Three Most Common Problems When Making Bread With Fresh Milled Flour - Avoid These Mistakes!
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
- Today I am sharing with you 3 of the most common issues that arise when working with fresh milled flour bread. I want to help you avoid these mistakes so you can create the most beautiful breads your family will love! I also share extra tips at the end! Let's hang out together, and chat! Let me know if there is anything else you may be struggling with that I didn't mention!
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You are by far the best teacher for fresh milled flour out there.
Awwww thank you so much! I am glad I can help! 😊
Agreed, Kara's tips took my bread to the level I wanted it, after months of struggling with Sue Becker's book and recipes. I also really didn't want to use "lovely Belle bakes" recipes since she uses so much vital wheat gluten, it kind of turns the loaf into a processed food. Kara is the BEST! I'm so thankful I found her.
🥰
Agreed!
Kara, you make it so simple and easy. Thank you! ♥
Awesome! I am so happy to hear that! Thanks so much!
I needed this for the past two years! I love using my fresh milled wheat berries and a flaker for rolled oats from oat groats. So grateful you took the time to share all of this wonderful info- I made all modifications for all my fav' recipes that used store-bought flour. I am excited to try them again -failed miserably many times - DENSE bread and house humid most of the year (lower Alabama) Many blessings and look forward to all of your video's
Awesome! I am so happy to hear it was helpful! Let me know how it goes! You got this! Happy Baking!
I remember one of my first loaves, I followed a recipe and it was SO wet… but I just went with it and glopped it into my bread pans… it was the BEST. Then I learned about hydration and why it worked. I love learning!
Yay! I am happy to hear that! Yes! Fresh milled flour likes higher hydration for breads! 😊
This is a great video for beginners. I needed it, and I will pass it along.
Awesome! I am so happy to hear that! Thanks!
Thank you so much! You describe exactly my issues with transitioning to fmf
Yay! I am so happy to hear it is helpful! Thanks so much!
Thanks for taking the time to explain the problems. Appreciate very much.
My pleasure! I am so happy to hear it is helpful!
I've been adding my yeast after letting my dough sit for 15 minutes like you do... I really like this method. Thanks for everything you do!🥰
It really helps! My pleasure! Thank you! 😊
I have learned so much from your channel; and I thank you for that. I knead by hand. It’s been a learning curve, but I’m getting there.
I am so happy to hear it is helpful! Kneading by hand is a labor of love. It may be helpful to lengthen the autolyze time to maybe 2 hours, then try kneading with a bench scraper and some olive oil on your work surface and hands. Those tricks seem to help a bit for hand kneading.
Excellent!!!
Thank you!
Great tips! Thanks!
Thank you so much!
Thank you for all you do!!
My pleasure! I am happy to help! Thanks so much!
So grateful for you friend! 💜
Aww Thanks! I am grateful for you too! 😊
This is soooo helpful! Thanks 🙏🏻
Yay! Thanks so much!
TY
Welcome! Thanks!
Yes very helpful, thanks
Thank you so much! I am glad to hear it!
You are awesome
Awww Thanks so much! 😊
Great video! I wish I had this info when I started! I made all these mistakes! 😂 You are the best and my go to person! ❤
Right?! I made all these mistakes too! 😂 That is how I know! 😂 I really wanted to create a channel and blog that I wish I had when I was learning! Thank you so much!
Freshly milled flour has a much higher hydration rate. It is imperative to soak the flour first. I combine all liquids first along with the salt, then add the flour until combined. Rest for 20 - 30 minutes. I save the yeast until AFTER I hydrate the flour. Once hydrated, using my stand mixer, I add the yeast and begin the kneading process. I check it at 10 - 12 minutes. More times than not, the flour has absorbed more of the water. I keep kneading. When I check at the 20 minute mark, it is pulling away from the sides but is tacky to the touch. Purrrr-fect. It should also pass the window pane test at this point. I scrape it out of the bowl onto a clean surface and roughly knead it by hand around 6 times to shape it into a ball and place it in an oiled bowl. Rest 1 hr. Shape it into loaves, place in loaf pans, and rest until it just rises above edge of loaf pan. This is when I turn my oven on to 350. By the time the oven has preheated, the loaves are about 1 - 2 inches above the loaf pans. In my oven, it takes 30 minutes to get to an internal 190 degree Fahrenheit. They will rise even higher when baking. Pull them out and remove from pans immediately. Cool on rack. We slice and freeze our bread.
Sounds like delicious bread! Thanks for sharing!
Love the tips! Our favorite bread recipe is your honey oat sandwich bread!
Thanks so much! We love that one too! 😉
Thank you, for your response. I may try that Azure
Welcome!
Thanks for your videos, they're helping me a lot as I start to use a grain mill.
Awesome! My pleasure, I am so happy to hear they are helpful! Thanks!
Just last night I did a French bread and it looked beautiful when I put in the oven but it came out flat. It tasted great now thank you for your help.
Welcome! I am happy to hear it was helpful! Thanks!
Well this info comes at a good time for me. I do have a new mixer the artiste I’ve only made a few things. I follow one other person. Besides you . We loved your cookies though I will add more flower next time , loved the buns that recipe is the best. I mastered a pizza crust I like . But I’ve not been crazy about bread . I did sour dough with all kamute followed recipe but it’s crumbly after cutting the texture is dense it’s heavy loaf! It was mentioned to soak the wheat first next time so I will. But being new I have nothing to compare with. I poked at wheat loaf at store and almost knocked off shelf it was so lite. The crows like it lol. Such
good info you gave , I just don’t know what to expect with bread ? Guess it’s gonna take time .
Today here in wine country it’s humid so wish me luck with my pizza today.
Thanks
Cricket
Yay! I am so happy to help! Thanks! Let me know how it goes next time! Happy Baking!
I started using 50/50 hard white and purpose 😊
That is a great way to start! Especially if you are getting your family used to it! Happy Baking!
Just remember you are cutting the nutritional value by using store bought bagged flour.
Thank you for your videos, good information. I'm one of those old experienced bread bakers and just getting into FMG. I bought an old used K - tec Kitchen Mill that was made by Blendtec years ago. I thought I would try it out before upgrading to a more expensive stone grind mill. Do you know about this mill and if you do, what do you think? Also thinking about getting the Nutri Mill bread mixer & saving my KA for cake (saw your video on that mixer). Looking forward to watching and learning from you. 😊
PS...also I'm at altitude & super dry, but I have learned what it takes to make good bread in my climate. Wet dough is my friend.
I am so happy to hear this is helpful. I have not used that mill, so I am not sure. You could try asking others in my Facebook group (if you have Facebook) facebook.com/groups/782667429899138/
There are over 23K people in my fresh milled flour group, I will bet someone has used it before.
Yes, I agree wet dough is the way to go! I am happy to hear you got that down! Thanks so much! Happy Baking!
Getting the gluten to develop in my hard white wheat bread flour
It takes time for the gluten to develop, if you use these tips of a wetter dough, and longer kneading that should do the trick. If you try all of these tricks, and there is still no gluten development, then maybe ask the wheat seller to verify it is all hard wheat and not a mix, or you can add a bit of vital wheat gluten to it, but this is typically my last resort. I hope that helps! Happy Baking!
I’ve been watching your videos on CZcams for a while. I’m very interested to know if you go by hydration levels when you bake. I try to use a hydration in my recipe when I figuring out what I wanna make the current hydration I use is about 75% hydration, I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject. Thank you very much for the great videos
It depends on the recipe, for sourdough, yes I go by hydration, and I like to use a higher hydration with fresh milled flour 80-85%, just because hard wheat is so thirsty, and it absorbs the liquid so much slower than white flour. For yeast breads I do like to use a wetter dough as well. Thanks!
The recipe I’ve been using calls for 9 minutes kneading- but I can see now that I need a much longer kneading time. ( I have a kitchen aid mixer)
Yes, most likely longer kneading in that situation will give you softer results. Let me know how it goes! Happy Baking!
First, THANK YOU!!! I'm new to milling grain and hopefully will make my first recipe tomorrow. You have prepared me so well, I feel like. Thank you so much!!!
I have learned that with the store bought flour, if I accidentally over rise it, kneed it for a few minutes and let it rise for another 30 min or so, and that has worked for me. Is it the same with fresh milled flour?
Thank you so much! I am so happy to help! To a point you can save over proofed dough on the first rise. Same way you described. Sometimes it is too far gone, and the texture will be a bit more dense. The second rise, you can knead and shape, and go for a third rise, but again it may be a bit dense, and may not rise quite as high. I hope that helps! I am excited for you! Have fun, and enjoy the journey! Happy Baking!
Hello
I’ve been recently watching your videos on freshly milled flours and baking. I’ve even downloaded some of your recipes also. Here’s my quandary. I’ve been baking for several years with store bought flour and have decent results. What I’m looking for is what are the Huge Differences between freshly milled flour and regular bread and other store brands. Is it taste, texture, or what are the benefits of the costs involved to start milling your own flour. One last question, what would you say would be the best, easiest and cheapest method to start milling flour myself.
Thanks for your advice !
Joe R
Hi! I am glad you found me! The difference is all of the above! lol. The taste, texture, but mostly, the health benefits. It is not always cheaper than white flour, especially if comparing the least expensive flour at the grocery store. But, the health benefits and how it improves your gut, and makes you feel better when you eat it, is a game changer. I share some storis about this from close family and friends, and all about getting started in this video. czcams.com/video/r7Lcdfbgio4/video.htmlsi=dxZq2dD0MPiBRQC4
The cheapest stand alone mill that I know of is the Nutrimill Classic, I have a coupon code to save $20 if interested it is: Grainy here is that link to checkout that mill. collabs.shop/rkbfy0
I hope that helps!
Do you have a recipe for cream puffs?
Yes! I do, here is the video for those. czcams.com/video/pEE9eVGvqbM/video.htmlsi=tDbHLWvznai7DkLr
Hey sunshine- The add in of any other grain is 35%. So, if you have a recipe that calls for 500G of wheat, you can put 175 G of something else- Einkron, Spelt, Kamut..etc. But, 35% is MAX! Recipe would be 175G- choice grain= 325 G Hard white or wheat. 😊
Hi, thanks for your tip. For beginners working with fresh milled flour, I like to say about 20% ancient grains, and 80% hard wheat. But, yes, that can be a little higher if you are used to working with fresh milled flour. Happy Baking!
Remember KAMUT has a strong gluten or that’s what I’ve read and experienced
I am looking forward to learning to bake with fresh milled flour. I am trying to find the Nutrimill but it's sold out everywhere. Do these sell out and restock regularly? Do I just keep an eye on the website or are they coming out with a new one? These questions may be way out of your wheelhouse, but I thought I'd ask. Thank you for the awesome tutorials!! (I'm ready to buy an Ankarsrum, too!!)
Thank you so much! They have been going in and out of stock quite a bit since last November. You can click on the mill you are interested in, and they will notify you when they are in stock again. I also try to update when they come back in stock on my Facebook page as well. facebook.com/GrainsInSmallPlaces/
Very helpful! I do have a question about leaving out the yeast at first. Yeast needs a warm temperature to work. During autolyse, doesn’t the dough cool down? How does the yeast get activated then? Thank you.
Thank you! The yeast will still activate even if it is cool water, it will just rise slower. But, most of my recipes call for warming the water, and once the dough is covered, I find the dough is still a but warm. But, even on those days I do a long autolyze, the dough is room temperature, and the yeast activates just fine. I hope that helps! Happy Baking! 😊
If I use hot water and freshly milled flour, which comes out of the mill warm, my dough is still warm after a 20 minute autolyse in my mixer bowl.
Excellent video, thank you Kara. You make the experience of using FMF a bit less scary 😊. So here is my dilemma. I have a no fail sourdough bread recipe that I have been using for over a year now. I got it from another amazing lady who also has a CZcams channel. The recipe uses store bought flour, and I’ve been trying to switch over to 100% FMF with little success. Through trial and error and plenty of reading, I’ve been learning a few things, but I’ve yet to transition fully as of yet. I’ve read that using FMF will differ in measurements from the store bought flour. I’ve tried to use your guidance on how to “make” AP flour and
Bread flour but I know I’m still doing it wrong, so any guidance you can provide would be much appreciated. Here is what the recipe calls for: 500g AP, 250g Bread flour, 200g WW flour, 200g sourdough, 20g salt, and 650g water. I have a wide variety of wheat berries including ancient grains because I want to experiment with different flavor profiles, but I’m not sure what to use for each one and how much to use. Thank you. Btw, this makes two loaves.
Thank you! It depends on what problem you are having. Some key differences are that generally you need a higher hydration dough with fresh milled flour, you need mostly hard wheat (80% or more hard wheat) red or white hard wheat is fine. The other major difference is that is ferments so much faster. An overnight ferment will often times over proof and over ferment your bread loaf. I have a sourdough boule recipe you can try, but the methods are a bit different. It took me years to get it right with fresh milled flour. Let me know if you give this one a try how it goes. Happy Baking! grainsinsmallplaces.net/sourdough-fresh-milled-flour-easy/
Thank you for responding so quickly. So the issue has been that it comes out a bit more dense than I would like. I realize FMF will produce a more dense loaf than store bought but I think my problem is that I don’t know how to convert
Properly yet. For example, if the recipe is calling for 500g of AP, I’m using 500g of FMF (using your recipe of 43g hard white/37g soft white/40g Kamut per cup)then I mill up equal amounts of hard white and hard red to make 250g of bread flour and mix some rye and hard red to make 200g of WW. I think my milled amount is too much since FMF is heavier, but not sure how much to reduce it by. I will try your recipe thank you, but I feel that the sourdough is too little. My son has stomach issues with regular bread but since I’ve been making sourdough bread, he hasn’t had any problems. The miracle of fermented bread I guess 😂
My problem is my dough may look wet, then I knead thinking the bran will absorb the water. End result is the dough is to wet, then I add more flower. Great hints ! Thank you.
You do want it to be pretty wet, if you have time, take a look at my Focaccia video, I show what the dough looks like at different stages of the kneading process. Here is that video: czcams.com/video/3nDorxqEgaU/video.htmlsi=uXTDC3ATROdHl8kT
I even make a no-knead focaccia and you can do a stretch and fold every 30 min 2-3 times, and then I usually leave it overnight in the fridge. Without any kneading it really shows how gluten can develop with just time!!! It’s so cool!
Also, how do you feel about using vital wheat, gluten, and soy lecithin with your recipes
I generally feel that I don't need to add them, I get wonderfully soft and squishy loaves using these methods in the video. But, if the wheat is weak in protein, and won't form gluten well some people may want to use them. 😊
This might not be possible but could you make a video comparing mixing/kneading dough to windowpane stage and how the dough should look from beginning to end in your different mixers? I have a KA and really struggle on getting my fmf to windowpane. It tears or I end up adding too much water cause it seems too wet. And, the mixer starts getting really hot especially as I grind the wheat and then knead the dough in it. Thanks for all the great tips and recipes!
I used to use my kitchen aid as well, and noticed it getting hot. I ended up damaging it over time, that is why I now have the other mixers, it still works, but only when it wants to and only on whatever speed it decides, 😂. So it works great for the front attachments. If using the kitchen aid mill, that does mill grains a bit more coarse, and that can make it difficult to knead to a windowpane, because the coarser grains kind of tear through the gluten strands. You can try a much longer autolyze period, that may help soften it. I believe Kitchen recommends to only knead for a couple minutes, then do a rest period for it. So, you could try that longer autolyze (maybe 2 hours) then, knead for a few minutes, then let it rest covered again, then knead again. I hope that helps! Let me know how it goes! Happy Baking!
@@GrainsInSmallPlaces helps very much and yes I do believe it’s a coarser grind. Stone ground mill on my Christmas wish list! Thanks so much for the tips!
Where do you get your hard white wheat from?
I get it from different places, most recently, I purchased it from Azure Standard, before that I used some I got from a local Amish store near my family in Ohio. I have purchased from Bread Beckers, Winco, Amazon, and a few other places as well.
This is where I bought the most recent hard white wheat I have been using.
At Azure Standard: www.azurestandard.com/?a_aid=7df0fb364f
Should you score the yeast bread dough before baking?
I do, but only because it's pretty. If I don't, they still turn out about the same. The dough cracks on it's own as it cooks.
That is a preference thing, you can if you like that look, it sometimes helps keep it from splitting on the side. But, it is not necessary, I generally don't, but sometimes I do. 😊
I am new to milling and bread baking in general. I have made 4 loaves in the past week using Sue Becker’s basic loaf recipe, minus the lecithin, which I have since ordered. All 4 have fallen once I put the in the oven and didn’t rise very good to begin with. I have a Kitchenaid mixer and I am thinking I need a different mixer. I also think I’m not kneading it enough as I am afraid of over kneading and ruining my dough. I’ve only been kneading it about 7 or 8 minutes and in this video, you had mentioned 15-20. I would appreciate any advice on what you think I’m doing wrong. Thank you for making such wonderful, informative videos. 🍞 ❤
***Update to my comment. Watching some of your other videos and realized that I have NOT been using instant yeast, just regular active yeast and have NOT been blooming it, just adding in so that MAY be my problem. I will make another loaf this week and let you know. To be continued….
Yay! I am so happy to hear they were helpful! It sounds like you did a great job troubleshooting. Let me know how it goes this time! Happy Baking!
*Update: Baked 2 more loaves today & actually proofed my yeast this time and they rose and turned out perfectly! I’m so happy. I was really getting discouraged. Now ready to try some of your other wonderful looking recipes. ☺️
Yay! That is wonderful! Nice job! 👏
Any tips on adjusting a Mockmill 200? Mine is doing the clicking sound but the flour comes out grainy. I now mill on coarse setting first and then remill on finest setting. Finally I got a good loaf of sandwich bread.
Hmmm, if it is adjusted to all the way fine, and still coming out coarse, I might suggest you contact Mockmill (or where you purchased it from). I would think it should be milling fine. Or you could try running a full 2 cups of dry rice through it and see if that helps.
Thank you, I’ll try that and if that still doesn’t work I’ll call them.
My question is, have you ever sprouted your berries? I sprout, then dehydrate it, then grind for my bread. I still get a dense loaf. Just wondering if you ever have tried it
I have not tried sprouting my wheat, so I don't have a lot of info on that, but I would assume it should still be very similar, and these tricks should still work.
How can I convert a regular store bought flour recipe, to a fresh ground wheat berry recipe? I’m thinking more in the wet, or less flour?
There are a lot of factors to consider, like what you are making, what wheat you are using. I have a video on a AP flour blend that does a nice job for most recipes, but not breads. Here is a link to that video it may help. czcams.com/video/ZfljrcQ1svQ/video.htmlsi=M-_lQKn6u4l2bUli
how long do I knead by hand since I don't have a mixer?
Working with Fresh Milled Flour requires a bit more of a wet and sticky dough, I won't say it is impossible, but it would be a labor of love to do. If you have a bread machine you could try using that to knead the dough, it may take 2 kneading cycles. But, if you have to do it by hand, I would recommend you let it sit at the soaking stage (autolyze) for a bit longer. Also, try using oil on your hands and counter so it doesn't stick as badly. I would recommend a bench scraper to use as well. I hope that helps! Happy Baking!
I am having repeated issues with crumby bread loaves that fall apart in the middle when cutting them. I’ve tried Sue Becker Basic Dough recipe many many times mostly with Hard White Wheat but also HWW with spelt, and HWW and Red Hard Wheat. If this (too crumby) was happening to you consistently, how would you try to fix it? Different blends of wheat? More flour? Less flour? More kneading? Less kneading? I using an Ankarsrum mixer. Any insights would be greatly appreciated!!!
Hi! There are 3 common problems that can cause crumbly bread, the first is too much flour! The dough should be a bit wetter than most think. Second is not enough kneading, and third is overbaking. You can use a digital thermometer to check the center of the loaf, for yeast bread you are looking for 190*F-200*F. I have a video using my Ankarsrum mixer, and I am making focaccia, but I go over lots of tricks, and I show you how the dough should look at all the stages of kneading. You can use these methods with any yeast bread recipe. I hope that helps! Happy Baking! czcams.com/video/3nDorxqEgaU/video.htmlsi=PzvnS4KwmICOX_jn
@@GrainsInSmallPlaces SO HELPFUL! I am going to watch that video again., I have watched prior but I definitely need a rewatch. Thank you so much!!!
My pleasure!
Do these tips apply to sourdough?
Many of them do apply to sourdough as well, especially if making a soft sourdough sandwich. I do have some tips working with sourdough as well, if you scroll towards the bottom, there is a sourdough tips area. grainsinsmallplaces.net/gisp-method/
I knead by hand a 75% hard red wheat and 25% soft white wheat with the slap and fold technique, and it takes me like 40-50 minutes to achieve the right elasticity. Is there a better kneading method (that’s by hand), that would shorten my time? I really enjoy kneading by hand, but it’s a long time commitment currently.
Kneading by hand is a labor of love. It may be helpful to lengthen the autolyze time to maybe 2 hours, then try kneading with a bench scraper and some olive oil on your work surface and hands. Those tricks seem to help a bit for hand kneading.
@@GrainsInSmallPlaces It is! But I really decompress during that time with a podcast or prayer, so it’s something I do enjoy an evening a week after I put my kiddos to bed. I haveThank you so much. I will add olive oil to the work surface then. I have been doing a cold bulk ferment after kneading, and I’m wondering if it’s over proofing my loaf. Thinking about what you said, and I’m going to tweak some things! Appreciate your channel.
I am transitioning to whole wheat....do you have a good 50/50 recipe ?? I am thinking to start there and just gradually add more wheat and less white. TIA
You could try 50% hard wheat flour and 50% bread flour, I would recommend going by weight. Let me know how it goes! Happy Baking!
i am sorry I should explain that i mean 50 whole wheat and 50 white flour til we adjust.
Try hard white wheat it works with a lot of people who find changing over to fresh milled. I’d use hard white and KAMUT for its color and flavor Us? We just dove in head first took all bagged flour out of home refused to allow back in wanted no crutch want to insure I learned
I am still new to fresh milled flour and I have yet to reach that "window pane". However, I do NOT have an auto kneaded but I knead by hand. Can you give me some tips?
Hand kneading is a labor of love with fresh milled flour. One suggestion is to extend the autolyze time to 2 hours, and let time help develop the gluten. The other suggestion is to use a bench scraper to help and some olive oil rather than flour. I hope that helps!
@@GrainsInSmallPlaces thank you I will give that a try
Welcome! Let me know how it goes! 😊
Hiiiiii 🍪🍩🎂
Hi!
Hi, I noticed, your wheat berries come from Palouse and Country Life. There seems to be a big difference in price, Palouse is $17.95 for 5lbs., Country Life is 10lbs. for the same amount. What is the difference. This is for hard white wheat berries.
Sometimes the cost differences can be all in the shipping. My most recent wheat berries have come from Azure standard for the last few months. I really like the quality and price as well. Azure Standard: www.azurestandard.com/?a_aid=7df0fb364f