The permeate pump? I had no idea this was happening. We are on metered water so, thinking about the environment and the wasting of water is very important! Thank you for this information.
My name is Mike I have been working with arrows for 30 years the tankless on-demand under sink Ros. The design is flawed whenever you ask for water the minute the unit kicks on you will get a push or TDS Cree getting through the membrane so the more it goes off and on off and on you will keep pushing TDS through the membrane lowering the quality of what's coming out of your tap. Membranes want a longer running time. If you have a tankless sorrow run it for about a glass of water dumped it then fill the next glass should be much better quality
A good video. Some comments: You point out that waste water is an environmental concern, but miss the extreme wastefulness of quick replace cartridges having a big plastic housing that is one time use. Glad you pointed out the (ridiculous!) extra costs of the proprietary filters...I am dealing with that with my Whirlpool, and they have gotten so expensive that I am throwing the system out and starting over!!!!
The standard filters and housings may be more effort to maintain, but as you earlier mentioned being environmentally conscious... The standard filter unit creates much less waste during routine maintenance, and if repairs are needed being able to replace just the broken component is much less wasteful. An R.O. system can be really cheap or a lot more efficient. My R.O. system produces less than 1 gallon of "waste" for each gallon of product at less than 10 TDS when I run long cycles. I think that's pretty good. I'm on a well, with good water at 40-60 PSI pressure. My RO system uses standard 2.5x10 prefilters and an inline post filter (that I've wondered about switching out for a standard housing but the inline lasts a long time). I have a booster pump and a second RO membrane ("staged concentrate") to increase efficiency for a very small increase in TDS. As I'm still well under 10 TDS output, that seems fine. The concentrate goes into my condensate sump where it gets pumped out onto the lawn. I think my next improvement is a non-pressurized storage tank with a distribution pump. Maybe at least 10 up to 20 gallon tank that starts the R.O. when it is about 3/4 empty to automate running long cycles. A first flush addon might also be nice so the initial high TDS output ("TDS creep") would go with the concentrate instead of into the product tank.
Would you mind to share any specifics about your system? I'm interested in installing one as well and would prefer the more traditional type with standard filter sizes.
@@todd77777 I started with the rock bottom cheapest I could find on amazon that looked like (and it did) use standard filters and housings. Expect to pay US$100 to $150. Then I learned more and added on as I identified areas to improve. As I am on a well with variable water pressure, I think the biggest/most important improvement was the booster pump. I tried a "permeate pump" and it didn't seem to do much, especially with the booster pump, so it is now sitting in a box. If you wanted to start with something more pre-made, I'd investigate iSpring and APEC products. I don't have either of them, but they seem like decent quality, supported "generic" equipment. For more independent learning, the salt water fish hobbiests do a lot with reverse osmosis, and I found Bulk Reef Supply to be useful. Note you do not need or want deionization (DI) for drinking water so focus on the reverse osmosis (RO) part of the RODI systems.
Thank you!! After reading your prior comment, I was looking at an "11" stage Express Water system, which appears to be a 7 stage with creative marketing. Claimed output is 100 GPD. iSpring and APEC appear to have similar systems marked 75 GPD for $40-$70 more. Do you believe they are significantly different? I read elsewhere that reminerialization can be hit-and-miss. Do you have any experience with that?
@@todd77777 Express Water systems seem very similar to me. I'd probably never use the company support, so personally I'd go for cheap. I'm skeptical of the added stages... I've looked at a lot of "remineralization filters" but I've not added one. Not sure I can trust what will be added, if anything, by clay balls and rocks - isn't that the same kind of stuff my water already went thru? What, exactly, will end up in my water? As for all the stages... Some have a specific purpose, while others are secondary/backup and maybe optional. Some are more decorative. 4 or 5 stages are the basic: * The reverse osmosis membrane is the special bit. It needs protected against chlorine and other contaminates * a carbon filter provides a lot of protection, so one goes before the membrane * maybe: if your water has chlorine (i.e. most city water) you require at least one really good or probably better add a second carbon filter before the membrane * Carbon filters are expensive, so a cheap particulate (sediment) filter before the carbon can help the carbon work better, longer * Sometimes the water going thru the RO membrane and in the storage tank will pick up a bit of a plastic smell/taste. A carbon filter on the way out to the faucet will remove that That's why on generic systems you see 3 filter canisters (pre-filters, sediment, carbon, carbon), a larger, more tubular (has 3 water lines) that holds the RO, then a smaller tubular for the final "polish" carbon filter. You could start with a 3 stage filter system. Decide if you really need RO. Or if you choose RO now, in a year or two when the RO membranes wear out you could decide that just the 3 stage filtering is enough and bypass the RO and output filter.
Thank you @sylvan-db . Useful info. I understand that generic systems are desired but after researching so many Generic brands and even more expensive are hideous about their certifications most important thing which this video leaves out. Only Aquasana is more upfront about filters but their undersink RO smart flow sucks
Our water comes from a municipal well which filters through lava rock (we live in Idaho, so, we live on a large lava bed.) Very interesting to know that minerals are removed and can be added back in.
Yeah the standard cartridges are much cheaper and easy to acquire but have you ever seen one filter housing blowout cracked from being aged I'm having to replace o-rings or lubricate o-rings with the proprietary cartridge you get all new filter media and the housing and new o-rings on the cartridge so every year you're replacing the parts that stress. You're sacrificing quality with the permeate pump. You're getting TDS creep in the storage tank. So that's a trade-off. I'm not going to say the name of the white one on the left but I have used that unit for 30 years it is the most dependable reverse osmosis system I have ever seen in 30 years and still today is an icon of quality. Now the price we can definitely argue about
His assumption is biased on two things: 1) Faucet and running water 2) RO Membrane Flow Rating. Many people don't want or need the RO water on demand with the Faucet supplying running water. A large 100 GPD membrane can supply .07 GPM/0.25LPM😊 That said, in just 4-5 minutes it will provide an overflowing litre easily. I cook a lot and need approximately 7-9 gallons on hand for boiling and rinsing the spaghetti. Quite frankly I got tired of lifting buckets long ago. I use stainless steel Kegs from the brewery to build both my cold water and hot water storage tanks. I live without heat in a freezing climate. My interior temperature dips below -35f / -37c , so I need to drain back plumbing and pumps, bottle water and store in refrigerator etc.. The drains freeze solid too so I put antifreeze in and wait for warmer days because once the drains freeze it can take three months above 33f/0c to unthaw😊 them.
I’m getting a countertop RO. It’s just about 30$ difference adding the UV to it. I live in a city and I don’t think bacteria is an issue, but for the $30 price would it be worth it getting with UV protection? Any negative that could out of the UV? Like radiation etc?
Do I need a sediment and carbon filter (aka 3stage filter) for my RO system if I already have a wholehouse filter? I was thiking that question so technically I can only run stage 4-6 and reduce cost?
Which system would you recommend for a home with 3 people. Daily, we would only be using purified water for 12 cups of coffee and another gallon per day for drinking. Our water is metered and comes from a small municipal well. I would like to invest in a high quality system that will be easily serviceable by the company who manufacturers it. There is an ample amount of space under the sink. Thank you.
Yes we get what we need from food. It's also bad to have too much water as well. The old 8 glasses a day is actually bs. You just drink what you need. Not part of what you were asking but figured it was helpful info.
Don’t understand why so many think you need to add minerals to your water. When in reality, water is meant too hydrate, food is where we get our minerals!
You loose a lot of credibility when you say,"stay away from the tankless" and give no reasons. It sounds like you have no way to compete against it. Please supply fact based reasons not to buy a tankless system. Maybe a separate video and link pinned to the top.
But it is a potential failure, since it is proprietary is not easy to do maintenance, no upgradability, cost of filters are higher. Most are made overseas and create leaks. It has a good principle since uses the same principle as the fridges but you can replace regular filters with $30 dlls against a minimum of $75 dlls for a 5 stage filter, it is not much but still is not worth the price. I still think it is more practical, I have the home master inline filters and it is a game changer, easier to replace the filter
Spot on. I am only considering tankless and it is the future. Few have the space to contain all of the mass and patience for the maintenance a tank based system comes with.
@@JoeBarbagallo If I upgraded mine probably will be a tankless. What I like about mine is the uses a permeate pump that does not require electricity and in a power outage I still have water not sure if tankless works the same. I still have some bottles of water as a backup
The permeate pump? I had no idea this was happening. We are on metered water so, thinking about the environment and the wasting of water is very important!
Thank you for this information.
Please elaborate on why you think tankless doesn't work. thank you.
My name is Mike I have been working with arrows for 30 years the tankless on-demand under sink Ros. The design is flawed whenever you ask for water the minute the unit kicks on you will get a push or TDS Cree getting through the membrane so the more it goes off and on off and on you will keep pushing TDS through the membrane lowering the quality of what's coming out of your tap. Membranes want a longer running time. If you have a tankless sorrow run it for about a glass of water dumped it then fill the next glass should be much better quality
A good video. Some comments:
You point out that waste water is an environmental concern, but miss the extreme wastefulness of quick replace cartridges having a big plastic housing that is one time use.
Glad you pointed out the (ridiculous!) extra costs of the proprietary filters...I am dealing with that with my Whirlpool, and they have gotten so expensive that I am throwing the system out and starting over!!!!
The standard filters and housings may be more effort to maintain, but as you earlier mentioned being environmentally conscious... The standard filter unit creates much less waste during routine maintenance, and if repairs are needed being able to replace just the broken component is much less wasteful.
An R.O. system can be really cheap or a lot more efficient. My R.O. system produces less than 1 gallon of "waste" for each gallon of product at less than 10 TDS when I run long cycles. I think that's pretty good.
I'm on a well, with good water at 40-60 PSI pressure. My RO system uses standard 2.5x10 prefilters and an inline post filter (that I've wondered about switching out for a standard housing but the inline lasts a long time). I have a booster pump and a second RO membrane ("staged concentrate") to increase efficiency for a very small increase in TDS. As I'm still well under 10 TDS output, that seems fine. The concentrate goes into my condensate sump where it gets pumped out onto the lawn. I think my next improvement is a non-pressurized storage tank with a distribution pump. Maybe at least 10 up to 20 gallon tank that starts the R.O. when it is about 3/4 empty to automate running long cycles. A first flush addon might also be nice so the initial high TDS output ("TDS creep") would go with the concentrate instead of into the product tank.
Would you mind to share any specifics about your system? I'm interested in installing one as well and would prefer the more traditional type with standard filter sizes.
@@todd77777 I started with the rock bottom cheapest I could find on amazon that looked like (and it did) use standard filters and housings. Expect to pay US$100 to $150. Then I learned more and added on as I identified areas to improve. As I am on a well with variable water pressure, I think the biggest/most important improvement was the booster pump. I tried a "permeate pump" and it didn't seem to do much, especially with the booster pump, so it is now sitting in a box.
If you wanted to start with something more pre-made, I'd investigate iSpring and APEC products. I don't have either of them, but they seem like decent quality, supported "generic" equipment.
For more independent learning, the salt water fish hobbiests do a lot with reverse osmosis, and I found Bulk Reef Supply to be useful. Note you do not need or want deionization (DI) for drinking water so focus on the reverse osmosis (RO) part of the RODI systems.
Thank you!! After reading your prior comment, I was looking at an "11" stage Express Water system, which appears to be a 7 stage with creative marketing. Claimed output is 100 GPD. iSpring and APEC appear to have similar systems marked 75 GPD for $40-$70 more. Do you believe they are significantly different? I read elsewhere that reminerialization can be hit-and-miss. Do you have any experience with that?
@@todd77777 Express Water systems seem very similar to me. I'd probably never use the company support, so personally I'd go for cheap. I'm skeptical of the added stages...
I've looked at a lot of "remineralization filters" but I've not added one. Not sure I can trust what will be added, if anything, by clay balls and rocks - isn't that the same kind of stuff my water already went thru? What, exactly, will end up in my water?
As for all the stages... Some have a specific purpose, while others are secondary/backup and maybe optional. Some are more decorative. 4 or 5 stages are the basic:
* The reverse osmosis membrane is the special bit. It needs protected against chlorine and other contaminates
* a carbon filter provides a lot of protection, so one goes before the membrane
* maybe: if your water has chlorine (i.e. most city water) you require at least one really good or probably better add a second carbon filter before the membrane
* Carbon filters are expensive, so a cheap particulate (sediment) filter before the carbon can help the carbon work better, longer
* Sometimes the water going thru the RO membrane and in the storage tank will pick up a bit of a plastic smell/taste. A carbon filter on the way out to the faucet will remove that
That's why on generic systems you see 3 filter canisters (pre-filters, sediment, carbon, carbon), a larger, more tubular (has 3 water lines) that holds the RO, then a smaller tubular for the final "polish" carbon filter.
You could start with a 3 stage filter system. Decide if you really need RO. Or if you choose RO now, in a year or two when the RO membranes wear out you could decide that just the 3 stage filtering is enough and bypass the RO and output filter.
Thank you @sylvan-db . Useful info. I understand that generic systems are desired but after researching so many Generic brands and even more expensive are hideous about their certifications most important thing which this video leaves out. Only Aquasana is more upfront about filters but their undersink RO smart flow sucks
Fantastic content thanks for educating us
Our water comes from a municipal well which filters through lava rock (we live in Idaho, so, we live on a large lava bed.) Very interesting to know that minerals are removed and can be added back in.
Yeah the standard cartridges are much cheaper and easy to acquire but have you ever seen one filter housing blowout cracked from being aged I'm having to replace o-rings or lubricate o-rings with the proprietary cartridge you get all new filter media and the housing and new o-rings on the cartridge so every year you're replacing the parts that stress. You're sacrificing quality with the permeate pump. You're getting TDS creep in the storage tank. So that's a trade-off. I'm not going to say the name of the white one on the left but I have used that unit for 30 years it is the most dependable reverse osmosis system I have ever seen in 30 years and still today is an icon of quality. Now the price we can definitely argue about
Thank you for all the awesome info!
His assumption is biased on two things: 1) Faucet and running water 2) RO Membrane Flow Rating.
Many people don't want or need the RO water on demand with the Faucet supplying running water. A large 100 GPD membrane can supply .07 GPM/0.25LPM😊 That said, in just 4-5 minutes it will provide an overflowing litre easily. I cook a lot and need approximately 7-9 gallons on hand for boiling and rinsing the spaghetti. Quite frankly I got tired of lifting buckets long ago. I use stainless steel Kegs from the brewery to build both my cold water and hot water storage tanks. I live without heat in a freezing climate. My interior temperature dips below -35f / -37c , so I need to drain back plumbing and pumps, bottle water and store in refrigerator etc.. The drains freeze solid too so I put antifreeze in and wait for warmer days because once the drains freeze it can take three months above 33f/0c to unthaw😊 them.
Good video, lots of info. What would make RO system spit air before the water a few times a month?
Why do you say stay away from tankless RO syatems
Excellent Video Sir !!!!! Thank you very much !!!!
love this video!
Thank you for the information
Very helpful. TY
I’m getting a countertop RO. It’s just about 30$ difference adding the UV to it. I live in a city and I don’t think bacteria is an issue, but for the $30 price would it be worth it getting with UV protection? Any negative that could out of the UV? Like radiation etc?
Which one to buy?
Do I need a sediment and carbon filter (aka 3stage filter) for my RO system if I already have a wholehouse filter? I was thiking that question so technically I can only run stage 4-6 and reduce cost?
Which system would you recommend for a home with 3 people. Daily, we would only be using purified water for 12 cups of coffee and another gallon per day for drinking.
Our water is metered and comes from a small municipal well.
I would like to invest in a high quality system that will be easily serviceable by the company who manufacturers it. There is an ample amount of space under the sink.
Thank you.
Is this a whole home unit? If not is there one you recommend?
what is the cartridge for adding back in the minerals on the traditional RO?
Hi , how many carbon filter do we need in prefilter. Many product uses two carbon filter. Is single carbon filter enough?
Confused as heck , just want one that family can use for clean water daily with filter cost to a minimum. Anyone?
We would recommend the Neo-Pure PRO-4 Residential RO system. You can find it linked in the description!
@@Freshwatersystems Thank You
Can't we get all the minerals we need from our food if we're eating whole real food?
Yes we get what we need from food. It's also bad to have too much water as well. The old 8 glasses a day is actually bs. You just drink what you need. Not part of what you were asking but figured it was helpful info.
If I push myself to drink 2litres a day I just feel better. I do no a bit more self discipline tho 🫢😂
Don’t understand why so many think you need to add minerals to your water. When in reality, water is meant too hydrate, food is where we get our minerals!
You loose a lot of credibility when you say,"stay away from the tankless" and give no reasons. It sounds like you have no way to compete against it. Please supply fact based reasons not to buy a tankless system. Maybe a separate video and link pinned to the top.
But it is a potential failure, since it is proprietary is not easy to do maintenance, no upgradability, cost of filters are higher. Most are made overseas and create leaks. It has a good principle since uses the same principle as the fridges but you can replace regular filters with $30 dlls against a minimum of $75 dlls for a 5 stage filter, it is not much but still is not worth the price. I still think it is more practical, I have the home master inline filters and it is a game changer, easier to replace the filter
Spot on. I am only considering tankless and it is the future. Few have the space to contain all of the mass and patience for the maintenance a tank based system comes with.
@@JoeBarbagallo If I upgraded mine probably will be a tankless. What I like about mine is the uses a permeate pump that does not require electricity and in a power outage I still have water not sure if tankless works the same. I still have some bottles of water as a backup
I believe RO process results in slow flow. Tank stores the RO water so the flow is faster and you don’t have to wait ages to fill a glass.
@@Fr4nkSanchezwhat’s the name of your system champ?
Wish people would stop hyping RO systems
Let people do their own research to figure out what they need
what the fuck is that annoying sound in the background. god damn.