The Building Was Cold But The HVAC System Was Flaming Hot!
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 9. 07. 2024
- Carrier package unit had flames rolling out the front of it and a couple other problems. Just like any other service call you work your way through it repairing as you go. Check out the video and leave a comment. Have you had this happen before?
- Purchase your tools at www.trutechtools.com?aff=13 and use the offer code SURVIVAL to save 8% on your total purchase (exclusions may apply) -
D-Tek Stratus Detector trutechtools.com/Inficon-D-TE... 13 nt-Leak-Detector-and-Portable-Monitor?aff=
D-Tek 3 Detector trutechtools.com/inficon-d-te...
- TOOLS I USE -
FULL LIST ON THIS PAGE - kit.co/hvacrsurvival
SHORT LIST IS BELOW
KNIPEX Tools - 10" Pliers Wrench amzn.to/3U7RRJf
KNIPEX Tools - 10" Cobra Water Pump Pliers amzn.to/3Wje8Wn
Knipex Tools - Mini Pliers in Belt Pouch amzn.to/3WguyyH
KNIPEX Tools - 4" Cobra XS Water Pump Pliers amzn.to/3UaQiKA
Bahco -6" Wide Mouth Adjustable Wrench amzn.to/3sHIsMV
Bahco - 8" Big-Mouth Adjustable Wrench with Rubber Handle - amzn.to/3SPhDB7
Knipex - 9.5-Inch Ultra-High Leverage Lineman's Pliers amzn.to/3DTLJ2h
Klein Tools Diagonal Cutting Pliers with Angled Head - amzn.to/3zuBVJb
Klein Tools Stripper, Crimper Tool - amzn.to/3gQQ6Su
Klein Tools Wire Cutter and Wire Stripper - amzn.to/3Fs627W
Klein Tools Kurve Wire Cutters, Heavy Duty Wire Stripping Tool - amzn.to/3FseIuW
Klein Tools Heavy Duty Automatic Wire Stripper - amzn.to/3SQdZab
Klein Tools Crimping and Cutting Tool - amzn.to/3TPIgXU
Klein Tools Screwdriver Adjustable 4 to 8-Inch amzn.to/3Nl6KWz
IDEAL INDUSTRIES Digital Circuit Breaker Finder - amzn.to/3DoBFwm
Fluke 376FC AC/DC Clamp Meter with iFlex - amzn.to/3UaNyx2
Fluke 62 Max Industrial Infrared Thermometer - amzn.to/3SNdwWg
Fluke 902 FC HVAC True-RMS Clamp Meter - amzn.to/3Ws7OfB
Fluke 87V MAX - amzn.to/3U6Rlv9
Fluke Networks Pro3000 Tone Generator - amzn.to/3WedklG
Fluke - FLUKE-52 Dual Input Digital Thermometer amzn.to/3zwFdf1
Ideal Safe-T-Grip Fuse Puller - amzn.to/3zsw2w4
Klein Tools Canvas Zipper Bag - amzn.to/3WgnJxq
Uni-Paint PX-20 Oil-Based Paint Marker - amzn.to/3sE3R9T
5 Gallon Bucket Topper and Organizer - amzn.to/3sGi2Ll
Stabila Magnetic Pocket Level PRO with Holster - amzn.to/3FtYLo0
Clip & Carry Kydex Multitool Sheath for LEATHERMAN SURGE - amzn.to/3TPJfHA
Kydex Multitool Sheath for LEATHERMAN WAVE & WAVE + PLUS - amzn.to/3sJlhlg
Cooper Atkins Thermistor Thermometer - amzn.to/3DLeHkC
GEARWRENCH Internal/External Ratcheting Puller 7 Ton 2 or 3 Jaw - amzn.to/3FxTU5l
đ„ Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/ref=as_li_ss_t...
- CONTACT INFO -
hvacrsurvival@gmail.com
- FOLLOW ME -
Instagram - / hvacrsurvival
Facebook - / hvacrsurvival
Warning Notice Disclaimer - Video content listed on the channel HVAC*R Survival is for entertainment purposes only and not meant to be a substitute for not contacting a competent HVAC/R PROFESSIONAL. Do not attempt anything said or seen on my videos, The tasks that are shown are dangerous and deadly without proper training.
This page contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on the link and make a purchase, Iâll receive a small commission. HVAC/R Survival is a participant in the Trutechtools, Fenix-Store & Amazon Services LLC Associates Program.
00:00 TruTechTools Save 8% with CODE SURVIVAL
00:20 No heat on Carrier package system
00:55 Found the first problem
01:57 checking error history
02:59 How i tighten a belt drive motor
03:51 checking for clean air filters
05:52 main problem has been found still need to know why
07:11 checking the heat exchanger for cracks or damage
08:05 now we know why is was burning the wires
10:38 tig welding a new male end on the gas manifold
12:04 reinstall the gas valve and burners
12:53 repairing the burnt wiring with butt connectors
14:37 how did this all happen is easy to see when you check the gas line
16:10 restarting the system and verify operation - ZĂĄbava
You need a "NO STEP" sign on that gas line. Now you know why they add an extra 10 feet of wire to each device. Nice to have a welder handy. You done good.
Thanks Max! Much appreciated. Thank you for watching.
I was thinking someone stood on the gas line to get a look at the condenser fans, great video Rick
That's what I thought at first as well. Who knows at this point.
That looks just like the one I got called on 10 years ago. The "head engineer" of the hotel jumped out all the safety controls. Heat exchanger was toast you could see through it not like it was a small crack or anything. First time I ever got out my side cutters and basically stripped the unit on the spot to make sure he didn't kill someone. This was for a conference room they had 500 people booked for
Sounds like the rent house we moved into in 2006. The only thing I asked of the landlord was to have the heating fixed before we moved in. I went up in the attic, and I could see through the side of the unit, the cracks were so bad. (and I'm an IT guy. I just spent years growing up in a 'if you can fix it, do it. It's cheaper, and you know what the idiot actually did to repair it.' family.)
Canât fix stupid!
@@adammalzahn7238 - You can, but unfortunately we're forced to make everything 'too safe'. Used to be the person making the mistake was the first casualty. Now they have time to get away.
Yikes! That guy should have gone to prison for pulling a stunt like that, those kind of "repairs" are a good way to get someone killed!
Should be court action and jail time for jumping out safety switches in hotel or homes.
Industrial sized flame thrower đ
Man, the stuff you run across. Nice adopt and overcome with a little help from your welder. The customer probably has little idea how fortunate they are.
You likely correct, if I were able to show and convey how different things are done in my part of the country it might make more sense to some viewers but itâs all about perspective. Thanks for the support Jay đ€đ€đđ
Well, that one scares one to death. Nice work. I always enjoy the thoroughness, not stopping at the single problem that brought you there, but recertifying the entire systems.
Thanks đđ
@@HVACRSurvival HEAT YOUR BELLY BUTTON
Amazing Rick! You went the extra mile for the customer. Most techs would just red tag the unit until the customer payed for a new manifold.
From what I'm hearing they parts aren't there. Were waiting on carrier infinity stats, controls, and other parts. It would have likely taken a min of 2-3 weeks. I like to fix stuff, it's the farm life sneaking in lol
@@HVACRSurvival I agree with you and your way of thinking and fixing things is exactly the farmers way and that's how I was raised and I do the same thing if I can make a small weld to keep them with heat I keep a wire welder 120 volt on my van so small things are no problem if they still need a new exchanger or manifold I'll replace it when the new one comes in
@@donaldpainter956 that's wild having a wire welder on the truck đđđ get it đđ
@@HVACRSurvival a familiar trait of people with a rural background... the fabric that made this country great a one time!
In the alarm section when the alarms are displayed likeâT155â you can presss escape and enter together simultaneously and it will read out the alarms! And also can do the same thing to read out abbreviations! Happy HVACING
Great job, Rick! Nice to have the ability to weld that. We had a rooftop gas unit that had caught on fire once. It was on a zone system (zone control panel was bad). Apparently the unit was tripping out on high limit, so someone (not us) decided the fix was to remove the limit switch. Then the VFD failed, blower was not running, and Everything melted.
Wow, It's amazing how some people would do something like that.
I have bypassed safeties in the past. Supposed to be temporary. Quote sent to customer. They refused. Said it was heating fine. So I no longer jump safeties for customers. Just not worth the liability.
Hope the invoice said "removed the thing that stops your building from burning down"
Rick-great work...change out that limit...mixed with the oil residue all over the place ..it could have been a real smoker
Swing joint should be installed, with that piping sticking out unsupported!
Didn't knew fire was involved in hvac unit đ„”đ„¶
It's all the rage now a daysđ€Ł
@@HVACRSurvival đđđ
You would have never had thought. I wish you could have showed us where to reposition the rollout switch .
I didn't move it.
I love how fucked this was. Melted wires everywhere. Great. From a UK Gas engineer, well done. Great content. Thanks.
đđđ€đ€
I work on swimming pools. Pool heater rollout sensor is not resetting. Once it's toasted, it needs to be replaced after the rollout condition is fixed.
Great work on the repair and I definitely want to see more commercial heating videos
Will dođđ
A very good, and competent repair. Well done! Actually pulled their butt out of the fire on this one.
đ€đ€đđ
At what point does this become a legal matter...
& people forced to become accountable!
@@jimbass924 Maybe a short flex connector to provide a strain relief wouldn't be a bad idea for some roof-top installations.
I was a number at my company too, 1 of 35 service tech's, or 1 of 450 represented by union. Had steam fitters, plumbers, electricians, sprinkler fitters, controls, sheet metal, refer fitters and service techs. Came in handy when in situations like you were in.
We have over 100 employees, 12 tech's several installers, electricians, plumbers, controls guys, but they treat us good for the most part.
@@HVACRSurvival That's good, sometimes when bigger you can be forgotten. I was lead senior service tech., wished they could forget me some days.
@@GlenS123 35 techs is really big, what city was that in?
@@HVACRSurvival The suburbs of Milwaukee, WI
Nice thing it was a shop to weld it quickly. Good thing you spotted that? Something must have hit it and to much pressure as weight all on pipe.
That wiring toast it would have all came out and redone. Shocked they put a resettable cutout on it? Nice to have the gas going actually going though burners to exchanger instead of compartment.
I got confused about the burners on the HVAC but then I forgot that we dont need heaters in my country
đđđ.
Nice job Rick! The ignition control module should lock out the heat with the roll out, carrier does all their units that way, reset the power it will try again.
It did lock it out but they kept resetting it so that caused it to happen over and over.
@@HVACRSurvival I got that from the video but if your resetting any problem it's just gonna try again, only manual resets are on resi furnace right? Most commercial is all auto reset roll out.... or am I wrong đ€
it tries 3 times than goes into hard lock out
@@ping_me1vp I don't think so, with the roll out it should lock out. Now to prove ignition you are correct, it will try 3 times.
HVAC open heart (burn) surgery. Well done đ
All of years I did this not once did I see anyone use a auto rest roll out switch like you said thatâs stupid but Carrier never failed to surprise me on their equipment.
If maintenance wouldn't have been resetting it over and over it wouldn't have been as bad but that's why you don't rely on the electronic control board to shut it down.
Not sure what a roll out switch does but electrical substations will generally reset up to 3 times with increasing delay and then lock out.
I was glad you were able to unscrew the broken part out of the gas valve, and it didn't screw up the threads on the gas valve. Could have been a lot worse, like gas valve, inducer motor, and all the wiring burned up...and then the customer would have a bill several times higher. As far as something like this happening to me, I had a small package unit that the control board caught on fire, (looked like started from the main blower motor relay), and that spread and toasted a lot of the wiring. Ended up replacing a lot of the wiring like you did, along with a new control board, new 24v transformer, and compressor contactor. I'll post a couple pics on my channel.
What's your channel?
@@HVACRSurvival brnmcc01, just click my avatar, I posted the pics on the community section
Definitely appreciate youâre vids as a upcoming tech myself , Iâm almost done with school. Salute to you for always sharing your work.
Great video..thanks for sharing your time very cool
Good job Rick.
those filters look cleaner then some of the ones i have found at the place i work at -_-
Another awesome job đđđ
great work. nice diagnosis and repair.
You did a really nice job it looks more professional when it came from the factory! Keep up the excellent work. Be careful and watch out for ovens as someone might mistake you for a turkey. Happy Thanksgiving if we don't see you before.lol
I miss doing rooftops ha ha, I do the same thing I look at everything I can I put my hands on stuff I look for all those items you checked off on the box thatâs how you pay attention to this stuff and somebody has to do it at least once or twice a year just to make sure shits not going south, excellent
Thanks for the support and feedback!
Nice work as always Rick.
Nice, comprehensive job.
Another thorough excellent job! Great work!
Thanks for checking it out!
I think a simple way to make the "flame roll out" thing a manual reset by a tech would be a strategically placed thermal fuse. A thermal fuse must be replaced in order to restore operation. Those are often found in heating appliances as a last resort fire protection backup in case the thermostat ever fails.
Just came across your channel and super glad I did thank you for sharing your journey with us keep up the solid work
Awesome! Thank you!
10:11 you turned on optical flow for the smoothing of the panned shot and the cut was sampled too :D
What are you talking about? If you're insinuating that that's not really our shop then where is it, I have better things to do to try to fool people about a repair.
@@HVACRSurvival Just an advice. What I mean is the two clips of the shot were combined BEFORE you slowed it down, which meant the editing program you were using tried to smooth out the cut and resulted in a few frames of gibberish. Slow the clips separately before you stitch them to avoid this :3
I use davinci studio
I always try my best to look out for people especially the elderly or sick
We run gas PLT tubes on machines that are vibrating to keep stuff from this like happening
Looks like this location has been neglected I guess Great work Rick
Great vid!
Great job
Great job as always.
Thanks!
Great vid man!
Thanks Adamđșđș
Nice work!
Thank you!
Nice find!! Don't have heating in the tropics but commercial dryers/ovens are similar
đ Live it up man, its cold here already. It was in the 20s this weekend but is to warm up to the 40s tomorrow.
Nice job!!!!
đ€đ€đđ
Definitely agree should have a manual reset roll out so that way a competent HVAC tech would be called out and see what's going on before resetting the roll out
Amen!
A good way to make sure that a tech must come out to reset something like that would be to use a thermal fuse instead of a switch.
I just bought a new tachometer the one I been using is 18 years old but they will alow you to set the rpms to the exact recommendation
Wow that's a find
Flame on Johnny!!!!
if you hold the esc and enter buttons for about 2-3 sec it will scroll the code description across the screen.
I couldn't remember what two it was, I tried to show that but I gave up and figured it out without the codes. Thanks for sharing that!
Nice well job good Fab shop too bad you didn't have some marshmallows
Interesting comment on the high tension lead as it's laying on the cabinet. Which is ground also. I like to use non-insulated solderless connectors as I get a good look at the crimp as it's made. Course you then have to insulate it with some heat shrink. Get-R-Done!đđ
If you look how I line up my plyers you might be able to notice I look for the end of the metal barrel to line it up to the edge corner of the plyers.
@@HVACRSurvival I can't see schiff through those colored sleeves myself but I have used them. đ
the old gas line steps to the condenser fan motor trick
what the hell my company would fire me for fixing and tell me always get new. lol I miss fixing myself
Sounds like they like selling not fixing.
I have been watching your videos, this one shocked me. You went the extra mile for this one. Looks great repair... Did you do all this the same day?
Yep, I think I was there a total of 3hrs
Great video. Very through. A hater wants to know if you you need wrenches. đ€Šđœââïž
I love my Knipex wrench, it's faster and it never strips the bolt head like some wrenches do
Iâm not a hater I thought that was a good video, I just cringe at the thought of hand spinning a nut or fitting that some amateur previously grabbed with a knipex itâll cut your a.. up! thatâs not hate We just donât always wear gloves
@@daveclawson5185 I know what your saying if they had teeth but they don't and they have incredible down pressure. Thanks for supporting the channel!
Heck yeah.
Would those flames have ever even reached the rollout switch? (Even judging by the burnt wires, I'm not convinced it would have.) Given the size of that burner assembly, I'm surprised they didn't use two.
Edit: I'd be curious if it faulted out on failure to prove flame rather than rollout/limit...and to answer the question, no I've never seen this. Hopefully it wasn't a result of someone being up there and starting to fall...
I think with the door on the flame caused the burners to flash back over and over. The way the wires were burnt on both sides is what leads me to that thought.
hope you chacked the gas pressure on the GV. to insure it was not over firing.
Wow that's a crazy gas leak lucky they're place didn't go up With all the oil and those filters and the furnace leaking Gas đł
True.
Something I noticed is it seems like you showed up on site and went straight to doing general preventative maintenance without actually diagnosing the customer's complaint?
I had already spoken to the maintenance manager, sorry I didn't get that on film for you and get a written letter of recommendation, I went up on the roof and found the problem within a couple minutes what exactly would you have done differently? 90% of these service calls could have been eliminated with proper maintenance. This ain't rocket science.
3:30 You need ratchet wrench.
It's strange to think that USA uses gas? in HVAC to produce heat. We mostly use heat pumps here in Finland (and maybe other Nordic countries).
There's commercial heat pumps available in rooftop units but generally they don't work with a crap when it's 0° Fahrenheit outside. Are you using inverter driven heat pumps on package units? Or are you using mini splits? If you listen to the sound after I use the adjustable crescent wrench to loosen the nuts I'm actually using a socket set. As a service technician I use all of my senses at the same time, touch, feel, smell and hear and sometimes taste. That will make you a better technician if you don't rely on only your eyes.
May not mean much now but do you think someone was being lazy and not using a ladder and used the gas line for a step is what that looked break looked like good video brother
I prefer the Lenox package units seem easy to fix
+1 nice video bro.
I hate butt connectors myself but i use them at times (my preference,not putting you down). When i put wires into connectors, i bend the exposed wire into a "U" shape so you are getting more wire to pinch for a better pinch hold and electrical connection. When the wire is small enough
I did a lot of research on crimp connectors, a lot of people use the pointy end to puncture the crimp connector and that usually does not result in a good crimp on an insulated connector. the second problem is they use cheap crimpers. There's actually a lot of testing behind it but most people don't care to learn. Thanks for checking it outđđ
@@HVACRSurvival ty. I was just sayin.
Carbon monoxide is a killer. Dang!
Would have gone with solder for the wire splices. More reliable, less prone to corrosion with relative moisture flowing through the unit when shrink tubed. Just my opinion. You do you đ
Seemly there's enough Oil mist flying around that Air Handling Cabinet that Corrosion wouldn't be the Issue, very lucky that the Oil laden mist within the Unit carried within that duct work didn't take off, if the Belt Broke, and the filters weren't blocked then Vapour would maybe have filled the unit by Convection, ...that would have been serious, as the Triangle of Fire was there, Oxygen, Fuel and a Source of Ignition... a Virtual BOMB, Houston We Have Lift off... You CAN fight a Fire, but Not an Explosion...
I agree đŻ%. They were lucky!
you know they make a filter box grabber for the side of the building I did it the hard way like that for 10 yrs before I found the grabber no longer 2 people on 20 boxes or 3 at a time up and down ladder.
I have one, not worth getting it out for one box.
I'm surprised that an auto-reset flame rollout switch is even legal. I mean, if there is a flame rollout, it mean that there is an issue that need to be fixed. It's gas and fire, there is no chance to take with that. But seeing how the regulations are all messed up (way too strict here, way too loose there) I'm not surprised.
The way the system was designed was to allow the electronic control to lock it out but they were resetting the power to it causing it to happen over and over again. That's the main issue here.
@@HVACRSurvival Still an unsafe condition IMO. And that is the proof. I mean, people always get told to turn it off and on again for basically everything. Gas appliances are basically one of the few exceptions...
Good troubleshooting as usual ... What brand spade connectors do you use ... Thx ...
Id have to look, They are a middle of the road crimp connector. I haven't had any let loose.
Just a quick question you did not put any pipe jointing compound or gas PTFE tape on thread is that normal practice in States UK have different regulations . Nice video
11:08 Look the the gray threads then notice the gray pipe dope and then hear me say "I have it doped up". Please don't skip around in my videos because unlike most channels I cut most boring spots out and you'll miss details like this one you asked about. It takes time for me to come back and rewatch it to find these things. Not trying to be a jerk but unlike a lot of channels I try to respond to each comment that I get and not just "like the comment". Thanks for your checking out the video!
@@HVACRSurvival No problem but be nice to people go,s a long way Mr Perfect
Hold the enter and escape together to translate alarm codes to words
I wish I had the handheld controller. The shop has a few of them but not enough for everyone.
they are very lucky that the heating unit did not cause a fire that burned the building.
So you're the guy that I come behind and find striped bolts and using channel pliers...đ€š
You're a hilarious, why don't you do a little research on what I use before you run your mouth, You're not very observant. Take a little closer look at the Jaws. amzn.to/3Br10FT
@@HVACRSurvival Just pointing out you bring a plumbers tool to a HVAC job.
đđ
Rick get the marshmallows ready lol
đ€đ€Łđ€Ł
đ
Usually the IFB would lock it out on smaller package units if the roll out switch was tripped, not sure on that model Carrier as it has different controls.
I said it pretty quickly in the video but the maintenance department had been turning the power off and resetting the controller to get the heat to run for a little bit. Theoretically the electronics did its job but it's not a true lockout once the power is killed.
@@HVACRSurvival that's not a maintenance department I'd like. I'm in IT and so I'm well aware of the turn it off and back on fix, and will tell people to do it often, and try it with equipment in many circumstances, but that doesn't mean I'll do it endlessly, if the issue keeps coming back deeper analysis and fixing is needed, and with equipment like HVAC where it could damage the equipment or create a safety issue that threshold is not very high, after at most one or two resets they should have shut it down and left it off and called in an expert.
@glennmcgurrin8 I fully agree, I can't always go into those kind of details on video.
Nice job getting that welded. I used to work for company that had a great welder. Saved me more than once. You could have just left unit down with new burner manifold on order as many others would have done.
From what I'm hearing we may not have been able to get it anytime soon. That's always in the back of my mind
everything is great but as soon as you alter any manufacturer design & g forbid sometgoes south the liability is not on the last company that touched it from insurance standpoint thats why technically youâre supposed to replace it with original or updated part, & commercial space should have temporary space heaters of some sort until equipment gets resorted or replaced etc.. that is actually standard as per any commercial industrial insurance liability standards
@@ping_me1vp We do industrial high pressure piping and a lot more dangerous jobs than this low pressure gas line, were insured for all that kind of thing. Your liable soon as you touch any equipment. I know what your saying but were not some small mom and pop residential company that carries a couple million in coverage.
If you press Enter and Escape at the same time, it will tell you what the code means
The role out switch should of shut it off right???
It did, but they kept resetting the power, that reset the lockout
Self-resetting rollout switches unfortunately are what the installers are told nowadays to put in these HVAC systems.
That was factory, it was programmed to shut down but they kept resetting the power to make it run again and again.
Having a metal shop at your disposal sure speeds up everything. Also this design just seems designed to burn. I don't get it.
well thats your problem right there
đ
was this all done in the same day?
Yep. Our shop is close by.
Hey you should have brought some sausages or marshmallows up on the roof with ya , could have cooked your lunch while troubleshooting eh .
I didn't think of that! I could a even made some French Toast ...lol
@@HVACRSurvival đ
holy shit
What? Just a few globs of JB Weld and that'd fix right up, n'est ce pas?
Electric tape is cheaper! LOL
I prefer flex sealđ
i mean, if it aint broke, dont fix her. if its still running it can last a bit more
You did not replace rollout with manual resetâŠ
I never said I did, I said they should have used that style it rest to begin with.
You damaged the fan bearings belt is too tight.
Nothing like flame shooting out at you keep saying your toes makes life interesting if I had a dollar for every time something through flames at me I'd have $2 LOL
đ€Łđđ
Had one a number of years ago that blew the burner compartment cover panel 30 feet across the roof. đź.
đ€đ€đ€đ€đ€đ€đ€đ€đ€đ€
Youâre hard to watch.
For starters, you needed to look at the ignition control board for a fault.
Secondly, the ignition control board will lock out the heat after 3 trips.
When youâre using the scrolling marquee, you can press enter and cancel at the same time to see the alarm.
This is easy stuff.
Okđł
đflamethrower
New burners and manifold, welding that manifold you just changed the factory specs, you own that equipment for life, I think the gas codes in the USA are non existent, where I live in Ontario Canada, the TSSA would take your gas license.
Some places make more of a deal of the stupid things that don't matter than others. I would love to know how the factory welds in your gas lines in a commercial buildings....lol they don't, we have certified welders and you must not know much about Tig welding, that is not going to leak.
Wire nuts, weeping sadly as you do it right. So sad.
I could have just taped them lol. I have some wago but I don't like to use them for simple things.