enough to steal other gear too.
And where would she get the time and money for training? There are THREE YEARS of time between the prequel and the first game. Plenty of fucking time for Chloe to both get a job and educate herself. Hell, plenty of time to legally acquire a gun. But of course smoking weed and being an edgelord is more important than taking responsibility, so she can't have that. She's 5000 bucks in debt with Frank, presumably all of which is pocket money she gets from Joyce, and she doesn't pay a dime of rent either. Claiming that she doesn't have time or money for any of this is ludicrous.
Just like Alec Baldwin.
Over an hour of ripping LiS some new holes.
We feasting like kings and queens today.
He tore LiS so hard that even the elderly can eat the flakes.
Why I like red dead redemption. It is a prequel but it is its own game. To where it makes sense. And your actions does speak during the game play while keeping the original game it's own.
And better memes
@@John-Stark I've got a plan, Arthur!
And it also makes the story of the first game even better
@@Takejiro24 Have some Faith, Arthur! Hwve some goddamn Faith!
(I'm not a big Fan of the Bad Karma ending for Arthur, because it's much less peaceful, but getting to stab You know who into the Eye is just *so* satisfying!
Yes! That's what you get, you Piece of Sh*t! It's what he deserves.)
They also manage to make us love Arthur, while most player hated Arthur at first, screaming " We want John Marston !". Then, bam, the game happen and most people considere Arthur one of the best character ever made.
David > Chloe.
I don't care, I don't care, I don't care.
I like him more than her.
And I don't even _like_ Life Is Strange.
Chloe shot a dog.
@@johnpoole3871 Angry John Wick Noises.
Even in the first game I didn't dislike his character. As a former problem teenager who now appreciates my dad being tough with me and stopping me from screwing my life over, I sympathized from the get go.
He tried to be better but Chloe is shit
I know I'm kinda late but I think i know why this is kind of true
Note: David had anger issues and Chloe lost a loved one
Now: I'm not justifying David's actions, I'm simply putting peaces from his story together to see why he does the things he does
Now I can begin.
It was shown that David had anger issues, and did most of the things he did because of father (who was forcinghim i believe). While he tried to be a better person his anger won't stop even with the help of medication, and his father did not help him at all.
Chloe on the other hand, lost her father and her friend at once, and while it would be understandable if Chloe didn't keep shutting off people who are trying to help her, she's being surrounded by the support that David doesn't have but ACTIVELY REJECTS IT IN A STUPID WAY. Her mother and her step father tried to help her but she kept shutting them off and acting like she knows what to do even though she clearly doesn't, and acts manipulative too. And while Rachel's loss was another loss for her, the prequel just ended up making a single help make Chloe fall in love with Rachel, which is so ?????? (Note: it also creeps me out how she tried to get with max while looking for her "girlfriend". She either knew Rachel was dead which makes her max manipulation just worse or she genuinely thought Rachel was alive and started cheating on her)
I think what's worse is how used David is, I forgot but I think he even hates his father...
And although Chloe's family is poor AND STILL TRYING TO SUPPORT HER, Chloe still doesn't do shit to at least help them, (and for the ppl who want lesbian rep it STILL would have been better if Max ended up in a relationship with Kate, a genuinely nice person and ended up being friends with her friends too, it would have been so much better if the story was about leaving toxic friends behind)
I do not know how to word this better since Englisch is just my third language, but I hope you get my point
I love how the fans who went out of their way to defend the game just said things like "It's a good game!" instead of coming up with valid arguments.
Sam & Max : The Devils Playhouse has better storytelling and characters than Life is Strange and I am not wrong .
The soda poppers were more likeable than most LIS characters.
Never played devils playhouse but that’s scaring me. I liked the original, hearing that they’ve made a bad Sam and max game is sad to hear
@@ma.2089 It’s not bad it’s just not a serious game like LIS was trying to be its the best one in my opinion
I looked it up…it’s got good reviews. How is LiS even remotely comparable to S & M?
@@ma.2089 I tried to think of a game better than LIS it wasn’t hard
Recently my friend finally pushed me enough to play the first game. The mechanics were... fine, but Chloe almost single-handedly was making me hate the game. I despise her with a passion.
I got to the gun part where Chloe shoots the bottles, and lucked out in choosing to get her to shoot herself via ricochet.
Now, I have a confession: I'd already had the ending decision spoiled for me years ago, even if I didn't know most of the rest of the game. Obviously I was going to choose to have Chloe die, and relish in my decision when I got there. But when Chloe shot herself, I had a revelation. The only choice that's better than choosing to have Chloe die for the good of us all, is choosing to have her kill HERSELF because of her own moronic decisions. And knowing that I could save her easily with the press of a button, but opting to just watch her bleed out instead. For the good of us all, of course.
So I closed the game. That's my canon ending- Chloe bleeds out because she shot herself, and everyone else lived happily and better ever after. The End.
My friend is still incredibly pissed that I refuse to play more of the game. But I think I finally got exactly what I wanted out of it. I'm satisfied.
Lmao why you so mad
Creepy but ok
She gets stuck and the train kills her 😁👍
@@lol3615 My man!
@ryuzaki9315 It's funny you say that about them, all while their friend is the one pissed that they aren't finishing the game. There isn't even anything suggesting that OP is mad.
Alternate title: "Thinly veiled excuse to gush more about Yakuza."
Yakuza is a good example of prequels AND sequels. The writing is almost always compelling. Mostly cause it wasn't full of itself
Life is strange and it’s prequel is dog shit honestly. But life is strange 2 is actually surprisingly good, Ig the creators learned from their mistakes
Anyone else want to have a LIS game where you play as David? Think I would have much more enjoyment than Chloe proving how much of a terrible human being she is!
He is a ass of a step-father but he is compassionate and a ok husband who tries multiple times to better the situation, compared to kill myself because of my hubris 1000x.
My grandfathers found out they were adopted and never had that much stupidity Rachael had the moment she felt betrayed, they still called their adoptive parents mom and dad without question :3
I never got those you're adopted things
how is that painful? You literally have people who care for you and you want your original parents who threw you away?
Anybody can pop a baby out, but it takes a real person to step up and be a loving parent that can provide a good future.
Bro... you're comparing being adopted to she discovering that her dad betrayed her mother... Specially when you take into consideration that she had a "perfect" life. Rachel never needed to deal with any type of life impacting issue so she doesn't know how to react
@@osuperxicao well if anything she wouldn't be stupid enough to visit her drug addled biological mother, since daddy dearest said she was given up for the same reason my niece is now without a mom, I mean it's not rocket science that biology mom is not in best interest of anyone, and about the cheating that's up to the mother whether she's cool with it, which I'm surprised more with the lack of a dead husband :3
Yeah, “Killer” on the background perfectly fits for my hatred to Chloe as very, VERY bad character that shouldn’t exist (exception - educational example of how to NOT create characters)
I mean, ther'es also Kyubey as an example.
I was thinking of Kira for the rest of the video.... The second best villain in jojo
Think I said this before, but if Chloe is really this unironically horrible of a character... good God, what are her *fans* like?
Probably some edgy teenagers who think they are badass by yelling at people ,who think they are different than others but wear the same edgy clothes ,post same edgy pictures on social media ~~
@@Tombbistol they probably are Chloe in real life. Or worse, they're the kind of people who think a person being sad and hurt is enough to excuse everything because "it's not their fault."
Twitter
i know this is late but damn... i had this online best friend of 6 years, long story short we became like oil and water, our views, likes and dislikes didnt match anymore as well as they did in the past... i decided to ghost her to give us some space - she responds by blocking me EVERYWHERE
which really hurt because she has always been nice to me and this showed that its all been a front and she couldnt wait to get me out of her life
i know this because she trash talked many people behind their backs while acting kind in front of them (including our other friend), idk why i thought she wouldnt do that to me
she also sent a person to attack me after; i know it was her who did it because she would often tell me about this exact person and how annoying they are)
but to come back to your question... yes she was a massive chloe fan
Idk, when I was younger I always gravitated toward more edgy, angry, and asshole characters, mainly bc seeing them use their voice and speak their mind when I never could was something I clung to. It was cathartic. Still kinda is.
Being the shy, "innocent", gifted child who was supposed to be an example, I would naturally gravitate toward both real and fictional people who were more extroverted, and even aggressive, because it was a side of myself that never got to be expressed and that I had basically been trained to suppress and ignore. Again, cathartic. Fortunately I never adopted any of the traits. It was just something I used to cope when I had no idea how to understand or help myself. I would get defensive over them though lol. It was kinda inevitable, getting so personally attached to them made criticisms against them feel personal lol, but growing to accept and become comfortable with those kinds of things pretty much just comes with growing up in general.
49:46 For this section:
When you go through trauma as a child, there are one of two possibilities:
1) You avoid engaging in any of the traumatic behaviors you witness/experienced, to the point to where it makes you apprehensive & fearful about things could lead to trauma - even if it's unlikely (Aka, social anxiety).
2) You will do the exact same things & experience - or even cause - said trauma because it's all you know.
Rachel Amber becoming a lying cheater isn't acceptable or morally justifiable, but it _is_ believable. Especially for teenagers who haven't properly learned how to process trauma properly, and instead, internalize it.
@@Mangakamen I'm not gonna pretend that Rachel isn't garbage or has garbage justifications for her actions (like... what can justify starting a fucking forest fire?), but I will say that there was definitely trauma there - of the emotional variety. It's referred to in the psychological field as "betrayal trauma" - when someone's trust is violated by a person they rely on.
Her father lying to her about her mother, the fact that they kissed & Rachel thought he was cheating, the fact that the person she's known as her mom actually _isn't_ her mom... all these things can be traumatic, and they clearly were to Rachel, as she feels _betrayed_ by her father hiding these things from her. Yes, he had good reasoning for doing so, but that doesn't change the fact that he lied to her.
As far as your other points... when people don't know how to process their emotions or deal with their trauma in a healthy way, it can definitely lead people to do things that don't necessarily make any sense. Does that necessarily equal to Rachel banging the guy that kept her from seeing her mother? No. But remember, Frank is also her drug dealer & in the first game, it's implied that Rachel started engaging in heavier drug use (another way to poorly process trauma) after the events of BtS. Meaning that it's likely Rachel was using Frank for his drugs, despite him being involved in her mother's estrangement from her.
Don't get me wrong, Rachel is garbage tier & I don't really see what Chloe sees in her. But Rachel's actions aren't far out of the realm of possibility for a toxic teenager who has a major character trait of handling trauma & conflict very poorly.
In short, Life is Strage was written by Chloes, for Chloes.
Yeah the Rachel drugging Victoria thing really was the crossed ths line for me mostly because I would never do it because you know its like really wrong and also illegal I get it Victoria is a jerk and rude to the characters but that doesn't justify druging someone and possibly causing harm I know Victoria was going to do it first but that should be seen as a bad thing regardless of who does it. Another thing that makes it so bad for me is there was never a time were I interacted with people like this even the shitty people in my school would never stoop so low to druging someone its just plain wrong.
Yay, more Life Is Cringe with MangaKamen. Perfect way to start my weekend
The end of the weekend for me
This game caused me legitimate pain. And in some ways, it’s even worse than the first game. I haven’t finished this vid, but so far, I’ve agreed with every word you’ve said. The fact this franchise was a success actually angers me because of how poorly written it is and the extremely unlikable characters.
The fact that you can clearly see what they were going for with such an easy way to smooth out the plot if they just put it together differently had me screaming at the screen just watching clips of it, I swear
Tbh it got popular since it was one of the only games with a Canon lesbian relationship. Take that off and the time it was made when people dressed like Chloe and the game would've tanked
The same reason Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray are popular: teenage girls. Now with Lesbian as the spice since it's the current fad.
@@dcscruz2970Can you tell me some games with healthy lesbian couples? I only know 2 or more.
@@vilmavenlaJust asking, but what are those two?
david is a much more likeable character because even when he does reprehensible shit (like slapping chloe and being sexist) there are still high points. Every "good" thing chloe does falls short
also fellas you can say slapping david slapping chloe is bad and chloe is a bad person in the same breath
I can’t tell if Chloe is badly acted or if the character just ruins it.
Yes
It feels like the VA was doing her best to portray the emotion as best as she could. It's just that the emotions are being fired everywhere without a scrap of self-improvement and the script has its head up its own anus.
Both.
I think it’s the character. The writing isn’t giving her a lot to work in. The VA is selling “moody, angsty, wallowing in self pity” teenager well to me. Now Rachel’s VA, who is supposed to be a charismatic manic pixie dream girl, she is completely phoning it in. She sounds like she just woke up
@@Usagi393 nah I think that's just how she is, Sarah in ff15 and aloy come to mind first. In a way it kinda works, but when it comes time for the character to show emotion it's really weird, in my opinion.
I watched Jacksepticeye's playthroughs of these game and I feel like I've gotten the full experience, no reason to go out and buy them.
Did Sean like the game?
*highly emotional scene in which Chloe lays her feelings out on the table* “Come on… say something!” *Discover ad plays* “Discover will match all cash back you’ve earned within the first year!” I busted out laughing that shit was more emotionally moving than the original scene
One thing that should be mentioned are the characters' reputation prior to the prequels being released.
Rachel was a character you would know by hearsay from other characters in the first Life is Strange. You would paint a picture of her by listening in on what secondary characters had to say about her, and overall think of her as someone who left a positive impression on the people she was friends and overall close with, so you would be somewhat compelled to investigate her whereabouts. And eventually be shocked once you found out she was dead all that time.
But get to the prequel, where you spend a great portion of it developing a relationship with her, and things seem like either everyone lied about her in the first game, or she was REALLY good at deceitful relashionships, 'cause she nothing like they described!
Whereas Majima was already a pretty popular character in the Yakuza series, even as an antagonist. So much so that it stood toe to toe with Kiryu's by the time of Yakuza 5's japanese release. The prequel that is Yakuza 0 gave an opportunity to shine a light especially on Majima as a protagonist and reveal more of his personality, and in turn managed to recontextualize his persona throughout the series without straight up damaging his character. Or so I think.
I always viewed it as showing the why for his behavior. He spent years living like a caged up animal and partially snapped from all the bs in his life to that point. When he finally broke free he chose to live life to its fullest unrestrained by the standards of others and only by his own.
Most of the students at Blackwell said positive things about her but the adults didn’t have a positive view of her, she was even a called a gold digger. The adults were right.
The students all had different opinions of her. You hear numerous contradictory things about Rachel, depending on who you talk to.
The Life is Strange series is a "Be a POS simulator"
The writers actively oppose the ideas of empathy and responsibility in favor of self-centeredness.
MangaKamen: the youtuber with unpopular opinions, and because it's unpopular it's automatically wrong
AWESOME
I've seen better story telling in Connect 4 than Life is Strange
A game of "Operation" has more drama then life is strange.
@@silentecho92able high tension and starting drama with your friend cause they cant pull out the shoe from the stomach right. Now thats real drama
@@silentecho92able also hearing that deafening buzz filling with dread, as the patient slowly drifts further into the afterlife.
The shoo was the final straw that broke the camels back, as you drop the pliers on the ground making a defeating thud.
Cute Ohya PFP. Kawakami is the best but Ohya is criminally underrated.
@@GodOfOrphans thanks dude, Never thought I would see someone else that likes Ohya, since she's hated for no reason.
Wow, those comments from the last video about this game are amazing. Don't you just love people that present their opinions as fact in place of literally anything to back up their opinion? Imagine the ego a person has to have to believe that something that's literally a subjective opinion is actually a fact simply because it's THEIR opinion.
Edit: Watch this man's Yakuza 0 video and/or play the game. Seriously, not only is it easily the best prequel game I've ever played, I consider it one of the best games I've ever played period.
Saw one where they thought it was how they should react to these situations
Yikes.
I just have to say I love your user name and profile picture 😂
Sounds like someone else I know...not mangakamen, but the comment section here.
Now that I really think about it, Rachel's reaction to learning about her birth mother was kinda unwarranted. I completely understand why her father didn't want Rachel to meet her and at the same time, I understand why Rachel would despite everything Sera has done. But the fact that Rachel has made immoral and dangerous decisions, herself, would serve as evidence that meeting her mother may be risky if she were to be a bad influence on her.
Nathan and David are both more dynamic and interesting (David trying to adjust to civilian life, survivors guilt, PTSD, and integrating back to society; Nathan with his intense abusive home life, over medication and Jefferson's influence over him, which was sponsored by Nathan's father) characters than Chloe or Rachel.
The drugging scene in Life is Strange 2 gets worse when you backtrack to the first game and realize that Chloe was drugged by Nathan too:
"Max: So what about you and Nathan?
Chloe: We went to his room at Blackwell. We drank and I laughed at his rich kid bullshit. He was one step ahead and put something in my beer..."
So...your telling me someone who got drugged through their drink would react kindly to their friend wanting to do the same exact thing??? I just don't buy it.
I assume Nathan drugging Chloe happened after this game, since Jefferson hasn’t been hired by the school yet. But still, the first game took date r*pe/drugging girls seriously. Here it’s a joke. The play director doesn’t even blink at Victoria passing out
@@Usagi393 jesus its such a weird vibe like how...is a faculty member not gonna be concerned one of his students just passed out in front of him?? If we really wanna be messed up and say she didn't really matter to him it doesn't really justify it at all given that Victoria is one of the more rich, valued students at Blackwell. It's such a weird scene I think was trying to be comedy but oof its pretty yikes.
Drugging scene is also worse when you realize Chloe was going to dope Nathan first and then rob him when he was out then blackmail him afterwards so she got her just dessert really
What is with this voice acting and dialogue?! Did David Cage write/direct this?! PEOPLE DONT TALK LIKE THIS!
Nah, even Cage would laugh at those dialogues.
Rachel was a complete monster, stalked then dragged Chloe with her to stalk her dad, gaslighting then berating Chloe into stealing wine when she gets pissy, sets a forest on fire, drugs Victoria or openly praises Chloe for doing it, just for a stupid part in a play she lost out on for skipping school, convinces you to run away from your problems with her excusing any hesitation you have for wanting to maybe work it out with your mom and david, then she admits on stage to everyone basically that your relationship with her may flash and end but aren't you grateful you aren't lonely for now?, besides seeing you get to do what you want makes me, Rachel, jealous, the girl who literally has half the school around her finger, she somehow can't bear to see chloe "free" to do what she wanted because of her grief and anger, rachel basically said here let me cling to you and use you as my own outlet because I'm somehow mature enough to contemplate the stars but still immature that I blame my dad for not wanting me to meet my neglectful junkie mother, man had to hire someone to scare her off because she wouldn't take no for an answer and stalked her daughter and her family all over town only a year into sobriety. James didn't even want her dead just to leave town and not ruin everything, overdosing her was Damons idea AFTER James told her she was a year clean and drugs wouldn't charm her away anymore. So Rachel was an idiot and Chloe for some reason calls this idiot her angel when Rachel hurt Chloe more than anyone in this franchise
I know this is a very hot take but I feel like Rachel made Chloe a lot worse, like she manipulated her to the point of being the crappy character we see now.
Think about it, the longer Chloe stayed around Rachel the less and unless empathetic Chloe becomes until the end of the story where she's the apathetic mess we see now.
@@jjadac3529 oh no I agree with you completely Rachel is 100% the reason Chloe was as annoying as she was in the first game. All Chloe talked about was Rachel even using Rachel as the push to make Max do what she wasn't comfortable with because she knew Max would try to over compensate because she didn't like confrontation with anyone
Rachel only clung to Chloe to use her to rebel against her parents, pretty much admitted she stalked Chloe by her locker to know she didn't have a cat allergy in the two truths and a lie game.
I didn't believe for a second Rachel loved Chloe, just saw a misfit to cling to and "save" just so SHE had an excuse to act out.
Rachel was the beloved student who could do anything but outwardly speak out against her mom and dad?!
She didn't need Chloe as proof she slept with Frank Bowers and Jefferson the photography teacher. Anyone who she thought could get her out of Arcadia Bay.
I'm only team Pricefield because they had the history to build off of. Not some three day emotional bender Chloe and Rachel were on
@@angelicafigueroa0221 THIS 💯
Kinda surprising they made something worse than the original Life is Strange, but given the times we're at (even before 2020), practically anything can go wrong to an already flawed property.
I wish Rachel was an actual likeable character 😭😭
1:13:54 I don’t know why some think you should compare Chloe to Sayaka. Sayaka wanted to make sure her band mates were okay and the only way out was to kill someone and get away with it. Sure, Sayaka was acting on her self interest but her back was against a wall. Chloe never had stakes that high.
I had to do a double take when he mentioned Sayaka. It's weird to compare them at all, Sayaka and Chloe literally have nothing in common, not even the shade of their hair is the same.
@@Mangakamen it’s almost desperate how they’re trying to stick up for Chloe
@UCU2djNtZsZ5glRXtjEmqlAA Yes Chloe, the girl who had her father taken away at a young age, the girl that takes anti depressants, the girl who got abandoned by her best friend then lost Rachel Amber, basically her girlfriend, the girl whose mother brought a stranger into her home that was abusive and mysgonistic, the girl who was kindnapped, drugged and violated at the start of the first game, the girl who showed remorse for Kate's situation and apologized for her immaturity the day before....Yet you wonder why people love and defend her and relate to her....FUCK OFF
@@Mangakamen what???? Umm ok
@@narutardo_king Uh I think you got the wrong comment thread or something, cause what I'm seeing doesn't make sense in this context. I don't know who you're arguing against.
But regardless, a tragic past alone doesn't exactly make her a compelling character or excuse her for being a bad friend (she is suppose to be the best friend role in the story, a different role might suit the story better).
I honestley like life is strange because of max, when chloe appears on screen she's just annoying, I don't know why people like her the one reason I can come up with is that people see themselves in her, but I just remember she doesn't change (until you choose to sacrifice her) it's an excuse for people to make when they act like her and think it's ok.
When Amber got stabbed and the whole dramatic way the game tried to treat it had me laughing my ass off the first(and only) time I played this game.
So here my reasons for why LIS2 is actually a better game than LIS and LIS:BTS. 1) an actual morality meter that can affect the choices in the game. 2) More than two endings! Thats right my bar is so low in this series that having more than two endings actually makes it better than the other two games. Also 3) No Chloe, It just makes it waaaaaay better. I have my problems with the game sure, but these three reasons are why I like the game.
I honestly wonder what kind of terrible LIS:TC is going to have in store for us.
@@Mangakamen It's not tho???? On a new game the ending of the first game is randomized, you get a 50/50 chance of either if you didn't take the option to choose which ending you took. There is no Canon ending because that would be really unfair to everyone who choose to save the bay ending which from my understanding is still the more popular option?
(Lets hope this doesn't mysteriously get deleted.)
@@Oniqueen why did his reply disappear? what did he say?
1:06:30
Small correction; Majima forced to run the biggest clubs for punishment but rather it was originally one of the worst. Its just that within those 3 years between his initial punishment (his eye being gouged out) and his more long term one (being forced to run the club) he managed the shit out of it to the point it became the largest club.
One of Majima's characteristics/key points is that he is apparently a wizard with money. Its another reason why he wasn't just out-right killed after a few month of managing the club, and why whenever he takes leave from direct control of the yakuza, he can essentially make bank in any industry he choses to go into (his construction company being one in Yakuza 2). He is a money printer and can multiply funds remarkably easy, which is why (or at least one reason) he is considered a big player within the Tojo Clan and none of the other chairman can ever really go up against him. They believe the moment they take him out in any way, the Tojo would cripple itself terribly to the point that any other clan would be able to crush them without any effort (which sort of happens in Yakuza 2, sort of proving the point).
Why is Manga Kamen torturing himself by playing more games in this series?
Can't we get videos about some good stuff? Like No More Heroes?
If he makes a no more heroes 3 vid after release I'm instantly watching it.
Tragic backstories are reasons for actions, not excuses. Your actions still have consequences even if they were done because of trauma.
I love hearing different opinions on this. I actually DISLIKED chloe more in the prequel than in the regular LIS. So seeing the backstory of how she got to where she was made me LESS sympathetic. I felt so sorry for Joyce and David was redeemable
Also Chloe and Rachel's relationship was toxic. Both co-dependents
VERY Well said.
@16:21
David is literally telling Chloe, nay, BEGGING her to be a more responsible teen, which teens rarely are, FOR HER MOM'S SAKE. And what does she do?
Treat David like a dick for it....
Dear Chloe Fans,
Would you kindly remind me as to why I'm supposed to like her again??
I loved LIS, but even when I watched ur video I have to agree tbh! I never realized how much of a shitty friend chloe is, and that’s probably because I was very young when I first watched it. Although I did have the common sense to hate Before The Storm
I still love LIS tbh, but I can recognize the many flaws
Kinda felt the game should of just focus on Chloe and having a new friend samantha mayers from before the storm who wants to see and help chloe be the best she can be and even have Chloe unsure if she wants to move forward and focus on a moral how people can sometimes lose their way and sometimes their actions might push people away but no instead we got a Chloe and Rachel filler story that coped out at the end
Same, and ironically I dated a girl named Chloe around that time that Before the Storm came out, I have the first game but have never played BTS. I was 18 at the time so I thought the series was great, but now see the character flaws.
Frank turned into "asshole", becouse:
1. Chloe owes him $5000
2. Based on your decidion, you can try to shoot him (which big majority of players tried)
3. He misses Rachel
4. Chloe acts like an asshole herself towards him
Also, if you are nice to him and don't provoke him, he acts like a decent guy and even offers you his help with finding Rachel.
It forever pisses me off that subsequent LiS comics treats the Arcadia bay destroyed ending as the canon one…and is the one that’s treated as the good one in Lis 2
Life is strange is practically made for the tumbler crowd who are “strange”
After hearing about how nasty Rachel and Chloe are, I have never wanted to give two people the middle finger so hard before in my life. Chloe's backtalk is insufferable. Rachel hypocrisy is awful. And both of them do several terrible things to others for their own benefit, and the game expects me to LIKE them?! FUCK THAT!!! I swear, Fire Emblem Fates writes its characters better than this, and that game is considered to be one of the lower entries in the series. I mean, I liked it, but I digress. You know what? Rachel being killed by drug overdose and Chloe's multiple deaths in the original game? Totally deserved.
Life is even more boring with worse characters
And strange
I'm of the belief that a prequel isn't a good prequel unless it not only enhances the game/other media that came first, but can also stand alone as it's own title; instead of having to fully rely on the plot points of it's predecessor to be good. Basically, if you're a person who's never seen the original, you can experience the prequel first and not only does it seamlessly transition into the original content, but enhances it with the extra context that you've learned
This is perfect timing. Just got done with work and this video gets uploaded. Thanks Manga
to be fair having chloe as a main character was a clear sign this game was going to be shit
People only like chloe because she is eother living their tumblr dreams or because the find her hot. There is no other reason
Hopefully the new LiS doesn't warrant a video in the future.
It's Life is Strange. It absolutely will. Dontnod have a talent for making the absolute worst out of a premise every time.
It will...
Then there’s Tell Me Why, Twin Mirror, and Captain Spirit.
It looks SOOO SO BAD I’m almost excited to see it bomb 💀
@@MultiKbarry Tell Me Why is surprisingly good for a Dontnod game
The thing that genuinely bothers me most about Rachel Amber (and to a degree even Chloe) in this is how quickly she cast her parents away. I'm adopted, I never knew my parents. Granted i was made aware of this rather early in my life (I was a painfully curious child) but despite my bitterness with my family as of late, I would *NEVER* pretend none of the great things mean nothing!! Rachel Amber in the context of this game is ungodly privileged in her life and yet we are made to sympathize with her that she can't meet her mother that gave her up for drugs?!
Fuck that. The very idea of throwing away a rather great life all on a whim that ended up doing more harm than good is foolish at best
With sequels like these I think it could be a way to show not only what lead to the main game but what else COULD have happened if done carefully
Prequels*
Like multiple endings, you can even have some deaths that way since there's always one canonical ending, like it's the same as having the first game be the prequel and the next being the sequel.
Since the creators still have to pick a canonical ending.
37:40 Interesting fact: in LiS it was implied that Rachel knew about the Dark Room and might have even helped Jefferson, because in her letter she says that Jefferson is “kind of scary”, and behind that letter is also a piece of paper that included the code of the Dark Room, and David had caught Rachel bringing same drugs to the school that were used by Jefferson on his victims and she was interrogated by the police. So it would make sense that underneath her "perfection" she would be the kind of person who could drug someone without any remorse just to get what she wants.
But the fact that when Rachel happily admits to Chloe that she just drugged Victoria, the game just immediately forgets about it as if it never happened, and Chloe or all the other characters don´t react in any way, really makes that scene poorly written.
Seriously, I DON'T GET why Life is Strange will get ported to Switch.
It is/was popular. The game was to Dontnod what Skyrim is to Bethesda.
@@demon2441 And even then, people didn't even ask for it on Switch, still.
Because A lot of people like the first game.
@@calamaria9221 "A lot"
@@ChiefMedicPururu What people didn't ask, not that I like Life is Strange but the "People didn't ask" is an argument I dislike :/
To be fair, having flimsy motivations tends to be par for the course for serial killers, real and fake.
life is strange is unironically one of my favorite games. you’re still right. about everything. lol
Is it me or does that lead writer come off like he's hyping up his own farts simply because he farted through a few strips of fabric softener? Like he is trying to sound philosophical but everything about the game is the exact opposite.
Ah, just the vid I was looking for. Great work as always, Kamen! Keep it up!
One thing I've noticed is that writting a good prequel requires the same things you need to write a good filler episode in anime or anything else following behind on a story
You can't develop a character more, so you need to expand already known facts about them and their personalities to help the set development to stick, or show the middlepoint from where they started and where they end in the previous instances.
The main characters are not in any real danger, nor does the story they go through matter as in it won't affect the overall story, so you focus on creating and estabelishing new characters to relate with the old ones, since they too don't appear in the events going foward, the audience doesn't know what end they'll have so they'll be invested in their story as much as any other story as long as they are likeable and/or well written.
You can't add any plot-point or worldbuild freely as it'll clash with coming events, but you can always just look at what comes after in the timeline and work on establishing that instead, to remind people of old stuff that they might've forgotten that'll be relevant, or to lay the foundation for something that'll be introduced later.
Yeah, that’s the main reason why I felt Star Wars: Rogue One worked as a prequel while Solo didn’t. Being that the former followed entirely new characters while the latter had an already-established character from the OT as the lead.
The fact Solo focused on the established characters wasn't the reason it failed tho, it failed because it basic it's main character's development and story around a love interest everyone knew wouldn't hold, if they had focused more on her rather than Han, it'd basically be the same as Majima's story in 0, but since they focused on him instead the whole movie suffered for it.
I'm glad you were able to get the video back up again.
So Chloe is the equivalent of manic pixie dream girl but for lesbians?
25:50 Otherwise good video, but Rachel was still just a 16-18 year old high school girl who was being groomed by both Jefferson and Frank, who were both 35+ men, and in positions of power as her teacher and drug dealer in a time when she desperately tried to get out of Arcadia Bay. She even tried to get a ride from random truckers.
I know the subject of grooming is never really acknowledged or thrown in your face while playing the game which makes it more realistic as grooming in real life is hardly noticeable from an outsider standpoint... But it's still kinda worrying how so many fans, and this video included, only interpret it as Rachel cheating on Chloe. Especially since the wording of Rachel´s letter, where she tries to tell Chloe about Jefferson, suggests that Chloe and Rachel had talked about Rachel´s love life before, which has made Chloe angry, but they weren´t together anymore in LiS.
Plus, Rachel´s inspiration was Laura Palmer who was also groomed, abused and murdered. That's why all of the signs we see about Rachel in LiS are textbook grooming, and why the whole plot of LiS is about people’s refusal to see abuse.
So; Rachel´s character in BtS might be poorly written, and she might be toxic and manipulative, but there is no question she was a victim of both Frank and Jefferson.
Oh no doubt about that - although, to be fair, I wish the game would've at least shown that there was grooming going on (remember, during time, Frank barely knew Rachel at the time).
I do appreciate the time of your comment and concerns, I just wish there was more to the actual meat the games rather than just giving implications.
Although, to be clear, I'm not a huge fan of the games lol.
@@Mangakamen In BtS there is a subtle moment when Rachel and Chloe meet Frank in the junkyard. Rachel and Frank exchange looks, and Frank is clearly checking her out. So they already knew each other back then when Rachel was only 16... and Frank was probably the reason how she got into the mill.
But agreed, these games, and especially BtS, rely too much on subtlety in their writing just so everyone can interpret scenes and characters any way they want. It´d have been better if BtS explored how Rachel started her affairs with Frank and Jefferson, and why exactly she was so desperate to leave Arcadia Bay. That kind of story would have made more sense in the context of all the info we got about Rachel in LiS.... But I guess it would have been too dark for a game that was meant to be first and foremost fanservice and an easy cash grab, so instead they had to make a dumb sob story about Rachel’s mother that only parallels Rachel´s fate and has nothing to do with the events of the first game.
2:13 Ah yes
“I am NEVER WRONG and I can prove it algebraically!”
XD