EV v petrol challenge: Reacting to your angry comments about our road trip!
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- It was bound to happen - commenters were frothing at the mouth to offer their 2c about our recent EV v petrol road trip from Melbourne to Sydney (watch the video here if you haven't yet... • 900km (560 mile) elect... ). Now it's time to pull out some of our favourites and respond to the critics.
Skip Ahead:
Intro: 00:00
Don’t add weight 01:07
Wrong cars 01:53
It’s a BMW ad 04:12
We did the trip wrong 05:12
Did it for the clicks 09:33
We charged it wrong 10:08
We chose the wrong route 13:39
Outro 15:30
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#ev #roadtrip #reaction - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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Some people on the internet will just complain without watching the video
Great video Paul and totally agree with what you said. Please do a similar test between a Hybrid and Diesel…should be easier to find the same model in both forms…keep up the great work 😊
Women....women will complain about everything 😆...and mechanics!!.. there i said it 🤣
Most people not some.
*Most.
Arguing with idiots is a futile exercise
No it's not! :)
But very funny..
arguing with a self appointed expert is futile
@@manofleisure75😂
@@manofleisure75😂
So many couch experts, its always great to read comments as it is hilarious
@@simonmiller5118you just can't let it go, can you?
@@simonmiller5118Jesus Christ give it a rest, you just know in yourself that it’s cheaper then mate. When you start your own car review site you can set it straight.
@@simonmiller5118 You just proved that you have no idea to measure fuel economy.
@@simonmiller5118 or if you are like me my home solar produces enough to cover my EV completely and then some - it's free (or technically the 5c per kwh feed in tariff I forego) = $5.35
@@adickman1959 Why - it's perfectly legitimate. I am a regular Blue Mountains (Sydney) - Melbourne - Sydney commuter and I start from home with a car charged 100% from solar - my whole trip to Melbourne cost me $49 including the cost of filling at the start, and it takes exactly the same amount of time as my previous ICE car - I take 10 1/2 hours no matter what car I am in - I stop 2 times each way to eat and use the restroom - charge time is zero as it doesn't even add a minute to the trip.
WTF? I thought it was a brilliant review. Really enjoyed it. Good job guys.
Absolutely agree with all your statements paul, people just dont watch the video fully or just look at the headlines. Appreciate that you actually respond and in someway shutdown all those critics!
The real world can be very different from what we read in the brochures at the dealerships, luckily there are people who invest time and effort to show us the simple reality. Thank's for your work!
Thanks for watching!
I'm glad you didn't artificially weigh down the car. That way it shows the tradeoff in design.
@@simonmiller5118 totally agree. Such a weird suggestion, even if they didn't end up doing it.
I actually just said, if that's what people wanted, add an extra 600 litre fuel tank to the combustion vehicle. Be about the same weight and rude not to.
@@mini_steveyeah and run it off ethanol you made on your farm like in the 20’s
@@simonmiller5118 its just an idea, which they dont do
Hope all these upset and angry people (watching free content) find happiness in 2024 ❤
As an owner of a Volvo Ev I 100% agree that an Ev can’t be bet for local commuting and charging from home. For longer distances I’ll take my LR3 V8 over the Volvo every time! Great comparison video Carexpert!👍🏻
Saving the planet much?
Agree, own both, use the Model Y about 90% of the time, costs us next to nothing to run, better and more enjoyable to drive etc. But any trips longer then 300km and we just use the petrol vehicle.
@@Kashchey1 no, but after trying a few long trips in the volvo and towing our camper with it concluded that LR3 was the go for long distance and towing the camper. Using both for what they are most efficient at can’t be any worse for the planet! Didn’t buy the ev to save the planet but primarily to save me money.
@@kingjnr2677 Genuine question, how do you save money when the EV is 20-30-40% more expensive then similar size ICE car? The cheapest Tesla model 3 here in UK is £40K, Model 3 Long Range is £50K, LR price is equivalent of fully loaded Skoda Superb and fuel for 5 years. For people like me without the ability of home charging, combined with the high EV purchase price, EV's are a no no. My current diesel estate(Hyundai i40) gives me 800miles(1300km) motorway miles per fuel tank. Cheers.
@@Dolph681 the only reason I could make the costs work is we have a novated lease scheme in Australia which means I saved on not having to pay GST, fringe benefit tax along with bundling all the running costs etc together for one payment taken off before tax. Won’t work for everyone but ended up being way cheaper in my circumstances, unfortunately won’t be much help for yourself in the Uk. If I was still back in Scotland I definitely wouldn’t have been buying an Ev.
By not counting the initial full “tanks” and instead do in reverse and fill up on way you have skewed this result in a big way. A lot of people in Melbourne are on EV electricity plans. Where they can charge overnight for cheap or even during 11am-2pm for free. Even if overnight at 8c kWh it would have cost $8 to fill the bmw from 0-100%. That would significantly change the results and put the EV way ahead as you would only need to add the Tarcutta charge to work out the costs to get to Sydney. Making it less than the cost of the petrol version to get from Melbourne to Sydney. Same thing in reverse. Whilst it costs more to go from Sydney to Melbourne when you get home you can charge it back up at very little cost.
So the real costs that you failed to mention would be ICE return trip $235.75.
EV. 406kWh for return trip. 100% charged at home on off peak plan $8.
Fast chargers 226kWh at 65c per kWh some chargers cheaper but let’s go with normally most expensive. $146.90
And then finally arrive home at 20% and charge 80% at home $6.40.
So total EV cost $161.30
So $74 cheaper for the EV by using a real world example instead of the strange scenario you did of filling up with a fast charger at home, which is not a realistic example of how majority of EV users would charge their car.
Yes, agree. It keeps being an argument in our family. We have a new KIA EV6 AWD. It is used 95% for trips to work and run around locally. We have large solar and in just over 3000km it cost us $13.55 in "fuel" since we wanted to test a fast charger, so we knew that we were familiar with it if needed. I informed my wife that on a longer trip (more then 500km round trip) I prefer to take our old 2006 Toyota Camry. Same or less fuel cost then our EV6....zero range anxiety.
I think the trip was almost a worst case scenario though - yes it happens, yes you should be aware this can happen, no issues with that.
As a regular Sydney (Blue Mountains) - Melbourne - Sydney driver with a home charger, all I can say that I swapped an Audi A4 for a Tesla Model 3 and the trip is basically identiacal in an EV vs the ICE car for me at least - I start with a 100% charge at home and still stop 2 times each way for late breakfast and early dinner for the same amount of time I normally would, (except plugging in is quicker than refeulling, paying and moving my car) - the charge time is essentially zero as it doesn't add to the trip time - I am eating / using the restroom anyway regardless of what type of car I am driving. Basically the trip takes me around 10 1/2 hours each way no matter what I'm driving.
I might be the exception rather than the rule but because I have a home charger and a big solar setup my home charging is free but technically costs me the .05c per Kwh foregone feed in tariff.
100% battery at home , cost $2.87
75% charge added Gundagai cost $29
45% charge added Euroa cost $18
top up to 100% at hotel $0
Total cost $49 = around 25L of fuel at $1.96 = 36km per litre or 2.77L per 100km
If I needed to use a public charger in Melbourne it would be an extra $20 so (to get back to Euroa) = 25.7km per L or 3.89L per 100 - can't do this even in a RAV 4 hybrid.
Great comment mate thanks!
Great comment! I 100% agree with you! My take is that an EV is mostly much cheaper, but can be equally expensive on long road trips in a worst case scenario. In addition if you have a Tesla the superchargers are more reliable, range is more predictable (less range anxiety) and cheaper.
Great summary.
That was exactly my view on the original video comment that Paul spoke about on this video regarding charging at hotels and Air Bnb.
Realistically, all drivers including EV owners would charge or fill up and opt for the cheapest form available throughout the journey from charging at home to arriving at the final destination.
It would be similar to if drivers were able to fill up petrol for a few cents/ltr at home before starting their journey I'm sure they would most likely opt for that option 100%. Or if they found a service station offering petrol 15c cheaper than other near by stations I'm pretty sure they would be queuing for the cheaper station.
Regarding Paul's comment about hotels that's fair but, realistically, people again would opt for the cheapest option. When I drove to Surfers, our hotel didn't have a charger but I still opted for the cheapest charging station- a free public one! lol, as they are still available at the shops and malls or at least charge at a public charger that only charged low rates while I shopped or played golf.
I too have both an ICE and EV and I find it is cheaper to run the EV anually charging at home as my daily driver, even if you factor in the couple of long family road trips I might do in the year. The savings negates any possible cost of a long road trip.
I also find travel times similar as when I drive my petrol car on long road trips. As I would fill up and take stops where there's McDonalds near by and end up having a bite to eat and stay around 30mins before moving on.
you are assuming that a charger will always be available and servicable. I've seen the new Pheasants Nest upgrade south of Sydney and watch as all the chargers were in use and many electric vehicles parked up with people waiting. At some point, if EV's take off in sales, the instant drive up and charge will not be the case. You may have to wait another hour or so, depending where you are in the queue. Then I await complaints about charge rage, where people squat on chargers. Its going to be an interesting evolution.
@thesolver1970 I drive a Model Y using the most reliable Tesla Super Charger network that's constantly expanding every year and are also making several available to non Tesla EVs to use around the country. I didn't experience much wait time during my recent road trip to Surfers from Sydney over Xmas an NYs, as I feel EV owners are realising it's much faster to charge upto 80% and continue their journey. As charging speeds dramatically slows after 80%. And the car's navigation will tell you when you have enough charge to reach your next destination and stop charging also.
I drive model 3 and the comparison video was fantastic in my opinion!
My friends wanted to buy an EV just because I have it and some others have it. I went through lots and lots of calculations to justify the extra cost it involves buying an EV to a comparable petrol car. The video shows the limitation of an EV that future buyers need to understand. Thank you Paul and the team for an amazing video!
If cost is important to you, why did you buy a brand new BMW?
Agreed. I drove a Tesla in California recently and honestly charge anxiety was a massive issue for me as I entered pretty rural areas and I charged it to 100% at extra inconvenience to avoid problems
@someyoutuber99 understand that the Melbourne to Sydney drive that was undertaken is between two cities, each exceeding population 4.5million, about 500 miles apart. The connecting Hume Highway is amongst the most travelled on the globe. There is zero excuse for range anxiety on this trip. He passed numerous opportunities to recharge, well before choosing to push his luck to 2%. He was either dumb, or dishonest.
@@petergosney6433I live in Australia and have driven on this route a lot, can’t speak to how easy it is to do in an EV. In my scenario specifically I drove from SF to Yosemite and back, this is also quite a well travelled route and having a diesel would have been easier / more convenient / cheaper. That’s not to shit on EV but just stating a pure subjective experience I had.
@@someyoutuber99 I appreciate your reasoned response. Many do not seem to comprehend the relative immaturity of EVs and their supporting infrastructure. By comparison, ICE infrastructure is superb. What rankles is “tests” like this that imply that the EV world will never catch up. I’ve driven mine across the Nullarbor, just to see how hard it was. It was tedious, but not hard. Soon, (within 2024) it will be no more tedious than a diesel is. I’ll explain if you ask.
Presumably that was a rental car. Hertz is trying to dispose of 20,000 EVs (many of them Teslas) in the US because renters avoid them due largely to range anxiety. Servicing costs have been too high. Hertz stock holders will pay dearly for the virtue signalling that drove the decision to buy these cars. The stock price has almost been halved over the last year.
@@johnoneill1011 soooo much BS. Hertz overestimated the demand for EVs, it is true; but the same could be true of any sector of the rental market. Consumers are concerned about range, true; because that is the way media sells them. But Hertz is not fire-selling. They are re-adjusting fleet proportions to fit public demand through normal rotation, they never hold rental cars longer than 2 years anyway. As for servicing, EVs need virtually zero servicing in their first 2 years. There is concern throughout the auto industry (globally) over repairing damaged EVs, but this is because cars with high voltage systems require proper training (i.e. qualifications) of repair workers, and the repair industry is not yet up to speed. This is a simple supply-and-demand issue that will correct itself, over time. Finally, Hertz stock prices have halved since the pandemic, in common with many industries that were similarly tested. Nothing particularly to do with going too hard in one type rental vehicle. The rest is hype.
The purpose of your original video was very clear and thoroughly enjoyable. It’s clear that people don’t watch the video in full. It was very informative and gave a real world example irrespective of car. I’m someone who does drive down the Hume from Canberra to Melbourne a few times a year, and my ICE car is perfect for this. My fear of switching to an electric car is being stuck at a charger behind a number of other cars for hours adding more hours to a long trip, when my Macan can do the trip on less than a tank if 98.
Also… Macan EV gets released this week! Maybe a Macan ICE / EV if they remain on sale together :)
A lot of keyboard warriors who think they are "experts" with no credentials. Keep doing what you are doing Paul and team!
With the reduction in petrol and increase in charger pricing it would be interesting to see you recalculate with the current rates.
Clearly the gap would widen but it would be interesting to know by how much.
Paul, the fact that you are able to maintain a sense of professionalism and joviality with comments from absolute f**kwits is astonishing...you have my respect!
It'd be good to repeat with more ev / ice pairs to see if it's a consistent outcome. MG HS, Hyundai Kona etc are both ev and ice options
Haven't watched the test yet but this ep sadly seems to confirm to me that level of intelligence in Australia is on the wane.
Agree, it’s all the brain dead trendy fuckheads driving them
The level of intelligence is dropping through the basement all over the world, which is shown in the fact that most people believe that Carbon, a gas that is VITAL to life on earth, is somehow the opposite and that unless we actually remove carbon from our atmosphere, we’re headed for an existential crisis. Add to this myth of Anthropomorphic Climate Change, the following; Too many people/not enough land, too many people/not enough food, the world is hotter than it has ever been, the moon landing was a hoax, the earth is flat, Covid-19 came from bats, Cv-19 came from human invention, Cov-2 is a real pathogen, Saddam Hussein really did have WMD’s (sic), the twin towers were not brought down by controlled demolition charges, Jeffrey Epstein killed himself, and JFK was killed by a lone gunman called Lee Harvey Oswald.
The simple fact is (as Konstantin Kisin said in his brilliant speech at Oxford; people who can’t afford to be ‘climate warrirors’ and be anti-Greenhouse Gases, Fossil-Fuels, etc, are going to live their lives the way they can, WHATEVER way they can and there’s absolutely NOTHING anyone can do to stop them doing so. Nothing morally acceptable anyway. The whole NEED for EV’s is a based on a preposterous falsehood and is driven by the people who attend Davos every year to decide what the proletariat will be subjected to next. People who you wouldn’t leave your kids with for half a minute, get together and make all sorts of declarations about Climate Change that they then parlay into reasons why we MUST get rid of cows and other animals that fart too much, etc. They also insist that more and more laws are passed to make things ‘FAIRER’ and more ‘EQUITABLE’, so that we now have peolle of adult age who cannot answer the question; ‘What is a Woman?’
I had a conversation a few years back, with a man who seriously believed that there are more than two sexes. He said Gender, but as any intelligent person knows, ‘gender’ is a linguistic term that has absolutely NOTHING to do with sex (either the act, or the biologocal designation). It wasn’t until then that I realised that Orwell’s nightmare has come to actuall existence and people will argue that 2+2=5 with the absolute certainty that this is the truth and that all mathematicians who disagree are racists.
I’m actually curious, perhaps Toyota is right in asserting the hybrid as the right product for transitioning to lower whole of product life co2 emissions.
Battery 🔋 technology is improving
Hybrids also do their best work around town where regenerative braking comes into play. On the open road at a steady speed, you are essentially carrying around the battery and electric motor for no real benefit either. However I agree that battery technology is improving but this test was testing what is available now.
Toyota make a hell of a lot of money of hybrids so of course they are going to say that. I doubt Toyota is factoring in the environmental impact on the planet of mining and transport of fossil fuels
LOL this is a good video Paul!
Maybe you can do a video on the Hyundai Konas? Petrol/Hybrid/Electric
That was my thought when he said petrol and EV versions of the same car were rare.
The price comparison between the versions is quite startling too.
Unfortunately people out there have little knowledge about the outback road conditions. I really enjoyed the test you guys did. So I am still true believer the hybrid system is still the best option car to run
Thanks for the additional comedy content to add to your original comparison video. I have just found and subscribed to this channel. The content is fantastic and the comedy of comments is the cherry on the top.
Excellent choice to point these out like you have and "cleared the air". Keep up the great work and looking forward to future content!
Cheers.
Great to see this feedback session Paul! I'm still not personally sold on an EV as a vehicle for those longtrips, of which I make a few, specially with electricity continuing to rise. However, the Tesla Model Y vs RAV4 hybrid with both a Summer and a Winter test comparison, would be great. Add to that, double up that test with 1) an Urban-only testing component and 2) A long "family" trip full with luggage and passengers, maybe as the same return leg from Sydney back to Melbourne.
I drive a Tesla but I agree with you 100%. Long drive in a EV is always stressful
Range anxiety disappears when there are as many fast chargers as there are petrol stations. Prices come down when there are enough competing networks vying for your business. Destination chargers (not even fast chargers) are what is needed most and not just in shopping centres.
@@tw0centsworth274but we live in the world today and the test was completed in todays' world. We are not there yet so we have to acknowledge where everyone is at with respect to range anxiety.
@@tw0centsworth274even if there were more charging stations, the length of time it takes would be problematic on long trips.
My old diesel can take on 1300km of range in a few minutes. For an EV that could take hours.
You would also need a very large number of charging points to avoid long queueing times.
@@alanjm1234nope. Charging is only getting faster. V3 Supercharger charges my Tesla Model 3 P in 10 minutes and it’s only going to get faster from there.
Agree, we use our EV probably 90% of the time, but any long trips of over 300km+ and we just use the petrol vehicle
Tesla Superchargers uptime is polar opposite to that of 3rd party chargers so you can’t say road trips are anxiety inducing with wondering if chargers are working. This just simply isn’t the case with a Tesla.
Would love to see a future comparison on tuned vehicles.
With tuning diesel vehicles mainly dual cabs being so popular now. Next time you have a trailer dyno would be interested to see how a tuned 4cyl would go against a stock 4cyl, tuned 4cyl vs a stock V6 and tuned V6 vs stock V6 when towing, performance driving and off-road. So people can factor in a possible tune when considering their purchase.
Agree with your points. There’s pros and cons to both EVs and ICE vehicles. People need to let their dogmas have a rest. I think you summed up their strengths and weaknesses and people need to accept real world testing. This is coming from someone who has a Model Y and Ranger Raptor so I appreciate both platforms.
No ev cars are not the answer they are a con pushed by globalists
In our experience, being a bit older, the days of driving till you drop have gone, the EV long distance trip dovetails perfectly with our lifestyle, we don’t care about stopping as it matches our need for sustenance and emptying our bladder etc, usually 1 stop for the day and charge at overnight stop, works out to 5 hours more on a trip than ICE from Sunny Coast to Cairns, take a chill pill and enjoy the ride. 😜
Speak about yourself with distances. I am 70 & still do 1000k drives. It was only a month ago I drove a rental truck from Sydney airport to Hervey Bay in a day.
I think what most people with this type of comments "who drives xxxKM without stopping for a pee break/lunch/dinner break?" fails to understand is...
with an ICE car, they can choose to stop or choose to go.
with an EV, you are FORCED to stop
do you see the difference?
Not all of us are soft champ..
Thanks for producing such engaging and informative content! The debate is not over yet. Hope to see more comparisons with different cars.
I thought it was a reasonable real world comparison. As he said most people don't have time to spend an hour planning the route and taking painful detours
Well handled Paul. I liked your test and just remember, for every 1km of road there are 2km of ditch so there is always going to be more polar views than the middle of the road. Next time just do the test where the ICE car just leaves the EV behind and video how much fun with the extra time on their road trip. Or even better, throw a caravan behind a car/ute and see what the costs are for a car/van vs EV with hotel accomodation.
Most people are not looking to tow a caravan or take their car off sealed roads. Buying that functionality when you don't need it leads to the purchase of larger, heavier and more inefficient vehicles. The people who need that can get their information from specialised sites and forums.
Always enjoy your reviews and comparisons, isn’t it funny how people now days cannot listen to other people opinions/views without getting worked up if the outcome doesn’t suit their own.
Great video! Some people just have to complain about everything. BTW, on the topic of efficiency, having a dedicated EV platform doesn't give you more energy efficiency. It can give you more space efficiency and design freedom, but efficiency doesn't really change that much outside of potential weight savings which we haven't seen realised yet in most cars. Heck, some of the most efficient cars on the road are things like the OG Hyundai Ioniq, which can easily average 115-120 wh/km.
False
A very good, real world comparison.
There is no doubt that EVs are most likely the most efficient vehicles in an urban environment but what a lot of urban dwellers can't seem to get their head around is that there are actually millions of us living in country areas where longer trips are a fact of everyday life.
Eg: An evening earlier this week was from nere in Northern Vic down to Castlemaine, the Dandenongs then return -- 600kms. Last week, down to Melbourne for medical appt then return -- 500kms. A couple of weeks ago, drive to Sydney and return (in a day...) -- 1,600kms.
An EV just is not capable of doing this practically.
Well done, CarExpert.
This is actually funny. Take this video and change the use case. In my regio, with plenty chargers you don’t charge till 100%, but… Rapid chargers are twice the price you pay in Australia. It is usually between 0,75€ and 0,97€ per kWh.
On the other hand: at home it’s about 38 cents and at the office 29 cents. So for a road trip an EV costs about 3 times as much as a regular car, but for local usage the price is similar. Why do we go electric on big scale? The government punishes ICE cars massively.
Great video Paul! I spent quite some time last night reading many of these comments and they were indeed amusing. Most missed the point of the exercise and used it as a platform to voice their strong views. I see both sides of it. For example my father, 70 year old and retired took delivery of one of the first EQCs in the country and does lengthy road trips regularly. He and Mum are happy to plan their trip thoroughly and 3-5 hours driving a day is enough for them. He does often comment on the number of chargers that are broken though.
I myself have ordered a Volvo EX30 to replace our aging petrol powered Q3, which my wife drives locally (approx 8,000 -10,000km per year). However I cannot see myself in the near future replacing our main car, currently P400 Defender with a BEV (perhaps the new PHEV?), as unlike Dad, time is of the essence when covering long distances.
What you've most likely proven is that an electric vehicle is great for thoes who rarely venture too far from home or as a second car(my situation), however at this point in time for many Aussies, having access to a ICE vehicle for road trips is not only more convenient nut economically viable.
Loving your CZcams videos. Keep up the great work!
Just drove Sydney - Melbourne and return on the long weekend in our new BYD Dolphin.
Found the experience to be totally different to yours.
Charging was far cheaper than petrol. We avoided Tesla chargers as non Tesla drivers pay a hefty premium.
Tesla is 95c per kw whilst BP is 60c and Chargefox / NRMA is 45c.
Our cheapest charge was $11 and our most expensive $27.
We charged when we wanted to stop for food, coffee, toilets etc.
Despite being the long weekend, we did not have to queue for a charger anywhere.
No need to charge more often than that and previous experience with petrol cars had us fuelling just as often. The only difference being that our petrol refuels we’re always above $60.
Charging usually finished about the same time we finished eating. So no extra waiting time there.
Doing the sums, the same petrol trip in our Kona would have costed double in fuel.
Am I living on a different planet?
Or, unlike your video, avoiding Tesla chargers made all the difference?
Yep, already did all the calculations and research 2yrs ago and why i have a diesel for long trips and EV for a runabout around Sydney.
Fortunate enough to have this set up but can't be said for everyone elses circumstances.
No experienced EV driver would charge their car that way. We do a modest bit of planning, we use apps like ABRP, and we make sensible use of lower speed destination chargers.
It was a bold videp guys, hats off to you for doing it, it's a question many folk ask.
I work for CUPRA and I guess I would say I am rather fortunate that our Born is genuinely energy efficient in our experience, even on the highway - where it typically does about 90% of the range of what we tend to see in Urban driving.
But in no small irony there...our petrol CUPRA models are pretty darn efficient on yhe highway too!
To summarise somewhat, I'd estimate our Born would be slightly cheaper on highway or possibly break even, but the weight difference of the Born versus even the larger Formentor is a considerably smaller delta.
Only two cents to add to the BMW conversation, I must admit I was expecting the i7 to be a touch more efficient given the aero tech in the car...but I was even MORE impressed by the fuel efficiency of the mighty B58! A cynic would argue that it skewed the result more than expected, but one has to tip their hat to thst efficiency in a 2000kg+, large vehicle with a powerful engine, to get that 6.5-6.8L/100km is a spectacular result for the big Beemer, that's 4 cylinder efficiency!
Perhaps for a fun stick to the keyboard warriors for a follow up, perhaps a BMW 420i Gran Coupe and i4 eDrive35, or an X1 eDrive20 and X1 xDrive20? Maybe then they'd sook a lot less about how expensive the cars you got to drive were 😂😂
Keep up the gutsy Auto Journalism CarExpert team!
I would be interested in seeing the Rav4 hybrid and a Tesla model Y comparison.
I feel the 4.7L to 100km on the Rav would be higher as it would more than likely use the petrol motor at highway conditions (except overtaking or hill climbing)
Hi Paul,
Great video. I saw an article written by one of your employees in relation to this test, and the commentary it invoked. Polarising indeed.
As it happens, I had a discussion about EVs yesterday at a Volkswagen dealership while enquiring about the Tiguan R (which, by the way, apparently Australia is not getting a 2024 Tiguan R that reverts back to the more traditional physical buttons on the steering wheel).
In practice EVs are great for city driving, and I think a lot of people who do most - if not all - of their driving local to where they live have very good reason to consider the EV.
But I don't think any reasonable person could deny that - presently - an EV is a vehicle that you must treat with kid gloves. Anything more than a modest journey becomes an exercise in logistics and planning. Essentially, you're working for the vehicle, when in reality the vehicle is merely a tool that should be working for you.
For anyone that doesn't want to bend over backwards babysitting an EV, traditional internal combustion engines will continue to make sense until the EV proposition is similarly 'no fuss' in nature.
And as for me personally, someone who 5 to 10 times a year does a Canberra to Newcastle trip to visit family, hybrids make much more sense right now. They might be a halfway house, but the promise - no fuss driving, and the car continuing to work for you instead of you diligently toiling away for the car - is much more compelling.
VW has lost the plot.
Should also factor in the purchase price difference from the 2 … most likely pay for fuel for 10 years so the free charging is irrelevant
Neither car is affordable 350k to 400k. Not what the typical Aussie family drives
Hi Paul, totally agree with you. I live in New Zealand and government just introduced Road User Charges to all electronic vehicles here in Kiwiland. Like you said electricity is getting more and more expensive everyday as we speak and patrol up and down at this stage. Can’t see any long term advantages out of electric cars to be honest. Not to mention the reselling price of electric cars, probably all going to end up in an e-waste yard.
In my view, no real need to worry about these hate comments. As you said Paul, they are a funny bunch. Very passionate anti EV or pro EV.
As for me, EV works for me as a second car and loving it.
This is a really good study. So interesting that it is more expensive to drive an EV on long trips using public infrastructure. I started driving EV's 18 years ago, back in the grass roots days when it was only conversions, and although the power was cheap when making a trip using only powerpoints and 8 hour chargers, oh boy all the accommodation, food, shopping and other support for the three day trip to drive 3 or 4 hundred kilometres made it really expensive! Yes, good to point out though that home charging, especially if you charge during the day directly on solar, can make electricity costs quite reasonable. Thanks for your videos.
Any reason you drove instead of something like taking a plane?
I loved the comparison. It was meant to be a contest of equals, ie, the same car from the the same manufacturer, just with different drivetrains. To then say its not a fair comparison because the EV weighed hundreds of kg's more and so the ICE had to have additional weight loaded into it is ridiculous in the extreme. By that measure if you found any charging stations that were free, you'd then have to negate the ICE car's petrol costs because then the EV had the advantage. Thanks for this review of the comments.
Paul I love that you did this vid and called out the b/s comments for what they are! There should be two mandatory elements to enable comments on CZcams: 1) an IQ test indicating a way higher than average IQ; and 2) a requirement to have watched the entire video at 1x speed. Fail either of these and comments not enabled! 🤣
Thanks Paul and all the Team members to produce content like this, experiments and reviews and helping me learn a lot from them.
Great video Paul. All valid points. I also think one of the biggest issues in Australia the majority of EVs don't have a spare tyre, not even a space saver. Do you know if high temperatures >40 deg C have an effect on range? I've watched several videos about the issues with EVs in the USA in extreme cold during the last week.
In New Zealand they've finally started road user charges for EVs since they don't contribute via fuel taxes. It's charged at $76NZ per 1000km (~70AUD per 1000km, or $47US per ~600 miles). Just makes EVs even more expensive to run than petrol/hybrid vehicles.
Lol, great entertainment! Love your reviews Paul, but taking on the complainers is the best content yet 🤣
I also thought your hotel charging comments were very insightful. I wonder if we'll get to wireless charging like our phones now have, and register through a parking meter type setup???
With the final wrap up, I'd love to know what the additional costs total. You mentioned the additional upfront cost to purchase the ev, this would add to interest payments. The cost of rooftop solar and charger, probably more interest payed there as well. How does it all balance out at the end? How many years would it take me of ev use to come out in front? Am I better off purchasing a fuel efficient ice car and waiting till the infrastructure is built or should I pull the trigger on an ev. It's the financials that I'm trying to understand.
Please do the rav4 VS model. Y. I was considering to buy the Tesla but chose to buy the rav4 hybrid
Like everyone else in Australia 😂
Exactly, CarExpert should have done a comparison on cars are actually going to buy.
@@johnpeters4214 🤦♂️ that wasn’t the point.
@@johnpeters4214😂
That was a good comparison. I’d get an EV for around town but the work horse will always be a diesel ute. Can’t spend that much time on a charger and the range anxiety is real!
I think it was a fair and honest review and am surprised at some of the comments you received. People do trips just like this regularly, and normally with family in tow. It was also the strongest reason why Hybrids are the answer for Australian cars and families driving round town with the occasional country trip.
In NZ EVs will be charged a road user charge like diesels. A set dollar charge per 1000km. This is because petrol has this charge built in and diesel doesn't due to many off road uses. This tax was meant for upkeep of the road network.
Great review thanks Paul!
I do a Y and a Kodiaq, between Sydney and Brisbane and I agree with your results even when my car is thirsty. It’s unfortunate no one’s quite clear headed these days.
I watched a similar video in the UK and they came to the same conclusion. It’s obvious that electric cars cannot replace ICE. Personally I love herbs idea but until they can get 1000k’s+ out of a charge (actual not claimed) then I can’t see it happening. Why 1000k’s+- because it takes a lot longer to charge them than fill with petrol. If everyone has electric cars just think how big charging stations would have for be on busy highways- can’t just pop in for a few minutes to fuel up….
Governments are encouraging the transition to EV's not because they are better than ICE vehicles for all scenarios but that they release significantly more CO2 into the environment over the life of the vehicle, this point is not debateable. ICE vehicles can be replaced in nearly all circumstances the average person would face, but they maybe more inconvenient or in some cases more expensive to run. Your point is they can't be replaced without inconveniencing you; on a long trip, that is not the same. Also the policy is a transition to EV's, everyone or even the majority are not going to be driving EV's even in the medium term, currently there is no disincentive in Australia to buy an ICE vehicle and in some states now, there is little or no government incentives to buy an EV.
Thoughts on the depreciation cost of an EV vs comparable ICE? Other factors to consider are service costs, although some dealers/manufacturers offer capped price or 3 years free servicing. For me personally, I’ll replace our 2018 Skoda Kodiaq diesel for a similar model or even the hybrid version if Skoda fast track availability. Once the Tavascan is released, I’ll trade in the Formentor which doesn’t go on too many road trips and is mainly used around town.
There some valid point here. Why not use Kona? They have both ICE and EV versions, it’s a much more realistic Australian experience. EV’s are brilliant in the city, they lower the exhaust pollution, decrease Australia’s dependance on OS. However they are awful on the highway, especially if it’s a bit cold, or you have to travel outside the main arteries, range anxiety is a real problem, and YES I have an EV……But its for the city. We have a “touring” car for our holidays.
It was a brilliant review !! Buying an expensive EV car and not going to Australian outback's is not something everyone does. Would love to see comparison video between Tesla Model 3 & Y.
The comparison was interesting but maybe a different scenario for the next one that reflects how most people use their vehicles including an EV that is built on a dedicated EV platform compared to a normal petrol car. I don't think the cars need to be identical, just the same class and size of car. I think you should also take into account that people will usually charge at home are normal retail rates or even free with solar. The time taken to charge/recharge at the beginning and end isn't really something that would be included as you generally don't watch the car getting charged (unless you are into watching paint dry as a hobby).
The thing that the video really highlights is the price gouging of public EV charging,
A good follow up comparison would be 2 similar style cars, Ev v Ice doing general running around for a month and comparing running costs.
Incedently I owned a rav4 cruiser hybrid for 2 years and never ever got below 5.9l per 100.
I'm not sure what you mean by "never ever got below 5.9l per 100". Do you mean 5.9l/100km was the most frugal consumption you attained or the least frugal? Or, to put it another way, do you always get between 5.9 and zero or do you always get between 5.9 and infinity? Or to put it yet another way, is 5.9 the most economical consumption you've achieved? I know l/100km is the metric standard, but it's a pain in the neck.
@@SirGregoryFamilyCZcams yes that's correct...5.9 on average no matter how I drove or on what economy settings. 4.7 on the RAV4 is a myth.
Any follow up comparison would also need to take into account the initial costs. EVs generally cost far more, depreciation seems to be heavy and insurance is getting expensive.
Also some require a significant investment to facilitate home charging.
@@alanjm1234 Yep, it's all about the Total Cost of Ownership. It would be great if some reviewers would do the TCO calculations.
@@Cam-uo8ey In my 2021 Kluger Hybrid I'm getting 7 around the suburbs and 6 to 6.5 on highways. That's with cruise control on whenever possible and aircon always on. (I'm light-footed) Pretty good for a 2+ tonne car.
I loved the video but I will ask, will you be reviewing the 7 series and i7? I love your reviews on cars and I’d absolutely love to see one on the 7 series and i7
It was a great review, the ignorance and lack of awareness on both sides in the general public ICE vs EV knows no bounds! Well done for calling it out so gently.
The biggest concerns for me which weren't addressed above were :
1) The EV was filled at the end in Alexandria (Sydney) and the time and cost included. No mention of refilling the ICE at end - they only stopped once for 6 mins right?
2) both cars started at 100% but that fill cost was not included. The EV would be cheapest charged at home
Great follow-up video to a great test. I think you conducted the experiment logically and did the comparison well, just many people seem to be missing the premise of the video in the first place. Keep up the good work Paul and CarExpert team!
I think something that would be really interesting to see, would be a "city" comparison, again with these two same cars. It's probably hard to arrange, but, imagine borrowing these two BMW's, then do maybe 1000km of just "average" Australian commute, with home charging at available rates currently (many plans now offer an overnight 8c rate for a designated amount of hours) I think that could be a real eye opener.
Exactly! CarExpert needs to do this comparison
Just watched the video regarding the comments people made. Very interesting. I live in Canada and own a model Y like yours. About a year ago I took a trip of approximately 1500km. When I arrived home I totalled all the charging expenses and then did a calculation for a Kia Seltos using only the listed highway consumption. The difference was significant in favour of the model Y. Not to refute your findings but I believe electricity expenses in Australia are much higher and the BMW is not as efficient as the model Y. I bring this up because I don’t believe the BMWs were the best choice to illustrate cost comparisons between ice and BEV. You did however explain in your video how the choice came about. While I accept that, I’m not sure the results paint a realistic picture of the savings that could be achieved. Hopefully, with the installation of massive battery storage and renewable energy technologies electricity prices will drop.
does australia have per/km tax for ev's for road maintenace etc, if so was this included in the calculations
No tax yet, but may come in the future.
Definitely going to happen as governments will not accept the loss of tax that they collect as at present the tax is approximately 47 cents on every litre,it won’t get any cheaper running a Ev .
It will be coming 100%. Then you will see the true story of EV's. They will be worth FA. 🤣
As someone who likes a driving Holiday my biggest issue with EV's in Australia is if you see a sign to something you think looks interesting along your journey it makes it very hard to make that detour to see it with jeopardizing making it to your next recharge as A LOT if not most small towns do not have charging stations but the nearly all have a servo to get fuel, so you are very much stuck on your planned route and you are limited as to where the recharge stations are as to which way you plan your route
Great test and exceptionally well explained. EVs are certainly great for urban driving but unfortunately in Australia ICEs for long distance driving.
The best "reacting to comments" video I've ever seen pretty much, explained everything and didn't try to be funny about it
I think Model Y and RAV4 comparison would be a more useful one as most people will buy cars in these segments and not those expensive BMWs!! Looking forward to the video 🎉
Holly crap $400,000 on a 7 series ev.
I look forward to picking one up second hand for 80k in 2 years 🤣
Actually the 740i can start from still purely electrical, the alternator is situated in the transmission and thanks to the valvetronic system situated also on the exhaust camshaft the electric motor can spin the engine without any gas exchange in the combustion chamber, so basically it spins freely.
But it is just for short starts, not a true long range hybrid
Great response, Paul. But I think if you are an EV nerd like me and happy to do some intensive route and accommodation planning (yes, I know not everybody is interested in doing that), EV road tripping can be very affordable. Last February (yes, I know electricity prices have gone up since then, but that was when we did the trip), we did a fantastic road trip around South Australia (including the Flinders Ranges, Eyre and York Peninsulas) from Melbourne in a Model 3 Performance. Unfortunately, we had an issue on Kangaroo Island where our accommodation's charger was not working. We had to hire an ICE car for 3 days for that section of the trip (the accommodation kindly paid for the car hire). We paid $167.70 charging costs to travel 5,869 km in the EV and $86.34 in fuel costs to travel 575 km in the ICE car. That's 2.9c/km for the EV vs 15.7c/km for the ICE car. Oh, and $9.99 for windscreen fluid which was my first maintenance cost after 3 years of ownership of my Model 3.
Great comparison video on the BMW's. I fully understood what the comparison was for. We are all interested to know who is cheaper over highway distances. Thank you for the comparison, and sorry about the comments you received from so many people.
Drove a slightly longer trip in Norway, from Oslo to Finnmark, some 2200 kms. Car was a 2020 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid, no external charging. Fuel consumption divided by kilometers gave an average of 4.6 liters pr. 100 kilometers. Norway is a mountainous country with a lot of up and down mountains on the route. Total refueling time was approx 15 minutes, refuled 3 times on the road and 1 time when home. I refueled every time I reached half tank, if I've pushed it I could have done it with 3 refuelings. I did no planning for the trip except for booking hotel acommodation in advance. The range on a full tank is more than 900 kms in real life (954 stated by Toyota, won't get that in Norway). A gas or diesel driven car will go 2X+ the distance of any battery car.
New Zealand has announced they are adding RUCs (Road User Chargers) to EVs and Hybrids later this.
As someone who just 12months ago ran the numbers between buy an EV, PHEV, Hyrid and ICE car for a pretty long commute, I feeling very happy I bought an older petrol car ($6000 and get 6L/100km).
RUCs being added has reduced the cost savings by half, so the return on investment (would've been around $30,000 to get the range I needed) would be 8 years, which on a used EV is playing with fire as not only are replacement batteries an unkown cost, it's also unknown if they'll ever be available.
If I lived in the city I'd buy a used Leaf, for all other uses the cost saving argument is getting less compelling .
Yep, $74 per 1000km. Can't wait to hear the EV fanboys cry 🤣
Great comparison for a road trip, i tthink i will be sticking with my petrol /diesel car.
We recently went to New Zealand and did a 3 week road trip about 5,000km (beautiful country). We hired a Hyundai Ioniq hybrid, nice car and did very well on fuel cost. No way you can do a trip like this with an electric car.
A city vs road trip economy cost video would be great to see, and we would end up having the same comment section saga again!
Thanks for doing this follow up. I thought the results of the comparison were fairly expectable but some of the comments were making me start to question myself. My only remaining criticism is that if the only reason you didn’t add weight to the 740 was to not exceed GVM limit then you’ve missed the point that that would unreasonably skew the test - both cars needed to be carrying the same payload in order for the ‘same car different powertrain’ thing to be genuine.
Imagine having to respond to these nitwits. Paul you have my respect.
Personally I found the review fair and balanced. And an eye opener on how expensive public access charging is.
I’m curious as to how my BYD Seal Premium would stack up against the RAV4 hybrid. I previously owned a RAV4 Cruiser and it wasn’t getting 4.xL/100km on the freeway - more like 5.4L.
Also, my Seal is cheaper than the RAV4 Cruiser but similar in features. I’d even say that the Seal is more luxurious.
Perhaps the test should be Melbourne to Sydney return to smooth out factors such as headwinds and hills. Also, consider the cost of filling up both cars at the start, but be fair. The EV is very likely to be charged at home at the start, so provide a worst case cost for that.
Finally, planning 2-3 stops for Melbourne to Sydney is reasonable whether using an EV or not. And you ended up stopping a number of times for various breaks. And we are all encouraged to stop for at least 15 mins every two hours. Perhaps a test that has a 300km max segment with 30 mins to rest (and therefore charge) would be reasonable.
I think this is all very interesting, but perhaps most of the arguments are coming out of not agreeing on what the test should reasonably look like.
May be invite me to do this test. :-)
Interesting video. What did put me off a little was when you discussed handicapping the ICE with extra weight, why would you do that? Thats just an inherent advantage for the ICE. Just plain rediculous to suggest equaling weights from two proffesionals. We have 3 ICE and a Tesla Model Y LR. The Y replaced a Tiguan R-line. Based on 95RON since September when we got the Y, we have saved a huge amount, based on our driving. We charge at home, have Solar to offset. Now using Superchargers and Highway driving it's obviously going to change things as the costs can vary and you get less regen. Here in NSW there were rebates etc.. which made EV's a good choice. With our Y no servicing for 2yrs, no oil, coolant to top up so thats another saving. Still prefer my 2017 S3 though!
Great video Paul glad you addressed some of the silly comments. The only thing you have forgotten in the whole process is to factor in maintenance costs, 900km could be in some vehicles like my ICE 10% of the next service, a major service in my ICE could be $1200. So IMO the EV would probably win at this moment on overall cost.
Paul is a fantastic reviewer and I have never come across any bias whatsoever in all of his reviews. He is objective and speaks the facts.
I just watched your video in the BMW drive from Melbourne to Sydney and as far as I'm concerned you did this very well and no issues from me. I am a Tesla model S and Diesel 4x4 ICE driver, I know the limitations and advantages of the model S but it will not tow my caravan or boat 700km on one tank of dinosaur juice. Great videos gents
Yes I’d love to see a Model Y vs RAV4 comparison. Two of the best selling cars in the country. Both around town and some highway. With home charging for the Tesla.
Good on you for doing the comparison. Surprised no one has done another similar comparison. This is what most people want to know, rather planning a trip specifically planning for an ev.
That were a few similar tests, Check the what car in UK for example
I think it was a good test! i work in the car industry and keep up to date with these cars for customer advice. It would be challenging to find comparable cars. The things you bring up is something we see also and pass on. Range anxiety is a thing and the system at this stage for charging is not at the point people think.
Good on you, Paul. You're not stupid, you have tons more experience and knowledge than the armchairs experts.
The only criticism I had was that unless I missed it the EV charged at the end of the trip while the ICE didn’t so it wasn’t a fair comparison but I totally agree that public fast charging is expensive
Safety comparisons Paul! Show how heavier and unwieldy Utes and SUV drive in an emergency situation, compared to a sensible fit for urban roads car like a Golf or something similar.
Help educate the public in Australia, how good tires vs bad or the wrong tires affect driving, breaking, in the rain etc.
How do car modifications affect the drive, the safety and the car in general.
In one of your reviews you mentioned that one of the American Utes, I believe it was a RAM the front of the car came to your chest, and you’re a relatively tall bloke, how does that impact visibility on city roads, how much more dangerous is it for pedestrians and other participants on the road.
Your videos are entertaining and informative, the selection of cars is greats and you got charism and people listen to you, that carries some responsibility with it; some fun educational videos along the way would be a great addition.
Namaste!
My falcon one tonner is on bald 6 year old tires and she handled the road through the Flinders rangers AVG speed 140 like it was made for it. Also did the same trip in the Triton with new tires, AVG speed 130 and it was fine, because I know how to handle a vehicle at speed.
I thought it was a great comparison. Even cars on even playground. Keep up the good work.
good one Paul, should do more of these videos haha. your reviews are the best.