How to Think About the King's Indian Defense | Climbing the Rating Ladder vs. 2030
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2023
- In this continuation of the "Climbing the Rating Ladder" series I take on players of various ratings levels while pointing out typical mistakes and spots for improvement along the way (possibly my own!? :)). Here I commentate a 10+0 game against a player rated 2030 on Chess.com. The King's Indian Defense (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 followed by 3...Bg7) is known for producing unbalanced and sometimes spectacular struggles where Black needs to be comfortable creating counterplay with a space disadvantage. This game features a critical "queenside attack vs. kingside attack" in the Classical Variation, the Bayonet Attack (9.b4), and I also break down my understanding and recommendations in this high-stakes opening.
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John trying a new gambit of blending in with his wall
Missed opportunity to play Chameleon variation 😋
Just a quick thanks to you. Always a good day when one of your climbing the ratings ladder pops up. You bring much joy into the world!
This discussion of the KID was extremely nostalgic for me. I have been playing the King's Indian as Black, at least some of the time, since the early 1980's (if not earlier), and also the White side for a very long time (sometimes with the Bayonet Attack of this game, but especially liking the Samisch variation). Like many players, I have been heavily influenced by first Fischer and then Kasparov in thinking that the KID is a really cool and exciting "defence" for Black - a potentially very sharp counter-attacking weapon and excellent way to play for a win with the Black pieces. I have indeed won some really great games on the black side of the KID, but also lost horribly. The KID is that kind of opening : "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword." Of course, there is an immense amount of extremely complicated opening theory underlying this opening. But although I have been promising myself to finally buckle down and master KID opening theory, I never actually found the time to do this (since at least the early 1980s!). So what I do is what a lot of players end up doing: I "bluff" my way through the opening in the KID and many other openings. If my opponents are weaker or about my level (NM in Canada for at least 3 decades), then I can often get away with bluffing. But if my opponents are stronger (especially, IM or GM), then they usually can call my bluff, and I get destroyed! Such is the life of a practical chess player.
So helpful! King's Indian players are so annoying for us d4-o-philes. It's great to get some insight into the different ideas and approaches!
Very insightful as always. Just want to say John, since I first started learning the game about 10 or so years ago, your channel and Jerry's were and still continue to be my main resource. I've recently broke a rating of 2000 and I never once thought I'd ever get up there, but you make it all so paletteable and enjoyable to learn. So thank you, my man! I've been able to introduce many friends and family into chess over the years too. I always tell them to start here!
Great lessons! My rating filter never has a ceiling, just a floor ("pick me, pick me!")🤞but i also stopped playing quick games for the foreseeable future.
@12:42 _"I think the Grünfeld is more sound, if you will, than the King's Indian."_
Funnily enough I remember that in the 80's virtually nobody on GM level played the Grünfeld because it was considered too dubious for Black. While the King's Indian wasn't that common but some guys (Kasparov being one of them) still played it. So it was a big surprise and a lot of eyebrows were raised when Kasparov brought the Grünfeld as his standard defence for Black during the World Championship 1986.
But anyway, thanks for the video. That was really helpful. Being a KID player myself I had quite some opening disasters like the one your opponent experienced. Mostly when I made the same mistake as him, making defensive moves on the queenside instead of focussing on my own kingside attack.
The KID is one of the openings I'd be way to scared of playing from the black side. It seems so easy to miss something or to go for the wrong continuation in the middlegame when you're out of theory. Like John's opponent is a 2000 and kinda got stomped after the opening which is wild. I'm past the 1600 rapid level but definitely don't feel ready yet to try it out myself. Maybe one day! Like the vid guys! ❤
One of the best educational chess CZcamsrs!
I first learned the London opening when I was starting chess, after watching Johns ICC videos, before it became trendy. Then I tried learning the kings Indian opening after watching even more videos, I walked in to all of the problems John talked about. Thank you for your videos! I like seeing all the side lines played out, it is so helpful
One thing that always gives me a chuckle about the KID, is the number of amateur players like myself, that simply refuse to play the Sicilian because there is "too much theory". Yet their go to defence against 1.d4 is the KID or even the Nimzo, which both arguably have just as much theory, and are every bit as sharp.
Haven't watched this yet, but BOY AM I HYPED!!! John spittin that KNOWLEDGE
Thanks John, a very instructive game. Like many players I struggle with the closed King’s Indian
Tried the KID for about a month and the feeling of being in the deep waters of too many variations was distinct. As a lower rated player I found the positions quite unpleasant on the whole. I have picked up a few general attacking ideas against the KID and some strategies for dealing with the fianchettoed kingside bishop which has helped my results from the white side. So not a total loss. Thanks for the video!
Hello IM Fins! I like the subtle humor at 0:39. Your opponent probably got even more confused. I like your explanation of White's pawns at 11:38. You said that you'd have to do some calculating if you were White there, but for me in a classical game I'd be frightened by Black's pawn storm. I think frightened is somewhat of an overreaction, objectively. In bughouse or crazyhouse, White would be in deep trouble at 11:18 with 19...f3 or 19...pATh3 coming. Thank you for your crazyhouse compliment last night! If you ever need any lessons in crazyhouse, either my crazyhouse friends or I would be delighted to teach a great chess player like yourself. Hope you're having a fantastic day, whichever day it is that you stumble upon this comment!
Cheers,
kentxcen/bugfan
I'm impressed that far into the opening you said that b4 was the move you were most familiar with and showed why its so effective. I feel like without studying I'll never be able to come up with ideas like that and continue to play mediocre chess. I dont mind just playing for fun but it must be nice to easily have ideas/motifs when going into certain positions.
Thanks for posting. This has been my favourite chess channel for several months now
Glad you're enjoying the channel - thanks so much for your kind words!
Exactly what I needed, muchas gracias.
Glad it helped!
So much info in one video, John you are too good to us!
Very instructive. Thanks john.
Thank you for the vid!
I miss this series...hope you'll be posting regularly again for these climbing the rating ladders.
Much appreciated. My voice is gradually regaining strength, so hopefully I'll be able to post more often.
Good to hear!
I did not know you were recovering from an ailment...here's to your full recovery and getting back to normalcy.@@JohnBartholomewChess
Great insights thx! 👍🏽👏🙏
Great content as always John, thanks. I generally play Saemisch against KID ( like you do ) but Bayonette Attack is always fun to watch.
I'm recording for CZcams...no pressure. Black seemed to handle some of the foggy ideas early. Complicated position! Tension, tension, tension...playing way up in rating...this was so tough for black. Tons of respect to DrRonQHamburger! But in the end, John's solid play was too much. John misses very little, and in positions like the ones we saw, missing carries a heavy penalty. Wow.
Thank you, Professor.
I appreciate you, sir. Many thanks for all the great content
I appreciate that 🙏
Intelligent vid, John! At my rating level (1600 lichess) the king's indian is very common to face, so this is much appreciated
Happy to hear that!
Great Game John!
Thank you, Ruboekstiltskin! See you on Twitch.
I just started playing around with the KID and found this so informative. Maybe I’ll switch to the Grunfeld… thanks as always for the content, John!
So informative you're not going to play it?
the grunfeld is similar, probably even harder. there is SO MUCH theory to learn for the grunfeld
Q:How to play the KID?
John: Don’t.
😂
Did you see the Kramnik interview? I one million percent agree with basically all he said. The cheat detection is very weak and punishment not severe enough.
Thanks for the post and the in depth review of the ideas in certain lines. Building up longer term plans/ideas efficiently has been tough while climbing out of the 1300ish blitz range. Your video explanations keep my engagement higher than when I try to read theory.
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Hi John, this is guys!
Lol, thought you were going to say, "John wins." Which, of course, is not really a spoiler!
I just discovered your channel today, and as a player who uses KIA/KID AS the default choice, that was a horror movie😂, thx for the content i appreciate it ❤
Hi John, when is the merch dropping?
The night mode switch made wonders for my sleep.
Did you get a standing desk?
Appreciate you asking 😀 I've been working diligently on my Scandi course, which I suspect will be out in 2-3 months. Merch will likely take longer, but I have some plans in motion on that front!
Damn, John is looking amazing. Been hitting the gym I assume
Thanks man 👍
Great game against a defense that tends to give me trouble. Is there a resource you'd recommend - possibly one you've created - highlighting key differences between the main fianchetto defenses (KID/Pirc/Modern/Benoni)?
Thanks! I don't have a video I can point you to specifically, but watching Danya's videos may be broadly helpful, as he plays a lot of KID and the occasional Pirc. Those two are characterized by White's pawn being on either c2 or c4, which does makes a good difference in the pace of play oftentimes. Benoni/Benko are different, unique animals, I'd say, although Benoni and KID can transpose and contain some similar themes.
@@JohnBartholomewChess Thanks, John! I'm primarily a Pirc/Old Benoni player, who occasionally finds myself in KID & Grünfeld positions via transposition, almost always to my detriment.
Black went wrong with choosing classic KID plan against Bayonette. That doesn't fly and the reason is that in the early b4 line you hit on the Q-side waaaay too fast. With bayonette white basically starts their Q-side agenta withouth moving the knight from f3 and completing classical f3-e4-d5 chain. I don't want to school you John, you're way above my rating hahah, I'm merely ~2100 but I know sth about KID. This misplay on black's side allows white to do some strategical tricks instead of basic Nd2-Nc4. For example Ng5 with Ne6 ideas are veeeeery strong for white because black's best piece is bish on c8. Trading it of for a knight is an almost insta-win for white. Regaining the e6 pawn from black's point of view is also really troublesome due to Nd5-Nc7 fork trick. And even if it falls (check with the enginge that it's rather unpossible if you want to hah) you have a beautiful white-square complex to work with and black's pieces are dirt. A pretty cool one is also Bg4 trading-idea which is playable if black plays f4 without white's pawn on f3, that basically kills black's attack completely and leaves them with the most awful bish in the world on g7. Btw after Nd2 c5! was a nice try for black, taking an passant is possible but blacks stands okay-ish there, if you don't take then knight on d2 is just weird, it can't go to desired c4 square and it doesn't support any pawn brakes or attack any weaknesses. Last but not least, I think that another try to stay in the game for black's point of view was throwing a5 in at some point, your rook on a1 isn't protected so you can't play the most thematic a3 supporting flexibility of the chain and you have to engage in either bxa or Ba3, both being a compromise.
Tho the main reason of black's downfall was still choosing wrong plan at the beggining. Probably they should have played just a5/Nh5 line against the bayonette, the first one is my favourite from black's perspective I have no problems equalising there.
Hamburger, the first thing that comes to mind is Steve Martin's scene in The Pink Panther 😂😂😂
I like playing the KID at 1100 rapid and 900 blitz. I’m winning 48-60% of games depending on the variation.
how good is it for 1000 elo
@@geographynonsensical5003 I like it better than D4-D5 openings, but it all depends on your playing style.
@@AcePitcher45 but daniel naroditsky said its bad below 1600 in a video cuz its hard to play
@@geographynonsensical5003 He has a point. All I’m saying is most 1000 elo players won’t memorize 20-25 moves of theory. know a few book moves then try not to blunder pieces in the middle and endgames.
@@AcePitcher45 ok thank you 👌
It's a shame your opponent didn't play 11...Nf6. The position could have gotten wild. It's pretty much automatic for KID players and I can only assume he was nervous or wanted to throw a curveball. I have kind of an introductory book on 1.d4 and they recommend the Bayonet Attack. It's constantly amazing to me how many players on the black side even at lower levels know all the theory through to stuff like Nf6, Ng6, Rf7, and Bf8... Often, it feels like I'm playing a GM on these sites. It's quite discouraging.
Ever since these shots came out I just have too much brain fog to play chess, it's really unfortunate as this was one of my favorite passtimes. Used to play at 1800-2100 raiting strength consistently now I have a hard time breaking 1700.
Shots?
What about the Nimzo Indian for a 1500 level player?
Nimzo is a great opening! Only thing is it's pretty free-flowing, and you probably won't get the actual Nimzo too often, e.g. if White isn't playing a London System or other d4 side lines, you have to be ready for 3.Nf3 and 3.g3 as well, which are serious main lines.
Why is playing on different sides of the board bad? Stockfish plays on all sides of the board and tries to restrict the opponent to quickly pressure on all sides
Playing on both sides of the board can be a good strategy, yes. Was this in reference to something I said in the video? Feel free to timestamp if you'd like me to clarify.
Around 5:35 to 5:40. Altough I thought it was a bad move, I just thought playing on two different sides is a good idea. Like for example if black were to take space in the center or/and queenside and then try to start the kingside attack? Just a though, you know@@JohnBartholomewChess
@@Blinkers2007GameDev The way to think about the position is that Black is too far behind on the queenside/center to mount a reasonable counterattack on those parts of the board. White has too much space and enjoys superior coordination. Although it can make sense to play on both sides of the board *sometimes*, you can really only do so from a position of equality or strength on those parts of the board.
Black's best bet is to concentrate on the kingside, where Black has more space and potential for an attack against White's king. This is what makes the King's Indian risky for Black, though! There are some lines of the KID where Black does try to "hedge" a bit more with play in the center/queenside, but this is not one of them.
Hamburger Hill on the chess board
RIP Jimmy Buffett
4:13 f4 has to be inaccurate for black because white can play bg4 exchange the light-squared bishop (whites bad bishop for blacks good bishop) and black will have almost no attack without that bishop..and thats why black brings the knight back to f6 before pushing f4.
Not necessarily a good idea to spend two tempi to trade bishops there.
Yes, generally as Black in these positions it's a good idea to hold back on f4 until White plays f3, partly for this reason. Once f3 is played, g3 also becomes a little weak and you can exploit that by shoving your knights and pawns forward. The dream is to provoke h3 so you can play the thematic sacrifice Bxh3 and rip open White's kingside while their pieces are all stranded on the other side of the board.
Love any time you start reading a ridiculous Chesscom name and only realize how silly it is as you’re saying it out loud.
29:10 looks really weird? Naah, looks completely normal to me as a KID enjoyer as black :). Btw wtf why this was recommended to me only after 3 months :O
Haha. The algo thinks need more King's Indian!
Hey IM John could you make some funny thumbnails for the next ones please
I'm doing a rebrand of my channel/thumbnails, so they'll have a different look in the near future. Not sure how funny they'll be per se, but we'll see :)
Hi John,
I don’t know about liking you to post everything, it seems a bit pretentious.
I am positive, however, about liking everything you post.
Thank you.
2030 is stronger than this come on
Printer issues automatically deduct 200 rating