No Spark No Start Ford Flathead Explained
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- čas přidán 2. 10. 2020
- I Explain how to diagnose a no spark no start on a Ford flathead and generally engines with points and how to check to see if the points are working, also, how to check a coil!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
My 81-year-old brother bought a model A, it has a diver bell distributor, now this motor and car ran and drove. He wanted to make some upgrades and he sent it to a garage called the hot rod shop. This man Dan Murphy sold the pack of lies to my brother telling him that he was going to change the chassis, change it over to 12 volt, well nothing was done to the tune of $20,000, and now my brother can't get his money back or locate this man. Now I have the task of trying to put this beautiful car back together. This man Dan Murphy cut every wire out of the car and I have no clue where to start. He sent the car back with broken windows and a harness in the back from American wire Don't know where to start need a lot of help thanks for listening John
Got one of these engines (a 53 8BA) in a custom 6x4 rig my dad built in the early 60s. Engine's never been opened up. Ran all over the desert here in the South West & even the dunes pretty steadily for almost 20 years before it got parked. Trying to get it back on the road again. Just sorting out some misfire issues now that turned up. SUBBED! as your channel seems to embrace these old motors & any info on them is always great to have.
Wow....I've recently started working on my first flathead engine in my 53 Mercury... and learning so much! This is a blast! Frustrating at times but super fun
Nice! Enjoy the experience!
Man bud. Got my Flathead running last week in my 31 sedan. Then it started running like crap. Bad condenser. Put a new one in this morning. Drove around the block. Ours are a lot alike f1 steering etc. dig the build bud. Keep up the good work. 8ba here.
Kev Stubblefield thank you for watching! Glad you got your 8BA running, nothing like a model A with a flathead V8, I would recommend leaving a condenser in the car just incase
Well the flathead I was going to buy ended up being the 21 stud and was pretty crusty so I passed on it. Had it been the 24 I would’ve snatched it up but wouldn’t have known the difference if it hadn’t been for your channel and info. Thanks a ton bro
No problem at all! Glad I could be some help
Thanks for the great video. Just so happened i was trying to get my 49 ford flathead to fire up today it's been since 1986 that it ran . No spark turns out the wire was open from coil to distributor. I was overjoyed when i finally saw a fat blue spark . Fired up right away but carb was leaking gas . Now to rebuild the carb . Long ways to go before i'm driving down the street ; ) Cool that you are trying to get your nephew interested in old cars. They need to be interested in something besides video games
Thank you for watching! Glad yours turned out good, my nephew definitely loves old cars now, he is always trying to sneak into my garage and sit in the cars haha
Thanks for the video, better than disney movies. Keep up the great knowledge videos
Haha I know that’s right! Thank you for watching Frank!
Thanks, needed that, new subscriber , just bought 47 mercury pick up , no spark
Great video sir. I just acquired my first flatty in a ‘50 coupe. Guess what- no spark. So this was a great find. Now off to locate my jumpers wires and voltmeter. Thanks!
I’m glad I could help! I’m working on a 50 sedan this weekend! 👍🏼
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop this ‘50 two-door (I’m told it’s not a coupe) is a nice old car that is 100% stock, parked in a garage since 1999. It’s for sale if you know anyone looking. Only damage is on the right rear bumper and rear body panel, rolled back into a telephone pole in 1986 according to the owner. Clean Arkansas title.
Thanks for the info . Hopefully I can get some spark out of my old flathead
Hope so too! What are you working on?
Awesome video, very clear
Thank you very much!
In about 1956 when I was 14 I had a no start on 47 engine in my 33 PU. I traced it to the feedthrough. What I'm calling the feedthrough is the widget that the coil wire connects to that then makes contact to a small T shaped connection inside the distributor. From there the circuit goes to the points. It was NOT making contact inside the feedthrough. I have never heard of anyone else finding having this problem but it did happen to me. So in addition to failed points and/or condenser the feedthrough may fail (or not make good contact inside the distributor).
you're the man thank you!
Glad I could help!
Hey Brother I really enjoy the wealth of knowledge you put out. I have a 1953 Ford V8 Flathead 239 and I was wondering if you could do a video on how to check and adjust the timing, possibly with a timing gun. Thanks
I appreciate it! I am actually doing a couple Flathead tune ups here soon, I’ll see what I can come up with video wise!
Hi Zack I have a 51 deluxe all stock 6 volt, I replaced everything,coil,plugs ,wires, cap, points, condensor, valves and guides, lifters, just waiting on a new carb! Just discovered I had coil wired backwards, but still no start just pops and backfires and even started a fire through the rusty pipes up front of the motor, this hasn't ran in 50+ years I was told, if I turn the key on I get power to both terminals on the coil is that normal?
Ps I'm no mechanic just trying this on my own.
Thank you!
Hi Zach,
Great videos, I think I have watched them all in the last week. lol. Just bought a 1940 Ford Pickup. The engine turns over easily, but I have no spark! The previous owner put a Pertonix coil and Stromberg e-fire distributor. It appears half of the wiring is for a negative ground system the other not so much. So, I am trying to start from scratch! If I am positive ground (6v) my negative will go to the condenser then starter I assume.... then what? I am also assuming I need to go to the coil ...HELP!!!
Thanks for the video. I am dealing with a flathead that is very finicky. Sometimes is starts right up, sometimes it cranks and cranks but won't start. I used one of those inline spark indicators and it appears I have a spark. I just cleaned the carb and checked the fuel pump. I only have 4.5 volts (I'm using a 6 volt 1935 Ford setup) at the coil with a battery showing 6.2 volts. My next step is to file the points and try a new condenser. Maybe jumper 6.2 volts right to the coil and bypass all the other wiring. Any other suggestions?
Thanks for watching, when it starts is there a lot of smoke coming out of the breather? I would be worried about compression then timing.
how do you get to the points( the bottom one) when the fenders are on ? and does this work on 6 volt pos. ground?
Thank you for your nice video, it's really worth 'gold'! Trying to get a spark from my '47 Ford truck... I got two questions for you (and maybe more in the future.. ;-) ). Where should I measure my (positive) volts exactly when testing the coil? Near the resistor, but where..?I got the original 6 volt systeem. When testing the points, I connect a wire between the positive side of the battery and the side of the coil that says 'bat'? I don't want them mixed up: positive and negative. I replaced the spark plugs, the rotor and the condensor. I hope you want you want to help me. Thank you very much! Greetings from Pieter (the Netherlands).
High Pete, sorry for the late reply, the wire coming out of the distributor needs to be going to the coil negative side, then you should be seeing 6 volts to the positive side of the coil, I hope this helps!
I have a 1938 Flathead, with the old dual cap distributor. The caps, wires and plugs are all brand new. My issue is the right side bank is running great, but none of the cylinders on the left are firing at all. I have checked and rechecked the plug wires and everything is good. I have spark at the plugs but still no fire. Any advice?
Awesome video! A lot of great information that helps out a lot more than just flatheads! When are you going to rebuild the juice brakes?
Thank you! And hopefully soon, this is my personal project, customer cars come first!
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop well that's good and bad in a way lol. how can you check a ballast resistor?
I know right! And you can check the ohms, it should be somewhere between .5 - 5 ohms, any less or more I would replace it
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop got it, thank you very much for all your replies
@@lowhunggarage9519 anytime!
Thoughts on making a video on how to prep a flathead for winter storage? Fogging cylinders? Draining carbs?
My best recommendation is to keep them running! Change out coolant for Evens Waterless Coolant, warm it up once a week, keep gas low in the tank is the best thing for a Flathead
To check the condenser touch the base with your ground and take a test lite center and if the light comes on its shorted out
I have a 51 Lincoln I want to know if there is possibly we can put a newer engine on it matter
I would like to know where the oil lines run off the oil filter housing on a 40 Ford thanks
Thank you for the videos…. Does the wire coming off the distributor go to the positive or negative side of the coil? I inherited my dads 48 ford and I don’t know a thing about flatheads. Thank you
No problem, thank you for watching! The wire coming out of the distributor goes to the negative side of the coil
Do you run solid copper core spark plug wires?
I have a 1946 Ford pickup with a 59ab installed in the truck and a spare block, intake, heads, carbs, misc parts here and there. All inherited from my grandpa who always said, it had low compression but it was driven into the garage its stored in, in I believe 94. I do know I removed the old 6v battery and have to weld in a new battery tray. I have been eating up all the info, had a key made for the column drop, probably 12v rewire eventually. any info/tips much appreciated
That’s great! Good motor to have, also they had low compression stock, looks like you found my 12 volt conversion videos, I have three total talking about the conversion, that’s where I would start if I was you
I have no spark on my 39 Ford flathead V8 it has the 6 volt system tank head distributor want to take off side caps to check them am afraid of loosing small parts am I safe to pull the side caps off thank you for your time I'm new at this
Side caps are just like modern distributor caps, should be no problem
Great video! Which alternator bracket is that?
Thank you! I am not sure actually, I got it second hand, but the alternator is a modern GM one wire! Great set up for a 12 volt system
Another great video!!! Be trying to start mine in about 3 weeks would like to share a video with you about it. I would like to get you opinion about it thanks!!!
Thank you! And great! I would love to see it. What type of Flathead is it?
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop 221ci 85hp 91a !!
Oh nice! I love the early blocks, I’m rebuilding a 99a at the moment
Excellent video! We are trying resurrect a ‘51 F1 with a Mercury flathead in it, and are having trouble getting spark. My question before we go through it this way is, was your engine negative ground or positive ground?
Hi Kevin, sorry for the late reply, I found the engine in a barn sitting on the floor, so I had no idea as I was going through it, ends up I think it was set up for modern 12 volts
Zac I am trying to find a oil bath air cleaner for my Sidevalve v8 it has a carby flat round surface that the air cleaner clamps on to do you have a spare one that may fit even if is a paper element I live in Australia and can not locate any please text me back if you have any regards sam
Have you done a vid on alternator conversion yet. I need to do one on my 1950 f1
Hello, sorry I am replying so late, I am doing one now as we speak! lol
1941 Ford Firetruck 6v pos ground system. I get 6volts on both pos and neg terminals of ignition coil when everything is hooked up normal and not cranking. Points are new, condenser new, multiple grounds (temp) video doesn’t describe this issue. What could it be?
I have an 8 BA with three Stromberg 97s. I changed the points over to a Pertronics unit and there was a noticeable increase in power. My question is how important is the vacuum advance since the 97s do not have a port. Anything worth fussing about? Thanks!
I would recommend drilling and tapping an aluminum intake for a vacuum port, but I have seen guys run them without it, I would suggest really powering it hard from a slow speed and see if you loose power, or even worse, choke and even die, if you’re having choking I would go with vacuum port on the intake, if not then you could just roll with it
Question: I have a 1951 Ford F1, 6 Volt flathead. 1st. Question: Do I connect the positive side of the battery to the ground cable that is connected to the side of the block? I have read that the connections on the battery is backward because of “positive ground”. 2nd question: I have no spark. I have an ignition switch with the push button. I have replaced the coil (6Volt), points, condenser. Cap and rotor looks fine. Turned the switch to the “on” position and moved the points looking for spark, but nothing. Thanks for any feedback you can provide.
given that the engine is still set up how it was originally, then yes the positive side of the battery needs to go to either the block or the transmission to block bolts, check to see if you are getting power to the coil, that's where I would start
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Will a SBC condenser work with a flathead dizzy?
It’s quite possible, they are basically the same part
currently running an 8BA in my 49 sedan and recently noticed a miss fire at a high rpm but seemed to smooth out at idle. just brought her home so nothing has really been gone through. I had one oddball plug so naturally i changed em all and added new wires. still getting a miss fire on the top of second gear but smooths out into 3rd after a few seconds. After this video i now have a few things to sort through but on the idea of saving me some time what do you suggest? I just ordered a coil condenser and points and figured i might as well rule those out. Any help would be appreciated.
Since you already ordered those parts I would go ahead and replace them and try again, I would think it could be either accelerator pump or your power valve, if that’s still the case after cleaning up the spark with the parts you ordered, then a carb rebuild is in your future
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop thanks for the advice 🤘
@@smed395 no problem!
Ok watched the video. I'm using a 12v battery to a ballast resistor to a 6volt coil. I went through all your tests and am get spark everywhere. But it seems like a lot of spark and very bright. Not the small blue spark you mentioned or talk about. I checked voltage on the resistor I'm getting 12.4/6 on both sides of the residence and to the coil. Is that right or is there something I'm missing. I thought the resistor would drop it to 9 or so. When I crank it, it just doesn't seem like it even is trying to fire off?
I replaced all the spark plugs and wires, coil and points and condenser before the tests. I'm thinking maybe it's a fuel issue at this point. Or could to high of voltage be an issue?
It should start with the high voltage, it just wouldn’t run for very long before it burned up the points. It sounds like your ballast resistor is bad and needs to be replaced. Also though if it’s not popping off at all I would suspect something else is keeping it from starting
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop ok thanks I'll look for another resistor. I this one is new that I just picked up from napa I'll try another one. Also should have mentioned this but my jumper wires from the battery to the resistor are are literally glowing hot and melting under a minute of hooking them up?
I plan on buying a 1951 Ford Shoebox in the future. These videos will definitely be helpful in the future when I get my hands on a Flattie! I’m kinda worried that it will have cracks though, like the ones that interfere with the cylinder bore. Would it be better to fix the crack itself, or use a bore sleeve?
Well the good news is Ford built millions of flatheads, so there is enough floating around I wouldn’t worry about fixing a crack between the valves to cylinder, and just get another, if there is cracks between the head stud and water jacket that was normal from the factory
ZEUSSx21 I would say the 8BA and 59 style blocks sound pretty similar, something to keep in mind is if you’re going to try to get some horsepower out of a flathead, and it being a 59, you’ll end up using all 8BA parts internally, I am obsessed with flatheads because of the sounds and looks, what I think gives it such a unique sound is the exhaust port going through the intake, and how it exits the block, nothing like a flathead with straight pipes and no muffler
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop Hell yeah, especially with dual exhausts! I don’t plan on making it straight pipe, but I like the idea of having lake pipes, so I could have open headers anytime I want to.
ZEUSSx21 yup I love lake pipes too, that’s what my model a is getting
Part 2 Q.
I did what you did, not getting spark when I open my points holding the wire to my coil. I am only getting blue spark negative distributor wire when I scrape it against the coil negative side there's a blue spark.
Hi just got 51 f3 , title says 1952 the truck VIN number says 1951. What do think ?
Is it hard to change it over from 6 V to 12 V and also can you change it over to electronica ignition?
It could’ve been built in 1951 and sold in 1952, they did things different back then, especially if the body style stayed the same, changing from 6 to 12 is easy when it comes to the engine, a little more difficult for the vehicle, if you don’t protect all your gauges you can blow them, as far as pertronics, it’s a simple change and makes a huge difference and greater dependability
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop I would also enjoy seeing a video on how to convert to 12volts. I know iron trap garage just showed a 6volt generator work on a 12volt system but they didn't say how they did it. (Unless generators adjust to whatever the battery takes?)
@@David-82 most likely switched to a 12v gen. Haven't seen the video just guessing. They make 12 alt that look like gen for flathead engines.
On my 1940 ford flathead V8 i have points sparking on one side and not the other side. Just installed new coil.
I would check that ground wire for the points
It looks like you are negative to ground. When testing an isolated coil in a 6 volt positive ground systems, do you make any connection changes? Also how would you test a condensor? I know they are cheap, but out of curiousity I'd like to know if it has failed. Btw, for a 6 volt positive ground system, do I just walk up to the parts counter and ask for an ignition condensor, or do I need a specific type of condensor?
Thanks
Thank you for watching Pete. The process with a positive ground is exactly the same, the charge is just coming from the other side, testing a condenser is actually a really long complicated process since it can actually hold a charge, I find it easier to just test the points when unhooking the coil and letting the coil connection almost tough, and manually moving the points open and shut while looking for a spark at the coil connection, then doing the same and check for a spark at the points, that’s much easier then testing the condenser, as far as ordering them, you can pick one up from the parts store if you’re running 12 volts, but a 6 volt system will have a specific type of condenser, I haven’t found them at a parts store yet, I order mine from shoebox central in California
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop Cool! Thanks for all that info.
@@vintagesirvivor no problem at all
Watched this time again, I'm getting spark to the plugs with the spark plug tester when you scrape the negative terminal on the battery you could see it's arcing. test light turns on in the off position of the toggle switch. In the on position the test light turns off. I have reversed the toggle switch wires and nothing changed. I've checked my wires over and over nothing seems to be in the wrong order something might be I don't think so yeah I don't get spark when cranking or any sparking at the points. Everything is brand new, yeah there's power going to my coil to my plugs just no spark between the points how's this even possible
Could you do a video on how to convert to a 90% filter oil system on the flathead?
If possible also how to convert to a remote modern spin on oil filter.
I would love to, just depends on my workload, I might have one coming up on a 42 Ford
A friend of mine has a system that he blocks the oil pump from going into the engine. He then re-routes it out through the side of the sump through a modern common spin on filter then into the back of the block where the pressure guage would go. He drills and taps it to a bigger size for more flow. It works well.
My flat head has O compression should it start but miss or run rough
At zero compression it won’t run at all, flatheads with 60 psi run pretty rough
Great video man, there's not to many videos on old flatheads. So I have the same set up as your first motor the one you did the spark check on. I'm at the same spot with mine but my car is still 6 volt.
So when testing the coil with the new 6 volt battery, do I check it pos to pos or do I do something like pos to neg, ?
There is two ways to check the coil, put a spark plug on the coil wire and lay it down on the motor somewhere where it can ground and crank the motor over and watch the color of the spark, or you can remove the coil from the motor and check home many ohms there is between the positive and negative side of the coil, every coil is ohm rated
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop ok I'll try the spark plug way, I don't really follow your second suggestion. Do you mean the coil has power in it like a battery?
Thanks for your help very much appreciated.
@@michaelmchugh2923 you can test the resistance in the coil when it’s unplugged, if it has the wrong resistance then it’s either old or bad
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop ok, I would need a volt meter for that, all I have is a test little right now.
What state are you from?
P.s.
I Googled checking a flathead Ford for spark and it brought me to a small clip of your video.
@@michaelmchugh2923 nice! I am Google verified now haha, I am in Virginia!
@wiredcustoms are you running a 12 volt coil with what ballast resistor are you using?
Correct, it is a 12 volt coil
Wired Customs LLC awesome. What is the specs on the coil (internal Ohms resistance, etc.) Also what are the specs on the ballast resistor? Thanks for your helpful video
As for the coil it’s usually .5 - 2 ohms, but I try to see the spark instead of trying to see OL, I look for the blue spark to see if it’s a strong coil, for the ballast resistor 1.5 - 5 ohms when new, and no problem at all!
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop Thanks so much!
Andre L no problem!
Are there different condenser for the different distributors or would one work on all? Thanks dealing with a no spark on a 40 ford
There are Bob, the early Helmet distributors have a specific style of condenser, the layers distributors are close to being all the same, depends on which distributor is on your engine
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop I have a helmet with the 12 volt adapter
@@Bob-qf4qo so do you have the remote coil conversion too?
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop no I don’t have that
I bought a FORD 60 motor, alum heads (smooth) alum single h2o pump distributor intake single carb, no belhousing on the block, now comes my problem, the heads where off turns over like a new motor, so I bought head gaskets from ebay and some of the holes didn't line up so after checking the web it seems I have a french motor and instead of 60 hp it could have 110 to 180 hp? I know this doesn't sound right but I need help in getting head gaskets etc for it can you steer me in the right direction? It has alum belhousing too, the clutch is 7 or 8 inches I'd have to look, I'll send you my email but I don't want it be out there for everyone. I'm 81 and I've got an old boneville 1928 roadster pickup 327, power glide 1957 ford rear, I'd appreciate any help thanks Jim
how should the ignition points be set up in the distributor?
The wire from the negative side of the coil, should feed into the distributor and connect to the points as well as the condenser
Doesn't look like there's anything too terribly unusual about the ignition circuits on these engines. Fairly standard point setup. Aside from the odd physical design of the distributors on a lot of them there's nothing here that doesn't apply to literally any points ignition ever made. Even the early helmet type is just a standard points system.
I love that.
Fixin' to pick up a 46 Super Deluxe to daily, so I'll probably be in there on the regular keeping it running right. Prolly once a year to check/service the points. Don't anticipate any major issues out of the 59AB in it....the legendary ruggedness and dependability of these V8s is part of my draw to the car as a whole...but it is nice having access to information like this just the same.
ive seen you workin a banjo ...any video of it by any chance ?
I recorded a how to video on it, I plan to put it back together Monday, I’ll have that video up sometime next week
Thanks bro…your doing a great job on your channel…keep up the good work
So I think I’ve decided to get a 1946 Ford Coupe. I’m just curious as to how much body roll it will have, especially since they have a transverse semi-elliptic leaf spring suspension. Have you ever rode in a car with a similar suspension set up?
I grew up and learned how to work on cars starting with a 1946 Ford Business Coupe, that was my dads hotrod and he taught me how do do everything to the car, these cars do have some body roll, but nothing you would consider dangerous, they feel more like you’re riding in a boat, or even similar to a Cadillac, just make sure you have good shocks and it’s a great ride
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop Awesome! I found a 1946 Ford Coupe on the FB Marketplace that was last driven in the mid 70s. The upholstery is torn up, and the chrome is all rusted. They want $4,000 for it. Does that seem like a fair price?
@@zeussx2120 if the car isn’t very rusty then you have found one hell of a deal, coupes around where I live in Virginia can go up to 7000 if the body is in good shape and all the parts are there, it doesn’t have to be running
I've got a 46 business coupe I'm about to sell
@@blacksmithcrazy nice! You should post it on “The Flatspot a Flathead Support Group” on Facebook, you would get some good feedback
Hi! Great video. I have installed a 1941 Zephyr V12 in a mahogany boat. I had it converted to 12 volts. It has 2 condensers and a built in coil. How do I hook up a new tachometer? Maybe a 6 cylinder to one of the condensers? I am stumped! I can send pics if needed.
Thanks! Doug
Thank you for watching Doug! On the V12 you only have two options that I know of, either find a really expensive and hard to find mechanical tachometer, or upgrade the coil to a remote coil and hook up a tach traditional style
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop could I wire a 6 cylinder tach to one of the condensers?
It has the double distributor caps. Each side sparking 6 of the 12 cylinders.
@@douglasfedt5299 yes sir the mechanical tachometer can run off of the generator
@@douglasfedt5299 if you have one Doug you could give it a try, I haven’t tried it before but I would think after the condenser it might not put out enough to pick up on the tach
I have 2 flatheads i still cant get started even with spark and staring fluid . My spark is there but not strong enough to start. Also i have a video of it not cranking but getting 12 volts
It would like the timing is off to me, could be a lot of different factors
Is my coil supposed to be super hot ?
They also pollute like hell too.
Nice video but aren't all those engines supposed to be positive ground?
They came set up that way, couple simple changes and they can be negative ground and less complicated to someone not as used to it
@@WiredCustomsSpeedShop True but some might find this nice video confusing. Just a suggestion.
@@petemcl99 oh okay that makes since, I’ll definitely keep that in mind when making more video
Generaters