Prins August: Oldest operable locomotive in the world
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- čas přidán 20. 10. 2021
- Built in Gorton, Manchester, in 1856 for the Royal Swedish Railways, "Prins August" is today the oldest operable steam locomotive in original condition in the world. Named after the youngest son of King Oscar I of Sweden, she is pehaps the origin of the Swedish expression "as dumb as a train". After a working life of 50 years, "Prins August" entered preservation in 1906 and was restored in 1956.
Music: Aria for Strings from Concerto Grossi No. 14, G F Handel, played by Anthony Dawson
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its very interesting because in your Beyer Peacock video, you mentioned Charles Beyer did not marry, and at the time i thought to myself "Thats a bit odd, but not uncommon." In this video it clicked I was like "Ohhhh yeah, that would make a lot of sense."
I see. He was one of those "confirmed bachelors", if you catch my drift.
@@retrogamelover2012 Oh yes, we understand. He was free. '
'I'm free''.
I'd seen footage of this particular beauty before, so it's very nice to see her covered. Thank you for showing her to us!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I hawe seen her (and actualy touched her as well with my hands, however i don't know if one still are alloved to do so, but whan i was younger many parts of the exhibision where open so one could explore the locomotives) in the museum many years ago, the railroad museum is located in the city named Gävle.
There are a lot more to see there in an autentic environment so i highly recommend several houers staying there if one are as interested as i where.
(Unfortunatly we are normaly notoriously bad at preserving our history here compared to Britain, but this is one exception)
Very nice looking locomotive, 2-4-0 is an attractive configuration. It seems like Prins August has outlived his brothers and had the last laugh 😊
Always a pleasure to hear you playing church organ in the background 👍
Very impressive engine, and absolutely stellar job to everybody who keept this engine running for as much as she did
Locomotives are nice and lovely and important and all those good things but have you considered expanding out to do some episodes on things like the oldest surving carriages or early wagons, brake vans etc. you have brushed on the topic with the replica coaches behind rocket and such but I'm sure there's a great deal of early rolling stock out there that is just as interesting as the locos
That's the plan! Such as a visit to the Vintage Carriage Trust at Ingrow or Embsay.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory tasty, if i could give you infinite funds a series of you nipping to railways and museums to explain to us the finer points of driving locos from the early days would be fun, show us how the job its self evolves over time along with the locos
@@HamStrains Id love to be able to do that, and with sufficient funding want the channel to evolve in that direction. I've done a video on the 1870s/1880s Knotty Coaches at Foxfield. I may take a look at their First Class Saloon, but its finding other lines with early stock.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory cheat a little and extens outwards to oldish carriages that hold neat positions that tell stories related to early railways. The duke of Sutherland's private coaches for example? He has to be one of the last well to do types with a private train which I'm sure there were many more of that could be mentioned from the early days while examining his not early but certainly nice carriage and loco. Lots of ways to tie slightly later stuff into stories of the early railways that we can't necessarily tell via objects of that time surviving but practices surviving.
Again a very pleasant looking engine, all plain and purposeful. Even more pleasing that it’s still capable of its purpose, at such an age!
I think the connection between the expression/saying and this locomotive is considered very weak indeed, nowadays. If I recall correctly, the expression can’t be traced to earlier than the 1920’s, at which time both Prince (d. 1873) and locomotive was resting in peace. But a nice story anyway, and a rather mysterious saying. I remember it still being used in my childhood.
Nice music
Great video and a lovely engine nice to hear the organ music.
Excellent production as always, and an engine I've seen in steam on a few occasions! The stylish chap on the footplate is Thomas Larsson, a very competent driver of old August indeed!
Do you consider doing the two BP locos Göta and Jernsida next?
Megaprops for pronouncing the names correctly, most english speakers can't do the umlauts.
I'm on those two next! And then moving on to the Beyer Peacocks in Norway. Gosh I'm flattered. I had a bit of help in my pronounciation, but remembering my A grade school boy German also helped. I really want to visit the museum at Gavle, and the country in general.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory That sounds lovely, I'll look forward to them! I'm part norwegian so those will definately be of interest to see.
I certainly hope the NRM in Gävle will be done with its extensive renovation by the time you make your way here, a bit of bureaucratic kerfuffle and a pesky virus have hampered its progress.
So glad you included the proverb, it's one of my favorite stories to tell! I'm not very fun at parties...
Very interesting. Here in Graz we have the GKB 671 of 1860 which "never went out of service except for periods of overhaul". It has been rebuilt numerous times though and is currently running with a boiler built new according to the original drawings. So while it might be the locomotive with most service years (to be confirmed), I didn't know of Prins August.
Soundmixing comment: Could you please reduce the volume of the background music in future videos, the narration would be easier to understand. Thank you.
I’m hoping one day you could do an episode of an Italian steam locomotive. They are very interesting and have unique history.
Almost as old as my sewing machine....which is still in perfect working order
Fun facts, looking forward to your next episode, nice music.
That's a beauty! Thanks for such an informative post...
Glad you enjoyed it!
Always good to see engines from my part of the world. Beyer-Peacock, Vulcan Foundry and Crewe are well within my area, and I live only half a mile from where Sans Pareil spent most of its working life. Those first two companies seem to have supplied locos to most of the world.
Only locomotive older that could compete is B&O 1, John Quincy Adams which is virtually original less the paint and bearings. However getting the museum who owns it to allow such is questionable
William Mason, oldest operable loco in the Western Hemisphere, was built in 1845. It last operated in 2014.
@@NoaZeevi 1855 I believe
India's Fairy Queen: Am I a joke to you?
A similar Beyer Peacock locomotive, but of an improved type from 1865 is preserved in the Netherlands.
It was a bit larger and heavier and a top speed of 80km/h, but the same 2-4-0 wheel configuration and overall shape.
It's SS No.13 and is not in operational condition despite having got a new boiler in preservation.
Yes indeed, a very similar design. When I can I want to visit that Museum and do a video or two on the locomtoives there.
I think the Netherlands SS 13 is an inside cylinder design which looks quite similar to some they built for the West Midland Railway in 1862.
@@mikebrown3772 it is. But BP also built outside cylinder 2-4-0s for the Netherlands as well. The West Midland Railway design was a curious beast with outside frame for the leading wheel and inside for the driving wheels. In itself based on the standard BP 2-4-0 which led to the Beattie Well Tank and Prins August and her sisters. They produced a standard design, with a standard user friendly cab layout, using standardised parts which could be tweaked for local use. Way ahead of people like Churchward or even R A Riddles.
nice video, altho sadly ive never seen her in steam but i have seen her in the museum on several time's ive visited
thanks for this. I acually own one of those beyer peacock donkey pumps, still looking for more information..
Very cool
In all his Glory
Thank you very much - the extended discussions below on Baldwin, Norris, Dripps and co are every bit as interesting and valuable as the actual video.
Regarding interest in the very early locomotives, I picked up a curious little book the other day in the society shop at Bewdley SVR. A very early Oakwood Press paperback, dated 1946, "The Early History of the Railway Locomotive - 1804 - 1879" by R W Kidner; I don't know if you know it? It is quite an informative little book, with 82 line drawings by the author of a number of locomotives. Some you've covered in films, others I've never even heard of before.
An eight wheel coupled engine, a sort of bigger 'Puffing Billy' ascribed to both Hedley and another engineer named Chapman, is one, Hackworth's 'Globe' for the S&D another, and a weird and wonderful L&M machine - a 2-2-0 by someone named Bowman. Put simply, it had a return flue boiler, with both firebox and smokebox at the rear end and a pair of vertical cylinders driving a jackshaft at the front. The outside rods drove driving wheels sited under the smokebox, but ahead of the firebox. Now a firm named Bowman, from somewhere up that way, used to make toy steam engines with oscillating cylinders back in the 1930's. I wonder if there is any connection?
I remember reading in an old Model Railways that at one time Puffing Billy was rebuilt as a rigid 8 driver engine. Was the writer confusing it with the bigger Hedley / Chapman engine, or did that rebuild really happen? There are some minor errors in Kidner's book obviously - he didn't have easy access to as much information as we do now, but I'm glad it is now on my bookshelf, and not languishing forgotten in the bargain leftovers rack.
PS Where is the Bury type engine, the 'Rocket', which briefly shows up in this video? Is it that all but forgotten little engine from somewhere up Maine or New England way?
Hello John, Thanks for your comment. Puffing Billy, Wylam Dilly and Lady Mary at the Wylam Colliery, built by William Hedley were all initially built in 1814 as four wheels. But they were too heavy and damaged the brittle track. So they were rebuilt as eight wheelers around 1816 to lower their axle weight so that they didn't break the cast iron rails. The wheels were mounted as two articulated four-wheel bogeys. The bogey was invented and patented by William Chapman in 1812. At this point in their history they had smooth (flangeless) wheels as they had been built for a plateway. Around 1828-1830 the Wylam Waggonway was rebuilt with edge rails. So Puffing Billy and Wylam Dilly were rebuilt with new flanged wheels and rebuilt back to four wheelers as the new wrought iron rail was much stronger than the cast.
Regarding Chapman, as I note in my book "Before Rocket" there are a lot of similarities between Hedley's engines at Wylam and Chapman's locomotives elsewhere. Hedley and Chapman being in dispute at the time.
www.amazon.co.uk/Before-Rocket-Steam-Locomotive-1829/dp/1911658255
Regarding the "Bowman" locomotive, that was the "Manchester" built by Galloway, Bowman & Glasgow of Manchester. See my book "Locomotives of the Liverpool & Manchester Railway" for more, or check out my Spotlight video: czcams.com/video/-OHE_9yDPuk/video.html
The Bury Locomotive "Rocket" is in the United States on display in Philadelphia. Its present appearance being the subject of a major "restoration" at the end of the C19th.
The book you've picked up sounds pretty old and out of date, sadly as there's been a considerable amount of research into early railways since 1946, in fact in the lest twenty years thanks to the series of International Early Railways Conferences and indeed the Early Mainline Railway Conferences as well. So too the Early Railways caucus of the Railway & Canal Historical Society.
Hope this helps!
What an elegant design and what an achievement to keep her as original as possible. "As Dumb As A Train" - LOL. Poor train .... that's not very nice.
Hmm, I thought the 1831 John Bull was the oldest operable locomotive...
"It was operated for the first time on September 15, 1831, and became the oldest operable steam locomotive in the world when the Smithsonian Institution ran it under its own steam in 1981."
It hasn't run since, however.
The fact its the only swedish engine that anyone made just makes me happy
Always amazes me that people did not worry about covering the workers. Those fancy cars with the chaffeur up front exposed to the weather. And some of those otherwise enclosed passenger aircraft where the pilots sat in open cockpits. Maybe from the coaching days...Though even then, they could have put a hood over the hansom cab driver....
There's a hilarious elephant in the room!
Pardon me Anthony but could you do a video on the neilson boxs tanks?
Naturally the oldest operable steam locomotive in the world was built in Britain 😎
What about the john bull locomotive built in 1831 ? The Smithsonian institution has a video of it running
Føwler's Ghøst, Swedish Editiøn ø ma gøt :0
There's no doubt that the LNWR had a long set of history to it
In Austria we have the LICAON from 1851 operable.
Thanks from Stockholm for another video with “Swedish connection”.
My pleasure! I really want to visit the museum at Gavle. And the country in general.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory the museum in Gävle is closed until the summer of 2023 due renovation and new owner. It is managed by the Swedish maritime museums by some reason. I am embarrassed to admit I have been the the rather new railway museum in Tokyo (hardly any information in English) and I have been to the French in Mulhouse but never to Gävle less than 100 miles away and now when I have time and as retired it’s closed for a long time. 😢 My best train experience in Sweden was driving a rälsbuss once in Växjö on the narrow gauge railway Västervik Hultsfred Växjö railway.
@@bokhans Yes, I am aware that the Gavle museum is closed. It's on my "to do" list, along with Cite du Train at Mulhouse. The railsbuss expderience sounds interesting :-)
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory forgot my 6 month taking pictures of Sri Lanka railway. 6500 digital pictures. Got the blessing of MD or what ever his title was, the top man to do everything I wanted and visit everything and everywhere. If I wanted access I just told people to call the boss and ask and he always said yes to my request for access. Became friend with the top man for all kinds of engineering also. Been travelling on every type of engine in operation. I visited everything from ticket printing to the huge works shops and the scrapping place. One of my longest and best holidays ever.
@@bokhans That sounds simply incredible. Certainly a once in a lifetime, never to be repeated holiday! wow!
Geez that thing is OLD
It beats the swiss Engerth Type "Genf" by one year!
The John Bull you have pictured is a Replica in the Railroad Museum of PA. The real John Bull is in the Smithsonian and looks nothing like this one. It's much simpler whereas the replica was how it looked later.
I know. that's because I have photographs from the B&O Roundhouse and none from the Smithsonian. The replica represents the locomotive at the end of its working life, whereas the original locomotive was severely messed around with in the 1890s to try and "restore" it to its original appearance. It couldn't possible do so. The original tender was also sadly lost due to it sitting outside a University for many years in open storage. All very sad really.
btw, what song was this video put to? :)
Thumbs up but I wouldn't stand to close to this thing.
Anthony do you have knowledge of a type of box tank engine on what Neil from the Railway series was based on?
A Neilson & Co. "Box tank" Big square saddle tank, not the most attractive of prototypes. twitter.com/Ranaroth2/status/1226538480685195270/photo/2
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory That could be another idea for a video.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory better still, how about one of the single cylinder (!) Neilson box tanks. That's totally different!
That's a good-looking engine! Big and "All-business!" if you get my meaning.
And don't forget the "General" of American Civil War fame, it was built in 1855 and restored and operated during the Civil War Centennial in the 1960's and run extensively. It hasn't been run since however.
A word on John Ericsson: He designed and built the USS Monitor for the US Navy during the Civil War, the first warship with a revolving gun turret. Others would follow.
Yes, I know all about Ericsson, but it is not true Monitor was the first warship with a revolving turret. In fact one had been built earlier in Britain. Monitor's turret design was overcomplicated (classic Ericsson) and bizarrely was what is termed an "active Turret" i.e. it was constantly revolving, so that the gunners had to fire on the fly rather than the turret being aimed at the target. For more on Ericsson see my video on Novelty. czcams.com/video/-crxi1ZjFO4/video.html
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory Thanks for that link to the "Novelty" video! Very intersting indeed, and something we don't hear much about this side of the pond. I've heard of the Rainhill Trials but not many details.
As far as the "Active Turret" that doesn't match what I've read about the battle. According to what I've read the turret control malfunctioned and the crew couldn't stop the rotation, so yes indeed they had to fire on the fly when the guns bore on the CSS Virginia. The turret controls were most likely as you said, classic Ericsson over-engineering. Well, as far as over-engineering is concerned he wasn't the first and he's certainly not the last!
Thanks again!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Having written a biography of Ercisson for my book "Rainhill Men", I don't think John Ericsson was a terribly nice man. He seems to have been arrogant; thought himself the cleverest man in the room and that just because an existing idea or technology was tried and tested and worked, that meant he wouldn't do it. His three locomotive designs - Novelty; William IV & Queen Adelaide; and his "Caloric" (i.e. hot air) locomotive, didn't work. He became obsessed with hot air engines.
The naval gun turret; Captain Coles got their first in Britain in 1859. In his design the weight of the turret was taken on a turret ring and a rollers and bearings. It was always ready for action. In contrast, the Ericsson turret was supported on a single central spindle and had to be jacked up to enable it to go into action, as to make the turret design water tight it when under way it was lowered onto a brass seating ring(which wasnt very watertight) which was set into the deck. Being mounted on a central 9inch iron spindle meant that it was easy to knock the turret out of action as any transmitted shock from a shot hitting the turret could easily bend or break it and any debris could get between the bottom of the turret and the deck jamming it. With a Coles turret, running on a turret ring with rollers and bearings, both those problems were obviated. Monitor's turret was also needed to rotate every time powder and shot was brought up through a single, off-set hatch in the turret floor which had to be aligned with a corresponding hatch in the hull floor. On the Coles turret everything was passed up through a central hatch, impossible with the Ericsson design due to the bloomin' great spindle. Everything I've read about the turret design in Europe was that it became an "Active" turret because it was just easier if you missed to reload and wait for the turret to come back around on target rather than stopping and reversing the steam engine which powered the turret, engaging the reversing gear and then turning the weight of the turret back around.
The first turreted Warship was HMS Trusty commissioned in 1861: the turret was not a new idea with Monitor. The other problem with the Monitor's turret was that no one could see out unelss the guns were run out. Heavy armoured shutters automatically came down over the gun ports when the guns were run into the turret. It was the first to see action but not the first with a turret. Yet the myth is that it was the first turret. Nope.
Ericssons engineering was overcomplicated and not user friendly. No doubt he spent a lot of time designing these things, but the proof of a good engineer is one who can design and build something which works, is user friendly and isn't a maintenance nightmare. I think when he was in Britain he needed John Braithwaite to temper him. When let off his leash, so to speak, he got carried away with his overcomplicated flights of fancy.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory Well, thanks for all that good information Mr. Dawson, all things I didn't know. As they say, it's a wasted day if you don't learn something new!
John Ericsson sounds like a 19th Century Steve Jobs, very inventive but not a nice man either.
I knew a guy who had a friend who worked for Apple. Part of their new employee orientation was how to deal with Steve Jobs if you encountered him. In a nutshell, you didn't, the advice was stay away from him!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 My pleasure! I think most/all of the great 19th Century engineers were.....one offs, unique, odd. George Stephenson was ruthlessly ambitious; very good at using people and excellent at self-promotion. Mind you a lot of that came from grooming by his employers who also manipulated his image. Robert Stephenson I'm sure was depressive and had borderline personality disorder and I honestly cant find a personality or really separate him from his father. Then again having grown up with such a forceful personality as George, I'm honestly not surprised. Brunel, like Ericsson, did things his own way, often I think perversely so. Brunel was out to show he was just as good as the British; had the whole "bantom cock" syndrome going on (he was only quite short); and did things his way or not at all for good or for bad. Like Robert Stephenson an absolute workaholic. Joseph Locke another workaholic but a bit more balanced; again worked himself to death. Its as if they were running away from inner demons by working so hard. Throwing their life and soul into their work, losing themselves completely in it. Robert Stephenson and Brunel both turned to drugs as well. Somethnig must have been eating them up inside. And in the USA, people like Ross Winans (distinctly odd); Robert Stevens, or Isaac Dripps. Matthias Baldwin comes accross as a decent chap.
The last time the John bull operated was in 1999.
And if the original boiler has been replaced the locomotive is not truly original. It's like the woodsman's ax, the handle has been replaced multiple times and head just as many times........but it's original. 😆
The 1939 replica was operated in 1999. The original engine in the Smithsonian hasn't been under steam since 1981
Usually a locomotives "existence" is based on its frame, and whether or not the frame has been replaced. Boilers were consisdered to be replaceable. So as the Museum says, replacing the later boiler with an original Beyer Peacock from the 1850s is exactly what the engineers would have done when "Prins August" was in operation (1856-1906). The fact they were able to use an original boiler is amazing. It means "Prins Augsut" is as she left Gorton in 1856. Just wonderful.
I have never seen the picture of it with the other chimney before, I like the turbine arresters but it didn't fit there
"All original OEM parts, unlike the Flying Scotsman which is more like Triggers broom 😆
Fairy Queen in India's a year older or has she since stopped running?
It has been rebuilt so many times there's not many original parts left
Building on the topic of oldest operable locomotives, how about you cover John Bull?
Do a video on the top 10 or 20 oldest locomotives ever to run, with John Bull as #1 and Lion as #2 and so on & so forth.
I suppose it depends when that video is set and the time frame as when Lion was restored to steam in 1930 is was the oldest operable locomotive in the world. John Bull was restored to steam only in the 1980s. There is also a strong likelihood that Lion was still the oldest operable in 1980 as it steamed before John Bull did. Of course Lion is no longer in operable condition. I'm not sure John Bull is either as it hasn't operated in forty years and thanks to more enlightened curatorial policies, hopefully won't be "restored" to operational condition.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory I do believe it is still in operable condition, as I believe that’s one of the policies concerning some of the on display vehicles of the Smithsonian Institution. Oh, and another good video idea would be Fairy Queen over in India
looks very similar to furness 20 in looks
I don't understand why they downgraded the chimney to the original design.
Wait is this the class of locomotive what falled from window?
Hope this answers your question: czcams.com/video/WOOXpUiK0OU/video.html
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory thx :)
'Original' condition - so no new boiler in all that time?
looks a bit like a BT well tank
Same builder, same basic design.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory the man himself replied
I thought the Indian Railways 1855 Fairy Queen was the oldest passenger loco working?
It's not in original condition, unlike "Prins August" which is.
Isn’t the oldest operable loco John Bull, built in 1831?
And why did you use an image of the replica from 1931, and not the original.
John Bull isn't in original condition whereas Prins August is. I also don't have a picture of the original having never been to the Smithsonian.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory What isn’t original, besides the funnel and tender?
But the photo thing makes a lot of sense! Did royalty-free images not exist?
@@NoaZeevi On John Bull, the smokebox, chimney, cylinders, wheels, the crank axle, peculiar leading wheels/cow catcher, are not original. The original valve gear was curiously modified. The only part of the locomotive perhaps to be 1831 are the frames and maybe the boiler barrel. The rest of it is either in-service replacement or the product of a later C19th restoration e.g. the chimney and loss of the tender. It doesn't retain much material from 1831 and certainly does not retain it's 1831 appearance or character.
🇸🇪
Did I understand right, “dumb as a train”
yes. As dumb as a train.
Not me being gay and stumbling on a slightly gay train video😂
Gay steampunk romance and Swedish idioms. Who would have thunk?! Next up: A Mars rocket named "Eric Trump!"