The ONLY Brady-Belichick Debate You Need to Watch
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2023
- Who was more responsible for the “Patriot Way” and all the success in New England: Tom Brady or Bill Belichick? Pro Football Hall of Famers Warren Sapp, Brett Favre, Marshall Faulk, and Brian Urlacher debate this hot topic.
Watch the full episode here: • Video
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Tom Brady's success went to Bill Belicek's head.
Brady took the Bucs from toilet bowl to Super Bowl in one year!!
I rest my case.😂
He needed a super team to do it
@@marvshirk6302 The same team Winston could not win 8 games with?
@@marvshirk6302 *WAITS*
Yep, EXACTLY. It was the team Brady DESERVED, and Bill is terrible as a GM and worse players WILL NOT play for him! Every player Tom scored a TD with in that Super Bowl, Tom drafted. TOM DRAFTED THEM TO COME TO TAMPA BAY!@@WillMuny
@@marvshirk6302stop it..nobody called them a super team when they were 7-5..and that whole playoff run a the sport media picked against the bucs every playoff game..they only became stacked and a super team after they won..gtfooh
This is way better than anything you’ll see on ESPN. ESPN is almost unwatchable
Almost?
I'll never watch liberal ESPN again
Most ESPN content isn't really there to be watched. It's more there to just sort of have on. Most of the ESPN content doesn't even attempt to tell you something you don't know. The words of their analysts are mostly just an excuse for you to stare at a screen.....except for Stephan A. His value goes beyond that, cause you are actually supposed to enjoy him, but even then you're not watching him to hear something you don't know. You're watching because Stephan A does an amusing Stephan A impression.
I thought it was a woman's network now?!?! Like WE Channel or something
@@dirkemery8941you’re down watching MNF sure bud, whatever makes you sleep at night
I think this discussion describes the Belichick/Brady question pretty well. The only thing I might add is that Brady rarely had great running backs or receivers (ok Randy Moss was an exception), but Brady would take whoever he had: Welker and Edelman are two examples, and work off season with them, until they had incredible timing and agreement on routes. Edelman and Welker were great because they worked with Brady. Brady rarely had greats on offense he made his line look good, by quick release, etc. No question Gronk was good but Brady knew how to use him.
It was 2006 when Brady had his first Patriot offensive teammate make the Pro Bowl.
Matt Light...as an alternate.
You have got to be kidding?
Tom never had great receivers!!!!
Wes Welker is the FIRST RECIEVER in NFL history to have 5 CONSECUTIVE SEASONS with over 100 RECEPTIONS and 1,000 YARDS RECEIVING!!!
He beats out Every received in the NFL for yearly production.
As for Edelman, when compared to the other receivers IN THE HOF:
Edelman averaged more receptions per season than all but 4 of them.
He averaged more yards receiving per season than all but 7 of them.
He averaged more TDs per season than 3 of them.
However, when Wes and Jules are compared to only other Slot receivers in the HOF and not to the WO in the HOF... Jules and Wes are ranked 1st and 2nd in production among all Slot Receivers in the HOF!!!!
No Slot Receiver in the HOF has more receptions or yards receiving. They are only eclipses in TDs per season. But they were both playing along with Randy Moss and the Gronk. Both of whom took up the scoring duty leaving moving the chain duties to Wes and Jules.
Wes and Jules were GREAT Slot Receivers, their yearly production proves it!
Tom also benefitted by having Dante Scarnecia as his Offensive Line coach, plus several high-quality linemen blocking for him, who are already in the Patriots HOF, and will be in the NFL's HOF as well if not there already.
Tom throughout his career made the point that he owes a lot to his linemen:
"No QB can do his job without a quality front line blocking and keeping him safe in the pocket."
There are different ways to play the game of football. A QB can play the short passing game or the long ball game. Manning was a long baller, he had a big arm. Tom was a short game player.
For so many years the talking heads would complain as mid-season neared, that Tom had yet to throw a ball beyond 20 yards.
That was not Tom's strength, Tom was a Master of the short, quick passing game. He needed great route-running receivers like Wes, Jules, Dave Patten, and Deion Branch.
These guys were not Great long Ball WO Receivers, true. But they were great at Tom's game. They ran precise, timed routes so that when they were supposed to turn 5 yards, they turned at 5 yards. Not every receiver can be so precise.
There are great short ball receivers and great long-ball receivers.
Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were great long-ball receivers not doubt about that.
But that was not Tom's specialty.
Tom Mastered the short game, and Tom had more GREAT short-ball slot receivers
than any other QB in the NFL, because Bill specifically sought them out because that game is what Tom excelled at.
The Slot Receiver is NOT the most glamorous job in the Offensive receiving corps, but they do the most important job, moving the chains, AND they take the hardest hits crossing the inside.
@@billandrews cope more
@@billandrewsBrady had a great deep ball, pats just never drafted any decent players. 2007 with Moss, Gronk caught loads of deep balls. Did you not watch him in Tampa? Mike, Chris and Scooter caught loads of deep balls when he got chance.
@tomrachellesfirstdance7843 people say tom couldn't throw a deep ball. If that was the case they'd never talk about moss and Tom in 07 because that was all deep balls all season long. Like you said, he could do it. Bill just didn't build the team that way. Jules was fantastic because he worked with Tom and learned how he wanted him to play. He was a qb, not a reciever, he's said this himself. Wes, moss and gronk. Those are the standouts. Everyone else was just misfits that they utilized properly. Look at hogan, he was a lacrosse player.
Brady did most of the actual coaching for his offenses. Belichick is not a good communicator so interpersonal communication and motivation isn't his strong suit. Brady was so good and so dedicated he inspired every player on the team to give their all. It was Brady all along.
100%
Facts. The stories players would tell of Brady are legend!
Tom Brady, an offensive mastermind, never really let Bill Belichick, a defensive mastermind, down whereas Belichick sometimes let Brady down. Absolute proof of this is the 2011 season, in which the New England Patriots had the second-worst defense in the entire NFL and yet Brady, the quarterback on offense, nearly won them a 4th Super Bowl. All in all, Bill Belichick really hasn’t had a whole lot of success as a head coach without Tom Brady, enough said.
This will seem like cherry picking but in 2007 the Patriots were the most effective offense the league had ever seen at that point . They went to the super bowl and lost to a mediocre 9 and 7 Giants team who happened to have a slightly more impressive defense who could get pressure on the QB without needing a 5th pass rusher.
If this doesn't drive home the fact that defense wins championships I don't know what does. In Brady's time with the patriots the one season where the offence was the most effective ever, they failed to reach their championship goal. There were SIX other seasons where they DID actually win it all despite inferior offensive play.
Point being, that if you go along with the premise that Brady is responsible for the offence and Belichick is responsible for defense, that suggests who's more important. The one who controls the side of the ball that translates to championships.
@@zackwalker1721 "If this doesn't drive home the fact that defense wins championships"
If Joe Burrow had scored 24 points in SB, Bengals would have won the SB; if Joe Burrow had scored 24 points in 2023 AFCCG, Bengals would have beat Chiefs and back to SB again.
So dimwit, tell me how Pats won the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th SB.
@@williamli6200 by scoring more points than the people they played against? what point do you think you just disproved exactly?
@@zackwalker1721 Here is what Belichick said to press after loss to Commanders, you can argue with the dumbfook you love so dearly:
“Like yesterday (against Washington), we had our chances. *We just need more plays at the critical times of the game”*
See what a dumbfook belichick is? He *expected high QUALITY plays from a CHEAP squad,* because Brady was able to do it since 2001, Brady did it in 1st SB. Obviously, the dumbfook doesn't think it is a big deal, of course his admirers don't either.
@@zackwalker1721 Who else would be able to score 24 or more in 2 playoff games with the squad Brady had before 2007?
Who else would be able to score 24 or more in 3 consecutive playoff games with the squad given by BeliCHEAP?
You think Pats could have won 3rd SB with only 20 points? If Brady had scored only 24 points in SB against Seahawks, there would be no throw and no INT, it would be another epic collapse of Belichick's defense.
Urlacher is 100% correct saying Kirk Cousins is an old school QB. No one stands in the pocket and takes hits the way he does
Why is Brett Favre here? He didn't say anything for almost 4 minutes straight. The guy worked with a politician to steal Mississippi welfare money for his daughters volleyball stadium. He sent texts of his genitals to a Jets sideline reporter while his wife had breast cancer. This man should never be invited on any show.
TB12 sought rigorous coaching, fueled by an unwavering commitment to the loyalty and validation of his teammates.
When Brady steps foot on the team every player knows they have a chance to win the SB, don't think it's the same for Belichick.
That's because Belichick is not on the field throwing the ball and making plays.
Obviously TB12's lack of ego was the main ingredient. They were the most prepared team in the nfl.
Brady was a force multiplier. Here was like an extra coach on the team. Everybody that played with him talks about his work ethic. He was a FIERCE competitor. That made everybody better. Ultimately, he left because Belicheck, after 19 years, wasn't treating him like the contributor that he was. He just wearied of it.
Listening to Brett is very concerning. He sounds like he has the beginnings of CTE. Hope he's getting treatment. I know he's talked about it. But hope he follows up and there is breakthrough treatment soon.
Yeah, he's for sure experiencing some slowdown. He has that Joe Biden stare into the abyss a bit as well.
And he wasn’t that bright to start
@@MisterCrookedNose You subtly brought up an important about brain disease. You have to exercise your mind to keep sharp and Favre never had that outlet. Steve Young has suffered from post concussion syndrome for a while. He said because of his varied interests and education, he has been able to stave off really bad effects of the disease.
He graduated college, did you? I bet you're a HS dropout.
Like that equals intelligence @@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8om
Favre definitely has CTE. He can’t say two sentences in a row without saying ahhh uhhhh uhhh ahhh
It’s bad. And he deserves all of it lol. Hopefully, he becomes a vegetable before he rips off anymore charities. What a piece of garbage.
Really slowed up mentally
I don't know. He might have been intoxicated. I also noticed he was "off."
@@JayTide go back and listen to a few of Jason’s shows with Favre as guest. It’s the same
I remember earlier on in Brady's career he was the most improved player working out. From then on he'd be working out hours before everyone else and be the last to leave. That's some serious dedication.
saying Lovie Smith is a great coach or even putting him in the same sentence as Belichick is CRAZY talk from Urlacher
If Lovie had a qb of Brady's caliber he'd have a couple SB rings by now
Considering what he did with the bears, not really.
Lovie took Rex Grossman to a super bowl won with Kyle Orton and NFC champ with Cutler Belichick can even win a playoff game without Brady
Lovie was the best coach the Bears have had since the SuperBowl Shuffle, and it was a huge mistake for them to get rid of him.
IS BRETT UNDER CONCUSSION PROTOCOL? DAMN. ANSWER THE QUESTION!
It’s amazing the guy can still walk and talk, with the hits he took? Give the dude a break.
"Greatest coach." Laughably pathetic. Without Tom Brady, Belichick is a sub .500 coach
Well said John!! I always thought Brady was the brains of that marriage!! Without Brady Belichick is hot garbage 😂 The current Patriot team is unwatchable!!
Every greatest coach candidate had good players
Shula, Halas, Gibbs, Knoll, Parcells, Walsh are just some of the HC'S better than the coatrider.
With two championships as a coordinator. I know a coordinator and head coach aren't the same thing, but he's won multiple championships as a coordinator. Just sayin'
@@darrylturner2611Chris Hogan has the minimal amount of physical talent necessary in order to be an NFL receiver, and really not a shred of physical talent beyond that (Chris, if you're reading this sorry to pick on you. Yet when he was involved with the Pats he was actively involved in championship runs, and he looked like Jerry Rice during multiple playoff games. Who's responsible for having that midas touch with a guy like Chris Hogan? the people who aquired him and all the players around him, and devised the scheme that he worked within in order to effectively seperate from defenders in a way that he could never have dreamed of doing anywhere else? Nah Brady must be the one who turned water into wine with Chris Hogan, cause like....he threw fits on the sideline and stuff. (plus was the greatest QB ever. wouldn't deny it. I'm just ignoring it for effect.
The fact that BB didn’t feel the need to recruit better players is a testament I just how good Brady was that they can still win with less. I just wish they hadn’t cheated Brady from getting the money that he deserved. that was supposed to go for top-notch players
Farve is EXACTLY right about your starting QB "buying in" and setting the tone in practice etc. Look the teams struggling this season with non alpha QB's and bad attitude dudes in the locker room ( Pitt / N. Orleans )
What's something that someone like Mahomes has over Brady. He's a far more talented pure thrower of the football than Brady and arguably any other player in history. While Mahomes is no Mike Vick, he's also far more atheltic than Tom Brady, and has been involved in multiple runs that made a crucial difference in his most important playoff games. Not saying those two things are all that matters, but they mean something.
What's something that Brady does better than Mahomes? He buy's in. See how by comparison that strength is sort of an empty subjective strength that can't even be quantifiably measured? Look. Mahomes still has a ways to go before he surpasses brady, but I can't help but notice that the Brady advocates are starting to use this language. the sort of nostalgic wistful language that doesn't actually mean much.
@@zackwalker1721 "What's something that Brady does better than Mahomes? He buy's in."
*Passing progression,* ever heard of that? it is how a QB can pass from his primary target to 2nd to 3rd.
It has nothing to do with QB's athletic ability, Brady is the best ever on this skill.
BTW, that is the reason 49ers offense is so efficient under Purdy.
@@williamli6200Yeah passing progression is what makes Brady better, and it's why Mahomes still has a way to go before surpassing Brady, as a said flat out. The claim I'm making is not that ALL of the Brady praise is meaningless as he is legitimately the greatest ever at this point in time. My claim is that much of it is meaningless.
@@zackwalker1721 LOL, what makes you think he has a chance? His offense this season so far is not even as good as Brady's offense before 2007.
I’m no Mahomes fan but that’s absurd to think that Pat and Andy don’t have that sort of relationship.
It was OBVIOUSLY all Brady. Just look at the Belichick coaching tree, which BEARS NO FRUIT! In fact, I think it was BB's (notorious) DISLIKE of the Quarterback position was part of Brady's MOTIVATION to dominate.
And also: Brady LEFT THE TEAM and IMMEDIATELY WON A SUPER BOWL!
Nonsense all around.
The Belichick coaching tree bears no fruit? So what? THAT does NOT speak to Belichick being a less-than-great head coach, and the Pats success being all Brady. One does NOT follow from the other. But rather, I could counter that BECAUSE Bill had few assistants (if any) that went on to have successful head coaching careers, the good coaching on the Pats was attributable mostly to Belichick. But I'm NOT going to say that. Some very good assistants (and Bill had them) are destined to be just that: Lieutenants and not Generals. Very few can be good head coaches.
Belichick's notorious dislike of the quarterback position?? Where the f**k are you getting that nonsense?? Bill Belichick is not a stupid man,
Yep, some weird Brady lover! lol
@@jamesanthony5681dumb people making dumb arguments thinking they are on another level of thought. Gotta ignore them lol.
All Brady? Brady's first and last Pat SBs the offensive accounted for 13 points each game.
Teddy Bruschi and some others gave credence to the “Patriot Way”. Brady followed suit. That’s what happened.
Yep. Their defense in the early years was amazing. They had 4 or 5 HOF caliber players.
@@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8omthey still aren't winning a Super Bowl without Brady as QB
Brady was the patriot way
I'm no Whitlock fan but this is a hell of a foursome he put together. Do more of this please.
Why is Brett Favre here? He didn't say anything for almost 4 minutes straight. The guy worked with a politician to steal Mississippi welfare money for his daughters volleyball stadium. He sent texts of his genitals to a Jets sideline reporter while his wife had breast cancer. This man should never be invited on any show.
Pause
Yep, this was an outlier. I don’t like him
I don’t like you two!!! So what? Don’t watch Lefties! Get your boosters and go away!!! Please!!!!!
You guys are shit people if you still have respect for Brett Favre. Really exposing yourself here.
When you watch the way Brady played when he was in Michigan it looks exactly the same. If not for the uniform You would almost think that it’s the pats playing. That’s all am going to say.
Belechick did not fully understand who Tom Brady was it's obvious to see now. Brady led the whole NFL in touchdowns in 2002 with a not so great offense under the old rules imagine that but it really happened That should have given coach a clue about how great Brady was about to become. Yeah they won the Superbowl the next two straight years after that but the games were close The one thing that made me happy about coach was that from 2007- 2017 he did a very good job signing free agent offensive players to help Tom win the big games but if he understood how great Brady really was then he would have given him better weapons the first half of his career and that's the truth from me the former king of Tom Brady football cards
Ego + arrogance = Bellechick
Brady had 28 tds and 14 ints with a rating of 85. He wasn't that great. 28 tds was good, but 14 ints wasnt.
@@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8om He threw over 600 passes (3rd in the NFL) Duh! And because he often played from behind because Belichick "D" was so horrible that season he was put into a situation where he had to pass the ball into prevent defenses. And QBR is without question the most ridiculous stat when determining the value of a QB. It's like BA. in baseball. Reggie Jackson had a career BA of .260 ... Guess who's called Mr October? He threw over 600 passes in an era that was clutch and grab and he still finished in the bottom 33% for INT's .. That's incredible. Manning threw 19 INT's in 2002 on less passes
And keep in mind Brady plays half of his games in windy,cold and wet Foxborough. A guy like Manning plays half his games in perfect Dome conditions. That would never enter your mind though
Nobody understood Tom Brady. That's why he was a 6th round draft pick,
The modern day football genius, Bill Walsh, had no solid belief in Joe Montana (3rd round pick, 1979), initially questioning whether Joe had the consistency to be successful. Montana was almost an afterthought when Walsh drafted him. Drafting a QB is a crapshoot.
You don't know how lucky Tom Brady is from being drafted by a team. He wouldn't be in the NFL. Let that sink in your head
I screamed it for YEARS!! Bill was an 8-8 coach before Tom and he would go back to being an 8-8 coach after Tom. You can’t replace the leadership and the respect Tom carried for DECADES with guys who don’t fully buy into the system.
8-8? Without TB12 he is just a 4-13 coach
Not just that all the pay cuts Brady took thru his entire career in NE so they can build around him and they never did they just kept filling them pockets and putting all the pressure on Tom
Nonsense.
Facts!!
It's an impossible question. Dan Marino only went to ONE super bowl, Don Shula had won 2. Marino was largely considered one of the greatest passers in NFL history but NEVER had a running game. It's a TEAM sport. The Bulls stopped winning titles as soon as Jordan left but without him, they were good enough to make the playoffs. You need support guys. If Brady doesn't have Welker, Moss, Gronkowski and the host of pro bowl guys around him, I see the Pats struggle to win anywhere NEAR the amount of titles they did. It IS a combination of things. Look at what McVay does in LA, a team loaded with rookies and a few old stars yet they're playing really good football this year. The coach matters but he needs quality players to be effective.
What separated Brady early on in his career was his ability to keep his eyes down field even with the rush closing in.
Good point. Their offensive line was a work in progress during the early 2000s. Damien Woody couldn't even shotgun snap, and Brandon Goran was an average tackle.
@@brianshaughnessy4020 Lets be very clear about this. Tom Brady is considered the greatest ever, and he's blown by the next closest guy by so much that it's a joke. It's laughable to deny that he's the greatest. No debate to be had. I do have to acknowledge this though when he won those 3 super bowls early in his career, while he was one of the faces of the league, and considered an all time great at that point, the basic consensus was that he was not the greatest ever. It wasn't till around the point that he was at 6 trips to the superbowl with 4 wins that more people than not accepted the fact that he was the best ever. If Peyton Manning had made it to 3 super bowl wins that early in his career, can you imagine the crowd of people proclaiming him the best they'd ever seen to be nearly as small?
Brady's championship runs are actually a little more of a quantity over quality thing, only in his case the quantity of success is so vast that that's enough to outdo the lack of quality. When Patrick Mahomes gets a single ring, it's been more impressive than Tom Brady getting a single ring, because Mahomes has looked more amazing while doing so. A single patrick Mahomes ring is not greater than TEN super bowl trips and SEVEN wins however.
'he's The handsome DEVIL 😈 himself ', 😊
Yeah right lol. Brady's first 7 or 8 years he was known as a game manager who did nothing but throw check downs and short slants. They ran the legs off of Corey Dillion.
@@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8om Hey goofball you obviously have trouble with chronological timelines and embellishing and stretching the facts. First of all Brady has only had 3 ~~ 1000 yards rushers in history in 21 years and Dillion had only one good season and that was in 2004. In Brady's first season the Pats offense went from 28th in 2000 to 6th in 2001. In Brady;s 2nd season he led the entire NFL in passing TD's and was 4th in passing yards. By his 6th season he threw for 50 touchdowns and was league MVP. Take some math courses in 2024 Hahahaha
I will never forget watching Urlacher running from 20 yards behind to catch a wide receiver down the field and Tackle him excellent athlete
Why is Brett Favre here? He didn't say anything for almost 4 minutes straight. The guy worked with a politician to steal Mississippi welfare money for his daughters volleyball stadium. He sent texts of his genitals to a Jets sideline reporter while his wife had breast cancer. This man should never be invited on any show.
I'll never forget the time Brady deked Urlacher and ran by him for a first down...
TB12 every time. Belichick didn't handle the ball, TB12 did. I would say that Belichick is the luckiest Coach in Football, not the best. Without Brady, Belichick would be average at best. At the Giants, Belichick needed Parcells to win , at NE he needed Brady to Win. Now that he has neither, he's average, at best.
its a team game players need to make the plays and the coaches need to put the players in the right spots to make em.
"Players win games, coaches lose them." - Bill Belichick
Funny you should say that cause Favre is there. I remember his last ever throw as a Packer being a horrid interception that ended their playoff run...and his last ever throw as a jet being a horrible interception that killed their season....plus we all the remember his final season as a Viking where he half heartedly hobbled around for one year just so that we couldn't also say that his final throw as a Viking was a horrible pick that killed their playoff run.
@@zackwalker1721 Why is Brett Favre here? He didn't say anything for almost 4 minutes straight. The guy worked with a politician to steal Mississippi welfare money for his daughters volleyball stadium. He sent texts of his genitals to a Jets sideline reporter while his wife had breast cancer. This man should never be invited on any show.
Bill has come out and said how lucky he is to have coached the players he did.
@@zackwalker1721 Well since you seem to have a photographic memory do also recall Brett Favre being named the 6th greatest QB in NFL history when 25 Hall of Famers got together in 2019 to name the top 10 QB's ever when the league celebrated its's 100th anniversary. ???
Do you remember Favre playing an unheard of 300 straight games without missing a start? *NFL RECORD*
Can you imagine how tough you have tobe to do that in the cold and windy NFC North
How about being named to the NFL 1990s All-Decade Team?
3 time MVP and 4 time TD passing leader and a dimwit like you is trying to undermine him.
He threw for 33 TD's and 7 INT's for the Vikings and they went 12-4 > Do you remember that?
Better get checked for alzheimer's in 2024 Champ . you are missing a lot.
Care for more trips down memory lane? I'll gladly oblige you
Belichick deserves credit for developing Brady into a great QB. Look at Brady’s numbers the first few years that he played. He wasn’t one of the top QB’s in the league right away. The first Super Bowl that New England won, Brady threw for a measly 145 yards. Brady eventually became the GOAT, but Bill had something to do with that.
He didn’t develop anything with Brady. If anything he hindered him at the beginning. The only thing he can take credit for is keeping Brady on the field when Bledsoe got healthy. The first year he started they won the SB. Doesn’t get much better than that. And he was the difference. Belichick thought he was the reason and his philosophy was why they dominated right up till the end. Probably still does. Brady left and they went straight in the crapper.
Tom was The Patriot Way. Tom allowed Bill to bring in players on the cheap and still win. Since Tom has left NE is committing penalties and the Patriot Way is gone. Tom is the GOAT and tough as nails.
I know Brett has never been a great fluent speaker but I think he should really get tested for possible CTE bec he's really getting worse in his English speaking.
Without BOTH of their synergistic flow, & comtributions, neither 1 of them would have achieved what they did without the other.
They are the ultimate example of, "they fed off each other." The result was muchos Super Bowlos!
Brady was most important! Everyone knows that
It’s TB12. He is the reason guys came to New England, no game changer has come to New England since TB12 left.
Did BB have some impact of course but it’s abundantly clear that without TB12 not a chance the Patriots have 6 SBs.
Tom’s impact is way beyond the field. He is the best leader of men than probably anyone in any sport. He was prepared like no other QB in history and made sure everyone was prepared and set that expectations/example that the rest of the team followed
Both cause that great defense they had was all Bill,Brady and him are the same person driven to win at all cost,with a great culture established by Bill and imbraced by the best player on the team and followed by everyone else.
Great take - this is the key to success in football that most people don't talk about
Yes, QB's that sustain drives and avoid quick possession changes don't help defenses at all.
Belichick only has this "culture" when Brady is making chicken salad out of Belichick's chicken crap offenses and keeping the locker room from imploding.
The defense you brag about was not even as good in playoff as Bengals defense of last 2 seasons.
Don't talk about the culture, only dumbfook will believe players will work hard because coach tells them to; only dumbfook will believe players will take less money because coach tells them to.
@@williamli6200 have the bengals won anything 😂 nah,the pats got 6 of them thangs nuff said.
You mean the great culture in New England prior to Brady *5-13* .277 Win% and (0-2) to start off the 2001 season?
Week 3 and after with Brady to the conclusion of the 2001 season 14-3 *.823 win%*
I'm a 47 year Patriot fan and huge fan of the Brady/Belichick era.. But right now how can you look at the Patriots and say Bill is a still a great coach?
He's still an amazing coach. If you were a patriots fan, you'd realize that simply by looking at our defense. Clearly the issue is his GM duties and the only reason getting rid of him is on the table is because he is most likely not going to give up those duties.
@@swup9851 The Defense that gave up 14 points to the Broncos in the 4th quarter? Yea their something to be proud of... You're living in the past... They can't stop a mediocre QB let alone a good one.
@@DMDvideo10 living in the past? Go look at the overall rankings, they're a top 5 defense lmao. How can you tell others they are living in the past when the statistics don't back you up, the eye test doesn't back you up, and you cherry pick the instances in which they do bad.
It's Brady!
I wonder if Bill just got lucky to be able to coach the best players EVER IN HISTORY OF THE NFL TB and LT.
He's the "Phil Jackson" of the NFL😂
@@zero1fifty8 Yes basically
@zero1fifty8
"He's the "Phil Jackson" of the NFL😂"
None of those NBA stars won anything until they were coached by Jackson.
Those guys are so respectful to Brett, he's talking so much but saying so little.
matt cassel step in for brady and went 11-5 when brady tore his acl. The patriots in that era was a different team/culture IMO
So they had a 7 game drop off is what you’re saying. The previous year they went undefeated until the Super Bowl. It would be the equivalent of a 14 win team dropping to 7 wins when the starting QB is out which is a huge drop
@@ballinforlife9u have been sniffing Brady's jock too much, go out for some air,
@@ballinforlife9 Bad comparison . Had Brady played in 2008, it is still very unlikely that they have another undefeated regular season, and you don’t know that they would have made it back to the Super Bowl.
@@ilivewithinmymeans5412 in 2008 they had the same roster as 2007 and won only 11 games where as they won 18 the year before which is a 7 game drop off
@@ballinforlife9 No team has “the exact same roster” 2 years in a row. Even if they did, it is still highly unlikely that they would have went 18-0 again in 2008.
This is so easy. Belichick won all his Super Bowls with Brady as his quarterback, and has done nothing but struggle since he left. Brady went to a completely different team and head coach, and won a Super Bowl immediately at an advanced age. Compare that to former Redskins head coach Joe Gibbs, who won his 3 Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks.
Dont even put joe gibbs in there, he coached long time ago... belichick spanked his a** so bad it was awful
Warren Sapp had the best argument, hands down. Never thought about it, but he's 100% right.
A better question would be wtf happened with all that money Brett?
think he returned it
Belichick=Strategy | Brady=Morale
Strategy without good morale = Defeat
They needed each other.
Favre is having trouble putting sentences together because he’s getting used to wearing his new clothes he stole from a homeless person
No coaches played pro ball? Doug Pederson did, Bill Cower, Dan Campbell, Frank Reich, lots of assistants have. I don’t understand Marshall’s point.
Brady made Belichick and the Patriots SB champs. Period.
He came off as small and petty. “They don’t allow that.” Look at all the GMs that played. Honestly it’s not rocket science. It’s just football if more players were interested then they would do it.
Belichick is 83-101 without TB12 and 249-75 with TB12.
Enough said.
Bingo. There is so much evidence to prove that TB is the man. BB is an overrated clown.
@@adkads27 Nonsense.
It was both. The first three super bowls they won with defense. They had a top five defense every time they won a championship. Belichick was also the first to realize and exploit the tight end potential to the max. He gets some credit. The last 3 were more on Tom but he still had a great defense. He enforced the patriot way
Bill’s genius won them against the Rams! TB threw to Gronk at the key moments but Bill also gets credit for drafting Gronk.
Defense plus Brady being clutch during the final drives. The defense gave up a touchdown with 2 min or less to go in the first 5 SBs
The second Super bowl was not won with defense. They gave up 29 points and Brady threw for 354 yds. and 3tds and led the game winning drive to set up a field goal to win the game. The defense gave up game winning drives in both Super bowl losses to the Giants. The only thing that saved them from giving up a game winning game winning drive vs. the Seahawks was the fact that Pete Carroll made the dumbest call in Super bowl history. The defense also played one of the worst performances in Super bowl history giving up 41 points to a backup quarterback vs Philadelphia who by the way never punted the entire game. Apparently the defense wasn't all that great. They also gave up 31 pts in the second half to Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs in the AFC championship which Brady won with a game winning drive in overtime. Apparently the defense was not nearly as great as everybody thinks.I don't see how everybody can just overlook the fact that Belichick has been a total loser without Brady. We're talking about a 12 year sample size.
Where do you get the full episode?
I said this the other day! Bill set the rules and work ethic, Brady followed them and because Brady succeeded under those rules and set the bar, everyone HAD to follow the example or they were gone, period. Didn’t matter who you were, if you didn’t buy in, they had ZERO use for you.
That's all fine and dandy but you still needed Brady to come up with the clutch plays on the field. Without Brady Belichick would've been out as coach after a couple years
Belichick won the 2001 AFC Championship Game with Drew Bledsoe as QB instead.
Bledsoe was traded to Buffalo, where he did not go to the playoffs.
Defense wins championships, and Bill Belichick is a defensive genius.
Damn this whole video was on point and finished up strong.
If you answered that Brady was more important than you need to extend it to the next logical question if Brady was successful question was it because of himself or his teammates? The answer is all of them. It’s a team sport. Excellent coaching + excellent players = success. Brady would have been just above average on a crappy team. He’d have lesser talent to play with, I clean pocket to pass from consistently and that is NOT a slam on him. It’s a slam on the crappy team that brought him down.
Well you are mostly true, but remember other teams also have great coaches, superstar players but end up not winning during that time. So what is the main difference between those teams and Patriots? I think you'll get the reason. "Brady would have been just above average on a crappy team" bruh you need to have a better search engine for that because the history shows otherwise.
To be kind to Bill...90% Brady 10% Bill. Bill is a great defensive coordinator. Sucks as a Head Coach and even worse as a GM.
Brady wouldn't have all those rings without the Patriots loaded defense and Corey Dillon running the ball. Dillon should be in the HOF.
@@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8om In 2002 Brady and the Pats missed the playoffs despite Brady leading the league in TD's and being 4th in passing yards. The Pats could have 4-Peat if it wasn't for Belichick's atrocious defense that season.
Really? Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Favre were/are all great quarterbacks. If it was MOSTLY Brady at 90%, then why have those 4 great QB's won fewer SuperBowls *COLLECTIVELY* with their coaches, than Tom Brady with Belichick? And don't tell me that Brady was THAT much better than some of those guys.
Belichick sucks as a head coach?? Now THAT is the GOAT of stupid comments. Seriously.
@@jamesanthony5681 If you don't mind me butting in actually I'll let Joe Montana tell you that Brady was much better than all those QB's
Joe Montana interview with CBS Sports on Tom Brady.
He not only called Brady the greatest QB ever but 'Definitely' the greatest player in NFL history.
*Joe Montana admits that Tom Brady is 'definitely' the best NFL player ever
The Hall of Fame quarterback settles the debate once and for all*
Ray Lewis, Deion Sanders ,and about 100 guy's up next.
So this is what it comes down to either you know more than Joe about football or Joe knows more than you.
@@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8om
Bill Belichicks resume without Tom Brady as his starting QB ⬇
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs
2001 (0-2) After Week 2 with Brady 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
Care for Brady's resume without Bill?
spoiler alert
14,600 yards passing and 110 TD's passing. Best in the NFL over a 3 year period (2020-2022)
SB Winner,SB MVP,
Is that Jordan Peterson in the back!?!?!😂😂😂
Favre's concussions are showing.
Brady made Billy boy!😂
How many Johnny Foxboroughs have they had since Brady left?
The only intelligent move Belichick ever made was keeping Tom as Patriots QB when Drew Bledsoe had recovered from injury.
Bill has always said that players win and coaches lose the games!
It’s not trouble winning without Tom. It’s trouble winning without any good qb
Ok Marshall Faulk…. We don’t know that, because they don’t allow that.
Jason is right on, I believe money will destroy sports
How can you still have Brety Favre on after what he did? No shame. Pathetic.
I didn't understand what bret Favre trying to say😂😂😂
Shula had more wins & only 2 losing seasons of 33... BB had 8 losing seasons. And, the only category BB leads is Superbowls.
Shula had 2, but lost several of his best players to USFL right after the 17-0 season. And still almost went all the way... 11-5 / 10-6...
Shula rules!!!
Shula only won 2 championships.
@@ilivewithinmymeans5412
Yea we know. But he lost best R/B Larry Csonka, and Paul Warfield the best receiver in the game, among others to the WFL -for nothing. And still made the Championship game next 2 years w/o them. ‘Could have been’ 3-4 straight S. Bowls!
@@LIBlurrHe also had Dan Marino fall into his lap, but still could not find a way to win any with him.
Coach B had a solid foundation. He's always said there's 3phases of the game. O, D, & ST. That's where he separated himself from others.
Pay attention to what Marshall says. And as far as Favre is concerned, go to the fridge a get a beer.
It was Belichick in the beginning, then it became Brady. Brady let Bill be Bill, Bill didn't let Tom be Tom, and that's why he left for Tampa.
Didn't they give up only a fg v the la rams,
Jason Whitelock is a wise man.
Lol it's Tom all day Bill hasn't been good since Tom left
Tom Brady,Gronk, Edelman Danny, Hogan, White all left not just Brady let that sink in your head
Belichick has ONE playoff win as Head Coach without Tom Brady, in 10 years. Think about that...
Brady was more important, although you don't win 6 Superbowls without a tremendous coach. Both are GOATs.
Brady was just built different though. One example is the story about Brady messaging the offense group chat on their days off with film clips of the next opponent's defense. For example "See how the nickel corner shades inside when the offense is in this formation, @Welker you can do a shimmy release and be open every time. @Woodhead we'll need you to chip and release this way".
Well said
QB is the most important position in sports aside from a hockey goalie . A QB can't play defense , a goalie can literally win a game for his team . My Vikings lost Kirk Cousins and our season ended that day .
How can these “professionals” attribute the success of a team on the head coach? This is mind boggling. Tom Landry is not Tom Landry if his quarterback is Gary Hogeboom. Belichick is not Belichick if his quarterback is Mac Jones. What a joke!
I love how they’re bashing Bill!! They played off each other!! Tom doesn’t win 6 rings without Bill and Bill doesn’t win 6 without Tom!! END OF DISCUSSION!!
Those who want to sit on the fence would say that as a QB Brady was the driving force of the offence. As a defensive coach Belichick was the driving force of the defense Going along with this fence sitting narrative, it would still be the case that Belichick is greater than brady because while QB is the most important individual position, overall defense wins championships I know the argument is that Brady is better cause he has one ore ring than Belichick. First of all that's not technically true. Belichick was a coordinator for the Giants and has 8 rings total. But secondly Joe Flacco has one more ring than Dan Marino.
One more ring in tampa is not enough to eclipse the fact that Belichicks specialty was more crucial, and if you think brady was more important anyway then that's a valid opinion, but that just means you're opposing the idea of giving a coach more credit than a QB in any case. Not just this one. Understandable point of view, but if you don't think in this situation the coach mattered more than the QB, you'll NEVER see a case where you think that.
why does Bill have a .400 record without Brady and .750 won with him ?
70% Brady / 30% Belichick
Look at Bill's stats before Brady and after Brady. That says it all. There is no system.
Way to go Urlacher, throwing Cutler under the bus. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bob Grier was great, also bringing in Vrabel that same off-season. The defense had been good. Willie/Ty/Teddy & then drafted Seymour.
Incredible round table man I miss Marshall Faulk
BeliCheat rode the coattails of Tom Brady for 20 years. Without Tom, he has 84 wins and 104 losses (0.447). Since Tom left for Tampa and his 7th Super Bowl win, BeliCheat has 29 wins and 39 losses (.426). Tom always gave up salary for a better team and Tom was always the best player on the field. BeliCheat couldn't beat an egg without him. Just watch.
Players win games not coaches. Belichick has done nothing outside of Brady.
How do he know what Bill said to Tom? SHUT UP!!!
Everyone can see now that BRADY Is no longer playing with the PATRIOTS that it was BRADY all the way. When BRADY was with the PATRIOTS they were winning. When BRADY left the PATRIOT Winning games left when BRADY did. So to me it was BRADY all the way.
Brady proved to everybody who was most valuable to the Patriots dynasty when he went to a mediocre Tampa Bay Bucs team and won it all his first year there. Not to take anything away from Belichick but it really shouldn't even be a debate in my honest opinion. Brady would've been successful with any good NFL coach period
MARSHELL FREAK'N NAILED IT ....ALL !!!
well that broke down rather quickly "The ONLY Brady-Belichick Debate" became "He takes a Hit"
The more important person is always the person who is playing. As a patriots fan bill is the best coach ever. But no he is not more important then the person playing the game.
Urlacher did a good job hyping up and defending Cutter as a player and now suddenly "we never had a great quarterback" 🤷♂️
He also seemed to really have loved Tebow?
Did you expect him to throw Cutler under the bus? Urlacher isn't an AB type of player, he has class.
@@Zippadeedoodaa-nt8om Mindreader and a fan-boy?
All the greatest coaches had great quarterbacks
Marshall at the end basically explained how the entertainment is set up in the NFL... no former players that know how to win games, and do the best(maybe boring) thing to win, like running the ball more than 10 times a game. Instead the decision makers in the league are focused on entertaining matchups and results, and coaches "schemes" are more like scripts aimed to catch the attention of the fantasy football and/or reality tv fan.
The coach sets up the system and IF the QB buys into the system then the whole teams buys in and you have a winner.
Hey Guys, don't forget Mathew Stafford..... Very tough man and I suggest he took more hits than all NFL QB's (Brady, Peyton, Brett, and Rogers put together.
It was the ultimate meeting of minds. They both only cared about winning.