Okoii's Zombie Army is UNKILLABLE
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2022
- Check out Okoii's Video here:
• 19 Zombies
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Who knew the ultimate doomstack would be zombies
Do you think this could be competitive in a multi-player head to head campaign? The idea of trolling a friend with this has me tickled
@@swe123swe Yes, this and unbreakable gnoblars are good goofs
@@Okoii how do you handle armies with like winds of death, artillery, nukes etc?
@@swe123swe I kinda doubt it, I think missile play focussing down ghorst would shut this down pretty fast
@@swe123swe Lord snipe, this all ends if Ghorst dies
We are zombies we are meant to be expendable!
Ghorst: Not to me!
I WILL CURE YOU MY FRIENDS!
Good clone wars adapation.
Good Zombies follow brains.
I got the impression it was more like Ghorst just replacing destroyed zombies with the enemies dead... White walker style.
Top 10 most heart warming moments in Anime.
Ogre: ''Why won't you die?!''
Zombie: ''Black magic, son.''
Necromachines son!
Hardens in response to physical trauma
We are making mother of all zombies Jack! Can't fret over every heal cap!
When rotting there I realise
Zombie: "Been there, done that."
The coolest thing is that the effects are factionwide. Making Ghorst the S tier lord for confederation, imo.
@@damo9961 they literally answered that
Yeah if you could actually confed
S-tier lord to start with
vlad yeets manfred out of sylvania, but when he sees that ghorst is gone he personaly writes him a note asking him to come back.
@@bradsimon2180 why can’t you confed besides the distances?
Ghorst went from a joke character, to a wind of death strategy, to a unstoppable zombie apocalypse.
What a character arc
he is after all the most powerful necromancer to my knowledge.. Right after another certain necromancer.
@@Marxak666 Nagash my beloved
@@fedorshcheglov5534 i can't wait for Nagash dlc so I can absolutely destroy him with Oh mighty, Settra... Great King, the Imperishable, Khemrikhara, The Great King of Nehekhara, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Divine Flame, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier, Commander of the Golden Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Chosen of Ptra, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Great Vitae, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Vermin, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion of the Infinite Desert, Emperor of the Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Atalan, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Desert Gods, Breaker of the Ogre Clans, Builder of the Great Pyramid, Terror of the Living, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Ptra's Holy Blade, Scion of Usirian, Scion of Nehek, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of the Mortuary Cult, Banisher of the Grand Hierophant, High Lord Admiral of the Deathfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of the Liche King, Unliving Jackal Lord, Dismisser of the Warrior Queen, Charioteer of the Gods, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer off Reddittras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Usirian, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Scorpions, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of Khemri's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of the Eastern Mountains, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Tamer, Master of the Mortis River, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of all Necrotects, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of Araby, Purger of the Greenskin Breathers, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Bone Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Nehek's Lands, Breaker of Djaf's Bonds... and many, many more... and his 4 full stack armies
Lore wise, I wonder who the strongest necromancer is in WHFB.
@@Deerygccawwetthjbgde Nagash, no doubt
Virgin Neferata making a bootleg elixir of immortality vs Chad Ghorst casually making every single zombie more immortal than Nagash
Eve mighty Settra, King of Kings would nod in approval, before unleashing the mother of all Caskets of Souls bombardment on that Doom blob.
@@mirceazaharia2094 they'll run out of ammo before they can kill the blob
@@mirceazaharia2094 which will do nothing
@@skywillfindyou try anything once
*laughs in immortal zombie*
@@skywillfindyoucan confirm it destroys zombie blobs
Nurgle: We'll poison and outlast our enemies! Disease and decay for everyone!
Helman Ghorst: Hold my beer.
Hahaha 🤣🤣
Do not drink the beer.
Fighting against him as Nurgle wasn't fun. It was quite ridiculous really - with Ghorst being completely surrounded for minutes and out-regenerating all incoming damage. They need to tone it down, or perhaps give Nurgle some buff/counter.
I've been having issues as vampire counts. But I guess the trick was simply the simplest troops in your repertoire.
@@ThrashingMadPLStreamyanother complainer of chaos xd
CA "We're calling the combined grand campaign 'Immortal Empires."
Players "Oh, cuz it's the natural progression of 'Mortal Empires."
Humble Zombie "Well, that too."
Its due to chaos as they are the inmortal part eternal technically
at least they where the only ones before ZOMBIES became the inmortal ones
@@blecao that was the joke, congratulations you’re so smart
@@blecao I thought it was just a typo and was just going to ignore it until you did it twice, the word is immortal, with 2 M's. "inmortal" isn't a word. Not trying to be a jerk, or act superior in any way. I am only pointing it out so you don't find yourself in an embarrassing situation in the future.
@@yobogoya4367 No problem i dont speak native english so it is good to know
*watching Legend put all of his guys into a shapeless blob and then more or less walk into melee combat*
Me: "finally an army that matches my skillset!"
I thought the same, I am trash at this game xD
I discovered this setup yesterday and I'm having the fun of my life with this game. It's like you said - make a blob, walk in, wait until everyone is either dead or fleeing.
So this isn't patched or nerfed,, by by dwarves I'm going to zombies now.
Oh wait I'm on wh2... is this possible
@@TB_SnEaKy on wh2 no
My thoughts exactly. I want to try this game, but it looks like a complete nightmare to learn fron scratch.
Who would win? A giant mass of unstoppable ogres ravenously hungry, smashing everything in their way? Or some even more hungry, cold boys?
Well, orges forgot the grill equipment at home so they were unable to "destroy" enemy corpses fast enough \/(-_-)\/
They literally get resurrected right out of their bellies crawling back up the esophagus ripping them to shreds on the way.
a giant mass of unstoppable ogres vs the immovable wall of ever resurrecting zomboids
Zombies rotten, no good food. Ogres no want to eat, no want to fight.
Ogres just trying to crack open a cold one with the boys but the cold ones regenerate before they can be cracked open.
Okoii's Helmond Ghorst and his unkillable zombie horde vs 0 HP Immortulz krimson killers and their cheerleader squad, that'll be a fight for the ages, or at least one that lasts ages.
If you keep the cheerleaders alive i think immortulz take it
@@kingofsauce1319 they would probably take but it would take 10 goddamn years to kill all the zombies
@@kingofsauce1319 Problem being that the Immortulz could be pinned down fairly easily while a smaller stack of zombies is sent off to deal with the cheerleaders. All it would take is for a couple of the cheerleaders to die or leave the field for the Immortulz to start going down.
I don't want to be a party pooper, but as of a couple patch ago, immortulz are now bugged and they die to magic, even if they are max leadership. i hope they fixed it in WH3
@@1ManRandom mount cheerleaders on boars/wolves
zombies never gonna catch 'em
Zombie spam to skeleton spam:
*The future is now old man*
CAs 200 IQ move
@@marcelk2753
More like -1000 IQ thanks to their spaghetti code.
The ultimate doomstack was the zombies we raised along the way.
Feels more like a feature to me.
The best way to kill reanimated zombies is to snipe the lord in lore as well, right?
Pretty much.
Or a single Pit of Shades, lol
Kinda, but nah. Yos still shouldn't be able to whipe an army with a single zombie unit, that's too broken
@@user-mb1ym5ck8v As opposed to their old playstyle, which was just using a skeleton stack and casting Wind of Death over and over?
Which was every single Vampire Count faction as well. This is just for Ghorst.
I really hope this doesnt get nerfed into the ground
I'd love if there was more absurd sh*t like this in the game. This is so warhammer! "Want to kill the zombie army? Kill the necromancer or die slowly."
I was thinking it felt very thematic for counts to have near limitless zombies. I doubt regin works this way on every unit but I wonder if "meat shield" pools the healing potential.
I also hate how undead have leadership. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to figure out a unique battle mechanic for them, but maybe it's just a multiplayer thing
@@matad1917 I mean yeah, just make them unbreakable.
@@matad1917 Not just that, but they aren't immune to poison.. They take as much attrition from terrain as every other race, get debuffed when 'stronger and faster units are nearby', I mean, come on. Just give undead a more detrimental weakness, but at the same time unbreakable, immune to psychology and all that. I mean, it's not even that far removed from the bloody Dawi.
@@matad1917 I mean, they don't rout regardless of leadership but instead take damage at low leadership because the magic that binds them dissolves, no need to remove their leadership
28:58 the number actually GOES UP and then goes down lmao, I think it is reviving units and counting it as a totally new regen cap, thus basically being a self regenerating regen cap on top on a stupidly broken number
i love it xD
i had the same thought
Kind of like the ammo cheese with Tomb Kings?
First of all... Lower your voice.
@@MasterQuack14 nah fr lol
29:24 I love that one lone zombie taking on 3 units and surviving.
You go little guy, believe in the cheese!
Praise the cheese.
"Legends doomstack adventures - Okoii is unbreakable"
Avalible on blue-ray
Again I say, ZOMBIE SCIENCE IZ ZE BEST IN ZE WORLD! 👍 👌
"When you raise your zombie army behind Gold's Gym"
My take is:
Resurrected units are spawned as new units instead of the old ones, with a reset healing cap.
Just a codding oversight.
No, it's a mathematical error that makes it so they heal 500 times more instead of 5 times more lmao
"When you raise your zombie army behind Gold's Gym" IM USING THIS FOR SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE. Outstanding quotable.
Zombies: We are meant to be cheap cannon fodder. Why do you have us going against our nature?
The chad, Ghorst: We can both do a little more than we were intended for.
ah, the reference to Isaac. You are a man of culture, i see
That is awesome. Wish there were more lords with massive buffs to various unpopular units.
Tretch and Stormvermin doomstack? Or Clan Rats of Mors?
@@CapybaraConnoisseur89 that would be my dream. I actually like stormvermin and clan rictus is know for having exceedingly strong and ferocious stormvermin.
Goblins for Grom
I agree. More global bonuses to units for certain factions the better. It promotes a truly unique experience faction to faction, instead of oh the start of the campaign feels a little different because your starting lord only buff these units over here, but after the first 30 turns the campaign feels like any other for that race.
@@sassyviking6003 Try SFO, where all factions and LL's have such things, including Tretch and Queek. Funnily enough, there's an unintentional doomstack in SFO wherein Flaggelants have an ability that increases melee defence whenever they're losing melee combat. But it stacks. And they're unbreakable. So unless you shoot them, they'll murder your entire army being untouchable with 350+ melee defence. That was fun when I had my full Black Orc stack with Grimgor trying to take the Empire.
Killing Gelt, Zhao Ming, Thorek, Miao Ying, Tyrion and Volkmar would make this even more ridiculous.
+11 armour, +3AP damage, +5 MA, +6MD
Kemmler could also be useful to mitigate spell damage
There is some other LL too that gives armywide magic res too, right?
@@Eathization Heinrich Kemmler
don't forget Luthor Harkon he gives spell resistance to the army afaik
@@smartie3604 No, he only gives it to the Lord. However, after the last update, Kairos gives a 15% Spell Resistance to the whole army on defeat. Combined with Kemmler, that's 25% SR.
@@Horvath_Gabor thier several unique building chain for ghost that give more spell resist to zombies too. 25% factionwide I think
I love Ghorst's new faction name and flag, and I'd already decided that he was gonna be my first IE campaign based purely on that. The fact that he's actually a decent LL now is just icing on the cake.
@Ting Ting great isnt good when compared to amazing lords like mannfred or vlad
I am going to finally get this Lord Pack, since both he and Volkmar have really cool abilities in WHIII!!
@@alfonsocyrusjoshua9551 can’t read?
I am really happy to see necromancers getting buffed over their Vampire masters.
Now, if we could get rid of the ugly old grandfather necromancer designs and even add a build a bear necromancer mechanic like the demon prince.
That would be my dream come true.
Hopefully they have fixed Ghorst's FPS issues. He's the Only lord in the entirety of Warhammer that not only impacts my frames per second... But actually Tanks my FPS.
Its something to do with his armies VFX while he's around, mixed with blood effects and a couple of corpse engines. Before you know it you're pulling 15 frames in a battle.
Probably too many aura effects causing too many calculations/particle effects to happen in short spans of time. Turning my VFX and blood down/off does help but its still a bit of an issue in WH2.
Again i dont get this problem with any other lords.
Ghorst is like “who needs fancy ghosts, cav or zombie dragons when zombies will do everything better if you give them a bit of love.”
Yeah, that looks like one of the best doomstacks we'll see in Warhammer 3. Incredible easy to recruit. Stupidly cheap, the army only costs 433 in upkeep and recruiting them does not cost much either. Yes, they may don't do much damage, but they don't die. Helman Ghorst to use magic and deal damage. GG Okoii.
GG CA.
Yea if they have lets say 12k hp, and can heal 550% then they can heal 66k
Finally, a use for necromancer lords.
@@Ebb0Productions gg gg
It'll get nerfed; it looks too much like fun for CA to allow it to continue.
I love crapstacks that perform waaaaaaaaay above their pay grade. XD
There's something satisfying about having expendable units becoming The Expendables.
After watching DameOffensive's Helmen Ghorst playthrough the 2 things to add to this army for campaign functionality is 1 Crypt Horror unit for Siege Attacker and 1 Crypt Ghoul unit to Stalker cheese walled settlement points. That way your not having to waste turns building siege equipment and 20 minutes trying to grind through a gate and the enemy army. People were speculating and joking that Ghorst was gonna get wrecked in his new starting position but he's actually probably one of the easiest starts since you can pump out multiple doom stacks before turn 20.
I am DEFINITELY watching that, and boy, am I glad that someone got Ghorst's magnificent zombie cheese on film before it will get nerfed into oblivion.
@@mirceazaharia2094When was it nerfed?
The 1mil regen must be a bug in showing what is to be healed. If you divide that by 19 (zombies) then by their health (11k), you will get something of 5-6 times thus for some reason it takes all the zombies HP. Either its a visual bug (showing regen of all zombies in army) or that it pooled their regen together (For some strange reason).
He did say Helman Ghorst gives zombies +500% regen cap, so that would be accurate.
If this is the case, then Festus has some stonks as well.
Maybe it's something like each healing cap increase being multiplicative, and the cap being separate for each source of healing? Can't think of anything else that'd do it, that number is insane.
Ok, about 34:11 you can see he hovers over different zombie units that do not receive damage or are healed but the number DROPS. It shows regen for ALL units for some reason. Either the pool is SHARED (I doubt) or its a visual bug (which is my guess).
I think the number it "should" get is something like 55-60,000. It might be multiplying something it should be adding.
I love that this turned from rating a Doomstack to an investigation of Helman Ghorst and just how nuts he has become...it really shows how Legend's mind works and digs down.
Imagine the forever unknown game designer / tester that made this army comp possible watching this labeled "Okoii's Zombie Army"
Im finding this difficult to imagine. Largely because you seem to suggest that CA has anything even slightly resembling a tester on their team...
@@lamezorlord as matter of fact they do! A friend of mine used to manage a team for TWW2 and then TWW3 prior to its release but CA moved them to another game now so idk who is testing it, maybe we and the streamers xD
Idk as a game designer on other stuff idc too much that people know my name just that they enjoy the thing I built. So I imagine they’re just grinning wildly at how much people enjoy it… that or sitting in a cold sweat realizing it’s massively broken 🤣
@@Kraykz The equivalent of "My uncle works for nintendo"
Seeing "160 Prince Phillip's" pop up made me spit my tea out 😂
I love how the different subfactions and LLs have developed as TWW has gone on. I've always found that to be the most fun and flavorful part of the games.
Ghorst SHOULD be running a totally different army to Mannfred. Or Kemmler, or Vlad, or The Red Duke.
I suspect CA did an ooopsie with that 1 million regen. It's almost definitely showing the sum regen of all your units.
This tooltip is probably designed to check ALL units that would be affected by the heal (in case of area heal for example) to show how much you can expect from it and if it's worth casting.
In the case of Vampires though, I highly suspect the "Curse of Undeath" is being pulled into this calculation, meaning that casting a heal, is considered to "technically" affect all units map-wide, and so the tooltip will diligently sum-up all of the HP regen left of all units on the map, and not only the ones targeted by the spell.
See maybe but then would it go down in chunks when he withdrew units, it dudn't to the extent it likely should have.
@@vivusthevivusthing6182 I literally stopped watching minutes before he withdrew the units but yes, good catch, it's inconsistent with my theory. Maybe all units even withdrawn and reinforcement are considered on the battlefield for the purpose of map-wide effects. It seems like a stretch but there is no specific situation that comes to mind where such a quirk would become obvious or problematic enough to warrant a fix, so maybe it always has been like that but we couldn't notice it. I don't really know.
Probably typo 500% is actually 500x (they missed the % in the calc) would make the most sense. If the HP regen just bugs the heck out then
God this would've been cool to see the zombies get tossed around by a Stonehorn and just getting back up to eat it lol
That moment when an ogre eats a zombie, and the zombie chews its way out.
"this time it's going to take more than killing me to kill me"
Zombie
They all had the same heal amount, look at them all again. So, it seems, that the healing is army wide. As if it is adding all of their health together, then adding the multipliers to that. And all healing comes from a health pool.
You came to the same realization. So, try this, take just Ghorst and one unit of zombies, take their health, and the healing modifiers and then enter a battle and see how much healing potential that they have. Then add a second unit and see if it doubles.
This is honestly how i feel the undead should have always been. I want zombies that feel like a unending horde with maybe exceptional vulnerability to say... fire/magic attacks?
+200% weakness to fire... make 'em melt!
I hope you want to give everyone around him some units with serious fire damage from turn one too...
The regen cap to these guys, if it is originally 100% of the health bar, it is something like close to 80.000 hp. Each one of them has more HP potential than the whole enemy army.
I stand corrected, over 1.200.000 hp it is... Daaaamn
CA devs:
"Hey Frank you finished the ghorst update yet?"
"Yup just uploaded it."
"That's great, did you remember to add the healing to zombies of 50.0%"
".... 50.0?"
You joke but I've looked at a LOT of the tables for total war games over the years and have absolutely seen mistakes like that. Sometimes numbers are meant to be percentages, sometimes decimals. So a dev might forget and use 50 when they mean 0.5
@@anderspike7895 yeah, 500 percent has become 500 times the regen...
@@anderspike7895 Oh I know lol, decimal points so easy to misplace and firs thing I thought when I saw this was "Yep, decimal fuck up." XD
From my point of view what happens with the amount of regen is that the regen cap is a multiplicative bonus, and it adds the entire regen pool of all units. The small drops in the regen cap might be caused by the coding taking the entire regen pool, splitting it between the units, taking back the average value between all of them and then giving back the new regen cap value. 🤔
Cant wait to paint the map with groms nasty gobo doomstack
Da Immortulz: "We are immortals!"
Zombies: "hold my bear"
just what we need, zombies with bears..
Legend and Okoii be straight up Ghorsting all over them Ogres
Yeah, my favorite part was when he was like: "It's Ghorstin' time!" and then Ghorsted all over those guys.
@@subrsubrr334 "You Ghorstin` us, mofo. I don`t care who you are back in the Old World, you give up our position one more time, I`ll bleed ya, real quiet, leave ya here.."
I like how they removed 0 upkeep skeleton to prevent skeleton spam, but now you can just go zombies instead and don't even have to rely on spells to do the heavy lifting.
Last remaining human general on the battle field:- "But your units, they are just zombies, they are dead".
Helman Ghorst rolling away on his cart turns his head to look at the general and says:- "They always were kiddo, they always were".
The thing is, many of Ghorst's Zombie buffs are locked behind experience and the fact that the other vampire factions need to confederate him, so doomstacking chaff units in the early game isn't as viable anymore.
Beyond that, I'm happy to see that Zombies are now the go-to "mass infantry" unit over skeletons. There's literally no reason to ever get zombie units in WH2 outside of making use of Kemmler's unique follower.
A fun stress test could be to turn the end game event up to 200 and set it as early as possible. Then position your zomboys next to the spawn and see if they can smash the entire event single handed
At a guess, it looks like a bug where a zombie unit's healing cap is actually the combined cap of all the zombie units in the army.
12,500 hp * 75% healing cap * 600% gives you in the region of 55,000 hp per zombie unit, which is what Legend was expecting. 55,000 * 19 units gives you just over 1,000,000 hp which is what we're seeing.
Easiest way to test it would be to bring in half the zombies and see if the cap is halved.
tbh that is how i imagen necromancers with zombies
It’s really looks like that zombies healing pool is one for all of them. Roughly unit has 10000 health so with heal multiplier on multipler with 500, 100, 50 it would be around 55000 hp max regen, multiply it on 19 and you’ll get 1 045 000 hp pool, that’s pretty close to what legend showed us, and moreover army had a ror unit with 200models, so with accurate calculation it might be the number of ~1 100 000 that was in a video p.s it’s don’t looks like integer overflow cause it’s overflow 20 times higher of that amount and closest overflow is type unsigned short with 65535, but numbers somehow changing and don’t crash the game
It also can consider Helman Ghorst also can heal and add his regen pool)
There was another passive for heal cap ontop of the 500, 100, 50 as well in his tree
I started a Gorst campaign today and, after a hundred turns, I'm still astounded at how surviveable his zombies are. You ever see that Family Guy clip with Mike Tyson fighting Carol Channing? Gorst is Carol Channing. The rest of the Warhammer world is Tyson.
I love this change. Promotes a truly unique experience. More global bonuses that make units much more viable faction to faction. I want to see factions within races truly feeling like your playing a different campaign, instead of what we had in WH2, which is this lord feels different at the start, but after 30 turns same army and the same strat as the rest of the lords in that race.
I don’t love it, solely because it’s a factionwide lord skill. This army is pretty hard to beat as VC. So any VC faction who confederates ghorst is probably gonna have zombie spam be their best doomstack.
@@Loj84 The AI never uses its skill or bonus well. Also, confederation is harder, and Ghorst starting position probably means he will be wiped out early, as well as you can always snipe the VC lords which have always made VC AI a joke to fight. Either way, there is an easy fix if this is not the case, program the AI not to take these skills. This way players can have the unique experience we have been missing with WH2's crappy lord's army-only buff that resulted in every campaign feeling the exact same after turn 50 regardless of the legendary lord you choose to start.
@@t.mceltica3475 ? I didn’t say anything about AI.
As the player, no matter what faction you choose, your best army comp will probably be zombie spam if you get ghorst. I do not think that is good design. It should be tied to his faction, if not to his army specifically.
I have a feeling regen caps have been pooled as an attempt to optimize the game. So that instead of having to keep track of 40 units worth of regen cap (20 per army) or even 80 units in large battles, the game now only has to keep track of 2 pools, one for each side. This would explain why the pool is so large, why it goes down the same for each unit and also why the game doesn't show individual regen caps anymore.
It's in the ballpark, but seems a bit off. Could easily be my math is off somewhere. Or it could be what's being done is sort of a middle ground, where instead of 2 pools with 1 each per side, it's multiple pools with 1 for each similar unit on the same side. Or could be coincidence, I dunno.
base healing cap: 75%
uncanny resilience: 550% (effectively)
bonds of flesh: 100%
Zombie max HP (including buffs, such as uncanny resilience): 12,320
Total Zombies in army: 19
For simplicity, we're ignoring Ghorst for now.
12,320 * 19 = 234,080 total HP in army (again, ignoring Ghorst)
Applying base healing cap (75%), total healing allowed = 175,560 HP (if we're playing "vanilla" zombies, without any buffs, this is about the number we'd expect to see)
Then applying total bonus healing cap to all units (650%), total Zombie shared regeneration pool = 1,141,140.
Half of this video is Legend trying to kill zombies. And failing. Never thought I'd see the day. Also mildly surprised there was no wind of death through them
there was, twice
@@zj871023 I might've missed it when skimping forward to see if that one unit died at any time since it was taking a while, then
@@AnthroTsuneon its at the end of the first battle
Only thing I'd add to make it even stronger would probably be a Necromancer on a Corpse Cart (Balefire) as it reduces WoM regen on how many enemy units are near, so it's a must when blobbing as they won't be able to use spells at all besides the first few casts, and maybe throw in a Mortis Engine but looks like it won't be necessary.
Sasuga
Asked you about this on Discord, happy to see that you made a video about it!
I have the feeling the 1.2M healing just mean you can heal, in total, from 20 units, 1.2M health.
Edit: Actually, if the modifiers are multiplicative, then at 1000% it will easily push the cap on HP healing on a 10k health unit up to a M
At 1000% of 10k hp would be 100k. It probably pool every units together while the cap itself is additive and not multiplicative.
Except 1000% is 10x, 1 mil healing would be roughly 100x. That's 10 000%!!!
Disband most of the army and redo the battle. See if the number is the same
It's sharing it between every single zombie unit, its the total number of all the zombies HP combined, that's why it's the same regardless of which Zombie he hovered the spell over even if they had been healed or not.
It's like 1.2M for 20 units which is approximately 55K per unit i.e. 500% for each unit, which is in line with the skills and tech. The combining of the Regen poll is a very strong benefit
Not gonna lie, I kind of want to paint the map with zombie / necro spam before CA nerfs this. I think this is hilarious!
Also I do believe it’s sharing the healing pool army wide because that would put each unit at roughly 60k healing each
I love this. We need more builds like these
Love that u test Okoii's army.
Legend whenever a stat is too good to be true: ''That's gotta be a bug.''
I think this bug might be similar to the infinite ammo bug for tomb kings, when you are reviving units they are coming back new meaning they are adding more HP to the regen cap.
Ogre: Slams into a zombie full-force.
Zombie: Spits out lone remaining tooth.
"I didn't hear no bell!"
My favorite thing about his factionwide bonus is it applies to the garrisons as well so weak settlements with loads of zombies are actually harder to take over than some of the top tier buildings. Makes the vampire counts much more defensible.
Looks like whenever an entity is revived, its individual hit points are added to the regen cap. So... unlimited healing.
Haven't really played WH3 since release, but seeing IE and some of these new broken doomstacks is getting me kinda pumped. Hopefully it can rekindle my love for the game, because I had a blast with WH2
Sadly, Legend showing this off basically guarantees that it won't be a thing at launch or soon after.
I wonder how this faires against leadbelchers plus a butcher and a firebelly.
@@Grails_Knight Press X to Doubt; it's not cheese nor is it a bug. It's working as intended. You might see it being changed from a factionwide buff to an army buff to nerf it, but that's it.
@@araknas3981 ? This is very clearly a bug.
@@Loj84 The tooltip is bugged, sure because it shows an army wide healing cap for some reason (unless it was changed so healing caps are army wide which would be weird, but hey, CA).
Doesn't change the fact that CA gave Ghorst a factionwide +500% healing cap and the tech also gives +100% healing cap. That's 675% healing cap, or 83,160 hp heal per unit of zombies, or 1,580,040 hp in the case of 19 units. Which is about as intended as you can get.
From the looks of it, it must be the sum of all excess healing (of all those zombies).
At the start the value is something like: 1128000 total healing
When you take this number and divide it by the unit count of 19 it is: 59 368.42 healing per unit on average (but there' one elite unit, which increases the average for 1 zombie)
Then you can divide it by the sum of healing cap multiplicators (including the base 75% one): 59 368,42 / (0.75 * 6.5)
That will result in: ~12 178.13 health of a unit, which seems to be fairly close to the basic zombie unit health, which is 12320.
i think i got it:
the reason why you get such an insane number of max. healing possible and even while taking huge amount of damage and healing it -> without the insane number going down is because after all the buff modifiers to healing cap it NOT ONLY increases the actual healing possible but also reduced (percentage) the healing it actually counts to the unit.
in other words: if you heal the zombies for 1000 hp -> because they fucked up the % math behind it, the engine thinks you only healed x/modifiers. so 1000 healing counts as a minimum of 1000 and therefor you can heal nearly infinite.
Which means that every skill, technology, attribute whatever that increases healing cap also reduced the effective healing number, without taking into account that your healing is insanely large on the battle map.
I may be wrong, but it seems like there is one common healing pool for the entire army. And every specific unit can access it individually...
What's really crazy, even without any magic, or other units healing them, jusr ravenous dead alone that is like 44 healing per second. 0.4% on 11k hp is 44, just for being in melee. Of course that can resurect models, but it makes sure they are always topped off so invocation of nehek will.
To check the actual cap, you could attack a walled settlement, place a zombie unit in riring arc of a tower and Ghorst nearby out of arc. And just wait and let the passive healing do it's thing. If it heal quick enough you don't even need to sit at the computer :)
Thanks for the video
Given how passive the AI is in immortal Empires, we're gonna see a bunch of doomstacks fighting in cathay
Its gonna be weird like... People used to install mods to make the AI less aggressive/player biased in ME.
Now people are probably going to install mods to do the exact opposite in IE.
It would be straight up retarded for CA to remove free skeleton spam because "it made the remaining roster obsolet" only to then replace it with an unkillable zombie spam for Ghorst. This performance can't be the intended result.
why seems perfectly balanced before you had free spearman spam now you spam zombies with an upkeep of 8 who can conquer hole citiys alone :D
Now only one faction has the unstoppable horde of trash units flavor and other factions can focus something else so that every vampire counts campaign wouldn't be the same skeleton spam experience.
Its just one lord compared to the entire faction tho.
CA has shown that they're not exactly the "thinking things through" kinda game developers. They only make decisions based on feedback they get, so new features or new changes are usually either useless or completely OP until someone points it out to them.
I mean you can still do skeleton spam. Especially with the upkeep reductions for them you should be able to afford like 3 or 4 skelly stacks for every regular mixed VC army.
It was really ridiculous to make a unit completely free of upkeep, almost as retarded as introducing healing caps in the first place.
I think it might be the fact that it can regen killed entities, so it can effectively regen infinitely as long as it isn't entirely wiped out, because when a entity is brought back it adds the health of the entity to the health pool of the unit.
Kugath: I fear no man, no elf, no dwarf
but that thing
"Braaiiiiinnnnns...."
It scares me
My naive guess would be that stacking the healing modifiers triggers some integer overflow, making it infiite.
That was my first guess too, but to my knowledge it usually occurs with 2^x numbers, but I don't know CA's code, so it can easily be the thing. 1000% multiplier shouldn't nessesarily break it imo. Healing might be applied wierdly, like counting each models not the whole unit or something.
The games definitely has integer overflows (game 2 at least). I did make one of my Eltharion campaigns unloadable due to breaking money cap....
That would result in a negative number. However with a float type variable you could do something similar, if the number would be even bigger(if the values to add or subtract are to small, then they won't do anything).
The number was changing so it wasn't necessarily an overflow problem. It just seemed like the number is so absurd there is no way to run out before the battle is over.
The fact that the number was 1 127 xxx makes me think there's been an integer overflow, it's a common bug in games where you numbers go too far up or down and you get virtually infinite.
Would be hilarious if wh3 pulls a Gandhi
But then the number wouldnt fluctuate
An unsigned 16bit integer would go to 65535 before overflowing, if the healing pool is by total unit health rather model health then having a 600% healing pool could make it overflow in theory.
If you went up against two or three stacks of armies with high burst damage (damage dealers supported by artillery with explosive damage and casters with something like pit of shades or a good wind spell), you'd probably reach the limit of this army. Either way, it's quite impressive.
So, here are my final thoughts. I think CA should probably make some adjustments to discourage people from mindless (hehe) zombie spam by changing the Ghorst tech tree in a way that would let the zombies synergize with other units.
What i think might be going on, is that the healing cap is global based on the health pool of every unit, not just an independant cap for each. As far as i could perceive the number was going down even on units which were not taking damage, and the combined health pools of 19 zombies would be around 250k HP, do the normal, additive regen cap % on that, which would be around 600-700% , and it would get close to what we were seeing. Don't have the exact numbers, but it does make sense.
well, a zombie unit has 12000 health... 75% of that would be 9000 healing cap... if the battle healing cap additions were just cumulative... that would be about what +650%(+500% + 50%; skill + 100%; research; if there aren't others) so (6.5 + 1) * 9000... that would be 67500 healing cap... not counting the intitial 12000
@@lemmejustreadthethings Where do you get this garbage. The lowest storage medium they would be using is int32 which has a limit 2.1b when signed and 4.2 when unsigned. We aren't even close to "can't handle" territory.
@@ruukinen Nice, got to love internet people.
It kinda looks to me like the regen cap is for the whole army? or mabey all units in each army?Since it was always the same on all zombies...
Just know this works, makes me happy. I've been wanting to do a Zombie only run, and knowing this now, I think I'm just going to go ahead with it.
This whole video is Legend learning the new best strategy/cheese for Vampire Counts.
Any chance of revisiting this now that the healing cap is fixed? Curious to see if it still holds up
Would be cool if the undead recruitment pool changed into the undead of different races based on the local culture.
I believe only humans got cursed. No other races can become undead
@@Gorbachoph Nah, there's all sorts of undead in the lore.
@@xensonar9652 Source?
@@Gorbachoph The books mainly. Skaven have been raised from the dead in their thousands, and there's even an undead dwarf in one book. But in the game too, you've got undead dragons, horses, bats, etc.
"We dont want to make the same mistakes
No... no you are making new ones"
Ian Malcolm
Its actually lore friendly and fun seriously, the took our toys away but we just didn't found the brand new they brought us
My recommendation for a second hero is a necromancer. Specifically on a balefire corpse cart. It gives your whole army magic attacks, boosts your winds, gives you a second healer while ghorst is on cooldown - and most importantly gives your army fire resistance, which comes in extremely handy against the chorfs, Imrik and anyone else who has access to pyromancy. The more damage you can negate, the better.
I hope they didn't change this I wanna to try it myself
I really hope this doesn't get fixed lol, it makes zombies actually fun to use
Okay the "160 Prince Phillips" got me laughing out loud
Lore friendly too. There have been incidents of people attacking zombies and the wound knitting itself shut right in front of their eyes.
Actually looks like it could be fun, shame it'll be nerfed into the ground. I'll have to make the most of it until then!
I hope they don't nerf it. Only affects campaign and is hilariously fun.
Why would they nerf it, player can destroy within minutes
lmao this needs to be nerfed bro
@@paulywalnutz5855 Lmao, no it doesn't bro. Doesn't affect MP, is exclusive to one lord and is fun.
Not a game breaking exploit like the backspace baug.
CA: did anybody say FUN? Nerfhammer it is!
Whenever I see some fun strat I'm just waiting for CA to nerf it to the ground
This is a really great army formation, my Mazdamundi would love this formation, a few spells and the army is history!
@legendoftotalwar My personal thought on what may be happening. They may have changed "healing cap" from a per-unit thing to an army wide math. So here is some math.
19 x 13000 = 247k
if we multiply this by 75% to account to figure out the 'normal regen' we get:
185,250
Then if we factor in the 50% bonus, the 100% bonus and the 500% bonuses from tech tree and character skills for a total of 650% regen cap:
185,250 * 6.5 = 1,204,125 HP
So that is my reasoning behind thinking that when the regen cap is displayed, it is showing the total army regen value, and perhaps that entire value can be sunk into a single unit. They may have done this to simplify regeneration tracking as a whole, so that individual units no longer need to track damage taken and regenerated, etc. It can just subtract from the general pool of healing. Obviously I haven't done any math here for the leader, as I don't know his cap modifiers etc.
Yeah... So this is a bit 2 powerfull for how low effort this is.
He basically did nothing out of the ordinary, no trait stacking, no item stacking, no hero stacking, no money paid, no nothing.
Just the Ghorst skill tree.
CA: "Let's nerf the VC so you can no longer just skelly spam the entire campaign"
Also CA: "Infinite heal cap zombies are fine."
Glad I'm not the only one who finds this absurd. I'm still mad at CA for even introducing the healing cap, it was so much fun to infinitely heal my graveguard and wraiths in campaign.
And now 3 games later they're basically removing the healing cap for *one* lord which was one of the shittiest legendary lords in their past 2 games.
@@Khalkara Bro.
The healing cap should be in the game by all accounts. If it's not there most heal factions like Nurgle and Vampire counts would be literally unkillable.
Making Campaigns trivial and boring and PvP even more imbalanced than it already is.
Just stop introducing weird bugged skills that make the healing cap infinite or break other fundamental gameplay mechanics.
@@Khalkara they introduced it because Vlad in WH1 is pretty much unkillable. Plus it would be a huge design limiting mechanic where you can't ever design a good single entity with it having access to regeneration/heal spell
I would love to go against this army. The real problem is the AI went with no range, lord sniping, spells, or arty.
@@esra013 Pretty sure they introduced the healing cap before vlad was even added? But even then, he's not unkillable just very hard to kill which a ton of lords are.
You absolutely could design a good single entity w/o having it access to regeneration/heal spell, what are you talking about?
Factions in TW3 are already going to be limited by the amount of magic you can have. So you can't literally infinitely heal units, you will simply run out of magic.
And depending on how your army is built you probably could have won much faster if you used that magic instead on damage spells like WoD.
Plus in this very video Legend shows that you can relatively easily out DPS the passive healing these zombies get, meaning unless you want to spend magic they can die.
I really don't think people like you have thought the actual implication of a healing cap through, it serves no purpose other than to limit fun builds.
They don't limit single entity doomstacks, which as Legend has proven time and time again is the strongest way to play and makes your armies effectively undefeatable. So why should they limit healing, if it supposedly only makes 1 character super hard to kill in the VC roster?
This makes Ghorst so much fun to play . Sadly CA will nerf this to the ground next patch .
Helman Ghorst has joined the battle. He summons zombies.
*Standing here I realise* starts playing.
this felt like legend finding a new toy and he loves it