Well the riveted version requires about twice as work compared to the butted version. So a riveted chainmail probably was very expensive on its time. But also the riveted version would withstand cuts and penetrations from most weapons while the butted only partially protects against it because it busts right open.
I've made a full hauberk of 14 ga galvanized steel wire, butted of course. Took a long time, probably 200 hours total (coiling, cutting, weaving). And for some unknown reason, I really want to make a riveted mail hauberk. This is probably the best, most clear, and precise video I have seen thus far, and not a single word was spoken. Incredible sir, incredibly incredible. Thank you.
@@conorhudson1486 learn the weave with butted links until you are practiced. Mail links are unstable and flop over wrong a lot until your patch of mail grows big enough to be stable, about as big as your hand. A good way to start is to think of mail in 5-link units, with a single link in the center joining four links at the corners of a square surrounding it. The links in the corners will all lean the same way, opposite from the corresponding lean of the link in the center. Make sure they're like that. There are ways to make this happen automatically, with little thought. What I like to do is start by making a chain of alternating double and single links,2 links 1 link 2 links etc. Always start with two links. All the doubled links may be closed up ahead of time; use an open link to hook two pairs of links together all the way down the chain. Now here's the trick: lay the chain flat on your worktable and smooth it so the doubled links all lean one direction and the single links all lean the other way. THIS IS A LONG CHAIN OF FIVE-LINK MAIL UNITS, all strung together. Now you have to put links down one side of that chain, weaving a single open link into pairs of closed links bordering the long chain. These links you add WIIL HAVE THE SAME LEAN AS THE SINGLE LINKS THAT JOIN THE DOUBLED ONES. Now your entire chain is 2 links 2 links 2 links all the way down. Go back and add links onto this edge but this time always being sure these links lean like the doubled links do. They will also be in the same linkrow. Now you have a ribbon of mail that runs 3 links 2 links 3 links etc. Whatever you do, don't pick your mail up off your table to add links -- just slide links up to the edge of the mail ribbon and close them when they're hooked in. By now your mailpatch has grown big enough to get stable. Just keep smoothing it out with your hands as you go, watching for links at the edges to flop over on you. Put 'em back.
It is very relaxing craft indeed and quite easy to learn. I have made different kind of chainmail patterns and even made a chainmail coif. I highly recommend trying out, it's not expensive either
You can buy premade rings online if you don't want to make them yourself. For starters butted mail would be a good choice- it's easier, cheaper (all though it's not expensive to begin with) and takes a lot less time (you don't have to rivet every single bloody ring in the pattern) but it's a lot less durable. Riveted mail will withstand pretty much every cutting test imaginable and will hold up pretty ok to thrusts whereas butte mail can fail you even at cutting tests and it just won't survive any significant thrusting test. It does take a long time to make even a small piece but it's well worth it and if you are into HEMA it could save you hundreds of dollars or even turn into a small source of income. Well made riveted chainmail can sale for quite the handsome premium.
@@edim108 even if its less durable you dont need it to save your life , hell even if you want it to save your life a kingsmaile butted mail shkrt will do just fine against any would be attacker
@@howmuchbeforechamp Butted mail can rip even if you pull it too hard. It's really not very good, but it's much less time consuming to make- that's why it's also cheaper to buy fully made butted mail than riveted mail.
@@edim108 well i agree in can be pulled apart easily , but not if you use a thick wire , i have a vest i run with made from 2mm wire , its not something i can easily pull apart woth my bare hands And i am in the process of making a 6in1 vest with 2.2mm wire and i can garuntee you would need two big guys pulling on it to bend open the rings But yes its uncomparable how much less effort butted mail is , also i geusse you could weld butted mail should you be so inclined Also its not meant to stop a sword or arrow so its really not neccesary to get rivetted mail
Idk why I'm watching this right now. I also don't know why I now have the urge to make this. I have no prior experience, no materials, no tools or any time to do this, but the idea has been planted in my head, and I thank you for it, sir.
I can spend all day, cutting, grinding, welding, turning and filing steel. I come home, and relax watching someone making chainmail with the birds singing in the background. First thing I thought? I wonder if I could make a version with loads of circlips, and small mild steel pins?
@@custodianvrael6471 Man, that sounds awesome. I'd love to try a project like that. Sadly, I live in an apartment building, and would have to find a way to make it without any eternally repeating hammer strikes
@@surrealdynamics4077 your town, or one near by, might have an artist or artisan space. Might have to pay rent, but you can ask around if anyone does smithing, and buy or trade for time, space, and supplies.
Yes you can make riveted mail of circlips and pin rivets. I've handled the stuff. It's a rather heavy mail; I think 18ga, 1.2mm, wire links run a bit lighter weight and don't look kind of funny. But if the price of circlips in bulk is no object, you will get strong mail out of it. Expect to grow muscles working these links -- circlips are stout.
@@surrealdynamics4077 one word -- okay, two. COMPOUND LEVERAGE, using big bolt cutters with modified tong like jaws fitted. Why whack when you can squeeze?
Although rivetted mail is more time consuming and labour intensive, it's worth it as the outcome is you have a very reliable and sturdy product that would survive brutal condition and most of all not tear open easily like a butted chainmail would......My passion n desire to make a chainmail had been revived!!😎😎😎
Even though this is 6 months late...my 1/4 inch inside diameter 14 gauge steel butted maille wont tear. Had several people try...rings are too small and too many in a small area. I trust my maille
@@dylannecros3636 original poster I assume means by literally 2 handed tearing it apart which I had 3 different "well" built guys try from work. I dont think a crowbar is gonna do much in the way of tearing my maille. I do know however that a rapier will only penetrate an inch and a quarter. The rings are small enough to basically stop a rapier from spreading the one ring the rapier centered on. But like I said I'll trust my work you dont have to take my word for it. As for the crowbill articles I've just read up on they state that crowbills were designed to pierce maille. Before hand I've never heard of a crowbill only of military picks and hammers. Friends sword (probably a cheap thing I dont know) chipped all along the contacted spots when he made a slashing move of some sort.
LilRed Wagon yes, it must have been a cheap sword. Most battle ready swords, unless if made with an extremely fine edge, which most aren’t, won’t chip so easily just by being swung into chainmail. I also meant actual stabbing with a sword, not swinging away. Some swords were better able to penetrate chainmail because the tips were broader and sturdier, allowing them to force open rings. I suppose it also depends on what target did you have the chainmail hanging from? Was it on a training dummy or a bale of hay, or just hanging loosely like a sheet on a cloths line when your friends were doing their thing? It’s not going to have authentic resistance pushing back on the weapon like if it were being worn by a man that’s at least 100 pounds, which would contribute to determining if it would stand up against attacks.
@@dylannecros3636 I dont think a sword of any caliber is gonna slice through 14 gauge galvanized steel wire if that's what you're implying? And no a broadsword wasnt used to stab or poke but as I stated a rapier was used. The maille was draped over a manakin from an old clothing store. Just bought it from a pawn shop for cheap to use haha! The slashes did gouge a few links but that's all. Oh a cheap Chinese made "katana" was used for the slashes by the way.
You forget, everything back in that time was done by hand with just as much painstaking effort. You can't judge the past through the eyes of the present and use modern methods as the touchstone.
@@MedievalGenie you can call it technology since tekne and logos are greek words. Tekne is knowlegde and logos is study of. So basically knowledge of knowledge. So not all technology is modern
I have just started learning chainmail to make jewelry and never have I dipped my toes into a craft that had such a disparity between origins and modern usage. Honestly, I also crochet and it’s easier to grow the cotton, spin it, dye it, make it into thread, then yarn, and then crochet something with it than it is to make authentic European chainmail. In other words, my immediately visceral reaction to this video was: ABSOLUTELY NOT. Very interesting and well made though.
For all those who want to get into making your own maille, but are scared away by the sheer amount of work that goes into the historically correct way: You don't need to make the rings and rivets yourself like he does. Yes, your rings bought online wont look as good as his, but it's close enough. The work needed to do all the rings yourself is, as you can see, absolutely ridiculous and probably only for people who have made some maille armor allready. Second, if you start out and are not sure if it's something for you, pls for the love of god do a mixed ring construction (if the tailoring allows it). It is somewhat stronger, still historically accurate and half the work. I started out with fully riveted construction and especially in the beginning, where you still have to figure out your own best workflow, you will struggle and probably get frustrated by your slow progress, if you don't push yourself. Making riveted maille won't ever be a fast process, but you can get rather quick if you get used to it. Especially with a mixed ring construction. Third, pls don't make a whole hauberk/haubergeon (shirt of maille) as your first project. It is the most time consuming and expensive project in the world of maille armor you could choose and the tailoring you need to do is hard. So again, if you aren't fully commited yet, it is just too big of a project. Do a maille standard or if you want something more challenging, a coif. You will see more progress and in a few weeks time you will have a finished piece of maille armor and know if you want to continue with the hobby. Hope this helps someone who wants to get into it. For those still considering, try it out. It really is a relaxing hobby and there is very high satisfaction in having made your own armor. Echt krasses Video Ironskin. Der Aufwand ist ja wirklich astronomisch... Machst du für all deine Projekte die Ringe selber oder ist das eher ein living history Ding, wo du eher den Prozess nachvollziehen möchtest?
True words! I have to add that a horse armor (or elephant armor) would be the most time consuming project in the world of mail. :D In fact even the last scenes in the video show commercial rings, because I had to get it done in one day. I do make rings to experiment with them, but most of the time I use premade rings for tailoring projects.
I found it time consuming enough to add a brass trim to my rivetted mail, I ordered the brass rings pre manufactured and only had to add the trim a few rows deep 1 ring at a time of course. Much respect to those who make full pieces your patients is far beyond my own.
That is insanely labor intensive. Only the richest knights can afford riveted mail. The rivers really require really renowned riveting repertoires of skills.
yes, i bought a loose 5mm (along juglars) and 8mm elsewhere) washers and pre cut flat rivets made my own double layered aventail one over cuirass and underneath bevor. and one underneath my forged gothic cuirass with simple linen backing to prevent chaffing on my gambeson, leather liner around my neck rim, took 2? months doing maybe 2 hours a day if i had to spool, anneal, smash, drift, itd take longer
Actually it was commonly riveted. www.google.com/search?q=was+medieval+chainmail+riveted%3F&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-home&sxsrf=AB5stBhSd6JRi3Rnl2WNlVpODAEN4P_meA%3A1688194452982&source=hp&ei=lM2fZMrMOcyG9u8PrKOm6AI&oq=was+medieval+chainmail+riveted%3F&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIfd2FzIG1lZGlldmFsIGNoYWlubWFpbCByaXZldGVkPzIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigAUih8AFQmBNYx-QBcAx4AJABAZgB4wKgAZhBqgEIMC4zNi44LjS4AQPIAQD4AQGoAg_CAgcQIxjqAhgnwgIHEC4Y6gIYJ8ICDRAuGMcBGK8BGOoCGCfCAgQQIxgnwgIHECMYigUYJ8ICCBAuGIoFGJECwgIIEAAYigUYkQLCAgsQLhiABBjHARjRA8ICBRAAGIAEwgIHEC4YigUYJ8ICBRAuGIAEwgIIEC4YgAQY1ALCAgcQABiABBgKwgINEC4YgAQYxwEY0QMYCsICChAAGIAEGMkDGArCAggQABiKBRiSA8ICBxAuGIAEGArCAggQABiABBjLAcICCBAuGIAEGMsBwgIOEC4YgAQYxwEYrwEYyQPCAgcQABgNGIAEwgIMECMYigUYExiABBgnwgIKEC4YxwEYrwEYJ8ICCBAAGIAEGMkDwgIGEAAYFhgewgIIEAAYFhgeGA_CAgcQIRigARgKwgIIEAAYigUYhgPCAggQIRgWGB4YHcICChAhGBYYHhgPGB3CAgUQABiiBMICCBAAGIkFGKIE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp
❤AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY GOOD QUALITY CHAINMAIL IS SO EXPENSIVE ITS BECAUSE OF ALL THE INTENSIVE WORK THAT IT REQUIRES MAD RESPECT FOR YOUR SKILLS AND TALENT ❤
For punching, I use a little hardened steel rod that I shaped into this form. I put the rings on a piece of hard firewood to punch them. The wood helps to preserve my punching tool. It happens that the rings get pushed into the wood and deform. Most time it is when they are not annealed properly or the overlap is too narrow. I wrote a guide to catch all these questions. Maybe that's something for you. www.ironskin.com/product/ironskins-guide-to-making-riveted-chainmail/
Wunderschöne Handarbeit! Ich hab's Anfang dieser Woche kognitiv nicht auf die Reihe gebracht, zwei Reihen miteinander zu verbinden. Dein Video macht mir neuen Mut es nochmal zu probieren. :)
Я: Чтобы посмотреть в 11 часу ночи на сон грядущий? Ютуб: Посмотри как делают кольчуги. Я: Обалдеть, это же сколько труда и какая кропотливая работа... Мое искренее восхищение!
A thought. Rather than try to hold a handful of rings as you are trying to add ‘the next row’ for instance, how about taking a wood board and put a small tack through one ring, in the upper left corner (for right handed people). Then as you add the frost row of, say, 10, and put another tack in that one. Then each row hangs right in front of you as you add more rows or column’s, and when you have a certain size, set that aside and start over for the next square or sheet, etc., then later you can hang each block and knit the next block to it while always being able to see where you are. Just a thought.
Stitching blocks together as shown here is the hard way. It's much easier to work an edge, like knitting. That way you only need to thread through 2 rings, and riveting is far more accessible. I've only made chain mail from split ring washers, no ring production or riveting, but by working an edge it's much easier to get the needle nose pliers where you need them.
@@dougaltolan3017 Thanks for your comment! (And knitting is exactly what I was thinking of! I’ve done some off and on, but this, making chain mail, seems to lend itself closely to that. I know some folks like to reproduce things the same way it was originally made, and not just chain mail, woodworking, string instrument making, violin making comes to mind, using only the tools available at that time, no electricity, etc., but I would like to finish a project in my lifetime! Question… is putting the chain in a fire for the purpose of case hardening?)
@@backpages1 in this video the fire treatment is to reverse work hardening. If you've ever worked silver, it's a similar thing. The metal is worked cold, but becomes brittle with working. The heat treatment makes it maleable (a bit) again. Other people have asked if there is a post assembly heat treatment like case hardening. That, I don't know. But the heat treatment here, and the subsequent working cannot be for hot working, so it must be anealing.
He's making it old school. I haven't done it in a while but when I did I used a long bolt of the diameter I wanted the links to be. Cut off the head and cut a short slot in the other end. Chuck the steel bolt into a drill then feed the wire through two pieces of wood held together in a vice (for tension). Once you have a bunch of these wire springs made use some good cutters to cut them into rings. Braid the links into chainmail. I never bothered to weld the chainmail links and would occasionally have to replace missing links, but it was never a big deal. If you wanted to weld them I'd use a small welder to tack the links closed...easy peasy.
Unfassbar! Großen Respekt. Auch dass du die Ringe selber machst. Die Technik des Vernietens ist natürlich nochmal um einiges aufwändiger als die Ringe mit einer Zange auf und zu zu machen. Bravo!
I suspect that, where it was an option like for the Romans, maille was made in a quasi-industrial process: I can imagine a couple of was an armourer with journeymen and apprentices etc, could set up a sort of assembly line to produce sheets of maille - some sort of rig could be set up to set rivets for instance...
Just came from the LOTR behind the scene, there were a handful of people that made all the chain mail. They did it for like 12 hrs a day for months straight. Hard to imagine
Question for the creator, when you completed the process of creating the chain mail, were you finished? or did you have to temper or heat treat the armor afterwards? Just curious.
so, either I fill my summer with blood sweat and tears only to be rewarded with something I'll use once or twice with my bros OR I just buy it... but it's not about the money, it's about sending a message.
I suppose you dont need any really stiff metal to make it since the rivets hold it together, cus I made a butted coif for a school project and I want to turn it into and a full face aventail for a gjermundbu style helmet I have.
I can't even imagine the amount of people they needed to mass produce this in the medieval era for the armys given I'm sure not everyone had mail but still the process not only just to weave it all together but to size and shape it all properly jeez.
It is believed that they made up regular mail patches until they had an inventory. These would then be zipped together to make up shirts of any size, collars, voiders, and other mail articles. Even pot scrubbers maybe., Once the slow business of weaving the mail patches was done, final assembly was quick. "You need it Thursday? Done."
@@w.reidripley1968This is about how I did my shirts after my first one. I could make a front, back, collar, and sleeve. The collar would have expansions built in and I'd add ones to the sides to fit to as needed. Made production so much easier.
@@scarling9367 Yeah. I think I call that fashion of shoulder and neck hole a 'mantle top,' after the round kind of bishops-mantle. It's all going round and round in circles, putting in expansions as you go. Unusual in historical shirts, but not unheard-of; I suspect the Boris Godunov shirt in the Hermitage is one such. Something I eventually learned was that giving a shirt a bit of a waist helps it not slide down through your cinch belt, no matter how vigorously you move. I tend to build the body of the shirt pretty much as a single bloc, with places/suits included to insert expansion arrays for tailoring and for free arm mobility. This keeps me out of trouble with link rows mismatching -- or worse, gone spiral.
@@w.reidripley1968 I think I've read about the Bishop design. The shirts I made were block design with expansions in the back for arm mobility. And yes, I also noticed that contractions and expansions around the belt line let it sit on the waist better.
I made a mail 30 years ago, with 12 mm keyrings. Can make one in a week. I have an original persian mail from around 1860, made out of 8 mm keyrings. They used modern technique for their time.
I made a good of chainmail once in my early years, like 20 or so. Had nothing to spend my time on so it ate up a week or something. I made it of aluminum wire and no flattening or riveting. It wasn’t meant for fighting but looking good, and it looked good. Wove 2 layers of rings throughout the whole thing. My brother wound up asking for it.
Well you could rivet each loop, but sometimes you’d have a few whole rings in there. Easier to make and more structurally sound. Ironskin has a website where you can read all about this stuff
@@Ironskin What he said. Hold up a proper sleeve of mail and it looks a lot like a sock with a heel to it. NOT just a tube. Taper down from elbow to wrist, which will be rather irregular and fiddly. Sleeves of mail are in open hang so the mail flows with the action of your shoulder and especially your elbow, which totally needs that extra slack. The hang of the sleeves is in contrast with the mail on the body, which rides in closed hang. Fits itself to you.
I should give this another go. I tried making riveted maille 20 years ago when I was in high school but stopped after getting a roughly 7x7 cm piece and wasted a lot of rings by not having a good normalizing process. Just stuck with butted rings from there on.
Just a quick question, how did medieval smiths forge metal into wires in the first place? Love the work, keep it up. Edit: also I can see these rings got flattened at some point after 3:33, did you just whack them flat with a hammer or press them? Would love to know.
I know that one method of making wire is to draw metal stock through gauged holes, smaller and smaller, until it's the gauge desired. That works with copper and gold. I don't know if that's how steel is done.
What Charles Coslor described also works for iron-wire and has been used in history. It is forged into a rod and then pulled through ever-smaller holes in a plate. Yes, I hit the rings directly with a hammer to flatten them. Alternatively, you can whack a rod resting on the ring. In the video I show both ways.
@@Ironskin The big modern difference is that the ancient way ran the drawn wire back and forth between two stout reels, passing through a hardened steel draw plate between them. The modern method runs the wire unidirectionally through a lengthy series of die stations along the wire path. The process is pretty much round rod stock into one end and finished wire out the other; coil and ship out... to Boston...
That's how they get shark mail/butchers' mail. Though the stainless steel resultant product is so fine it looks more like heavy silvery gray cloth rather than a war-knitting.
For everyone talking about how expensive maille used to be, it is an expensive process now but was pretty standard in the later medieval era. It took a while to make, but labor wasn’t super expensive. Most people back then worked their asses off in every field of work, but you don’t see outrageous prices on meat, clothes, et cetera.
My first mail shirt I made of 14g galvanized steel wire I bought at home depot I used a 3/16" steel rod to make my coils and cut them using a 6" diagonal cutter broke one and had to finish with another set. My shirt ended up weighing over 25 lbs(11.3kg). After I hurt my back I decided to make a new one but I used aluminum rings precoiled and saw cut Still came out to over 7lbs(3.2kg). I made a third shirt this time out of scales made of plastic it came out to just 5lbs(2.3kg). I want to try my hand at riveted mail too even though I know I'd never be able to wear it. I wear a 4xl shirt and all my mail shirts come to about mid thigh in length.
Sir, please make a video of riveted six-in-one weave, if you're so inclined; one day I would like to craft it myself. I'm not sure how expansions and contractions would be done with the 6-1 pattern.
Thanks for the video, I've just started blacksmithing and would love to try this at one point, can I ask what kind of wire and size (thickness ) ect do you use for this?
@@user-hh6eo8fj2q It's an essential question. You got this. I like to use two rods, one rather thicker than the other for initial and finalized overlapped diameter, ready to flatten with a hammer stroke. A hammer of four pounds' weight is about optimal for the job -- fewer hits per link.
Im wondering if welded chain mail would be easier to make or if it would be stronger. The other thing i wonder about is why i never see anyone hardening it.
I'm imagining someone spending hundreds of hours making chainmail armor, only to die within 15 seconds of their first fight by someone caving their head in with a hammer.
“Why is chain mail so expensive?!?”
“Here, watch this video.”
@BlackSword Honestly. You’re usually getting a good deal.
Well the riveted version requires about twice as work compared to the butted version. So a riveted chainmail probably was very expensive on its time.
But also the riveted version would withstand cuts and penetrations from most weapons while the butted only partially protects against it because it busts right open.
Or at least riveted 4x1 chainmail ain't gonna speak for bent-wheel chainmail or double riveted chainmail and 6x1 8x2 weaves.
I bought a welded stainless steel shirt- for $320. I honestly feel like it should have been $400.
@@triforcehero6264 if you got it from ringmesh its made by a machine. great stuff though i got a anodized hauberk and its great
I was considering making chainmail. Then I watched this video and came to my senses
Start with butted to learn the weaves.
Gambeson only kits
You can use modern tools to save a LOT of time.
So you made the chain mail
I made a sleeve, took almost a month
I've made a full hauberk of 14 ga galvanized steel wire, butted of course. Took a long time, probably 200 hours total (coiling, cutting, weaving). And for some unknown reason, I really want to make a riveted mail hauberk. This is probably the best, most clear, and precise video I have seen thus far, and not a single word was spoken. Incredible sir, incredibly incredible. Thank you.
What was the inside diameter of your rings..?
I find making the riveted ring the easy part, linking the rings seems like an impossible task to me, I always get them wrong
@@conorhudson1486 learn the weave with butted links until you are practiced.
Mail links are unstable and flop over wrong a lot until your patch of mail grows big enough to be stable, about as big as your hand.
A good way to start is to think of mail in 5-link units, with a single link in the center joining four links at the corners of a square surrounding it. The links in the corners will all lean the same way, opposite from the corresponding lean of the link in the center. Make sure they're like that.
There are ways to make this happen automatically, with little thought.
What I like to do is start by making a chain of alternating double and single links,2 links 1 link 2 links etc. Always start with two links. All the doubled links may be closed up ahead of time; use an open link to hook two pairs of links together all the way down the chain.
Now here's the trick: lay the chain flat on your worktable and smooth it so the doubled links all lean one direction and the single links all lean the other way.
THIS IS A LONG CHAIN OF FIVE-LINK MAIL UNITS, all strung together.
Now you have to put links down one side of that chain, weaving a single open link into pairs of closed links bordering the long chain. These links you add WIIL HAVE THE SAME LEAN AS THE SINGLE LINKS THAT JOIN THE DOUBLED ONES. Now your entire chain is 2 links 2 links 2 links all the way down.
Go back and add links onto this edge but this time always being sure these links lean like the doubled links do. They will also be in the same linkrow. Now you have a ribbon of mail that runs 3 links 2 links 3 links etc.
Whatever you do, don't pick your mail up off your table to add links -- just slide links up to the edge of the mail ribbon and close them when they're hooked in.
By now your mailpatch has grown big enough to get stable. Just keep smoothing it out with your hands as you go, watching for links at the edges to flop over on you. Put 'em back.
And this doesn't even get to the final heat treating/tempering!
@@MonkeyJedi99 can you heat treat galvanised steel? Thought it gave off some nasty fumes
It seems therapeutic and incredibly mindnumbing at once.
I wanna try to make some at some point
It is very relaxing craft indeed and quite easy to learn. I have made different kind of chainmail patterns and even made a chainmail coif. I highly recommend trying out, it's not expensive either
You can buy premade rings online if you don't want to make them yourself.
For starters butted mail would be a good choice- it's easier, cheaper (all though it's not expensive to begin with) and takes a lot less time (you don't have to rivet every single bloody ring in the pattern) but it's a lot less durable.
Riveted mail will withstand pretty much every cutting test imaginable and will hold up pretty ok to thrusts whereas butte mail can fail you even at cutting tests and it just won't survive any significant thrusting test.
It does take a long time to make even a small piece but it's well worth it and if you are into HEMA it could save you hundreds of dollars or even turn into a small source of income.
Well made riveted chainmail can sale for quite the handsome premium.
@@edim108 even if its less durable you dont need it to save your life , hell even if you want it to save your life a kingsmaile butted mail shkrt will do just fine against any would be attacker
@@howmuchbeforechamp Butted mail can rip even if you pull it too hard. It's really not very good, but it's much less time consuming to make- that's why it's also cheaper to buy fully made butted mail than riveted mail.
@@edim108 well i agree in can be pulled apart easily , but not if you use a thick wire , i have a vest i run with made from 2mm wire , its not something i can easily pull apart woth my bare hands
And i am in the process of making a 6in1 vest with 2.2mm wire and i can garuntee you would need two big guys pulling on it to bend open the rings
But yes its uncomparable how much less effort butted mail is , also i geusse you could weld butted mail should you be so inclined
Also its not meant to stop a sword or arrow so its really not neccesary to get rivetted mail
Its good to see people who respect the craft
Idk why I'm watching this right now.
I also don't know why I now have the urge to make this.
I have no prior experience, no materials, no tools or any time to do this, but the idea has been planted in my head, and I thank you for it, sir.
I can spend all day, cutting, grinding, welding, turning and filing steel.
I come home, and relax watching someone making chainmail with the birds singing in the background.
First thing I thought?
I wonder if I could make a version with loads of circlips, and small mild steel pins?
I know a guy who made a Hauberk out of soda can tabs
@@custodianvrael6471 Man, that sounds awesome. I'd love to try a project like that. Sadly, I live in an apartment building, and would have to find a way to make it without any eternally repeating hammer strikes
@@surrealdynamics4077 your town, or one near by, might have an artist or artisan space. Might have to pay rent, but you can ask around if anyone does smithing, and buy or trade for time, space, and supplies.
Yes you can make riveted mail of circlips and pin rivets. I've handled the stuff. It's a rather heavy mail; I think 18ga, 1.2mm, wire links run a bit lighter weight and don't look kind of funny. But if the price of circlips in bulk is no object, you will get strong mail out of it. Expect to grow muscles working these links -- circlips are stout.
@@surrealdynamics4077 one word -- okay, two. COMPOUND LEVERAGE, using big bolt cutters with modified tong like jaws fitted. Why whack when you can squeeze?
I was so excited to see you punch (rather than drill) the rivet hole.
Very nice work. Bravo.
Although rivetted mail is more time consuming and labour intensive, it's worth it as the outcome is you have a very reliable and sturdy product that would survive brutal condition and most of all not tear open easily like a butted chainmail would......My passion n desire to make a chainmail had been revived!!😎😎😎
Even though this is 6 months late...my 1/4 inch inside diameter 14 gauge steel butted maille wont tear. Had several people try...rings are too small and too many in a small area. I trust my maille
LilRed Wagon how did they try? Were they using their hands, stabbing with a sword, or using something like a crowbill (not a crowbar, a crowbill)?
@@dylannecros3636 original poster I assume means by literally 2 handed tearing it apart which I had 3 different "well" built guys try from work. I dont think a crowbar is gonna do much in the way of tearing my maille. I do know however that a rapier will only penetrate an inch and a quarter. The rings are small enough to basically stop a rapier from spreading the one ring the rapier centered on. But like I said I'll trust my work you dont have to take my word for it. As for the crowbill articles I've just read up on they state that crowbills were designed to pierce maille. Before hand I've never heard of a crowbill only of military picks and hammers. Friends sword (probably a cheap thing I dont know) chipped all along the contacted spots when he made a slashing move of some sort.
LilRed Wagon yes, it must have been a cheap sword. Most battle ready swords, unless if made with an extremely fine edge, which most aren’t, won’t chip so easily just by being swung into chainmail. I also meant actual stabbing with a sword, not swinging away. Some swords were better able to penetrate chainmail because the tips were broader and sturdier, allowing them to force open rings. I suppose it also depends on what target did you have the chainmail hanging from? Was it on a training dummy or a bale of hay, or just hanging loosely like a sheet on a cloths line when your friends were doing their thing? It’s not going to have authentic resistance pushing back on the weapon like if it were being worn by a man that’s at least 100 pounds, which would contribute to determining if it would stand up against attacks.
@@dylannecros3636 I dont think a sword of any caliber is gonna slice through 14 gauge galvanized steel wire if that's what you're implying? And no a broadsword wasnt used to stab or poke but as I stated a rapier was used. The maille was draped over a manakin from an old clothing store. Just bought it from a pawn shop for cheap to use haha! The slashes did gouge a few links but that's all. Oh a cheap Chinese made "katana" was used for the slashes by the way.
For anyone wondering why a medieval suit of mail did cost as much as a house: ^
much as a ship***
back then or now?
@@QueueWithACapitalQ back then
You forget, everything back in that time was done by hand with just as much painstaking effort. You can't judge the past through the eyes of the present and use modern methods as the touchstone.
It didn't though?
Woah, that riveting pliers would be handy to have...
Medieval version of primitive technology. Love it.
You could almost call it "Medieval technology".
true =D
It’s like the Medieval equivalent to the bulletproof vest... If you were trying to block arrows and sword strikes instead of bullets.
@@MedievalGenie you can call it technology since tekne and logos are greek words. Tekne is knowlegde and logos is study of. So basically knowledge of knowledge. So not all technology is modern
@@codyr.48 that would be a coat of plate they looks very Similar
I have just started learning chainmail to make jewelry and never have I dipped my toes into a craft that had such a disparity between origins and modern usage. Honestly, I also crochet and it’s easier to grow the cotton, spin it, dye it, make it into thread, then yarn, and then crochet something with it than it is to make authentic European chainmail. In other words, my immediately visceral reaction to this video was: ABSOLUTELY NOT. Very interesting and well made though.
For all those who want to get into making your own maille, but are scared away by the sheer amount of work that goes into the historically correct way:
You don't need to make the rings and rivets yourself like he does. Yes, your rings bought online wont look as good as his, but it's close enough. The work needed to do all the rings yourself is, as you can see, absolutely ridiculous and probably only for people who have made some maille armor allready.
Second, if you start out and are not sure if it's something for you, pls for the love of god do a mixed ring construction (if the tailoring allows it). It is somewhat stronger, still historically accurate and half the work. I started out with fully riveted construction and especially in the beginning, where you still have to figure out your own best workflow, you will struggle and probably get frustrated by your slow progress, if you don't push yourself. Making riveted maille won't ever be a fast process, but you can get rather quick if you get used to it. Especially with a mixed ring construction.
Third, pls don't make a whole hauberk/haubergeon (shirt of maille) as your first project. It is the most time consuming and expensive project in the world of maille armor you could choose and the tailoring you need to do is hard. So again, if you aren't fully commited yet, it is just too big of a project. Do a maille standard or if you want something more challenging, a coif. You will see more progress and in a few weeks time you will have a finished piece of maille armor and know if you want to continue with the hobby.
Hope this helps someone who wants to get into it. For those still considering, try it out. It really is a relaxing hobby and there is very high satisfaction in having made your own armor.
Echt krasses Video Ironskin. Der Aufwand ist ja wirklich astronomisch... Machst du für all deine Projekte die Ringe selber oder ist das eher ein living history Ding, wo du eher den Prozess nachvollziehen möchtest?
True words! I have to add that a horse armor (or elephant armor) would be the most time consuming project in the world of mail. :D
In fact even the last scenes in the video show commercial rings, because I had to get it done in one day. I do make rings to experiment with them, but most of the time I use premade rings for tailoring projects.
Mixed construction is also known in the Arms & Armor world as 'half nailed,' or 'demi-clouée.'
I found it time consuming enough to add a brass trim to my rivetted mail, I ordered the brass rings pre manufactured and only had to add the trim a few rows deep 1 ring at a time of course. Much respect to those who make full pieces your patients is far beyond my own.
That is insanely labor intensive. Only the richest knights can afford riveted mail. The rivers really require really renowned riveting repertoires of skills.
yes, i bought a loose 5mm (along juglars) and 8mm elsewhere) washers and pre cut flat rivets made my own double layered aventail one over cuirass and underneath bevor. and one underneath my forged gothic cuirass with simple linen backing to prevent chaffing on my gambeson, leather liner around my neck rim, took 2? months doing maybe 2 hours a day if i had to spool, anneal, smash, drift, itd take longer
Actually it was commonly riveted.
www.google.com/search?q=was+medieval+chainmail+riveted%3F&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-home&sxsrf=AB5stBhSd6JRi3Rnl2WNlVpODAEN4P_meA%3A1688194452982&source=hp&ei=lM2fZMrMOcyG9u8PrKOm6AI&oq=was+medieval+chainmail+riveted%3F&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIfd2FzIG1lZGlldmFsIGNoYWlubWFpbCByaXZldGVkPzIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigAUih8AFQmBNYx-QBcAx4AJABAZgB4wKgAZhBqgEIMC4zNi44LjS4AQPIAQD4AQGoAg_CAgcQIxjqAhgnwgIHEC4Y6gIYJ8ICDRAuGMcBGK8BGOoCGCfCAgQQIxgnwgIHECMYigUYJ8ICCBAuGIoFGJECwgIIEAAYigUYkQLCAgsQLhiABBjHARjRA8ICBRAAGIAEwgIHEC4YigUYJ8ICBRAuGIAEwgIIEC4YgAQY1ALCAgcQABiABBgKwgINEC4YgAQYxwEY0QMYCsICChAAGIAEGMkDGArCAggQABiKBRiSA8ICBxAuGIAEGArCAggQABiABBjLAcICCBAuGIAEGMsBwgIOEC4YgAQYxwEYrwEYyQPCAgcQABgNGIAEwgIMECMYigUYExiABBgnwgIKEC4YxwEYrwEYJ8ICCBAAGIAEGMkDwgIGEAAYFhgewgIIEAAYFhgeGA_CAgcQIRigARgKwgIIEAAYigUYhgPCAggQIRgWGB4YHcICChAhGBYYHhgPGB3CAgUQABiiBMICCBAAGIkFGKIE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp
It really is riveting
Easy to repair tho but yes
In the early medieval yes, but by the high medievel every professional soldier would have been wearing a full mail hauberk at minimum
As someone who makes jewelry I get lost in the process and I love it.
Absolutely amazing video! I think I will start saving for one of your kits, Ironskin!
Thank you for the praise! I'd be so thrilled to know TheREALSlimShady is using my tool kit. :D
❤AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY GOOD QUALITY CHAINMAIL IS SO EXPENSIVE ITS BECAUSE OF ALL THE INTENSIVE WORK THAT IT REQUIRES
MAD RESPECT FOR YOUR SKILLS AND TALENT ❤
I love your dedication and pure craftsmanship. Superb. A pleasure to watch
What did you punch the rings on at 3:10? Whenever I try to punch my rings, I always end up destroying them.
For punching, I use a little hardened steel rod that I shaped into this form. I put the rings on a piece of hard firewood to punch them. The wood helps to preserve my punching tool. It happens that the rings get pushed into the wood and deform. Most time it is when they are not annealed properly or the overlap is too narrow. I wrote a guide to catch all these questions. Maybe that's something for you. www.ironskin.com/product/ironskins-guide-to-making-riveted-chainmail/
Wunderschöne Handarbeit!
Ich hab's Anfang dieser Woche kognitiv nicht auf die Reihe gebracht, zwei Reihen miteinander zu verbinden. Dein Video macht mir neuen Mut es nochmal zu probieren. :)
Master of your craft! Love the rivets.
Can you make a video showing how to make those tools? It would help a lot.
That's a good idea for a future video! I already share a view rough instructions on my blog: www.ironskin.com/category/making-tools-for-mail-armor/
Я: Чтобы посмотреть в 11 часу ночи на сон грядущий?
Ютуб: Посмотри как делают кольчуги.
Я: Обалдеть, это же сколько труда и какая кропотливая работа... Мое искренее восхищение!
At last someone who actually knows what they are doing. Really excellent video.
Fantastic video! I wish I had it when I first started making chainmail!
great video. seems like applying the rivets once you have the actual chain coming together is mind numbingly tedious. hope you post more videos!
Really riveting stuff.
this whole video was absolutely rivetting
I remember the first time making chainmail. The tips of my thumbs were hard as a rock.
A thought. Rather than try to hold a handful of rings as you are trying to add ‘the next row’ for instance, how about taking a wood board and put a small tack through one ring, in the upper left corner (for right handed people). Then as you add the frost row of, say, 10, and put another tack in that one. Then each row hangs right in front of you as you add more rows or column’s, and when you have a certain size, set that aside and start over for the next square or sheet, etc., then later you can hang each block and knit the next block to it while always being able to see where you are. Just a thought.
Stitching blocks together as shown here is the hard way.
It's much easier to work an edge, like knitting. That way you only need to thread through 2 rings, and riveting is far more accessible.
I've only made chain mail from split ring washers, no ring production or riveting, but by working an edge it's much easier to get the needle nose pliers where you need them.
@@dougaltolan3017 Thanks for your comment! (And knitting is exactly what I was thinking of! I’ve done some off and on, but this, making chain mail, seems to lend itself closely to that. I know some folks like to reproduce things the same way it was originally made, and not just chain mail, woodworking, string instrument making, violin making comes to mind, using only the tools available at that time, no electricity, etc., but I would like to finish a project in my lifetime! Question… is putting the chain in a fire for the purpose of case hardening?)
@@backpages1 in this video the fire treatment is to reverse work hardening. If you've ever worked silver, it's a similar thing. The metal is worked cold, but becomes brittle with working. The heat treatment makes it maleable (a bit) again.
Other people have asked if there is a post assembly heat treatment like case hardening. That, I don't know.
But the heat treatment here, and the subsequent working cannot be for hot working, so it must be anealing.
@@dougaltolan3017 Cool! Thanks!
Now THAT is old-school. I LOVE it
I've always wondered and couldnt have found a better video to answer. Brilliant video👍
Fantastic video, you guys rock! This really isn't as easy as you make it look. I'm getting better, slowly, and your videos are very helpful! :)
He's making it old school. I haven't done it in a while but when I did I used a long bolt of the diameter I wanted the links to be. Cut off the head and cut a short slot in the other end. Chuck the steel bolt into a drill then feed the wire through two pieces of wood held together in a vice (for tension). Once you have a bunch of these wire springs made use some good cutters to cut them into rings. Braid the links into chainmail. I never bothered to weld the chainmail links and would occasionally have to replace missing links, but it was never a big deal. If you wanted to weld them I'd use a small welder to tack the links closed...easy peasy.
Unfassbar! Großen Respekt. Auch dass du die Ringe selber machst. Die Technik des Vernietens ist natürlich nochmal um einiges aufwändiger als die Ringe mit einer Zange auf und zu zu machen. Bravo!
Aswome video!!!
Incredible stuff and detail
Especially like those riveting pliers🤯
Thank you for sharing 🙏😁
I use a thin bladed die grinder to spit my rings and I found it works very well and is a huge time saver 😁
really beautiful work!
And The Best Part is When You Get Done You Will Have Proof That You Have Accomplished Something Amazing!!!
Cool. No words. I like it.
Amazing and TEDIOUS
My mom: What do you want for Christmas?
Me: Mother, I request of thee an anvil and the finest hammer in the land as a token of the birth of Christ
:D
That makes me appreciate those how make this kind of chain mail!
un trabajo magnifico me encanta que se mantenga el tradicionalismo de la herreria medieval
Always wondered how they made them rings, thanks
literal life saver
This was absolutely riveting to watch
Hhhh
Este es el mejor video qué he visto de cota de malla, me suscribo porque me haz ayudado mucho.
Impressive dexterity.
omg i didn’t know you had a youtube channel mate ! 👏🔥⚔️
that is the kewlest thing ive ever seen.
This video is riveting!
In my head that's always seemed like it would be a lot more complicated process but it's beautifully simple
Nice! I can't make it but I can weave it. I started learning this because I got bored during covid.
Dude... Nicely done... That's a hell of a lot of work to make a full shirt. 👍
Great video.
Seeing this process, definitely can be automated.
This video was riveting to watch
Thanks..good stuff
I suspect that, where it was an option like for the Romans, maille was made in a quasi-industrial process: I can imagine a couple of was an armourer with journeymen and apprentices etc, could set up a sort of assembly line to produce sheets of maille - some sort of rig could be set up to set rivets for instance...
Just came from the LOTR behind the scene, there were a handful of people that made all the chain mail. They did it for like 12 hrs a day for months straight. Hard to imagine
Ready for Vancouver downtown Eastside.
Fantastic
You are the king man haha You make me so happy i won't to learn this thanks You so much brotha 💪
Hey man just found your channel, very good tutorial and very beautiful mail!
Question for the creator, when you completed the process of creating the chain mail, were you finished? or did you have to temper or heat treat the armor afterwards? Just curious.
so, either I fill my summer with blood sweat and tears only to be rewarded with something I'll use once or twice with my bros OR I just buy it... but it's not about the money, it's about sending a message.
Gotta say, this was riveting! I'll let myself out!
I suppose you dont need any really stiff metal to make it since the rivets hold it together, cus I made a butted coif for a school project and I want to turn it into and a full face aventail for a gjermundbu style helmet I have.
I must do this
This work can drive you insane.
I made a butted chainmail coif. I cannot IMAGINE how long a full hauberk of riveted mail would take to make.
I can't even imagine the amount of people they needed to mass produce this in the medieval era for the armys given I'm sure not everyone had mail but still the process not only just to weave it all together but to size and shape it all properly jeez.
It is believed that they made up regular mail patches until they had an inventory. These would then be zipped together to make up shirts of any size, collars, voiders, and other mail articles. Even pot scrubbers maybe.,
Once the slow business of weaving the mail patches was done, final assembly was quick. "You need it Thursday? Done."
@@w.reidripley1968This is about how I did my shirts after my first one. I could make a front, back, collar, and sleeve. The collar would have expansions built in and I'd add ones to the sides to fit to as needed. Made production so much easier.
@@scarling9367 Yeah. I think I call that fashion of shoulder and neck hole a 'mantle top,' after the round kind of bishops-mantle. It's all going round and round in circles, putting in expansions as you go. Unusual in historical shirts, but not unheard-of; I suspect the Boris Godunov shirt in the Hermitage is one such.
Something I eventually learned was that giving a shirt a bit of a waist helps it not slide down through your cinch belt, no matter how vigorously you move.
I tend to build the body of the shirt pretty much as a single bloc, with places/suits included to insert expansion arrays for tailoring and for free arm mobility. This keeps me out of trouble with link rows mismatching -- or worse, gone spiral.
@@w.reidripley1968 I think I've read about the Bishop design. The shirts I made were block design with expansions in the back for arm mobility.
And yes, I also noticed that contractions and expansions around the belt line let it sit on the waist better.
I made a mail 30 years ago, with 12 mm keyrings. Can make one in a week. I have an original persian mail from around 1860, made out of 8 mm keyrings. They used modern technique for their time.
Can you do a short video of that little jig from the beginning
How it is constructed
is it held together through tension from the cords?
I made a good of chainmail once in my early years, like 20 or so. Had nothing to spend my time on so it ate up a week or something. I made it of aluminum wire and no flattening or riveting. It wasn’t meant for fighting but looking good, and it looked good. Wove 2 layers of rings throughout the whole thing. My brother wound up asking for it.
Imagine going through all this trouble and some bloke throws it into a bog to celebrate their victory
This is riveting
Stumbled on you by accident from a short. Wonderful craftsmanship: Q-was each chain loop individually riveted or just the termination loops?
Well you could rivet each loop, but sometimes you’d have a few whole rings in there. Easier to make and more structurally sound. Ironskin has a website where you can read all about this stuff
Hey mate your mail tongs look amazing! I'm trying to tailor my mail sleeves, any suggestions or advice?
Yes, do it with a build in bend. www.ironskin.com/making-sleeves-for-mail-armor/
@@Ironskin What he said. Hold up a proper sleeve of mail and it looks a lot like a sock with a heel to it.
NOT just a tube. Taper down from elbow to wrist, which will be rather irregular and fiddly. Sleeves of mail are in open hang so the mail flows with the action of your shoulder and especially your elbow, which totally needs that extra slack.
The hang of the sleeves is in contrast with the mail on the body, which rides in closed hang. Fits itself to you.
I should give this another go. I tried making riveted maille 20 years ago when I was in high school but stopped after getting a roughly 7x7 cm piece and wasted a lot of rings by not having a good normalizing process. Just stuck with butted rings from there on.
Just a quick question, how did medieval smiths forge metal into wires in the first place? Love the work, keep it up.
Edit: also I can see these rings got flattened at some point after 3:33, did you just whack them flat with a hammer or press them? Would love to know.
I know that one method of making wire is to draw metal stock through gauged holes, smaller and smaller, until it's the gauge desired. That works with copper and gold. I don't know if that's how steel is done.
What Charles Coslor described also works for iron-wire and has been used in history. It is forged into a rod and then pulled through ever-smaller holes in a plate.
Yes, I hit the rings directly with a hammer to flatten them. Alternatively, you can whack a rod resting on the ring. In the video I show both ways.
@@Ironskin The big modern difference is that the ancient way ran the drawn wire back and forth between two stout reels, passing through a hardened steel draw plate between them.
The modern method runs the wire unidirectionally through a lengthy series of die stations along the wire path. The process is pretty much round rod stock into one end and finished wire out the other; coil and ship out... to Boston...
Metal dies like they do now just on a much smaller scale
I'm glad industrial age came so we can easily automate this process
That's how they get shark mail/butchers' mail.
Though the stainless steel resultant product is so fine it looks more like heavy silvery gray cloth rather than a war-knitting.
For everyone talking about how expensive maille used to be, it is an expensive process now but was pretty standard in the later medieval era. It took a while to make, but labor wasn’t super expensive. Most people back then worked their asses off in every field of work, but you don’t see outrageous prices on meat, clothes, et cetera.
Здорово! Большое спасибо!
Hi Ironskin, Can I use some of your shots for a short item about chain mail for a Dutch TV show? Thanks, Hein
Hi Hein. Sorry for the late reply. Please contact me by mail via basti[at]ironskin.com
My first mail shirt I made of 14g galvanized steel wire I bought at home depot I used a 3/16" steel rod to make my coils and cut them using a 6" diagonal cutter broke one and had to finish with another set. My shirt ended up weighing over 25 lbs(11.3kg). After I hurt my back I decided to make a new one but I used aluminum rings precoiled and saw cut Still came out to over 7lbs(3.2kg). I made a third shirt this time out of scales made of plastic it came out to just 5lbs(2.3kg). I want to try my hand at riveted mail too even though I know I'd never be able to wear it. I wear a 4xl shirt and all my mail shirts come to about mid thigh in length.
Made two unriveted chainmails and that was a long process. I can't imagine this especially without the tools...
Very cool :)
If I ever get isekai'd this knowledge may pay off.
Amazing skills. Thankyou, it gives me appreciation to see how chainmail is made ! Awesome skills 🥳🕺
Thank you for this video!
Sir, please make a video of riveted six-in-one weave, if you're so inclined; one day I would like to craft it myself. I'm not sure how expansions and contractions would be done with the 6-1 pattern.
Thanks for the video, I've just started blacksmithing and would love to try this at one point, can I ask what kind of wire and size (thickness ) ect do you use for this?
Hi, this is 1.4mm wire worked into rings with 8mm inner diameter.
So the rod you used for this was 8mm round? Sorry if that's a silly question!
@@user-hh6eo8fj2q The rod that they used to shape the wire was 8mm in diameter, or 4mm in radius, yes.
@@user-hh6eo8fj2q It's an essential question. You got this. I like to use two rods, one rather thicker than the other for initial and finalized overlapped diameter, ready to flatten with a hammer stroke. A hammer of four pounds' weight is about optimal for the job -- fewer hits per link.
Question: how much faster dnd stronger would the build be if you point weld shut the rings I stead of river?
Tetanus has never looked so good
Im wondering if welded chain mail would be easier to make or if it would be stronger.
The other thing i wonder about is why i never see anyone hardening it.
I'm imagining someone spending hundreds of hours making chainmail armor, only to die within 15 seconds of their first fight by someone caving their head in with a hammer.