Rating a Vargulf Doomstack
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2021
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Why did a Varghulf just get deleted at 4:30?
sometimes when an arcane phoenix is killed it explodes and kills a nearby monster. It's really irritating and difficult to avoid. It's usually best to shoot a phoenix down, which is virtually impossible for VC, or just shatter it and let it leave the battlefield. Or kill it with infantry (as if they would be able to)
yeah it looked weired
Another one 5:44
@@RedAngelzx nice spot, I missed that one
@@LegendofTotalWar
That is quiet strong!
I think Varghulfs do have a sentimental attachment to them in that we all spent our early days in TWW1 learning how to play stuck in some battle with Mannfred and the varghulf back to back killing off 1,000 enemy skeletons to pull out the win.
Its like that friend that you've outpaced but you keep him along because of the loyalty you have to what they did for you.
Oddly specific but I fully agree. My early boiz earned a place in the hall of fame.
This doomstack is also very potato PC friendly compared to skeleton spam
That is what I was thinking about lol, like in game not as important, in real life, really important
I was about to comment that, my poor potato cant handle more than 1 army of skeleton at a time on low graphic and thats if i dont stack them 🤣
As if total war games can be played on any console at this point
Hurray for potato-friedly setups!
Tried skelespam once, helped a lot during the mid-game, but then transitioned out as fast as I could into monsters and heroes.
Some sister of Avelorn: "They are so fluffy I'm gonna die! :3"
@fucku weebsnfuries Kawaii UwU.
@fucku weebsnfuries yamerooo (>_
@fucku weebsnfuries
Notices your bulgy wolgy O w O
@fucku weebsnfuries OwO wats dis? UmU :3
@fucku weebsnfuries nico nico knee
Coming to a vampire keep near you, "Swiftly, At once! Swiftly, At once! Swiftly, At once!" the hot new remix of Isabella Von Carstein's hit single "Swiftly! Quickly! Swiftly! Quickly!"
Those are related to vampire unsexuality. It's very lore friendly... ;-)
Necromancer: summons zombies on a half-health archer unit
AI: casts two freakin chain lightnings on them deleting its own archers
These doomstack videos are great
For real, I've been loving this series.
Probably better than expected. They're not amazing monsters but they are comparatively small, so they'll bunch up really well and concentrate their damage while minimising the damage taken from being mobbed.
Vargulfs have great attack animations and the highest attack speed in the game. So they're better that what their WS may suggest. Really their biggest multiplayer weakness is leadership, so why they're only 1400 gold unit, and in campaign it can be fixed.
And they're actually quick single entity monsters too, so they can kind of kite and pick good fights.
@@orionzeden Yep that is why it got a 7.5/10(fair), however considering that you have better and cheaper options, it is not as good.
They work great with skelly spam since anti-single entity is an issue abd their mass lets them manouvre easily through the blob but they have a hard time surviving on their own.
Small fast regenerating single entitie monsters what more whould you ever want of the poor mans brood horror
Magic is good at killing infantry, varghulf is good at killing big units. seems pretty decent overall.
Yeah I feel like Legend is slightly underrating it. Well... I guess the revised 7.5 seems fair. But it comes back to that question of whether we're rating effectiveness or efficiency. Because it was surprisingly effective (albeit micro intensive) but is not really an efficient use of resources.
Not to mention varghulfs are a lot easier to manage in battle than 4 stacks of skeletons that would take to replace them. Also, I would say they are easier to keep alive and heal, since it's easier to heal 15 units than 50.
@@Bl4ckheart Well, usually you're not literally going to play 4 skeleton stacks on top of each other. At most you'll tag team with 2 armies at once, typically.
The economics of skeleton spam are sort of interesting, because if you go that route you really need to go all-in on that strategy, at least if you are playing on very hard or legendary campaign difficulty. Because your supply lines penalty is going to be sky-high, so even one strong army stack like this one will end up being staggeringly expensive. Skeleton spam begets skeleton spam.
@@doktarr Fair point, but I meant more like how many skeleton stacks would take to meet the effectiveness of these varghulfs.
Anyway, I play SFO, where skeletons aren't free like in vanilla. I find myself using zombies a bit more than skeletons, because both are for holding lines, but zombies are cheaper, I can raise them in battle and I have 0 regret putting winds of death or vortex over them to kill enemies.
To be fair though, I have never tried stacks of skellies, so maybe I'm underestimating them. It's just that with each army, your upkeep goes up, so then you need more lords and armies to have enough skeletons to do the work.
@@Bl4ckheart supply lines don't matter much (in vanilla) for skele spam, since they're free. They're are just a ridiculously cost efficient army, that you can spam out tons of and it doesn't matter if one or two dies, there's always more to replace them. The combo of free chaff unit and ultra powerful heroes/lords that can spam wind of death around the skeles is very powerful. Hence why this stack isn't so good in comparison. The only real issue with skele spam..is the variety. Of which there isn't much, because of supply lines if you get an army like this, along a bunch of skele spam armies, the cost is astronomical. So honestly, this army loses on most factors to skele spam, but wins out on fun and variety.
So Arcane Phoenix is just a High Elves' Bloated Corpse?
But much more useful
@@vitaliitomas8121 you sayin bloated corpses aren't
@@amandag.6186 Bloated corpse blows up once, that's it. Arcane phoenix does all the shit he does *and* can blow up. It's not that BC aren't useful, it's that they have very specific function
@@vitaliitomas8121 I imagine the corpse splosion is a lot less destructive then the bloated corpses just due to the fact the bloated corpse can probably kill off an entire death stack of infantry if they are blobed up enough
Just now realizeing the vampire counts are weak against the vampire coast ironically
Love the fantasy Vargulf model,
This doomstack is also autoresolve friendly if you don't have the luxury to play every single battle manually. Skeleton spam... sure cost efficient only if you got like infinite hours to play the game.
Varg means wolf in most nordic languages. Ulf (or ulv) is the old word for wolf. Vargulf basically means "Wolfwolf" lol.
4:30 - 4:32 a Vargulf goes down, I think it was the Feniks - from full ot 0 in a second .. The next goes down 5:48 ONE SECOND, wow is this some ability I don't know about?
Love the Vampire Counts, but Skeleton stacks are really annoying when playing at 1 fps and every battle takes like 50 minutes. I guess Varghulfs help in that regard
Doesn't the Von Carsein vampire lords get access to a 50% upkeep reduction for Varghulf? I seem to recall that being the case at least.
Could be wrong but I think it's Vargheists. I think fell bats and dire wolves as well.
Did anyone else just see a vargulf just suddenly disappear?
Von Disciplined and Von Knowledgeable are really doing it for me
This stack is definitely an answer to factions that use a lot of single entities in the VC post campaign victory.
Yeah maybe stuff like lizards, high elves, norsca etc. would be the thing this stack is fairly good against. I still spam skeleton armies but have some higher tier stacks in there to add some extra punch and variety to the campaign. Of course early game all you really need is skeleton spam, and in the late campaign you could argue that only ever against armies that destroy infantry spam armies, could the skeleton spam be bad. Of course you need to deal with empire and dwarfs early on, which depending on how fast you are, maybe they'll have armies with hellstorm rocket battery, maybe not, if so then you might want to be a bit careful, but otherwise should be fine.
DoomStack videos are peaking my interest to start playing again. Thank you
I can confirm that a wight king spam ie very effective as long there's either legendary necromancer and maby one sternsman guard.
In my experience varghulfs wreck infantry if you keep them moving between targets. It also avoids any single of one of them taking too much damage at any one time so they can heal up. Works well against dwarves too. Even slayer spam.
Blood leach: "At once, Swiftly."
I am not sure skeleton spam is all that effective vs HE. Especially if they start spamming dragons. Sure they are super cheap, but you can still only bring 40 units into a battle.
Vargulfs are ok at punching single entities, they are small enough to clump up and avoid getting deleted by arrows. They get enemies to clump for wind or pit.
I'd agree that Wightkings are probably better, but you can only get so many of those. And with 100000k income you might as well go Vargulf if it can beat 3 late game high elf stacks with minimal damage apart from arcane Phoenix deletion.
Terrorgeists with necromancers is my favourite combo tbh, wind of death, invocation (if one gets isolated) and all those breath attacks!
This is one I was legitimately curious about.
I thought this performed pretty convincingly, actually! Would also be decent in sieges, both defensively and offensively. That said, I have always had a crush on Varghulfs ;)
Multiplayer and campaign are two totally different things, but something about the varghulf's hitbox and animations seem to make it hard for larger monsters to hit it and gives it an easier time hitting them back. I feel like I've seen a few multiplayer battles where varghulfs absolutely trash other big monsters and monster-killers, things like Hell Pit Abominations (not that those are particularly great to start with, but still). They certainly seem to be punching a tier or two above their weight class, even if their weapon strength isn't quite as high.
As someone else pointed out, the varghulfs seem suited to killing big monsters while the casters are there to shred the infantry. If nothing else, with their smaller hitbox and access to plenty of regen, they can tank pretty effectively while hitting back decently hard.
Well, I don't know about you guys or LegendofTotalWar, but it seems to perform much better than my regular VC army of Graveguards, Blood knights, Mortis Engines, and Terrorgheist. I'm sold on this doomstack.
SWIFTLY! AT ONCE!
thinking about it i do like this doom stack ( regardless how i feel about varghulf cause I love them ) the varghulfs are there for the single entities to deal with them cause magic is bad at that but the wizards are there to deal with the mass infinitry which makes it a balanced army but not spread out and such. So actually the varghulfs are not a bad choice for this army.
ive found that the curse of years is useful in battles like this especially when its really cheap and combined that with other abilities
I feel like the Necromancer is on a horse to keep up with the Varghulfs, in order to boost their regen, while the Vamp's are supposed to be in melee with them to increase their awful Leadership with Dark Benediction. While it's true that you're better off using WoM for damage dealing spells, a Death magic Vamp can increase the Varghulf's Leadership (with VC Leadership kind of equates to HP) while reducing the enemy's Leadership, and improving their combat effectiveness by reducing enemy Armour and Base Weapon Damage, in an army that's spreading Terror everywhere. The Withering and Soulblight together reduce enemy Armour by 60, which would make the Varghulfs perform much better. Drop Occam's Mindrazor on top of them and I think most things would crumble... unlike the Varghulfs which would be almost unbreakable.
I can't see what benefit the Lahmian provides. Isabella, however, gives Varghulfs +12 Leadership and +12 Melee Attack which would give these guys the potential to be around 100 Leadership and 95-ish Melee Attack.
While Wight Kings might be better at tanking so you can drop Wind of Death, their max Melee Attack is the same as the Varghulf's base.
In short, I think this is an army that's meant to show off how strong Varghulfs can be, not just another way of blobbing up enemies for Wind of Death.
I like to do half vargulf, half grave guard (great weapons) for my vampire doomstacks. (Excluding heroes).
I tend to go 2-4 vagulfs plus skeles spam. but I always go Barrow Legion for the free necromancers. Fill up sylvania with them boosting income and you got plenty of cash to work with.
The varghulfs were quick enough to move strategically and regen when you retreated. You didn't need to focus all your winds on healing either because of that. I think someone could find a way to optimise it but I kind of like it. Using magic on an enemy frontline that's engaged with your dirt cheap frontline will always yield better results, but this could fill an anti-large role. Will have to play VC sometime and check out what they've got again.
"Death is like the winter chill;no door can keep it from us,and summer may yet bloom again,the ice be upon us, No worries the necromancer will find you.
"I'm not taking into account the fun" ...2 seconds later... "I Don't feel the same satisfaction," Hmmmm
he's mentioning it but it doesnt figure into the ratings
I assume
Let's test these vargulfs.
> Pit of Shades! Winds of Deaths! Pit of Shades! Winds of Deaths!
> Victory is in our grasp
Ok, let's send vargulfs in.
The only time I'd use something like this would be in an emergency when raising the dead to cobble together an Army.
That wind of death cast!!!
I would love to see someone attempt the true doomstack.... carrion spam XD
*caw caw intensifies*
@@Riwillion I wish something like that whould kill an army without losing everyone
This army is imo a rock paper cissors one to kill SE you use the Varghulfs while you delete infantry (which is the Varghulf's weakness) with magic
SE?
@@davidthane9002 Single Entities
At @ 4:31 -> 1 Var just disapears/gets deleted from rooster WHILE Phönix is droping from Air onto the ground with STILL EHP LEFT.
_- You can still see the Phönix HpBar, at the top mid left of the cluster of units._
*No unit* exploded or casted active/passive an visible ability.
_- You can actualy SEE the EHP BAR of the Var, drop down from 100 to 0 within 1-2sec, on the unit on field, not on bar!! Lke smt sucking EHP out hard._
Conclustion; Phönix first Atk, after droping down from Air, bugged a INSTA kill/EHP Burn down until death.
Phönix is still alive, low EHP, at 4:34 , after Var is dead 1sec ago.
And dies at 4:51 -> Explotion at 4:52
*Note:*
_- EHP = Effective Health Points_
remember that Phoenix has a chance to revive. This elven army had 2 arcane phoenixes. While you see the one approaching, you cannot really see a 2nd one.
Animation at 4:34 with some flames right before "unit wiped out" indicator shows up on the ground - that is 2nd Phoenix dying and reviving.
Look at 4:36 - you can see 2 phoenixes. The one just landed has like 10% of hp and to the top of the blob.
There is a 2nd phoenix right below the yellow indicator that unit got wiped out.
That phoenix is walking away by ground with 50%hp.
That means that phoenix has died, blew up and resurrected with 50%hp.
@@Xrono666 checking
@@Xrono666 at 4:28 you see both Phönixs. 1 in Air, Top/Mid and one Topish/Very Left.
It dies 4:29
Right under the targeted Var.
Var dies *1 SEC* after it dies.
Flame/Explotion visible at arround 2sec later. Was hard to notic the explotion tbh. gj buddy.
Killing the Var, interrupted the Rebirth by arround 1sec later as it should.
Lets be honest, vampire counts strongest doomstack is Manfred with no backup to weigh him down
You talking about some poor mans malus dark blade with sword of khain or something
@@necfreon6259 *laughs in high elf*
@@animewarrior3 don’t you mean dark elf
Bro skeleton spam IS(/are) the VC doomstack(s), without a doubt. Literally just stack 10 armies for total upkeep of like ~3000 and then crush enemies under waves and waves of bones. Bonus points for sending in vampires to shred literally any unit in melee
Skeleton stacks for manual, Blood Knights for autoresolve cheese.
Once you're making 50k+ a turn then why would you want to keep using skelly spam?
@@OSEsean Switch to full vamp stacks. Quicker and more amusing to watch
@@OSEsean but I mean once you're making 50k a turn, do whatever the hell you want, the AI can't stop you
@@Nanaman720 ye it's just weird sometimes when legend says the army costs too much, then after the battle on the campaign screen you see the person is making 100k a turn like here.
the biggest problem with skeleton spaming is supply lines. if you have a lot of skeleton armies you will have to pay thousands if you want to have an armie with anything else. this will lead to you only being able to get more skeleton armies. It kind of limits how you can play the faction. For this reason I really like to see what other options Vampire counts might have, BUT it is very clear that skeleton spam is the superior way to play them.
Vampire counts kind of get screwed no matter what you do. Skeleton spam starts to become useless past turn 60-70 even if you stack 3 or 4 armies of them on very hard and legendary campaign. But the rest of their unit roster is kind of garbage and the one decent single entity they have is terrorgheists but those cost a ton relative to how bad their economy is. You can spam vampire heroes as them but realistically you're only ever going to have 1 army of that.
Maybe they'll get an update in game 3 because they're a pretty outdated weak race compared to most other races.
Isabella with dread incarnate vampires. Vlad with dread incarnate other heroes. It's about as close to a dreadstack as you can get.
@@cHaMp630 honestly i don't think skele spam becomes useless past 60-70. It still does what you want it to do which is delay the enemy in a huge blob around you for easy wind of deaths, and vampire counts have such powerful heroes/lords that it's pretty easy to win once you have that. Still I agree they could use an update, although they're not as bad as beastmen, chaos or norsca.
Okay but the strength of this army is in being able to deal with monsters, Vargulfs don't have to be good at killing infantry. You are the vampire counts, infantry is the LAST thing you have to worry about because you have so many incredible wind & vortex spells. Vargulfs are very durable because of their regeneration and the necromancer with master of the dead will stack 8 health regeneration per second.
What do you mean they "died very quickly" ? none of them died while being shot or fighting the infantry. They only died because of the stupid Phoenix thing which Terrorgheists would have died the same way if I understand the mechanic correctly.
Also something Terrorgheists can't do is hide. In field battles you could use that to your advantage and use magic first before letting the AI know where you are.
Also I don't think you had to work very hard for the victory they were barely taking damage and for some reason you felt like you needed to spam click and run away when I think you could have literally just ran at the archers and murdered them.
I agree that within the VC race they don't really stand up to 5 skeleton spam armies (Which I think by your criterea means it can't score a 9 or higher) But a 6 seemed disgustingly low even if 15% physical resistance was all they could get up to. 7.5 sounds better and I'd even say 8 considering this was 2.5 super elite High elf armies.
I don't know why I'm so passionate about this one haha. Just really think it's better than what you're making it out to be. I've recently been playing VC and have had a single vargulf with one vampire take out Karl Franz on Deathclaw because of the massive regen you can put on them (10 hp a second with Necromancer on Unholy lodestone)
Edit: changed unnessecarily strong language lol
Indeed sir.
Also not sure why he did not use the vampire Heros on Hellsteeds to draw out fire instead of the Lord on Dragon.
@@SolNacht Yeah I honestly think he didn't really use the army in the most optimal way
I think the speed and strength against single entities are a big plus for this army. You can probably do a lot with it and punch above it's weight, but that requires lots of micro and space to manouver. I do think that it's interesting how the Vargulfs provide a completely different value to the heroes, as a lot of the time doomstacks are focused on killing infantry, meaing that wizards in the army just double down on that. I'd be extremely interested to see how this did against lizardmen, up to and including a stegadon doomstack. The biggest weakness is definately that one of these basically makes skeleton spam impossible. I could see it being a 8.5 for strength but then getting knocked down a full point back to the 7.5 for that really.
I'd honestly rather have couple grave guard spams than one vargulf spam since Grave guards are actually surprisingly good infantry units. I'd probably also take a hexwraith spam over this one since they have same base upkeep and usually perform a bit better than vargulfs and if you really want monster spam terrogheist is even more expensive but at least from my experience works reasonably well.
Varghulfs do have certain advantages over the graveguard. Because they're single entity, you can cast magic directly on top of them, and wipe out whole swathes of enemies without having to worry about your own. Also, you don't have to worry about enemy artillery, for similar reasons, although cannons can still do some damage. Their excellent speed also gives them a nice advantage, particularly when paired with regen. You can charge in, do a bunch of damage, get off some good spell casts and then pull out, similar to what legend did in this video. That way your mana pool and abilities can recharge, and the regen on the varghulfs can heal them up, then you can pick and choose your re-engagement, perhaps on an isolated unit or important unit, or just a good blob so you can get off some decent spell casts. They also have excellent mass to assist moving around the battlefield easily, and are very decent at picking off single entity units, while your mages take out infantry blobs, so i'd argue the varghulf spam outperforms graveguard spams fairly well. Hexwraith spam is very good in the field, but has issues in sieges compared to varghulfs.
Terrorgheist spam is solid, but as you said is more expensive, plus is a higher tier so recruitable later. They also have a bit of an issue with being such a big target, and sometimes struggle to get out of blobs as easily as varghulfs.
Should there be a rating penalty for how many of these doomstacks boil down to "Rate my Spellcaster"?
A lot of these are exclusively blob the entities and dump spells on them.
I dont mean that to be snarky either, im just not sure what constitutes the "doom" in doomstack.
Is it the make-up(sisters) or the stacks ability to hold things in place for the casters(Skelles)?
I suppose both is the answer.
I dunno, I just think I enjoy say, the Crushing Nobles more then Caster proxy
Yup. Mages did 90% of the work here. The vargulfs didn't provide anything other than being mobile enough to group and run away and let the heroes and lord do their thing.
Armies rated on 'Funness' would be cool
@TheMacel66 or some ikit weapon team max nuke combo
i do not like this army but i am a fan of putting 1 varg in each army for siege attacker to stand next to skellys but tbh i pref the flyer as they can deal with archers and troops on castle walls better.
4:31 Gone in one second...
Wait whut 😳
Phoenix death bug
Vargulf: im inevitable
Phoenix: and i im arcane phoenix
Is the hellsteed better in every situation? Like for example, I already have a vampire hero with a hellsteed, why would I need another one for arrow fire if I can also use a dragon? Purely for the melee damage it suffers too?
It comes down to how you play, but dragons are really big targets and having more characters that can dodge arrows never hurts. Having more mobility to mess around with the AI never hurts. On the other hand, it often becomes a bit of a liability to have an enormous target slowly floating about like a zerg gasbag in StarCraft. And on legendary difficulty, which is the only thing Legend is playing, you don't really want to go into melee unless you have to, which reduces the usefulness of a dragon mount significantly.
Also, I really don't think Legend is ever going to play VC without pushing towards several hundred WOM, so any blobs where a dragon has an advantage are going to get murdered with magic, and single targets can then get swarmed by hellsteeds. So it's not that dragons are "that bad" necessarily, but I think Legend just has a style of play where they're just overall less useful.
I do wanna see a Wright doomstack.
Is that a bug or intentional for the arcane phoenix to kill a single entity when it dies?
I think all Phoenixes have a deathblow
@@jessblues848 nah, they have a chance to come back from the dead themselves, not a chance to instakill an enemy unit. There's nothing in their description or abilities that says anything similar, so I reckon it's just a bug.
Imagine what happen if this army have Vlad in command
Wouldn't you need to play them sort of like skaven brood horrors?
Feral Carnosaur have a very attractive 75 speed, so I am wondering if they are viable as monster cavalry. Like a a scaly knock-off brood horror with a ball of stats and none of the special features.
So what about putting 2 of them in a Stegadon spam doomstack? Then you have 2:2 abilities to shut the rampage back off, so it is much less of a concern. It puts a bandaid on stegadon's extremely slow speed, letting you run down most things that aren't actually cavalry, and it can still take full advantage of healing. (salty that it uses a different red-line skill from most other dinos).
Seems ok in the pits of normal, what about Legendary?
I think they're alright, but there's a few issues with them. Mainly that the way you want to play them is split from the stack and go chase down high priority units. However, the life slann cannot follow, either to heal or to stop the rampage, since it's slow and needs protection. So although they might be alright for a few battles, the carnosaurs would often end up dead, and you would need to go back to a t5 settlement to resupply them, which would be a pain. I don't think there's anything wrong with using it for variety, I often put in extra units to have more fun, and try them out, but I don't think its' better than the standard.
What about a Vargeist doomstack ? I use them in normal and they shred the enemy line but I don't know if they're usefull in legendary.
just try them in custom battle on high battle difficulty against phoenix guard =)
Would this army work better if it was on Small Unit scale?
4:31 blinked and dead
Blood knights, blood knights doomstack
This army has the speed advantage but lacks the toughness and strength to cut the enemies
As we saw that was the spells who saved this army not the vargulfs so i think they did the minimal job
But the biggest advantage for the vargulfs aside from their speed that allowed to get distance from enemy infantries and even most of the heavy cavalries is the fact that they are single entity units and that will save them from lots of AOE spells and magic in general but at the end vampire counts doesn't have any kind of great monsters to use as a doomstack as legend most of the times described their true power is their heroes and lords not their crappy units so every player will go after hero spams when playing as vampire counts and these kind of spams are just working as meme for players
I myself played the borrowed legion and tend to recruit their shitiest type of lords(strigoy bloodline) just for a crypt horror meme army
And also if anybody wants to go for cargulfs or vargheists or terrorgheists should use isabella cuz she has great buffs for these type of units
But i think nobody will waist Isabella for some crap spam when she can lead the real vampire doomstack
And also Legend mentioned that vargulfs are ok against dragons and phoenixes but are weak against infantries...Hey legend you missed a fact for judging them you almost forget that you sent 15 vargulf against 1 phoenix and that's obvious they will surely kill that thing but trust me 1 on 1 any type of phoenix will kick the crap out of the vargulfs and even terrorghiests specially flame version and arcane version
I tested them so many times and witnessed they ripped to shreds by the phoenixes
Generally the high elves in campaign are the banes of the vampires i can't forget the dark times they made for me in my campaign
Well, I am sad because I was intending to do this in my Barrow Legion game, but it does not look that powerful, though my campaign should be able to achieve something like this by turn 75-80. However, I was gonna mix Varghulfs with Vagheists.
One advantage of only running regenerating entities is that you can basically ignore attrition though
Do consider that Legend is intentionally playing this battle a bit inefficiently. And that includes just dumping the varghulfs into a role as brawlers that isn't really what they do best.
They're very fast units and they're very small, all things considered, so in my view they're much better used to tactically gang up on any single thing 5v1, hammer it big time, then rush on to the next thing. This way the varghulfs don't get bogged down, don't lose leadership, don't have to suffer extended melee that they lack the defensive attributes for, and they get to use their speed and their charge bonus. They are essentially undead brood horrors with less speed and no warp bomb, but then VC has invocations and WOD, so I'm not sure there's much of a deficit overall.
Terrorgheist Doomstack next
I wonder if using the Vanhel's Danse Macabre would make the Varghulfs a bit more effective?
Well of course it would, but not really very meaningfully. Their weakness is not due to having too low MA or WS, it is due to not being able to hit too many entities at once. And even if you spent WoM to make them kill slightly more infantry, you could have used those WoM to case AoE spells that would have killed like 20 times more at least. The main reason terrorgheist spam is better than vargulf spam is because terrorgheists are actually exceptionally good versus large and single entities, whereas varghulfs are more well-rounded, sort of. Which kinda sucks, since your anti-infantry needs are already 100% fulfilled by your magic. Don´t need units to kill infantry, you need them to kill large/single units.
It would however make sense to cast it on them if there are multiple varghulfs fighting multiple single entities, or maybe even some cavalry/monstrous infantry units.
7/10 imo.
Like you said...it was in large unit scale and the armies were slightly damaged.
Legend is pretty generous with the rating, tbh. Jumping up the rating so much because of future potential bonuses in the campaign.
Wight king doomstack would be interesting
I would argue that if it was the magic that won the day, Vampires don't really have a doomstack, but they can functionally create one with just getting a good lord, 3 good heroes, and slapping together 16 expensive units. Basically, an improvement of skeleton spam, but keep the Vampires' strengths: their magic. So in one sense this works like a 10/10 doomstack even if it's not exactly one since the Vargulf spam aren't doing much.
The best doomstack for vampire counts is either 18 vampire heroes in the army or 18 wight kings, plus a necromancer hero. 13-14 Grave guard great weapons + loadstone mounted necromancer + 3-4 vargheists + a flying lord + 1 mortis engine is probably the best army stack that isn't skele spam or hero spam for them. Still get the benefits of blobbing up but you wont be a complete sitting duck for range units nor things like black orcs that aren't as affected by winds of death because of their loose formation.
WTF I didn't know Arcane Phoenixes could straight up kill a monster like that!
Not only are they annoying as fuck with their higher than expected mass, fast, strong in combat, regen their life almost all the time but also can delete a single entity.
That's legit broken as fuck.
its fun watching an army submitted that obviously has a play style to use, but its not legends way to play it. So all I can imagine is the submitter screeching in rage at it being used "wrong"
See Legend, if you are looking for more practical doomstacks, then using them in their intended way is what would be required as per me.
@Jean Sanchez vampires for infantry and vargs for big ass monsters/lords etc
@Jean Sanchez No? Why should dismount them?
@Jean Sanchez np
@Jean Sanchez this was the way to use them. Heavy micro and take on 4 armies. Only trait hero spam can stand in one place. If those aren't allowed then these are what's left I guess.
It was much better then what i fought first
honestly the key to any doom stack is just wizards u can make anything a doom stack with wizards the other units dont really matter
Empire wizards aren't very good for doomstacking, they sucks in meele even with flying mounts
Nice
That doesn't smell like a good doomstack. Let's see
Well to be fair I don't think Vargulf bathe very often, at least not in water.
@@fabiosordo5313 :D fair enough
I don't even recruit Varghulf's when i play the Vampire Count, for their cost they feel really underpowered compared to similar monsters in other armies. They more useful back in the first game when they had less competition and had not been as nerfed.
Varghulfs are great when you go up against really tanky, low-model units, like Treekin. Because only VC lack good AP and have trouble with monsters. Drycha can be a real pain the in the ass with 10 Treeman and same crapstacks on turn 30
@@Bubbl3Bubbl3gum I tend to use Crypt Horrors to deal with annoying high armour units. Not that they feel very good either most of the time. It's so tough now dealing with armies like Black Orc spam unless you kill them with just magic.
@@matthewsarson6934 I noticed that Wind of Death does not kill any Black Orc entities. They just have too much health. Greenskins are definitely one of the hardest opponents VC can face.
@@Bubbl3Bubbl3gum In my opinion Greenskins melee infantry got buffed a bit too much. Especially Black Orcs which they can spam very early on in the game.
Can't you dodge Sisters of Avalon with the dragon? You might as well get the mount with the better stats if you can dodge with both mounts.
You can, but it's much more difficult and requires more micro, and even then there's a good chance some missiles will still hit you. Hellsteeds are such a smaller target that even without dodging against normal archers a sizeable amount of the missiles will miss, with dodging it's really easy to fly rings around the enemy army without a scratch, whereas dragons almost always take some damage just because of their large model.
Swiftly! At once!
Vampire Doomstack Tier:
Skellies
Skellies
Skellies
Vampires
How did you get a 93 kiss of death in turn 153. It's amazing
I think they used the turn 7 lvl 40 vampires
Extra thicc vampires
I assume ultra army size makes single units weaker?
Bro we need more hoi4 campiagns
i actually think it would have been better to just rush them in since you kind of relied so much on the wizards it was hard to evaluate... idk, it seemed to me they did really well when they actually fought but there wasnt much of that
6/10 not bad
4:30 vargulf dying was right before zombies were summoned it seems to be a bug ...nvm got the answer no bug..
actually i'm pretty sure it is a bug, just one connected to the arcane phoenix rather than a general game bug.
From 6 to 7.5 due to Nagashazar not being built? Thought it was supposed to be 1 point not 1.5. 7.5 seems a bit high for this stack considering the mages did all the work not really the Vargulfs. With that said lowering points because you lost 2 due to Arcane Phoenixes is unfair as that's 100% RNG and will happen no matter what when RNG goes against you. Still a 6.5-7/10 with all being said would have been a fairer score Imho.
A strong, powerful army is not necessarily a doomstack. A Doomstack would be an army that is so ridiculously easy to use that you can have the worst player around and he has a hard time losing with that army in most cases. Sure, an army is not unbeatable, but if it beats most situations with little hassle then it should qualify.
If we take this into consideration, can a micro-intensive army actually be a doomstack? So, I'd argue that if an army does not reach a certain threshhold, like 3 out of 10 points, it gets its doomstack title even revoked.
Do you think LOTR total war is plausible after Warhammer saga?
Y'know it IS possible. There's always a LOTR mod for any appropriate TW game, which proves the potential popularity, and the dev's said two things when Troy was released: that 2021 was going to be a very busy year that includes a new IP.
With that said, I remember from many years ago that the Tolkien estate supposedly limited what was allowed in terms of playing evil characters in LOTRO. That seems to have changed in recent years, though.
I really like Vargulf when playing VC, but they're so squishy... sadness...
The game was designed around Large, right, meaning ultra unit scale is actually an artificial handicap on their performance.
Sadly the game fusses too much about the number of polygons for the models ... which does affect performance a lot ... and those polygons are wasted most of the time because people play from birds-eye view (for the strategic command overview) instead of max. zoomed in. One of the biggest restrictions is the "20 units only" one, which is the reason why "strong units doomstacks" work; if it was like the tabletop version with an amount of points per army ... AND the army had some restrictions for the composition (max. 10% artillery, heroes, monsters, ...) you could actually have the SWARMS of Skavenslaves or Goblins which should be possible ... in ONE army.
I love Vargulfs but yeah, this is a 7 at best.
Oh jesus. I play SFO and Vargulfs are terrifying with that mod. Nothing like vanilla but now i'm scared of the AI doing this shit in my campaign.
Lady Dimitrescu and daughters and lorge fluffy bois
Varghulf was great before they get rid of healing cap.
I was thinking 7.5 too, when you said 6 i felt you were lowballing, because you also gave waywatchers 6.