The Night of the Wolf EXPLAINED By An Australian | Warhammer 40k Lore
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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The first recorded Astartes vs Astartes battle was decades before the Horus Heresy, it was the Night of the Wolf!
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I'll have to give this one to Angron, purely because Russ has no concept of manscaping
Don't be Russ, get 20% Off and Free Shipping on all Manscaped Products here : manscaped.com/majorkill
Please make a BattleTech video !!!!!
Now we understand why Horus lost with his bald ass he couldn’t understand the concept of manscaping this dooming him to a defeat against the emperor clean shave
Your next piece of merchandise should be BJJ gi
Win a 1v8 in ultimate apocalypse
Day 8 of requesting to make a video on Cato Sicarius 🙂
‘He howled?’ asked Lorgar. His eyes were wide, pearly with soft wonder.
‘The call to retreat,’ Angron replied. ‘A fighting retreat - it took longer than you can imagine for the World Eaters to realise the battle was over. I had whole companies still trying to fight the Wolves as Russ’s Legion ran for their gunships.’ He chuckled. ‘They took a lot of trophies for their tallies. Many wear them still.’
For several moments, Lorgar had to watch his brother’s flawed face to make sure this wasn’t some elaborate jest.
‘You didn’t answer Russ’s question,’ he said. ‘Did you truly learn nothing from that fight?’
Angron blinked, the dull edge of surprise coming into his eyes. ‘What revelation should I have come to? I learned he wasn’t allowed to kill me. I learned he postured in the hope of bringing me back to Terra, collared and submissive to his whims.’
‘No.’ Lorgar was almost breathless in disbelief. ‘No, no, no. Angron, you stubborn fool. None of that matters.’
‘There were more dead Wolves on that field than dead World Eaters. That matters.’
That, thought Lorgar, was also arguable, but he let it pass. ‘Russ had you cold. You said you had him at your mercy, but he crawled free.’
‘He crawled.’ Angron chuckled again, making a meal of the word.
‘And when he rose, he had you surrounded. He could have killed you.’
‘He tried and failed.’
‘His men, Angron. His Legion could have killed you. Whether the Emperor ordered it or not, Russ spared your life. He didn’t retreat in shame, you arrogant…’ Lorgar sighed. ‘He was probably lamenting your thick skull all the way back to Terra, hoping you’d heed a rather consummate lesson in brotherhood and loyalty. Look what happened. Yes, you beat him in a duel. Yes, your men took down more of his than his of yours. And yet, who won the battle?’
‘The World Eaters,’ Angron said without hesitation.
Lorgar just stared at him for several seconds. ‘I appreciate that every living being must, by the nature of perception, understand and process life in a different way. But even for you, brother, this is achingly obtuse.’
‘You’re saying the Wolves won.’ Angron looked more amused than confused.
‘How can you not see it?’ Lorgar steepled his fingers, trying to rein in his own temper. ‘They won a victory worthy of engraving on their armour for all time. While you were glorying in your strength, Russ’s sons were loyal enough to come to him, to surround you both, to threaten your life while you stood at the vanguard of your own Legion. That may be the most comprehensive moment of outmaneuvering in the history of the Legiones Astartes. It’s almost poetic in its elegance and emotional resonance. He proves his sons’ loyalty, while yours leave you to die. He proves the damage the Nails are doing to your Legion. He proves the tactical strength of taking an objective rather than fighting purely to kill. He spares your life in the hope you’ll see all of this, in a lesson it cost him heavily to teach you, and your reaction is to grin and claim yourself the victor.’
Angron didn’t chuckle that time. Lorgar could see it in his brother’s tensed muscles - some cognitive switch had clicked somewhere in his consciousness, and Angron’s rage was rising again.
‘Only one of us ran away that night. He’s weak.’
‘Gods’ blood.’ Lorgar was still managing, barely, to speak calmly. ‘The primarchs are the bridge between the Emperor and the species he leads. We are all weak, for we are all equal. All of us. We are humanity magnified: its virtues and its flaws.’
‘I am not weak. I have never been weak.’
‘You are not only weak if you fail to understand Russ’s lesson, you are also a fool.’
Source: Betrayer
Edit: Lorgar did nothing wrong.
One of the most amazing passages for sure!
One of the few damn times Lorgar made some fucking sense.
@@treyalexander5048all erebus fault
This is a really nice and fitting excerpt, thank you for commenting this ❤
While I can see the point Lorgar fails to realise that Angron would count being killed as a win and Russ clearly wasn't able to achieve his objective if Angron even later still did not learn this lesson.
Getting a video about each of the pre heresy primarchs getting put in Guillimans situation in the current imperium and seeing how they react and rule would be pretty cool ngl
I might be wrong, but I think there is such a video on the channel already.
@@bogdanlevi nope, this video has been requested for a looooong time
@@Yumao420 since September 😴
Angron with and without butchers nails would be cool
@@Yumao420 ok, that's probably why I get those false memories.
Never understood why Big E didn’t just teleport some of Angrons friends to turn into astartes like some of the other primarchs. Would have saved him alot of trouble, or idk just kill the army surrounding Angrons forces.
This whole section of time makes absolutely no sense unless E’s whole goal was to make sure Angron turned.
The lore regarding Angron's fall is one of the weaker aspects of Warhammer 40,000. I am not an expert on all the retcons, but my understanding is that the various Primarchs had their backstories imagined as bits of lore that weren't always that well planned.
The result is that you get a situation similar to the background lore of the Star Wars sequels that JJ Abrams set up (and couldn't be bothered to explain). The background lore is stupid, and actual stories need to be written around it, even though it makes characters look stupid.
Really, Angron and Peturabo both needed a revamp. The Emperor looks stupid for keeping them around. Angron is a loose cannon, and Perturabo is, depending on who is writing him, a violent ill-tempered man child. And when writers try to make Perturabo sympathetic, it runs into the issue that there are still many moments where the only motivation he had for his acts of villainy is that he's a petty jerk. He doesn't even have a backstory to explain why he became so evil.
Yeah... Angron was by far the most hateful and resentful of the Emperor of all the Primarchs. Even Horus. The GOD TIER irony of this however is that if the Emperor had either:
A) Teleported Angron's own army up to the ship or
B) Teleported himself and a contingent of Custodes down to fight beside Angron and help them win the battle
It would have ended in Angron being probably the most fanatically loyal Primarch out of all of them.
People don't seem to understand just how much just how much Angron values loyalty and camaraderie. If anyone he is truly loyal to was ever in danger, Angron would die for them without hesitation. In fact, he would rather die alongside people he cares for than live to see them dead. Even when Angron was teleported up to the Emperor's ship, he BEGGED his father, (just think about that for a moment... ANGRON of all people BEGGED - that's how much he loved them) for the Emperor, to save his family and the Emperor basically said no and then put him in timeout while everyone he'd even known and loved were all massacred and butchered - all the while believing he had abandoned them in their moment of greatest need.
If the Emperor had saved them instead, he'd have earned Angron's eternal gratitude.If the Emperor had teleported down himself with a group of Custodes (or better yet, a force of Angron's own War Hounds) and actually fought WITH Angron, he'd have not only earned Angron's eternal gratitude, but his respect as well. After all, the one thing Angron respects almost as much as true loyalty is martial prowess. Seeing such insane martial prowess from the Emperor and his Custodes/Astartes the comaraderie that would have been built between him, his father and their respective troops AND the fact that these actions would have guaranteed the survival of at least a good portion of Angron's family, would have resulted in Angron becoming - Butcher's Nails or not - THE most loyal Primarch out of any of them. He would NEVER forget it. So much so in fact that I'd be willing to bet Horus wouldn't have even bothered trying to turn Angron in the first place. If he did, I wouldn't be surprised if Angron killed him on the spot for even suggesting it.
@@dragonstormx+
The Emperor's handling of Angron when he was first found is what ended up turning Angron against him. If he'd done right by his son when they first met and say... teleported down to the planet with a contingent of Custodes or, better yet, Angron's own War Hounds in tow and they'd all fought together to defeat the Techno Barbarians and saved Angron's family, the Emperor would have gained a some more loyal than any other while simultaneously forging a bond between Angron and his own sons through mutual respect in battle.
"unless E’s whole goal was to make sure Angron turned"
It was. The Emperor had planned for Angron to fill a fundamentally different niche in war and peace than the butchers nails made him do, as shown by Angrons natural ability to take away others fear and pain, he was likely intended to be the pinnacle of a combat medic and diplomat. When the Emperor found him the nails had made him essentially just a worse version of Leman Russ as well as a perfect candidate for Khorne worship. As the emperor knew he had promised half the primarchs to chaos/treason no matter what, letting a failed, dying primarch turn traitor was seen by him as an acceptable loss, especially in comparison to letting Khorne take the primarch he actually wanted - Sanguinius. Alternatively you can read it as the Emperor knowing the nails were killing him, so decided to just use him as a weapon rather than a general by pointing him at planets he'd rather not exist anymore for about 80 years and letting him die afterwards. Either way the Emperor is cold, cynical, asshole, but not an idiot.
@@justinanderson2460 Also, Emperor not being able to remove the Butcher's Nails without killing Angron sounds stupid. Less powerful psykers have greater feats.
An alternative I saw proposed is that Angron actually rejects the Emperor's help because he wants to die alongside his comrades. A big part of his character is that he is a failure.
The Emperor made 2 grand mistakes that over shadow all the others, Allowing Angron to spread the nails (as well as forcing him to leave his fellows to die), and not cluing Magnus in on the world Chaos God problem / webway project (not to mention baring the use of psyker powers, he should have allowed the 1k Suns to keep using them as that's their thing).
My head cannon is that the big E didn't make any mistake at all.
Everything he's done has been exactly to a plan, and that plan is starting to come to its end phase.
EVERYTHING he's done, and that has happened he wanted to happen to make him a god. So he could finally take the fight into the warp.
That's just me, though.
He did in a way “allow” them to keep using their powers until the webway disaster then he was pissed. They weren’t supposed to be practicing their powers but everyone knew they still were and nobody stopped them and the emperor never did anything about it.
One really underrated thing about Night of the Wolves is how it shows the character of Russ and the Space Wolves and how positive it is. Russ is a Barbarian King. with the Emphisis on KING, He may be a brash blunt cudgel of a Primarch, but he is possibly the most HUMAN of the Primarchs, it is easy to understand him, and hate him or admire him for his faults and successes. But it's the King aspect of him that really shines through, he lead his Legion not as a demi-god or some uncaring General, but a King who valued his men and their thoughts. If Russ fell to Angron then, they Wolves would have not faltered, they would have been driven to avenge their fallen king, and it may have taken hundreds of Space Wolves to do so, eventually the Space Wolves would have brought down Angron. That is what makes Space Wolves so great, they're the most Human Chapter, while not the most benevolent like the Salamanders, they are still Human, with all the bad and good.
I only ever read The Thousand Sons novel, but how do the other books reconcile Russ as this noble warrior when in that book it showed his Legion being bloodthirsty maniacs who massacred civilians and took trophies out of the bodies of pre-Heresy Thousand Sons that they killed?
@@remliqa which novel is that? is it horus heresy? because in the burning of prospero the sons of russ did have a hatred for the thousand sons but they were not maniacs, they were just doing what they believed was their duty. wont deny they are a bit backward when it comes to psykers though XD.
@@surviver16 I can't recall where that book (written by Graham McNeill) lies within the Horus Heresy book series , but if I'm not mistaken it was written somewhere in the 2010s. The story was told from the POV of both Thousand Son characters and the remembrancers attached to the Legion.
Waiting for the space wolves hate
@@remliqa so in prosphero bruns, we actually get a scene where Russ has who he believes is an implanted psyker spy by the thousand sons on his bridge, the guy was being manipulated by a demon but this is before anyone knew about demons really, but he begs for magnus not to make him do it, to surrender because despite it all magnus is his brother, that he would avoid killing his world if he could.
*thumbnail*
Leman Russ: "Immediate Restraining Order!"
Angron: "Restraint isn't part of my vocabulary."
"There is no Winner only losers" should be the motto for warhammer
I respect Leman’s choice to actually fucking do something about the Butcher’s Nails unlike everyone else. It’s just that he wasn’t the best man for convincing Angron, then again nobody besides The Emperor and maybe Sanguinius probably could’ve done it without killing him or being forced to call off their siege.
I honestly think Vulkan or Magnus would have made a better result, Vulkan by the virtue of being the closest thing to an empath left among the Primarchs and Magnus because he can effectively see other people's souls, see the pain in Angron and maybe offer help. I guess the only mistake Angron himself was to blame for was that he never searched for a way to Safe himself from the nails, even if the emperor couldn't remove them (wich I think is a lie) he never told Angron. So what would stop him from asking Puerturabo, Ferrus or Vulkan, the Primarchs that could understand dark age of technology tech, for help.
It was a stupid idea and he paid the price for it angron is a hammer he was needed as a hammer
And it was hypocrisy incarnate from russ to say that as he kept hidding the wulfen curse
@@jongleske7392 emperor of mankind show ir was impossible
Also the true irony is sane angron was the empath who could have saved mad angron and taken his pain away
@@dumbidea1007 how was trying to convince a reckless moron to stop being a reckless moron a stupid idea?
@@dumbidea1007 ironic, he could safe others from PTSD but not himself
"Nothing about the lost legions is concrete"
In the end it turns out they're just kept in stasis beneath the pallace for the real endgame... Just as planned!
Yup Majorkill just read Betrayer. It's so interesting how he's going through the whole HH series book by book.
All spaceship classes next would be pretty cool ❤
Yes!!
I can get behind that idea
N o
This would be cool honestly
W idea
Lorgar: “You lost.”
Angron: “Nuh UHHH!”
Lorgar: “You’re playing checkers when the game is chess. And you’re taking pieces AFTER the game ended.”
Angron: “So…I still totally won…cuz I got more pieces!”
Lorgar: “…yes…you’re such a smart boy! Let’s go get snacks!”
I'm glad to see Majorkill covering this. Its a great story. While I generally agree that a lot of people basically lost here, if I had to choose one, I'd say Angron won. For a few reasons. Ultimately, Russ lost the physical engagement. The fight ended with Russ crawling away from Angron, spitting up blood after just having Angron's boot literally on his throat. That's a loss. If Angron was genuinely intent on killing his brother, he could have in that moment.
A lot of people claim Russ was holding back but this isn't true. Nowhere in the actual story is this explained or even hinted at and in fact, it's made quite clear that both brothers were very intent of beating the shit out of the other and winning. It also doesn't make sense if you actually have any real understanding of their characters.
Angron respects martial prowess more than anything. If Russ had managed to beat him and sit Angron on his arse instead, Angron would absolutely be more inclined to listen to Russ. THAT would have PROVED Russ to be correct in a way Angron would understand. It would also result in Angron respecting Russ a lot more - which in turn would only help any future interactions between them and again, made Angron far more likely to listen to Russ.
Moreover, Russ isn't stupid. Far from it. He is very much aware of the nature of his brothers and while he may have underestimated how far gone Angron was at this point, he absolutely would know that beating Angron down would give him a unique opportunity to actually get through to his brother (again) in a way Angron would both understand and respect. Moreover, Russ' rage is almost as legendary as Angron's and his loyalty to the Emperor is unquestionable. Angron smack talking Daddy Emperor and then going as far as threatening to "take the slaving bastard's head" was more than enough to enrage Russ. Leman has shown that, even in a rage, he is capable of witholding a killing blow once he has defeated his enemy but he's also shown that once enraged, Russ will go full ham on ANYONE right up until they reach some kind of impasse stalemate or conclusion. Russ seems to need that momentary break to re-gather himself and get his rage in check. That only happened here after Angron had him beaten. So the idea that Russ randomly held back against Angron just isn't supported at all by the lore or even the story itself and in actuality, what info we do have contradicts it.
When it comes to the battle of the Legions, Angron's World Eaters won that too. Granted, if it was a proper pitched battle and not just a massive brawl, the Wolves would have quite possibly won due to superior teamwork and tactics. However, in this scenario, its also made clear that the World Eaters were killing more Space Wolves than vice versa. Angron himself pointed out to Russ that while Russ' Wolves had indeed managed to get Angron surrounded, even if Angron was killed, his World Eaters would go on to slaughter the Wolves Legion aside from Russ himself (obviously) even without their Primarch - and in the end Russ would still have "lost" since all or at least the vast majority of his sons would be dead. I see no reason not to believe Angron here and Russ ordering a retreat may not PROVE this - as Majorkill pointed out, Russ was never there to kill his brother to begin with - but it does support the idea depending on your interpretation.
Then we have the "moral" victory. Who was "right". Well... both of them. Angron was spitting a lot of fire in this encounter and ALL of it was fact. Hard truths to be sure, but truths none the less. However, none of that changes the fact that Leman was also right about Angron and his Legion. His point was that Angron's behaviour and the Butchers Nails in general were ruining the World ability to be tactical and were actually making them LESS effective overall. If he'd managed to defeat Angron in combat, it would have supported this point. However, Leman Russ losing the fight didn't actually matter in the end because Leman was able to still turn the situation to his favour and make the same point a different way. Angron would never have been able to do that. In any case, Leman's point became that you don't have to be the martially strongest in order to win. If fact, sometimes even if youre stronger and "win the battle", you can still lose overall. If anything, this should have been enough to make Angron see Russ' point but unfortunately, Angron doesn't think like that and he dismissed Leman's words as him trying to cover his arse after losing the fight. This is where Leman's idea that he won came from. Once their personal fight was over, even though Angron won that fight, Leman still could have had Angron killed specifically due to the reasoning he was trying to get Angron to understand.
This is why even Lorgar was amazed that Angron learned nothing from the experience. Angron may have won the fight but he should have also been able to learn a rather obvious lesson. However, Angron's attitude of winning the fight being all that matters and his generally nihilistic attitude ensured that all he saw was Russ barking about shit to try and save face.
This is where the respect thing comes in. Angron beating Russ in their personal engagement likely resulted in him not respecting Leman enough to listen to his words. That was (in Angron's mind) somone who just lost a fight telling the winner of said fight that they are doing it wrong and how they need to change and do it differently. Its almost laughable when you really think about it that way and it makes it a lot more understandable why Angron reacted by simply dismissing Leman's words as the yapping of a dog.
Overall, Angron and the World Eaters won their respective battles but were completely unable to comprehend how they could have lost overall despite this. Leman for his part, realising he couldn't get through to his brother, chose to retreat and give up on the notion (likely with no small degree of sadness).
Waaayyyy tooo long to have made so many bad arguments.
As a Wolves player, the "cheeky doggystyle" line made me laugh my ass off. I had to go back several times 😂😂
Never change majorkill
A video on malcadors relationship with each primarch would be cool
He was very close to Russ
Dude Shouldve killed Horus When He Had The Chance.
Russ and Alpharius number 1 were both very close to him
@@slayer6498Malcador couldn't kill Horus.
The amount of power he was expending to just be able to choke Horus nearly broke him.
If at any stage Horus called Malcador's bluff he could have broken his choke hold and killed him.
Essentially didn't like most of them except Dorn, Khan and Sanguinius.
He thought The Lion and The Khan would betray The Emperor.
Honestly, I legit think that Russ lost the night of the wolf. He sacrificed loyal soldiers to teach a lesson to someone who wasn't listening.
I really love this scene in Betrayer. It does a great job of humanising Angron and explaining why he feels the way he does. That being that at first he was stolen by the powers of chaos and forced to become a Gladiator. He then finally gets his freedom and wants nothing more than to die a free man with his brothers. The Emporer clearly doesn't see it that way and treats Angron like property, thus reinforcing Angrons view of himself as a slave, and he is then forced by the emporer to run a legion. Angron clearly doesn't see himself as anything other than the property of the emporer and says he only takes pleasure from killing. I personally think that he also takes pleasure by doing what the emporer has forced him to do, but in a bastardised way. He's proud of how his legion conducts war and I think Russ turning up to point out how he think's Angrons conduct is wrong just plays into Angrons hands. Angron feels powerless, a slave, so he subtly rebels against the emporer by doing what he's forced to do, but in such a way that it's suboptimal.
I *have* to ask... Do you (and people in general) write "Emperor" wrong on purpose? Or you write "Emporer" unironically, because you can't spell even if your life depended on it?
I know people call Guilliman names as a joke, on purpose, but I can't figure out if the "Emporer" thing is like that, or simply ignorance... like "defiantly" (a certainly *defiant* attempt at writing "definitely")
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0 Pal, it’s a typo.
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0 Man misspelled one word and you're having a breakdown over here...
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0 Ummm no I'm just dyslexic and don't bother to proof read my comments on YT. I also swap capitalization randomly, mispelt bastardized and used apostrophes wrong at least once.
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0 I have to ask, do you use the adjective “wrong” instead of “wrongly” on purpose or is that just for meme purposes?
Can we get one of those primarch character deep dives on corvus corax?
Yeah I agree, I want more about Corvus.
Imagine if Night of The Wolves was recreated in real life, world eaters vs space wolves would be dope to witness
Your everywhere!
It's a bot
@@The-US-Government yo bro I heard your pretty smart and knowledgeable. If so then tell me what was the name HP Lovecraft's cat.
One thing to add, Angron was the one who basically caused the Istvan 3 battle to happen. The other traitors were seemingly content with nuking it from orbit to kill the survivors of the virus bombs (or even just leaving them alone), but then Angron just Leeroy'd in there.
On one hand, this caused quite a few extra traitor casualties, on the other this kept Lucius in the setting...
He didn't want his sons dying inglorious deaths via orbital bombardment, he wanted to give them battle, so that they could die swinging like real warriors
@@Mcbignuts Still idiotic though.
I don’t understand how a couple bolters would be killing Angron since he was armored. And Corvus ran through the Bolter fire. Like hail and rain. They just aggravated him. It didn’t hurt him in anyway. Corvus was afraid of Angron.
I would say it is a problem that Russ didn't kill Angron, as it was Angron that severely wounded Sanguinius right before he joined the assault on the Vengeful Spirit. If Sanguinius wasn't wounded so badly, he have have been able to rewrite his fate and survive the confrontation with Horus.
Common theme with Leman TBH. Failed to kill Angron , failed to kill Magnus, failed to kill Horus. For a someone called the executioner his record is a joke. He’s 1 maybe 2 out of 5 at best.
@@galaxysmp8163 Actually, it humanizes him. He could have killed THREE of the Primarchs. Noone else came close to doing that and that proves Russ as one of the strongest Primarchs. But he chose to spare them out of brotherhood. That's a human decision.
@@galaxysmp8163In fairness to Magnus, he did do a pretty good job of killing him, he just didn’t expect warp spaghetti to intervene and save him from getting his back broken.
@@Tommybotham I'd argue, that despite being the emperor's executioner, Russ cared a lot about life, and brotherhood. He'd only destroy a world if they were not compliant.
@@galaxysmp8163 To be fair even Big E had trouble finding it in him to non exist horus. Horus had a moment of clarity in front of Leman and it messed with his resolve and cost him a victory.
Magnus had some wazoo warp shit happen to save him.
I can’t remember what happened with the others.
But I have to agree, Rogal should have probably been the real executioner, dude had no chill.
Only thing you could say for Angron contribution to the crusade is definitely his brawl with the Glorious Hawk Boi. As seen in the latest book, that fight basically broke the Angel, despite his dominant performance
just got past this scene in Betrayer, so this is perfect timing
If you read the HH series in release order weekly-fortnightly, you'll probably see the references in each of his videos.
Kinda cool how “ be careful that the emperor does not sends Russ and his wolfs after you “ is a threat to other primmarch’s
*0:56*
_That one is going in to the book of Grudges!_
*~ local **-Dwarf-** Squat*
It wasn't a good idea to send Angron to his legion in the first place. What was the emperor's thinking?
Whatever the writer think of at the moment
@@Wolfbroa Yup, Too bad it, bit The emperor in the ass.
Sadly. Could have done so much with emperor like can be very flawed, but this isn't flawed. This is pure stupidity and really dials down emperor in this mega intelligent super being for me
@@Wolfbroa Agree 👍
honestly the way angron is written is a huge missed opportunity, It's clear with a lot of the HH that the plot was sort of set in stone by writing decisions made very early in 40k's history and it's also pretty clear from some of the early books that GW wasn't confident that the books would sell well enough to actually bother writing the full heresy so a lot of them are rushed. For Angron's lore it's especially bad because it wouldn't have been too hard to write it to be much more reasonable without actually changing anything and they totally could have done that if they had spent more time on it.
For starters, nuceria was close to ultramar but wasn't part of ultramar. You could explain this by saying they were technologically more advanced and that ultramar couldn't have won an full on fight with them easily and ultramar couldn't offer much in the way of diplomacy either. When the imperium arrives they aren't being practical about things the way ultramar was though and are going to fight nuceria. Nuceria has strong enough forces that they can keep angron as a slave though, so they're a decent match for the imperium's non-astatres military. They've got the sort of technological power that they did surgery to a primarch's brain and didn't kill them, which is impressive in it's own right. Add in some lore about angron being in some fights where he lost limbs and they had to give him cybernetics (a brass cyborg arm would be cool as hell and fit with his eventual korne allegiance) and it means they have things that can seriously wound primarchs. The Imperial forces call for astartes aid and at some point they realize there's a primarch on the planet so they inform the emperor.
Because Nuceria has enough tech that their fighters can seriously wound a primarch you would realistically want to throw the iron warriors or maybe the dark angels at it if possible, but those legions are too far away and with angron identified on the planet the war hounds are called there instead. This would be where the lore is largely the same, the emperor teleports angron up against his will and angron gets mad about it. This time though instead of the emperor doing it for stupid reasons he is doing it because 1) he knows the nucerians will kill angron before any imperial forces could arrive to sufficiently reinforce him, 2) From how the reunion with mortarion went angron might still dislike the emperor even if the big E and the custodes helped him and so it would be a waste of custodies lives to try, and 3) the emperor knows the nails are killing angron and wants to remove them ASAP.
From there you go back to some minor changes, angron understands why the emperor did what he did even if he isn't happy about it and after spending time with the mechanicum, malcador, and the emperor to be trained as well as to examine his cybernetics and possibly remove the nails he is willing to serve the imperium voluntarily. They can't remove the nails but they've made them less intense, drastically slowing the rate that they're killing him and making his general mental state much better. He doesn't kill his sons in a rampage or anything like that when reunited, instead he reshapes them into more honorable warriors and this improvement in the character of his legion enbgenders a lot of hope in his condition. He works with the mechanicum to develop an astartes-compatible version of the nails and it sees limited use in all legions except the thousand sons and the blood angels. The thousand sons have too many psykers to bother and the blood angels fall to the thirst way more often with it so they stop using them pretty quickly.
Eventually Angron gets exposed to some chaos artifacts at some point that infect his cybernetics and make the effect of the nails worse. This is when he goes on a rampage and starts killing his sons. Like current lore this plays out with karne being the one to get angron to stop. Any improvements in his legion that he had made are undone immediately and the side effects of the nails are becoming apparent to other legions. Leman, who feels like an older brother to the other primarchs and is brotherly to his astartes sees how fucked up the nails are from the few wolves who had them, sees how the world eaters use them so prevantly, and sees how angron's trajectory has gone downhill so he decides to try and convince angron to stop the nails. Everything after this point is exactly the same as current lore.
I think this has basically no impact on the lore as a whole but it makes motivations more sensible and makes angron's character have a bit more of an arc to it instead of being damned from the start. He starts off on a path where he's not doing good but is slowly getting better but then chaos intervenes to fuck him up. The idea of a demon primarch angron with one brass cyborg arm is awesome as well, that would be cool to see a model of. I've had this as my HC since before vashtor was a thing but with him being in the setting now I suppose you could view the brass cyborg arm as foreshadowing of korne as well as foreshadowing of angron "working" with vashtor in arks of omen. Could even say vashtor corrupted the cybernetics to aid korne or that the nucerians were worshiping him and that's why their cybernetics were so good or something of that sort if you wanted.
Do one on how big of a threat each faction is to the imperium at the current moment
The biggest change to the lore if angron had died there, would have been Roboute killing Lorgar. He had him dead to rights in their battle and only Angron's arrival stopped him from butching Lorgar.
we will get The khann vs Fulgrim I swear
Great vid Majorkill!
I just finished reading "Betrayer" and this sits nicely with me.
How powerful space marines are would be a good Continuation of that series of videos
You know one of the reasons Angron didn't care if Lemun killed him? he probably wanted it to some extent because his life was a living hell and all he was was a weapon that was slowly dying anyway.
I could have sworn I read something about the Emperor being the only one who could remove the butchers nails from Angron but it was a risky procedure.
I would like a video about the feats of various faction heroes. Like what is the strongest thing an Avatar of Khaine has actually won against. What's the best kill made by a Hive Tyrant?
"A bunch of brain nails ain't shit" -- Leman's exact thoughts
I agree with you that overall it was a big fat L for everyone. Each side thought they really had the win but it was hollow either way. Angron makes a good case for why he technically won, since Leman wasn't allowed to kill him but the biggest win for Angron would've been his death. He'd finally be with his fallen brothers and sisters, no longer be in pain, know a measure of peace, and the World Eaters that remained might've had a chance to correct their course away from damnation. Leman on the other hand was going to face a loss no matter the outcome, even winning the battle would've fucked him in the long run, so once again his own pigheadedness shot him in the foot or would've shot the Imperium in the collective foot. Either stained by the blood of his Brother and being smacked down for it and lashing out much like the guy he was trying to prove a point to or his self-righteous actions leading to one of the Loyalists turning away from the cause since they now knew how much of a unchained mad dog was among them. Doesn't matter if they went Chaos or not, either option would still probably lead to either Chaos winning the Heresey or doing a lot more damage
I just read this book yesterday and I didn’t really understand what happened when Logar called Angron a fool and that he lost the battle. Thank you for the video. It all makes sense now.
*0:56*
_That one is going in to the book of Grudges, Knife Ear lover!_
*~ local **-Dwarf-** Squat*
This could've been prevented if daddy emperor hugged his sons more
Or if daddy told his kids about drugs, and dangers of not talking to strangers.
I still hope loyalist World eaters chapters out there.
In a similar lane: how about Mephiston v Ahriman? I know you touched upon them in your Psykers vid, but a detailed look into them may be interesting xD
What if the first shot fired was from an Alpha legionnaire who infiltrated one of the legion? 😂
You're not wrong!
What do you mean "what if?"
Hydra dominatus
I still wonder about the Emperor, he is always described as such a great character with infinite wisdom and intelligence, yet he makes such idiotic decisions sometimes... i get that its for plot reasons and its more or less the writers fault but Big E really has a Track Record like a roller coaster with his actions
Angry Ronald failing to learn from the Doge Kings first attempt at teaching him angsty little brother.
i am still surprised that there is no moment where a world eater got his nails damaged or removed, at least not in the books i have read.
But heres the error about saying the Space Wolves won the ideological battle: Angron never cared. Angron saw what happened and didn't care. Not about the outcome, nor the ramifications. Any battle to the death Angron was in, he was hoping to die. He didn't care about his sons. If they all died, he was apathetic. So if Russ had carried out the kill order, Angron would have won, cause he gets what he wanted: death. The World Eaters would have won because they don't have to bear Angron anymore. And the Imperium would have won because no WE in the Heresy. Ironically, the only one that would have lost is Russ, cause he killed a brother under his own impetus.
A vid on each primarch/emperor weapon of choice and a time they used it to full effect would be cool.
I think he already did one
@@fuchsmichael93 there’s a video of the weapons the primarchs use/used, I don’t think there is one about the big e’s, although we know he has a few such as a flaming sword, a massive hammer, a huge claw or just his psyker powers
Leman Russ is the winner in a broader perspective.
I finally recently bought the night lords omnibus after watching your video about it and i have to say that my god i should of bought it earlier its been an absolute joy to read so just wanted to post this to thank you and im really looking forward to seeing what else tou recommend In the future
*Majorkill:* “Nobody- and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOBODY, can justify or rock nose hair.”
*Gol. D. Rodger twirling his “mustache”:* “Allow me to introduce myself…”
Leman Russ: (Tries to bring Angron to heel on his own initiative, so he can get the help he needs)
Also Leman Russ: (Blindly follow Horus's orders to annihilate Magnus and the Thousand Sons, despite knowing that somethings wrong)
My theory is that the Emperor’s plan was to let Angron die before reviving him in the manner that it’s implied they would have done for Farrus after he realized that the butchers nails were permanent and fatal.
This way he’d be fully restored and his natural empathy and power would shine through. Admittedly this is still bad parenting on big E’s part though.
It was like those bad animes were the Villian kidnaps the Hero but since the hero wins at the end, they just like slapfight.
You know what could have made this epic battle even better?
Some Space Dwarves Majorminies...
Yes. I. Will. Not. Stop.
Also, love your content Man, makes me smile and works better than therapy (and I attend one so I know xd)
I liked the conversation between Russ and angron in the book betrayer
Shame that Leman Russ failed at his job of being the self-proclaimed Executioner of the Man-Emperor of Mankind.
He would have put Angron out of his misery from his Butcher's Nails.
Russ was not the Executioner of the Emperor, The Wolves were the Executioners. Angron could have killed Russ, but the Wolves would have hunted him and brought him down anyway.
If Angron "loses" he just gets killed which would probably be a win for him anyway.
"He may die but thats a sacrifice I can live with."
- Emperor of mankind and best dad of the year.
aw yeah
Hear me out on this, I think the Horus Heresy would've been way more interesting if there were three de facto factions fighting; Horus and the traitor primarchs, the Imperium and the loyalists and the Renegades made up of the primarchs that would be anti-imperial though not pro-chaos. For instance, Mortarion and Perturabo. I think this would be a far more interesting set up for Angron as he would naturally oppose tyrants and slavers with his background, much more than the butcher's nails thing just making him a one note killing machine. If there were some primarchs who were on the fence such as unnailed Angron and the Khan, they could be tempted into joining against the emperor, perhaps playing off each side by aiding the imperials if Horus began winning too much and the inverse if the opposite was true.
Majorkill could you do what I’d the primarchs weren't scattered + the tyrranids come earlier?
Doesn't Horus Rising clearly state pretty early on that the emporer has the ability to remove Angron's nails?
Yes and no, he states he can remove them easily but removing them would kill Angron and not even he could save him
@@aarovit4257 nah I was wrong but so are you: False Gods Pg 380 "The implants had been grafted to angrons brain when he had been a slave centuries before, and though the technology to remove them was available, he never wanted them removed". Seems to be an inconsistency 😮
Soo, when Russ sayed: Marine vs Marine is not unpresidentet. Did he meant this or the 2/11 Legion
It has been argued since Betrayer released. Imo Demski-Bowden wrote the Night of the Wolf in Betrayer because he didn't like the whole 'Propero Burns implied that Russ and the Wolves were involved in ending the II and/or XI' thing (I think he said as much in old forum threads). However, I don't think Night of the Wolf really works to explain Russ's comments (unless I'm misremembering something). It's made pretty explicit iirc that Russ came to Angron of his own volition. The wider Imperium/Emperor didn't issue an order. Whereas in PB the question isn't 'have the Wolves done Astartes on Astartes brawling before?' it's 'were the Wolves called on the 'sanction' another Legion?'. There's two aspects to that, the fact that it was an external order ('called on') and that the goal was specifically to destroy the target (as that's how 'sanction' is euphemistically used by the Wolves throughout Prospero Burns) not have a chat that breaks out into a fight (contrast with their action on Prospero). As neither of those traits applies to Night of the Wolf, I don't think it tracks that the Night of the Wolf is what Russ was referring to when talking to Hawser at the end of PB.
Quick note, this was an instance of two legions engaged in combat. It wasn't dozens of Wolves drawing a bead on Angron, it was hundreds. At a word, Angron would've been Lord of the Red Mist in an instant. That being said, I'm inclined to agree with MK's assessment. There was no winner. The Night of the Wolf was a massive waste of Astartes life, resources, and Lemans time. He proved his point, but Angron was far too beligerent to see the forest for the trees.
I feel like Majorkill is like one book behind me in horus heresy. I read about something and bam couple days later a video on that.
Just finished a workout then Majorkill hits me with Russ and Angron, just to remind me I'll never get enough gains.
Remember kids play for the objectives not just kills. Also considering each of Leman's Primarch battles having moments where he could've killed his brothers I kind of see him as a sad drunk in the sense of a veteran not wanting to relive their worst moments IE when he had to already purge one of the missing legions.
Also Majorkill Mini for Commissar Yarrick please.
@MajorKill Hey man just go to say thank you so much for the content. Lifes been shit mate, broke my ribs, not once, not twice, but three times due to my job in healthcare and shits been bleak af. Not exaggerating when I say your content has helped as i healed man, keep up with the good content and keep going toward 1 mill.
A cool gamechange would be a good Angron clone. No one expecting it and he could get some power to heal some of his sons.
Majorkill: the wolves show mercy where it’s deserved.
Thousand sons: am I a joke to you?
Russ begged them to surrender before it began.
@@andrewwilliams2014 that’s not really saying much everyone was telling him to stop the attack because it was comically obvious something wasn’t adding up Russ just had a massive hard on for killing Magnus and his legion at that point so he told them all to fuck right off
Angron love. I could cry. My favorite. He deserved better. But Russ definetly had him I just feel that for someone like Angron to truly understand anything it has to be drilled into him through force. Angron is the dumbest and most straightforward character. But this is a fantasy universe. You will never break angron, he will never submit. It’s a blessing to possess such immense power and willpower, but a curse to be so blind to your stubbornness and to see mercy as a weakness.
Oisin de Lange made a dope ass adaptation of Angron's tirad to Leman. It's epically chilling.
Wow the passion and Zeal in your voice was amazing ! ❤I absolutely loved it👌Iron within, Iron without🤖🤖🤖
The last line is 100% a heresy as well doubting the Emperor will.
I feel like Angron’s thought process is this:
He beat Russ 1v1, that’s a win. Angron doesn’t care that he was put in a position where he could have been easily killed, hell he probably welcomes the opportunity to finally die. His sons could have been wiped out, so? Angron sure as hell does not care if they live or die.
In summary, beating Russ was a win, dying also would have been a win.
Agreed russ is a sore loser
Ive found it weird that the big E coulda revived Ferrus but at the same time did not just rip the nails out of Angron then revive him
I would appreciate another what if video on what if Angron died here.
Imperator needed World Eaters because every legion has a puprpose.
Universal legions(can do any staff but are not super good at any specific task):
1. Dark angles
2. Emperor's Children
3. Ultramarines
Sneaky legions(diversions, espionage, terrorism, assasinations):
1. Night Lords
2. Raven Guard
3. Alpha Legion
Fighter legions:
1. Space Wolves(furious but kind)
2. World Eaters(furious angry stupid butchers)
3. Sons of Horus(furios and angry but smart)
Survivalist legions(with various survival traits):
1. Death Guard(can fight in any environment)
2. White Scars(can fight far from supply lines)
3. Blood Angels(can adapt to anything)
Siege legions:
1. Imperial Fists
2. Iron Warriors
Specialized legions(with a very precise task):
1. Iron Hands(cybernetics, possible alternative to tech priests)
2. Salamanders(crafters)
3. Word Bearers(propagandists, brainwashers)
4. Thousand Sons(psykers, scientists)
Any legion can fight, but effectiveness is different. 5 average Space wolves would crash 10 average Alpha Legioners. But no space wolf could infiltrate enemy ranks. And any alpha legioner is a superior warrior compare to a regular human. Also all astartes have the same model of power armor and other equipment. At least they have access.
So Imperator just did not want to stop World Eaters.
It was probably a good thing though. It doesn’t explicitly mention it, but I’d reckon this incident was eye opening to more than a few world eaters, and might have helped keep so many loyal.
When Russ and Horus first met, when they were the first two primarchs to EVER meet each other, Russ told Horus that on Fenris "Brothers often fight". Then asked, "Do you think we will fight?"
Horus thought he was asking to spar but Russ informed him, "No. I mean really fight." Russ was asking if they would be brothers the way Russ viewed the concept. Would they care enough about each other to come to blows? Would they actually be family or was the title just for show?
This was something of a foreign and backwards concept to the then Urbane Horus but it's a key insight into what the Wolf King of Fenris was thinking when he went to confront Angron.
Really was a tie. World eaters would've been the same without angron due to the nails. Russes sons would've prolly been ight either way since their primarch already tought em how to leadership etc. Even then is Russ even still alive? He pulled a jaghatai last i recall.
Does anyone else ever picture scenes from "Step Brothers" when it comes to Primarchs fighting each other?
i have a "what if" idea What if Rylanor Survive but Stay Loyal ?
I'm more and more sure that Angron just wants to die brutally like in a arena fight.
And in a manner that pleases his god, that don't give a f... where the skulls and blood comes from.
Love your content ❤
Nobody can rock nosehair you say? Might in introduce you to my boy Bobobo-bo-bobobo?
If I remember correctly, Angron was the one to smash open the imperial palace in the heresy.
Hey Majorkill. Here's a free video idea for you. You know that theory you said where the Primarchs had minor warp gods inside of them during their birth. Well how about a video on what IRL gods each primarchs represents. Here's a list for you. Alter it however you like:
1. Lion - Artemis, Arawn
2. Koalemos, God of Idiots and Fools.
3. Fulgrim - Apollo
4. Perterabo - Athena
5. Jagatai - Fujin, White Tiger of the West Winds
6. Leman Russ - Thor, Baldur
7. Rogal Dorn - Aniketos. Alexiares
8. Conrad - Chernabog
9. Sanguinius - Nanahuatzin, Kali and Shiva.
10. Ferus Manus - Hel
11. Priapus, Greek God of Male Genitals
12. Agron - Asclepius, Ares
13. Guliman - Themis
14. Mortarion - Beelzebub, Atlas
15. Magnus - Heka, Hecate, Toth
16. Horus - Horus, Athena
17. Lorgar - Coeus
18. Vulkan - Hephestus, Ogun
19. Corvus - Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto
20. Alpharius - Harpocrates
I would say Russ is more Tyr than Thor and Baldur; There is a fatalism to his character, an idea of duty and martial honor overcoming pride and hubris. Tyr sacrificed his hand to slake the beast Fenrir and I feel Russ is in the similar vein.
I know people make fun of the 2 and 11 for self deleting themselves but... What if they were too strong?
Lore on Imperial Navy, Mutants, Ecclesiarchy, and High Lords of Terra please.
The title of the fight should have been "WAR HOUNDS VS SPACE WOLVES: WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?"
Hey, day one of asking for a dedicated lore video on Belisarius Cawl. The mechanicus is still an area of lore I'm slowly learning, and I trust your videos more than pretty much any other, but I don't see any of yours about the lord of Mars specifically. I want to understand the weakness of my flesh and praise the Omnisiah
Angron had it coming from the start 😅💔
As much as I love Leman and his wolves, they lost the battle. Yes, they did prove their point, but it didn't change /shit/.
you should do a video on what happned to the countries on terra
Russ knew angron didnt care if he lived or died and russes goal wasnt to kill him so a kill zone was usless if you weren't going to kill him. So I think angron did win as he accidentally called the wolfs bluff.
Follow up video idea: how different everything turns out if russ did kill angron.
If Russ had a few hundred Thunder Warriors he would have won all together space wolves Astartes with there smarts and tactics while the Thunder Warriors could easily outmatch 3 or 5 world eaters each leaving Angron beaten and surrounded