Up Close and Personal - Mountain Warfare in Italy - WW2 Special Documentary
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2023
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Even as the Allied and Axis commanders focus on the sweeping warfare of the Eastern Front and the planning for the invasion of Europe, their men continue to fight a grinding war of attrition high in the Italian mountains. It’s a war of merciless terrain, brutal close-quarters combat, and vast quantities of artillery and bombs. They may be playing second fiddle, but the soldiers on the Italian front will never forget these battles.
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Hosted by: Indy Neidell
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson
Creative Producer: Marek Kamiński
Community Management: Ian Sowden
Written by: James Newman
Research by: James Newman
Edited by: Miki Cackowski
Artwork and color grading by: Mikołaj Uchman
Sound design by: Marek Kamiński
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Archive footage: Screenocean/Reuters - www.screenocean.com
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chuckle, world wart wo
I'm already a subscriber, and I love it!
Way to be ahead of the game, Peter!
So far sponsored videos have been giving us some of my favourite specials, so please do more of them. :)
@BleedingUranium as long as its relevant and fits in with the chanel, and not some garbage like Raid Shadow Legends
WW1: *Giorgio, age 18, lugging a cannon up a mountain
"Minchia, this sucks."
"Don't worry Soldato, soon we will conduct modern warfare."
WW2: *Giorgio, age 43, lugging a _modern_ cannon up a mountain
WW3: *Giorgio, age 125, looking down from the skies*
"Porco dio."
My Grandfather fought in Italy, all the way to the Swiss border. He told me about having positions so close to the Germans that he could hear their conversations. He also told me a humorous story about the time he saw a German soldier going to fill a bucket between the front lines. My Grandfather purposely shot a hole in the bucket, not even trying to hit the German. The German turned around and shook his fist at my Grandfather.
"Mules bring in supplies and lay telephone wires."
It's a wonder what mules can do these days
I had the honor of caring for a veteran of the 10th Mountain in his last days. He served in Italy, but never said a word about his service to his family. When going through his things after he passed, his second wife in his later years found a little box in the back of a drawer. Inside were two Bronze Stars and a Silver Star, along with the citations carefully folded. She didn't really know about this kind of thing, and asked me if they "... were a big deal." I choked up as I told her: "Yes, they're a very big deal, and you should treasure them."
What an amazing story, Steve! That sounds like it must have been quite an honor indeed. Did you ever have the privilege of learning more about his experience? I'm guessing he didn't want to share it for a reason, but I still always feel it is important to remember the stories.
- T.J.
@@WorldWarTwo I only know what the citations said. Each Bronze Star was earned by leading his Company into battle under heavy fire. The Silver Star was earned when he pulled two wounded men back under fire. Even before knowing this, I felt he was an extraordinary man.
Indy, the US Army had one special warfare unit in place during this time, the First Special Service Force (popularly nicknamed the Devil's Brigade or Black Devils). They were trained in mountain, arctic, seaborne, and airborne warfare and fought on the Gustav line and at Anzio before being transferred to southern France. The Force numbered 1400 men, made up primarily of American and Canadian volunteers. Here in Montana we still remember them and have a section of the Montana Military Museum at Fort Harrison outside Helena dedicated to them.
This addition is crucial!
It's an iconic formation of the Italian Front
One of the most decorated ww2 Canadian soldiers and the most decorated Native American called Sgt. Tommy Prince was also part of that brigade. He is deeply remembered in Manitoba for what he did. Especially in the Indian community.
Germans were justifiably scared of 1st special service and the french Morrocan(especially)/Algerian divisons.
My Grandfather was a member of This Unit. One of there Biggest engagements was at Monte La Difensa.
Didn't they also fight the Japanese, taking part in the recapture of Attu and Kiska? One of the few infantry units to fight in both theaters iirc.
I remember watching the special on mountain warfare back on the Great War channel. Interesting to see the difference in fighting between the Dolomites and the (slightly) more hospitable southern mountains.
Exactly what I was thinking, the top of Montecassino so important for its "dominating position" is about 520m above sea level. In the Alpine front in WW1 the foot of the mountain could easily be as high as 1000m above sea level in places like the "high flatland" of Asiago , the bottom of the valley at some of the passes being close to 2000m a.s.l. (Tonale for example 1888m, Tre Croci 1800m, but even 2700m for Stelvio) and the peaks were up to more than 3000m above sea level (for example mount Adamello 3539m, Tofane 3244m, Marmolada 3343m) with perennial snows, glaciers etc) and often a lot steaper, if not straight vertical, "terrain" (and I mean rock).
The Appennines are (comparatively!) a less harsh and punishing terrain.
That's some good insight, Matteo! But also don't forget that the "milder" climate also contributes to more mud instead of snow and ice. Sometimes the problems aren't "better" or "worse", they're just different. Still, I think I'd rather be an American G.I. here than an Italian soldier in the Dolomites, if for nothing else than I don't want to have to deal with Luigi Cadorna's horrible leadership!
- T.J.
When comparing the two, the Allies are slowly going up steep mountains and sliding down them due to the wet conditions as well as geography. Meanwhile in the Great War, the Italians are doing suicide charges against steel Austro-Hungarian defenses. Just remember how Cadorna’s Isonzo Offensives went. So yeah, while the Allies had it slightly better in WW2, it was also due to different leadership in addition to weather and climate differences.
@@indianajones4321 In case you had no chance to notice the sector of the Isonzo was "hilly" compared to Flanders but that represented mainly the "lower" and "flatter" part of the Italian WW1 front, at least the part associated to most of the large mass battles (since a major offensive in the mountains, even in case of success was pretty pointless), All the "viable" part of the front for any offensive was between the Alps and the Sea and with the Isonzo flowing down from the Alps to the Sea it streached along the entire lower front for most the duration of the war, If you were attacking the enemy not trying to go through the choke points of Alpine valleys or worse across the peaks of the mountains you were attacking across the Isonzo (so you can't really blame Cadorna ,or whoever, for this reason, there are plenty good reasons for, not this)
Note, I'm not saying the Isonzo was fully in the lower part of the front but the reverse, that all the low lands were along the isonzo. (and when we say "lower/flatter" keep in mind "comparatively" because for example Monte Santo of Gorizia and the plateu of Bainsizza are in the lower sector of the front, but anyway are still 600/680m asl(still a good 100m higher than the top of Montecassino, but fading in comparison with real mountains)
And altitudes in general were higher moving closer to Switzerland and
The true Alpine front was a completely different world. It was a warfare conducted in smaller numbers, especially the proper "White War" (in "artic" conditions all year round and high altitude), and generally speaking with a lot more common sense and cleverness and skills than on the lower end of the front. In the proper alpine front the main enemy were avalanches and elements more than enemy fire or even the suicide charges you mentioned.
@@WorldWarTwo Both sides in Italy tended to mix and match tropical with temperate zone uniforms, in some cases because they had moved from North Africa where the tropical uniform was more common and still wore the same uniform, in others because it was hot in southern Italy when the fighting started. The Germans authorised tropical uniform for the entire Mediterranean area. But when the campaign went on and moved north it became cold and wet and more and more temperate zone items were added.
My grandfather was a platoon commander with 3rd Battalion, 85th Mountain Infantry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division. He received a Purple Heart and two Bronze Stars. He died in August 2018, aged 96.
The Gothic Line ran straight through the area my Nonna grew up in, being a teen at the time. The staff of the German 51st Mountain Corps was down the hill, and during air raids the staff would come into the hills to quarter in civilian homes. As my Nonna says “they had machine guns so you couldn’t say no”. She remembers one man particularly because he apologized profusely that he had to unbuckle his belt when sitting due to a bayonet wound on his stomach from the Great War.
Later, an partisan battalion of Italians and escaped Soviet POWs led by a team of British SAS (including the SAS’s only Basque member) would attack the German staff building, dubbed Operation Tombola. To avoid the German policy of 10:1 reprisals on civilians for every German killed by partisans, the SOE parachuted in a Scottish SAS man along with his bagpipe which was to be played loudly during the attack to make the Germans believe it was a British commando raid and not partisans. The bizarre bagpipe trick seemed to have worked, and the local civilian population was not killed for this incident.
My great uncle Frank Mjaatvedt was a Norwegian immigrant escaping Norway as the Germans invaded, his half brother staying behind with the resistance (Post war he wouldstar a very successful construction company and I would like to know more about him). Frank would sign up with the 10th Mountain when the call went out for experienced skiers. He trained at Camp Hale before shipping to Italy. He took part in the famous assault on Riva ridge, his hearing would suffer from close artillery impacts. He continued unto the Po valley and singlehandedly captured a German Colonel and his adjacent while scouting ahead. For this he was awarded a Bronze Star. They continued North into the Lake District and he was involved in a serious firefight on the last day of Hostilities in May 1945, one of his teamates was killed right in front of him that day. Many of the pictures you will see of the unit were snapped by him, he was also the units photographer. I may be able to assist with resources upon request although some I used to have available have since been archived...
czcams.com/video/0GL3A7W03aI/video.html
Ah, yes, the Italian mountains... let me tell you a story that happened roughly 35 years ago. I and some friends of mine were touring Italy in winter (don't ask, we had our reasons) and had planned to eat at Cassino in our way to Pompey and Naples, but weather had other plans for us - that morning we found the thickest fog I have ever seen: visibility was measured in inches, it was cold, it was wet, it was miserable, and it seemed like the whole world had decided to stay at home. We happy few were apparently the only car in the road (luckily, because we moved so slowly that a snail would have passed us and even so we only discovered the curves when they were upon us) and we barely reached Cassino alive in time to look for a hotel to spend the night. It was... quite an experience.
And those men endured Italian winter in the hills day after day after day, sleeping in their trenches and eating garbage, while other men fired at them all day long with wicked intent.
Holy cow, what a hook! That's honestly a trip I want to hear more about, but it really does give even more life to how rough the environment was there, especially this time of year. After reading that it paints an even clearer picture of Indy's story about the American Rangers bumping into the German positions on the top of the mountain. Absolutely wild.
- T.J.
@@WorldWarTwo It was many years ago, but I still remember the piercing cold and how the fog made you feel utterly miserable because you were wet and couldn't get dry no matter what, and how the sounds seemed muted but at the same time the deep silence made you feel like you could hear things that normally you wouldn't. It made you feel slightly paranoid with no need of real enemies trying to kill you. Actually we joked about there being German soldiers in the hills that didn't know the war was over, and one of us answered: Germans? Hah! I bet there are still some Carthaginians around!
And yeah, I can very definitely see how groups of soldiers could bump into each other without warning, and infiltrate enemy lines without even knowing you are infiltrating anything too. Sadly I can't tell you anything about Cassino, other than the restaurant had a small collection of artifacts people kept finding, helmets, bayonets, gasmask boxes, that kind of thing... we arrived in deep fog and left in deep darkness trying to recover the time we had lost. I was the only one interested in history :(
With hindsight what we did was madness, but sometimes God protects his children and the four crazy Spaniards in the rented car made it to Cassino alive... but the idea of driving a truck in a convoy navigating those hills on a road of the 30s in deep fog makes me feel a lot of respect for those that had to do it.
And what of the Italians in WWI fighting there for 3 years vs Austrian and Germans who held the high ground and used chemical weapons? They endured what was called the toughest front of WWI, finally 300,000 Austrians surrendered and Italy won. @@isidroramos1073
At about this time, a British battalion, possibly from the Lancashire Fusiliers, had outposts only about 50 yards from the Germans on a ridge not far from Cassino. Conditions were appalling, and according to the battalion commander who described it later, six men in adjoining foxholes tried to desert. They were intercepted further down the hill. The commander decided not to court-martial them, instead splitting them up and distributing them in other companies.
There were severe problems bringing up supplies, especially food. The battalion colonel wrote later that after some experimentation the best solution was to send up pasties or meat pies in insulated containers, so they still remained hot after being carried up the mountains.
2:41 countries alpine forces size
3:40 5th alpine division
4:36 normal infantry
5:42 alli forces
7:32 conditions
9:30 German defenses
10:35 alli advantages
11:05 tactics
OK 👍 gud man
I knew an Italian American vet that was one of the US mountain troops. He showed me how to make braciole, but I couldn't get him to talk about his experiences in the mountains. When I saw the pained look he got on his face when I asked, I didn't ask him twice.
I've heard some folks compare the Italian Campaign of World War II to the Korean War a few years later, since since both were fought on peninsulas covered with mountains and just GRUELING conditions for any army. Needless to say, both are absolutely horrifying to read about (ESPECIALLY Korea, where the Chinese human wave charges, bayonet attacks by both sides and close up dug in fighting resulted in utter bloodbaths).
This episode reminded me of the stories my Dad told me. He was a Marine and fought in the Pacific. Although Japan has no jungles, the Japanese mastered the art of jungle warfare. They used to infiltrate the Marines' lines and there was hand-to-hand fighting inside their own foxholes. They fought with knives and even razors. I think everyone who served on the lines got PTSD.
Did they really master it though or did so few live to tell the tale that they too sucked at it.?After all, the Japanese generals were far more ruthless with their troops then Allied generals. Including maintaining discipline. And I know that in Vietnam, most of the North Vietnamese soldiers were just city boys too with no jungle skills whatsoever.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Japanese divisions tended to travel much more lightly-encumbered than their Allied counterparts, which allowed them to pass through some of the worst terrain in the world with a speed which often surprised the Allied commanders (as they did at Singapore, for example). On the defensive, Japanese doctrine emphasised concealment over weight of concrete, an approach which synergised well with the cluttered battlefields on which they often found themselves.
A slight correction...
While it is true that the Japanese home islands do not have jungle, much of the northern half of the island of Okinawa is covered by it. In fact both the modern Japanese Self Defense Forces and the US military conduct training there at the Jungle Warfare Training Center, run by the 3rd Marine Division.
That said I do not to know to what extent (if any) the Japanese army conducted jungle warfare training on Okinawa in the 1930s or 1940s, but Japan did have access to jungle if it was so inclined.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 They got massacred and they were the most suffering nation in the theatre, but Japan was proficient and adaptive to the terrain, let's put it that way. And they more used to it than the incoming americans.
@@stephenwood6663 They were lightly equipped, which indeed was better suited to jungle warfare then a fully motorized Allied division. But when traversing through the jungle the Japanese wasted away from hunger and disease with stories of cannibalism not uncommon. And the Japanese successes early in the war were against 2nd to 3rd rate Allied formations as their best forces were fighting the Germans. Once the Australian AIF divisions came back from the Middle East they kicked Japanese ass and they were very adapt at jungle warfare. Not just because they too adopted light infantry TOE and tactics, but because unlike the Japanese they could actually support their divisions in the field. Same with the British in Burma. Once Slim's 14th Army went on the offensive it moved with a speed that surprised the Japanese.
In short, the Japanese were better equipped for jungle warfare early in the war. But better is relative as their opponents were totally unsuited for jungle warfare. Once the Allies got their shit in order Japan's slim lead became a massive handicap. Because logistics matters.
About twenty years ago, I read an account on the website of a British WWII veteran. He had been a Churchill crewman serving in Italy and had the misfortune of running into one of those improvised pillboxes, this one made out of the turret from a Panther, sometime in early 1945.
It was late in the day and his tank was leading a platoon of tanks down a road.
Bang! His Churchill got whacked.
He had no idea what had hit them, but his tank had been heavily damaged. He and his crew bailed out of the stricken Churchill as the rest of the tanks in the platoon reversed back down the road. The crew dived into a ditch beside the road just as their Churchill took a second hit, this one setting it on fire.
Fortunately, all the crew members had made it out of the Churchill more or less in one piece. They still didn't know what was shooting at them, except that what ever it was it was big. Neither did they see a safe way to withdrawal, so they decided to hunker down where they were and wait for their fellows to come and retrieve them.
So, there they were, spread out in the ditch keeping watch as the corpse of their tank blazed away nearby, when suddenly, the main gun of the Churchill fired. Apparently, it had gotten hot enough from the fire to cook off an AP round that had been in the chamber. They all shrugged, kept up their watch and the night passed uneventfully. In the morning, as hoped, a relief forces showed up and infantry started working over the area, but all was quiet.
Finally, some of the infantry got close enough to the pillbox to discover it, and they also discovered why it wasn't shooting at them. When the main gun of the Churchill had cooked off, the shell had gone right through the mantlet of the Panther turret, wrecked the gun and the German's manning it had buggered off.
The author of the account had even attached a few pictures he'd taken of the aftermath of the fight. One showed his knocked out and still smoldering Churchill, another showed the Panther turret pillbox with the hole in the mantlet from the hit clearly visible. But, the best one was taken from inside the Panther turret looking out through the hole in the mantlet and straight down the barrel of the gun on his Churchill.
It was a fascinating website. He'd written up his entire war experience and this was just a small part.
Sadly, I no longer have the URL and haven't been able to find it again.
What are the odds for the barrel of the Churchill being laid directly on the Panther turret without knowing it? Then to have an AP round in the chamber and it cooks off and takes out the Panther turret? The odds must be staggering and I am not 100% sure how to calculate them but the best odds were that all of the Churchill crew got out safely. I don't think that the same could be said for the German crew as a round coming through the mantlet is bound to spray the interior of the turret with hot shrapnel, so injuries and deaths could be expected.
Mark from Melbourne Australia
I am wondering if that account is with The Tank Museum, Bovington? Certainly the tankie is most likely to have lodged his account with his Unit Association or the next level up within the Armoured Corps.
@@markfryer9880 I came across it in a post in the WWII usenet group in the late 1990s. I was a regular reader of that group, but I'd never seen the name before and I never saw him post again.
The post just said something to the effect of "I'm a veteran who served in the British army in WWII and I've written an account of my experiences. If you're interested, here's the URL. it had a link and that's just about all it said.
I don't remember exactly who was hosting the link, but it seems like it was someone like GeoCities or one of the many web-providers who used to host personal web-pages for free back then.
I saved the URL at the time, but over the decades and computer crashes, I've lost it.
I vaguely remembered responding to him with a "Thanks, enjoyed the read" or something like that, and once spent an entire evening searching through the usenet archive of my old comments hoping to find it, but was unable to locate it, if I even responded to begin with.
I've long been bummed about losing it. It was clear that the author was just a guy writing down his remembrances of the war with little polish, but to me it was gold.
@@markfryer9880 I know, right? That's why it's stuck with me all these years. It was such an amazing story I would have been skeptical had it not been for the photographs.
That's one of the things that keeps me interested in WWII. All the amazing stories from the people who fought it.
As someone who has studied Kargil war quite thoroughly, which is the most modern mountain war, it’s quite surprising that mountain warfare has really not changed much from WW2 era, from weapon ballistic estimations not working properly, extreme need for artillery, horrendous logistics situation, and need for troops to acclaimatize.
“But one division of mountain troops is still better than *no* divisions of mountain troops”
1>0 is just the kind of insightful/hard-hitting analysis I’ve come to expect from you lot
J/k I love u all
I mean that's not even history, that's just math. We like to teach all sorts of things here. :P
- T.J.
I finally get to throw in my obligatory "hey my grandfather served there." At this point he is training with the 10th in Colorado. The ski troops is an interesting choice for an NYC guy that never skiied a day before or after his service.
My Uncle Jack was also in the ski troops. He had been working as a clerk in a drugstore in Paterson New Jersey when the war started, so the army assumed (incorrectly) that he had some kind of medical background, so he was made a medic. He would never talk about his experiences when asked.
My Grandfather wasn't in the 10th -- but my Dad was. Over the years he's shared stories about his time there, & there was a talk he gave about his time in the service -- which I managed to record in a video file. (He doesn't tell the same stories in the presentation that he told me over the years, but that was the first time I heard about his recollection of a lost helmet clattering down the scree as they were climbing up the slopes of Mt Belvedere in the middle of the night to surprise the Germans. That's something that raises my hair every time I recall it.) Been meaning to share a copy of the video with one of the historical groups.
No matter how big the fire fight was, it was monumental to those fighting it. Thank you for showing this.
Thank you for being here to watch it, mysterious numbers!
- T.J.
The film “The Story of G. I. Joe” captures perfectly the war conditions on the Italian front. The rains, the muddy conditions, cold…I highly recommend it. ✋🏻more of these videos please…
"Force of Arms" is another film that shows the Italian "meatgrinder", though in a surprisingly unique way. The main GI character, Pete, nearly loses it from the constant killing, repeatedly losing friends, and watching Italian civilians being harmed by the Germans. He eventually runs into a WAC officer named Ellie behind the lines, who likewise is heartbroken and angry (it's strongly suggested her fiancé was killed in battle). The two actually bond over their pain and begin a relationship. I won't reveal what happens, but I'll say this: The movie mostly strips away the "hero" image of the Allies and instead shows them for what they really were: ordinary men and women just trying to survive amidst hell on earth.
My Dad was a MP with the 10th Mountain Division trained in Colorado and in Battle in Italy. Dads MP unit brought General Hays and his command into the battleground inclusive of Riva Ridge and Mount Belvedere. They lost many men but chased the Germans into the Alps.
Special men. Many did not return home. All heroes.
This was an interesting special to watch, as often mountain warfare in Italy is not something that often first comes to mind during the war. Thanks Indy & team for covering a perhaps forgotten aspect of the war here.
Arguably the most brutal front ever, behind the Italian Front of WWI (in the frontiers, in the mounts, in the Alps), the mountainous warfare in Albania/Epirus and the Pacific Theatre.
Thank you for watching, glad you found it interesting!
Quite a lot of the Volksdeutsche from Poland conscripted into the Wehrmacht were only nominally Germans, and could not understand orders or instructions in German.
Ślązacy i Kaszubi byli wcielani tak jak Alsaciens we Francji.
People from Silesia, Poméranie were obligatory conscripts alike from Alsace France
@@maciejniedzielski7496 There were four categories of Volksdeutsch according to the Germans, although supposedly all were German. Categories I and II were arguably more or less genuinely German, merely in Poland as a result of the Versailles Treaty boundary changes. III and IV were regarded as really Poles, despite the official designation. Category III was an especially large group. On the Internet I have seen examples of comic strip-like brochures intended to teach troops like that simple German and explain the workings of military equipment like Mauser carbines.
Regarding trench food, wasn't there an American general called "General Woolsock" who made sure his soldiers had several pairs of socks in their knapsacks and who was he?
Well, looks like I'm re-reading "Up Front" today. Bill Mauldin definitely knew his stuff
Thank you for covering this in a special.
Thank you to Curiousity Stream.
Rick Atkinson's book the Day of Battle is about the Sicily and Italy campaigns.
I can't help but watch this episode with "Soldier of Heaven" blaring in my head...
I've just finished reading James Holland's book Italy's Sorrow. It's a very interesting account of fighting through the Appenines 44 - 45.
I had the opportunity to interview a guy who was part of the US 11th Airborne division, the Pacific paratroopers, during the recapture of Leyte, and even in 1944 with better equipment and logistics, he told me about being unable to carry wounded down from the hills and going hungry because it was impossible to get supplies up to the infantry.
The terrain was so difficult to fight in that the 11th airborne began stealing scout and liasion craft, like the piper cubs, anything they could get their hands on and began dropping platoon and company-sized units behind Japanese lines during assaults and to recon an area ahead of the main formation.
At one point, the entire 457th parachute field artillery battalion dropped onto a piece of high-ground behind Japanese lines and used it as a firebase with a 360° field of fire while trying to dislodge the defenders.
They used those same snatched planes to drop supplies to the guys at the front. Though this also caused fatalities.
As a result of basically innovating chopper assault tactics without the choppers, the glider and parachute units were almost entirely cross-trained - meaning all the glider-riders had some form of jump training and vice-versa - by the time they left Leyte for Luzon.
The 11th airborne division saved the airborne divisional concept in the Knollwood maneuvers but ironically hardly ever operated as an entire air-assault division.
The first time it did, on Luzon, they were so used to dropping as smaller units on Leyte that they had trouble coordinating one cohesive drop, leading to a lot of guys dropping early and having to hoof it a couple hours to their objectives. It was otherwise unopposed, lucky for them.
7:09 The Moroccan troops had a fearsome reputation with the Germans, they were notoriously skilled at night infiltration and knife fighting.
There were rumours that they castrated German prisoners, although a Moroccan interviewed after the war denied it - he said they were rewarded by their officers for capturing Germans unharmed so they could be interrogated. That they looted and raped in Italian villages is however well-documented.
The Moroccans were indeed good soldiers, but there was another side to the story. With the encouragement of their French Commander they were given nearly free reign to treat civilians in the area of Montecassino. This resulted in extensive rape of Italian women and girls. This story was depicted in the film "Two Women" for which Sophia Loren won the Academy Award for best actress.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
They were also infamous for mass rapes. Their rape of villages en masse is well documented around Cassino. Google “ maroccinate”
Thank you for this episode Indy and crew. It pretty much reminds me of my readings about Operation Exporter which was mainly fought by the Australians against Vichy French in the Mountains of Lebanon. You wonderfully covered it 3 years ago (in June-July 1941), right before Operation Barbarossa. Cheers!
Just wanted to post that I recently raised my pledge to help with the D-Day special, looking forward to the great content.
For those wondering, the FEC was under general Juin and had 112000 soldiers it was composed of 60% native morrocans and 40% europeans led by french officers. The morrocan mountain division was composed of 35% europeans and of course 65% native morrocans.
Germans on the forward slopes: "It's over Allies, we have the high ground!"
The Allies: "You underestimate our artillery"
Germans to the Italians now helping the Allies through the mountains: "You were supposed to destroy the Allies, not join them!"
Lots of focus on Axis and European mountain troops, but no mention of Americans other than a single Ranger reference. In the U.S. 10th Mountain Division, Ivy League types who've skiied served side-by-side by western mountaineers and tough midwesterners like Kansan and future Senator Bob Dole. Dole earned the Distinguished Service Cross for valor leading his Soldiers on Hill 913. In the process, he suffered wounds that resulted in a lengthy convalescence and would deny him the use of one of his arms for the rest of his life. The 1st Special Service Force -- an ad hoc Canadian-U.S. unit -- also served with distinction in the Italian mountains.
I have fired one of those 8mm carbines they have one heck of a recoil.
My mother's father was at Caporetto. She was born in Casarsa the Italians retreated past there. My mother said she was told that the Piave was a river of blood. My father was born near Monte Pasubio, one of the other Italian moutain fronts during WW1. There are barbed wire crosses and memorial all about. His mother lived here during WW1.
I have a unique Gewehr 33/40 rifle used possibly by the 5th German Gebirgsjager that surrendered in Turin, Italy to the 34th US ID. Really awesome to see this video posted up, most of the mountain troops that get attention are the ones at Mt Elbrus and the Caucasus front.
War is Hell. Especially in Italy. Thanks for the history!
Thanks for watching! War is indeed hell - all the more important that we learn from it.
The weather conditions that the men fought in must have been horrendous. To get absolutely soaked and then have to sleep like that in the freezing cold and then fight the next day must have been dreadful and to think those guys did that day after day ! My deepest respect goes out to those men
Thanks for watching, Aegon Targaryen.
Although not trained for mountain warfare, my father grew up in northern Nevada, suprisingly the worlds best ice fishing is found in the area. He helped others deal with this freezing cold winter weather with adding straw to their boots and armpits for hand warmth among other 'treats' like liberated wine stocks from church bell towers.
Thank you for that. Extremely well explained.
RE British 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Div - Mountain.
1) 'Mountain and Flood' - the official history of 52 (Lowland) Div. - records that early in the war (possibly before Pearl Harbor), elements of the Division spent time in Colorado assisting Studebaker and the US Army generally with the development and testing of the M29 'Weasel' tracked vehicle. This was because, at the time, 52 Div. was the only Allied special purpose mountain division available for such a task.
2) Field-Marshal Alexander was never going to get British 52nd Mountain Div. in Italy. By 1st August 1944, the division had been re-purposed (and retrained) as 52 Inf Div (Air-Portable) and moved into Brereton's 1st Allied Airborne Army - answerable directly to Eisenhower at SHAEF. These troops were supplemental to parachute and glider airborne troops, without being termed 'airborne' themselves. In fact, 52nd Div. retained their 'Mountain' shoulder flashes throughout - even when they subsequently became ordinary infantry for Operation VERITABLE and the Rhine crossing.
52 (Lowland) Div was slated to participate in MARKET-GARDEN, 17th September 1944 - the main force to be flown in to hold the high ground above Arnhem once British 1st Airborne Div. had seized the bridges and secured the Luftwaffe airfield at Deelen, about 4km to the north of Arnhem itself. The Arnhem situation was never stabilised sufficent for the Air-Portable operation despite Gen. Hakewill-Smith unsuccessfully offering his division to Gen. Browning, the Airborne Corp commander, for any use Browning saw fit. But, elements of 52nd Div - its 52nd Recce Regt as well as its AA artillery and searchlight units - were attached to Horrocks' XXX Corps as part of GARDEN linking up with US 101st Airborne Div. in the defence of 'Hell's Highway'. 52nd (Lowland) Div. was thus the FOURTH division from 1st Allied Airborne Army (and the SECOND British one) to fight in MARKET-GARDEN, history normally claims that US units were in the majority.
For pedants, 101st US Airborne didn't fight in MARKET either. As soon as their boots touched the ground they came under XXX Corps (and hence GARDEN) command.
Great timing, I was just watching the Mountain Warfare Special from The Great War
Hi Indy
These specials are so good to watch.
Thanks.
Out of 11 members of my family that served in WWII, only one was killed. That was in Italy.
awesome special! looking forward for a Gebirgsjagers special. they played vital roles along every front seen and yet to be seen! thanks for the magnificient documentaries as always 🤩
Thank you for watching!
This special made me think of that scene in Band of Brothers when Blythe and Nixon came across that dead Fallschirmjaeger with the Edelweiss in his pocket. Nixon explains how its the mark of a true soldier for being able to climb up and get it.
That was a mistake in the series. A fallschmirjager is a paratrooper and they didn't do the edelweiss thing. They meant it to be a mountain trooper but the script was wrong.
Still, the part of "the mark of a true soldier", remains correct. It was a nice addition to the film.
@@porksterbob Not impossible for a Gebirgsjager to have ended up a Fallschirmjager, but yes, unlikely.
@@porksterbob Yeah he was probably thinking of Gebirgsjager but still a powerful scene anyways.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 He could have transferred, who knows lol
Love it that you have partnered with Curiosity Stream. I would certainly recommend the Apocalypse series as well as coloured docs on Australia.
Fondly remember the Arditti episode from Great War
Yes!!! More special episodes like this please! They are my favorite!
Plenty of specials in the pipeline! We love making them too!
5:58
For anyone who might be confused at why a 'Lowland' infantry division would be a mountain division, the 'Lowlands' are the densly populated central belt of Scotland where all the major cities are (as opposed to the rural 'Highlands'). They may be recruited from the cities of the north but they are well placed to get training in the mountains which aren't very far away!
Probably got their initial training by climbing over the wall at Maryhill Barracks to get to the pubs.
@@albanan1 I wonder if Inn Deep or Munro's existed back then. I'd go AWOL for a pint on Great Western Road ha
@@lawrencesmeaton6930 I think that Munns Vaults was a soldiers' pub. Probably a few others.
Sort of like the Korean War about five years later after the end of WWII
The irony that the "Lowland " troops are a Mountain Division lol
One of the best episodes, both in terms of concentrating & informing one of Mountain Warfare - and just extremely well written documentary (And delivered) Loud applause here!
Ooooooh! The Curiosity Stream sponsorship is very exciting! I hope we can get more episodes from them in future :D
I'm CURIOUS where it will lead, too!
- T.J.
P.S. I'm also SORRY for that pun.
Great content as usual. Thanks for the informative and entertaining quality content.
Thank you, THCdreams! We love doing it, but we're only able to do it because you're here to watch it, so let's keep up the good work together!
The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment scaled Assoro at night up a near shear rock face, weeks before the FSSF would do the same at La Defensa
Angus Duffy?
Great show Indy and a great tie to go with it.
I remember when you guys talked about mountain war in WW1 on the Isonzo front. Some of the most challenging fighting done in that conflict.
Nobody really realize that Italy, as a matter of fact and with few exception, is a mountain country for the most...and when is not mountains, its 1500m high hills, 40°C in summer and -15°C by winter. Only the narrow land by the sea has a postcard weather.
Great Show. Felt like a regular episode. And a great tie! The colors being in honor of Mardi Gras and the solemn season of Lent, I presume.
Amazing episode as always
Grandfather's friend served in the 10th mountain 605th FA. I never learned too much from him except one story. He was in Italy and was to load into a boat. Someone miscounted and his boat was full so he got in the next boat. The first boat was sunk in it's operation while the one he went to didn't sink. Crazy to think how his fate was set by someone not knowing how to count.
My Grandfather was in WW2. During one battle he came across a wounded Italian soldier and he showed my grandfather a photo of his family. My grandad must have felt sorry for him as he give the soldier his own bandage. Understandably my grandfather got into trouble for that and its not known if the soldier survived or not
Great special, as usual.
Thankyou Indy and Team Another really Interesting video that Explains so much in such a short time!
You're welcome, Daniel, and thank you for watching!
I agree, these specials on tactics and strategy are often some of my favorites.
- T.J.
Great special, really interesting perspective of the conflict
Excellently well done.
I thought there might be mention of 'The Devil's Brigade', who were among those who had specific training for mountain warfare - and used it with some success. Edit: I see they've been acknowledged in at least a couple of comments, as the "1st Special Service Force".
Great episode thank you
I've been a member since 2005, this is time I've ever seen a relavent advertisemtn for something I would actually use. Excellent job creator. subbed and liked.
Every episode gets an Outstanding as far as I'm concerned.
But with all of the Main episodes, WAH episodes, Spies and Ties episodes and various Specials, shorts and cross-overs, a MASTER DIRECTORY is desperately needed for anyone wanting to watch it all in chronological order.
I have to say your detail into the situations that Jen are out though in this part of the war is astonishing 👍🇬🇧
Fight in WW2 on the Appennini was hard, but nothing if compared to the Italian front in WW1. It was on the Alps (the highest mountains in Europe, touching 3500 meters in this sector). Vertical rock walls and permanent ice even in summer. This was trench war at high altitude, with the Austro Ungarians on the defense and the Italians on the attack. Many mountains were mined from the inside and blown up to dislodge the enemy on the top. Still today the mountains and the retreating glaciers (global warming) give back traces of that conflict: barbed wire, rusted tins of meat, bodies of soldiers fallen and kept frozen for 100 years.
Great Video Program and Great Series.
Thank you for your support!
The battles in the Southern Mountains and the Alps, interesting history of ski and mountain divisions!
People laughing at italian army being equipped heavily with tankettes and mules should watch this 9:08
Excellent, thank you 👏
Nice episode
Thank you for this excellent video ( from a subscriber and Patreon)
Thank you for this excellent support, Daniel, both in the comments and on Patreon!
You showed a picture at about the 7:20 point of a Morrocan soldier. They were called Goums, or Goumiers in French. My mother was in Italy from early '44 onwards, in the Red Cross and said that they, the Goums, "raped their way up Italy".
Great episode ❤
Thank you, glad you liked it!
Another great show.
Over 10 years of Indy. War and men go hand in hand until the end of time
The US Army before WW2: "We don't need mules anymore." A few years later they are buying mules in Europe.
The US Airforce developing the F-4 Phantom: "We don't need guns on fighters anymore..."
Best channel on CZcams
In the Italian Campaign,Kesselring even Overwhelming Outnumber in Men and Material,did a huge Contribution to all Military Academies in the World ( until this day) how with very few resources,take advantage of the terrain and how to propabbly Defend his own lines and at the same time inflicting a severe Punishment to the attacking forces.( The Allies in this case).
And the Bloody Italian Campaign, finished in Kesselring terms( has a Brilliant Strategic he also was a Real Man who Cared abaut the Life of the men under his command,and also the Enemy ones. He knew when Enough was Enough and Pointless sending men to their deaths when it was all Over)A Real Lesson in a very Successfull Defense Strategy against Overwhelming Enemy forces .
Nice to see all the footage from John Ford's documentary!
Thank you.
Thanks, WW2 channel, for sharing this wonderful introduction episode.... fighting by Bayonetta 🗡 even in furiously circumstances .are not reflecting ideological beliefs ... but warriors of each side are struggling to survive through enemy killings because in battlefields, no one's trusting of surviving through surrendering and enemy promise even acceptance of humbles
I was stationed at Fort Drum, NY with 10th Mountain Division during my time in the Army. I've been looking forward to seeing some of the history of old unit pop up here.
"Harold Alexander, Army group commander"...that could almost be a Rap
Not sure if it's coincidence but i'm thankful that you cover this as to re-capture from other angles what i'm currently studying as of the time being.
Maybe we both just have good timing, Gullfaxi!
My Father fought in Italy from Anzio to being wounded out a few klicks from Pizza. One thing he mentioned a lot is the accuracy of the German mortars, saying they could drop a shell into your back pocket for range and the second down your throat for effect. You've compared tanks but what of mortars (small hand carried) and other small arms?
An interesting bit about the 10th Mountain Division's home Garrison: The Garrison where the division was first activated, Camp Hale, recently received National Monument Status here in Colorado this last fall in October 2022. The camp was also used as a POW camp for members of Rommel's Afrika Corps and was the scene of a breakout when on 15 February 1944 Private Dale Maple drove away with two German Sergeants and made it all the way to Mexico before being arrested. Maple was found guilty of "aiding the enemy" before President Roosevelt commuted his sentence to life in prison, Maple would be released from prison in 1950.
Maple was a talented student at college, fluent in German and pro-Nazi. He was placed in a nominally engineering unit with other soldiers thought to be security risks. They were issued obsolete uniforms, to use up stores but perhaps also marking the unit's low status. Perhaps unwisely they were used to guard POWs and Maple and two others assisted an escape. The other two were German-American and their case attracted less attention, but Maple's did. His death sentence was indeed commuted - given that he actually aided the enemy, it makes an interesting contrast with Eddie Slovik's case. Slovik merely deserted, but his death sentence was carried out.
love this stuff
very interesting video
Italy is a bit forgotten- Burma seems utterly forgotten.
Excellent episode Indy !. I remember reading Paul Carell's ''Hitler moves east''book ,and one chapter dealt with the 20th German Mountain Army in 1941 ,who had the unforgiveable job of trying to capture Murmansk .with addeed support from the Finn's .The Mountain Army had 4 divisions and all the mules, severe weather gear ,outiftted to the boot while fighting in bliiards and sub-zero temps. They worked their tails off to drive toward Murmansk ,though always at the end ''another division wwas needed''. The Italian Alpini Corps was the elite of the Italian 8th Army that went into Russia ,and a few made it back to Rome.,what a waste of ''crack ''troops .I was surprised the American 10th Mountain didn't get into action until January 45? ,only to fight 5 months? Someone seriously did a terrible job of ,processing the unit for faster dispatch ! The German Mountain troops took Mt Elbrus in 1942!. and the Waffen Units were quite good. A grreat episode ,maybe do another ?
Even the US logistical system, the best in WW2, struggled to get infantry and other divisions across the Atlantic.
Hardly my favourite film, but one of the most interesting scenes in "Battle Of The Bulge" is when German officers discuss a fruit pie, still fresh, found on a US POW. It had been transported thousands of miles from the USA. Against an opponent with that kind of logistics there was no chance of victory although the officers avoid that conclusion.