Could Protests Bring Down Spain’s New Government?
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Having secured the backing of Catalan separatists to become Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez is facing fierce opposition and protests to his new proposed amnesty law. So in this video, we'll explain this deal and why things will only get harder for Sanchez.
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1 - www.reuters.com/world/europe/...
2 - www.euractiv.com/section/elec...
3 - www.politico.eu/article/spain...
4 - www.theguardian.com/world/202...
5 - www.reuters.com/world/europe/...
6 - www.theguardian.com/world/202...
7 - www.euractiv.com/section/poli...
8 - www.theguardian.com/world/202...
9 - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish...
10 - www.eldiario.es/politica/sali...
11 - www.euractiv.com/section/poli...
It’s important to remark that Sanchez was asked straightforwardly if he would support amnesty before the election and he said it would be unconstitutional, and then just did it anyway
All politicians… ALL of them… do the same, they say something in campaign but when they are in power, they do the opposite. So what is the surprise in it? 🤷🏽♂️
also worth reminding the PP candidate repeatedly said in Parliament he's not the PM because he doesn't want to be, so if it's so, let the other rule.
that's called politics
also vox and pp supporters should not be criticizing sanchez knowing that they pretty much proposed the basque independentists
@@blahajlucie it is not. it is lying and manipulating people. disgusting that you try to defend this psychopath.
The most important thing that is not mentioned in the video is the socialist party declared before and during the elections that the amnesty was out the table, unconstitutional and couldn't be done within the law. Then, "magically", after the results, it's ok and what it needs to be done for the social harmony instead of admiting they're only doing it because they needed the votes to remain in power. That's what united Spaniards and motivated the massive protests.
If these Spanish fascists are listened to Spain should be chucked out of the EU
These falangista must be consigned to history
That is an important point. The law forbidding regions to have referrendums on indepnedence is absurd, should have gone with Franco. I understand if many get so upset over saying "not X" before elections then after elecetion day doing ... "X".
And left-wingers all around Europe are applauding this.
If it had been a right-winger who sold pardons to stay in power, the left wing would have called it fascism.
@@PMMagro No es absurdo que un país defienda su integridad territorial. Lo absurdo es precisamente lo contrario.
The socialists were hypocritical for sure but that didn't unite Spaniards in the protests, with chants against the constitution, francoist chants and people saying the king was a free mason I would say only a specific group of Spaniards protested
You should mention that Sanchez’s election manifesto stated that amnesty and concessions to separatists would never happen. There are multiple instances on him and his deputees stating amnesty is illegal and inconstutional. Also, the previous amnesty you’re refering to is pre-constitutional and therefore no longer a legal option. And that himself and his industry minister acknowledge they woul not have done this if not for those 7 vots.
People can change their opinions over time. One day you might think a certain way, and the next day you might change your mind. By the way, changing your opinions is not illegal.
@@seikou850It isnt changing opinions it is LIEING and LIEING to the people that voted you should be ilegal
Why are so many people making this point in the comments. Parties changing there policy stances are common in collation governments. In fact they are necessary. You can argue that they should not have conceded on this policy, and ultimately it is up the supreme courts to decide if it is unconstitutional.
Cambiar de opinión esta genial, pero lo q antes era ilegal no pasa a ser legal solo por que se cambie de opinión. Las opiniones cambian, la Constitución no. Es patético ver como intentáis defender al Psoe cuando sabéis que solo lo hacen por mantenerse en el poder. Hoy mismo Oscar Puente ha dicho en televisión española que si no hubiesen necesitado los votos no hubiese habido amnistía. Dais mucha pena y asco, os mienten a la cara y aunque no os lo creáis, lo aceptáis y sonreís como ovejas.
Yes, its obvious that you can change your opinion of course, we are human after all. The one thing that’s unacceptable is to run on a platform that says no to amnesty on day 1 and yes on day 2. How would you feel about your taxes if it was a 40% increase from election day ro the next? The vote still holds and the government is still “fair”!
This is a great bird´s eye view of the political situation in Spain. Of course, one could delve deeper into the other issues that go along with this, but that would take more than 10 minutes. Great job!
Yeap. As an Spanish person, It was shocking for me to watch an unbiased report on the situation, since all news stations in Spain are extremely partisan.
The main problem with the amnisty deal is that PSOE had clearly stated before the elections that they would not do it as it was unconstitutional. And after the elections, they just go and do it, clearly lying to voters.
No.
They said they wouldn't do it. Nothing about "inconstitutionality". The right-wing is the only one claiming "inconstitutionality".
And the people protesting on the streets are all right-wing and far-right people. Not their voters.
@@parametr look at most of the comments they have made in 2021 and 2022. They have stated múltiple times It would be illegal.
@@luisinncd who are you referring to with "they"?
certainly not psoe, podemos/sumar, or any other party except pp/vox.
if you are convinced about it, could you share a link to one of those "comments"?
Why don't you let the Constitutional Court decide whether something is constitutional or not? Once it's approved. It's simple.
@@parametrYou are speaking without any knowledge, as usually happens under internet anonymity. The current government leaders actually said during years all the way down to 23' summer the amnesty was unconstitutional and a clear intermission in the judiciary power. Also, the vast majority of protesters were made up of common people mostly from middle class by the hundreds of thousands, with some hundreds far right rioters to finish the day with violence, as usually happens in any kind of protest. I would say go and get the information yourself but I guess you already know these facts and your only goal is to misinform here.
As a Galician, I have to say I liked how you've handled this matter. And loved hearing say Galicia, pronouncing the ''c'' Thanks for all guys.
I noticed that most British people pronounce Spanish words with the C and Z from Spain.
@@Ama94947 I live in Liverpool and never ever heard that. It's always sssss lol
Spains problem is that it has a constitution that doesnt know what it wants to be, spain is administrated like a federation but officially is a unitary state, it has a monarchy that is only there for tradition with 0 power, they recognizate some autonomous comunites, basically USA states, as nationalities different from spain but it also says everyone must identify as spanish.
The constitution was set up after the death of franco as a compromise but it has became a tabu topic to change it while everyone underdtands it at the end of its live cycle.
Also it has fixed 0 of spains problems, the north is still much richer than the south, independists forces still can have tge goverment hostage and basque and catalans still want out
The north is much richer than the south because of simple geographics... It borders France and is the land entry point for Europe.
@@funnelhacking no, they have all the industry and that makes them really rich
And the f***ing general believe that the Constitution is a sacramental law and that it was created by a consensus that doesn't recognize either the people killed during the civil war and a big part of population that actually exited the country during the dictatorship.
@@jonC1208 because... The logistics make sense for them to be located there with the land entry point to France. Do more business with Portugal, US, Mediterranean countries and maybe it makes more sense for south , but the south already doesn't make sense for business and population growth with increasing droughts and food shortages from said droughts. You're not going to want to put data centers in a section of a country that is a furnace. Northern European countries are more productive generally also because cooler temperatures result in more productive workers. Likewise North of Spain is cooler.
@@funnelhacking those regions since the 19th century has been the rich industrial areas, mainly because local elites decided that instead of picjeting profits they would reinvest them into more industry, basques with iron and heavy industry while catalans with textile industry
The agreement also includes the concept of "Lawfare", and introduces a comittee where politicians would adminish judges for judging them.
The Socialists themselves said this was unconstitutional a million times just weeks before.
PSOE has already clarified that the Lawfare part of the agreement is limited to Congress investigations around the Pegasus spionage and the political use of police to attack independentists and Podemos during the M.Rajoy government. The amnisty law states nothing about lawfare, in fact, it clearly states that the law for the independentist movement has always been applied according to the Constitution. And guess what: Junts and ERC will approve such a law acknowleding that they commited crimes and that the only way to do politics in Spain is according to the Constitution.
It is quite funny hearing judges and prosecutors claiming against the use of the word "lawfare" when there is a judge in Spain that has had the best positions in the judge career (liason with France and Italy, with all expenses covered for many years living in Paris and Rome and doing literally nothing) thanks to PP and now is applying a very biassed law to try to prosecute left wing and independentitst politicians without any solid evidence while ignoring all the known evidence to protect PP from their corruption trials...
@@danielalvarezberdugo1622Liar...
If by "politicians" you mean the duly elected representatives of the people, yes.
@@roberto8650 that is the definition of politician, yes, and are kept separate from the judicature for a reason.
@@Nordzumu when a judge is asking a widow to declare in a trial to provide """""evidence"""""" that her husband died from an infarction due to independentist riots, MAYBE, a commission to investigate whether that judge is not actually impartial isn't so crazy. Specially when the constitutionally appointed institution that should do that job has been expired for 5 years because the autonominated "constitutionalists" are not fulfilling their constitutional obligation to renew that institution
An independence vote is impossible, you'd need 2/3 of the chambers of the legislative and a referendum to ratify a new constitution. If they ask for an independence referendum to be able to pass things on the legislature, this government is dead on arrival and are causing all this turmoil for nothing, just a handful of months more in government.
They will call the referendum in other way, and It will be approved. The government has the control of the constitutional tribunal. It will be constitutional what they will say it is, as is happening with the amnisty. What only matters is the narrative, the counterweights are completely broken, I am afraid. The only real limitation is the conscience
of a man who has not.
Waiting for ur analysis of dutch election
It's fucked
The dutch people have woken up
@@MrSemIsAwesomeIts not.
@@JOKERATM Sonnenrad in profile pic -> Hitler particles detected -> opinion discarded
@@MrSemIsAwesome So you don't have arguments to reply to my comment and just call me a nazi? typical
It probably won’t bring him down, but Sanchez faces two problems in the long term.
First, how long does this fractured coalition last? One can take a look at Spain in the past ten years. If I remember correctly, five elections in nine years? Second, Sanchez managed to become PM again, but what about the future of PSOE and Spain? One can take a look at the Netherlands as a great example……
Great comment .. Sanchez appears to be acting in Sanchez's best interests and nothing else ..
Some of those elections were held months apart with years between terms. Take that into account.
Spain faces loooots of long-term problems, the territorial conflict being one that stems from two centuries ago, and which both PP and PSOE have only exacerbated. Saying it comes from Sánchez alone is just mimicking PP's feeble discourse. Spain has had so many elections because bipartisanship broke down relatively recently and neither voters nor the parties (no matter how "constitutionalist") seem to understand how a parlamentary democracy works. Hence leading among other phenomenons to an isolated right in the institutions
@@armintargaryen9216thank u for explaining this, it's not as black or white as ppl point it out to be, I for example believe, had the PP government not stomped down so heavily on a referedum whose result didnt even matter bc it was illegal, then many catalonians would've not supported independence afterwards, and would not be as big of a concern today, I have a catalonian friend, who explained that many of those catalonians who wanted to remain in Spain, changed their thought after the voting, bc of how repressing the police were, unjustified charges, excess of force etc.
The Dutch voting in a fascist is a disgrace, especially since they killed 75% of their jewish population during ww2 (the highest percentage in Europe)
If these Spanish fascists are listened to Spain should be chucked out of the EU
These falangista must be consigned to history
So, we're not talking about how Pedro Sanchez himself told (as part of the campaign) that amnesty and referendum's were out of the discussion because they were illegal?
This channel is rather left leaning
I know,@@dioniscaraus6124.
What I'm saying is not left or right leaning, is just ommiting an important part of the story that explains why many spanish (including many PSOE voters) are angry with the situation.
We may talk about hypocrisy in Spanish politics for days...
Remember when Rajoy said in campaign he'd lower taxes, then raised them, then laughed at it?
Remember when Aznar pacted with CiU and said he spoke Catalan privately? Cause now apparently only PSOE pacts with nationalists
Remember the blatant lies about the 11M authorship, also during campaign?
And basically since bipartisanship broke down every single party has claimed that they wouldn't pact with their block and then immediately proceed to do it. Not to excuse PSOE, but this is cultural and transversal.
this is a chanel that praises itself about being rigorous with the information they share, that's why I follow them@@armintargaryen9216
@@armintargaryen9216so, since other parties lied on the past, we have to just accept it and be OK with it?
2:52 just commenting to appreciate the pronunciation of Galicia there! I am not one of those angry people that gets mad when some foreigner pronounces a name differently on their language, but I do know how to appreciate when the effort to pronounce it as the natives is made. Cheers!
@@mickackerley7944 no lol
@@iTiago98 Just so you know, its easier to pronounce since there are several Galician regions in the world (afaik, the one in Spain and the one in Poland) plus historical administrative units
1:42 Key detail here. TLDR correctly labels the second block as "leftist-regionalist" BUT this is a very recent trend. While it's true that for some reason regionalism/separatism is seen as leftist or progressive in Spain, contrary to many other countries due to historical and cultural reasons, parties like Basque PNV or even the Catalan Nationalist CiU (that has changed name lots of times to become today's independentists) HAVE SWITCHED SIDES constantly, acting as traditional kingmaker parties.
This means that today, PP has left so many sources of support they could have used in the past. Mainly PNV, who are regarded as moderates and "sensible" (quite arguably, or course), and who don't want to be allied to VOX at all.
I can understand, and even sympathise, to the idea of avoiding regionalists/separatists. The key point I think many people mistake is that it is almost unfeasable today. It's not as if PP is unwillingly doing jacobin politics. They're just forced to because they've run out of allies. And the predominance of certain regions has been built on constant pacts with said regions and because the Constitution gave them enormous powers (such as education). The way PP acts as if Sánchez just made up the territorial issue yesterday is deceiving and unnverving
2:54 I'm no expert on the Canaries but that's a bit different. Regionalist governments tend to act as satellites of PP-PSOE when voting in Congress, same for Navarran UPN with PP
4:28 The Senate has just changed its logo lol
5:38 But the start of the Civil War wasn't a coup according to them, but a "National rising"...
6:00 I don't think there is anything wrong per se with the right calling on accountability over the amnesty. However Spanish democracy has beel called out (mostly wrongly in my opinion) for YEARS from multiple fronts because of its treatment of Catalonia. Aren't politics ironic?
6:14 Great point! Everyone seems to forget this. However, amnesties at the start of a democracy are different from others un an already formed one, that is supposed to have justice ruled only on the judiciary... Which leads us to the mass use of pardons, that imo isn't that different from amnesty and has been used and forgotten in Spain without further deals. Most infamously terrorist-anti-terrorist GAL. I wish I knew more about that era but yeah, kinda dark
6:52. Undeniable. PSOE's sudden change of discourse is shameful. Just say that it is a necesary concession lol. Simultaneously, there is no doubt that many protesters dislike the fact that conservatives lost government again and with all odds in their favour, rather than amnesty itself.
8:10 True again, but I fail to see this as a problem for Sánchez. Podemos, after being a worlwide influential phenomenon, is dying. And its last breaths are, imo, embarrassing even for its former suppoters. The fact that ultra-third wave feminist Irene Montero redacted a anti-sexual abuse Law that eventualy led to the early release of dozens of r*pists... Oof. Sumar is apparently doing well enough despite (or thanks to) Podemos' agony and Sánchez may even prefer having weak, divided allies.
Good video!
Very good comment. The leader of the PNV said it best Vox is an inhibitor of any alliences of the PP with independentists/regionalist parties.
The PP has a very bad (political) situation at hand they can pact with regionalist parties or Vox not both. The Psoe can make deals with sumar-podemos (or whatever arrasises from its corpse) and the regionalist parties at the same time. The Psoe can with their current 121 (mayority is 176) seats form a goverment, by joining sumar 31 and the regionalist 7+7+6+5+1+1=179. The PP has to get enough seats with vox or get up to 170 and make a deal with PNV or Juns.
@@spanishSpaniardExactly. And that's normal democracy. You don't get the votes, you lose. Whether we like the results of those pacts or not are another matter.
I'll add that there is a third option: the ominous, infamous GRAND COALITION that only seems to arise in everyone's minds when PSOE would be the minor party, not when PP would, for some reason xD (Also Germany is a political referent for PP when it serves their interests, these weird coalitions they have? Clearly a dictatorship thing)
@@armintargaryen9216 The dictatorship argument is nonsense thats true, Vox is very much exagerating. The amnensty laws does seem to a real erosion of judicial power, but that is something the constitutional court should decide.
The goverment formed by Sanchez is COMPLETLY legitimate he adquired a mayority in the congress. But if Sanchez plays a cynical game of politics where he breaks repeteadly held promises to maintain his goverment, instead of seeking other political allies or repeating elections thats not inviting any goodwill.
You are completly rigth in saying that any time the PP can get away with not supporting the Psoe they do not support them. The PP should have abstained in 2019 but they didn't.
I sound horribly cynical in this comment sorry if I sound rude its not my intention.
very very good comment and analysis
PP can't expect to make agreements with certain regions, because they mistreat these regions at every opportunity. PP requires everyone in Spain to conform to ONE IDEAL SPANISH IDENTITY that basically only exists in their minds. PP even voted to prohibit alternative language use in parliment and insist on teaching classic Spanish in every region's schools. That brought back too many memories of Franco's facist dictatorship, when alternate languages were totally prohibited, not to mention many other injustices, of which prohibiting alternate languages were nothing in comparison. PP is perfect for 48% of Spain. Problem is that, if they govern, they will only wind up governing one half of it because they will fuel the separatists to Demand Independence again and again and again. PP has a mental block in their DNA called FRANCO.
Protests haven't taken down the Israeli government after the fifth election ended with no clear winner and Netanyahu formed a government with small extreme right-winged parties that gave unprecedented power to the head of a party that won less than 8% of votes and had previously been convicted of terrorism.
I came from the future and you were right. In Spain it happened the same it did in Israel. The government is still there and I looks like it will complete its 4 years term. And about terrorists groups having political representation we also have that in Spain, one of the pro independence parties in the Basque region call bildu is part of the government coalition and it's leader was also the leader of the terrorist group eta.
They failed to mention how Sanchez and his ministers denied the possibility of amnesty. This was just 6 months ago
There are a couple of things that I would like to mention about this topic. The first thing it would be that there were more than 170.000 people in the protest that figure is not accurate. The second thing worth mentioning is that Pedro Sanchez and other members of the government said multiple times that an amnesty would be illegal and unconstitutional. After the voting took place they suddenly changed their view about that topic.
A llorar a otro sitio 😢
Aun estanos esperando a que el PP y los fachitas propongqn una solicion. Es muy facil ir de gallitos liandola todo e dia paralizando el pais dirante años... lo dificil es encontrar compromisos, acuerdos y reaolver problemas complejos. La Democracia PARLAMENTARIA se basa en eso, en la negociacion y los acuerdos, muchas veces nadie queda 100% contento, pero es lo que hay. Pareceis niños con pataletas.
I was there. There were a lot more than that and trusting goverment official numbers in a protest against them is such low level journalism that it hurts. Anyone who has walked from Alcalá to Gran Vía would know there were a lot more people there
If these Spanish fascists are listened to Spain should be chucked out of the EU
These falangista must be consigned to history
@@bfedezl2018 So who are we supposed to trust? A biased perspective from people who attended the march and have an incentive to believe that the turnout was as big as it could be? Or the government data, which also has a bias but is also an entity that can be held accountable and has an incentive to give a good enough estimate (since this is happening in a democratic country and not in Russia or something) and also has the resources to produce a good enough estimate. Im sorry, but unless some good third party investigation comes out that can provide another estimate, the highest level of evidence are the numbers provided by the government. I could be wrong ofcourse, if you have a better argument to make as to how much people actually attended the protests please throw ahead.
@@CompassionateCoos The ideal would be that you put the numbers of at least three given sources, the ones given by the government, the ones given by the march, and the ones given by a third party based on photos and some kind of scientific measurement. If these are too many numbers, I would just go with the latter.
Amazing work. I know you guys aren't Spanish, but still you managed to get an in-depth political analysis. Congrats!
"forming a government is the easy part, keeping it running may prove to be a whole lot harder" is basically a tldr of all of Spanish history.
The tldr of Spanish history also includes the military getting involved. We'd better hope it doesn't happen again.
Na, that fits better for the Italians
I like seeing you've been working and improving on the pronunciations.
I this video very informative and in line with the information available in Spanish media, although you didn't mention the economic side of the investiture pact.
Keep up!
Spanish here. It always surprises me how well informed this channel is about Spain.
They must have some infiltrated agent.
Even their pronunciation game is seriously good.
Ellos colonizaron la costa durante el verano. Especialmente en Catalonia y Costa Blanca.
@@peytondailey6108 Cataluña o Catalunya nen
We Brits don't just eat ham, egg and chips, drink too much Mahou and turn into lobsters in Spain, some of us are actually interested in the country!)))
But yes it's a good summary of events by the guys. But I think they missed the part about taxes and Catalonia not having to pay into the national system. I think this could seriously undermine solidarity between autonomous communities. Yes Catalonia is a rich and successful part of Spain, but one reason for that is that it is a part of Spain.
@@nickvickers3486 ¿De dónde eres Scotland? ¿ O no, porque escocés son muy inteligente que las inglés?
Allying with a seperatist party won't end well for him
Free Catalonia, Free Hong Kong
@@user-op8fg3ny3j free Andalucia
He already did for 5 years...
@@user-op8fg3ny3jCatalonia is Spain
You seem to know little of Spanish history, PP (right-wing, sort of Spanish nationalists) were eager to ally the regional nationalists back in the day. Of course the discourse is they were "tame" back then, but that's how they became powerful
Edit: and that's regarding Catalans. F*cking everyone allied PNV (Basque "moderate" right-wing nationalists) back in the they until PNV themselves decided they would stop pacting with PP because they don't want to be in the same coalition as VOX (understandably, it would be political suicide). That's why they will always pact with Sánchez, it's not some evil genius machination from Sánchez's part
So far the EU has refrained from intervening, deeming it a local issue, but it would seem they have ulterior motives in regards to the Kosovo question. If they support the unitaries, they are essencially denying self determination based on legalism, which Serbia could complain about.
On the other hand, if they don't act, this is gonna fuel the anti-EU side of the right. So far, VOX has been ambivalent about the EU, and the other fringe parties are nowhere near to be relevant; yet, this whole debacle could prop up politicians similar to Orban, Milei or the dutch one (be it because of inmigration, economic policy... they would leave the EU)
Very nice video, I notice a clear improvement ever since the changes to the channel
There's such a level of disinformation and blatant lies spoited by those with a vested interest in the whole process it certainly helps an outside view of the whole mess 😅
Congrats for this very informative and pretty complete video. One important is that the government pact between Sánchez and Junts includes the investigation by the legislative of supposed cases of "lawfare", or unfair treatment by the justice courts to the Catalan independence leaders.
That has made all judiciary proffessional associations (both left and right) to reject it as a de facto intervention by polititians on justice. Many other high-on-the-administration-ladder proffessional associations have declared against it. From lawers and Registrers to Tax Inspectors.
EXCELLENT job with capital letters.
Only one change:
1977 amnesty was prior to 1978 constitution
Therefore is a different legal framework.
You didn't mention the agreement to form "special" tax systems in Cataluña, similar to those in the Basque Country; that clearly go against the equality of all spanish people and redistribution of wealth. 1st class "not wanting to be" spaniards, and then the rest
That happens when you have a multi-national state and you want to keep all nationalities happy. The major one needs to give concession.
The alternative is to simply let them go
@@matteopani9291 many spaniards (like me) are very happy recognizing all nationalities within the same country. But we should pay the same taxes and receive the same money irregardless of our nation, as defined in the solidarity system described in our constitution. One region should not pay less and receive more just because it is "a special nation" or, more to the point, because it has a nationalist party that can, on ocasion, get a president (prime minister) elected.
@@AleAsLison Catalunya has a higher tax burden than other regions. Madrid & others have been the ones paying less and getting more.
I think that portraying the blocks as the right-wing PP+Vox and the "Leftwing regionalists" comprising everyone else but Junts is miscommunication. The leftwing block is just PSOE+Sumar. The thing is that a big percentage of the voters in Spain vote for nationalists or regionalists parties. The right block, specially far right vox, has a way more centralist nationalistic rethoric which works well in castillian provinces but make pacts with regionalists more difficult. The left, however, have a more plurinational view to different extents.
Pedro Sanchez not only had to get the support of Junts, but also the equally leftwing catalan independentists ERC, EHBILDU (a sort of Basque SinnFein), basque center right PNV and other minor parties.
The rightwing rethoric of "he governs whith those who wanna destroy Spain" has proven very successful in Castillian Spain, and has only been exacerbated with the amnesty.
Spain needs to bite the bullet and become a federation. It would avoid a lot of this regional strife/separatism we’re seeing
You can only give the regions/communities so much autonomy before they feel they’re entitled to a greater say in their own governance, taxation & lawmaking
Several parties need to run on a platform of promising a nationwide federalization referendum, then follow through on it as a governing coalition
Agreed. Now that you mention it, a federation would have been a WAY better idea to begin with, when democracy was introduced...! That they didn't, when there were clear examples to follow, is actually rather odd. I wonder what the historical reasons for avoiding a Federated society, was?
Dude, where do you live? Do you know what was the referendum question in Catalonia in 2017?
Hint- it wasn't about the federation, or fiscal freedom (that they have packted) but it was about Catalonia becoming independent republic
Gosh, how you ppl are ignorant or just illiterate.
@@predabot__6778
What is wrong whith you? Do you know how ti google, read, or you are completely illiterate and ignorant?? Question im the referendum wasn't about the federation it was about Catalonia becoming the independent republic. Gosh. Just go and educate yourself.
The problem that you claim about federation comes from the very political subject that formed Spain. Spain IS not merely an state, before that ontologycal process this subject was a nation: nation-state. Other countries like Germany, Italy, UK...are countries whose constitutions develop the state throughout society...this doesn't happen in Spain Because there was a previous ontologycal entity that doesn't fit the assumptions and the reality of states that mature as Germany, or USA...interesting federal states that were born after a constitution. What happens in catalan separatism comes from european romanticism and nationalism of XlX century. Even Lluís companys, father of catalán separatism was inteligent enough to understand that Catalonia was not a nation and couldnt create one only trought Will. That's why he declares the catalan repúblic inside the federal republic of Spain, Because that's the only way to get own-goverment and instruments to develop a new identity separated of the political subject that unites the complex mix of societies inside Spain. I hope you understand a bit more about spanish political problems
@@predabot__6778understanding spain is difficult Because there are few countries around the world that share its ontologycal process like Portugal, Japan or China. These are nations that were born through history, Legends and the people inside of It couldnt decide its Destiny or Will. Japan was born by a Legend about amaterasu and its son and descendente decided the Destiny of that island during centuries. China was born as a symbolic peace between three kingdom that pursued Divinity, and stablished the celestial empire. Spain was born the moment different societies of the penninsula united as a whole to declare the reconquista of the Lost territories in hands of muslims, but once spanish discovered a new continent and civilizations, this reconquista didnt finish in granada, but the world, in a new way... throughout the apostolic Roman conquest...and what is that? Repopulation of the new territories with natives, building towns and cities, mix spanish race with natives, discovering new regions to unite it with the main land, stablishing a common langague to understand each other and common laws and practises...spain didnt create any constitution during its foundation, but with the Primitive instruments, the decisiones made by all the societies inside the penninsula was enough to achieve a common behaviour and entity from the bottom to the top of the people. Spain didnt send soldiers to América, but peasants, merchants, monks... People left their town to Discover and stablish a new Life in the new world and in that moment the main power was not a feudal lord as always has been. but the monarchy itself and that was an important change in the collective idea of power inside the society. That didnt happen in Germany or other european kingdoms in which the feudal lord was the main power during centuries until the arrival of states as a political subject
You've done a great work in this one with pronunciation! And of course great video
Please do a video on Ireland and the current situation. There was a terrorist attack in Dublin and three primary students were seriously injured.
If you guys are doing a Dutch elections video, please do your research on what a political compass is and that you can be conservative and left at the same time.
Because I have seen so many news sources claim that the PVV is Far Right, whilst the PVV has very left winged economic policy.
Well, their socio-economic paragraph is vague and unsubstantiated, so until they enter government, we won't really know.
For over 20 years their focus has been on right-wing themes (nationalism, immigration, culture wars). That's what they're known for, and what their appeal is.
They did draw voters from the far left (SP), but more from the right (VVD/FvD).
Apart from health care, they have never made any noise in parliament on left-wing themes (housing, taxes/corporations, workers rights, social programs).
You left out one of the most important things. Pedro Sanchez, and the socialist workers party as a whole, opposed amnesty law until after the elections. Thats why protests and politicians call for election fraud. He literally said it was against the rule of law and the constitution. and most of his cabinet has very recent (during elections campaign) televised moments in which they discard amnesty for convicted catalan separatists. Also, all judicial groups (from every political side) have expressed their opposition to the law, and consider it inconstitutional. The other important thing missing, is that even if it is possible to delay its approval, it will be passed, and people like puidgeont will comeback to spain. It will probably be contested in tribunals, etc, but in some cases, its impossible to retract some of the effects of the law. its very unpredictable, though.
Por qué iban a decir los grupos judiciales que es ilegal, cuando se ha usado ya la misma ley de amnistía en otras ocasiones? Si se retracta la ley de amnistía, entonces tendrán que ser condenados todos los que estaban protegidos por ella, incluídos los de delitos de tortura y tal del franquismo?
@@peksn lol no, simplemente esto no funciona asi y ademas deberia ser evidente.
@@peksn Es Que no hay tal ley de amnistía. Para eso primero te informas listo. No ha habido una sola amnistía desde la transición, el resto son perdones mal llamados amnistía. Pero está claro que estás ciego de ideología
@@peksnHubo una aministia en España si, en 1977 justo antes de que se firmara la constitucion. Desde entonces se han otorgado indultos pero no amnistia.
While going against campaing promises may seem immoral, it constitutes no legal problem and is to be expected in multi-party parliamentary democracies. The voters are to decide whether they keep supporting PSOE in the next elections or not (although realitically, they will forget).
Following that reasoning, Rajoy should have been ousted too because he made his whole campaign during the economic crisis saying he'd lower taxes, and the first thing he did in office was to raise them lol
Politicians with 50,1% of votes Governing completely against what 49,9% of voters want, and they call themselves progressive and democratic…
Spanish voters, we are all on the same team, whether we are right or left. We need to force politicians to govern following the will of ALL of the voter base. Governing for 50,1% only will never be a sustainable solution.
What about the lawfare that the PSOE said in the signed document with Junts it exists in Spain and the parliamentary comissions that will be held in the parliament bringing the judiciary under inverstigation by another power?
"Left wing- regionalist block" isn't accurate, there are 2 (or even 3) pro independence parties in that block
While holding an independence referendum would be unconstitutional, it hardly seems criminal. Effectively, the referendum was at best a questionable opinion poll. So why the criminal charges?
They used public money to organise it, they blocked the streets and the airport, some policemen were left unable to walk and afterwards they unilaterally declared Catalonia independent for a few instants creating a huge caos. After that, their leader Puigdemont flees to Belgium as to not be judged and after 5 years, the president Sanchez needs 7 parliamentary votes. He has promised Puigdemont not only amnesty (being pardoned even before being judged) but also forgiving part of Catalonia’s debt that the rest of spaniards will have to pay, full catalan control of strategic infrastructure… Spain is just fed up of being lied and stolen right in front of their faces
Aparently Spain thinks that voting and expressing opinion is unconstitucional. Or pherhaps, the right of autodetermination is invisible to them.
@@loPrufi There is no such thing as “right to autodetermination” for any country on Earth. Even the UN allows it only for colonies.
Antonio te invito a leer el derecho internacional@@antonioldesma
2:00
Important point: In this "left-wing block" there are also right-wing parties such as PNV, which are right-wing separatists from the Basque region. So the left-wing block got even less deputies than that.
1. Spain has Presidents, not prime ministers.
2. Sanchez said that he would not do the amnesty bc that would be unconstitutional.
3. It's not the first time he does exactly what he said he would never do.
There where way more people protesting against Rajoy and nothing happened....
The ilegal referendum wasn't the only thing Puidgedemont did, he also deviated public funds destinated to real important things like education, health care, etc; and used them to finance all the necessary things to do the referendum
And flirted with Russian agents, and coerced civil servants...
Ahora dilo sin llorar.
@@CubicoOriginal En absoluto, los que más llorarán con la independencia serán los catalanes, condenados a vivir en una minúscula y débil república ineludiblemente subordinada a intereses extranjeros.
Do you think they should ever get a legal referendum under any circumstances?
@@the500mphtortoise the key word there is "legal." According to the UN, only the Spanish government can administer such a referendum. That's why the secession referendums in the Donbas and Crimea were not legal, apart from their legitimacy as standalone elections being totally sus.
Interesting times ahead!
It's hard to assess the Catalans, particular the ones in Barcelona. Some folks there seem to be openly and outwardly going out of their way to be unpleasant to visitors - not all, but a few. Is this the result of wanting an identity different and separate from Spain??
His best defence is keeping the spotlight on Vox and how it was necessary to keep them out.
Sounds like the same reasoning that is applied to AFD in Germany
They tried the same thing in Italy with Matteo Salvini and his Lega party. But this only enraged the public, and while the Lega has lost most of the support it had in the previous years (which shifted to Meloni's Brothers of Italy) also the parties who were responsible of forming a new executive, with the only purpose of keeping Salvini out of the government, did not see any better results with most notably the 5 starts movement which went from 32% in 2018 to I think 15% in 2022
@@dioniscaraus6124 keeping fascism away from governance is important
@@empheleleif you think the AFD is fascist then you're either extremely out of touch or believe fascism is any ideology that opposes Marxism.
@@MrJack1992targeting all blame on inmigrants and cultural marxists like the AFDs do is pretty much in the fascist guidebook.
I'm glad the separatists have enough power to force this amnesty through. I found it disturbing that people were prosecuted for the Catalan independence referendum in the first place.
Sanchez could just say, "Oh well" if it failed to pass in the Senate and the courts.
I think this guy is awesome. The narrator
UK and Spain racing to see whos nation can collapse first lmao
Watch one of the U.K. parties get forced to ally with the SNP to form a government. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Not really comparable situations
@@manniking233 That is if the SNP doesn't meltdown first lmao
@@manniking233😂
Two countries that occupy a neighbouring region using a planted population
Spain is just slightly more open and honest about its fascism
I am from Spain and this country has a big problem because people continue to vote for the same circus party. It doesn't matter if they lie or make fun of them, they will continue to vote for them because these parties have demonized the opposition parties to such an extent that they prefer to be deceived than to have these opposition parties govern.
Literalmente repitió como 20 veces que no se iba a amnistiar a nadie porque era inconstitucional, y ahora resulta que no solo es constitucional, sino que si estás en contra eres un fascista. Qué circo por dios... Lo peor es que sus votantes lo compran
Frankly, it seems like PP and especially Vox are just as much circuses
Also yeah, welcome to politics, telling people the other party sucks is a big part of it. Don't act like PP don't engage in that lol. They said Sanchez was committing a coup after all
@@ridley0314 Todo lo que no sea del gusto de su santidad, Sánchez, es ultraderecha... Y lo peor es que la gente se lo cree... conozco gente que se quejaba de la situación actual de España pero se alegraba de que el PSOE gobernase... “Locura es hacer lo mismo una y otra vez y esperar resultados diferentes”
Same discourse was said about PP for years. That they were unvoteable and old, uncultured people still voted for them because they were manipulated through "red terror".
It's as simple as 1) many leftist voters don't care about territorial issues or even side with separatists (sadly in my opinion) or 2) right-wing parties offer a far worse alternative, specially after the rise of VOX, that most Spaniards refuse (I abscribe to this vision). And the composition of Congress reflects that, the right simply can't achieve a majority
Is debatable if Sanchez did a coup, but its not doubt that the fiscalization of justice promised in the Psoe-Junts treaty is extremely dangerous for our democracy, especially because its not regulated, there is not and specified time or rules for its fiscalization@@Me-ui1zy
Let's hope so.
so the central government is using groups of people who want to break away from the Spanish Union to run the central government? how does that work exactly. We vote for our own dissolution?
Why blame him? One should do whatever is within ones power within the law to stop fascism from taking root.
It's a bit more complicated. Catalan nationalists aren't exactly the most anti-fascist thing ever. They love their etnicism and the "otherness" of Spaniards and dissidents
@@armintargaryen9216 Honestly, other than the typical social media toxicity I haven't seen much in the regard of ethnical supremacy and fascism? Sure, the ethnicity/identity thing is strong, reminds me of that one superold quote from Junqueras about DNA (lol)... but that isn't very fascist by itself. They even granted the Aran Valley the right to independence, so it doesn't seem like they're too keen on imposing themselves.
You got it backwards because Sanchez is out of the law to bring regional fascism in.
nonargument....
Why blame him? One should do whatever is within ones power within the law to stop communism from taking root.
you know an argument is bad when you can apply it to everything you dont like and its undebunkable....
Lol, you know nothin bud
Foreigners perspective here but I think it’s ridiculous that you can be prosecuted for non-violent political campaigns or even holding an unofficial referendum. It’s not like the referendum ended in civil war, it was mostly peaceful as far as I can see and didn’t cause the breakup of the Spanish state. It’s almost like the Spanish state is scared of its own breakup so much that they want to ignore the essence of free expression to suppress independence movements. And as a foreigner I personally don’t care whether Catalonia leaves Spain or not but even if you don’t let the Catalonian people have their say because not breaking up Spain is in the constitution, fine... but it’s not in the constitution to lock up those who oppose this clause of the constitution.
@@giebfkfb39584 in what way is a referendum not political expression and nonviolent? Bearing in mind the much easier solution could be you know… just declare the referendum invalid. Instead of arresting people for it, the referendum itself never hurt anyone. That is my point. Here sturgeon tried to hold a referendum without Westminster and the court just said no you can’t, she didn’t go ahead with it but basically if she did they said it would be invalid but she isn’t going to be arrested.
A catalan here, what you said pretty much sums it all up
The only thing here is that for this peacful referendum the government at the time (PP) mobilized thousants of Guardia Civil police that left their towns singing "A por ellos" (aka: let's go get them with the use of violence. Also the king used that motive in one of his speeches.) there is an element of hate here. @@tobeytransport2802
As is the case with most constitutional monarchies the prime minister is still prime minister as long as they command a majority in the more powerful lower house. And Sanchez is especially immune from street protests because he's being propped up by various Galician, Catalan, and Basque nationalist parties who couldn't care less what "Spaniards" (Castilians) think or want.
Somewhat weird that this is what sparks public outrage while Spain has had for a decade a special justice system for men where right to a fair trial and presumption of innocence are inapplicable while sentences are doubled, all based on the criteria of gender.
I'm not familiar with the catalan situation. Why do people think the rule of thumb "local people should decide how themselves want to be governed" doesn't apply for people in catalan?
Roughly speaking forcing a group of people to be governed against their willing (like CCP ruling Taiwan) is bad FACTOR for overall well being of people. Occasionally there are other FACTORS that are more important. For instance, constant asymmetric expansion of Russia by chipping away territory of other democratic countries, is a factor that can be more important than letting people of donetsk to be governed the way they want.
What factors, in the case of catalan, make people think catalan people should be forced to be governed by spain against catalan people's will?
@@javi1191One could say they make a lot of noise and demands *precisely" because their demands have been met in the past, which leads to more power and more demands...
"local people should decide how themselves want to be governed" worked wondefully for brexit right?
@@perimarc6008
I agree democracy sometimes doesn't give optimal outcome. However, democracy still seems to give the best outcome on average, out of all kinds of political systems, including different kind of authoritarian systems.
If you accept the basic principle of democracy, I think you should accept "local people should decide how themselves want to be governed" as a good factor (or as a rule of thumb).
@@bohanxu6125 It is INEVITABLE that a Catalan secession causes a economic crash for both countries, like brexit for britain.
let me use your logic against you. What do you think of the civil rights act?
FORCING the locals to do something that they dont want?
While you can give some argument like "self determination includes ALL people" it does not change that by your logic white majority places should be allowed to have segregation.
@@perimarc6008
"It is INEVITABLE that a Catalan secession causes a economic crash for both countries, like brexit for britain"
1. The same argument can apply to Tibet, XinJiang (and even Taiwan) with China.... unless you think Tibet and XinJiang would have to be governed by CCP, you shouldn't think Catalan have to be governed by Spain.
2. There will almost always some short term negative impact when you change the status quo. They are not sufficient reason to stop the change.
3. Whether there would be an economic crash for Spain, in the short term, really shouldn't significant affect how catalan people want to be governed themselves. Similar to whether the US south's slavery-based economy would crash, shouldn't affect significantly on whether the slaves should be free or not.
4. Whether there would be an economic crash for Catalan, should be judged by local catalan people, not spanish people... similar to whether brexit would crash british economy should be british people to judge, not EU to judge. You can better educate local people... but it still should be up to the local people fundamentally... unless you are against democracy (or if you have a better version of democracy that can give better results consistently)
This is what politics should be like. All the parties in the congress are elected democratically and so they represent the will off a lot of people in cataluña. It is the responsibility of the elected members to try and achieve a government negotiating the terms and becoming together. Not insulting each other like the right parties.
Mandatory pronunciation review:
- brilliant. Maybe you could check how to pronounce "Sumar" (you sound a bit slavic xD). But you nailed everything else. You get a solid A
Love the thumbnail 💀
Me too
Imagine if in 2017 if Labour had to negotiate with Welsh, Irish, and Scottish seperatists times 100
Pretty sure Northern Ireland is a great example of why staying with the UK is a mistake.
that would have been based
Very good, neutral brief. Greetings from Spain.
two things to point out tho: His last government was also a minority government and most of the smaller parties are also left wing, so would agree with his politics in general.
All parties have their failings. Spain is a multi-ethnic and multi-linguistic state whose Castilian majority consistently overtaxes and underfinances non-Castilians, and actively seeks to portray the nation as a single ethnic state (ugh!). Catalans, for their part, have failed to put forward anything that would lessen the near complete control a handful of monied interests ("las 100 familias") that control its economy, with slavery practiced openly in the widespread use of immigrants for odd jobs and agricultural labor across the region. Non-Castilians are discriminated against in Catalonia, especially wrt employment, as are Catalans in the rest of Spain. Hard to support any party in this conflict, as they are all dead wrong about almost every weak postulate they put forth. A big "meh" and a rueful shake of the head, as clear thinking is a lost art in Spain.
There is a key point missing here, the agreement also covers pardoning 80.000 milion euros of Catalan debt, and making the rest of Spain pay it instead. Also conceding tax collection, social health and judicial system. Each of these points are equally important to the amnesty.
It will pardon debt from all regions. The region that will get benefited the most for this is Andalucía, in fact.
that's not true
Btw, transferring the judicial system, that's false. Social health idk what you mean, but healthcare is already ceded to the regions. And in regards to taxes, it is Junts' proposal, which needs to be debated with the government and that will ensure that equality between the regions is maintained, and that might end up leading to nothing new at all anyways.
As a Canadian, I see a lot of parallels between Catalonia and Quebec. But I can’t imagine how popular it would be to have to lean on a separatist party to form a government comprised of mostly nationalists. Seems precarious at best.
Catalan nationalists are not in government but a minority of the governing coalition in parliament. I think most left-wing people don't like it, but accept it as the only option to stop the far right of entering the government.
Not just that, but Junts is also a right-leaning party...
@@nicolascolchero726it is absurd to suggest that any principles and values should be neglected only to avoid a right-wing coalition. And most left wing voters acknowledge this. Particularly because the amnesty law was absolutely off the table during the election campaign.
@danielmorgansepulveda6962 Is it absurd to renounce to a few of my principals to avoid a right-wing victory that would entail a renounce to all of them. Myself as well as most leftists, see this as the lesser of two evils.
@@nicolascolchero726 I see your point but I don't think it stands here. The popular party asked for his abstention in order to form a government WITHOUT VOX (like in 2016) and he said no. They also asked for his support to form a coalition and he said no. Vox actually said they wouldn't force Feijoo to accept them inside the government. It is simply not true that it was the case of choosing between Vox and ALL the nationalist parties including hard-right like juntx.
But that's what he managed to convince many Spaniards of. Hats off to him.
Mr Puigdemont and other separatists were not charged and deported in Belgium, Italy, Scotland, Germany or Switzerland. In those countries, the judges did not see any crime. Just in Spain.
Where is the Dutch Election video?
Looking forward to it 😊
Sánchez will do whatever it takes to remain in power, and the only PSOE members who dare to speak against him are those who no longer need to develop their political career (militants that are too old to care, former members, former high ranking members, and even a former president) because everyone else knows that they will become a paria in the party and destroy any chance they have of rising in it
The other parties are happy because they know that Sánchez will give them whatever they want
So no, there’s no way it will break the government
Ahora dilo sin llorar.
Well, Catalonia in Spain and not independent is what actually gives PSOE any chance to stay in power or exist, so.. without Catalonia, Spain at least will be free from PSOE too. So, they want the refrendum? I say, they should have one. Spain can't lose either way this goes.
@@CubicoOriginal que si bro que el psoe te ha vuelto a pintar la cara otra vez pero tienes demasiado orgullo para admitirlo. Pero eh, por lo menos no gobierna la derechona turbofacha
@@CubicoOriginalla mediocridad de la política solo tiene cabida en España gracias a los que veneráis al partido político que sea como si fuese una religión
Venga, arrodíllate ante un político que pone a sus socios por encima de la ley, y acusa a todo aquel que lo critique, ya sea de izquierdas o de derechas, de llorón. Muy maduro por tu parte
An independent Catalonia makes as much sense as separating Silesia from Poland, you can, but such a country will be a threat to peace and will not have a strong economy. Historically, Catalonia doesn't make much sense either. Moreover, since the Prime Minister is Spanish, he should care about a strong Spain
The think is a strong Spain doesn't appear all of a sudden from nothingness. Spain democracy's is built on assimetric decentralization, that's a fact, rich regions have a lot of power and it only seems to grow. Reverting that trend is difficult and requires more than will, probably even conflict sadly. If you mix that with sectariam politics, many of us would prefer a weak state but progressive and liveable than an ultraconservative nightmare
Are you saying that small countries have weak economies and are a threat to peace?
/person from Denmark wants to know.
Catalan independence is the opposite of Brexit. They want it if Spain, but not out of the EU. So, they want to have their own EU Commissioner, their own prime minister in the European Council, and their own Ministers in the Council of the European Union. They want to be in the Schengen Area, they want to be in the Eurozone. They would be net contributors to the EU budget, as they are richer than Spain on average (Spain has poorer regions that bring the average GDP per person lower).
So, explain to me again how any of that is like Brexit.
it if Spain = out of Spain (I don't know why I can't edit my comment)
You forgot to talk about the 15.000.000.000€ of catalonian debt pardoned to get junts' votes. That debt now has to be payed by spanish taxpayers
Also in the pact between PSOE and JUNTS they mention Lawfare. It has become quite controversial.
As a Catalan I wanted to add a couple things:
1. Sanchez Promised he wouldn't do this and he himself said it was unconstitutional
2. This is not only a bill about things of the past, but it has provisions that the government can review, and change the result of future trials if it determines them to be political (This is a very heavy blow to the separation of powers)
3. The bill introduces the concept of "lawfare" - implying that the powers are not, already separate, and it's a heavy slander against the justice system
4. Associations of lawyers and judges, even from the left, are extremely against this
Guys! Just a small tiny were comment, the reason Pedro Sanchez had been accused of carrying out a couple is because he managed successfully to bring a motion of censure (the equivalent to a motion of no confidence). Had been one of the few politicians to pull it off in the democratic history of Spain, and since then, the right had been running a campaign calling him "golpista".
I'm a great fan of your show. Keep it up guys!
Not at all, the reason is that he completely ignored the separation of powers to get the 7 voted he needed, the guy would have sold his mother in order to govern, what is upsetting is seeing a part of the population lacking self rational and defending what is indefendible just like sheep following their pastor, regardless of your political spectrum no one should be defending an amnisti or the forgiveness of debt, it’s not an example we should give our children, regardless of how much of a criminal you are or how much you irrationally en debt yourself if you have something to offer your sins are forgiven, that’s what we are teaching which is a horrible lesson
I lived in Spain for 13 years during the era of Felipe Gonzalez..He wasn’t bad at all..one of his best policies the Proteccion Oficial housing programme..a Goverment mortgage/loan for low incom Spaniards to get on the property ladder..Many of my Spanish friends have benefited greatly from this..Maybe UK should look into what Gonzalez did..For me it remains one of the things the PSOE ever did..
Hey, I've seen this one!
As a Catalan I can say that this video is a fair overview of the situation, good job. Visca Catalunya!
Visca Catalunya dins d'una Espanya unida!
peoples have right to self-determination (doesn't mean independence, but choosing what form of autonomy, including independence). it is international law, of course not applied because not politically convenient to countries. but if you complain that Catalans have the right to choose, you should complain about Irish people, or Croats, or many more.
if you say "Catalans don't want the independence" well so let them vote and choose, what's the problem.
if you say "they're richer poorer, not oppressed, not revolting" -> right to self-determination doesn't depend on economical condition, or oppression status (of course if they're oppress is more urgent)
"it will weaken Spain" -> sure, like Ireland weakened the British Empire (also, the assumption that multiethnic states are stronger is clearly false given the ethnic civil wars all around the war)
"we can't possibly set the objective criteria" -> true, but there are circumstances in which peoples have the clear right having a definite geographic area, language, clearly distinct ethnic group, history (just to mention Kurds, Catalans, etc.). it's like to say "we can't possibly catch all thieves so we don't catch any" or "we can't have 100% justice so let's have 0% instead of 50%". in any case not less than Irish, so again, complain about Ireland if you complain about Catalans.
right to self-determination is the only civilized way to solve this matter, like UK did with Scotland or Canada with Quebec. be civilized, even patriotic but not nationalist.
otherwise, be consistent and complain about Ireland. admit: if I was in the 20s I'd say giving Ireland independence is a bad idea.
I completely agree with that
As an Irish person, let me kindly remind you, we didn't join the tans of our own accord, they invaded, displaced, starved and murdered us. After multiple famines we had enough and made it untenable for them to keep us. They didn't give us anything as Brits don't give countries independence. We took it. Now stfu and stay in your irrelevant hole that apparently begs instead of standing on its own feet.
The thing is that them leaving Spain would probably wreck the economy.
@@perimarc6008- yes, and a lot of divorces lead to people have a bad economy, but we do not make divorce illegal for that reason.
This is part of the reason why Americans should be thankful for the separation of the executive and legislative branches. The President never needs to bend to Congress's whims to stay in power, and "Kingmakers" don't hold so much sway on their decisions.
Literally for 10 years nothing has worked, nothing, so why not give amnesty a go? There's been plenty of economical amnesties for rich people and PP related bankers etc, so why should it be OK to amnesty the people who brought down the bank system in Spain and not OK now?
If only, Catalunya deserves its independence.
Independence for Catalonia and Scotland now!
Independence for Provance and Bretagne too!
I'm not sure the deal will pass through the Senate since PP has a majority in it.
The Senate in Spain can't fully block any law passed throught Congress. So no, the Senate can't do anything but delay it.
I really like the thumbnail
Isn't it time for some amnesty though? Criminalizing people for wanting to organize a referendum, sure they were political agitators (in a way), but it shows that Spain (not just Madrid) is terrified of regional autonomy getting out of hand. And as we all know, fear leads to the dark side 😉.
In these complex and emotional issues, one cannot be a hardliner. Spain was ruled by hardliners in the past, and it brought great suffering.
Spanish people are willing to do a referendum as long as all spaniards vote, and not just the ones in catalonia, basqueland or other regions. If catalonia wants independence, they should offer something compelling to all spaniards, and not just to sanchez.
I see you didn’t inform yourself. The politicians were being prosecuted for breaking the law and ignoring court rulings.
Additionally, the problem with amnesty is that it’s doubtfully constitutional at best and does not pardon a crime (there needs to be a sentence by the courts for that), but wipes it off. Basically you have politicians deciding whom the judges can prosecute or not, which I don’t see how spanish politicians will not abuse.
On top of all of that, the amnesty clears embezzlement charges and explosive fabrication charges.
Yeah, just ignore they completely ignored the law and deviated MILLIONS of public funding into their little referendum scheme.
And also the fact that, if this amnesty is declared legal, then that means politicians can wipe any crime they want, whenever they want to, and judging by both PSOE and PP's history with corruption, I don't think that's a pretty good measure.
@@TheJamonLanceSpanish people have lots of contradictory ideas and the fact that you are speaking as the voice of the people is quite telling.
You logic is completely bollocks.
Imagine a trumpist saying. "Isnt it time that we grant amnesty to Trump? Criminalizing him for wanting to break the law, sure he is a political agitator (in a way), but it shows that the left is terrified of trumpism getting out of hand. And as we all know, fear leads to the dark side 😉."
You could not believe this yourself. Either you have a strong case of cognitive dissonance or you are just super manipulative.
Just as a clarification, all of those demonstrations that he has mentioned actually have a huge pressence of fascists doing the fascist saludation. The pressence of many former members of Falange Española (which was, at first during the dictatorship, the paramilitar pro-fascist group) have shown that a lot of the candidates that got a seat on the Parliament durint the 2019 elections had a past of militating on fascist and fascist-alike nationalists grups. During this past election on july, the People's Party (PP and Feijóo) actually were expected to achieve a simple majory in the Parliament, which decreased the pressence of VOX (far-right). For the summer elections it wasn't that much about personal prefferences and a lot of people got away from voting their own personal priorities (the decrease of the pressence of the regionalists and alternative left-winged parties) to actually help PSOE and Sumar to fight the increase of VOX and having them actually forming a government and achieving the concessions that PP would have given them.
The presence of the extremist groups like the falange, francoists etc is mostly limited to the protest in front of the socialists headquarters, this protests are small around 4.000. There they are behaving like animals.
But in the big protests like cibeles (organizers say 1.000.000 goverment says 170.000) the parcitipaction was peaceful.
Well said
If these Spanish fascists are listened to Spain should be chucked out of the EU
These falangista must be consigned to history
of course, every time there are demonstrations against the independence of catalonia or "leftist" politicians people say this to delegitimize them, always, and I when I say this I mean literally always.
Before vox many media and people seriously said that cs and pp were fascist and any demonstration with their voters is fascist supported too.
@@Yo-tt9mt Oldest trick in the socialist handbook
@@Yo-tt9mtPP and Cs are (were in case of Cs) not fascist, but you are too comfortable to march in the presence of fascist and have governments with their presence. Leftist parties always use that as an attack because... Well, it doesn't stop happening. Also I remember when Josep Borrel headed a unionist coalition and was attacked on all fronts because the right wing need to own the idea of national unity
As a Spaniard myself, I'm deeply embarrassed we have that man as prime minister...a man who has proven he will do whatever it takes to stay in power...Though it is true this law will definitely be challenged in the courts in the coming months, so it may not become law.
Too much dirty Sanchez
Bring Back Aragon. Reinstate the Trastamaras
Based
Aragon and Castille when
People from Madrid, deciding that the Catalans don’t get to hold an independence referendum is like mostly English MPs deciding that Scotland doesn’t get to pass a piece of pro-trans legislation, could you imagine if that happened?!
First of all, it is not just “people from Madrid”, it is the whole country (people from Catalonia as well). Protests have been going on in every city of Spain (also in Catalonia). Catalan independentists are not a majority, Catalonia is part of Spain and it should be a national matter, not just a regional matter. If they want to leave Spain I’m sure our french neighbours will happily wellcome them, but Catalonia will always be Spain.
The problem is the assumption that Spain IS an state like UK. UK was born by an union of different kingdoms that after a constitution cristallize as a state-nation. Spain as a political entity IS not merely an state, but a nation state and that happens the moment the different societies of the penninsula unites as a whole to make the apostolic Roman conquest with the Discovery of América and the repopulation, mixing of races, building of towns and cities and every process that made Millions of peasants of basque country, Galicia, Catalonia, asturians, valencians to unite as a whole and return to see their families and stablish common rules and a common langague in the new lands and the penninsula. Remember that no soldiers were used during the americano conquest Because that was imposible during centuries. Peasants that were ruled by feudal lords, the moment they decided to Live in América, were ruled directly by the spanish monarchy, and that changed the collective idea of power of the spanish society. The first european nation alongside Portugal was born
That actually happens. There are a number of laws that were approved by the Catalan parliament that were rejected by Spanish courts even though these laws were literally copied from other autonomous communities (like the bullfighting ban, copied from the Canary islands).
Edit: And just to correct some of the misleading responses in this thread, there have been no major protests in Barcelona this time, just one and it was so minor (only 2k people) that the only thing that appeared was a woman shouting and she became a meme.
@@gonzalomcampos If they aren't a majority in Catalonia, how about you grant them their human right to democracy and prove it? And it shouldn't be a national matter, it should be a regional one, they have just as much of a right to self-determination as anyone else, and that should only be decided by those living there, same thing with Scotland
If you don't live there, you don't deserve a say, the fact that you think you have a right to suppress their rights to democracy and self-determination is Franco-esque, a man who your country has been hesitant to have a national conversation about, and a man who was particularly cruel to Catalonia
@@fourier4717 I swear Spain is one of the most progressive countries in Europe but when it comes to Catalonia, the entire country seems to be filled with neo-fascists and authoritarians
You should use a taller chair. The desk is swallowing you
NO.
Sanchez has sacrificed the credibility of his party, for his own power lust.
Actually it's exactly the opposite.
Except the right-wing, who already hated him, everybody else is seeing that he managed to find consensus between a lot of parties that represent 67% of the voters.
@@parametr
No actually any sane economist sees his breechs and abuse of the power as interfearing in juridic stability and independence, and with the lawfare, Spain will fall more on democracy level (since 2022 is flawn not full,) nand with the lawfare - all agencies are together on this one and against, and the capital, wealth, company and money will just run away.. now, if Sanchez have some gold producing machine, that might save Spain but his huge state apparatus is just producing verbal, economic and common sense diarrhea and vomits.
@@parametrare those “everybody else” in the room with us right now?
free catalonia
Not only the Catalans who are in the goverment agreement the basque pnv has also gotten a lot for euskadi to in order to get sanchez elected! But I guess we will only talk about junts because it drives more engagement and views... Hence my comment, well played
So you are telling me thenginvernment need the junts party no matter who would have been in charge.
Interestingly PSOE won a landslide in Catalonia with 19 seats and was the leading party in three of the three sub-regions. Together the 2 independence parties only got 7 each. So to be clear Independence for Catalonia is far from overwhelmingly popular in Catalonia.
As good as that sounds, we have to moderate expectations by knowing that many people vote strategically in national elections. So many of those PSOE voters may still vote independentist in Catalan elections (possibly ERC, I doubt many would jump to Junts). Still, great numbers for PSOE and unionism. Bad numbers for PP and VOX, who won't like to see PSOE as the hero of unionism, and for Podemos/Sumar, who lost that spot
They were very popular in 2017, but they made the huge mistake of the unillateral declaration of independence, and now they're dead. They failed and people are tired and have greater problems to attend.
Keep in mind people voted mainly for only PP or PSOE as the two alternatives and also, participation was very low, areound 55%
I cant understand the Spanish social democratic party, there are so many pro-worker reforms that could be implemented to secure Spain's social economic future.
But all they seem to do is gender politics and tokan laws to be appealing to the insignificant minority that cares about thoses issues!
Classic modern social justice movement: all talk little action
you have a point
There are already too many social programs in Spain that strain its economy, this holds true to all european social-democracies.
@@AmirSatt The economy has other issues. Stop blaming social programs that help the poor.
its what happens when political parties get funded by big business. They can't make meaningful change because it will upset their funders but they have to be seen to be doing something. It's just like in the US in the opposite direction with the republicans. All the policies that might actually help the country would upset their billionaire funders, but doing more of what their funders want would make their voters even poorer, so they spend all their time trying to ban books about gay people and slavery in schools and ban abortion and generally virtue signal about every new moral panic that crosses the headlines. Because those things make their supporters feel like they're doing something while not having to actually do anything meaningful
Iberia is a whole game of thrones show in the political spectrum right now
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