Dr Peter Kreeft - Moral Theology & Homosexuality
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- A talk from 2002
1. Distinctions (0:00)
2. Sexuality (7:05)
3. Third Eye (18:38)
4. Image of God (24:59)
5. Three Stories (29:00)
6. Three Arguments (35:34)
Questions (39:54)
For more on Moral Theology, see Kreeft's book: www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
For more on Roman Catholic teachings on sexuality, see the book:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
The clarity of Dr Kreeft is quite refreshing! As one scans the comments below, one gets a snapshot into a culture and patterns of thought that are muddy, obscure and defined by boundaries. These are gulfs so wide which no one on either side can cross. Thanks be to God!
You have to understand that the majority on you tube are Atheists or homosexuals or both. What ever this speaker says I am a Catholic and I am told to love the sinner and hate the sin.Maybe . but I cannot tolerate being in the same space as either of these kinds of people.Get real.Because we are what we think and what we say and what we feel and what we do.No intellectual discussion can change that.
45:05
"Loving sinners necessarily results in hating sins. If you have a cancer that's destroying your body, then if I don't hate that cancer, then I don't really love you. And the more I love you the more I am going to hate the cancer. And that's what sin is, cancer to the soul."
That's genius.
true and homophobia is like a cancer.
brian mattocks phobia is an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.. this described in the video has nothing to do with fear or aversion.
brian mattocks i would say ignorance is a cancer.. and i think you might be stage 3
mike
clearly u know nowt of phobias! Actually if u ask the phobic sociaty, they will tell u a phobia is actually an irrational fear, or irrational hate or orrational dislike of something....please get educated. As now if ignerence is a cancer ur full blown
brian mattocks
i really hope you scroll back up and realize you said "ignerence" hehehehhh
This man will one day be either a canonized saint or even perhaps doctor of the church. Mark my words.
Saint, yes. Doctor? No. Doctors of the church give developments or iterations on Theology that is unique to their teachings. Kreeft, for his great intellect, is not overly improving on theology. He explains theology INCREDIBLY WELL, but doesn't give insights. He's no Augustine or Aquinas.
Dr. Peter Kreeft has some excellent books as well.
Cada que escucho al Dr. Peter Kreeft, no puedo evitar admirarlo más, y tampoco puedo evitar envidiar su capacidad de retórica y la de articular sus argumentos!
Simplemente admirable!!
Based on the questions, it seems like no one understood his points in the talk
activists dont usually seek to understand
Error but nice try twisting words up. Sex is not demonic. Sex is beautiful & needs to be protected inside the marrital bond. It isn't a sport that we should act like animals w/o self control to just hump anything that walks by. Do you want to try again on your attempt to 'get me"? Notice I said that the porn industry is demonic as you asked before. Yet you twisted it in a nonsensical way
Why do detractors always attack with strawman arguments and use bad logic to get attention from the actual facts?
I have never heard of actual logic being used to try to discredit or posit an alternative to Catholic moral theological principles. I am at a loss to find much rational argumentation about the actual content of Catholic doctrines.
1) because that would require actual learning, not memorizing talking points
2) rational argumentation requires logic and believing in objective truth
Hello, I was just wondering if you know where this talk was done. I would like to find the reference - so that I could reference it for an essay.
Thanks
Very well done
Wonderful.
Um, if somebody told me that they hate Catholicism but love Catholics, I would understand what they mean, and I would absolutely not call them hypocritical (unless they were saying it as a parody of course).
Christopher Johnson we are all hypocrites in one way or another I just figure that at least we are trying to paddle in the boat of morals together rather then alone encouraging each other to keep rowing because we are almost there.
"Love the Catholic, hate the Catholicism ". Brilliant, I'm using that one.
Is That Dinesh Dsouza asking the first questions?
It is written Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: It is ABOMINATION."
***** Then don't reply. Leave the rest of us alone. By the way Norcal sucks. Socal is better.
***** im from socal where real men are from. Please read the bible and get closer to jesus.
***** Norcal my best advise to you is get closer to Jesus Christ your saviour and read the bible, don't ever go by what other people say unless they have facts to back them up. BTW I dont need to go to Hollywood where people sell their souls to the devil just to get fame Im good where Im at and waiting for Jesus Christ's return. I would rather be a gardener than to sell my soul to the devil.
***** lol all evidence to the contrary. BTW be gay, if you wish, it is you who will not leave world alone. You are demanding to be validated and legally proscribed.
yeah yeah, whatever, fanatics like this always lose in the long run...slavery fanatics said the same thing, pro choicers fanatics, you always declare victory before the tide turns back the other way. Why? because of the lack of truth at the heart of the movement.
Prochoicers are losing ground everyday, the tide is turned there.
Proslavery folks lost ground before losing the war.
FACT.
And if Marx is your touchstone, it just proves the point even more.
What about usury?
Great talk but to refer to a homosexual relationship as a Marriage, even if he was stating the immorality of it shows a serious lack of knowledge of the true meaning of the word marriage.
Good or bad a homosexual union is not a marriage as the word marriage comes from the Latin word Mother and means movement, it is an action word and a transative verb.
well said
it is demonic is it not
Actually Kreeft is a thoughtful, measured, and brilliant philosopher; it is clearly you who are being inane.
When he refers to a "homosexual act" is he referring narrowly to homosexual sex, or is his reference broader than that?
Of course. I dont think he is talking about ACT 2 of Gay Shakespeare.
Is he still alive? 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
It is written Romans 1:27-32 "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
No - it's NOT utterly inane. Listening to Kreeft one thing is clear: the man is not making inane remarks. He is taking a position on something and explains what it is. So you need to engage with his talk and try to refute it. Kreeft is not wasting my time but you are. Just to say his talk is inane is itself..... INANE.
Same with 'superstition'. Key points of a belief system are not superstitious but matters of faith. Putting a pebble under your pillow to cure a toothache - that's superstition.
That guy around 55:00...
You can't compare abortion with homosexuality abortion includes another person the baby and just as we have laws against murder the baby deserves to be protected by law.
It is written 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 " Know ye not that unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetorus, nor drunkards, nor revillers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God."
so any heterosexual whoes effeminate, man or woman will go to hell in ur view? REALLY?
The word translated as effeminate has a meaning more to do with unwillingness to stand up and do what's right and seeking the easy way out than what we mean by the word effeminate today.
@@christophersnedeker2065 Being effeminate and using women as social human shields or flying monkeys is taking the easy way out.
A sensitive man is not effeminate, an introvert is not effeminate, Camp is an acquired exaggerated gestural language used to parody femininity, to garner attention, and avoid competing in male spheres. Deliberately liminal, Trans confers many social advantages, increasingly so.
The idea that Sacred Scripture is different from St Thomas, forgets one thing: God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1.1 is foundational for everything. Alternative theologies are the return to chaos and degeneracy. They will either forget God and accept a if it feels good do it, position. Or they will take bad ideas too seriously.(Totalitarianism) Likewise the fact that God created male and female follows from Gen 1.1. Unless you think the 150 pronouns, that need to learned at the BBC as a work requirement, is not chaos.
Doing the right thing is arbitrairy for who is right and who is wrong?
Crazy how people can comment here on others sins in such a way that they commit a sin.
One of my professors said that the great distinction between philosophers and scientists is that scientists have trashcans.
In one of his videos Mr. Kreeft claims that demons are running the porn industry. Is that rational thinking in your neighborhood?
Yes, l would have shelved that idea under ? until being relentlessly proselytised by satanists etc. sex, "Pornograghy and humiliation, as a fetish, and personality disintegrater, being the way of initiation, and the way to rise up the tree.
Demons goal is humans self betrayal and self destruction. They mock us and encourage us by turn the way that TV talent shows humiliate and showpiece the tone deaf deluded. Their corrosive envy know bounds, sex to them is ridiculous and animalistic so they amplify the capering.
You are familiar with the idea that demons mock religion, but they mock us for our gullibility to their manipulation of us.
Yeah, it's dance little man dance 24/7
YESSSSS
If the morality of sex is to be found in its sacredness, I think we can all recognize the sacredness of love. Now, love is capable between human beings regardless of their sex.
There are too many vagaries in these statements. Please define sex, sacred, and love. You may be confusing sex with love. All will agree with you that love is capable between human beings regardless of their sex ("something you are") but this says nothing about sex("something you do"). What makes sex ("something you do") sacred is the participation in an action through which God creates an eternal immortal soul.
@@josephmichaelanthony1492 l'm 5 years later of course, but the way you phrased that blew me away, l have chosen to be celibate, but were l married .... I would be in awe of this act (and not just in awe of the responsibility for another vunerable human being which l have already experienced)
No wonder most of the diabolical systems ritualise this act, or worship it as a god in itself, or as "how Creation was brought about by 2 gods"
Literally, l underwent a paradigm shift, ThankYou.
The doctor frames his argument based upon certain premises that may or may not be right. As a moral theologian in the Catholic seminary in Mundelein once seemed to be arguing: The Church is right because it cannot be wrong, and the Church cannot be wrong because it is always right (on matters of faith and morals). The doctor echoes that argument. But even if we believe that there is absolute truth, there may still be a difference between God's will at a point in time and God's will ultimately. Think of God as an artist; the art may be ugly until it is finished, but each step in the process is necessary. We are unfinished sculptures. And so, looking from the end back, we may see why at least some people HAD to be a certain way in order to become the way that they are meant to be. This is why the spiritual person (Christian or not) does not judge, but the religious person (Christian or not) so often does. But if God continues to create, who are we to tell Him that his creation is wrong?
Define "judging?" And why put the responsibility on God for clearly mans actions?
Judging would be assigning guilt for the wrong action. We may believe that something is ultimately right or ultimately wrong, but what we believe about the moral absolutes might not always be accurate -- and what we believe about the responsibility of others may not always be accurate. When Jesus said from the cross, "Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do," didn't Jesus mean it? And wouldn't the Father forgive them for their ignorance? Jesus admonishes us not to judge in two Gospels, adding in one "lest you be judged by the same measure" and in the other "and you will not be judged." Assigning guilt is a slippery slope. In answer to the second question, God allows what God allows for God's own reasons.
a moral absolute, for these purposes come from God. There is no prohibition on judging in the Gospels. There is specific guidance on how the faithful should judge, with charity and compassion, but no command that forbides it, rather that great care should be taken.
The most misunderstood passage about judging, is clear that "to remove the log in your own eye, BEFORE removing the speck in your brothers eye." it is clear that you should not hestitate to remove the speck.
Jesus calls us to this comapssionately, but the call to compassion must never outwiegh the call to conversion. Both are essential, modernists tend to favor the compassion at the expense of conversion, henc their fallacy
A Escoto For these purposes? All moral absolutes that are truly moral absolutes come from God. Regarding your statement that there is no prohibition on judging in the Gospels, I think that you must be reading Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37 very differently from the way that I do. To me, those two passages are among the least ambiguous in the Gospels. The requirement that one should remove the plank from one's own eye before attempting to remove the speck from another's eye would, no doubt, enlighten the one who loses the plank more than the one who loses the speck.
Regarding your statement "the call to compassion must never outweigh the call to conversion," whose compassion? whose conversion? St. Francis taught that we should preach the Good News but use words only when necessary. If our "compassion" has the purpose of someone else's conversion, it is not compassion. Of Faith, Hope, and Love, Love is the greatest -- so says the Scripture. It is Love that converts. God is Love. God converts. It is ego, on the other hand, that too often seeks to convert someone else and then wails in frustration when not successful.
You assume that "modernists" favor compassion over conversion, and then you conclude it is their fallacy. If you define "modernists" that way, PERHAPS it is their fallacy, and PERHAPS not. However, compassion seems to me to be a conduit of God's grace leading to evolving conversion, just as evolving conversion results in compassion. There can be no conversion without compassion. Within the soul, the two are so intermingled and reliant on one another that they are actually the same.
You might try reading the mystics (people like St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila, and the more recent Thomas Merton). I know that they are not popular nowadays because they don't offer simple answers that people can memorize and then spew at people whom they presume to be ignorant of God -- but they are well worth reading.
Regarding the issue of homosexuality, Holy Mother Church might do well to allow Herself a moment of humility and introspection and admit that She does know what She does not know. But then, wouldn't that open a can of worms? She might have to be honest about other things, as well. And oh how humbling it would all be to admit that the Church is truly a Pilgrim Church.
Tim Ward No it is clear and standard catholic teaching. Compassion and conversion are logical and rationale concepts. There is no serious dispute with them.
And regardless on whose translation one uses, there is no call to NOT remove the speck. Which is what meant, in this day, in how it is used.
The prohibition or revulsion to "judging" is often nowadays used to justify relativism. Christ did not come to justify sinfulness or to make people feel better about their lives, rather it is a call to holiness. Benedict Emeritus XVI book "The Light of the World" is instructive here.
There are no hyenas in South America.
Well since he doesn't believe in superstition I would say no
I dont think Peter Keeft goes far enough in much of this. He defends the tradition of the church but he seems limited by his neo-conservative sensibilities as far as explanations go. So much of what he says here would have seemed perfect 8 years ago when he gave this lecture, but it seems to me that the LGBT activists have played their true hand by this point in time and the moderate "love the sinner, hate the sin" sort of response has proben to be far too weak a response to actually accomplish anything with these people. Tolerance is not and never has been a christian virtue and it has clearly gotten us into quite a mess.
Personally 3:20 I've thought of it as the reverse. That the heart is right-wing and the head left-wing. The left being the side that sees the world through a more cynical lense of power structures and competing interests and the right seeing things through a lense of romantic narratives. Though I think he may be talking about the compassion associated with liberals. I suppose I may be thinking more of the far left and far right than what he's saying.
I agree with Kreeft on so many things, it upsets me that he has a downer on homosexuality and seemingly the term 'ferminist' (NOTE; he is all for male/female equality just...well, yeah, I don't understand quite either...). Outside of CS Lewis, Kreeft was the major force behind my conversion to Christianity. I, thereby, find it disturbing that there are things such a wise/good man can say that sit utterly cold with me.
God has identified Himself as a He. Our Lord also said that no one knows the Father but the Son. The Triune God has identified Himself as a He. Do not worry it has been taken care of - He said He is a He. Ps There are no jews in the Bible but a people that are called Judeans. And there are 2 different people - Jews who adopted the religion and the Judeans from Judea.
Lol😅😂🎉❤
To be Catholic we just have to be baptized, no?
No
Mr Escoto sir, you can neither write decent sentences or think straight, qualities which go naturally together. You state that I am woefully in error but make no attempt to enlighten on exactly what these errors are. Or indeed put it on paper what it is you do think, if indeed you do think. Even dog Jack thinks you are a twerp
Utterly inane. This guy would make an interesting psychological study about how bizarre religious commitments derange the mind. Is there any superstition from the last 2000 years that this guy doesn't believe?
I think Kreeft is saying, God is BS but talking about him pays the bills.
Typical mindless, dumb comment I've come to expect.
Said the man that believes in fairytales.
+ophirdog again... Standard, thoughtless comment. You're doing both your brain and heart a wild disservice.
Kreeft is a great Tomist and a good philosopher but his ignorance of Islam is astonishing. Also, 30 minutes into his speech on homosexuality he says he's not an expert in homosexuality (not by experience of course).
His ignorance of how Muslims will take his faint praise as evidence of him being "about to revert", or a "secret revert" or as being a bottomless source providing soundbites to use to bolster lslamic apologetics!
He does not understand the current lslamic mindset, irl, and that's dangerous. Ivory towers can become Peel Towers for Catholic Academics leaving the rest of us to the raiders whims.
In one of his more recent talks he said whichever of the 2 belief system will "produce the most saints" will "win".
I can't even begin to say how Jihadi an idea that is ( the most), and also secular (win)
He should stick his speciality, Theology, and stay out of worldly affairs.
His attitude is a throwback to Orientalist, he doesn't mention or romanticise and admire US religions like 7DA or LDS only the exotic other.
Sex is demonic? Really? Now I see why Peter Kreeft appeals to you.
All of these ideas you can find in Platonism without the useless mythology behind it. Are we to believe christians have the best morality? The Bible by itself is not enough authority. I would rather read Plotinus than listen the now distorted teachings of Jesus.
Leave the homosexuals be, they can also achieve a higher love just as much they can strive for carnal love just like heterosexuals do.
It isn't that complicated . It is deviant , unnatural and perverse . They can try to legalize it , rationalize it and spin it. It is " intrinsically disordered. No amount of " love" can change that . I can " love " a murderer . Doesn't change what he or she is .
Most homosexuals that become "straight" regret it deeply . Most homosexuals don't define themselves by their 'sin' anymore tgan heterosexuals do and the burden of proof is always on the accuser, not the accused. So many flaws in his logic and his heart. Shame, i liked him
Gay Pride passed you right by then?
Homosexuality used to be one of the fetishes of the jaded and the semi potent, relying on transgression, as the primary orientation, as like pederasty. Throughout 99.9999r. % of human history no less.
Study English history, "the ingle" and current events "the bachi boy," then leave an informed comment.
@@Blissblizzard . A "fetish" ? semi-potent? the "bachi" boy? What does any of that have to do with homosexuality? Same sex attraction is a biological fact , not a hobby. You can be a homosexual and never have sex, or have only sex with a partner, or with many. Homosexuals and heterosexual all have "fetishes" , whether you are "jaded", "semi-potent" or working hard and poor. I guess if you are rich and bored you can indulge any vices you want but the desire comes before the boredom. Study reality.