Does WITCHER LEATHER Armor work?
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2023
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A shorter video today but instead of scrapping the making of this spaulder, I thought we could take a look at how effective it actually is. I hope this video is a good baseline to get started on the Ultimate Viking Armor series. A set of !NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE! armor that is tied together by the norse aesthetic. Sort of what a fantasy vikinger would be wearing after a lifetime of traveling the world and collecting different armor pieces.
This set is meant to be my introduction into armoring.
Hardening Article: / a-comparative-study-of...
Music by Epidemic Sound - Zábava
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how did you do make?
Do you have a video showing how it's made?
You're using LARP butted mail. Historical mail is rivetted...makes a huge difference.
butted mail =/= chain mail
wax stops leather getting wet & soft, even if you boil, steam it ext you should oil it & wax after so it doesn't perish or take on moisture & soften
also if you place leather in front of the maille it helps to reduce the maille paradox by trapping the point a bit before it finds the middle of a ring helping protect it from point impact
celts used to have hardened leather outer with some nice patterning then scale or chain layer then hardened leather then felt padding then backing cloth for their byrnies. you needed a warhammer/pick/shillelagh/leaf spear to do any damage to chest then you where probably aiming to break a rib rather than penetrate armour
ps that sword looks like a danger to you having children :P make sure the tips dont touch :P
@@brokeandtired some was some was wedge welded some was twisted most Japanese 4 in 1 was butted or twisted at least on the smaller rings because they where to small to rivet really and where often more a peice of wire than a ring, double twisted
it depends on mail patern ext your using time period your speaking of and area as to what was 'historical' most areas went through a period of butted or twisted wire mail some because of patterns they used never changed it because it was srong enough using those patterns (japanese 4 in 1 3 in 1 ext dosen have the mail paradox of only being as strong as weakest ring against point impact because of how its arranged points going between 4 large rings and 4 smaller rings/wires each time (the large rings stick out at 90* to chest so piercing blows hit the edge of a ring then go between 4 rings rater than being directed into middle of a ring like with european 4 in 1)
and having made some maile i can say that some fiddely areas under arm and such probably wernt particularly well riveted in most armour before we had nifty little hand pliers ive tried it with a bolt in ground and a hammer & punch & its almost impossible to put rivets into some areas & theirs not a lot of evidence of wide spread riveting pliers its mostly hammers and less mechanical options
Assuming that witcher armor was design to protect against strikes of claws and teeth, while being flexible and allow mobility. It's a pretty good armor.
It is also fairly stealthy, becaues the chainmail is pulled tight on the leather, so the mail chains won't move together and make any noise.
@@SanchoPancho979 you an armorer?
@@SanchoPancho979damn bro woke up and chose violence
@@SanchoPancho979 butted mail is not "nothing". It's not as good as riveted but that's like saying armored cars are useless because tanks have thicker armor.
@@SanchoPancho979 It's not completely useless. It would protect you against cuts, fact. It could, or would take damage afterwards, and? Would an ancient soldier, or samurai rather lose their arm or a few iron or steel links? Think about that for a moment. In regards to fantasy crap, or whatever, I'm not referring to that. It's just that you're objectively wrong. Obviously butted mail would be easier to make if you don't have a workshop or as many tools. It's likely that the first mail (celtic, roman or etc) was not riveted. In an actual battle not every hit would be "haymaker" style, super telegraphed full force hits with two handed weapons, actually such weapons were not even common at the time, and if you did any research, you'd find that it's still highly effective vs swords, and again at the very least it would prevent amputation and mutilation even against weapons that would pierce it.
there is a recipe used by Todd from Todd's Workshop to increase the strenght of kite shields that is historically accurate, with the recipe being on a medieval manuscript, and one that uses an specific kind of leather but also uses animal glue and crushed crystals between layers and the results were kind of absurd. That might be more than enought to protect someone combined with the chainmail.
Chainmail goes under full plate but you have padding under the chain.
I rather have leather plated chainmail. Lowers the wight of armor by a little and get a size bigger full plate saves on weight why use padding.
I have seen that video, I don't think you would need to go as far as 2 layers with crushed glass and iron filings to have the glue prepared leather work for this scenario.
@@seanrea550 yup, probably with the two layers with glue would me more than enought but the recipe includes also that.
@@seanrea550 It is not the glass and iron, it is the hardened in animal protein leather. That is how leather armor was made in general. And we know there were leather lamellated armor. Hardened leather is extremely hard, but brittle, so in shields they used wooden base to give it flexibility. In armor they probably used leather or some soft metal like brass or copper. The Witcher armor could actually work.
Manuscript not manuscrite.
So, basically Geralt's armor would work pretty well for what he needed. CD Projekt really did an excelent job with The Witcher 3
Im not sure that it was intentional. Like castle at kear moren. It was historically accurate but without enough thicc walls and other stuff that devs werent familiar
Considering how much research they did (or at least must have done) for creating the medieval world they did, I wouldn't be surprised. Been going through a new playthrough a d I didn't realize JUST how grounded and historically inspired they actually got. I mean, I always loved Witcher 2 and 3's art styles for the more grounded depiction of weapons and armor (usually saving the more out there designs for things like Witcher armor or the Wild Hunt) and even then they aren't that crazy.
Well, the Wild Hunt's armor is, but that armor is just badass because of how crazy it is compared the cool realistic/historical armor.
Nah, it's actually kinda terrible. Plate would be far more effective, because blows and cuts can actually slide off while mail catches everything. And that mail leather thing would even take more work and weight more than a comparable piece of plate armor.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei Shaped metal plates are harder to create and repair. It takes a skilled blacksmith to do it. That also makes them more expensive. Whether iron or steel, it rusts, and unlike maille, it isn't self cleaning. It's noisier and retains heat far longer. A bent or dented plate can catch on ones next to it, meaning loss of articulation and hindered body movement, so you would somehow have to discard the piece until after the battle, meaning no protection... definitely not a good thing in the middle of a fight. Leather would be fairly common material, with several other everyday uses. So once tanned and prepared for those, it's more easily made in to armour than steel. Maille would be relatively easy to maintain, and in fact, having your opponents blade not slide off can be beneficial in several circumstances. But all armours are a series of compromises.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei Nope, you're wrong. Plate would be a terrible choice for a witcher. Why? Well, that's very simple. A witcher isn't a knight. He doesn't just put on armor right before a battle and then wears it for a very limited amount of time, he wears it for months and chances are he might only take it off after settling for the winter at Kaer Morhen. Would you like to wear full plate for 9 months straight? 9 months when you're constantly on the move?
Even besides that, a witcher needs to be fast and agile. Something that full plate would very much hinder. And while full plate may be nice against human oponents or smaller, weaker monsters, it sure as hell won't save you from a griffin or a golem.
So, in the end, a witcher wants armor that, while offering some decent protection, allows him to remain fully mobile, and that he can wear all the time without ever taking it off. So most certainly not full plate.
i think doing armoring is a really good way to set yourself apart from most other smiths on youtube! it seems to be a very unexplored niche
Especially doing some damascus pieces could be really cool
Many fantastic and real sword schemes were put to the test, almost never armor.
@@NjordArtisan pattern welded armour O.O
I'm poaching the idea (fear not, my powerhammer is broken beyond repair so it's gonna stay on the whiteboard for the next decade)
Shadiversity covers both armor and weapons, as well as fortifications and siege weaponry. He covers historical and fantasy. He kind of does a whole Medieval Combat thing
@@chrismanuel9768 yeah he covers it but his channel isn't about making armor
The chainmail you used has a very large ring diameter, aside from beeing butted and not rivited or riveted and solid rings, so it froms a rather loose mesh compared to historical examples. Beeing fantasy armor it does kot have to adhere to that ofc. They made it tight for a reason and that was to get better protection so youd have better results with that
I also just used some soft zinc coated fence wire. I want to buy some spring steel wire and actually harden it in the future to make the most out of butted maille. But riveted just takes waaay too long and since I don't have to trust my life with it I'd rather save the time 😁
@@marianomaimone8870 Thanks! I'll give it a try
@@NjordArtisan that said I could see both the 4 in 1 and 6 in 1 both been used at the same time depending on how much money someone have.
as I presume the 6 in 1 is a lot more expensive then a 4 in 1 (for a full suit of armor).
that said I know there been some argument about lether armor been ether a overlay for other armor (be it chain or padded)
or as a under armor (chain atop of leather as seen here).
@@NjordArtisan you need to at least do some comparative tests on small samples of closed links and butted links with calibrated forces, otherwise you've got no basis for what would be produced in a low-labor cost economy.
@@NjordArtisan hardening the wire would be really interesting to see, though its worth mentioning that there is not a lot of evidence for hardened mail historically at least in europe for the majority of the medieval period, you do see some plate armour get hardened near the tail end of the period. Love the video, the tests with the leather were very interesting and as other people said I would love to see you incorporate Todd's Workshop's glue boiled leather in the future, there could be even further to go in increasing durability.
I believe somewhere in witcher lore the armor also has silver wire weaved in as well for added defense against monsters
I'd believe it. In the books a frankly zany number of Witcher tools were laced with silver in some way.
@@Tenchigumi On the other hand, Geralt was buying new jacket at the Novigradian market at normal shop in books. Only his silver sword and amulet seems to be special, rest of his equipment is fairly standard, although of good quality.
@@Necris94 in world where monster which vulnerable to silver really exist, i assume there are a lot of silver laced gear.
There's also the fact that Geralt's armor really isn't meant to stop steel blades, anyways. It's meant to protect against claws and teeth and the like.
Yes and an armor is not made to transform you as a tank. It's made to let you fight freely and protect you in case of a failure to counter or dodge. A witcher is not a guy who gets constantly hit because he can't fight properly. The art of sword fight is to avoid to get hit and try to hit your oponent, it's not a turn based combat where two idiots hit eachother until one armor fails and the guy gets killed.
@@kukipett with the exception of plate armour, that turns you into a medieval version of a tank, you are basically immune to any bladed weapon (except for the gaps ofcourse)
But i would argue that it would be completely useless as a witcher, monsters don't use pollaxes and they have no cavalry charges lol. but it would be loud as hell to move in it, vision and hearing suffers heavily aswell. And if you are facing a bigger monster like a gollem or something of that size it's useless, it'll only slow you down an make you more immobile. don't get me wrong, plate is quite mobile if made well but with impaired vision+hearing plus the weight and the rigidness makes it useless in that situation since a bigger monster could easily crush it, while making it harder for you to dodge and more fatigueing to move around.
So i would argue that a perfect armour for a witcher is a good gambeson with maybe boiled leather/mail reinforcements just like tha armour Geralt wears. A drowner can't bite or claw through it, and anything bigger then that will just crush you either way.
Also you are right on the point that armour is actually meant to make you more "survivable" not to make you immortal.
@@krisania96 Yes of course plate armor makes you really protected but also very heavy and with a bad vision and hearing.
It's ok for a knight in battle on a horse or on foot but you can't wear this all the time. And worse you will need a squire to help to put it on and a cart to carry it around!
It's the same today with armor vest, i have a kevlar armor vest with additional ceramic plates and it's quite heavy, around 15 kg and if i put the additional hardened steel plates it weights about 30 kg. You can't go very far with this and worse it's really hot in it. It gives you protection against rifle rounds but try to run 100 meters with it and you will fall on your knees! 😁
@@kukipett Plate armor isn't that heavy. It's no heavier then a modern soldier with a backpack full of sand. As for hearing, I don't see why it would limit hearing anymore then having a hoody on your head, which would actually be worse. Limited vision is also easy enough to adjust too. Plate armored soldiers fight side by side so anything on the flank is likely covered by another. The role of a plate armored soldier is to advance and focus on what's in front.
@@Veldazandtea I had the opportunity to wear a plate armor helmet and well it was like putting a bucket on your head. You hearing is bad as the sound tend to resonate in it and the vision is almost nothing through a little slit. I wear motorcycle helmet quite often and it's absolutely not the same.
One more thing to point out, you see one of the points of armor isn't necessarily to completely arrest all damage it's also meant to reduce damage you would get, in other words yeah the points of the dagger penetrated the leather however it did not penetrate all the way through and instead left a very shallow cut so if it means the difference between having maybe quarter of an inch of a of a blade tip or even even a little bit more than that versus having an entire blade plunged into the arm I think the little pokey tip would be a little bit more favorable
Not really. Armor was meant to stop attack's that you could neither dodge or parry. In some cases like some of the later period the Japanese Kote, the armour was meant to be used to take the shot and completely nullify it much like a buckler would . Any injury in a fight is a fatal one. even the smallest cut makes you slow down and can bleed you out. Your aim is to receive zero damage and have armor that works to reinforce where you are weakest at defense. Mobility and strategic reinforcement is key to a good armor.
@@talyn3932 Armor was certainly meant to try and stop attacks, but in no way was it ever considered fool-proof. Also, if "kote" is your definition of an armor that would completely nullify an attack, your basis is very much broken.
No, 1/4 inch of a tip penetrating your mail or skin will not hinder you at all. Indeed, you likely would not even notice you were cut at all. Blades have a nasty tendency to effortlessly slip through skin, leaving little residual trauma. Very effective if they hit something vital, but stopping power they do not have on flesh alone. Additionally, armor isn't even meant to reinforce where your defenses are weak.
Armor has one goal - reduce injury to yourself.
A butted mail leather plate that stopped the dagger 95% effectively will keep you alive. Stoic Rum's point remains.
Funnily, a kote sleeve is some of the worst armor for expecting to take a hit. It will likely keep you alive, but you will still break your arm.
@@talyn3932 Rarely will any warrior "take the shot", even if your armour is *supposed* to be proof against something it can still fail. Your idea of how armour works seems very much based on modern martial arts, where the objective is to avoid getting hurt.
In reality soldiers *do* get hurt, the armour is there first of all to guard against non-fatal wounds, and secondly to protect you enough to allow you to keep fighting. If "the smallest cut" was fatal in a fight then historical battles would not have lasted longer than 20 minutes, instead of all day. Just look at how much modern boxers get hurt during a 12-round bout and you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about.
Also, Japanese Samurai were expected to deliver a killing blow to their enemy even when fatally wounded themselves, so they're not a good example of the absolute effectiveness of armour.
I think the performance water hardened over boiled is similar to half tanned leather. It's a technique where a thicker piece of leather is left in the tanning solution long enough for several millimeters of the outside to tan, but there is an inner layer of rawhide. It's pretty hard to find nowadays unless you know a tanner. Your solution seems like a good compromise.
digging into it, tanning all the way through is really vital. Rawhide is not very durable when used as armor. The moisture that was part of the leather is a vital part of the molecular structure that makes the leather tough, and when it dries out the leather becomes brittle. Tanning replaces the moisture with other molecules to allow the leather to be tough and flexible without being as vulnerable to drying. What I'd suggest though is that since leather has a grain like wood, use a thinner but still tough leather like elk and criss-cross the grain while using glue-hardened leather and pressing the layers together to bond them. The main grain is from the spine down the flanks, and the area near the spine is the thickest.
@j.f.fisher5318 According to my friend who studied arms and armor in Hungary, half tawed leather was definitely a thing in Eastern European regions. The tanned surfaces protected the rawhide, similarly to the way lacquer did for some Asian armors. Also Tod at Tod Cutler has a video on using half tanned leather as a shield covering.
@@gozer87idk much about the topic half tanned leather was probably common because it’s quick to make? I’m just shooting in the dark, idk the real reason
personally i find geralts default armor in tw3 the most pleasing to look at armor and now knowing its quite functional is really cool
The faces in that ad were horrifying. I love it
Really cool they actually let me do this 🤣
@@NjordArtisan If you're familiar with Internet Historian, they will let you do a lot
@@goodguykonrad3701 yeah he was my inspiration with this. His gotta be one of the few ads I actually like watching 😄
@@NjordArtisan
Shadivesity
does good armor videos. As well they are trying to make a dragon Slayer sword.
might be a good
reference.
thank ya for reading.
Tod (Tod's workshop) is doing some cool tests with glue hardened leather.
He has also tested out a weird wine and salt mix that made the leather hard enough to use as a makeshift axe to cut a 2x4.
Yeah I’ve seen those! Crazy how sturdy leather can get 😄
Guess I have to make some tests with gelatine in the future 😄
I really like this shorter video. I wouldnt mind watching more of these short tests of differen techniques.
That's great to hear!
Absolutely gorgeous leatherwork and immaculate chainmail, very cool!
Thanks!
Riveted mail would be even better
5:16 actually, you can get them tighter by making the diameter of the rings smaller (like 6mm) you can also try and flatten the rings and makes it harder for pointy things to go further (coz the available space in between the rings are now smaller)
Originaly it was also riveted or soldered, but i fully understand why he did not wanted to do that with each single ring... ha ha
But a friend of my in the swedish armor making society did actualt make a head set of riveted and flatened rings, he asid it was a noticable differense in durability, especialy ower time if the hits wher erepated ower and ower, the folded rings did not last very long, but the riveted oneds did take a lot of force to break.
There's also the different in density. 4-in-1 versus 6-in-1, etc., refers to how many rings connect to one single central ring.
@@TemenosL 4 in 1 is more flexible and far easier and faster to do
6 in 1 is more stif and harder to weave and rivit
6 in 1 was only used by the vulnerable neck area in history
@@steyn1775 There are higher "-to-one" counts, and it's not just about vulnerable areas, but where you can afford to have less movement as well.
@@TemenosL and if it's sectioned in the manner that geralt's armor is, movement restriction of tighter mail isn't a concern
I am very glad I decided to stay up a bit late tonight. Very interesting and informative! I had no idea that simply boiling leather could make it this cut resistant.
Yeah it's crazy. And the leather is only boiled for 30 seconds
@@NjordArtisan 30 seconds is that all???
Yeah, crazy, right? 10 minute soak in lukewarm water and then 30 seconds in boiling water
You really should not do it any longer. The longer you boil it, the more brittle it gets.
@@SandraOrtmann1976 Last week I did some tests with 15s, 30s, 45s and 60s and 30s really seems to be the sweet spot
To harden leather you should boil it in animal glue (but don't get the glue to actually boil, it should just steam). Tods workshop made a good video on the topic :)
Yup haven't seen that video but was looking to see if someone said this or oil boiling.
Real leather armor used by nomads was made like lamellar; lots of small pieces which could be cut out and new ones stitched in when they were damaged. Fantasy leather tends to be more like clothing which is made out of large pieces of leather.
Lamellar was normally made from wood (especially teak) rather than leather.
Leather was an expensive and relatively scarse commodity that was mostly used for shoes, belts, strapping, horse saddles etc...
Wooden armor was widespread but notoriously inferior to metal armors like chainmail hence it is synonymous with "useless."
Looks nice in fantasy armor though.
@@stevebuckley7788I would love to have a reference for that, especially the part where you said that people would have made armour out of teak wood...
@@stevebuckley7788 Lamellar was made from all kinds of things, including metal.
@@eternal7912 yes but generally wood was used not leather. Leather was an expensive commodity and mostly used for things like belts, strapping etc...
I did some experiments using raw hide as armour material and learned the following.
1- Raw hide is a bastard to dry evenly without shrinking and curling. It can dry too fast and twist back on itself and it can dry too slow and it can do both at the same time.
2- Raw hide in proper thickness acts like plastic and can repel some attacks and like plastic it can deform from a hit without breaking.
3- You can dye raw hide using coffee if you mix it into water and leave the hide in it over night. You also need to soak the hide to be able to make it soft so do both together.
4- It'll take a lot more work to be as pretty as leather armour.
Thanks for sharing! I've read that raw hide might be more practical as armor and was wondering how working on it compares to tanned leather. Sounds like a pain in the butt 😄
great video and i like how your branching into short form content! it would be nice if you could post both these mythbuster style content along side the longer build videos, love watching a build come together personally
That's great to hear! I'll do both just like you said 👌
Im sad this doesnt have enough views, because man this video is AMAZING. The strenht of the leather armor you made would be usefull even in the medieval times, since the only thing you used to make the leather hard was boiling in water and chain mail.
Thanks a lot!!
To be fair, at 05:01 that dagger only *just barely* poked its way through to burst the balloon. It would surely hurt if there was no gambeson underneath, but I'm not so sure it would be incapacitating, especially considering that in a real fight, your opponent is full of adrenaline and moving around.
Tod Cutler recently did a video about lesther armor on his channel, you may want to give that a look. But basically he soaked his leather in gelatin/glue to harden it. Had some pretty good results that way.
This is super-cool! Looks like you spent a ton of time on it too. I'd love to see an actual process making-of for the spaulder (want to make my own set of armor at some point, no idea where to start). Really fascinating. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks! I’ll do the other shoulder next, maybe that’ll be interesting for you 👍🏻
I know nothing about armour in real life, but this is really cool! Good to know that maybe the actual Witcher armour would be practical for fighting monsters, which is what they mainly do. After all, we know that the armour isn't intended to protect from pitchforks :P
Great stuff as always! It's nice to see you branch out to make things other than knives/swords like some channels do.
Thanks! I’m really happy to see how many people like the armoring route. I think there’s some cool videos that can be done
@@NjordArtisan Definitely! Looking forward to the next one 😁👍🏽
@@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG Saturday 🤙🤫
I made leather armor for 20 years, and “yes” it used wax. However, the thick, tanned “sole leather” pieces were Boiled in a 50/50 mixture of beeswax and pure carnuba wax. After ~5 minutes in the hot wax, I removed the piece with tongs (and wearing heavy, wet leather shop gloves) quickly wiped off excess surface wax, formed it to the desired shape and set it under cold running water or an ice/water bath. Once cool, I sewed or riveted the armor together. It works exceptionally well, making full sets of armor weighing half that of metal.
Two safety warnings: 1. Use a very large high side wall roasting pan you don’t ever plan on using again for any other purpose. Ditto for the towels, kitchen tongs, etc. This wax mixture cannot be totally removed from any surface except glass. 2. As boiling hot wax is an extreme fire hazard, put a layer of heavy duty foil over the grates of your propane BBQ grill and set the grill 30+ feet from your house and anything else you don’t want to lose. Make sure the BBQ lid can be closed with the pan on the rack. (I only once spilled enough wax to allow a fire to begin in the pan… I quickly shut the lid and turned off the propane regulator; the fire went out in seconds but cleaning the grill was a bitch, even with all visible wax removed the burnt carnuba/bees wax smell remained. I solved it by buying a new grill and keeping the old one for armor making.
Note: do all edge trimming/rounding, hole punching, and dyeing BEFORE boiling the leather. I once experimented with thick rawhide and it was a disaster… rawhide cooks, warps, and shrinks in hot wax. Final note: be CAREFUL when putting pieces into or out of the wax, I have several small round scars on my forearms to remind me of times when I failed to be as cautious as I should have been.
The tighter chain mail is way stronger than I thought, almost impenetrable , even leather hardened the right way can block dagger stabs , chain mail was blocking pole arm jabs also which is crazy, sword slashes and axe slashes no problem .
You are honestly almost just as tanky as a plated knight with probably a little more mobility .
Very interesting findings. Combining the two forms of leather with different properties was a great idea. One thing to note, this armor would actually be even more effective with riveted mail, which was generally what was used.
i was so scared the whip sword would go into your shin then
I tested the reach beforehand, but it's still scary 😅
Looks great too, but you've shown how usable that armor would be, especially with the changes you made with the boiled leather on inside layer with the 6in1 on top. Great stress test - please share more of this type of video!
I'm currently making some chainmail now - but a whole shirt with 8in1 larger rings (may make it too heavy though) to make it look better. Looks great and am done with half - but this video shows a very nice and durable usable armor with Leather and Chain - gives me some great ideas for what I want for spaulders - thanks much.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you liked it! I actually made a huge mistake with the boiled leather. I let it cure for a day before testing and it was pretty hard but when I cleaned up some remnants of the boiled leather a week later those pieces felt like stone, they were so stiff. I can't wait to make some more test with this 🙌
And good luck with the maille shirt. It takes some serious patience to do that 👍
This was amazing man! informative and entertaining!
Glad you enjoyed it!
That whip sword does actually have a real world equivalent. Look up "Urumi" if you're curious, but they are basically a piece of sharpened flexible metal that can be equally deadly to the holder as the target. Most terrifyingly they would often be fashioned like a bull whip (many blades) and dual wielded, so that to face someone using them would be like facing a whirling tornado of death.
damn I didn't know they were a thing. Searched it up and i remember seeing one in Berserk and thinking "yep thats one of the crazier fantasy blades i've seen"
@@nathangraham4551And since it featured in Berserk, it just HAD to pop up in a Miyazaki game, albeit in a much more magical fashion as a liquid metal whip sword in Elden Ring.
I could see a nobleman's bodyguards using modular composite leather armor segments:
If an armor piece gets damaged, you can replace it with another prefabricated piece when repairs are needed.
The manufacturing process would be a bit faster than full suits of chainmail, as you're making use of small sections of chainmail rather than a full suit due to the process being spread out between different manufacturers.
I'd imagine wearing composite plates would be a lot more comfortable temperature-wise, compared to the full chainmail and padding outfit. (Though they'd still reasonably have a chainshirt underneath at least.)
In a fantasy setting, having leather from minotaur or drakes could probably increase the demand of leather armor, depending on how receptive the leather is to magical enchantments.
2:03
Shrapnel from grenades can fly as far as 200 meters. Typical guaranteed wounding range is much smaller, around 15-30 meters, and a lethal radius of 5-10 meters, but one still does well to throw them from cover, and throw them with all due enthusiasm.
Would love to see a vid on how to make this armor, its not boring its informative! 💪
Sadly it was a lot of bad angles and boring perspectives. I thought I'd do the video like this instead because during the rest of the set I can show the process a bit more interesting.
@@NjordArtisan the vid definitely was fantastic
The problem is how do you clean it.. mail is cleaned by rolling in a bag of sand.. so if attached permanently then thats an issue.. you could oil dip it but this only lasts a while in field use.. you could case harden it but historically this needed to be done every so often to preserve the strength... still nothing from stopping someone using it.. mail was sold in sections to armourers who would make it into sets.. so you could easily have hired someone to make it.. and if its only for one campaign.. after which it will be completely rebuilt then not such an issue.. also provides better protection against certain attacks..
I'm sorry you clean your Armor? Blood for the blood good and dirt for the mudcrabs!
As someone who found you for the whip sword I appreciate the ending lol. Subbed this time and look forward to more, would love to see Shad react to the armor idea.
Awesome, thank you!
Hopefully in the future though, right now it’s more of a concept than a functional piece 😄
@@NjordArtisan hey the first step is the hardest? Lol
What’s nice about chainmail on leather is it makes the weight easier to distribute and give structure to.
Thank you for making a tolerable ad that was actually worth my time to watch and didn't make me want to throw up! Hardly anyone does that, even the major players on youtube.
That’s great to hear! It‘s really cool they gave me so much freedom with the ad 😄
The maille on top would make the pieces about as effective as pieces of Lorica Hamata. That being the Roman Chainmail.
But being attached to pre-defined pieces of leather means it's effectively as flexible as plate spaulders.
And maille is labour intensive to make and quite heavy for the amount of protection it gives.
When you're making spaulders and other solid pieces, it's better to use plate, while maille works better for covering gaps, due to it's flexibility, so a good under-armour.
I really loved these tests! I really want to make a set of chainmail-covered armor now!
That’s great to hear! Actually today I cleaned up the remaining pieces from that day and the boiled leather gets a lot stronger. Seems like I have to redo those test after it cured for some days
Two layers of strengthened leather with a layer of taut chainmail overtop is actually a really effective design. Cool!
Ring Mail, was an armour type like this... save an outer layer too. A face of mail, thin mail, over a quilted linen or wool, or buff leather, but then also covered with an outer layer. No extant examples exist, and we do not know much about its construction, but we know that loosely is what it was, and we know it was used, especially recommended for archers and skirmishers using hit and run tactics, as we both a small few inventory lists which seem to list it, and at least one treatises in which it is said to be the armour such units aforementioned should use.
Additionally we know that boiling methods existed to make some very very strong, resistant, armour. Different grades of Cuir Bouilli, as it was known, made for potentially some very good armour, though it was oft subjected to much harder use, and seen as something of a disposable tool, compared to say, pack packs, or belt pouches, which is why very little exists, and it was not as common as those types of use of the material either, which is why imagery, in paintings, and sculptures and tapestries and illuminations is not as common as for other uses for cui bouilli or other forms of armour.
So if you are combining cui bouilli and ring mail, you are going to have some rather nice armour. It might not be as light as either, and perhaps not as agile, but it will work just fine, at least against most stabbing and cutting weapons, likely give you some reasonable protection against force weapons too, like hand axes, maxes and war hammers.
But it IS a light armour, and whilst it would be adequate for the aforementioned attacks, especially if you were light infantry, hit and run mounted skirmishers, or archers with a secondary clean up role.... pole weapons, heavy bows and heavy cross bows, and definitely lances at charge, would make very short work of it.
This is all historically known, though... so yeah, that armour, whilst looking a little fantasy.... is rooted in historical reality.
Did anyone in the medieval period ever ACTUALLY sew ring mail OVER cuir bouilli? Well, doesnt really seem like if they did it was anything worth a chronicler noting... but in terms of being protective, there's no arguing it would work.
This is a great video please do more armour stuff !
Quite the interesting video. Good luck with the channel!
Cultures who used leather armor (like the Mongols), to my knowledge, used way tougher leather (rhinoceros hide) for their armor, rather than cow, but I'd go for a substitute leather these days!
Either way this is cool, but it still seems regular (cow?) leather vs. gambeson leaves gambeson ahead on all fronts for armor. But it's still great to see the experimentation!
Actual historical leather armor tended to also be infused with animal glue into thick multilayered plates
Nice Video! Do you have a pattern/template of these spaulder or did you just eye balled it?
Thanks! Yeah I just eyeballed them. If I were to make them again I would make them slightly bigger though. I’ll try to make templates for future builds 👍🏻
I liked this immensely. Great work. Loved the testing. Would love to see a follow on video of how maneuverable the full suit is. Protection is one aspect of defense. Speed and maneuverability is another.
For example, look towards the early Americans armor in Iraq during the inception of the war vs the gear being issued now.
only thing I'd add is a test of the compound leather with the four-in-one, not entirely sure that it wasn't just the six-in-one carrying the leather, but at least the compound leather still took more pressure to pierce in the bare test.
How did you make the rings for the chainmail? I once tried making some, but gave up very quickly because painstakingly bending each one out of steel wire was taking forever
I created this second channel where I'm uploading short tutorials on how to do things from the video
That's actually me incase you're wondering 😁
You Wrap it thightly around a long cylinder shaped object and pull them off (it should Look kinda like a spring that is fully compressed) then Cut threw every loop, there you have your rings wich are allready open aswell for the next step✌️
The whole thing with fantasy armor is that they put aesthetics above function. Strangely, the NPCs in that game have good functional armor. I would wear just about any NPCs armor from the witcher 3 but there isn’t a single piece of armor he wears that I’d trust my life to.
My preferred armor is the bear's mastercrafted, it uses a padded gambeson beneath everything, a layer of chainmail over it, then shoulder, forearm braces and shin guards have steel plates over them.
Although I'd have preferred something like the berserker armor from berserk, extremely articulated plate armor would probably serve a witcher well.
actual mail, so rivited one will also significantly improve the stab resistance. in addition to actual layered padding underneath this should actually be kind of plausible. sense wise it brings nothing but looks though, as a plate spoulder would offer more protection with at least the same weight if not less. the big pro of mail is that its flexible you negate that with this type of construction. however iam courios how the final product will turn out.
Might want to remember such Armour is quarter inch thick normally multi layered with Mail on top used to bolster neck shoulders or lower leg and typically padded for comfort on the underside. Typically used by common man at arms been cheap easy to replace and readily available with Mail or Segmented Plates with Mail been less commonplace and only used to bolster protection in specific places of the body.
You're on the right track! The mail is to stop sharp edges, and leather to dampen the blow. You still need a better connection between the layers of lether though, as well as softer, preferably breathable padding underneath.
If you really wanted to get serious with this, welding or riveting the rings closed would be best, and better lether treatment recipes do exist, but this is already really good stuff if you wanted to do mock combat.
Another thing to not is you're using butted mail. Butted mail is weak to puncturing attacks because the wedge of the weapon forces the ring to open when thrust into it. If you were using rivetted mail, it would be a much different story, as the rings would be sealed and the wedge would have to actually break or deform the rings to get through rather than simply push through it.
Interesting vid. Have seen many videos which denigrate the Witcher armor precisely because it combines chain and leather and presumes it is combining the worst of both. Your vid shows it can be set to do the best of both without sacrificing flexibility. Well done.
..... That jump at the end signals that this dude almost gave himself a vasectomy.
These kinds of armors are actually really useful in a zombie apocalypse situation. You still do not want to fight a horde because even IF they cannot wound you in anyway, they can still suffocate you by piling on top of each other (or stampede), but in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation, wearing a layered armor increases your chances of preventing nasty scratches and bites.
Of course, you'll still need to dodge, take cover, apply CQC techniques (assuming you know how), and etc.
Great tests! Honestly I think it's a pretty genius design. The only way to reliably stop a heavy thrust from a heat-treated steel blade is with solid plate armor/ full cuirass (mail and padding can resist a little, but you're really rolling the dice there), and that's just not conducive to Geralt's lifestyle. No amount of armor can save him from the sheer size of the monsters he fights, so preserving his agility is more important than solid thrust resistance. This allows him to have the slash protection of chainmail without the floppiness of its weight making it difficult to run and change direction and tumble and whatever else. It keeps it all compact, secure, and intuitive. And it's probably easy enough to take off, since for most of his life Geralt travels alone.
Great video, lots of misconceptions about leather armor and you did great testing. Also, wear a cup next time you swing that fantasy flail sword. Had me sweating, haha.
Good call! 😄
thats a really cool showcase!
Just one thing to add: mail is supposed to move!
Imagine it like running through a door and hitting your head on the edge of the doorbeam. Your hat flies off, but you didn't suffer any abraision and it remained a glancing blow to you.
Putting mail on a stiff surface diminishes its capabilities! It makes the rupture of rings even more likely!
Thus, mail over gambesson is the better choice and it's cheaper and more protective against blunt force trauma. However, it sucks in terms of heat and getting soaked...
If you want leather armour, then put steel plates on top or use lamellars or scales. This is more protective and you can go with harder steal than you could with mail or plate armour!
Leather armour makes IMHO more sense for feet, hands, shins, and forearms. You want to keep your limbs light, they don't need as much protection, but it should still protect against a sword cut, a dog bite, and obviously falling and scraping...
This would work wonderfully for any setting where paying for leather and mail is cheaper than paying for articulated metal plates... which would be a lot of settings. You've even managed to show several degrees by which the quality vs. price question could be answered. At the low end, one layer of leather and 4-in-1 butted rings, at the high end two layers of leather and 6-in-1 riveted rings. I could also see it being used as a cheaper (and lighter) alternative to, or as auxiliary armor worn on top of, conventional chainmail.
It probably would have worked better with proper chainmail (riveted or forge welded, not merely butted) too, but this is really impressive! In setting, you could even use a fantastic beast hide that is even more durable, so really viable for the scenario I would think.
A few suggestions if you try a new version of this. Add a layer of cloth padding/gambeson underneath, and it would be even better. We don't have fantastic beasts, but we do have animals with more reistant hide than bovine leather. Particularly sharks and rays, and ofc crocodillians, which aren't too hard to find on the market for alright prices. Specially scraps, which are plenty good for testing and even an underlayer if you made a full set eventually.
As a historical reenactor of the early middle ages in Scandinavia or viking age if you'd like. I've made tons of maille, mail or even "chainmail" I noticed that the shoulder armor of gerald in the witcher 3. is even wrong. as you can clearly see that the mail rings aren't closed and in fact is costume armor.
and while you have many different kinds of mail armor, you've made E4in1 and E6in1. you never did make kingsmail or E8in2 or dubble mail. Either way it's not the layout that decides how "full" the mail is, but rather the AR or relationship between wire dimention and internal ring dimention. if you use 10mm ID with 2 mm of wire. you'll get an AR of 5. while plausible, it's pretty loose and about what I expect you've made, perhaps you used 1.5mm over 10, but whatever. if you use the same 2mm wire, with a 8mm ID, your mail is now AR of 4, wich is much stronger.
But any weapon test of mail armor, using butted mail is pretty much pointless. other than again proving that mail armor on it's own isn't useless, it's way less protective than with padding, gambason or even a leather backing.
if the ringmail was not only linked together but also sewn in with each ring actually being sewn to the leather it would actually reinforce the rings and reinforce the leather.
It would be an EXTREMELY troublesome thing to do... but since riveted rings were already made and were just as troublesome... you maybe doubling the effort required(and quite frankly not worth it) but noble armour may make it required.
It would also make the armour extremely quiet and stop the rings clanking anywhere near as much.
Cool idea! 👍🏻
That's actually a hilarious point you made about the wax finish. The enemy can maintain their blade and hack you down simultaenously 😂
This "boring" broke me 😂
Great video on the topic. My only concern is that the structure holding the balloon moved so much that it took away some of the force of the blows. With more resistance, the result could have been different.
Great point. I wanted something that has a little give, since the human body doesn’t stand like a brick wall. On the first hits before it fell over it was definitely too light but after bracing i felt it was pretty sturdy
7:32 Holy shit bro almost gave himself the fastest circumcision in history.
The biggest issue with leather armour is how much the leather would cost (in a fantasy/medieval setting). In medieval artwork I scarcely see leather used as clothing, maybe only for boots and belts. and it's an even rarer sight when it comes to armour. Maintenance of such armour is also problematic, as you noticed yourself. This is why the most common piece of armour was probably the gambeson (padded cloth armour). As for chainmail, I remember a video testing different weapons against different ways of making mail. Butted mail (the one you made) was by far the weakest, while riveted was far stronger and even held up against spears and other thrusting weapons. As such, a far better suit (in terms of price and effectiveness and ease of repair) would be a mail hauberk worn over a gambeson; the mail would protect against slashes and thrusts while the padded cloth would absorb (some of) the impact.
I've actually thought of making a jacket with a gambeson layer a chainmail layer and an outer layer so it looks like a normal jacket like leather denim or canvas and ad a waste belt to it to take weight off your shoulders and for the fambeson layer I thought of doing triple stitching to make it stronger along with the outer layer
Do it!
Thank you for this great video! Can you tell us where you get your leather, which kind it is and wich thickness it is?
I'm impressed at that butted 6 in 1. It makes me feel a lot more proud of the costume I'm making.
I clicked expecting to see some dude whacking the crap out of armor. Stayed for the incredible editing and very informative yet fun video.
You could dramatically improve the effectiveness of the chainmail if it were rivetted or welded instead of butted. Of course that would be way more work and much more expensive.
Yeah I’ll try that! Just recently bought some rings with rivets. I’m really not looking forward to putting those together 😄
Would this 2 layers of leather and double chainmail composite be lighter than just 1 armor plate though?
Since Geralt is wearing a gambeson (which is really resistant to piercing damage) I'd say that his armor really is perfectly suited for his job
Chainmaille is good against slashing and piercing but not really effective against blunt force trauma even with gambeson underneath. A solution would be to wear plate armor over it, but that would add a lot of weight too (and the vikings for example couldn't make plate armor). Therefore wearing properly hardened leather armor between your gambeson and chainmaille would have been a perfect option.
That actually preformed way better than expected
I’m just as surprised 😄
Why bother with chainmail fastened to leather when you can have chainmail over gambeson (padded jacket) and get same slash and stab protection plus extra blunt trauma protection for fraction of the cost, hustle free maintenance, option to wear them separately and lower weight? Which is exactly what happened historically :D
Would have loved to see shots of how far the dagger got in the tests
Nice to see someone use a sailmaker's glove outside of sailmaking. I thought I was the only one😂
Tod Cutler did a video recently about a very obscure document (in the sense that most people, even in the field, don't even seem to have heard of its contents) which has an actual *_recipe_* for what might had been one type of actual "boiled leather," which is important, as it is one that I had never heard referenced before, and while most other recipes suggest immersion in water or sometimes oil, this one actually involves *_animal glue_* and laminating it with ground glass, but the process would also introduce iron-tannin complexes from the use of ferrous pots (notably, there are references to how black boiled leather was superior, which is significant, because iron-tannin complexes are a very dark grey in colour, i.e. colloquially "black"). I am interested in watching people do more boiled leather tests.
Added bonus: boiled leather is very good at getting moulded, since the "boiling" (really just warming) makes it softer while wet.
Also: maille goes under *plates* but over *padding* - and padding also offered protection, it wasn't just for cushioning. Padding came in both leather and fabric, often a combination, but always involving fabric.
5:17 4-in-1 *_batted_* maille even; 6-in-1 *_riveted_* maille... yeah.
Never really tested crushing, which is the most common threat of that era. A mace can crush your bones and crack your skull without ever piercing the armor and in some cased even without serious damage either.
Using balloons like a penetration Indicator is a good idea, but you should also considering depth of it. The damage to the user itself would be minimal, about maybe 2-3 mm wound. Yeah, it would suck, but isn't nearly enough to kill a human, so i think that's a win.
When you test chainmail, you should use chanmail. Riveted, welded or a stamp-rivet mix. What you got there is not chainmail. That is LARP mail. You can't really test that for anything, except whether or not it looks like chainmail at a distance.
excellent you pointed out that when it comes to cut resistance for leather armor, you'd have to replace it after a few cuts. That's one of the main reason why leather armor is seldom used. leather is pretty pricey (in fact even up until the late medieval to renaissance period, a way to flex your wealth, is to have excessively long leather belts.) and there is just as an effective material that is both cheap and protective: cloth. Yes see that studded leather you see in fantasy games? yeah game designers just thought "hey knights slapped rivets on (presumably but it turned out to be wrong) leather armor, that should help! when in reality, there was a collection of plates riveted on to a thick piece of fabric.
if you wish to look in to this, search up "Brigandine" and "Coat of plates"
Bro you deserve more views 👍
Thanks! 🙌
This setup wasn't too unusual, but replace leather with gambeson. Chain mail over gambeson was historically a pretty decent protection, only second to hardened plate, at which point you could drop the shield and do some more damage with two-handed weapons.
This gives me a cool idea for a vambrace :3
Lets think...
This can be viable type of armor, if you can buy this type of leather very cheaply.
I see this as a type of armor for begining adventurers, but long and regular use of it can outcost a better armor.
Something like that 1984 (?) fragment where poor man buys shoes every season, but rich man can buy shoes that can last few seasons, so in effect a poor man spends on shoes more money than a rich man.
the level of detail 👏👏👏
It also might be important to note that even if it penetrates, if it doesnt go like an inch deep, its not going to be all that effective. Yah, having little nicks isnt going to be fun, but you need a significant amount of penitration for really significant damage.
Hardened leather under chain armor might help in spreading out the hit force over a wider area, but a horse-hair filled gambeson or something alike might be more efficient - just also warmer.
A leather/cloth/metal plate combination armor is brigandine armor, and its use made sense. So i think that witcher armor is kinda just a fancied-up fantasy version of that, optimized for looks and design.
Using double or triple layers of hardened core leather - using leather soaked in bone glue for shaping and binding - might result in even stiffer leather plates. But the process of making that will be smelly indeed. The inner leather layers will have to be roughened up for the glue to properly connect the leather layers. You might want to try that approach for more testing, however the right temperature and time for the leather to soak in the glue might turn out to be be very essential. This can be messed up and the product might easily end up brittle or deformed if done not right.
Leather parts together with bone glue can also be used for repairs.
A real "leather armor" would also require some sewed-on inner cloth lining to further protect the wearer and also help in reducing the sweatiness. That's a load of hard work for making one leather armor though.
This also does not take into account the padded armoring Geralt wears beneath, which may be a form of form-fitted gambeson or thickly quilted material, designed to at the very least provide resistance to the elements and against direct attacks from monsters. Moreover, his armor is layered, though it may not look as such on first blush. It should be noted that armor witchers use is crafted by smiths and leatherworkers of the highest quality, due to their need for elite-quality protection during their hunts. In-game, as part of their world, a strike from a griffin can sever a horse in two. A vampire can shred even the thickest armor like paper. Anything less than the highest quality would literally be a death sentence- even if it only saves their skin by a hair.
I would like to challenge the idea that waxed leather wouldn't help. I do a thing where I warm leather in my oven and rub melted beeswax on it, before putting it back into the oven and letting it seep into the pours. When the leather cools it becomes really hard, like plastic. I think that if you cured it like that it would be favorable. (I add mink oil to the beeswax to make it more supple as well. this wouldn't improve rigidity, though.)