Why Big Tech is Ruining Our Lives with Brian Merchant - Factually! - 250
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2024
- Express skepticism about technology and you might be labeled a "Luddite." However, the true story of the historical Luddites offers a fascinating perspective on the relationship between workers and technology. In this episode, Adam chats with tech journalist Brian Merchant, author of Blood in the Machine: The Origins of the Rebellion Against Big Tech, about the historical Luddites and their fight against wealthy elites replacing the working class with machines-a struggle made only more relevant by the state of the tech industry today. Find Brian's book at factuallypod.com/books
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When does a walled garden become a penitentiary?
I was born in late 60's. I remember Pagers and fax machines before flip phones. We were convinced these things would make life better by freeing up time to enjoy life. It did the opposite. It sped things up. Instead of freeing up time, now we are required to do 100-1,000 more things in a day, increasing our work and stress load.
At least these tools DO increase production without compromising quality. The problem is still corporations who, instead of allowing that increase in productivity to benefit the worker or create more free time, force workers to increase output and pocket the increased profit from that productivity. If the government more heavily taxed these corporations to give that pay back to the employees by improving public life it may still be a worthwhile investment, but they don't. Instead we get Jeff Bezos and his ilk.
In a way it has made life better, but is also made the time between interactions shorter…
Ex.
If being “connected” meant a phone in every house, then you had to accept a day or more time may be required for response…
If being “connected” meant a phone in every pocket, then you have mere minutes to an hour for a proper response…
If being “connected” means a chip in every head… do you have mere seconds for response?
Things are more efficient then they were 20 years ago, you can get much more done in the same amount time, but does that now mean we should be given less time?
Ex.
When i was a kid: you could visit all of DisneyWorld in a day or two… Now, there is so much more to do, it takes at least three or four days… But, vacations are shorter, and comparatively more expensive…
Every example I see makes me feel tired at the thought that our lives will always be consumed by our own destructive desire for making something more powerful than what we had before.
“Technology and automation will give you more free time to do the things you love“ is the cruelest joke ever played upon workers by a capitalist system, whose demand for more hard work knows no end or bounds.
Being connected is only a benefit when you are given the space to also disconnect.
I'm just getting sick and tired of businesses forcing us to use tech that barely even works. Whether you're a customer or employee, big tech is telling companies that their product will make things runs smoother, but all it really does is just create extra steps in the name of convenience.
"Extra steps in the name of convenience" is not convenience.
In my opinion technology doesn't really fixed problems. if anything, it replaces one problem with another problem. Also one of the issues I have with modern technology is they'll tell you that it's good for society because it'll help make things easier for people. When in reality it's actually making people lazier. Which isn't good for society.
not in the name of convenience, in the name of profit. a rose by any other name.
Which business is forcing you to use tech?
@@Reedjm All of those things were done quite well long before technology came along. Just because some new machine is created to make a job easier doesn't mean the job wasn't already achievable before? Older computers don't suddenly stop working just because newer ones are created, as long as they are cared for properly. Older technologies are still valid, just less favored because newer things are shiny with the illusion of "being better".All of the occupations you listed can still be done without modern conveniences as they already were done in the past. Modernity does not always mean better. Everything we have now was inspired by what we had in the past. We should not forget that or take it for granted.
@@glenjennettseed catalogs which is my business. It’s tedious and frustrating, makes me not use certain companies.
As a specific tangent of of this, I would love you to cover the workforce collapse of the video game industry which unfortunately I am in. It's 'not just' about massive workplace abuse and dehumanizing of human value, but it's about strategically forcing an entire workforce to build its own redundancy, train its replacements (overseas work and Machine learning), and ultimately produce worse products for the 'consumer'
my condolence. i would recommend you also get in touch with your previous colleagues (if you can) and create some new indie, non-AAA games. because there's still a market for games, we just learned how to detect Bee-Ess from AAA games at this point, especially since LetsPlayers are still a thing.
because even if you're rehired from the same company who fired you, they've already proven they're untrustworthy. never forget, never forgive.
For Mark Zuckerberg, Discriminating against American Workers is Good for Business
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March 4, 2014 - - - Mark Zuckerberg has proudly proclaimed that his support for “comprehensive immigration reform” is not just about self-interest because it would resolve issues that “don’t just touch our part of the industry, but really touch the whole country and touch what is right for us to do as a people.” However, a cursory inspection of the situation reveals that immigration reform is not a humanitarian cause for Zuckerberg, but one that stands to greatly benefit him personally by making his company more profitable at the expense of American workers.
During the past year, the national news media joined with the establishment of the Republican and Democratic parties, as well as various advocacy and business groups, to help win passage of the Senate Gang of Eight bill (S.744), which would result in blanket amnesty for illegal aliens and a massive increase both in legal immigration and guest workers, including a virtually unlimited number of foreign “high-skilled” workers for the tech industry.
There is currently a push for the House of Representatives to take up the Senate bill “piecemeal,” the logic supposedly being that passing the amnesty and immigration increases of S.744 in component parts would cause less of a backlash by voters. The Facebook founder and CEO has been at the forefront pushing support for S.744 and has unequivocally embraced amnesty. Why is Mr. Zuckerberg such a staunch backer of mass amnesty, since very few illegal aliens are likely to have the skills his company would need? Because he knows without amnesty he won’t get the thousands of additional foreign guest workers he wants.
Profit Motive is the Real Motivator for Zuckerberg
Zuckerberg awarded himself a record $2.3 billion in compensation in 2012, while his company not only did not pay any taxes on over $1 billion in revenue, Facebook received major tax refunds from the state and federal governments. Many Republicans who oppose increased spending on welfare benefits for individuals have no problem supporting corporate welfare payouts to billionaire CEOs. They do so with the understanding that some of this largesse will flow back into campaign coffers, and will grease the skids of corporate lobbying in D.C.
According to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks such issues as lobbying and campaign spending, Facebook has spent over $6.4 million lobbying the federal government in 2013 (spending $3.9 million in 2012), and its contribution to political candidates have increased eightfold between 2008 and 2012. Facebook has actively lobbied in support of S.744, which would raise the annual cap on H-1B nonimmigrant (temporary) guest workers from 65,000 to 180,000 and would eliminate the ceiling on green cards for foreign STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) workers.
Facebook also lobbied in favor of House bill H.R. 2131, which would increase the available STEM visa pool so that companies such as Facebook could import more workers, thus displacing native workers and driving down overall wages. The obstacle to passing a stand-alone STEM bill is that the Democratic Party will only agree to vote for it if it is combined with blanket amnesty for 12 million illegal aliens. This is the real motivation guiding Mark Zuckerberg’s “selfless” pursuit of comprehensive immigration reform. It’s no surprise that a tech CEO would want to shift the balance of power more in his favor, but no one has gone to more trouble to erect a smokescreen to disguise his motives than Zuckerberg. < > FAIR US org
This is the playbook for how it's going to go for all of society, and all jobs.
I was straight up lied to about this history in public school.
We learned they were irrationally afraid of technology and expressed that fear through unpredictable violence.
We were lied to about the Labor Rights Movement in public school as well. That was more of a small scale war, complete with plenty of armed skirmishes. Read up on the Battle of Blair Mountain that happened in West Virginia between the coal companies and the miners in 1921 some time, it will blow your mind.
Yes! Same, growing up in the 90s the term luddite was always kind of an insult. Luddite was a term for dumdums who didn't understand how to use a computer etc.
But the real story is so good, we've been misled. This should be a TV series, this story deserves to be better known
As was I.
Now that we know we’ve been lied to, do we now start doing research into what else has also been misrepresented to us?
absolutly @@need-to-know-
Almost like we need to own our means of production as workers
hahaha yup
Realistically after what we have learned from history, workers having a share of ownership in the means of production, is the way forward.
Dividends for all or none at all
A share of ownership also means a share of losses.
@@dragonbeardable that’s definitely better than no shares of anything. Your logic is broken. If we leave it up to the owners they have us back to 14 hr day with child labor and slavery.
Who wants 14 hour days??? Literally nobody. Not even conservatives, MAYBE only SOME CEO's. Capitalism with regulations is fine.@@Turdfergusen382
When i paid for my electric bills online back in 2004, i was like the smartest kid on the block, but today in 2024 when i new app/tech comes up i ask "whats the grift?"
I'm asking myself the same question every time
Designer / Production artist here - it is ALREADY hitting all creatives. I'm really curious why it isn't hitting managers yet, since it'd be WAY better at that.
Managers were proven to be useless in like the 40s it just freaked out executives to empower their workers more then the bare minimum
Tech advancement is always about creating efficiency which means eliminating workers. Which wouldn't be so bad if there was a system in place to collect and redistribute the gains from all that productivity.
Amen brother.@@KungFuChess
Tech has been destroying my livelihood for years. Translation used to be a great living. Now it's at best low-paid gig work. Being good at it doesn't help when you're bidding against a tech company. Language teaching was a great job 20 years ago. Wages are dropping. Adam has done ads for Babel, which is a tech company that ruined wages in the area. Now that tech is threatening Hollywood writers, it's a problem? In the 90s, I did assembly work. Machines took over most of the jobs. Nobody cared about the workers then. It's hard not to be mad at "creatives" who didn't give a damn until it affected them.
you are thinking of managers in the wrong light. Don't think of them as people who manage things. Instead think of them as meat shields between the f***ers and the f***ed over.
When it comes to AI writing of any kind, the best way I've ever seen it put is "if a human being couldn't take the time to say it, why should I take the time to read it?"
There's an argument for automating physical productions of necessities - cheap clothes and food are better than none - but I very much don't think those are applicable to information or entertainment purposes. They're the epitome of "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well"
I dunno, I find my phone less functional now than back in 2013. Before I could do nearly everything I could do on my desktop. Now I must either go through an app that barely works and has half the features missing from it, or watch a barrage of ads before I can even engage with content. Oh, and back then I used to be able to find what I was googling for.
My phone doesn't even play music anymore. Google literally discontinued Google Play, so all the .mp3s I collected over the years can no longer be played with any native app on my phone besides Files. I have to get a different app to play the music I paid for!
That is my impression also. My computes seem less functional than they used to be and less responsive.
The auto correcting feature of many input boxes also often renders intelligible language into gobbledygook right in front of my eyes. I will have typed or spoken something that actually prints out as sensible and then the autocorrect will come along and turn it into bulshit.
Yes! Why isn’t anybody talking about this? So much technology is getting worse! It needs so much input from me.. filtering through shitty apps, nonsensical automatic messages, hidden buttons, systems that don’t talk to each other…
If computers are going to take our jobs tomorrow, can someone explain to me SAP? It is the biggest accounting software in the world and it requires army of accountants to handle because it is so shitty. To the point that I think my company would actually require fewer people if we just went back to paper.
Same with our HR software: millions of pop ups no idea where to click, tens of automatic e-mails, just to register my vacation! Takes hours to do something that in paper would take minutes! Very often I feel technology isn’t making me more productive, it is making me less productive.
@@angelainamarie9656ducking constantly.
Well Google has started manipulating search results so much you cant find anything that isnt paidto be at the top or "popular".
There was a time you could look up a direct video of Alex Jones saying something cra,y from his website, or anyone like Adam Rimuins Everything on Google. But do those searches today and youll get a top 10 of CZcamsrs or News talking about the video instead of the source video itself. Youd probably find the original video 5 pages into your search.
Hey guys, great video overall. As a professional illustrator I'd like to point out a few issues with the benefit of the doubt you are extending to Photoshop. Adobe falls under the blanket of "big tech" and has had a seat at the table during Senate hearings alongside Sam Altman. They are propping their Firefly product up as an ethical alternative to the data scraping models OpenAI and others are utilizing, but have done so by burying their theft in the lengthy terms of service nobody reads. Just like other companies, they also took all the content from their stock contributors and used it in a way that nobody really consented to, but because they paid out a pittance to their stock contributors, they are the good guys? Don't be fooled. They are using their unique position as a commodity provider among creatives to push for the normalization of generative AI usage, thus fracturing the artist community's solidarity on the stance.
And as a follow-up, there are other creative tools gaining popularity among professional creatives outside of the typical Adobe Suite due not only to their less shitty payment models, but for their commitment to their consumer base to not implement generative AI into their programs. Clip Studio Paint and Procreate are good examples.
Thank you! I've grown to hate Adobe. Lately, every time reps from my company meet their people, they are trying to shove Firefly and Express down our throats, even though we (a staff of designers with decades of experience going all the way back to Illustrator 88) want to discuss our needs regadrding their OTHER apps (from InDesign to Premiere). And I've noticed exactly what you say regarding the AI regurgitation of previous Adobe Stock assets. I've basically told the Adobe peo0le to their faces that, going forward I'm recommending Affinity, Clip Studio, Medibang Pro, Procreate...hell, ANYBODY else...to younger designers.
God, remember when they bought out their only competitor at the time, Macromedia, thus creating a monopoly and people were just okay with that?
That merger still pisses me off. Macromedia was making big changes to design tools, and even way back then, Adobe was slipping behind. Instead of getting better, they just bought out the competition and managed the new properties so poorly that hardly any former Macromedia products exist anymore.
I'm just glad that the Figma purchase fell through. Adobe's lineup doesn't deserve that product.
A fellow professional illustrator here, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Adobe is every bit as exploitative as any other tech company, and worse in terms of being a traitor to the creatives they claim to serve.
As an artist who actually loves working with digital tools - big fat thank you for tackling this topic.
GenAI has proven to be a dystopian nightmare come true. I didn't know the Luddites true history prior to this.
Fellow dragon artist!! I agree 100%, and I wish I saw more people share this sentiment. Artists have been wronged, stepped on, and even bullied enmasse. And people who are uncomfortable witnessing are just... turning their eyes away and pretending not to notice.
@@sunla And yeah, it's sad how small the outcry is globally. The genAI devs and their brainrotten army of pathetic basement crusaders with their misanthropic kitsch slop belong shunned by society. At least people are slowly feeling uneasy about the age of deep fakes rising.
Why do we just accept that when tech makes work easier for average workers, that our wages should go down? That doesn't sound like a rising tide lifting all boats, it sounds like BS. "Hey, your job sucks less now, have fun, y'all, no paycuts, no layoffs, ain't tech peachy!" - No business ever.
Hard to believe the common conception 70 years ago was that technology would let us work less and have more leisure time. Thanks for ruining everything yet again, capitalism!
Actually, there is usually a time frame where introduced technology benefits the workforce, the problem is when times get tough: because the business already has sunk investment in the technology, the labor to use the technology is what usually gets minimized…
To make sure this doesn’t get out of hand, government organizations have been set in place to stop businesses from being so short sited, and protect workers both literally and at a rights level…
The problem now is… we have upper-management and owners that see the stripping of those government organizations, as a quick way to maximize profits; not realizing that they are in reality cashing in the present, for a damaged and possibly non-functioning future…
The larger danger in all this is… that we’re in the most productive time in human existence, have solutions to almost every human condition, and yet; find ourselves accepting and fighting misinformation, that’s instructing us to essentially destroy ourselves.
@@NicholasKoeppel True enough, but that timeframe is usually not enough to provide workers who see the writing on the wall once tough times come for the business to preemptively jump ship, which is more of a problem the lower down the income ladder you go.
@@NicholasKoeppelas Brian described, the history of new tech actually shows the purpose of the implementation of big tech has been to displace workers, and diminish their influence and power in the workplace and in their respective industries. The people who could afford to purchase these machines did so in large numbers to displace workers rather than putting these machines at people’s disposal. It has always come with a carrot and a cane.
@@goldengibson1958 Also remember that those machines were industrialized, which required a collection of resources to be operational…
This meant that someone working from the home would be unable to have access to everything required to run one of these machines, and must then be reliant on the owner of the machine at the machine’s location to do the work…
Many things changed all at once with the industrialized revolution, and workers becoming more disposable/interchangeable was a sought after by-product; by those looking to increase profits and decrease labor costs.
As a Gen Xer, I was on the front line as technology started becoming of everyday life. It was exciting at first and seemed to open up the world. I worked in IT for decades and went from "Technology Can Unlock Human Potential" to "We are wasting our lives with this stuff". Since the early 2000s, nothing but distraction has been the direction of big tech. We need to evolve more as beings before empowering ourselves with more tech. Ever single development reflects the dark nature of humanity with email, social media, etc just degenerating into grifts and scams. We shouldn't be so connected until we are at a place where we have more positive attributes to share with the world.
Greatest comment, thanks for putting it so well (fellow Gen X-er)!
Love this. Twenty years later, we’re still adapting to cell phones and social media! We are in no way prepared for AI. You’re right, new tech has only been a distraction… mainly away from the deeper work we should be doing as a society.
I'd like to point out that often the people that know about how tech works the most, often uses the latest tech the least. Most programmers I know avoid social media, avoids subscriptions services, keeps their old smartphones, etc. It's always the people that doesn't know how computers work that shame others for not getting the newest technology.
It's like that meme with the bell curve. On one end you have people who know very little about technology (the ones you could actually call luddites) using it very little. In the middle it's most people that use a lot of technology, and on the other end you have people that understand technology the most also using it very little.
Wow, you're absolutely right about this. I think it comes down to knowing what you're getting out of the tools you have available and simply choosing the ones that offer the most at the best price point.
As a webdev I'm actively participating in the bloatware that every website is now, no company resist the ability to add tracking to their sites apparently. I've been toying with the Lynx text-based browser to remove that JS boot time.
@@douglaswright4716 Yeah, seriously. Both front end and back end. I had an interview the other day where someone looked at my backend nodejs code the following exchange happened.
Him: Have you used GraphQL?
Me: I've heard of it but I haven't had a chance to look at it.
Him: Can you agree that GraphQL is better than in this case?
Me: No... I've never used it.
He wanted me to say GraphQL, an API backend, would have been better to build my API backend on top of...
And yeah, for the front end, if I'm building something for a job, I'm using reactjs. But if I'm building something for myself, I built a basic framework where it's react-like, but doesn't require code compilation, external libraries AND does on-demand module/library loading and unloading. I think it redraws the screen fewer times than reactjs does too, but I haven't measured it.
This and the Yanis interview are very much needed discussions.
I loved the Yanis interview. Political campaign contributions from the "Asset Management Class" have completely compromised the ability of our elected officials to implement economic policy that benefits the average citizens. Are you familiar with the Citizens United v. FEC Supreme Court case from 2010?
Yes. These 2 interviews are his best
This reminds me of the kind of rhetoric banks use. I periodically get letters in the mail from my bank that go something like, "we have restructured out fees to serve you better!" Every time, they go up, or give you less for the same cost. I'm not really sure how this "serves me better."
I often get called a luddite, but I am just not an early adopter, I love technology but I tend to be a tech utilitarian instead of fetishist, lol.
The Luddites are very interesting and I have been happy to call myself a Luddite since I was a teenager. Great episode. As it happens I have been programming since I was 11 and using computers daily since I was 7. It is so nice to hear folks point out that you can understand tech without supporting the tech industry.
50:10 "If you have no journalists, what is the AI gonna make shit out of?" The same can be said of writers, programmers, 2D artists, etc.! Creativity doesn't happen in a vacuum. Ideas only have meaning in the context of other ideas. Like, there's nothing "generative" about it. It's pure immitation.
It's refreshing to see someone else be pissed about this. I'm tired feeling like it's just me.
Objecting only that the quality of the product suffers is less than half of the problem of automation. Whenever your job becomes easier, your boss realizes that you can now do more work. Either you lose your job or someone else's work is dropped into your lap (and they lose their job). Then, since there's a bigger fear of losing your job and not being able to find another, a third person's work is dropped into your lap (and they lose their job). Your hours are increased, you do not receive the extra pay for the extra work, and because of the threat of permanent unemployment your boss can now do all kinds of things to you without you defending yourself.
Drop out. Start a coop.
This person gets it.
@@dogeared100my chickens are ready.
I remember when we got to talk directly to a person and had our question answered or problem solved quickly, unlike today when you can spend half a day trying to sort an issue, having to interact with something that just spits out automated responses to specific problems, none of which have a solution for the non standard problem you have. Then after all that you finally get to talk to a real person. Technology is supposed to make lives easier, but it's just made the world ridiculously complex.
The Luddites are a perfect analogy for today's "tech" BS. Thanks for bringing it up.
They were the experts that actually understood the industry and processes involved in producing these products, and knew what the inevitable consequences of buying the sales pitch would lead to.
We're in a similar situation today with virtually the entire population believing the sales pitch and having even less understanding of how digital technology actually works, than the people of that time understood how cloth and cloth products happen.
I know this is supposed to sound inspirational but when you know how history developed after them, then it just sounds really fucking depressing.
@@MCArt25 It is both depressing and frightening. We are still in the very early days of integrating this tech into our societies and cultures, but we're rushing into long term decisions without any understanding of what can and will happen as we turn surrender our own autonomy to what is essentially misunderstood, defective magic.
@@MCArt25Then do what they couldn’t do. Don’t let the world devolve into another Gilded Age/Victorian Age
When Adam said MP3 player I heard a piece of my hip crack
Everyone should read this book. Very well written, and shows how the real history differs from how the Luddites were later portrayed
I find that Facebook works well for finding community events around me. Just use it to facilitate real life interactions. Put the tech in its place.
This needs more visibility. I strongly agree
Meet up is better imo
I recently read a book (published in the year of my birth, 1962) about the Irish potato famine(s). Judging from the actions (and inactions) of the British government it's no surprise that they acted so horribly to the workers. Also, I just saw a video of a Waymo driverless taxi being set on fire in San Fransico, telling us the Luddites are alive and well!
Time to stop the machines with our wooden shoes......
Second Thought said that socialists like tech for tedious and heavy labor cause in socialism people would worry less about livelihoods. I like tech.
@@user-gu9yq5sj7c in socialism is the key phrase there. Tech in the economic system we are in now is mostly used to track workers so that Key Performance Indicators can be increased thus increasing stress and labor. I worked at a medical products warehouse and in the 2 years I worked there the amount of stuff we were supposed to pick per hour more than doubled.
The "waymo" cars, are actually being piloted by underpaid humans in 3rd world countries too......
sabot - age
The big problem is that the rewards of automation and higher productivity are not shared. The very rich grab the majority of the benefits.
And as said in the video, there is still something to be said for hand made products and yes, music made by musicians and books written by authors and paintings by painters and photos by photographers and ...
Ordered a copy of Brian's book.
If we're talking about artists fighting back I wonder if Adam knows about Glaze and nightshade? Adversarial tech to protect visual artists from datascraping
I think it's worth mentioning that projects like Nightshade and Glaze have echoes of the Luddite movement in their implementation. Where in the past you disrupted capital by smashing the machines, you can't do that with software. But you can intentionally spike the software with bad data, functionally throwing sand in the metaphorical gears with the stated goal of ensuring that art must be appropriately licensed for use in a model lest your model ingest bad data and become more costly to train and operate.
Was looking for a comment mentioning it. More artists and other creatives need to know about this technology
I think you could argue that Glaze and especially Nightshade are the direct parallel to smashing the machines, actually. The "machine" these techbros use to replace workers isn't the physical computers and servers, after all, but their software. Their models. Their _data._ And that is what Nightshade targets.
@@HinekoAkahiI think anybody that is against this is against what they pretend to support. I hope it helps and doesn't lead to an arms war between artists and these thieving companies. They could most definitely pay artists to create for them but don't because we've been uploading all of our creations onto the platforms they already own. They have no shame, no sense of morality. The only way forward is to rebel. Most of the good people throughout history were breaking the law. Governments will not be on our side
I was born in the early sixties, I can remember a guy I worked for getting one of the first cell phones, and was like “ nice dog collar you got there “. Turns out, staying connected means, I own you 😂
They're data farming. The tech is only a means to collect data that they use or sell.
Yaris Varoufakis' "Technofeudalism" is excellent reading to help us understand much of what big tech is pulling. I believe Adam interviewed him about it as well. One note these guys failed to mention: we're being asked to give up our leisure and autonomy by purchasing the latest tech, but we're also expected to shell out those big bucks ourselves, to benefit the companies we must use them for.
Tech advancement is about productivity which means eliminating workers which wouldn't be so bad if there was a system in place that redistributed those gains directly back to workers.
But where we are all too poor to buy anything...?
There are probably millions of people like me in a non-organizable workspace in the financial/insurance sector - very vulnerable to AI but completely unseen and not even in the conversation about whose jobs are going to be impacted.
Dude every job besides manual labor is in danger with AI.
When I worked in the produce years ago, there was this company that would try to push free trials of their automated packing machine at every shop I worked at. Besides chewing through our power supply and taking up a stupid amount of space, they pretty much shredded everything that was put through them, and break down constantly.
And of course when yet another trial of, likely the same, machine from the last shop I worked at rolled around again. Nobody would believe that this awesome revolution in automation would be a slower that using a manual produce wrapping machine. As everything had to be cut into thin slices placed on a styrofoam tray, and likely still jam the stupid thing because it was fed through too fast or not exactly in right way. Also customers used to buying pumpkin in halves or quarters, didn't want thin slices with added waste in the form of all the trays they don't want.
It seems to me the problem isn't technology itself, but a complete disregard for people and a lack of legislators willing to keep these rich folks from using tech tools to enrich themselves by harming everyone else.
Loved Brian on TMR, excited for this interview.
I'm trying to stay away from the internet as much as possible but its so hard. I loved life in the 90's, we were always out and interacting with people, things, events.
Not going to lie, I am a tech fan boy who works in the tech industry and think there should be many regulations on Tech globally. The only issue with tech is since there is no global rules regulating tech, no one will put on guard rails on since global competitors will likely not.
We are now officially in a cyberpunk dystopia when a tech nerd becomes a freedom fighter
the key point about the Luddites... and although it was implied I don't think Adam and Brian made the point nearly as strongly as they should have... was that they weavers were absolutely DEVASTATED by the mechanical looms. They went from being well-paid, skilled craftsmen to competing with unskilled laborers in the ugliest depths of the early Industrial Revolutions. They lost their homes, they lost their families, they starved and died. It took generations for them to recover, those that did. Now we are the new Luddites only the AI robots threaten ALL jobs. Do ya get the picture?
Grew up before the smartphone and wow what a difference in public, especially our and about
Rad. Big fan of Brian. Patiently waiting for my signed copy of Blood in the Machine for our collection of “AI” books at the studio. ;)
14:14 "But when the world needed him most, he vanished."
Beat Saber and Elite Dangerous continue to be the only reason for VR to exist, lol. Makes VR headsets a very expensive single trick pony.
As someone working at a company who's absolutely bringing in the corporate version of Microsoft's AI, the companies doing this are *absolutely* intending on having this stuff replace workers. We even had upper management do a whole spiel last week about how they're relying on us to properly train the AI on how to do our jobs. lol
Look forward to watching this beyond the intro, especially since, as someone who works in the tech industry, I’ve always struggled with the oddness of feeling like a Luddite. The intro is spot on. I have a similar feeling about capitalism. Is it just coincident, or are there deep ties between the challenges we see in big tech?
26:47 I didn't hear about this. That's insidious. That's worse than sub-contracting.
The thing I find funny is how hard it is for humans with experience to write a decent script and they want to make it automated. Heck, wouldn't that be the definition of derivative too?
I argue that they understood the logical conclusion of automation that we’re facing. Ada Lovelace (Lord Byron’s daughter) used punch cards created for these looms the luddites destroyed to create the first programmable computer. They theorized thinking machines that could automate intellectual work.
I never felt like that working at circuit city seeing the same manufacturers manipulate the market via brands they own, not technological advancement but a vulture production for profit.
If cell phones didn’t exist anymore and I had to have a wall phone again the only things I’d miss are my weather and calculator app.
Excellent discussion. Another great read talking about technology and capitalism in regards to fabric production is "Empire of Cotton".
Thanks for this rec, it looks great! I've read a decent amount about historical textile production generally but have found it harder to find accessible work (ie not dissertations or university press works that cost $100+) on the impact of this kind of thing on society.
OH HELL YES. I loved Brian's book and I love seeing him talk about this topic!
Whether it's the 18th century or the 21st, the problem isn't the technology. The problem is _capitalism._
Took 5 minutes into the interview and I ordered the book! Very interesting discussion.
This podcast is killing it. Thanks for another great episode Adam.
The only issue I have with PS's auto fill tools is that there is no way it was only trained with materials licensed to be used to train AI models. If these generative AI applications were trained only on data that they own and/or purchased the rights to that would be fine, I suspect that if that was the case then these tools would be near useless though.
yeap...thats my intuition aswell. Its probably the same data dump than Midjourney or the others used abusing the law in regards of academic research
There was a scandal in the creative community about six months ago when it came out that Adobe had buried in their ToS that they were allowed to access any files you saved to your cloud for the purpose of training their AI. Then they had the nerve to come out and call it, "ethically sourced." They later claimed you could opt-out, but I've stopped using my cloud storage entirely. They've proved they can't be trusted.
@@mhudson_illustration Its fascinating that this wasn't bigger news, it saddens me to think that even companies as big and "trust worthy" are using tricks to steal data to "train" their copy paste machines
Great show and timely interview!
I always find the "Technology is taking our jobs" argument fascinating, because that's not actually a criticism of the technology itself. It's a criticism of the fact that we're financially obligated to work, or else we can't pay for goods and services, and we perish. If we lived in a society with universal basic income, would we feel the same way?
Yes, it’s the usual class warfare propaganda. The immigrants took your job. The tech took your job. The boomers, or the gen zers took your job.
Somehow the finger is never pointed at the guy who fired you and had no respect for your contribution to his riches.
This was an excellent conversation. I'm going to recommend it to my students. Thanks for another great interview
The problem with saying, "AI is doing it worse than a human" is that the corporation doesn't really care about quality as much as it cares about revenue.
Terrific episode, thank you.
Yea !! An argument for the Luddite. Bonus:
has an avatar and a mythos. Best vid ever ❤️
Lovely discussion! I truly want to get involved in this discussion and educate myself but i dont know where to start.
For what it’s worth, there are high-tech “hammers” being developed to prevent image-generation AIs from being trained off of people’s work.
I'm a proud Union #MPC705 Patternmaker-Fitter (costume maker). BIG thanks for Brian Merchant for this incredible bit of history regarding Luddites + their textile history- and thanks to Adam for featuring him. As our IATSE contract negotiations just started (and we're preparing to STRIKE if need be), I think its important to keep experienced, educated and highly skilled artisans like us + our many, many brothers & sisters employed at a living wage.... Particularly as we fight corporations/AI "dumbing down" the quality of our work in the name of profit. Sharing the video + book info with collegues!❤
I loved the 1st iPhone cuz it was also an iPod. Only thing dumb about it was it wouldn't let you delete songs once you added them. It lasted 10 years then the battery burned out. I could easily check the time and take photos quickly. Now I have an iPhone 14 that I hate. Processes are slowed, such as now I have to enter my password because the thumb print never worked. Also, it does all kinds of out of control stupid stuff sometimes.
thanks for talking about these things
Corporations hate efficiency and it's punished by giving more work, saying that you're not working hard enough.
Fantastic topic choice.
👋Adam! Pet peeve on headline/title (and you're not the only one I've seen do this!)
Phrasing indicates at first glance (to me) that Big Tech is USING Brian Merchant to ruin our lives, and I wondered exactly what he was doing to us?!
There must be a better format; emdash, colon, parantheses with "ft."?
My confusion at this common format choice in no way implies my actual mastery of grammar.
But if I am at first confused (then amused) others must be, mustn't they?!
Another great interview!! It is amazing how entertaining and satisfying intelligence and intelligent people can be!
I've been watching this "Beneficial AGI Summit 2024". They have been talking about gamifying AI. Get ready for the fun.
I enjoy a lot of digital tools as a creative person, but i also have my limits and I have several backups of my offline work machine and I have 0 plans to upgrade. All my movies, shows, books, music and games are also on several backups. I knew the script would flip at some point and it has.
Weaving at home wasn't really a great life. They had to have the whole family working the loom all day to make enough to live on. Better than the industrial mill, though. Best book on this period: E.P. Thompson _The Making of the English Working Class._ Best films on US labor history: _Plutocracy_ (5 parts), part one here: czcams.com/video/zDQjtRufr3M/video.html
It's telling that the people who built Sora didn't speak to film makers and ask "what would make it easier and faster for you to make films? Where do you spend a lot of time that you wish you didn't have to?" Same thing with ChatGPT, same thing with Claud's analytics abilities. These were crafted with the product goal of replacing workers entirely, rather than solving their productivity barriers. This is why I love Epic--UE5 and previous versions were built specifically to solve the problems that users of the technology identified and asked for. I feel bleak about the AI entertainment product future, it seems like it's going be an avalanche of garbage.
The Armor and the Light, by Ken Follett, covers a lot of this. It was just released last year, and is part of the Kingsbridge series. Totally recommend.
My main use for AI now is writing plugins for blender. I'm not a coder, (3d Designer) and there are very specific things I could make easier for myself. I started with basically creating elaborate macros, but since then I've figured out how to use it to create full-blown plugins that don't have a comparable option out there. So that's my main use-case, but I absolutely understand the dangers of big companies using it to try and maximize their bottom line, screwing over their workers in the process.
The coder who should be paid to make the plug-ins is out of work. You aren't a tech giant, but you're using tech instead of paying a skilled worker. I used to make a good living as a translator for academic papers. My old clients use AI to do it for free. I use Uber instead of taking a taxi or the bus. It's easy to blame big tech, but if we all just use the cheaper and more convenient option, we're all equally to blame.
Happy 250!
I feel the exact same way. Started out in the 80ties and technology was getting us things we needed, now it is pushing out new unnecessary products without even considering if they are needed. Marketing took over engineering department.
There are absolutely places where the 'mill machinery' to smash is on these algorithms. The data centers are vulnerable to backhoes, or even just shovels and axes. A concerted effort to destroy the fiber cables going in and out of data centers hosting crypto farms and generative AI servers would absolutely have an effect, though it would require a concerted effort across multiple locations. If you wanted to get hard core with it damage the cooling systems. Do enough damage all at once and you'd fry the servers.
You would do a little more than that. You would take down things you didn't intend to take down. Like traffic control systems, financial services, medical services, small businesses, government services and emergency services like 911, 999 or 000. Many of these data centers are decentralised with multiple layers of redundancy, so you have to take down multiple locations across several countries at the same time. Why do you think they couldn't take down Wikileaks and the pirate bay?
Fiber optics are usually bundled with underground power lines and are part of the telecommunication infrastructure. It wouldn't be ordinary cops they would send after you. It would be the guys in black helicopters, drones equipped with missiles and men in black stealth suits and night vision.
When my local provider network went down in November last year it took out not only the internet but the mobile phone network, street lights, traffic lights, EFTPOS machines and all because of a software update that caused the network to shut down to protect itself. It only lasted for a day (14 hours) and cost the company $61 million. Not to mention a massive compensation payout to thousands of users and businesses. And that was just a mistake. The weather did worse over Christmas, power, cell and internet services were out for weeks for some Queenslanders.⛈
That's why America spends more on just their police then every other country but China spends on their entire _military._ That's why these companies hire off duty cops, bc they can just use their _qualified immunity_ to straight up merc anyone who even looks funny at their property. The next world war is gonna be against these disgusting megacorporations
Yeah there is absolutely no benefit for the public in regards to VR. It's cool, but there is no real use case aside from gaming. I mean you can do some virtual training, but that also eliminates more jobs and consolidates wealth. We are truly living in a nightmare for regular people now.
I disagree. I have a wheel chair bound aunt prone to depression, and I myself am autistic. (Very sensitive to my environment)
The vision pro is very helpful and beneficial for people like us who actually need it. (As with all things, really. It’s good only if you need it.)
great listen so far
Any technology is useful in specific circumstances! The problem is just like y'all said - finding who it benefits and making sure it's benefitting the people using it, not just the people selling it. The vision pro could be useful for designers and engineers. AI is useful for medical and academic research teams, artists (in some small instances/tools), etc. But too many tech companies want to build a thing for the sake of building it, not thinking about how it will be used to benefit anyone.
As someone in tech, it's disheartening. People will build an open source library that forms the baseline of thousands of useful tools and get nothing for it, while someone else creates a bunch of buzz words and is given millions.
3 reasons why they banned AI in the Dune universe:
Humans had become over-reliant on thinking machines, with AI managing vital parts of their societies. This dependency left humanity vulnerable to manipulation and potential control. The presence of thinking machines was seen as dehumanizing. People feared that reliance on AI would erode human problem-solving abilities, creativity, and ultimately the human spirit.
There was a growing belief that AI would develop to the point where it would turn against humanity, either out of a desire for self-preservation or because of flawed programming.
The ban on AI put the emphasis back on human development, leading to highly-trained specialists, complex political and social systems, and enhanced physical and mental abilities in some humans.
The end result from it getting out of control? A strict commandment that became a cornerstone of human society: "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind." This outlawed all forms of advanced AI and computers, and breaking this rule is punishable by death.
In your view are we headed for a Dune universe?
Maybe.
For now I see the use of AI for "generating infinite custom content" instantaneously and effortlessly as a way for someone to stop being amazed by anything and turn their own life even more miserable than before.
Sure, it will feel incredible at first, but just like using game breaking cheats in a videogame you just bought, it becomes boring very quickly. People seek a form of struggle to achieve things. Even artificially added. It is why you get people assembling a puzzle instead of just printing it. Why people want to finish dark souls using their feet. Why someone wants to spend weeks painting some cool picture of a landscape instead of taking a photo.
This is why I think an outcome like Dune is a possibility. Some might enjoy the idea of sitting on a couch and be fed entertainment for the rest of their lifes, but most people will eventually start thinking this to be a miserable lifestyle. Struggle gives a purpose.
OMG Yess
They say there on the cutting edge but are simply spitting to sell somthing
Crunchyroll one moment, probably gonna end up doing Jack
OpenAI putting a new coat of paint on somthing
Every single bot/generator/bew toy is all just to make them look good
The problem is the people buying the crappy product for cheap. You can't stop people form doing the things they do. If a company finds a cheaper way to make cheap clothing, and people buy it in droves and reward that company for making cheap clothing, then yes that company will thrive. And if that company doesn't do it, some other company will. That's how free markets work.
I think there might be a fundamental flaw with the whole concept of AI, at least for some purposes.
In Science, when we build a model of some physical process, we want to know HOW and WHY the model gives a particular forecast or output. We also want the model's forecast or output to be reproducible, meaning that the same input gives you the same output. Not only does it seem impossible to know WHY AI comes up with a particular result, but the result can not be reproduced because every time you give it a particular quarry, it comes up with a different result. It is then impossible to know WHY the new result is different. Surely this must reduce the usefulness of AI for many applications.
When AI is used to make a decision that impacts peoples lives, there seems to be no way to question the decision and accountability is impossible. This seems uniquely bad for the functioning of democratic and civil society.
Capitalism is fundamentally and inherently opposed to democracy.
To be clear, the current tech industry is driven by its investors. The investors are fully focused on disruption and displacement of other players who are "safe". If any industry is considered safe or reliable, then they want to "disrupt" it, so they can first sell it short, then second capture the pieces of the now fractured entity and upcharge.
Great video as always.
Issue with Illustrator and visual artists in general is there are no unions… we are mostly on our own… slowly watching all streams arround us getting flooded with AI crap…
As I listened to this, I also looked at recent ocean temp. charts - very disturbing. It struck me that climate is the biggest reason to reject much of modern tech, unless it’s carbon-free. So far, AI usage has increased carbon waste. Solving cold fusion won’t help much if we’re far past the tipping point.
Great interview!
Nightshade is the way!
Yes! Everyone (not just artists-- everyone!) who uploads images anywhere online should use Nightshade and Glaze. These programs wreck genAI art if enough of us use it. We CAN break today's exploitative machines. ;)
What is that?
From just the first five minutes this guy has no clue how cottage industries worked so he didn't do any research at all. They may have only spent 30 hours a week working on their textiles but that's because they also had to work the fields for their food (not just go out and hoe for an hour because they 'felt' like it), chop firewood for not only warmth but light and cooking, had to prepare their food for cooking (such as slaughtering the animal, chucking the peas, grinding the grain, etc.), plus all the other associated chores of farm work. The textiles cottage industry of England wasn't separate from the farm workers but was used by them to supplement their income. It wasn't some easy, idyllic life like he's portraying it but extra work on top of their ordinary necessary work. It would be like someone having a regular 40 hour a week job then working a second job for another 20 hours a week for extra income and then saying that guy only really works 20 hours a week.
Are you saying that people who worked in factories don't have to do those things?
@@markrussell1606 No, the people who worked in the factories during the industrial revolution didn't have to do those things. They moved from the farms into the city to work at the factory. This guy made it seem as though those who worked textiles from their home were living some idyllic life, that was far from the truth. They engaged in the cottage industries to supplement their income. They worked their farms as normal and then spent extra time doing the textile work. Like I said, they had a full time job then worked a part time job on top of it. Those who moved to the city to work in the factories did that as their full time job, presumably because by doing so they were increasing their economic prospects. One of the reasons that became attractive to them was that this was the period of European Imperial expansion and food and raw material imports from the colonies undercut the local prices. They found themselves unable to compete with those cheaper goods and were losing what little ability they had for economic gain. It is somewhat analogous to when factory jobs began to disappear when companies started to outsource their manufacturing overseas because labor costs were so much cheaper. Or even similar to how retail businesses are replacing workers with automatic checkout. The main difference is that there was far fewer ways to earn a living during the Renaissance than there is today and there were no social programs available for the unemployed.
@robo5013 My dude, I live in the present time, and I know plenty of people who work at factories and do those things rn. I think you are making a generalization. To be fair, so is he, but the point still needs to be made. My industrialization knowledge is mostly limited to the United States, but I know for a fact that when people moved to the cities, they brought their animals, and they had to outlaw them city by city over a period of time. Adapting to new heating sources also takes time. These rural people did not urbanize overnight.
@@markrussell1606 So you haven't studied ancient and medieval history for forty years like I have but know it better than me? And those people that you know that work in factories farm several acres with hoes and shovels, don't use pesticides or modern weed control chemicals plus maintain several sheep, chickens and pigs while still putting in forty hours at their job? Also what happened in America doesn't reflect Europe, especially since there wasn't really a wool industry in America. Sheep farming didn't start here until the latter half of the 19th century after westward expansion and even today sheep make up less than 1% of livestock in America. No one moving to the cities in Europe during the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution would have been able to bring their sheep with them as there would have been no pastures for them. Chickens and pigs would have already been kept in those cities because even poorer people living there kept them as they take up little room while sheep require at least an acre for up to six. That type of land would not be available in the city.
I wasn't generalizing but explaining exactly how it worked. And the guest wasn't generalizing either he literally stated that those peasants that worked the textiles at home (what cottage industry means) would go for walks, chat with their neighbors for hours and maybe hoe the garden for a bit if they felt like it. Not only was that not generalizing but it was completely wrong. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in saying he did no research so was ignorant otherwise he is straight up lying. Either way I'm not going to listen to anything else he has to say because that is also either ignorance or lies.
First of all, if you have 40 years in this field, why are you getting into CZcams squabbles with some random blue collar worker. Write a paper or something, this is a bad look.
Second of all, it is interesting that you bring up modern agribusiness. Do you think the people I know who work in a factory want to work in a factory? These are the few people who have been able to hold on to their land in the face of highways coming through and, ironically, given that you mentioned it, the sweeping controls on farming sheep in the us pushed by big cattle. They would much rather work on their farms, but just like the Luddites and the people going up against big tech, they have been pushed out of the profession of their fore fathers by corporate greed and government interference in the market.
The point the guy wasn't that their life wasn't hard, it was that they had control over it. Sure all of the work that goes into running a medieval farm cannot be understated, but a medieval peasant could do any of the things he described at any time. You know this. Don't pretend that a quick summarization for an interview is the entire body of his work.
I know piles of people who own an occulus, myself included. However I don't know anyone who uses it for more than gaming. Facebook is definitely creating products like what you are explaining but at the end of the day it's a gaming device and that's what it's likely to continue being since otherwise nobody will buy it.
It's still a luxury good. Technologies propagate as they improve and reduce cost. That said, it's a much easier purchase for gaming than trying to compete with a phone or laptop.
This was a really good topic.
What I'm learning from this is that Ned Ludd's Army needs to rise again.