Leather and Bone Armor - Not Just Fantasy!
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2018
- Non-metal armor in history came in a variety of different forms, most commonly fabric based, like gambesons for instance. Leather breastplates and vambraces ("bracers") are everywhere in movies and video games, generally presented inaccurately. There is limited evidence of leather and even bone armor though, and we'll take a look at it.
My videos about scale armor:
Practical aspects and historical overview - • What is Scale Armor? -...
Testing - • Scale Armor, Part 2 - ...
Tutankhamun's armor:
www.conservation-us.org/docs/...
About glue hardened Native American hide armor:
gestaseptentrionalis.blogspot....
Late medieval leather armor from the Netherlands:
www.archeologiedordrecht.nl/w...
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#Armor #Authentic #History
What do you mean, "stone is not organic"? I'll have you know there is plenty of good rock found on natural soil, completely free of pesticides, preservatives, and antibiotics! It's even gluten free.
Skal, I'd love a video about stone armors (organic or non-organic). Cheers.
I've heard they have genetically modified stone these days. Nothing is sacred.
Is coal a stone ? Cause coal can be organic... And sedimentary rocks can results of biogenic activity
I love all the archeological evidence to support your claim. It's clear that you have done quite a bit of research and I'm glad to have learned something.
Favorite piece of today's video, learning about the existence of the Native American's leather armor.
Is it free-range stone though?
Leather armor is the only dyeable armor without mods.
Hide, untreated skins can be dyed. Hence because most builds of armor that don't protect the butt cheeks could have an add on of baboon or mandrill cheeks
@@obligatecarnivore6774 he is talking about minecraft
@@obligatecarnivore6774 that's a /r/wooosh and a half.
@@chimichangas1432 I love it when jokes go whoosh. Except if it's my joke, but what are the odds of that right? I make the best jokes.
@@obligatecarnivore6774 that's a major R/wooooosh
Lightly armored means light on your feet.
SMART!
No lollygagging!
Whiterun Guard you were given two hands and you use both for your weapon. I can respect that.
@@God-Emperor_Elizabeth_the_2nd favor the bow eh i am a sword man myself
I work for Mogrul. You got a problem, you talk to him.
Need anything?
As far as evidence of historical leather armor goes, it's absolutely everywhere and it's so compelling that it's present in current usage.
Leather work gear.
Gloves, boots, aprons, chaps, sleeves, etc. We use leather because we know it's tough, resistant to abrasion, cuts, punctures, and flame. It's been used as armor for the bottom of our feet for centuries in shoe soles.
It might not be a SUIT of armor, but it's armor.
Why do thieves wear leather armour
Its made out of hide.
flecher wulff in half a year nobody said it
Its “wear”,not “where”
Nerfiy nobody cares
DIOhydrogen Monoxide i might be a nobody but i cared
Nerfiy exactly
@@RayTC Still wrong, so
"Did people use X material found locally in abundance for weapons and armor?"
Yes.
Shion Kreth why no water armor then
Big Brain time
@@timtim6373 they'll add it with Terraria's next update.
That's why I make dirt armor
@@timtim6373 WWII UK's attempt at pykrete would like a chat.
Maybe not human armour, but a ship hull's good enough.
Hey Skall i'm A Tlingit native, and I wanted to say appreciate you showing common respect and courtesy to my people! Most of our culture and history is overlooked, so it means a lot to see info about my tribe in your video
Sending love to you guys from Haines!
Hell yeah man! You guys are cool as fuck. Keep on trucking!
I would like to learn more about Tlingit arms, armor and culture as I find Native American tribes interesting
Wholesome as hell bro 😊
Respect from so-called-poland, mate.
Many years ago, I saw a documentary where archeologists reconstructed a mycenaean boar tusk helmet and shot it with a bow and the bones would often shatter, but they absorbed enough energy and deviated the arrow head enough to save your life. So they played their role.
oh, so like modern ceramic plates taking the brunt of a bullet and shattering (usually) in the process?
old comment but, their lamellar-design meant they could be relatively easily repaired after the battle if a surplus of bone scales was kept.
One important point with fantasy leather armour is the context within the overall universe. Unlike real life many fantasy worlds seemingly have a near endless supply of murderous beasts which seemingly _must_ be killed for safety's sake anyway, and they tend to have far tougher hides than equivalent real-life animals. In such a world armour-grade leather is plentiful especially for hunters, guards and adventurers while at the same time mining tends to be far more dangerous due to those same beasts, Balrogs, or just your usual orks'n'goblins raiding the quarry. Who _wouldn't_ try and make armour out of Smaug's scales?
If your fantasy people are making leather armour out of cows or pigskin you're doing it wrong. Or playing Minecraft.
Im.... im actually writing a story with my girlfriend and im going to bring this up to her when she wakes up because thats brilliant... thank you!
That's a REALLY good point, i have my own homebrew DnD with my friends and i cant belive i hadnt thought of that before!
Well, you make a good point. Hell, entire point of Monster Hunter is to tag and bag whatever it is that you're hunting at the moment for the sole purpose of using it's ridiculously durable hide for a brand new armor set. And it HAS to be tough, those things can take a beating for 30 minutes straight.
Makes me think of Monster Hunter.
Kill that thing! Make armor and weapons out of it! Now kill that thing! Now make armor and weapons out of it!
I'm sooo incorporating this in my RP ^_^
But what about Italian Pasta armour?
I am french and we use the crust of baguettes as armour :D :D
@@jeremieherard2166 Ce n'etait pas une arme? Comme un épée? (sorry my French is not best also my phone doesn't have letters with acents)
In Russia - we use Vodka bottles as weapon, bear hide as an armour, and balalaika's as a pommel replacement... =__=
@@deathlyvoid2419 (no problem :O there wasn't a single mistake ! ) there's also the meme with the baguette-sword ^^
I'm sure that some sort of glue and pasta composite material would be quite effective.
Some units of the Mongol and Chinese empires used paper armor.
And apparently it was actually pretty good.
I imagined this as origami armour
Layers of coarse paper sheets laid in a crossgrain pattern would be kind of like a budget option for a disposeable gambeson, the rough cellulose fibres could catch arrows.
Also properly hardened Papier Mache makes a good ablative coat for a hard armor backing.
Robert McCutcheon first time I saw it in mount and blade I thought it was bad translation
Whoa, they really did have paper soldiers! 😂
A lot of paper armor were made with silk paper actually
That thumbnail lol imagine being in a line of men in an army, watching the enemy marching towards you...everyone’s adrenaline is through the roof, death is right in front of you...then you turn to the guy next to you and see that look 😂
🤣
What?
>if only you knew how bad things really are
🤣It would release a lot of stress.. Eventually
I'd always assumed that arm bracers were worn much like they're worn today: for archery. Anyone with experience of a high poundage bow string slapping their inner forearm will understand why they're nice things to have.
Peter M More living historical practice!
archery, falconry. both are practical examples. but could also just be a way to pre splint and brace your wrists for hard impacts like wrist guards are used today. also to have a hard surface beneath a suit of chain mail could be beneficial. chain can snag at your arm hair you know ;)
@@SAGERUNE You shouldn't have mail against your skin anyway. Hell even a shirt would do, but I imagine most wore some kind of padded armor under the mail. So wearing leather underneath mail doesn't make much sense to me, personally.
@@Kosh800 - I could _maybe_ see it being used to distribute force over a larger area, but yeah, it doesn't seem like leather underneath mail would have all that much practical benefit.
i always find it funny how skall always ignores the fact samurai didn't wear metal gauntlets and they did wear leather vambraces and that kind of thing instead
He'll address my wooden armor concerns any day now. He even mentioned it.
What about Havel's armour from Dark Souls? 600 pound 3 inch thick stone armour is realistic right?
It's especially realistic when they flip around in it.
It is if you wear havel’s ring with it
The most impressive part about Havel's armor and shield isn't even how heavy it is. How the heck would you make it?
EvilUnicornLord ROCK
And 7 inch hoofs on the boots
The most fascinating armor in my opinion was the Aztec cotton armor that was soaked in brine to "temper" it.
Sounds itchy.
@@daniel-zh9nj6yn6y I imagine they wore something softer underneath it. Still the effectiveness is quite surprising. Enough to block arrows and bladed strikes. Padded enough, to dampen impact blows as well.
reminds me of the linothorax
I will slay thee and wear thy bones as a grand new armor set!
Skyrim approves!
Monster hunter approves
its mostly rib bones that are suitable so you may need to slay multiples .
The Forest approves!
I will never wear bone armor unless it was made of dragon bone!
My hat is off to Skal for pondering this subject with some actual thought instead of the usual "Leather is just hollywood silliness because not enough have been found and because and because". A bit too often the history fanatics seem to lack imagination and even such a basic trait as common sense to even land on the same page of actual events. With a pretty high probability the people of old were not dimwits, and most likely they crafted armour out of most readily available materials, cheaper ones for the common folk and more elaborate for the rich.
Funnily enough, the graves of the rich have been literal treasure chests of historical items, while the peasant rarely got a full suit of armour to help them on their journey through afterlife. And why would the son have buried his fathers armour with him, if he was in dire need for the garment himself? In my humble opinion, most common items that were yet too expensive to be replaced completely, were used until failing so utterly, there was little of them left, when they were eventually discarded. And even if we managed to find a metric ton of these leathery remains, would we recognize them as pieces of armour?
Historical finds tell us something has existed, they do not, however, exclude anything else out of the possible realm of existence.
That was very well said and i couldnt agree more.
But it is a safer logical step to discount something until has been proven to have exist, to do the opposite runs the risk of presenting false history. Also, it is not like we have no common man finds. We have the Visby finds, arms requirement inventory, artistic evidence and those things so far indicate regions in the world where leather armor was rare. So far, through most of history, leather armor in Europe was a uncommon to almost nonexistent thing. It make sense for a farming society. Why would you kill you only meat, milk, or clothing supply to make something you might never use when you can grow a multi functional piece of equipment out the ground with seeds and time or just remove the coat or hair of an animal and leave them alive?
@@PJDAltamirus0425 Is right. It's also often forgotten that animal hides were expensive. Most "leather" in Roman times didn't come from cows, it came from goats. Even shields were expensive because a properly made shield had to be made with cow leather. That was the main reason it wasn't used, probably. The other reason is because quilted armor offers far, far better protection for the weight and cost of leather armor. But most poor people simply had no armor when they had to equip themselves. The exception being (as usual) the Romans (sorry Mongol friends, not this time...)
Did you just equal your conjectures and day to day logic to historical science? I'd rather wait for evidence than propagate myths, lies and misinformation on the off chance of "but mah imagination and common sense are correct 1 time out of 1000!".
@@nuancedhistory9729Also, their allot of items that are apart of everyday life than need to be made out of leather, shoes, work gloves, knife and sword scabbards, drinking bladders saddles, belts, etc. Upon the event that hide had to be harvested, a person would have to make the consuis decision of not having new versions of these items or selling the hide to a shoemaker to have a item made that could be make from a more abundant , less resource intensive materiel. I think one of the reasons leather scale shows up so is because with scale, you could make much larger garment from pieces of hide to small to be useful for anything else than a scale piece.
"the way i talked back then was kind of cringy"
pLEASE UPLOAD THEM i'm imagining you trying to do an impersonation of War from Dark Siders and trying to sound super edgy and cool and its hilarious in my head
Plz
This must be released, for posterity!
@Keith Au i lost track of what you were saying trying to read that.
Interesting fact: In France, the word "cuirasse" that we also find in english (cuirass), is commonly used to talk about a piece of armor, placed on torso. In french, "cuir" means leather!
so cover your ass in leather?
@@psychozulu 😂
@@psychozulu no torso
That also translate to Portuguese, with "couro" (leather) and "couraça" (armour).
"Corpse Armor" sounds like a pretty awesome name for my future death metal band XD
see ya in the future corpse armor!
Weird, yet catchy haha good luck to you bro :)
I can imagine your logo already
succ
Write a song about the assasing bug
Every time I see an old Skald clip, I always think how much weight you've lost, well done senpai, keep up the good work my dude
I feel like, because they deteriorate easier, whenever we find armor made of organic materials, it means there was a lot more where it came from- so if we find equal amounts of metal and leather, there must have been a lot more leather at some point
The Greeks had linen armors with several layars and glue Alexander the great apparently wore one. I saw in documentary tests of it and it was surprising how protective only linen with glue can be
zar ombiste No they didn’t. That is a common myth spread about Greeks.
@@constantineofamerica1555 - Your source? Linen and leather are both likely materials for Greek torso armor, with or without scales around the abdomen.
everybody who had a bit of cyanocrylate glue fallen on any clothes will agree with this.
@@constantineofamerica1555 There is very little evidence the armour was made purely from glued linen, but you can no more prove it is a myth than I can prove it is real. Alexander was a king and wealthy. Therefore he would have the access to 'luxury' items that most could not afford. Just like rich Knights would have a full suit of armour, most soldiers only had maille and a Gambeson. Linen was available, but expensive. Glues were available and they certainly knew that layers of cloth could protect the wearer. So why not? Layered and bonded fabrics are still used to this day for the same reasons.
@@another3997 "Just like rich Knights would have a full suit of armour, most soldiers only had maille and a Gambeson. Linen was available, but expensive."
Though Gambeson is made out of Linen and it is very cheap so it would make no sense that it would be expensive in an empire as vast as Alexanders though it does clearly depends on region and the quality of the material though it would not be as expensive as suggested as there is always low and high quality variants of goods.
Leather armor existed yes. However the reason people say its 'fake' is because many movies swap out what should be BRIGANDINE for leather with just the metal studs.
Blame Gary Gygax for that one
Agreed, although for the most part, brigandine was covered in linen satin or velvet more often than suede or leather. Another thing hollywood loves is awfully put together/arranged coats of plates covered with leather.
Movies also use leather armor that wouldn't actually work, and that looks more like biker gear than historical armor. Leather armor was real, but not the silly version Hollywood likes to show.
Studded leather armor is BS. Using studs to fix small metal plates to the leather (most likely on the inside) would look almost the same, but actually be useful. Plus it only needs small pieces of metal, leftovers etc.
I think Hollywood's lack of understanding history or any interest in it, is the main reason why none of the stuff above looks anything remotely like we see in Hollywood. How easy would it be to put a sheet of plastic or something under one of their studded jackets to make it look like a coat of plates. And look at how complex all those garments above are. If some of the elements that hard to get were to be replaced more easily available, it would be hard for even an expert to notice, after it goes through editing. And those intricate carvings, and etchings and decorations could very easily be printed and with a bunch of templates, they could easily pass off a bunch of leather jerkins as real historical armour. But they don't make any effort, it's as if they hate history.
1350s, Hungarian soldiers campaigning in Italy wore "farsetto di cordovano" (leather doublets - read caftan/dolman) of several layers, which Matteo Villani declared useful for defending oneself in combat. Basic tests indicate protection roughly equivalent to mail (though considerably more ablative).
What's ablative
I'll Google it
A little thing to keep in mind with bone is that when it's fresh and alive, it's extremely easy to break, however, when exposed to air for a long time, it ages and hardens, becoming extremely tough. If we were to apply the same logic to actual bone armour, it would be pretty good at protecting the wearer.
Leather and hide armours show up with decent regularity in parts of Africa.
We have references in Arabic chronicles to Berber cuirasses made from the hide of the scimitar oryx, the same animal that the Ghanaians, the Almoravids, and the modern Tuareg made shields out of. According to one source they sold for the same amount as the shields, at 30 dinars a piece.
As you move further south in West Africa, you encounter descriptions of leather skullcaps on Jolof and Malian infantry, and leather helmets on Malian cavalry. You also get shields made of buffalo, elephant, or hippopotamus hide, and more rarely, references to what might be cuirasses or helmets made from the same stuff.
"organic armor" narrowing it down to leather and other animal parts, otherwise we would have to deal with wood, textile, stone
>stone
Armor made from liver stones, only the richest can afford it
Hey, are you racist against rock people?
@@Skallagrim Chinese paper armor should get a segment in a future video.
@@Skallagrim #trolllivesmatter Rise for the rights of silicone based individuals everywhere, and the equal treatment of their harvested bodyparts
Isn't Metal considered a subset of Rock?
Don't show this to Lindybeige... he'll have a stroke
Also if you put enough layers of soft flexible material on of course it will protect you from attacks! Its not worth making a video over! Salt, on the other hand...
He survived Shadiversity's back scabbard video, so... Or maybe he hasn't seen it
@@eliasbischoff176 Lindy has been a bit off the rails since he claimed that the British were the first to cross the Atlantic in an aircraft... but forgot the part about "non-stop" and "solo" in that video and then angrily acted like those things don't matter.
@@MrArgus11111 I don't think I watched that video...
@@eliasbischoff176 it's on his channel still, he was pretty roundly ripped up in the comments
Next up:
Dragon scales discovered
I mean you could make armor out komodo dragon hide
@@DiscardatRandom Bet it has great fire resistance!
@@jooot_6850 oh yeah for sure and 20% more damage to dragons
The closest I've seen is pangolin scales, which are pretty awesome, actually.
The other example that springs to mind for me, although not technically bone, is the 7th C. (CE), Benty Grange helmet from England. It had an iron frame, but was covered/constructed using horn plates. Very interesting video by the way!
Why doesn't anyone mention buff coats when they talk about leather armor?
I think it's because most of the discussion is looking into evidence of leather armour used during medieval and ancient times. Also, with all due respect to the buff coat, I don't think it really counts as armour. It was primarily just for cushioning underneath plate armor and as a rugged piece of clothing for long campaigns, I don't think it was ever expected to protect from direct blows, or to be worn on its own as a means of protection.
It is actually quite cut resistant when tested by the royal armoury in Leeds.
leather lamellar armor (from bison hides) was a common armor for byzantine cataphract horses of the 10th century. It is been described in Praecepta Militaria III.37-46
Interesting, got references? Particularly on them calling the animals bison. I always thought the rest of the world had buffalo (many types) while bison was specificly the buffalo of the american plains. (a couple of good references will decide a long standing argument between myself, a history professor, and a HS biology teacher about bison/buffalo)
PS, I meant translated - the original document is Greek to me
Robert Lockard But the word choices for animal names would be entirely those of the translator. Also, this source significantly predates the modern systematic naming used in zoology, so even the Latin names won't directly compare to modern terminology.
@@muninrob there is a European bison, Bison bonasus. They were more widespread in historical times, but hunting drove them near extinction. There were also aurochs, and possibly African and Asian buffalo hides could have been obtained through trade.
@@muninrob Praecepta Militaria III.37-46
from Eric McGeer "sowing the dragons teeth"
the text says "κλιβάνια (Lamellar armor) από βουβαλικών βυρσαρίων" which McGeer translates "Bison hides". I think it is mostly correct. "βυρσαρίων" means leather - hide as "Βυρσοδεψία" in modern Greek is leather tanning. "βουβάλι" in modern Greek means anything from an ox to a bison.
Thank you all for the responses
@John Francis Doe - that was exactly the nature of the argument
@Gumaro Thank you for reminding me of the Aurochs and other historical members of the Bos family in Europe
@Gian Thank you for the translation, the original was greek to me (sorry, bad pun) it's also quite interesting that the greek word appears to cover the entire family
And I owe my European History professor "3 fingers of good scotch, neat"
Dried egg yolk armor, tough, colorful, impossible to remove
big brain
I love how the dragonbone armor in skyrim is surprisingly realistic and reasonable for what it is.
Hey buddy, I think you've got the wrong door
The leather club's two blocks down
Leather man : "Fxxk~~~~U/
STOP
FUUUCK YOUUUU
Yeah? Smartass?
Gachigasm, I'm the donjon master
This is awesome! i'm writing a book, and characters in it wear leather armor. Right before i looked it up you posted this. You're either psychic or just awesome.
are they mutualy exclsive?
Name a barbarian scargoth
alex bloodhunter he's awesome dude, that's obvious
still love it that the game doesn't have pants outside of being part of the chest armor, so my Witch was constantly running around with some kind of plate chest piece and no pants ^^
It's not i but I
I'm surprised there wasn't a side note upon mentioning Tlingit about their wooden slat armour that they would put OVER the already hardened leather armour. They also wore carved wooden helmets and neck guards. The armour of the Haida people is of the same make and there was reports from Russian explorers that arrows wouldn't penetrate the armour and neither would bullets unless within 20ft
Your imperfection is what made your old videos interesting. Leather on a bottle still had some aspects to study. Negative tests are still good for determining what is good.
Your content is always top quality! Keep up the Fantastic work!!!
But what about Chitin Armor?
With a spidersilk gambeson.
Stinger arming sword
I bet if there were insects the size of those in video games, their chitin would likely be better armor than steel.
Spider silk is already thougher than steel, but the reason nobody ever made armor from it was that even a simple cloak is so ludicrously expensive only kings could afford it.
EDIT: It has more tensile strength than steel, but I don't know if it would be able to hold fast against sword attacks better than a gambeson made with the same thickness. And I doubt we will ever find out.
There's actually a coat of scale armor from India made from pangolin scales. Pangolins are mammals, and their armor is made from keratin
@@Nerobyrne If there were insects of that size humanity probably wouldn't exist.
your videos are getting better and better, keep the good work
Putting leather ontop of mail would make alot of sense since the mail shirt is often loose and uses up energy the more you move around. The leather holds it tight to you so it doesnt snag or use up your energy as much. Leather vanbraces finally make some sense now to me. I mean an archers bracer always made sense or bracers over arms and legs to prevent scratches from brambles and such. I feel in war leather wouldnt be common but everyday comfort items maybe. Youve made me wonder and think.
Personally I just strap the corpses of my enemies unto my body. Sometimes they aren’t corpses when I enter, but what’s scary is when they exit battle no longer a corpse.
Just stay away from them necromancers bruh
@@erikm12 Necromance if you want too! Never leave your friends behind! (But your friends don't Necromance so they're...no friends of mine)
@@tomroberts1105 can they dance though?
I mean
Necromancy is powerful, probably in a medieval world as well
Some crazy motherfucker starts raising zombies from fallen enemies
Instead of fighting the necromancer, the opponents are forced to fight the zombies
@@spartanwar1185 also how necromancers can make an army on a burial area and maybe raid a village and turn them into monsters tooo
Wearing leather "plate" on mail makes quite a bit of sense when you consider blunt force trauma to your limbs your biggest problem in combat; the best mail and gambeson stopping a blade from cutting into your arm won't do you any good if the sheer force shatters the bone...
While the gambeson would stop most of the force, I do agree that leather would help there
I will say that that won't be much an issue with the gamberson the take so much more then given credit. I won't argue the scientific logic behind the givin argument
You shouldn't remove your old videos. It shows how far you've come (and how much weight you've lost) as a content creator! I've been watching you for years and you've become a very good creator!
Plus love going back to keep my self entertained while waiting for more content to roll out! I call them refresher days, lol.
Damn Skall! You have really thinned out over the years. Looking good man! Love the videos!
I'm so scarred by Path of Exile that i noticed the bone armour in the thumbnail is the Carnal Armour from the game. fml.
The first thing that catched my eyes
same :D
Ey ey, lets go to the Lunaris Temple in act 3 again I am sure you will like it :D
@@deathstar6998 6 man Piety farming, or maybe 6 man Dominus farming. Good 'ole times :P
Why are you scarred by it? Didn't seem that special or difficult a game to me, but I only played for about 30 hours, so maybe I missed something.
The problem isn’t bone and leather armor per sa. The problem is how people conceptualize it. Some stripes of bone as part of a laminar armor makes sense. Wearing an animal skull as a helmet doesn’t.
With some padding and the right shape why not? Unfortunately most fictional examples are a buffalo skull with the horns still attached.
Photoloss
I tend to see deer skulls with the antlers still attached as the main example in fantasy or wolf skulls with the fur attached.
+Deity1 oh if we're counting those don't forget the bear rug complete with intact lower jaw! Granted those and the wolf pelts are usually reserved for otherwise naked barbarians and thus likely serve ceremonial purposes.
Photoloss, bones from dead animals are very brittle, and an animal skull isn’t a good shape for a helmet.
While live bone is quite though, dead bone is brittle and cracks and splinters easily. Horn or even ivory is a much better armor material.
been a sub since like 2000 subs man. Love watchin and am so glad you got all the support and so many subs! Congrats!
5:50 As far as I know this type of armor existed. But it wasn´t only leather, it was a steel or bronze breastplate with leather around it. So it was more expensive than a regular breastplate and were only used from "higher soldiers". It also had more representative functions and was less effektive in defence, because a normal breastplate is designd that a spear or arrow can slip off. But the design of a muscle armor could "catch" a spear or arrow, what you normaly don´t want.
There's a good reason why leather is a good material to wear whilst riding a motorcycle. It can take quite a beating when you hit the pavement/gravel. It's pretty sturdy stuff, all things considered.
that's against abrasion against stabs it fares less good... especially if your wearing the same biker coat.
There's a difference between trying not to hurt yourself as you fall onto the ground
And praying that someone intentionally trying to kill you doesn't get through your armor
So just a clarification: The Dura Europos fragment at 6:05 is what we call exposed lacing hanging lamellar and dates to 257 AD. Simon James has proposed it was scale and used as a cuisse for a thigh, but the actual dimensions of the piece are far too large for the Human body. Although Dawson cites an earlier paper, Dawson in his "Armour Never Wearies" proposes that it was instead a neckguard for a horse. This is also supported by Nadeem Ahmad, reenactor of Eran Ud Turan and the only Central Asian reenactor in the world, who has reconstructed multiple examples of exposed lacing hanging lamellar.
It is most likely that the Dura Europos piece was an import, probably from Sogdia, sold to the Roman forces there by a small arms dealer.
Karanis is another issue. The scale sizes are much more debatable for whether or not it's horse or human sized. The fact that only a front half survives seems to support a horse more when combined with the large scale sizes, which would be extremely unusual for Roman infantry armor. Its construction falls under the same typology as the Tutankhamen hauberk, according to Dawson. That scale construction is a local style found in Bronze and Iron age Levantine, Egyptian, Nubian, etc. fragments and the Karanis find is the only Roman-era example of that construction. When taken in context of where it is believed to have been found, which is on a private landlord's estate, it was not a piece used by the Roman military. Rather, it seems likely that it was used by privately contracted estate guards hired from the local community.
Good on the Crocodile Skin "suits".
Anyways, great video Skallagrim, look forward to more of your stuff.
Ninjas will lose a tournament to you give skaal a break
@@freddymichalak9306 I have no idea what that means. Otherwise, I was just providing some information on two pieces mentioned by Skaal. Overall his overview is very solid and he did a good job.
TL DR my bad, I'm too quick to be a bouncer at times need to burn off stuff, Nice armor by the way
@@freddymichalak9306 Thanks, it's based on a Hunnic-era find from the Ob river in Russia and depictions in the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore. Speculative, but historically sourced.
And it's alright, I think maybe I did come across as unintentionally scathing in my comment. I can be like that a lot.
Always interesting. And yes. Ykur delivery has changed. Now a days more calm and not really in angst. Hope you make more videos and have success in the future
Damn man I have to say, I came to your channel by accident and stayed for a while out of curiosity BUT you're content is damn good, interesting and damn engaging! Thank you very much!
Man you have no idea how long i've been waiting for this video. It felt like everything HEMA talked about was Plate Armor and Swords specifically, i wish to see more of Axes and Maces or talks about Warhammers.
6:47 actually this armor is from a later date, possibly 17th or 18th century; it is a ceremonial suits and it was erroneously dated sy Bashford Dean in his first book about Japanese arms and armors in the earli 1900.
7:07 Japan has many rawhide helmets, both functional and ceremonial. The most common example are rawhide jingasa, the kettle helmets of the foot soldiers, but some Kabuto were made of rawhide as well. Many 17th and 18th century armors were entirely made of rawhide plates
I know China also manufactured leather helmets and suits or armour from at least Qin times the 19c
@@mysticonthehill yep. This Tibetan helmet is from the area between east Tibet, Sichuan and yunnan were leather armor was extremely common and described by the song as the best lacquered armor. I assembled this huge collection about them if you want to check them out ;) pin.it/e2i6jyp2db7z5c
Crocodile back armor was definitely used in west Africa as both helmets and breast plates. It was said to be able to stop both steel melee weapons as well as crossbows. It was used in the Kingdom of Benin. The Kingdom of Benin also used a type of scale armor called pangolin armor that was made out of rawhide as well as hardened leather helmets and leather cuirasses. P.S bronze, cotton and steel armor was also used. I am also Iroquois as well as black and we used wooden as well as antler armor.
Your take on composite armour layered with glue and sand is quite fascinating. I'd love to see a cut/puncture test. Otherwise end them rightly! Keep up the excellent work Skäll!
Finally realistic leather armor. Plus leather armor is more plausible in fantasy cause you got monsters so you can make troll,ogre and minotaur hide/leather/skin lamellar armor this are just some examples.
3:00 Wait, That was YOU!? I still remember watching that video some several year back then and already forgot who uploaded that video.
I just recently discovered your channel and it is a good balance between weapons/armor knowledge and entertainment. Congratulations !
Concerning the leather armors, at least in France and in Europe nobody reasonable enough would doubt of their existence. The french word "cuirasse" which has been used at least since the 13th century, derives late latin word "coriacea" (leather) and obviously is a cousin word of "cuir" (leather). But it is true that leather does not like time, like wood, where metal is often luckier. But it also depends of the soil in which the item was buried, so in case of acidic soil you will find neither leather nor metal, and conversely a bog can preserve both.
I think that thick leather you shot with your crossbow is "vegetable" tanned cow hide. Based on the thickness it's from the the part of the hide that used to cover the shoulder or rump of the animal. From the edge you can often see 3 distinct layers of tissues, but it's not a laminated product - that's just the way the skin is structured. That type of leather is used often for making saddles, knife sheaths, and holsters. It becomes pliable and can be stretched and tooled after being soaked in water. It can take days to dry back out. It also dyes well.
Hey Skal, you know what I'd really like to see a pro such as you do?
Whether or not is the bonemold armour from morrowind actually plausible.
Now that would be rezlly hard because as far as i know its never revealed how to make it
Maybe you boil it in water to shape it, kind of like shaping horn for a bow?
Bonemold armor is said to be made of bone meal mixed with resin and molded into shape
im from egypt i didn't actually knows ancient egyptian used leather armor , thanks for info
I've seen many of your videos and from my perspective you do alot of speculation but many more times factual information. And if you do any type of hypothesizing you always say that it is speculation. I love the channel. Please keep it up. Thanks
Hey Skall, great video as always. I am from the small Mediterranean Island of Malta, and even here we have sources for leather armour. Unfortuantely, none have survived. However, written sources describe it. Leather helmets were common, and were described as Beretta di Guardia (Guard's hat). We do not know when they started, but we know that theu were in use in the late Medieval Period up until the Great Siege of 1565. They were worn by the Mahras, local conscripts tasked as coastal look-outs for Muslim pirates.
3:15 i dunno, Skall in that video seems to have quite enough "mass" ☝️😂
good on you for losing it, great job.
Qin terracotta army wore lacquered rawhide lamellar armor. Rawhide is stronger, tougher, and cheaper than leather. The process of tanning rawhide to make leather is expensive, time consuming, and makes the hide much weaker in the effort to make it softer.
Your most informative video I've seen yet. Thank you. I loved what you say about "unless you have proof, it's just speculation." It very much needs to be said.
Lol loved seeing the old videos. You have come a long way my friend.
When it comes to leather and bone armor it's hard to say because it's just that and rots away . Sad probably some really cool designs
And so the legends foretold; a tale of a bell which until uncovered by subscribe button-most-elusive, will notify you of all of Skallgrim's uploads.
Ooh, a video on wooden and stone armour (examples if any, feasibility, theories on how to do it etc) would be awesome!
I find this topic really fascinating. Been working on world building for a culture that can't harm plants, so armor and weapons made from animal parts is one of my sources of inspiration for their material culture. You should do another episode on non-metal weapons!
2:50 wow a man who can admit and repair his less than stellar moments.
Slightly more respect from me to you bro. True strength.
that seems a bit dramatic honestly
That thumbnail is the best thing ever
Holy cow, I was just about to ask you to cover bone armor like a week ago. You read my mind, rightly.
Been way to long sense I've watched one of your videos, really refreshing!
I've never seen the native american armor examples in this video and I very much appreciate that you found them. I'm more familiar with the other type that is commonly portrayed in media, do you think you can do a weapons without metal video again. That was my favorite classic Skall vid.
Yes a lot of people are unfamiliar with native american armour because of the early arrival of the gun in the americas with the europeans. But I feel it was pretty wide spread as I have seen photos/painting of natives wearing it almost all regions of many different substances. Fabric, cord, wood, basketry, raw hide, harden leather, ivory the Comanche even had heavy cavalry men that both man and mount were armoured in the 16th century.
you know i kinda feel that the finger guards you showed might have been used by archers, i think drawing and releasing a heavy bow can be quite uncomfortable, but with those leather pieces one could protect ones bow drawing fingers.
I used to be the best soldier in the Stormcloak army, until I took a sword through the chest.
Really is
Without a brace
You could be pretty raw
Archers actually did use leather armguards to protect the inside of their 'bow-arm' against slaps of the string when firing. And a 2 or 3-fingered glove with their 'pulling arm' to avoid finger fatigue / raw fingers.
They might want their fingers free to grip the bow-string properly.
Modern archers certainly have finger-tabs and some have gloves, for that exact reason. Especially with higher draw-weight bows, that's a lot of pressure on a thin bow string, and will get sore, even if you do have calluses!
skal, i love your channel, but could you possibly post things about modern armor? id love to see some broken down whys and hows about armor selection for the modern sword/gun fighter. you do a lot of great work, i bet you out of anyone could offer a less "murica" position on ballistics (bullets, fragments, and things like shotguns) and mechanical (hammer, sword, spear, arrow) how modern armor holds up to ancient martial arts, etc. some more interesting aspects on modern protection.
hope you are having a good year - Faervian (thats my IGN)
I used to build stuff like your lamellar armors aswell, when I was younger. Ofc I knew if at all, it would only be lously "historical accurate" (if at all). But it was just for fun, so I didn`t really care. I worked alot with that kind of leather you show at 1:40. This stuff was bloody rugget, especially when layered in a lamelar configuration. One of the shoulder/torso pieces I made was so damn rubbust, especially when combinated with a gambeson...I tryed to effectively penetrate it by stabbing it with a combat knive, it did need several attempts to be considerabily damaged. After that own experience I never understood some internet arguements about leather being too soft to protect. Anyways, good video ;) (and sorry about my bad english)
“Leather and bone armor are complete fantasy!”
Skall: “That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo 👉👉”
7:05 what about the Pickelhaube, used by Imperial Germany at the end of the 19th century up to the beginning of WWI. I believe it was made of several layers of boiled, pressed leather
It wasn't meant to provide much protection. You don't want to bump your head on something above you and the Pickelhaube was mainly for that. Also any ceremonial/ parade usefulness. It was replaced after many deaths in WWI due to shrapnel wounds to the head.
@@brianwyters2150
No wonder the Stahlhelm is so much more practical.
It had a eagle shaped plate in the front that was thick enough to stop the guns from that time and the "Pickel" on top provides protection against sabers. The leather wasn't the main protection. It mostly just held the metal parts were they had to be and was quite cut resistent
@@SchwachsinnProduzent guns from that time? pretty sure the battle rifles of yore with +7.7 caliber had a tad more stopping power behind them than most modern ar, even with the rounded tips . and the pistol rounds were not that diferent to modern ones neither.
@@rocket_sensha4337 gun penetration has more reliance on bullet speed than stopping power. The reason calibars are smaller in the first place is because of body armor. People value speed more now. Anyways, this video is only talking about completely organic armor, so it doesn't matter.
We live all the crazy tests.
Keep em coming , it is a lot of fun
There is also the Benty Grange helmet from England. It was found in an early Anglo Saxon grave. It has an iron frame, but the majority of the helmet is sheets of horn. Unfortunately it's unknown if it was ceremonial or usable.
I was actually hyped after I heared skalla metion findings from Estonia, freaking nobody even knows something called "Estonia" exists.
i have never heard of a non american not knowing about estonia, but americans dont know where russia is so that doesent say much.
Estonia had a great farmers political party in the 20's (Põllumeeste Kogud), so of course people know the country, but aside from that fact not much is known about Estonia to us foreigners.
People tend to forget Finland exists aswell.
Maybe in the US. In Europe you're expected to have a minimum of education.
@@arthursimsa9005 To be fair it depends greatly on where the American is from.
I really thought leather armor was exceedingly common. It just seemed like a decent alternative to metal. Surprised to hear it was so rare!
Leather can be expensive depending on the time and place
Depends on where you are. It's a lot more common in Asia and Africa. They found a whole whack of Mamluk Egyptian rawhide and laminated leather lamellar in the Citadel of Damascus, and we've got numerous surviving 19th century rawhide cuirasses from sub-Saharan Africa, made out buffalo, elephant, antelope, and crocodile hide among others.
Informative and fun as always Skallagrim! Thank you :)
CZcams just recommended this video to me and damn! I directly subscribed.
Also, your other content is really neat. Work on!
bone would probably make for great light-weight armor if you don't have the ability to forge metal.
Of course the problem is that anything that breaks your actual bones will also break those, which is probably why it didn't stick around ^^
Actually it's even weaker than that, only ivory and horn is truly tough enough. See, dead bone is brittle. You'd have to reinforce it with some sort of glue to make it really work otherwise it will only protect against slashes and not thrusts or axes.
@@AstralS7orm ah of course, good point.
Let's debate about the nitty gritty details about how expensive leather armor was.
Thank You for uploading this great episode!
If anyone has ever done any Hunting in their lifetime, they will tell you that Bear has VERY thick hides. We know the Polar Bear, the Kodiak & the Grizzly Bear all existed back in those days - so YES - those hides will definitely make for some very heavy armor. I've hunted Black Bear & I know First hand how thick their hides are versus a white tail deer. Huge Difference!
Every time I watch your show, I want to play Age of Empires.
As a sport fencer using eastern techniques I look to strike my foes hands and fingers even when armored
“Stop him at the wrist” is the adage
For us it was always "Attack the hand that's holding the sharp thing so they can't hold it anymore"
That's fine when you're only 'playing', but on a battlefied I suspect it might not be so easy.
I know about another technique to harden up the leather made with pitch, i think because when it is dry and stabilized is an archetype of resin. It also prevent a bit the corrosion\aging of the leather. Btw i really love your channel sir Ska
Fascinating video. It certainly gives me new ideas about what everything in ASoIaF looks like. Thanks a bunch.