Every Warhammer 40K Army's Tournament Win Statistics - Who's Best in 10th Edition June 2024
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Let's do an updated tier list of all Warhammer 40K factions in 10th edition based on the tournament win rates...
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0:00 Intro
2:24 Weakest Armies
3:08 Deathwatch
5:05 Dark Angels
6:33 Space Marines
8:58 Adeptus Mechanicus
10:39 Tyranids
13:07 Adeptus Custodes
15:27 Lower-Mid Factions
16:03 Astra Militarum
18:33 T'au Empire
20:33 Chaos Knights
21:56 Aeldari
25:15 Leagues of Votann
25:45 Chaos Space Marines
28:08 Upper-Mid Armies
28:37 World Eaters
30:42 Death Guard
32:21 Chaos Daemons
33:58 Blood Angels
35:54 Imperial Knights
37:50 Black Templars
39:21 Strong Armies
39:51 Drukhari
42:03 Adepta Sororitas
44:06 Necrons
46:20 Genestealer Cults
49:03 Top Tier Armies?
49:52 Orks
52:22 Thousand Sons
55:25 Grey Knights
57:31 Space Wolves
1:00:30 Overall Rankings
1:02:08 Closing Thoughts + Outro - Hry
Of the six at the bottom, five of them have their codex for this edition. And yet they're under performing in every way. Says a lot about the state of their codex design.
For DA, I read my codex, painted my deathwing assault box, and basically put them on a shelf. I figured if there was any hope at all for the iconic terminators to ever be useful, it'd be the death wing. NOPE. My other army is imperial guard, and I hope that codex NEVER comes out.
I haven’t opened the box. DOA
You never know, it could end up Ork level good and fun, or even Sisters which is looking similar. But I agree: I'd wait.
Yeah. It seems like they erred WAY too hard in favor of making terminators not OP. The First Company Task Force has the same problem, and stormlance has its own problem in not supporting enough units. Anvil Siege Force just has too many Ts and Cs. Perhaps if they got the same benefit if the unit in question is on the objective? IDK.
Yep, recent codes have gutted old units and given no replacement. While nerfimg so much, it's difficult to craft a fun and strong army
There are three guarantees in life.
Death, Taxes, and Deathwatch in dead last.
I for one cannot wait to paint some of my ultramarines wit DW pauldrons
Aren't Custodes dead last by like 10% after the latest nerfs?
@@trndrdlooking at the numbers the more skilled the players the worse custodies are. Which means that new players Vs new players custodies are winning 50%+ of the time with a lot of games, but that's mostly because custodies have strong datasheets if you don't know how to play against them.
Deathwatch should not even exist. Fighting Xenos is something all Space Marines do.
Heresy! :P
Death guards being 7th most played is pleasing to nurgle and the tally
Also 49 percent win rate, 7x7
Most dedicated followers out there
He does grow on you.
The fact the Space Wolves are only doing the best because they have a combination of strong mounted units and access to a regular space marine detachment based on the White Scars must be very upsetting to White Scars fans.
Not as upsetting as the fact they are the only marines with mounted units.
This is a good a place as any to point out that White Scars can actually take Thunderwolves as long as they don't take Kor'Sarro.
Perfectly legal to build a White Scars army, take nothing with the White Scars keyword (only 1 model?) take a load of Thunderwolves and paint them white and run Stormlance.
Because there would only be 1 chapter keyword it's 100% legal.
Yeah that unit has higher toughness, better combat, access to a captain and lieutenant on mount and everything has an invuln. Then adding in combat flare from the captain and lieutenant. It’s no wonder TWC like the detachment. Give codex factions access to the same leader units on mounted and let them take storm shields and you’d see the same result for white scars.
You'd be surprised as a spacewolves player I'm upset one unit and Detachment is carrying our faction we have next to no flexibility. You wanna actually compete list building is okay 1200 points thunder wolf calvary then stuff fking sucks
White scars are so much cooler than space wolves too
Honestly the codex factions in general need some specialist units added. Being stuck with just special characters is honestly boring. Locally some space marine lists are doing very well, but they’re spamming land raiders and stuff.
Ah yes the 2 Genestealer players, one is really carrying the other.
as a genestealer player i think the most op thing in my codex is that nobody learn and play them so people are not prepared to confront them and with good strategy and experience you can totally surprise them
I feel this
@theoguesdon8167 Not far from the truth. It helps that the Index let you play a lot of mind games with tricks people keep forgetting you have.
Genestealer players are literally like a genestealer cult. Nobody expects to have them on their planet and doesn't expect the tricks which make them win.
I've often wondered about this and what makes people avoid them. It's got to be one of the least popular.
Remember that warm fuzzy feeling of getting excited for your codex, pepperidge farm remembers…
These days I look at codex releases with dread and apprehension
@@johnhildenbrand2642 and then wait less than 2-3 years to do it all over again ._.
@TechbotALPHA Not me man, I am calling a lid after 10th for a few editions
@@TechbotALPHAThat’s the worst part man. Especially when your army is last to get a codex so it’s only good for a little while. What’s even the point?
Oh ye I member
I think the fact that Custodes have gone to spot 18 in popularity and 0 tournament wins are both more telling metrics than their 45% which seems misleading.
It's because no one wants to go to a tourney and hear Femstode jokes all day. Especially when their army is at a competitive disadvantage.
3 games against thousand sons and i can see their win rate. You got something big? Doombolt. You got a tanky boy? Remove the save. Oh and nah I didn't take damage
Tsons are pretty fragile, and once they start losing cabal points it snowballs quick.
If you’re not 100% sure you can bring Magnus down that turn, focus on killing the MSU and laugh when they can’t do all their spells anymore. You’re welcome
- a TSons player who’s been playing the army since mid-9th
The secret way to beat tsons is killing all the msu and characters. Ince cabal pints and command points are down, we are dead
I did a game against a space marine friend playing salamanders using firestorm detachment. Having the ability to command reroll, two weaver of fate reroll, and just ignore a wound's damage allowed Magnus to absorb 1500 points of his armies shooting. The land raider redeemer did the most damage with the fire. Everything else was tanked with those save rerolls and that 4+ invulnerable
@@timunderbakke8756 been playing 1000pt (because that’s what my friends have) games with my tsons, and yeah it’s wildly apparent there.
The only way to beat a psyker army-is with another psyker army right? (I’m just hoping grey knights have an even chance against them since my friend plays tsons and I only have grey knights as an army)
Cries in Dark Angel and Custodes 😢
**Tyranid nods in sympathy and pats you on the shoulder whilst making sad clicking noises**
@@SnowFoxWithAGasMask Codex Marines, Ultramarines tries to hug you both, while trying to hold tears :(
Search for Anal Angels, much more enjoyment, trust me bro those Dark Angels aren't fun...
Death Guard: 7th most played Faction.. Papa Nurgle has to love this
DG in such an okay spot, I honestly hope GW touches nothing. From where they started at the index, I’m concerned their codex is going to revert to that level again. Whomever wrote their rules had a personal vendetta against them lol
@@willd5328 Yeah, I do expect some major changes come the codex which worries me. They need a durability buff though, so i would trade a few downgrades for a 5++ or -1 damage. The choosing a debuff before battle may go, or get moved to the army rule, If it goes i would like to see each detachment get their own unique debuff. I hope we get more then 4 detachments but i doubt it.
OC0 not being able to do actions coming up is gonna be a stealth buff to skitarii vanguard with their aura. Not to be underestimated.
Also for Chaos Spawn
Very plausible. Hopefully most of the OC0 units in the game plummet in cost as a result.
Every chaos army it's a stealth nerf. Nurglings were auto include for missions.
@jeremiegartner464 true, but that's a general nerf and nurglings are very useful for moveblocking at the start of the game.
Wait….debuffing a unit to zero OC makes them unable to do actions in the new rules set?
The real problem with AdMech is we’re a shooting army with worse shooting than non shooting armies, only to buff that 4+ to hit to 3 by sacrificing all movement, and we’re a horde army who can only take 10 bricks for our battleline. We struggle from no identity in this edition. Cohort is fun to play only to keep reminding your opponent that all your list has stealth. Legio cybernetica is the worst of it, giving a unit in our army the army rule it should already have, and when wanting to run 3x4 kastellan blocks you have to invest 395 per just to do so… mind boggling
I wonder if they rewrite stupid rule on Cohort Cybernetica. Whoever wrote the codex should be forced to mandatory servitorisation.
Proxy your army as orks until GW fixes your rules 😂
@@PepsiMagt man, if only…
Heck, at the beginning of the edition a 4 man Kastelan block was 465 Points, and after the codex, a 4 man block was 435 Points. And they're still just as bad.
At their core, the issue is datasheets.
Kataphron Destroyers, Ruststalkers, Cawl, etc. etc. etc.
Kastelan Robots are also only good being built one way currently (flamers + fists). I've ran the shooty Kastelans, but strength 6 shots even with Peerless Eradicator and Lethal Dosage is just not enough to justify over punch bots on 90pt models.
Maybe the Legio Cybernetica detachment could give their protocols more benefits (like Conquerer protocol increases WS by +1 along with the extra attacks, Protector protocol increases BS by +1 along with the extra attacks, Aegis protocol increases toughness by 2 instead of 1) or maybe allow multiple datasmiths to activate multiple protocols in a squad (because for some reason you ARE allowed to attach multiple datasmiths to a squad)
Playing dark angels has really sucked in 10th
Real dark angels don’t wanna play iron hands with azrael
The worst fate in 10th edition seems to be having your codex released
Yeah and this was supposed to be their big moment :(
Guard armies going up but a percent or two:
"We are so back Militarum Enjoyers."
As a Space Wolves Player for twelve years I have never seen us on the very Top
So how does it feel being top dog? Finally treated like the good boys you are?
And i guarantee Russ is the next returning primarch
Either late 10th or in 11th
@@mycatistypingthis5450 sadly i only own 12 Thunderwolf Models :-)
These videos offer me the incredible validation of the insight my friends and I had at the start of 10th; tenth is not well conceived.
Between stats being so inflated to a point of nearly incapable of interacting with each other, the just uninspired, uninteresting, or plain not fun rules, and the removal of so much, especially when compared to 9th and the abundance of fun and plethora of fluffy and crunchy ways to play each faction. It's so frustrating to see the bottom 6 consist of 5 codex having factions. It's so frustrating that death guard was bottom of the barrel on release and for months begged for something every other faction had access to for identity cohesion and were told there was no such rule to SUDDENLY there being an additional rule that was fun, fluffy, thematically cohesive AND influential to the game and provided a very necessary tool but Ad mech gets a codex that is a DOA flounder of paper and radioactive fluff? Why even play this version when competative players can't make these poorly handled factions work?
Yes. I play 7th and 9th edition and NOT 10th. Yes, I don’t buy anything new. Yes I 3D print (or trying to). Yes I love 40k, but tenth, so far, seems to not be it.
You say guard is "just generally a bit underpowered atm"
Also you said this sentence after every single balance patch....
Thank you GW... For nothing
Born Soldiers is the only thing holding guard back atm tbh.
I always tell people I'd honestly prefer a 48% win-rate and being fun to play than a 60% win-rate and being bored.
You hold the line, usually the line between good and bad armies 😂
We're probably getting the last codex and I'm afraid it's gonna mid af
@@hodgknob3545 In a way, that's a mixed blessing. I fear our codex will come with elimination of units such as Death Riders and Engineers, maybe even most of the Forge World tanks. As it is now, my Engineers aren't even in Legends, they were just written out as if they never existed. I imagine much of the Forge World products won't go to plastic and if we're lucky, they make it into Legends.
Not a good feeling when mine and my buddies' armies are in the bottom 5, Custodes-DA player here
Between my friend and I we have 4 of the 6 bottom armies
Not a good feeling when my armies are in the bottom 5 and my buddies are in the top 2. @@Almighty_Mage
I got worse, my factions codex marines are at bottom, and my frend who tells me i'm a meta slave etc (we just beginnen, 6 month ago) is playing orcs.
I don't stand any chance, i lost allready 11 games in row.
Space wolves are at 56%, quick.... Increase the cost of guard artillery
Don't forget the legally obligated +5 points to Hive Guard and Gargoyles for Tyranids!
"Someone's gotta be last for someone else to be in first."
Bob, of the deathwatch.
Add a comment...
Not deathwatch 😢
Infantry cannot deal with vehicles. Vehicles can deal with infantry. There is a significant lack of balance between vehicles and infantry. Mounted troops are suffering because they're as tanky as infantry but more costly.
The massive step up in toughness for vehicles and anti vehicle strengths but keeping infantry at their 9th ed levels means that generally unless the data sheet is really effective at what it does it's not really playable.
I'm talking specifically about space marines where there is 2 ways to play them.
The first is play Firestorm with a land raider redeemer and an aggressor brick.
The second is the old tech of the vanguard with cent devestators & aggressor brick with calgar.
Divergent Chapters you have
Black templar - Ironstorm - because you can take 6 of any one of the tank chasis which is dumb AF and needs changing.
Blood Angels - Sons of Sanguinious - my god the dmg output is nuts
Dark Angels - Green Ironstorm with just Az for Cp generation.
Ironstorm is the best way to play space marines, because literally everything in the game that's worth taking shits all over T4 3+ save 2 wounds. Strength 8 AP 2 dmg 2 is everywhere, often on indirect stuff too.
You just can't play infantry and that's why armies like Deathwatch - Dark Angels - Space Marines are at the bottom of the pile because people are trying to play them to their lore and fluff which is infantry and SM infantry is just shit.
I played a 100 player GT. There were 3 non ironstorm non sons of sanguinious lists at the event out of 16 players. Not one of them came top half.
SM infantry is shit and that's why I play Orks now after coming back from a 10 year hiatus. Started with Leviathan and starter set and was underwhelmed on the SM
Tyranids need a huge buff. And more than just the biovore costing 10 less points... GW needs to make synapse matter a lot more. Each detachment should have a different buff that units get while theyre in synapse range. That would not only make synapse matter more but it would reinforce the themes of each detachment. Some examples:
Invasion Fleet: while in synapse your non-synapse units gain +1S on all their attacks.
Synaptic Nexus: while in synapse your non-synapse units gain a 6+ invulnerable save. If they are in synapse range of zoanthropes they gain a 5+ invulnerable save instead.
Crusher Stampede: while in synapse your non-synapse monsters can only be wounded on a wound roll of 4 or greater.
Unending Swarms: at the start of your command phase, each endless multitude unit in synapse regains 1d3 models upto its starting strength.
Assimilation Swarm: while in synapse, your harvester units get +1 to their FNP rolls.
Vanguard Invader: while in synapse all non-synapse vanguard invader units gain cover. if those units already had cover they also gain stealth.
interesting idea tbh... and it also comes with very thematic/lore friendly counterplay.
When designing tyranids this ed they thought battleshock was going to be meaningful, and frankly it just never really matters, it is like they designed tyranids before they decided to create a reroll battleshock and before they decided that battleshock units dont run away
@@randalthor832armywide battleshock check can sometimes matter and even decide games. its just not reliable or fun to play against. it can either win you a game unfairly or do nothing at all and that swinginess makes it a bad game mechanic to base an entire faction around. the tyranid faction ability shouldve been based around buffing units in synapse instead. And the once per game battleshock check ability should just be rolled into the neurotyrant's profile as one of its innate abilities . And reduce the range to 24" (maybe even 18") instead of the entire battlefield.
@@randalthor832 I kind of have to disagree a little bit there tbh. I lose points on primaries pretty much every game due to battleshock against tyranids. :-P
@@runeh3022then you are probably playing guard. Most armies can either heavily counter or flat ignore shadow when it matters, and even if they fail losing maybe 5 points is not likely to change the game when the bugs tend to be all dead turns 4 and 5.
Now I can resume building that Craftworld army with no fears of being accused of chasing the meta 😂
Honestly i don’t want admech to be strong, i just wish we had even HALF the flavour of ONE ork detachments rules for our ARMY, half of our detachments are ”two units in your army gain a buff” and one is ”this weak unit gains the army rule it should have had from the begining which does not benefit it much”
I'd also add that it really isn't nice to make admech a horde army. Neither in lore nor in money.
"Adeptus Custodes have a 45% win rate (-10%) and are now 18/26 in popularity."
Well, when Games Workshop decided to sell a $60 roll of toilet paper I think all us Custodes players used it and left.
Please, that's a bad comparison. The glossy stiff paper really isn't good for toilet paper purposes. It is very good to cut airbrush masks from or for terrain building though.
I have a theory that the small indie company gays workshop has 2 people working on balance:
1 guy who can only add or subtract a miserable amount of points from a unit
and the second who either kills a unit either makes them stupidly OP
and it is strictly forbidden for them to communicate, the fact that custodes 4+++ against mw needs fixing for a third time in this edition confrms this
Dark angels are going to get 0 boosts in the next update. 0. I feel it in my bones :)
Maybe even negative boosts
Welcome to what it feels like to be deathwatch
As a Dark Angels player, I'm hoping the try to do something in the upcoming changes. But after the codex, I don't trust their ability to not make it worse. It feels like there's no hope for significant improvement before the next edition.
So basically we see Space Marines low because it's probably actually fairly decent, but likely has skewed losses due to it being a common faction for newer/less experienced players. Then somehow Space Wolves has risen surprisingly with win rates due to it not being played much and so the people that bring it are likely experienced. Meanwhile the usual Thunderwolf spam plus the overall points reductions of Space Marines units probably allows them to pack an effective punch in their competitive builds making it an uneasy task to deal with what they can bring to the table.
As for Grey Knights, did everyone who owns a GK army suddenly decide to take part in tournaments or something? Crazy spike.
Space marines are really good at 3000 points, but they get absolutely twatted at 2k or 1k. That’s when the lower points costs since January really matters.
I’m pretty sure
Auspex looks at tournaments to rank factions so the new player fallacy doesn’t really apply.
Imo if you take an equally skilled space marine player with an equally skilled player of a better faction the matter will win more times than not imo. I’m not saying I’m particularly skilled but I’ve played a lot of players and factions, it can’t be a coincidence that most of my wins have been against other space marines factions and Tyrranids.
When I have won against other factions more powerful it’s been with circumstances that benefit me, like a 1k game with pre nerf custards and guard. Or as I said a 3k game with eldar and Daemons.
Space wolves are in the same boat as regular space marines, all of their unique first born stuff is not the best, apart from mounted wolves, and even then space wolves players only win in tournaments with high number of those models and and only those models. GW will most likely nerf them in the coming months like they did with iron storm.
I'm fairly new to 40k here.
Can a player with a lower tier army stand up to top armies with a good list, smart strategies, and a bit of luck...
Or is it pointless to even step up?
Just asking cause I picked ultramarines as my army.
@@King_Thulsa_Doom Ultramarines are the best ones to pick if you went with a non-divergent chapter. They shine in Vanguard and Gladius Task force. The thing that is detrimental for a lot of new(er) players going with space marines (myself included- started playing end of 9th as salamanders) is the dauntingly huge roster. It is nice having a large roster to be able to pick more flavorful units for the various detachments but a good 2/3's of the unit choices are sub-par to abysmal. This has been making internal balancing a nightmare, especially since they included free add-ons for weapons loadout which has greatly hurt alternate build paths for some units. Ex: Aggressors got a points hike due to the fire discpline - boltstorm aggressors combo being insane. This hurt the less than ideal flamestorm gauntlet variant. Yes, the firestorm detachment with immolation protocol is nutty on the aggressors, BUT the 6in range difference hurts a lot and requires a lot more attentivesness to positioning/trading the unit whereas boltstorm aggressor variants have a higher chance of living another turn due to their mid-range capabilities and coming out ahead most of the time just to pay 2CP to nuke another high priority unit all over again another turn.
This is all to say, IF you want to be competitive, the very limited viable SM units would probably be more aligned with middle-middle upper of the pack imo. Space Marines getting all the love with new units while other factions don't becomes a double edged sword since it becomes harder to find synergy for lists that are functionally "good".
Side note, Space marines are supposed to be an "elite" army so less models for more versatile/durable units BUT as can be seen, a lot of infantry have become like paper this edition while SM tanks are too durable for their points imo.
@@xChibzxYeah, GTF is probably going to be my go-to detachment, I have a 2000 point army that's fairly Bladeguard/Hellblaster heavy.
@@xChibzx The 1st Co. Detachment looks like it could be fun, but I don't think I have nearly enough Terminators and Veterans.
Oh wow releasing a Codex filled with not ass gameplay and varied ways to play makes a faction popular and strong. Who'd have guessed?!
It's time to bring back the old Oath of Moment.
So Space Wolves can get even stronger?
I think one of the reasons why Drukhari still have a low play rate is that it's really quite awkward to pack and transport them. Skysplinter rewards lots of Raiders and Venoms, but Raiders on their thin flight stands don't play easily with magnetic storage solutions and have a big footprint in a case for their very low points cost. I can't imagine what it must be like trying to transport a 2k army on a plane.
On a more personal note, there's also the fact that GW don't seem to have a clue what they're doing with Wyches. Of all the melee weapon options the box builds (Agoniser, power sword, Shardnet+Impaler, Hydra Gauntlets and Razorflails), precisely none of them have any rules support whatsoever, and in fact the Wych weapons technically break WYSIWYG because the model doesn't have a pistol. If the argument is that rules for those options would make the unit 'too complex', it seems to have been missed by the writers of the Chaos Codex, because Legionaries have almost as many options (Accursed Weapon, Chainsword, Heavy Melee Weapon) which the core box doesn't even build and all of those got rules just fine.
I really don’t think that’s the case e
Remember that time when the new codex was the most op army in town?
We are paying for the sins of the past.
People said they didn’t like that though lol god damn liars they just didn’t like it when it wasn’t their codex
I realise that gw had to do something about power creep and making all the codices weaker addresses that, but fuck me it really tanks my enthusiasm for an army when i can't feel excited or look forward to updates.
I feel you as a ck player
Orkz have been a ton of fun to play. I play War Horde with a mix of mega nobs, vehicles, bikes, boys and a bit of shooting to hold my back line. I've also had a lot of success with my Canoptek Court for Necron. Immortals with Plasmancer still feels super gross and Wraiths are a fabulous anvil.
Bad time to be Retributor Armor drinkers, we’ll hopefully get some love soon (hopefully some other armies too)
hey that balance dataslate should be soon hopefully
@@alternateaccount6913 I expect it to be spam stodes as we have rules on paper they easy solution is reduce the points. Plus they nerfed custodes even more in lattest update I expect that is going to continue.
@Alrold I'm wondering if they don't plan to wrap Grey Knights and Deathwatch both into imp agents and replace Grey Knights with spamstodes.
I'm not really sure how you can "fix" custodes, and more importantly there are only 4 detachments in total, and one of them is so bad they may as well have not included it. Given the limited number of detachments, I'd really like to see them make null maidens at least playable casually
I love Tyranids, they are the first army were I had to own at least one of every model, even forge world stuff. I only play for fun, so dont really see my opinion mattering but still....as a whole I've not had fun playing Nids in 10th. It's just not fun being forced to play a certain way if you even hope to win, and having to avoid alot of the war part of this war game, while getting blown off the table by units you couldn't dream of even bracketing most of the time. I blame nids not being fun for me picking up an AoS army 😅
it can be kind of fun to edge out a win with them.. but with the lists that have a winning chance being mostly non-interactive it gets boring very quickly..
I don't understand how they thought that having 90% of the units do next to no damage because a single unit has a potential buff that boosts everyones damage (to the average most other armies do without any buffs) could ever work.. Especially acting all surprised that every list spams the same units that do at least something useful and nerfing them results in overall drops in winrates..😑
It's called the launch faction blues
No matter what bland point update the Dark Angels will get to make the competitive scene happy, nothing will save the shitty uninspired codex worth being picked up. I don't want to play neither green Ultramarines models, nor use some Ironhands detachment. At least a few factions have gotten some flavorful codices this edition, but so much is just boring junk.
The Ravenwing detachment might be OK in the new missions with the buff to battleline buffing our bikes
@@nicholasscott3287 Might be of interest for competitive players. Making a codex depending on missions to be interesting is a bit meh. I prefer having my culled units back, making them interesting to play and limit my access to Codex Space Marine detachments and units.
Win rates are nothing I care about.
I saw the DA codex and knew immediately that Id pretend to be an Ultramarine this edition. I don't think I've ever felt this traitorous, excluding a lil incident involving some of our bois joining an unnamed faction that wasn't the Imperium of Man. Worse still, Space Wolves are doing well? - gawd. I'm confused why they had to remove stuff from our army lists, I like my old bikes, my talonmasters, attack bikes and landspeeders.
@@fishfingers4548 I mean, Chris Wright wrote excellent White Scars HH books and the surprisingly solid Space Wolves 40k books where people compared the two factions... I guess SW finally admit it that White Scars are the far far far cooler legion and use their embarrassing wolves as pretend-bikes now...
But yeah, for us DA this is a wasted edition. 70% of my Ravenwing is legends, 50-70% of my Deathwing has now war gear issues... if anyone thinks I will not use legends or pay attention to the stupid 10th edition war gear rulings they are crazy. I'm not breaking off arms from painted minis to play Ultras.
It buffs outriders. Outriders. Not black knights unfortunately :/@@nicholasscott3287
Sad deathwatch main noises
Hold the line Brother.
No way they don't get rolled into imp agents. They're practically Ordo Xenos in a nutshell.
I have buddy who has been playing them he went undefeated in a team event in May using vanguard spearhead or anvil seige probably anvil I remember he was using desolation marines
We tried to pair him into anyone who didn't ha e indirect so they wouldn't get removed instantly
I think being combined with Agents of the Imperium is the best case scenario unfortunately.
If they still get a dedicated detachment in a combined codex, I'll still be generally happy - though it'll be sad getting to see SW, BA, DA, and BT probably getting several detachments to play with
As a Grey Knights player, feels good man
The punishment for it is going to be brutal. GW is going to wreck LRs and NDKs.
As a DA player, happy for you man.
But as a loyal DA man, fuck you and your secrets GK
@@piotrjeske4599 Exactly what I am wooried about :/
I know it's not the point of the army but man, GK weapons suck. Stormbolters feel like they're the new Lasguns. (I'm only playing 800p so movement tricks are kinda limited)
I want a mounted unit like a robo horse or some bikes. Also some shields. We are "knights" after all. Just saying. 😅
For the edition with space marines vs tyranids as a big theme
Space marines and tyranids aren't doing all to hot
To be fair, the intro boxes are the way new players often start an army. New players have low win rates.
@@mycatistypingthis5450 I'm tired of this fallacy. These numbers are from tournament level players, not causal local games.
@@AnotherViewBot if you look at the top 50% elo, SM are at 63% win rates. people going 0-x drag the bracket down
Man...
Chaos Knights need an actual army rule that doesnt suck, and overall improvements to titanic units (be directly by the army rule being stronger on them, or individually, datasheet updates or points) specially the Abominant.
Imperial Knights just need Bondsman back on big knights.
Both Knights need overwatch back on titanics, even at 2 CP (maybe exceptions to the flamer ones on datasheet)
Tyranids, better weapon profiles. Decrease in points on many units that now are weaker (Termagants now cant use assault to advance and do actions, neither pistol on melee), Ripper Swarms, etc.
Astra Militarum needs a different detachment, or keep the stratagems but change what the detachment does.
Always nice to know that my second favourite army is doing so damn good. My favourite is Chaos marines and second favourites is orks
Orks are here to blow stuff up, if they win that's just a secondary benefit 🤣
Who'da thought giving an army 4+ FNP for two whole turns would be good for the game..
So, the only army that is above GW's threshold for being too strong is Space Wolves, while there are six armies (Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Space Marines, Tyranids, AdMech, and Custodes) below the threshold for being too weak?
Barring Deathwatch (who wont get one), those armies are all released codex armies, haha GW f&cked this edition hard their special needs hires in the rules department.
The imbalance in quality of codexes across the edition is hilarious. I wish a good edition book for all of the players who’s armies who haven’t received one yet.
It's worth noting that the two best detachments for Custodes have 47% win rate and Talons has a 4-0 conversion rate of 7%, which is really good! The army is fine, but much more difficult to play than before, which has a big impact given it's often seen as a beginner faction due to being cheaper to get with excellent discount boxes etc. The biggest problem with the army is that Grav Tanks are great, so Forge World models being key is not ideal, however the rumour is plastic Grav Tanks for HH coming before xmas, which will help a bunch
As a SW player I don't like the SW reliance on Thunderwolves to be good, especially since it's mainly due to using Stormlance, which isn't all that good for basically any other marine army.
Nerfing Thunderwolves hits the other detatchments for SW (which don't deserve it, Champions of Russ especially), and nerfing Stormlance makes it worse for other marines (who also don't deserve it), it's the combination of the two that creates the problem. Conceptually, how do you solve that without restricting SW access to other detachments?
Just wait till Marine players realise other Chapters can take Thunderwolves as long as the keywords don't clash with other chapter specific units. So White scars can take them and play Storm' as long as they don't take any White Scar specific units.
I picked up Eldar two months ago for the first time ever, way after the nerfs. Definitely can take some blame for the win rate dropping haha, the army is a Glass Cannon that rewards great generals and punishes inexperienced ones. I'm more a fan of jumping into an army on its downside so you can own it when it comes back up.
I'am so glad I did not get into DW when starting 40k again in 10th, was waffling between them and Votann for my second army >.> . 7×7 and 7 most played, the grandfather is pleased!
Now that OC0 can't perform actions or score secondaries we can watch the 'Nids hit single digit WR%
But that's good 'cause now they'll have to rebalance us to actually be viable and maybe even fun...right? Right?!
The Battleline buffs will buff Nid swarm armies with hundreds of bugs.
I suspect they might crank melee AT on nids to compensate. Wish they'd fix Crusher Stampede though.
yeah, sure.. next edition that is.
@@Errtuabyss oh Lord we were this edition's posterboys, not Admech!
@@AAw3s0m3 hahaha kind of.
But it's more like the usual punishment for GW making them OP last edition.
Just as Marines where aggressively mediocre in 9th.
They never learn.
I’m just so tired of deathwatch being perpetually at the bottom. Save for their broken rule at the beginning of tenth, I’ve been playing them since last edition and can’t remember a time when they were actually considered great, or even “good”.
What would them being in AOTI even look like? Just taking a kill team squad or two depending on army size just like the other AOTI units? Sucks, man
Well you can run AOTI as its own army currently if you don't select a detachment. It would prolly be just the kill teams yeah, which sucks because it means your generic SM units are now worthless unless if you wanna play normal SM/Divergent Chapters.
I’m still convinced the only issues with space marines are:
1. Artificially inflated losses due to being the intro faction (and most common so folks tech to handle T4 2W infantry)
2. The fact divergent armies can take the best they have and mix it with their stuff. Templars are solid with Ironstorm, Gladius or their own detachment. Wolves live on stormlance .
Yup. Going back to the 2 codex team theory, Tyranids certainly got the bad codex. Space marines certainly isn't necrons, eldar or orks but still a good codex with viable options that is fun to play.
The losses aren't artificially inflated. These numbers are from tournament level players.
I'm personally the best pilot in our local meta, yet my opponents who are playing orcs, necrons, grey knights, chaos, are consistently beating me, despite the skill gap. Out of the last ten matches, the only two I won were against the GK player who wanted to try out his new chaos knights, and a player using nids. I promise you that the marines need help. Their special rules and abilities are just ass compared to things like csm or orcs. They don't have easy access to strong keywords like lethals or devs. They truly are suffering from a poor codex. I feel like our codex was written and balanced with old oath of moment in mind. We could use it back tbh.
Still hoping you’ll do army Crusade videos, now that we’ve got a decent number of codexes. Especially pointing out shenanigans / good combos since Enhancements aren’t locked to their respective detachments.
It's like they're trying to bring power levels down across the board. Yet, they can only target 1-2 factions at a time with their codex release cycle.
Orkz being an obvious standout where their overall power shot up after their codex but I'd almost expect some key point increases next balance pass, with very few to no buffs.
The problem with Index: Astra Militarum is you are effectively playing without a detachment rule. The only units consistently utilizing Born Soldiers to any extent are indirect fire units., as they naturally don't want or need to move. Despite this, the fact that The Guard has a 46% win rate while basically not having a detachment rule means the army is strong and will likely only get better if the Codex ever comes out at a reasonable time frame and not in the last six months and only usable in tournaments for three months like in 9E.
Spore mines and rippers were carrying Nids hard. After this next update with 0OC units I wouldn't be surprised if they drop below 30%.
One thing I dont see mentioned enough is that the thunderwolf cav only have 4 keywords and only one of them (imperium) can be targeted by enemy abilities. Its a strange loophole I found as a tyrranids player because none of our detachment rules (lethal hits on vehicles, sustained hits on troops..etc) really effect them.
Hmm, I think I'll finally put together my leviathan boxes, I wonder how space marines and tyrannies are doing at the mo-...
Could have predicted that Tau were going to take a hit in the rankings when they changed their crisis suits rules. Index crisis suits really were carrying them to a significant degree
It’s very telling that only 2 out of the ~8 new codexes over the last year are above that bare minimum winrate (unless you are space marines and have 2 niche ways of being decent)
I wonder if the developer didn't use tournament result statistics to balance the game but rather using their own internal to balance the game?
Would be nice to know where the data comes from. For me seems to be the stat-check data which could be mentioned if it’s not data provided by yourself
I got 3 armies (Admech, Custodes and Space Marines) because, statistically, at least one of them would be doing good.
I think astra militarum is in the best place where all the other factions are doing basically the same list every time I play guard the list are different
Wow. My Wolves are actually at the top for once. I don't play anymore, but I LOVED playing my Wolves during 7th/8th. Good to see them getting good love. Especially since I already loved TWC/Wulfen/Bjorn/Logan.
Great content as always. Is I possible to see the win rates of the different detachments by faction anywhere? Ie spacewolves stormlance vs gladius, champions of russ etc etc. Same with basic marines as I wonder if one or two detachments hold up or hamper an army's performance over all. If someone can point me to this info I would be very grateful
Do we prefer the 10th codex problem, where your codex makes your army worse, or 9th edition where not having your codex means you get stomped by anyone with a codex?
It's not a problem either way if all of the codices drop at the same time. This slow release is actually the root of the problem. Had all of the codices dropped at the release, you would be able to implement a reduction in powers for all factions without irritating your customer base. It's not as if you pick up a codex and find all sorts of fluff anymore. Lots of pictures, data profiles and point costs that are likely out of date at the time you're looking at the book. I'm not buying anymore books. Someone is going to upload it for free somewhere and I'm using that.
As a blood angel player I can say it really has been 50/50 recently and mostly I have to hope that my opponent makes one or two big mistakes
Wonder what's in store for the new dataslate, I feel like space marines are due for another round of point nerfs
I want my bugs to be decent. Not even good, but decent.
Just want them to FEEL like Tyranids again.
18:17 I love being at this spot, don't know why.
Happy to see GCults are doing fine. I always perceived the army just like Wood Elves in WFB - terrible if you don't know what you are doing, abslutely bonkers if you are pro.
Someone high up at GW hates Dark Angels...
How are these data taken? Do the "best players in the world" play multiple factions? Or is this faction the winningest because the best players play them? Just curious.
So if the worst factions are any indication, the Gensestealers are about to take a bloody NOSEDIVE now that they just got their codex. The majority of armies with their new codexes are doing the very worst, and two are at the tippy top…
Yeah, sisters got the good codex, gSC are screwed. I wonder which pair are up next, and who will be next to get their codex ruined.
Genesneaker Cults & Sisters will do fine. Maybe not top tier, but they definitely won't be bottom of the barrel like the initial 4-5 codices
If you've been through a couple edition changes, then you *should* damn well know by now that those first 4-5 codices are 9/10 times absolute dogshit.
Those book are written as the edition is still being "play tested", (don't laugh...), and/or within the first month or so of a new edition's release... there's literally no time to tinker/fix anything before those books are off to the printers. It typically takes a good 5-6 months to really get a feel for how an edition initially evolves and where it's likely heading overall.
Everyone and their mother knows you want your codex to be released in the roughly 'mid point' of the current edition. Orks, CSM's, GSC's, Sisters... probably also the heavily rumored BA's, and upcoming Guard, etc... those books will probably shake out quite well on the whole and at least be decently 'fun' to play with. (fun being entirely subjective of course!)
The back 5-6 codices will often times be just another shitshow... either the edition will end and get blown up like the 9th -> 10th transition, so you have maybe a year at the absolute most to enjoy your codex before it's 100% invalidated. Or, you get some weird hybrid bastard codex that's trying out some "new upcoming" changes to the core rules AND trying to be "fully compatible" with an upcoming new edition in only 3-4 months time, while still being "100% usable" with the soon-to-be-old edition... and thus you get a disfunctional mess that can't play in either the outgoing nor the new incoming editions!
By detachment type might be a better metric
Chaos SM also just won aus tournie Terracon yesterday weekend just gone, 108~ player tournie.
well lets see what happens with Nids.
they need a lot op help, also because of the changes they have mentioned they will do.
if they don't get some BIG changes to help they are gutted.
I regret buying into them right now. They can win, but it feels more like I have to rely on my opponent having a bad day to do it. Numbers don't seem to overcome a primarch or let me deal with tank. Pull out something like a Winged Hiven Tyrant and he has managed to die in every game, without exception. Death Leaper is a joke of a character. All you can hope to do is win on objectives and that's hard to do without the reliable hitting power.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 i main Nids, and yes the only way to win is with shenanigans and they are being removed now.
we really need something hard hitting, we had some FW units BUT they hit them with big point increases when the Codex dropped as they felt they had a similar niche as the Norns even though they are not close.
also our main faction rule does almost nothing compared to other faction :(
Could you please keep scale of these bars? 40% looks like triple times smaller than 56%
That's the way it feels on my heart
As a space wolves player it kinda sucks to see us at the top purely due to meta sweats bringing in over £200 of Thunderwolf cavalry. It’s gonna ruin the units for the casual players who still play 40k AS A GAME
My painted armies are DA and Custodies guess it’s time to start painting my necrons
Would it be possible to always include a short note if there is an especially big gap in winrates within a faction based on player skill ( say >10 percentage points). In some especially hard or easy to play factions the gap between an inexperienced player going up against similarly skilled opponents and an experienced one doing the same can be quite big. I know you also do videos specifically about that topic, but including quick notes for the outliers would be helpful.
like genestealer, i've nether win for almost 1 years and then master it and almost always win (in 9ed)
Member when GW did MetaWatch with statistics etc? Before every new codex made the situation worse?
But to be fair.. the difference between armies overall isn't as staggering as in other editions. The armies are overall closer together. Which makes the differences all the more relevant since it's that harder to push through as an army that is lower on the power scaling. With less extremes there is also less potential for wacky combos to have an impact.
As a Space Wolves player, ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME. I noticed that I recently im def winning more
RIP deathwatch
What is the nerf to ironstorm spearhead with dark angels?
As a World Eaters player, the Helbrute and Maulerfiend points changes were more impactful than the Berzerker changes
GW: here's a Metawatch video.
Us: where are the stats?
Auspex: I got it!
This man is a machine!
can we get a horus heresy units in 40k tier list
I feel like if they just gave Custodes a 5+++ against Mortals/Dev Wounds faction wide (so make it part of the army rule and NOT a detachment) and a few point drops the faction would at least be fine for now. Of course they ultimately need more work put into their rules like most Codex Releases so far ....
Where do chaos engines fit in?
ive played 5 games with my WE army from1k-2k in the last month, and i gotta say the lack of Scary units(outside of Angron and the LOS) is upsetting. most armies have some kind of coherency between the units and benefiting eachother. WE has very little outside of the auras from angron, the blessings, and Lord Invocatus scoutting. i love the lore and the army and continue to play them but i will wait for their new units or even a codex before id take em seriously ever.
even though I feel so good about orks being in the top, it still sucks to see how almost every other codex has shafted other factions
Nids need some love PLEASE 🙏🙏
I'm honestly curious to see which army has been the worst for the longest time in 10th.
My bet would be on space marines and admech.
AdMech and Death Watch probably, pretty sure DW has been hot garbage since launch right alongside my beloved AdMech
Admech. Space marines aren't even bottom 5 my guy, you have options.
I wonder if they really admit that making admech BS 4+ was a huge mistake.
@auspex tactics at 1:00:49 you missed Death Guard not winning any tournaments either
As a Space Wolf player, I kind of hate the reason we are at the top. I don't run Thunderwolves, and don't really want to run more than 1 unit. I've also been saying since January the Stormlance/Thunderwolf was the strongest way to play our boys. Honestly, Champions of Russ is so bad I'm forcing myself to learn Gladius just so I have a chance at one of our local casual tournaments. Winners of our 8 man pod get a banner and I really want the SW one lol But in casually, I still mostly run CoR and heavy characters. Knowing full well that I'm going into an uphill battle.