Childfree: Four women on why they don’t want kids | CloseUp
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- čas přidán 30. 10. 2021
- When PhD student Esther Yeo, 24, and her boyfriend got married last year, they went shopping for wedding rings - and a polyclinic. She wanted to have her uterus removed but was told it could not be done. In the end, her husband had a vasectomy instead. Read more: str.sg/3pWU
According to the latest population census, more married women - from those in their 20s to 50-somethings and older - are not having children. Some can't, and others decide not to.
Through the stories of Esther, Dawn, Joan and Shirlene, CloseUp finds out why they are childless by choice and how they react to the prevalent view that it is natural for women to want to be mothers.
CloseUp is an investigative video series by The Straits Times that gives a deeper look at issues that hit close to home.
#stcloseup #Singapore #childfree
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Why is it so shocking that some women simply don't want kids? Children are an option, not an obligation.
Thank you. People just hate to see women be free and have lives outside the norm.
Exactly ☠️
Exact how I feel ! Why are people so judgmental on the way someone else chooses to live their life. It’s not hurting anyone. Let people be who they are and live how they want to live . 41 and never had the urge to have children. I love my life the way it is and I feel accomplished and will continue to stay true to myself.
I think its a resentment they have because they now have to or they made some type of weird sacrifice and adopted.
I've even seen some news casters argue like its a public duty to get married and have kids. It is not it's a choice and those people had a choice to opt out of it too.
It doesn't matter how cool or down to earth they seem just don't fall for it unless you just really like or trust this person and you know it's going to work out.
If there hassling you to give them kids then they didn't actually get with you because they loved you. It's a good way to test them too because some people lie and make it seem like it is no big deal, and before you know it you might be going with them to the baby daddies house to pick up the kids.
I had a roommate like this and eventually I just had to bail she had her crazy bf over just about every night arguing and then one night she lied and put her alcohol she had in my closet. It just never works when they have kids. It's like they become a liability in just about any situation.
Also, why are people also not bringing up how scarey pregnancy can be as well. We as women can still love children and be nuturing.
NOT having children was the best decision I ever made.
Me too 🍹
Me as well! 💅🏾🍷😴
@@Childfree334 me too im 42 and i have no regret not having kids.
Really why because i m 39 childless not by choice and i m scared .i just want to understand.
@@yosrakthiri315 Because parenthood just isn't worth it
Funny how they wouldn't let her get her uterus removed but they let her husband choose what he wanted to do with his body and get a vasectomy.
Good point.
True. At the other hand a vasectomy is reversible
@@Thristed that's not really the point. Doctor could state risks in the beginning like they do for every surgery.
Also vasectomies aren't always reversible. I've talked to men who said they couldn't get theirs reversed.
They wouldn't even let her get an IED (birth control device). That's so fucking sad.
@@amberrj. I mean what doctor does that?
You ķnow what is worse...not wanting kids after you've had them.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -./.
@@buzzlightyearlight1247 You probably deny Anthropogenic global Warming (AGW).
@@theultimatereductionist7592 I don’t deny it we should be cheering it. Screw cold weather
Fostercare....yup.
So happy to hear these ladies talking about their choice to live the childfree life. Making the choice to not be a mom doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. Parenthood isn't for everyone.
😁 Heyyy Hannah . . . {people should 'totally' follow her fabulous channel}
This is a great interview as is your own video shared about it.
It absolutely means you're broken. Fundementally.
@@hughjecoque3515 OK, and then what? So if one is fundamentally broken… isn’t that a good and responsible reason not to be a parent?
@@hughjecoque3515 the only thing fundamentally broken here is civilization
Right.
When they asked the fourth woman why she didn’t want children and a kid was in the background making noise, and she simply said “that”. Lmao. That was perfect.
Agreed!
Kids = loud noises and dirty diapers. Grossss
If you do not want kids then don't have them BUT DO NOT EXPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN TO TAKE CARE OF YOU IN YOUR OLD AGE! Russia's President Putin REJECTED THE U.N's Global Retirement System because the U.N knew it made a mistake of promoting population control and now there are less young people to support more old people. Russia's pro-natalistic policies has made Russia's population YOUNGER AND LARGER and Putin said our young people's priority is Russia and not the whole world. Putin said, the world made a mistake so it should solve it's own mistake.
Personal opinion here: I feel that if one is not ready to b mum or don’t want to b one then don’t b or else the child will suffer.
To each their own. If you want kids, good. If you don’t want kids, also good. Do what you want. Just live with no regrets. SImple.
Exactly, a lot of people don't think it over and the children are the one to get thr worst deal out of it.
A lot of bad parents I know, actually wanted kids.
@@meiimacca4054 They love to have a baby but dont want to raise a person
that's for sure.
I love how whenever I tell people I want a pet, they tell me "you don't need one, they are expensive and require a lot of work" but when I tell people I don't want kids they tell me "WHY NOT!!!?? YOU WERE PUT ON THIS EARTH TO HAVE KIDS!! YOU ARE A WOMAN AND YOU WOULD MAKE A GREAT MOM!! YOU'RE JUST GOING THROUGH A PHASE RIGHT NOW!!"
Those people who still wants to preserve conservative / traditional family values are fundamentally broken. Women have choice. Men needs permission from women and ask them whether she wanted to have a child. If she refuses, then men have to keep their mouth shut.
Misery loves company
they care for you. have an open mind. don't listen to these angry childless women
@@shigor the moms are the angry ones. Not us. They're always complaining about their husband and kids.
@@hanalala3164 not sure about that. All single ladies over 40 are pretty angry.
I am a man and childfree. While most of my army buddies and friends have met their love ones and have a child or two I am still trying my luck to get a partner. The best part is after my breakup I learn to love myself more and have hobbies. I am so comfortable with my single life now that having a child will disrupt that and there will be a risk I am indifferent to my child thus creating a harmful cycle of hate, between parents and children.
If I manage to find a childfree partner it is the best of both worlds. If I am dating, will tell the girl I am comfortable with that I am Childfree on the first date. If she is on the fence or wants children then she has to look elsewhere. I am happy either being single or attached.
I will never sacrifice my beliefs for someone else at this stage.
As a woman, I am in a similar situation where I am struggling to find a partner that doesn't want children. In dating, I'm finding that the majority of the men I talk to want children someday. It's disheartening, especially if it's someone you really like and hope to have a future with. At the end of the day, you have to love yourself first. Child free women are out here, don't give up hope.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -/2/-
Same, I LOVE my peace and I just don’t want kids.
yeah every guy wants kids once we get serious. even tho i'd be the one having to do all the work birthing and feeding it. even when they claim they'll be the stay at home dad so i can be the breadwinner i don't believe it. women raise the kids.
@@isabelamogosanu7777Not all always true men raise kids too
Normalise Asking "why do you want to have children"?
High school chemistry lab.
@@flowersmakemehappy834 yeah "Normalise" the acid with base
@@ameygade1977 overweight orangish red grease from beef taco and almost looks like blood on the napkin, then you do a lecture about blood in a certain station while rotating to others about skeletons and bones
Growing up, I'd see parents with babies & toddlers out shopping and I always looked at them with pity for having lost their freedom. As an adult, nothing has changed for me. Kids are noisy, demanding, and require lots of mental & emotional input from their caregivers. As an introvert who can't stand human noise, I've never had kids and don't regret it. And nobody can say I'm selfish for not having kids because if you're not cut out for parenthood, it would be selfish to bring kids into the world.
It's selfish to have kids anyway everyone knows it
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay ---/
@@twilight6779 but people don't want to admit it
Exactly
@@feliyulita1755 High school chemistry lab where there's a bit of oil and grease on the tables
andover trip in 2 days weather looks in the clear the plan will be brought out
thinking about compounds lately
I'm a thirty-five year-old, single, childfree woman. I had a hysterectomy a couple of years ago and it was a godsend. Besides the physical illness, PTSD, and my nomadic lifestyle traveling the world, I just never really felt the desire to be a mom. No one has the right to force THE MOST life-changing decision to ever exist on us or our bodies. It's wonderful to hear the perspectives of childfree women from the other side of the globe. Congratulations, ladies, you're doing what's right for YOU. Love from the USA. 💜
high school chemistry lab
Wisest decision you ever made in your life.
@@txlyons2937 Thank you so much! You're right. Each day I'm more and more grateful that I get to focus on healing and supporting myself, and enjoying my life to the fullest!
@@drnol461 Remember, no one knows you better than you know yourself. God bless.
If you do not want kids then don't have them BUT DO NOT EXPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN TO TAKE CARE OF YOU IN YOUR OLD AGE! Russia's President Putin REJECTED THE U.N's Global Retirement System because the U.N knew it made a mistake of promoting population control and now there are less young people to support more old people. Russia's pro-natalistic policies has made Russia's population YOUNGER AND LARGER and Putin said our young people's priority is Russia and not the whole world. Putin said, the world made a mistake so it should solve it's own mistake.
People need to quit trying to guilt trip women into having children they really don't want. Proud of these women for not letting others make their decisions for them. What is really upsetting is that they try to force women to have children by refusing sterilization for those that want it.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
@@buzzlightyearlight1247Bounce houses are fun regardless of age. What do you do drink and seeth in self loathing misery?!
This is great. More women should be speaking out for what they want. Having kids is a personal choice. My mother was probably expected to have children and she was miserable being a mother. She traumatized my father, brother, and myself instead of choosing her own life to live that would have made her happier. I'm not keen to have children either.
Others have good experiences so their choice would be different.....
@@jeromestavrosyeo no shit thats why its important to choose for your own sanity. And if your partner/friends/family cant agree with that you better get out of there and have a healthy life on your own without toxic people shoving their "this is how its done onle right" mindsett on someone else
@@Dinaciety I wouldn't call that toxic, that's too harsh of a word. Maybe they are just telling you what they think that's all, no need to explode. ..Now if they constantly pressure you, THEN that would be a different story. I hope that's not the case.
I am a person who is pretty open minded anyway, and love to hear what others have to say, especially my loved ones. It has it's benefits. I think it would also benefit you to be open-minded as well but yes ultimately, it's your life, your choices.
@@SVAsianPhilippinesGo6858 Those people who still wants to preserve conservative / traditional family values are fundamentally broken. Women have choice. Men needs permission from women and ask them whether she wanted to have a child. If she refuses, then men have to keep their mouth shut.
@@Prometheus574 Yeah people just get on the hate train even though they know god damn well that what I've said is true! And yes, you don't gotta be around people you don't like period, but that isn't my point. But it's sad people didn't get what I said, either partly or not. I was just saying to have an open mind. Especially if you're still young enough to have that choice! That is all I was saying and yet never got any upvotes or approval for it 😞😞
I'm 50/50 on kids, and my soon partner is completely against them. I would much rather not have kids and "regret" it (and I could just adopt or be a foster parent) than have kids and regret having them. I'm not going to gamble with a child's life like that.
I think like you. Im also 50/50 about it.its really not a must to have kids damn
If you on accident get pregnant dont keep the child, thats not fair for your partner. Since you fully know they are against wanting children. Either you dont want them or you want them. Dont be fence sitter. You have to decide bevor going into a commited partnership. If you change your mind, since you know for yoursefl you are 50/50 on this topic for yourself, its not fair wasting your own time and your partners time in this relationship.
@@Dinaciety fit takes two
I adore your fluidity
If your partner is completely against children aka childfree. It means they does not even want to foster or adopt in the future. I think you should think it through if you really doesnt want kid and talk to your partner about it. Your partner will either be miserable if you end up keeping the kid if you got pregnant or you will be miserable if you don't keep the kid.
I’m a Childfree Nigerian guy. Overpopulation is one of the reasons Africa is poor. Although it’s a controversial topic here. Nice video 👍
I'm from an overpopulated poor country as well. But emigrated to the US 22 years ago. In 22 years the population doubled. Now, there are Less jobs, less natural spaces (overbuilt), more poverty, more crimes. Nothing come out of it. Although my life is better, I still choose to remain childfree.
I agree with you. As an African person i do agree that that can be a reason of the poverty. What sucks is that people here rush to have children without a plan on how they will raise and provide for them. A ton of misplaced priorities.
When Prince William said this everyone said he was racist
Im also kenyan and I dont want kids such a taboo in africa
Realistically, it's because of unequal distribution of resources. But the world's richest 1% refuses to stop hoarding wealth so the natural choice to come out of it is to go childfree. Anyway a society that only values year on year economic growth has always been unrealistic. We're reaching the end of the line. Better not bring innocent ones into the world until we figure shit out.
My son is adopted. I'm now raising my 3 nephews. Kids suck. I love my son and my nephews but I didn't want children. It's hard, it's expensive, I have no privacy, I have no freedom. Raising kids is no fun. Having a child is just not worth the hassle. Children are little kill joys.
Thank you for your honesty lady. much appreciated. And I really hope it gets easier for you as they get older
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -/---
I knew that as a kid😁. Stay strong and find time for yourself.
Happy to see that more women dare to live their own life now
@@love__and__hope__ having a child is a choice. its one's responsibility to bring the child up, not those critics. so people should learn to be respectful of someone with an unconventional mindset. not everyone find joy, meaning and happiness in children. if you need children to give you that, then you start reflecting on your life first. that is what i called selfish.
Be prepared to die alone and old with no family: your friends will die of old age and you will be dried and over. Career does not last forever. It will end. What is there for you, with no family and support? You are sick, you are alone, at the age of 65-70 you think you can be independent? You are just a lonely old lady. Those who have children have grown adults and grandchild that will be there for them. You are just a fool.
@@justcause9575 Ever visited a nursing home? I can tell u that having children does not gurantee you won't end up dying alone.
@@love__and__hope__ dont make society's problems my problems cos i dont make my problems society's problems?
@@justcause9575 You are the asinine shit here.
Do you realise that it's possible for a child to pass on before their parents. Do you also know that one's progeny can be unfilial since they are independent minds who have the capacity to make decisions by their own volition.
Why you so fcking daft? Plus, every cradle is a grave. Why make a life to eventually put it through death?
I feel there's a lot of selflessness and sacrifice required to raise children.
It is better to regret not being a parent than to regret being a parent. Children don't choose to be born into this world.
If people are not ready, unable to provide for their children or feel they are not qualified to raise kids properly, then don't bring a child into this world to suffer. Singapore is a stressful country to live in and cost of living here is expensive. Don't force people to have kids.
Force? No one can force another...
@@jeromestavrosyeo I believe BluuKiss is referring to pressure. It is common for older people pressure kids or adults to have kids, sometimes saying "you'll regret it", "you'll have someone to take care of you when you're old".
@@jeromestavrosyeo People force pregnancy and childbirth on women all the time. WTF are you talking about?
@@Childfree334 force? There's such a thing called abortion in United States. Unless you're talking somewhere else.
@@songsthatarecatchy Texas would like to disagree
There are childfree women and men around the world! We need to unite and advance and defend our reproductive rights!
Yes .PCI , Population Control International .
@@Jay-vr9ir can't tell if trolling or...
The amount of time, energy and money it takes to raise a child simply negates all the benefits of parenthood. Society has changed so much that most youngsters no longer have a sense of gratitude for the sacrifices that their parents have made. Better to have pets than children.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay. : .,,
It is monotonous😵💫 AF!
My mother told me that she only had me was because my father wanted another child. I told her that it's her body and her choice so she didn't have to if she didn't want to. I would never want to have those feelings towards the human that i created. I know that growing up and facing trauma and not completely healing from that then going to have children only to pass those feelings unto them is horrifying and I don't want to continue that cycle.
She knows I won't have children and she accepts that, which I appreciate. I may still be a teenager but if I'm capable of knowing what career path I'd like to pursue for the rest of my life, I'm not too young to decide if i want to give birth to a child, which are both major life decisions.
Also, if you have strong traditional feelings of a woman having children, be aware of how you discriminate against those who don't share those opinions. Different strokes for different folks.
Wow, you're mature and well read for a teenager. Kudos! 🙂
same
When someone question my choice of being childfree and telling I'll regret it eventually, well.. I'd rather regret that I didn't have kids, than to regret that I had. Just really grateful to have partner that is all in and supportive about this choice.
Same, rather regret not having kids than regret having kids. At least I don't bring in any kids here to suffer
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay --
society is quite progressive now, nobody will really condemn you for not wanting to have kids anymore. dont let anybody dictate your life choices because "what would others think?", you do you!
@My Name Is Choice yes, it's all about progress
Are you serious? Where the hell do you live? Because in the US, we're in clear and present danger of losing abortion rights, and the same conservative creepers trying to ban abortion have publicly stated that they want to outlaw birth control, too. Hell, in Louisiana, there's a bill being pushed that would legally define hormonal birth control as HOMICIDE. Yes, you read that right. They're trying to change the law to define life as starting at conception, so *anything* that interferes with an embryo *after* conception is literally defined (and punished) as HOMICIDE! That's where we are right now. IN.SANE. I'm not "progressive" by any means, either. Too many extremists on both sides. The Boomers and Gen X were freer and had more rights than younger generations are likely to have left by the end of all this lunacy.
“I don’t want to bring that sound back to my house” LMAO
A good parent never stop worrying about their children even when they are adults and have families of their own. Good for these girls, they don't need that.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -///-
Few pointers for not having kids:
-Not ready
-Sacrifice and Commitments
-Living in Sg is alr Expensive especially with the recent hike up in prices for food, transport etc
-Traumas during childhood
-Academically competitive
-NOISY!!!
Pretty much the same reason as what you stated and this planet doesn't need anymore people.
@@TheWalf999 Society needs more people but I don't care
I cannot imagine making my child wake up every morning to school and compete in PSLE etc ..what if my child is not born bright or intelligent..so he has to settle for lowly jobs and suffer working 12 hour shifts for the rest of his life .Goodness
My number one reason? Loving my sleep too much
@@elvisk6632 8 billion people where the majority of countries' govt can't be bothered to care cus there's too many of us. I say we don't need more people
I knew when I was young that I didn't want kids, even my own mother caution me not to have kids as we're only gonna bring them here to "suffer", maybe it stemmed from regrets as parents due to unforeseen lifechanging events like my dad having a permanent disability when I was 6 and my mom had to singlehandedly raise us up. There shouldn't be judgement on people who choose to be childfree for whatever reason. Thankful that I found a partner that doesn't want kids either.
Your mother was very honest. I feel the same way. I would never want to see a child suffer
A very subjective look based entirely on your mother’s difficult situation.
Yours may be totally different. But we all make our choices.
That lady did not look 52 and I’m pretty that’s because she does not have kids!
@
Yes!
You are correct.
Too much stressful kids speeds up your age.
@@KyleEvra You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
I though the same!
Proud of these gals. Hope the miserable karens don't get on them for choosing a more care free life. Misery loves company
The Karen's are very jealous because they don't get enough sleep.
Actually its fine to not have children but then don't start complaining about foreigners
@@sandrajayandran This is the DUMBEST statement I have read in quite some time. Women should breed to outnumber "foreigners." The racism and bigotry here is astounding!!!
@@sandrajayandran Not sure if you are from America, but here we were all foreigners at one time (my family did not get here until the 1890s). The only non-foreigners here are the native people that were here first.
@@sandrajayandran if you are having children to keep foreigners away, then you are having them for the wrong reasons. i really hope you don’t have kids, if you do, good luck to them.
Better to choose not to have children rather than want to have children but not willing to put in the effort to raise them. I've seen a few and I really pity the children.
This!!!! 🥰👏🏾💯🥰👏🏾💯
i think it's sad that childfree people have to defend their choices because it's outside the "norm." i never understood why people judge others so hard for choices that are not their own. some people aren't fit to be parents and they don't want that lifestyle.
forcing them to be parents would only result in unwanted children, which then you'd find people complaining and saying things like "they should have never had children," no shit sherlock. maybe you shouldn't be forcing people who don't want kids to, hmm i don't know, to have kids?
on top of that, there are plenty of people who you may think are childfree and are actually childless. do you think they are a burden to society because they cannot conceive? are you going to beg them to have children when they can't? so why is it so easy to accept this but not people who just don't want children because they can't be parents and know they'd be bad at it?
it's sad to see how invested people are in other's lives. it's really none of your business. if you get offended by this comment, it's probably cause the shoe fits and you completely proved my point.
They judge others because they're insecure in their own choices.
@@dergluckliche4973 Those people who still wants to preserve conservative / traditional family values are fundamentally broken. Women have choice. Men needs permission from women and ask them whether she wanted to have a child. If she refuses, then men have to keep their mouth shut.
They care because of greedy profit, every ad with babies is designed to produce more wage slaves
Every developing country complains about low birthrate but if you think about it, why would they care about the birthrate over other more urgent issues like climate change, inflation, lack of humans rights etc and you realize they just want more people to use as pawns against other countries during war. People ain't nothing but just a chess piece to the govt.
Thank you so much for such great content. I can relate to all the ladies. I'm 43 and married, I'm so ambivalent about having kids that about 4 years ago, I finally said no. I knew I wasn't crazy for thinking the way I did. Child rearing is not meant for everyone.
You made the right choice. Enjoy your life and don’t be stupid like my mother who chased out by her daughter in law and control my brother life. Bad karma
Look how beautiful and not stressed out they are
For me I want to adopt kids rather than have my own, coz my body is really sensitive and weak and i can't handle pain well so child birth scares me. Alot of people tell me that I'm too young to understand and that I'll change my mind in the future but I personally don't think I will , society just can't accept women not wanting kids or staying single for some reason. Like it isn't a bad thing, it's a choice .
Adoption is indeed a really good choice! I too wanted to adopt when possible, they're already here and need a loving family.
I've always found that comeback stupid, the one about people saying you'll change your mind. If you're old enough to decide to have kids, then you're also old enough to decide *not* to have kids. Some people just can't accept that people live differently to how they do.
@@scrollingdownonlytofindcom2663 I don't think it's about not accepting? Maybe it's about not understanding. But yeah totally get it.
Wish my wife felt like them.... A woman that doesn't want kids is a blessing from above!
I'm glad i'm single n have no kids...i wouldn't want to bring kids into this crazy world that gets crazier by the day...and subject them to so much pain and anxieties...of course if you are rich...its a different story...
If your rich, your child may have no ambition at all, cause they have their parents fortune to fall back on. That to me is more dangerous than anything.
@@wduprevil Not really, child of the rich can risk it all and work harder and not worry about failing.
Just bc a person is rich doesn't mean that theyre exempt from suffering the same fate as someone who's poor.
Exactly..rich does not mean no suffering. The child may have health issues that money cannot even solve and buy. Having a child born into this world is a gamble.
I'm going on 61 yrs old I never wanted children. I come from a family of 6. I'm the youngest.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
I was 12 and saw that the most impactful people I know and respected were childless and happy. I'm happy and whole sans children.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay --
I am 36 and childfree because I am not married and I refuse to be a single mother. I feel like if I were to have a child just to satisfy my needs; I would be very selfish because I would be denying my child a home with both parents. Thus, I shall remain childfree until I die.
Wisest decision you'll ever make in your life.
Good for you OP for learning from the mistakes of others.
Same!!!! This freaking part!!!!!! 🥰💯👏🏾🥰💯👏🏾🥰💯👏🏾🥰👏🏾💯
We all got here without given a choice to be here. Child free people are just exercising their choices just like people who choose to being kids in without caring if the children even want to be here. Life is really pointless. I came, I saw, and I don’t like the world. I am just trying my best to live well and just leave without bringing someone who may not even be here.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay. : . /
My sister and I don't want kids (and I don't even want to be in a relationship). We were talking about permanent birth control and my mom didn't say anything, but she looked super distraught. I know her opinion, and I have a bad feeling that when we do it, she won't treat us like "real women" anymore because it's "unnatural". Any advice?
With all due respect, it's not your mom's business, and she should respect that you don't want to have children. There are women who cannot have children even if they want to. Does that make them any less of a woman? No
A hallmark of adulthood is making your decisions for you without any influence of your parent's opinion. I told my own kids that I would be very disappointed in them if they made their decisions based on what I would think vs. what would make them happy. There comes a point in life where a parents' opinion should not matter anymore.
@@apopuffkin1717thank you very much for your words, it's reassuring to read that kind of opinion
I once had a friend who said that I'm incomplete as a woman if I don't have a child.
I hope your friend will develop a broader perspective of things in future. All the best to you Pamela, don't let such comments get you down.
I rather be incomplete then having a spoiled brat bothering over stupid shit.
I am an anti-natalist & a VHEMT supporter, I also cannot fathom ppl who criticize the childfree ppl for being ‘selfish’. If anything, procreation is selfish.
They procreate cos they desperately wanna pass on their genes, not caring whether the kid wanna be born into this unnecessary existence that includes stress, illness, old age & death. If they really love children, how about adopt children in need instead of contributing to overpopulation?
With the creation more humans, the planets & animals suffer even more. Animal suffering comes from human’s encroachment in their habitats, human’s pollution of the marine environment, human’s testing of animals in labs, human’s rearing of animals in battery farms. More humans= more animals needed to be slaughtered to feed humans.
So who are the selfish ones? The childfree would rather live our own lives & be done with it than to drag another being into this world & burden them with caregiving duties when we get old.
Your friends are out of their mind. Wait till they are old they will know. Children after the parents money and refused to care for their parents when old. This is very common. Worse of all. The daughter in law grabbed the son like she was the one who gave birth to him
But do people say that to a man tho?
I don't like kids enough to have them. Absolutely not.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay.
It's sad how women are expected to be the primary housekeepers and caregivers but still the child get the father's last name most of the time 🙄
Think about this. Women carry the babies, women birth the babies, women do 90% of the childbearing while MEN get 50% of the credit and equal rights.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay.
@@Childfree334 fathers actually get very little credit, just look at the comments. Fathers get no recognition at all.
In my country, we get both parents' name.
Patriarchy, that's why
I could see why women don't want kids. Men tend to make a child the women's responsibility but now women are pulling their weight in the work world and at home. That leaves little to no room for self and basically all the responsibility is on her back. Its a lot of sacrifice. I have two kids and I love them, they add a ton of love and value to my life. Yet the amount of sacrifice and how much they've slowed down my life is crazy. Plus children aren't always great. You see the good, the bad, and the ugly. I feel like every parent has at least one moment where they look at their kids and go why did I sign up for this lol Then you hold them or they so something crazy awesome or cool and it goes away. Either way if you dont want kids, you shouldn't be forced to have them or looked down on.
Nah.
It's because mostly we childfree people love to sleep without spoiled brats crying their wittle eyes out for something.
So true
@@paulinemichaelapineda2429 You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
It's a bit telling that the women who choose to remain childfree feel like they have to justify themselves and defend their choice, whereas you'd think the same would apply to those who chose to reproduce which is likely not the case. Times are changing, but for a long time the main value in women in society was equated to their fertility and motherhood. Men were not judged in such a narrow scope in contrast, i.e their value and sense of purpose was not tied to becoming parents in most cases.
For reference I'm a guy that subscribes to a childfree philosophy and I encourage people to make their own choice, regardless of what mainstream society thinks or does. Also, I am aware that I could only be compatible with such a woman, although it is tricky to find such a person with the same mindset as most women do go on to having children at some point in their lives.
Their uterus and hormones (desires) are too strong to ignore or negate with birth control.
@@SVAsianPhilippinesGo6858 the amount of women who are still childfree even when they are 50-60 years old says otherwise so you can take that bullshit and toss it in the trash
@@SVAsianPhilippinesGo6858 Not true, you can use mind over matter. I went through "baby rabies" in my 30's, but because I knew what it was and that it was nothing more than my body trying to trick me into a bad decision, I overcame it. Having a 3rd child would have ruined the life of the two children we already had at that time, would have ruined all of our lives financially for a long time. We don't have to give in to the body's demands, that is why we also have a brain to think these things through and not make dumb choices.
@@apopuffkin1717 Look, I don't know who you are and why you want to argue with me to prove me wrong but:
1-Your account/experience is just going to ring true for you. Not everyone will have the SAME experience!
2. "Baby Rabies" usually happen to women between the ages of 12 through probably the mid to late 30's, heck even early 40s. When they are at their most fertile (usually)! Why do you think ACCIDENTS happen all the time?!.. Never liked the term though, it sounded degrading, but yeah, whatever.
3. You already had TWO kids by that time. I am in my late 30's, with a criminal, drug addicted husband (who I fell for in my early 30's. We had an off and on relationship due to so many things too personal here to say). But yeah, I don't have any children like you, so I still would like to have at least one.
4. I think you should feel lucky that your husband seems more decent than mine and just count the two blessings you do have.
5. And for what it's worth, maybe just maybe, you CAN help me in this one and only life of mine that for whatever reason you chose to write that reply. So thanks.
@@apopuffkin1717YES , well-said🎉. We have evolved passed the cavemen stage and are humans, not apes.
Men ruin your careers after the children come because they can force you to stay at home because they would never stay at home and be a stay at home dad, they expect you to do it. I like that Ester is a PHD student, it's a better accomplishment that popping out.
It gets worse. Abusive men use it as a way to trap you. A stay at home mom with no career, no money, and sometimes not even a car. That way they don't have a way to escape when he turns violent. They can't be homeless, think of the kids. She can't abandon the kids with him. Even if she manages to leave she will take the kids with her so he doesn't have to deal with them. Its a win win for him.
@@HikaruYamamoto This is also something that is super common with couples who have children. Whether it’s the abusive husband or wife, girlfriend or boyfriend, It’s like a trap. Once you have kids, you’re officially tied to her/him and trapped with them and can’t escape. I know you can’t be paranoid, but crazy shit like this does happen and you never know if you’ll fall victim to it. So this is another reason I have chosen not to have kids. People seem to forget once you have children with a person, you are tied with them no matter how hard you try to escape because you’re both the children’s parents. And sadly, marriage doesn’t guarantee ANYTHING!
@@HikaruYamamoto So I’d rather prevent it from happening while I can and before something like that eventually happens and it’s too late. Being child free is actually the safest thing in my opinion. You just can’t trust people. My trust in people is also very low.
@@jord3000 Exactly, I'm so glad to have been able to drop all of my exes and not have to see them ever again. They were so toxic and I was young and dumb.
It is people's own decision to remain single or not have any child.
I wouldn't give any reasons to people why I don't want children. I'd just say "no comment" and that should shut them up if they don't have anything to work with.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
i don’t understand why some women even want kids
Because their family, husband and society guilt them into having kids
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -./.-
Because it's the right thing t do, not the wrong thing
Happy.. Medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal 🔁🔁🔁🔁🔁🔁🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Why society cannot accept this. This is not their life. We live our own life and not control by others
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay.,,,.
finally!! just the concept of having and raising kids makes me uncomfortable, it requires life-long commitment and plus the child doesn't have a choice in wanting to be here on earth or not you're bringing a human into this world and it's scary to think that you can't provide well for them... also plus they highkey annoy me lol
Well they won't be children forever, that is also what you gotta keep in mind. People who have kids usually want to pass on their legacy and also most likely want grandchildren as well. It's just the selfish gene theory that Richard Dawkins proposed.
I have heard the words “you’ll change your mind when you’re older” ever since I was 13, I’m 25 now, I’m older, still haven’t changed my mind children are not for me.
Not yet.. Maybe at 50 and above.. 😉
@@misala11237 i said older not old 😂
As one person said..not being strong enough to face the roller coaster ride of emotions as a parent speaks to me. I dont have that in me. I am also introverted and have anxiety so I cant imagine how I would be as a mom 😭
I personally believe I would be a toxic parent. I am not cut out for it, seriously.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay.
The best part of being single and child free is that you can plan your holidays during off peak seasons or when children are having their exams.
Air tickets and hotels are cheaper
And the places you visit will not be crowded and you get better service due to less crowd.
Can save money
Generation nowadays are sandwiched between their parents and their children and their demands and needs.
So poor thing
Kids are messy, stinky, expensive, a constant responsibility. I don’t see how people want kids, especially in this economy. But to each their own, I won’t judge them, and they need not judge me.
High school chemistry lab where there's a bit of oil and grease on the tables
andover trip in 2 days weather looks in the clear the plan will be brought out
thinking about compounds lately
I can relate not wanting children I knew at age of 12 motherhood wasn’t for me. But some people thought I was young and change my mind. Even as child I tend to do hang around the adults often. I didn’t have a bad childhood except for getting bullied at school when I was very young. I’m a dog person not much in to children. Some babies are cute but I still don’t want any. As Christian woman it makes it’s tough to find a same guy on the same page as me. But I know nothing is exposable with God to sent me right guy.
The concept of the Christian religion itself propagate all Christians to have children if they are able to. I am not judging you but this is this is why I don't like organised religion.
Oh, I deeply relate to you too. I do not want to have kids either, and as a Christian man who desires to marry someday, it can be tough to find a lady who feels the same way. I've been on some Christian dating sites and around 90% of the women there want kids.
@@sirclassicalhou3650 Not really. It is that 90% of the women there have been indoctrinated to think and believe they want kids. Once reality hits, the divorce rate just climbs higher and higher.
@@edith2821 it also says we should go forward and multiply and prosper. And in many examples in the old testament, woman was there to help man and be fruitful. Same in the garden of Eden.
Hence another example of multiple interpretation of the bible. Today many parts around the world, there are Christian churches purposely setup to accept LGBT and in many mainstream churches, it is also acceptable but twenty years ago when I was young, I was told it's not acceptable.
Christianity and "God's word" also "move" with the times ☺️
@@edith2821 i
Every second is gonna cost money (breathing, eating, shitting, sleeping) once it is born)
Love this ladies🥰 childfree life is beautiful
I'm sure loving it! I was telling someone the other day that I feel like I've gotten away with something huge and that's why society is so mad at us!
Many beautiful super stars are child free
@@fongwilliam707 soon enough, they'll become old and ugly, living a depressing and lonely senctitude in their death bed
It's better to don't want kids then to have kids and abandon them
All of the women are quite highly educated
I’m getting my tubes tied. I don’t want to take any chances.
Even if your are the last woman who can bear a child, it is not selfish not to. I mean, you are not hurting the people already alive and you cannot hurt the ones who are unborn. Like, it is not your intention to be selfish, you are just doing what feels natural to you (which happens not to align with popular opinion, but yeah - you can't win them all). Live and let live right? :)
Personal choice. Most kids are too detached from family in SG and will only worsen with stress from society and financial responsibilities. Don’t dream that they will take care of you.
Nice portraits! ✨ I am 34 and this is a good reminder why it's better to not have them. I also miss sometimes the point that there are a lot of children that are in extreme poverty and its better to adopt one or stsrt a project where you help children. 😊
to men: please feel free to be triggered and angry.
i don't want children because:
1. taking care of myself is already tiring, keeping up with work and social life is exhausting. i dont have the time and energy to take care of another human being, let alone have the responsibility to bring up a child.
2. i'm a selfish person - i work hard and make money for myself for myself to enjoy, why would i want to spare my money to a child? no thanks.
3. childbirth- i don't want to go through the pain of labor, and i dont want my body to change from childbirth. i don't want adoption for reasons 1&2 above.
4. i live my life for myself and i want to succeed. i don't want my career or my future to be jeopardised or distracted - i want full focus on myself and my future and i think having a children will be a distraction.
thank you for reading :) women are allowed to be career-focused, have ambitions, and deserve to be successful, just like men! call me a future bosslady or a careerwoman, i'm sorry men please don't be threatened !
am a man and i agree with this
@@justcause9575 Having children doesn't gurantee that they would still be there when you get old thou. Instead of spending the money on the children, better save it for hospice
@@justcause9575 so you volunteer in a hospice but choose to mock them and rob them of every single drop of dignity with your comments here eh...cool!
@@justcause9575 excuse me some nurses take dignity and pride in the way we do our job and no in all my years of how tired and pathetic we feel, we never stoop down as Low as spitting into people’s food.
And here is a little story from a nurse to you,
I once looked after a lady admitted to a hospital and she had the cutest smile and we joked with her everyday, no one in her family visited. When her son finally came and she needed surgery and therapy after, he lost at it and said she was useless, a disgrace on his family, a waste of money and should die so he did not have to visit her anymore and have no more money worries. She literally was bawling and all the nurses and doctors were stunned. Even when the medical officers told him not to say that, he lost it at them. We went to comfort and told her not to cry but she said “it is true, I should die. Nobody loves me, not even my son and my husband is gone. Just let me be with him….”
When we told the specialist, he was so livid, he called the son and tore him a new one. We never saw her smile again…
So the fact is we were more of a family to that old lady and we were nurses and doctors. And her son treated her like crap…
So your logic is absolutely medieval and stop being a polemic
@@Emsyaz yeah yeah keep fooling yourself with these thoughts 😂😂
Society will shame us for not wanting children but show undying support to people who suck at being parents. Stop worrying about people who don't want kids and start focusing on improving the failing parents
Exactly. I seen way too many parents who shouldn't even be having kids in the first place
Actually no one care.. I know i dont care.. 🤭
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay,.,
Yeah I don’t think kids are for me. I don’t think I would be a good mom. I’m am a only child and I’m too selfish.
Actually bringing kids into the world is whats selfish. Not living your life how you want to live it. You live your best life and don't feel guilty!
I already feel overworked with all the office work n personal work. I for sure want me time in a day.if I have kids, I will probably not get that me time too that I so much cherish. I love spending time with myself, travel, read books, watch shows, go for a walk, take a lazy day off here n there n escape to mountains or sea side or do some yoga, work on a new project that I value. I cannot imagine letting this freedom vanish with a child crying or nagging by the side. I would become stressed out. If it is selfish then be it. Mental health, happiness n satisfaction is the most important n how's that even selfish. Now you can say it's selfish if there's a kid n you're sick of it that you leave them behind n do all this stuff. If one has a kid, one should raise them properly n sacrifice as required. Best of both worlds once you're a parent is a myth. Youre cutting corners on any one side.
W o m e n: I want a tubal ligation
Doctor: No.
M e n: I want a vasectomy.
Doctor: Or really? Well spread em' open so I can get to snippin'
Exactly. Women still don't have free choice over their own bodies, unfortunately.
Kids are a financial strain ... unless you're rich!
It's not like there's not enough stress at work ... LOL
Agreed. Even without unforeseen medical/dental costs, it is already a huge burden!
Er no. It is easier to provide when you are more wealthy, but your wealth has nothing to do with your will to have children. Wealthy people tend to have less children than those who are less wealthy because their focus and priorities are different. The ladies in the videos are the result of atomization due to western influence.
@@dutchmilkAtomization is a euphemism for one being self centred. Well, these ladies have their own reasons but I find Esther's reasons and mind set immature and naive. It's bad..
@@jeromestavrosyeo Shall we break down your contradiction?
A decision is based on will and desire. Perhaps you should learn some English.
@@jeromestavrosyeo Again, you should learn some English.
Atomization is neutral in morals. It is not negative nor positive. Perhaps you should stop getting embedded with misinformation and cultural misunderstanding. Where did you get the idea that euphemism meant selfish?
Atomization is the practice of mentality where one considers itself as a priority to decision making. It is not negative nor positive.
It is not hard to notice that Singapore and Taiwan had fallen into ideology slanders over actual facts and knowledge.
I urge you to learn some basic meaning of the language English. It would help you greatly improve your understanding of words and pull yourself out of the label. Labelling is one of the worse ideologies that has spread across the globe.
Your entire reaction shows that you not only lack understanding of meaning, you also went into tunnel vision about the actual problem in society.
I was lucky in that the doctor who delivered me agreed to do a tubal ligation in 1976 (approximately). I've been happily married to the same person for 55 years and never regretted my decision.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay ---/.
thank u for sharing this! i really hope our society will become more accepting and not judgmental of women who choose not to have kids
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay,,?
@@buzzlightyearlight1247Yes it is, not of your business what people do in their down time.
What is it with bouncehouses with you?!
Until recently, if someone got married it was assumed children would soon be coming. It is so good to see this is beginning to change.
I noticed that two out of the four women featured were PhD students, and all were (I presume based on their occupations) university graduates. I wonder if there is a link between highly-educated women and not wanting to to have children?
@@hanalala3164 If your sole purpose of having kids is to have someone to take care of you in the future, best not to have them.
@@medd0ws well what else is the purpose. Lmao if I want the experience of having kids. I can babysit or volunteer. I dont have to pay a fortune to have my own kids and try hard to keep the husband happy so he doesn't leave us.
I can have a series of boyfriends and not worry about being a single mom.
And I can save the money for a good nursing home instead. I can retire early and vacation. There. I tell you why women arent having kids anymore. It just didn't make sense to.
The question should be why are people still having kids nowadays. They're a luxury.
@@hanalala3164 Some people enjoy nurturing another human being. The Asian mentality of having kids as some kind of collateral for old age is seriously questionable. But anyway, maybe it's a good thing kids are no longer good investments. People who want them for that reason shouldn't be having them anyway.
@@medd0ws if its just nurturing another human being. Volunteer work with kids or babysitting would do. Im guessing people want their own kids because they so badly want to 'pass their genes' or 'leave a legacy' of their own blood.
Of course I want to do that to. But having my own kids means Id have to spend so much money on the kid. No free time. Many stress. And I STILL have to save for retirement. Back then kids ARE your retirement.
And when does one get to retire? When im almost 80? Heck. Also Ill probably never have enough money to travel abroad.
@@hanalala3164 I completely agree with you. That is why I had a hysterectomy at 27.
More people should be like these women, we have so many people on this earth already, consuming resources faster than the earth can regenerate. So to add more kids to the pool is a net negative.
I agree.
The population is about to peak. Birth rates are falling all around the world.
@@bizzareadventure8576 we just hit 8 billion. Doubt the human race going extinct anytime soon anyway.
This earth pumps out more resources than we can consume. The creator didn't put us here without providing for us. Women that have children, if can breast feed, breast will produce more milk then the child can consume. The milk will never run out nor the resources on this planet.
Too much self vs society.. it is proven that the more successful and educated a woman is, the less they want kids coz they don’t see a need to sacrifice. Kids nowadays are also harder to manage with all the demands and expectations.
Not mention it is expensive as hell now with inflation and price hikes across the board.
I’m a senior citizen in the west. I sacrificed so much time and energy (and financial security) for my 2 children. I was never a pushy mother and they had lots of love and a great childhood. However I do think that overall, it is a thankless task as one woman said in the video. My children don’t seem to appreciate me or show much concern now that they are adults. Thank goodness I have my dog and cat. You can’t beat the love and loyalty of dogs in particular.
This “don’t want kids” series seems nice. Ask secondary school/poly students next
Kudos to these women for choosing a lifestyle that's best for them. The entire narrative that speaks out against this is about control and nothing else. If enough women decided to live this lifestyle, the patriarcal society of which we live in would completely topple over! Abortion is slowly becoming a thing of the past, next will be birth control. To a single woman who lives without a man, none of this will even matter. We would then see the real nature of men and it isn't pretty or funny. Women hold more power than they realize!
Agree with you that the patriarchal society will be over if more women choose to be childfree but I don't think abortion will be a thing of the past since all birth control isn't 100% effective. In fact, we need more countries and states to legalize abortions so any women would know they have an option to abort the kid instead of raising it. People should also be free to do sterilization procedures as long they are 21. I often hear stories of how doctors refuse to do sterilization because they think their patients should wait till they are 30 in case they change their mind.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay /.-./.
They will counter it by human trafficking. Throw them in the wilderness to be bewildered and lost.
I don’t understand how parents function on sleep deprivation. Going to work plus being a full time parent. How does that not make you extremely I’ll. And how on earth do people afford financially to raise children?
Also I like to go trips without having worry about kids. Cheaper not having get a ticket for a child. I’m 42 btw.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay.
Childfree and carefree 🤗♥️
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -/./
Yeah man...like whisper carefree....🤣
thank u for making this video!
When people ask me if I want kids, I tell them I want to want to have kids, but I just have never wanted kids...As in I waited for the strong desire and hoped it would come, but there's never come a time when I felt that strong urge. Now I'm 43 and I'm a teacher and I'm around all my nieces and nephews and adore them, but I never wish they were mine. When I'm around my friends kids I'm so thankful I don't have kids because they can be quite irritating. And lastly, all of my friends and family who have had kids changed in ways that were kind of sad, as in I like them much better in certain aspects before the kids.
Interesting that none talked about climate change and overpopulation as a reason. I hear these reasons a lot with my european colleagues who chose not have children.
Both doesn't really affect Singapore yet but maybe in the future we will see Singaporeans citing that as a reason. For me, other than simply not wanting kids, the high cost of living is another reason also
I'm 27 and I don't want NO kids .. when I tell people I get .. " Who will take care of you when you're Old " SIGH .. here's some HARSH FACTS .. you might OUT LIVE your children .. parents are burying their children at a RAPID RATE in 2022 .. I've also worked as an OT ( children abandon their older parents in hospitals ALL THE TIME because they simply can't afford to take care of them ) .. who knows if you're child will be a success story .. MOST .. or half will be Locked up or struggling themselves to the point you WOULD STILL HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR THEM or HELP OUT .. Once your children get married .. how do you know their SPOUSE wants to take on the burden of taking care of you .. PLUS THEIR OWN CHILDREN .. some of ya'll HAPPY PARENTS treat your kids like CRAP .. to the point where you may end up have a estranged relationship ..
I say all that to SAY .. nothing is guaranteed in life .. NOTHING !!
but as a Single Woman that will not be having kids .. my GOAL is to make sure I can fully provide for myself in my later years .. my Goal is to adopt a teenager when I'm in my 50's to help another child out .. possibly give them a better life bc i'll prob be bored by that time lol but I'm not living this life with betting my odds on KIDS to take care of me .. BC when life hits which she will .. I won't looking stupid bc my bail out plan didn't work !
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -//.
I feel so connected to her reasons at 7:01 . I could not bear it either
Lot of men don’t want kids, why we talk about them?
Men never get judged harshly in society. It’s called male privilege for a reason.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -/./-.
We've had generation after generation of men fighting war after war after war. We've had enough.
Agree, even the children goes to the government for them to be used as pawns in a war.
So great to see Singaporean women speak out on this, since asian cultures are very conservative on womens roles.
Also the woman who talked about her parents reading her diary and the broken trust, can totally feel that.
If you want to know whether or not you want to have kids then spend time with kids, take care kids of all ages from infancy to young adult and realistically analyze the experience. Make sure you spend time with kids that are challenging or have special needs. That should give you some good idea of your parental experience.
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay --./
I hope there will be a society or travel agency started that will organise tours to all kinds of far flung places for singles n childfree couples, as this demographic like to go to such places n they r not usually available at family oriented package tour Cos.
This is the 21 century. Of course there are😂
In Finland you can get an IUD without having kids first. I personally recommend that birth control method from personal experience. Getting a strelization is more complicated but I hope it will change soon. I was offered it when I said I don't want kids but some gynecologists are still oldfashioned. Sometimes you need your male partner's approval to get it which is kind of insane.
Its same in america lots of doctors will refuse tubal ligation saying "you're selfish you'll change your mind"
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -----
@@yoleeisbored You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
why is it called childless? It should be called voluntary childlessness/ childfree
Yep, it should be called childfree by choice
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay -1-/
Good - I am happy, successful, rich got a good career and lots of friends and nice family members around me, and I do NOT want any children. Thanks, but no thanks! Focus on improving existing lives, not on bringing more human beings in this world full of sufferings, anger, hate and poverty!
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
These are evolved women. Very advanced
You probably also think teens and young adults still using bounce houses is okay
It is not that we treated women as babies producing tools. But society is changing, so are the attitudes of the people towards the concepts of families. Of course, that also coupled with other reasons like the financial costs of raising a child, the empowerment of women and so on. It is a common trends among rich nations.
Yup thats why i said a Feminist who shows much masculinity energy isnt good candidate of motherhood. Feminist is liberal term created fir a cheaper labor and some women got sucked down into rabbit hole.
All my comments deleted by Straits Times. Saw the fear?
Changing for the worse
Treated and STILL treating women like baby producing tools is EXACTLY what you are doing.
@@Childfree334 god gave them a womb for a reason. To produce babies for men.