Why was Italy so Ineffective in WWII? | Animated History
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 04. 2022
- Support this channel by checking our NordVPN exclusive deal at nordvpn.com/historyvpn
You can try it risk-free thanks to their 30-day money-back guarantee!
Sign up for Armchair History TV today! armchairhistory.tv/
Promo code: ARMCHAIRHISTORY for 50% OFF
Merchandise available at store.armchairhistory.tv/
Check out the new Armchair History TV Mobile App too!
apps.apple.com/us/app/armchai...
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / armchairhist
Sources:
Adelman, Jonathan R. Hitler and His Allies in World War II. London: Routledge, 2007.
Giannone, Elicia. “Cultural Disparity and the Italo-German Alliance in the Second World War.” Master’s thesis, University of Calgary, 2015.
Gonsalves, Simon. “The Italian Army in the Second World War: A Historiographical Analysis.” Great Lakes Journal of Undergraduate History 5, no. 1 (2017): 1-22. scholar.uwindsor.ca/gljuh/vol....
Jayne, Dusti R. “Settling Libya: Italian Colonization, International Competition, and British Policy in North Africa.” Master’s thesis, Ohio University, 2010.
Knox, MacGregor. Hitler's Italian Allies: Royal Armed Forces, Fascist Regime, and the War of 1940-1943. Cambridge: Cambridge University Publishing, 2000.
Mallett, Robert. The Italian Navy and Fascist Expansionism, 1935-1940. London: Routledge, 2013.
Nicolle, David. The Italian Invasion of Abyssinia 1935-1936. Westminster, Maryland: Osprey, 1997.
Rodrigo J. “A fascist warfare? Italian fascism and war experience in the Spanish Civil War (1936-39).” War in History 26 no.1 (2019): 86-104. doi:10.1177/0968344517696526
Sadkovich, James J. “The Italo-Greek War in Context: Italian Priorities and Axis Diplomacy.” Journal of Contemporary History 28, no. 3 (1993): 439-64. www.jstor.org/stable/260641.
Sadkovich, James J. “Understanding Defeat: Reappraising Italy’s Role in World War II.” Journal of Contemporary History 24, no. 1 (1989): 27-61. www.jstor.org/stable/260699.
Stockings, Craig. “Something is wrong with our army…’ Command, Leadership & Italian Military Failure in the First Libyan Campaign, 1940-41.” Journal of Military and Strategic Studies 14, no. 1 (2011).
Thomas, Hugh. The Spanish Civil War. New York City: Random House, Inc., 2013.
Zickel, Raymond and Walter R. Iwaskiw, editors. “Albania: A Country Study.” Washington, D.C.: Library of Congress, 1994.
Music:
Armchair Historian Theme - Zach Heyde
Boneyard Dance - Jon Algar
The Architect - Bonnie Grace
The Melancholy Waltz - Howard Harper-Barnes
Dark Shadow - Etienne Roussel
Kingdom Of Baghk - Vusal Zeinalov
Thread the Needle - Gavin Luke
Last March Of Heroes - Grant Newman
Support this channel by checking our NordVPN exclusive deal at nordvpn.com/historyvpn
You can try it risk-free thanks to their 30-day money-back guarantee!
Sign up for Armchair History TV today! armchairhistory.tv/
Promo code: ARMCHAIRHISTORY for 50% OFF
Merchandise available at store.armchairhistory.tv/
Check out the new Armchair History TV Mobile App too!
apps.apple.com/us/app/armchair-history-tv/id1514643375
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tv.uscreen.armchairhistorytv
Discord: discord.gg/zY5jzKp
Twitter: twitter.com/ArmchairHist
fax machines
and in Budapest well, some of them would fight till the end
Nice as always. Will you do a video about the spanish american war of 1898?
@John Grigg Unless things have really, *really* improved a lot in the past year or two, TIS is crap.
could you do the Rhodesian bush war
After seeing the thumbnail, I wanna see someone make a Mario Kart-style racing game with various historical figures and appropriate vehicles for each of them.
It is possible
the italian tank should fall apart if it touched anyone else but it goes faster than usual since it discarded pesky things like working guns
Blue Shell to Berlin?
Stalin is Wario. Hitler is Luigi
That'd be incredible. The racing tracks would be different historical battles lol. Like racing through the ruins of Stalingrad
Yeah, I feel really bad for the Italian soldiers. Rommel himself said that the Italian soldiers were incredibly brave and effective, but the leadership just didn't supply them and their generals sucked.
That tends to be the case in dictatorships, good generals tend to be threats to dictators' power so usually dictators always appoint the most loyal generals instead of the most qualified ones.
as one qute goes: the geramn soilder has astonieshed the world the italien solieder has atonished the german solieder
Plus, remember that a number of Italians didn't really want the war, especially in areas where the fascists had less political support. Italy may have gotten off easier than say Germany or Japan, but their bigger ambitions on the world stage and much of their economic power for a while were completely wrecked by Mussolini's hubris and hunger for glory (and also were tarnished by their association with Hitler and oppression of Ethiopia). A really sad situation.
The French army was also very similar in this regard if I recall correctly.
reminds me of the phrase "Lions led by donkeys"
My grandfather fought in Italy during WW2 and I couldn’t believe he came back alive. He told me once when I was a kid that the Italian soldiers didn’t know what they were doing and that worked to his advantage. He came back a broken man and was an alcoholic for many years. By the time I was born he had quit drinking and switched to chocolate treats which was awesome for me. My grandfather and I would sit and watch Star Trek TNG and eat chocolate, all the while he told me this is a future he’d like to see, he was a peaceful man.
god bless your family bro,thanks for sharing,i like family ww2 story
Sounds like a great guy. I wish I were close to my other family members. But years of abuse from my mom and dad have made me innately distrustful of family.
holy crap, italians watch star trek?
thank you for sharing. My mother had changed alcohol by chocolates too , and is awesome.
the best for you brother.
Thank you for your non-drippy humanism. Something of real substance.
They might have been slightly more effective if they didn't invade Greece and Egypt at the same time, therefore weakening both attacks.
plus the fact the Greeks trounced them
Well. Germany was taking all the resources to. Italy didn’t have good factories etc. Greek troops had high morale but ill supplied.
@@marcokite greeks lost the war against the italians!
The reason why Italy also lost against Greece was because Britain supported, trained, helped and gave them weapons/tanks to push the Fascists back into Albania.
@@marcokite there's no "plus" when the reason the greeks trounced them is because they had half their forces in egypt lol
Italy modernised "too early", their ideas were formed in WW1 and then put to test in the Africa campaigns and eventually the Spanish Civil War. For example, they saw how slow, unwieldy and utterly useless in mountainous regions tanks were in WW1 and came to the conclusion that they need quick, light and small fire support and went with the tankette. They saw how large formations of men performed worse than smaller faster specialised units so they split up their battle formations and issued lots of carbines, light machine guns and bicycles. They saw how U-Boats sunk mighty warships and went for light cruisers, speed boats and submarines. They realised planes were the future and let Italo Balbo build the most modern air force of the time.
Basically, they had a headstart in the 20s and early 30s while everyone else was holding back but had already blown all their money by the time everyone else modernised and got stuck with a freshly modernised but through recent leaps in technology already cripplingly obsolete force. Like Blockbuster investing heavily into BlueRay and HighDef-DVD rentals right before Netflix shows up...
And also entering a war without the capacity to sustain it and adapt long-term. We thought it would have been a short war with a peace treaty with Britain.
This was an interesting summary--thanks!
Too early and then too late or better entered WW2 while modernizing.
After the campaign in Ethiopia and the intervention in Spain the Italian military understood that it needed better gear and weapons to fight the next war, in fact around 1937 a lot of new wapons started being designed and produced but that due to the war were never adopted in really large numbers
They also didnt have very much industry to make changes when they did figure it out.
The real problem with the analogy is the Redbox killed Blockbuster, not Netflix. Not enough people had high speed internet for streaming to kill video rentals at the time, but paying only $1 for a rental at one of many kiosks instead of going into a store to pay 3 or more times that a real deathblow to brick & mortar video stores
Italy is the ultimate proof that its soldiers can be brave, but if their logistics are bad. If your technology lags behind your enemies. If your leaders do not know how to recognize your limitations in the war effort: your nation will be an eternal joke in military historiography.
That's what happened to China in the 19th Century. Centuries of power and technological advancement had lagged to the point Britain and France literally smashed them in conflicts like the Second Opium War. An unbelievable downfall for an empire that had literally invented rockets, cannons and gunpowder.
Makes Sense.
Basically lions led by lambs.......
That sounds familiar, but I still think Russia needs to be nuked.
You mean France 2.0 ?
It's a huge subject, Italy's performance in WW2. Complex, too. All I can add is something my mother told me - she was a young nurse in the 60's. Got to know an Italian doctor who had lived through the Fascist era. He told her, mom said to me, that the vast majority of Italians had not the slightest interest in anything Mussolini or the Fascist Party wanted for Italy.
But Italy is a failed nation on many levels The morale, training and general fitness of the soldiers was so bad, when I grew up I heard the joke: What is the Italian flag of war? A white cross on a white background.
The Italian nation broke their pre-WW1 treaties and betrayed their allies. Then they had to be "rescued" by several French and British divisions cause their entire army was in a rout after the Battle of Karfreit (Caporetto).
In and before WW2, as the video stated, they engaged in "adventures". Wasting resources for no gain at all. It was total political and military bankruptcy.
These days, the Italian state owes about a trillion Euro to the ECB in target2 overdrafts. In addition to their 1xx% of GDP general debt.
Being an enemy of Italy is better than being their friend, try to change my mind!
@@donaldduck830 False information. Italy had a defensive alliance with Germany, because France invading Tunisia and deciding not to have talks with Italy on thew topic of colonial expansion scared Italy. Germany, since its unification, helped Italy where the French didn't and so the two countries were rising powers, both going at war against Austria.
The defensive alliance with the Central Powers was, you read it, defensive - and is on par with thousand years of European alliance games conducted by other nations.
At Caporetto Germany bought their elite troops in support of the Austrians, and it indeed was Italy's heaviest defeat ever.
Without Italian logistics and support, Germany would never have been able to defend its southern flank. 2/3 of Rommel's troops were Italians, and I don't see Anglosaxons going around criticising Rommel much. Though, while the Germans surrendered or retreated, Italians kept fighting, defended Germans retreats in Africa and Russia.
When Italy surrendered, Germany invaded it and threatened its troops, who were now neutral. This sparkled Italy in defending its armed forces, territory and people against Germany.
@@gs7828 Fascinating fantasy. Smoking copium much?
I very vividly remember the time I, an Australian of Italian descent, asked my grandmother what she thought of Mussolini. All she said to me was that she didn’t like how his men confiscated the gold jewellery of women in her village. Sure, there were loyal fascists (my grandfather was one of them for reasons incomprehensible to me) but distaste for fascism was pervasive throughout the country. Nonna was probably as disconnected from the politics of the day as anyone could have been, and even she had a bone to pick. It doesn’t surprise me that of the main Axis leaders, Mussolini was the only one to be killed by his own countrymen.
@@donaldduck830 what happened, did your wife leave you for an Italian?
Very cool video. My grandpa was one of those guys at the beginning fighting in Libya. He was leading a small group of men and decided to surrender to the brits to save their lives. They got captured by the brits and stayed prisoner till the end of the war. My grandma always tells that, when he was finally released and sent home, he asked his mother to make a lot of tea, only to splash his feet in it, as tea was likely the only thing they were given in captivity by the english.
He had later also some troubles with the military authority that questioned his bravery and dedication, for surrendering in battle. He never spoke of those days but he lived a happy life and started a nice family in Rome and died in 1996.
It was a coalition of Indians, Brits, Libyans, Canadians etc. Brits like to take credit for a bravery that was absent. Most of the fierce fighting was undertaken by allies. And at this point Italians were afflicted by dysentry, tuberculosis and battle fatigue. Italians were broken at the point of surrender in the bigger campaigns of Nth Africa. The axis was close to shutting down 'the English coalition'. And as some illinformed people have said: America entered the War half way, that is false. America entered the North Africa campaign as the axis had the complete upper hand. By then Americas entrance sealed the Axis coffin. Brits bear too much certitude over Italy's and Germany's loss. They always invert stories of Axis success into failures, why? 1. They were losing North Africa. 2. Limeys are inherently negativistic and have always hated Italians. My paternal Grandfather fought in north Africa, he died from tuberculosis, I never met him. My father doesn't remember him. See how brutal war is? Case closed!
Brits don’t hate Italians,they get on well, France is their traditional rival. The US troops landed in North Africa in Morocco on November 8 1942 (aided by the British), the second battle of El Alamein was between the British 8th army and the Axis forces under Rommel between 23 October and 11 November 1942. The British had won decisively by 4 November, before the US had even landed. El Alamein is recognised as the turning point of the North Africa campaign, after that it was just cleaning up. You are right that the British army came from all over the British Empire as well as the UK, that’s how empires work. There were also Polish, Czech, Greek and Free French soldiers but no Americans, they were late to the war, as usual.
You and him are too clowns and a shame.
My grandfather was a soldier in the Italian Army during this war. He was stationed in North Africa along 10000 Italian soldiers and they indeed had alot of logistical issues but this wasn't the biggest issue. The worst problem for him was the incompetency/cruelty of the officers, mostly Blackshirts (usually put there for their loyalty to the government rather than for their skills). At one point, they were so hated by their men that they only gave ammunitions to the soldiers just before an assault and they guarded the storages permanently for fear of mutiny. When the British came with a few vehicles, the Blackshirts fled and the soldiers who were still without ammunitions and with no more leadership surrendered to a force 100 times smaller than themselves. In the end, I think it illustrates how corruption and low moral can destroy any army's effectiveness.
Your example shows home fascists national thieves view others doing their dirty work. Like Hostage Accomplices.
My Grandfather also fought in NAfrica during WW2, he told me a lot of interesting things. To much to post though
Yes but think about how powerful the Germans were, so it's a very interesting subject.
@@TravelGuy1111a strong society plagued by a mad junkie of a leader wasting resources and creating a culture of fear and tunnel vision
@@eworldRick germans were facist and they did not suffer from this
My grandfather served on an Italian submarine in the North-African front and was eventually captured around Tobruk, in Lybia. He spent a few years in the US as a prisoner, where he experienced many unprecedented things he had never seen in rural Italy such as tennis, exotic fruits and dental care. He even spent Christmas during his captivity with an American family he had befriended.
Many italian prisoners became part of the "ISU" italian service units, where they were able to leave american pow camps and actually join the allied war effort using their skills whether it be farming, working in factories, etc. Only a few italian POW's were fanatics, and many after the war stayed out in nebraska because they fell in love with the people, opportunity and the open land.
Americans Treating their prisoners better than it’s citizens
@@yawpapa12 I guess you don’t get it - it’s advantageous to make an enemy your friend -
@@mrSlobcat Much the same here many Italian pow's worked on farms and stayed on after the war.
@@yawpapa12 in this way the prisoner of war when he returns home will speak well of the USA, and will make propaganda for you. Those who ended up captured by the Russians (and were lucky enough to return) told a very different story
Art team absolutely nailed this video. Great work!
Kudos for the preparation - also one of the documentaries I have seen with almost flawless Italian pronunciation: well done!
In my opinion, Italy also struggled with modernization of their military, as it was noted in this video, they barely had any trucks, something so crucial for keeping up supply lines and such, and something that was almost a necessity when waging a modern war. One of the most important things is that They also lacked tanks, sure they had their own designs but they were incredibly obsolete compared to the ones the Allies had, and they only had a couple designs, not to mention that most of Italy’s tank force wasn’t made up of actual tanks, but rather tankettes, which were incredibly outgunned and again obsolete in every aspect possible, which was proven by how poorly Polish tankettes did against German armour in 1939. The Italians only had (from my knowledge) one medium tank design that was produced in great numbers, and even that was *still* outdated with obsolete armour.
All of this mentioned in the video had a huge detriment to Italy’s performance as a military power. Additionally, From what I know, a lot of the stuff the Italians used were supplied by Germany, mainly vehicles like the Panzer III and IV, and things like halftracks, which further shortened their supply on the western and eastern fronts as they had to divert supplies to the Italians, putting a strain on Germany’s supply lines, you could almost compare it in some ways to WW1, with the German Empire and Austria Hungry, with the Germans always having to swoop in and win battles for then Austro-Hungarians, for instance after the Brusilov Offensive in 1916, most of the ground lost by the Austrians was regained by the Germans arriving from the west. (though I may not be entirely correct on just how often the Germans won crucial battles for them), it was very similar during WW2, with examples like Greece and most importantly, North Africa.
In short, it’s incredibly clear that there were a lot of things wrong with Italy before the war even started, from almost all standpoints, economic, governmental, industrial and logistical. It was simply not ready to wage a war with all of these problems, let alone a world war.
However, that’s not to say that they were entirely useless, Italian soldiers showed exemplary bravery time and time again during the war, showing that they were very formidable and brave fighters despite things like lack of training and equipment, yet it was overshadowed by bad logistics and strategies that simply could not be looked over, because . . . Well they were largely ineffective as a military when you look at in even from an outside perspective. Overall, I’m glad you touched on this Armchair Historian, I always look forward to what you have in store whenever you upload.
Wait a minute… Have we met before?
They performed so badly against Ethiopia that both british and German advisors believed Ethiopia was going to win, but the chemical weapons changed it all
@@JohnDoe-sw1rs The Ethiopian campaign is the largest colonial campaign ever, and it is even studied in half Europe war academies.
The italians had superior firepower, modern tactics compared to Ethiopians, radios, engineer companies to build roads and communications, and loads of aircrafts and tactical bombers. In just 6 months (the international community predicted at least one year) the war was won, and despite propaganda, the usage of gas was very limited, also considering there is no actual document witnessing that, and that it was verified only in usage for antipartisan actions against Ethiopian guerrilla in 1937-1939 to kill Ethiopian partisans hidden in the caves and the holes of the great rift valley. The legend of it being used because italian troops were losing is just 80 years old propaganda used by British to impose sanctions.
Italy managed to conquer a nation bigger 3 times her, with troops 3000km far from home, in less than 6 months, with the troops in constant advance (only one thousand men got killed in this massive campaign, while Ethiopian lost tenths of thousands), stopping the operations just during the Christmas period, because the Ethiopian territory (which is composed by 80% of mountains, one of the worst terrain in which an advancing army can fight) during that time evidently had severe limitations due to winter (rain and mud).
So let's open an history book, or at least don't comment with useless post without even knowing what you are talking about, if you think that history can be learnt through memes, well then you are wrong.
@@flavioric right, from what I’ve heard, the Ethiopians put up one hell of a fight, which is quite respectable considering how outgunned they seemingly were. I didn’t know the Italians used chemical weapons there though . . . Was it like ww1 era chlorine or something?
@@flavioric it still doesn’t seem like it is that impressive of a campaign, it simply seems like what was expected from what you are saying (I have no idea how accurate you are tho). How is it the biggest colonial campaign tho? India, Indonesia and Brazil are bigger.
My great grandfather severed in the Italian army as a infantryman during the invasion of Albania, ww2 and the Italian civil war. He survived all of it and was scared by his experiences and didn't talk about the wars he fought in very much. He died at the age of 90 in 2007.
My grandfather was a recent immigrant from Calabria to the US. They had him fight against his home country at sea. He never once spoke about his time in the war, becoming very distant and disturbed when it was brought up.
Of course he survived. Hard to be killed when you run away from every battle.
@@oldmandoinghighkicksonlyin1368 or he was a great fighter and survived
My great grandfather was in the US Marines, fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. He fought at Saipan, Okinawa, and a few others. I was lucky enough to find his memoirs and read them, and his experiences sounded horrific. He never really opened up from what I understand, and died in 2008 at the age of 84. I never really knew him, but God rest his soul.
@@oldmandoinghighkicksonlyin1368 Have some respect for people who fought in the world's biggest, bloodiest conflict, asshole
This was pleasant to listen to while I worked. Had no idea it had such great and informative visuals as well.
I believe the information and unique spin on your message is awsome,it definitely sets you apart from others. thank you.
People talk about the "Lions led by Lambs" of WW1. The Italian high command of WW2 seemingly took that methodology and ran with it during WW2. Overall perfectly capable soldiers and some good designs ruined by inept and arrogant military and political command.
Special considering that they did improve a lot towards the end of ww1. By the time of ww2 they seemingly started from Scratch again.
Same with modern russia
Certified Luigi Cadorna moment.
@@F22onblockland Master of the Isonzo
There is one exception that can I think of, for a campaign unaddressed by this video (though it happened at the same time as these other campaigns). Amadeo the Duke of Aosta, a relative of the King, was the Italian commander in East Africa and he did a decent job (though not perfect) given the circumstances he was in. What makes that hilariously ironic is that you would have thought that he owed his rank more to nepotism than anyone else in the army, yet he was clearly more capable than Mussolini's other generals.
Been listening to audiobooks about WWII to better pass the time at work. I specifically remember a quote from one of the 'Desert Rats'; "Anyone who says the Italians didn't know how to fight never faced them on the battlefield."
Precisely, they were some of the best soldiers of the war, but their lack of resources, equipment, industry and competent leadership made this redundant. The will of a soldier can only carry the army for so long before it collapses.
If you find that audiobook can you please link it? I would gladly listen to it
No excuse they should have learned from ww1 and just joined the side that won that beyond stupid joining the losing side.
@@natstar7864 this comment makes me think that you have little to no actual knowledge on the subject you are talking about.
@@natstar7864 Well, when they joined the Axis, it *did* look like Germany was gonna win, at the time. They had defeated all of their land opponents and it was considered only a matter of time before the RAF would be crushed and then England was screwed. They didn't know Adolf was gonna pull a stupid and decide to pick a fight with the Soviet Union and then Japan was gonna tick off the US.
Just found this channel... my grandad was a POW for 4 years in WWII and I've never really dove into it. After bingeing documentaries found this channel and it's super cool. Good work.
one of Italy's other problems is that they heavily invested in upgrading their military in the 1920's and those expensive investments were obsolete by the late 1930's.
I like how the guys in the animation actually have the right guns, the brits have lee enfields and the italians have carcanos and beretta 38s
It's not quite right though, the Italians didn't use the Model 38 in Ethiopia because it didn't exist yet.
It's not quite right though, the Italians had garlic breadsticks
@@AC-hj9tv The pub 'bore'. Yaaaawn. At least you were imaginative enough to not use spaghetti in your 'joke'
@@kurtcoolson9054 I'll make you some spaghetti all’assassina 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
@@AC-hj9tv OK, I'll give you that one. Easy on the chillies though.
A wise man once said “don’t fear a competent enemy… fear an incompetent ally”
I like it.
If you have incompetent allies, you have already lost the war
Got to meet the wise man....
Bravissimo ..
Hindenburg said
' an Italian always an Italian
Now it's how one looks at it ..
Without Italy, Germany would not have been able to wage a war on its southern flank and the Allies would have surrounded it. Let's clarify that.
@@gs7828 without Italy the Germans wouldn’t need to be in North Africa and open a 3rd front or invade Greece diverting men, equipment and planes…. Let’s acknowledge that
“He tried to take British Somaliland and that went pretty well. Then he tried to take Egypt which went less well. Then he tried to take Greece and that went really badly. Churchill began to describe Italy as Europe’s soft underbelly.”
Is this over simplified refrence
Italian weaponry wasn't by design inferior. It was their lack of standardization that made it end up the way it did. A lot of their weaponry was actually well designed and built given the circumstances. I personally own quite a bit of historical weaponry and my Carcano is by far the nicest WW2 era gun I've fired, solidly built, clean action, low recoil, and accurate to boot. All good things for an infantry rifle, that being said they did make quite a lot of mistakes in planning and logistics, including trying to change to an untested rifle & caliber mid-war.
I would have phrased it as their lack of standardization instead of inferior weaponry.
An Italian Australian friend of my Irish father's told us that he was given the job of guarding Italian prisoners of war in Britain. He bantered with them in Italian and the Aussies found them good natured and harmless. As he was boarding the train, he even handed them his rifle. They handed it straight back to once he was on the train. The Italians were very interested in Australia. He sponsored some of these POWs to migrate to Australia after the war. Thousands of Italians poured into Australia after WW2. Melbourne's Little Italy is world famous for its coffees and pizzas
My grandfather was on of them. He fought in Africa and when he was captured, was sent to India before was sent in Australia to work in a farm as a PoW. He came from south italy (Calabria) and at that time almost everyone had at least a small piece of land , so it was like in his element. He was quite a man, full of integrity, he returned in Italy after the war. Sadly I've never met him, he died 10 years before I was born. We recently found and old diary of his, where he wrote some letter in English, taught by some American priest, to the Australian family there in Hawthorne I think. This thing, as much the beauty of his calligraphy amazed me.
The Italians "deployed mustard gas" on civilians
Similarly, in the UK most of the Italian POWs worked on local farms during the day with little to no surveillance. Unlike the German prisoners, (although quite a few of them were happy with their lot too) there seemed to be almost no ideologues or fanatics who were desperate to escape or display animosity towards their captors.
If that even partly translated to the battlefield, then there must have been large swathes of the Italian army who did what they needed to do to survive and fit in, but who weren't wildly enthusiastic about dying for the cause.
@pyropulse It's pronounced Melbourne, not Melbourne. Get it right
Agree. During the war my Mum lived near the Cowra POW camp in NSW, Australia. Italians and Germans were allowed to work on the farms, which were struggling with a manpower shortage. Realtions between the Italians and locals was good, there were never any problems.
Italian soldiers: “SIR WE ARE TRYING OUR BEST”
Italian commanders: “Don’t worry. Steiner’s Counterattack will save us!”
“What do you mean Steiner? IT’S 1943”
"Mein Fuhrer... Steiner..."
Italian soldiers:"who?"
Another one:"I don't know man i only wanted eat my pizza"
What
Rofl
Give me 2 battalions of aussies to win the battle and 1 battalion of kiwis to hold it
In Andy Nidel's series "The Great War" he said that in World War I the Italian soldiers were fighting in cardboard shoes with wooden soles. You could see how things like that could breed distrust between the Italian soldiers and their officers and commanders.
No it isn't true, that happened during the second war when the Alpini troops were sent in the Don front in Soviet Union without adequate weapons and equipment (including shoes and clothes), yet obtaining the praise from the russians for their stoic and heroic defense while the rest of the army retreated and escaped from encirclement
Pardon my skepticism, but no one could survive in winter on the eastern front without good shoes and clothes. They couldn't make it. If they wore cardboard shoes on the eastern front in winter they would get frostbite so fast. Their feet would turn to chunks of ice.
@@georgepalmer5497 the commenter is right, what you are talking about happened in WW2, not WW1.
@@georgepalmer5497 yes that's exactly what happened, during the retreat of january 1943. The losses were about 50%, despite limited combat faced.
Didn’t the German army used to use crappy leather/paper helmets that provided 0 protection from fragmentation and bullets?
This is from my 98 year old Italian grandfather (in summary, not verbatim): We Italian citizens and army notoriously wanted absolutely nothing to do with the war. We hated Mussolini and his regime. We viewed (and stil view) Greece as brothers, and especially wanted no part of invading their country. This is why. We simply fought for survival, but that was it. Morale was always low. It was immensely difficult to get motivated to fight when you aren’t angry at who you’re going against, and you view them as brothers.
Some things to also add from myself….by most corroborating stories, the Italians were actually very good and brave soldiers, but lacked quality leadership (Mussolini was clueless with military tactics) and they lacked supplies. Even Rommel was always immensely complimentary to Italian soldiers, in his memoirs. Them coming up short in the war has nothing to do with them supposedly not being brave as some people seem to think and keep repeating old, fictitious, and tired jokes. The Italian Arditi (translates to “The Daring Ones”) were some of the most proficient, brave, and feared soldiers ever. During World War 1, the Italians were the most feared shock troops on the battlefield.
The Italian army had two huge problems that were really only hinted at here. One was that they mobilized and modernized their army about a decade before the British and Germans did, which meant by the time war broke out in Europe their economy was exhausted and their equipment was obsolete.
But worse than that was terrible leadership at every level. Mussolini had purged the professional officer corps and installed fascist lackeys. And the Italians never had enough professional NCOs. By concentrating all their best soldiers in elite formations like the Bersaglieri, they robbed regular divisions of talent. A good soldier is more valuable to the army as a corporal or sergeant in a regular division than as a private in an elite one. The Germans tended to do the same thing, but they invested a lot more into NCO training to start with.
it's a sad thing their soldiers had to listen to a bunch of mooks for leadership, but if that were not the case then the axis might have won the war, and god forbid what terrible things would happen
and the fact they are italian, too much pasta, too fat, cant fight
Some said, Italian forces worked much better under German command.
@@rscott2247 they are good workers, they need boss who at least know what they're doing
the leadership's biggest mistake was giving away its weapons to allies. it shouldve shored up as much weaponry if they were expecting to be on the attack
As an Italian, seeing all the speeches, messages and titles in perfect, believable and common real Italian with expressions and ways of speech that mimic perfectly Italian cadence, it absolutely warms my heart. Thank you for all the effort you and your crew put in this videos, they are a wonder to watch
Ti sei dunque arreso all'idea che gli anglofoni pronuncino "Macchi" come "Macci". Eppure le nostre regole fonetiche sono così semplici...
@@Torile0 No, ma so quando apprezzare un grande sforzo che supera di gran lunga l'abilità della maggior parte degli anglofoni e concedere che abbiano fatto assolutamente un ottimo lavoro anche se non perfetto.
why italy and italians were so bad in war?
@@cuzimmoody6470 The analysis in the video is spot on. Morale was quite low througout the entire conflict. Please also consider that the relationship between Italy and Germany wasn't always idilliac: Germans were our enemies in the previous war, and some skilled officiers and many people (especially highly educated ones), were disilluded by years of fascist regime.
On the other side you might be surprised about how effective were our partisan fights.
what are your thoughts on italy becoming facist again
Italy is like the player who is always getting carried
history is longer than the 2 world wars though
My great uncle was taken pow when allied forces landed in Sicily, he was taken in a prisoner camp in California, near Frisco, he learnt English and he worked as assistant in a military dental clinic, for him was almost a vacation (he passed away in 2005).
I absolutely love the thumbnail for this video, it's adorable 😁
what are you doing here haigs
Is is Cute! Small Il’duce in a L3/33C
Mussolini: "Mama Mia! A banana!"
Glad u liked it, was a fun one to draw. :)
Not so Fun fact. The CV33 cost as much as a panzer 2.
My grandfather used to tell stories of this era to me about 40 years ago. He remembered when they hung Mussolini. He remembered hearing some of Hitler's speeches, though he didn't know German and described him. I'm glad to have known people who lived during that time and made me interested in history itself.
well guess what, were living through it again in the usa with the grand old fascist party
The HoI4 reference with it crashing its pretty much the best depiction of it I've ever seen
Thanks guy. Your graphics are getting better.
I remember hearing about this in Mussolini: The Untold Story (tv series 1985) where the military advisors were telling Mussolini that they simply weren’t ready for any kind of offensives. Mussolini’s ego really got the better of him and Italy paid dearly for it.
Too true. Two superb books by British historians, "Mussolini," by Denis Mack Smith, and "The Brutal Friendship" (Hitler's own description), by F.W. Deakin, about Mussolini and Hitler, are worth finding and reading. Both make the point that while the Italian armed services were handicapped by supply, equipment and leadership failures, the ultimate responsibility lay with that blowhard Fascist bully Mussolini.
Socialists DO tend to be narcissists.
@@Kepora1he was kicked out of the italian socialist movement he wasnt a socialist
@@YOSSARIAN313 yeah no, that didn't make him stop being a socialist. He even called fascism "the most perfect form of socialism". He was a socialist. Fascism is socialism. What you THINK fascism is isn't fascism.
@@Kepora1calling yourself a socialist means nothing if you don't act like one. Would you call the Democratic Republic of Korea democratic? Probably not but they sure do. Names mean nothing in politics and Mussolini was not a socialist nor a leftist.
I find the superiority in WWII fighter aircraft and handling quite interesting, since in the niche world of propeller plane racing, the Italians have often been the best at producing aircraft. That, and shotguns for whatever reason. Olympic skeet is always between Italy and US.
Lol Like Japan Zero
Fiat G.55 - Best looking prop fighter ever made. Solid performance for a WW2 aircraft also, but like other Italian machinery, very few were made.
The shotgun comment checks out. As an American gun nerd, Raniero Testa might be the coolest living Italian, one of the best shooters I have ever seen, and is by far the best shotgun shooter I know of.
and I mean, Benelli, Franchi, Beretta, and those are just a few.
Mario Castoldi (the designer of M.C.200, M.C.202 and M.C.205 fighters) actually participated in the Schneider trophy races.
In fact, the whole race in the '20s and '30s was mainly between Castoldi and Reginald Mitchell.
It was a game of "tag" between the designs of two geniuses, and Britain won it at one point when Italy simply skipped a race due to technical problems.
Yet, a year or two later Castoldi presented M.C.72, which still holds the world record in speed for piston-engined seaplanes (over 700 kmph).
TL;DR - Castoldi was among the best aerodynamics professionals of his time, specializing in speed-focused designs. No wonder his fighters were fine too, although he never was proud of them, instead focusing on his civil designs.
I once met an old Maltese man living near il-Widna (Naxxar) who remembers the war.
According to him the Italian Air Force did want to fight, they just came threw away their bombs and went back. Life became difficult only after the Germans entered the fray.
He recounted how they would flee to the caves as soon as they were aware that the aircraft are coming to attack.
limey misinformation, you in ingland dude?
@@Bogancharisma nope, Malta
That’s crazy that Italy had an air force in WWII when neither the US or Japan even had one during that same time
Well...that was really only caused by the organization of their aviation assets. The US and the Japanese militaries certainly had very large "Air Forces" in WW2. But they instead choose to designate them as subdivisions that fell under their Army and Navy branches -- rather than as a separate branch like the Italians, British, or French had done.
@11:22. Whoever had the excellent idea of replicating that scene from The Lion King deserves a raise! That was awesome.
I LOVE the Lion King analogy. So true - Mussolini was nothing but talk and laughter - their only "victory" was Sidi Barrani where they dug in just to get wiped out of Egypt and all of Libya.
Be Prepared
@@fkjl4717 LOL I know right, there’s latterly a scene in that song where the Hyena’s did a military parade that was entirely modeled after on of Hitlers military marches.
Brilliant analysis of economic impact of alliances. Great job here!
Outstanding Presentation
Italy did have some pretty effective units during WW2, the Bersaglieri for example.
ONLY some pretty effective units. Lions led by donkeys.
@@bumpermanthesecond615 you’re absolutely right, the Italian military preformed very well while under German leadership in North Africa. The Italian soldiers fought well, but had terrible officers to command them.
Can't beat 9 french in a bunker tho
Good Point
Not to mention the 10th Flotilita that gave the Royal Navy a lot of headaches. Erwin Rommel held the Bersaglieri in very high regard.
Italian history is so underrated and one of my favourites to teach in the classroom. Thanks so much for covering this topic and for being a channel to look up to!
The history of Italy is often overshadowed by ancient Rome. Often people do not realize how Italy has always been important throughout history such as with the Renaissance, Neoclassicism, Baroque, Opera, and thousands of inventions and artistic masterpieces.
2 authors (also available in english):
- Lucy Riall
- Alessandro Barbero
Well, it's tough to discuss any history of "Italy" after Rome as it didn't really exist as an entity until 1860, and was not much of a shared idea until shortly before that time. Trying to assert a sense of nationality on a people so foreign to one another for so many years is tough, but trying to impose a sense of nationality prevalent throughout much of the remainder of Europe, which had developed over a much longer time-frame, as was in evidence by the dawn of the Twentieth Century was tougher still. For a "nation" so fractured until recently, what was there to fight for, let alobe die for, as an aggressor? Rome, as an empire, was too far in the past to motivate the vast majority of the people, particularly when any such expansion didn't seem to be able to create any next day positive effects on the living conditions of so many of them. This history does provide for some fascinating reading, but primarily because there was no "Italy" to speak of for such a long time.
@@richarddefortuna2252 What are you talking about, Italy was united as a concept by the Romans (Italia was the area of Rome, the rest were provinces). After the fall of Rome there was the kingdom of Italy ruled by the barbarians and there was a kingdom of Italy during the Napoleonic era. The Italian language was born between the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, when based on the Florentine, they found a language to associate with the poems, novels and music of the Italic states. Classical music with its operas in Italian was certainly not born after the unification of Italy hahaha
@@alessiovalentini4401 No, is pretty inacurate. After the fall of Roman Empire many provinces isolated themselfs to survive the many harsh periods they had to endure until the creation of the Comuni. There were kingdoms but they were not Italy's kingdom, they were in Italian Peninsula (like Pope State, the Kingdom of Two Sicilies, the Kingdom of Piemonte and so on).
Napoleon brought no unity with him, just occupation (that subsided once he was defeated). This is until the Risorgimento era, where Italy were officially declaired united.
Italian was NOT born in middle ages and reinassance, that's a straight lie.
Every city talked his own strand of dialect, there were never any attempt to create a language that could be spoken by everyone.
Alessandro Manzoni and the Accademia della Crusca worked very hard to create the italian language (based loosely on the Florentine dialect of 1800), and we had to wait up until the 1930 to had it spread enought that at least 70% of the population could understeand it (sadly but surely, Fascism helped much the spread of italian language to italian people).
Please inform yourself a little better, we have too many false ideas of our past inside our point of view.
Richard DeFortuna is actually right
Great story telling and graphics!
The Arditi would never had imagined this
The German soldier has impressed the world. But the Italian soldier has impressed the German soldier. -Erwin Rommel
German soldiers were always high on meth, so I'd tend to value their opinions less.
Oh, and there's the genocidal racism in their hearts.
Erwin Rommel was probably drunk at that moment.
@@abhinavmahan4006 Drunk on Italian wine.
But seriously though, I have to wonder what the Italian soldiers really would have been capable of if their nation only had competent leadership, better supplies, and fewer logistical issues.
Malick Fan ahahahah l’hai distruttk grande 💪💪
@@malickfan7461 it would probably be a formidable enemy to the allies and arguably, probably a reliable ally to germany
The one thing Italy you could say had in WWII was good elite special forces, such as the Folgore paratroopers, the XMAS San Marco marines, and the Alpini mountain troops however they can't win a war on their own.
I don't know if it's enough to say that they were also some of the war's best cavalry commanders, but I'm reminded of the "Devil Commander", Colonel Amedeo Guillet. While Italy did lose their east African holdings to the British, he and his men fought a ferocious guerilla campaign against them. Interestingly enough, later on in the war, he successfully led an Italian Social Republic unit to attack the "Garibaldi" partisans to reclaim the Ethiopian crown and return it to Haile Selassie. The guy has an incredible story I'd highly recommend everyone check out. Getting back to cavalry, there was also one instance on the Eastern Front where Italian cavalry stormed a Soviet position and ruined them, but I don't remember as much about that occasion.
I don't mean to say this in anyway overrides any of the points that Griffin made in his video, because it doesn't even come close. In fact, I'm surprised he only partially mentioned how poorly the different branches of the Italian Armed Forces supported each other. Thanks to almost all of Italy's military commanders being from aristocratic backgrounds, they thought it was more important to conserve and expand their own political power and military influence rather than support each other.
Edit: Changed Griffon to Griffin.
@@petesperandio2572 Italy was also tasked with governing Somalia for the UN after the war. Something which never happened with other losing powers.
XMAS ?
@@junglejack9954 X in that case is the Roman numeral for 10th. To briefly summarize, the 10th MAS were the template that future naval special forces units like the SEALs were eventually developed from. They're most famous for raiding the HMS Alexandria.
Their Frogmen commandos were also very well trained and effective. Particularly considering how difficult amphibious assault was at the time.
My great grandfather I believe it was served in world war 2, he earned I think 2 medals for capturing 11 Italians during the campaigns.
My grandfather was in WW2. During one time he came across a wounded Italian soldier and he showed my grandfather a photo of his family. My grandad must have felt sorry for him and he gave the soldier his bandage. My grandfather got into trouble for that but its not known if the soldier survived or not.
My dad fought the Italians all the way from Abissynia to Milan. As a kid I made some comment about the Italians not being good soldiers. After I got a clip 'round the earhole for "talking nonsense" I got a lesson on the Alpini regiments. They fought bravely in both world wars.
See battle of Keren
@@commenter4190
John Vento replied to your comment on an answer to: "What was the strange Greco-Italian War decided by Mussolini?"
Joe, the guy’s a jealous, envious, no life, psychologically impaired nit wit with the mind and personality of a pre teen. All you need to know, he refuses to reveal his ethnicity and where he lives because he knows he cannot compete with modern or ancient Italy’s history. He’s been deleted on YT and returns with multiple new channels almost immediately. I can guarantee he has multiple accounts on Quora. If this is not more than one person then this nit wit spends his nights and days trolling BS and little else. I can debunk every one of those points and have, the nit wit only continues to circle jerk the same lies. He cherry picks data and articles that paint Italy in a negative light. I can do the same with any country.
He can’t win arguments on merit and truth so his only option is to respond with juvenile taunts or post questions on Quora attempting to show Italy/Italians in a negative light. I simply love sticking it to him with the facts knowing there is no way I can lose since Italy is the greatest country in world history achievements and top 10 rated in virtually every category today.
Just enjoy the show.This is John's apt description of John Bass/Sursumkorda.
@@commenter4190 👍
>Be Italian WW2 soldier
> sent to Africa
> issued a 1890s surplus rifle and only two boxes of ammunition
> here comes 5,000 British troops, your out numbered 5-2
> run out of ammo ,misses mostly
> run out of grenades
> surrender .
Very informative. Well worth watching. 🙂
The Italians threw grenades at the British. The British pulled the pins and threw them back
especially when 32.000 brits surrendered to the italians in tobruck in 1942 or the 130.000 anglos who dropped their "never used" rifles to just 40.000 japanese at Singapore in 1942 too!
1) sketchy vehicles
2) poor logistics
3) sub-par service rifles. The Corcano was not an awful rifle but very dated. The 6.5mm cartridge was very weak.
4) politicised military
5) Mussolini
6) very poor general morale
7) inadequate industrial base/ lack of resources
8) Italy was not prepared
However credit is due to Alpini. Bersaglieri and Folgore who gave good accounts of themselves
Firearm experts says all the time that the carcano was fine. Hell, Ian said that the 7.35 one was one of the best of the war. But the rifle itself doesn't count much. The lmg was shitty, and that's more important than the rifle
Don't forget Hitler basically pushed Italy into going to war with Greece before it was ready.
Also the Carcano was a pretty good rifle for the time and place it was made, a'lot of Italian WW2 equipment is unfairly brushed off as bad when a'lot of it is actually pretty good, like the Beretta 1934 and the Modello 38 SMG.
@@imyourdaddy5822 if I remember correctly, Mussolini told Hitler that Italy needed at least some five years still
@@imyourdaddy5822 Hitler was actually upset that Italy decided to attack Greece because they couldnt handle it and needed German help.
@@jjdelft3216 Essentially, Mussolini thought Hitler was planning to invade Greece so he thought he had to get while he could, but Hitler actually didn't expect Mussolini to invade Greece and was caught off guard when he did and needed support.
This was also the case when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Hitler wanted Japan to fight Russia in the east, but instead they brought America into the fight.
My great grandfather, apparently a high ranking mafioso member had to flee Sicily and moved his family to Tunisia Africa when Mussolini came to power. His son (my grandfather) would later be conscripted by the Germans to fight the allies during the North African campaign. Sure enough, they were horribly outgunned, outmaneuvered and not motivated to fight for fascists. My grandfather was eventually taken to a POW camp in Berkeley CA where he meant my grandmother. After going through the process of becoming a U.S. citizen, they had 3 children….and that is my family’s immigration story.
How did he meet her in a pow camp
So you're just gonna admit that your family was part of the mafia, just like that
@@skyhappy because the Americans let the local Italians socialize with the Italian POWs outside the camp
@@yasininn76 it's 2022 it's probably fine
@@yasininn76
So what? There's a black sheep in every family.
Italy was a poor rural country during that time and only the northern part was industrialized
- Dunkirk Disaster
- Fall of Singapore
- PQ 17 Convoy Disaster
- Battle Axe Defeat
- Fall of Tobruk
- Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse Battleships.
- Sinking of Battleships Queen Elisabeth and Valiant at Alexandria ,
Arnhem ( A Bridge too Far ) ...
Shall we continue ???
there's enough salt in this comment to make an ocean
Please proceed.
My hats off to the animators. They really help with the storytelling.
German joke:
Why does an Italian tank have 3 gears? 2 reverse and 1, if the enemy comes from behind.
What I love most about this vid: that Mussolini dropped a pic of Dwight Schrute in the Discord at 6:25
as a fan of The Office, it is a detail/reference that I appreciate so much, as Dwight's Speech is one of my favorite episodes of the show. That not only was Dwight's acceptance speech based off an actual Mussolini speech and written by Jim as revenge, but that the episode itself was written by the guy who played Toby...the episode is truly a work of art (Paul Lieberstein). You sir are a man of culture
Also "Parisian Gulf" I didn't know Paris had a gulf 😉...enGULFing a croissant is more like it
😂
One note of correction, at the start of the war the Regia Marina had six Battleships. However, four of these were modernized WWI and interwar vessels with 12 inch caliber guns, which effectively made them obsolete compared to their British counterparts, though still decidedly lethal for enemy cruisers and destroyers. The raid on Taranto initially removed three of these battleships due to damage from operations for months.
Also, Italian gunnery was superb, the primary drawback being old rangefinding equipment, from what I understand.
@@Dr.LightMarker5613 old rangefinding, lack of radar and the subpar quality of Italian manufacture with their shells and barrels.
Shame he didnt mention the Italian raid of Alexandria.
@@ArenBerberian The Italian frogmen were the best in the world.
@@Dr.LightMarker5613 no, they had exceptionally good optical rangefinding equipment.
17:15 How do you come to the conclusion that Italy only had 2 battleships at the outbreak of the war? Even when excluding Littorio and Vittorio Veneto, which were both commisioned before Italy joined the war in june 1940, they still had the 2 remaining Conte di Cavour's and 2 Andrea Doria/Caio-Duilio's. It's either 4 (in 1939) or 6 (in june 1940) battleships for Italy.
He glosses over far too many facts... Like a friend says, facts don't make for good viewing.
"Modern" Battleships, which if the same calculus was used for the UK would mean HMS Hood didn't exist, and the Bismark sunk a relic of the past war, which is arguable.
No one gives a fuckw
@@twotone3471 Wasn't the hood a battlecruiser?
@@KonglomeratYT It was a Battlecruiser, and then it was not. The Hood got a refit, and upgraded armor scheme before WW2.
Perfect animations ! :)
Before Italy entered the war, Mussolini kept telling Hitler that Italy's industrial capacity was not capable of a sustained action. Italy's military didn't have much 'institutional/generational' knowledge to fight a war and the general staff were chosen more for their loyalty than competence as military planners/leaders. Thank you.
I play a lot of War Thunder, and when Italian tanks were added to the game, I took it upon myself to "main" that nation throughout the game, in the air and on the ground. What followed was a long process of not only playing the game and unlocking those vehicles and aircraft to play, but more than anything, it was an excuse for me to indulge my love of history again. I studied Italy before, during, and after the war, and now up to the modern day. I researched their air force and army, read about their tanks and aircraft, their weapons, and their soldiers. I don't know what drove me to study Italy specifically for this long, but I've been fascinated by it ever since.
To say they're just the punching bag or laughing stock of WWII isn't entirely inaccurate, but there's a reason for everything. Sure, Italian tanks were garbage compared to Shermans, Panzers, T-34s, etc., but their aircraft were some of the best produced by any country involved in the conflict. The C.202, the G.55, even the bombers like the SM.79, they were works of art, beautiful in both form and function. I love looking at more specific examples of fine weaponry as well, like the Beretta Modello 1938, one of the best submachinegun designs of the war. Clearly, there were great minds and workers on their side. It's even more interesting to me to look at the poor examples and find out what happened, so I really appreciate videos like this.
Admit it. You just tortured everyone with the r3. I see right through your cover story.
@@amckittrick7951 I spaded it, then barely used it. I'm not one for spamming overpowered vehicles or vehicles with toxic play styles.
@@ODST_Parker ha that's good to hear.
@@ODST_Parker bullying bmps in an L3 is fun.
The tank destroyers (or assault guns if you prefer that) were also effective.
My maternal grandfather was conscripted into the Italian artillery at the tail end of WW2, and then helped in the european rebuilding effort, where he met my Finnish grandmother and moved to Canada. I never got to meet him, as he died a few years before i was born, and i never got the chance to ask him about his experiences at this time in history. Thank you for sharing this video! It was incredibly informative and interesting!.
Nicely done.
Loving the Discord and HoI 4 animations!
Really liked the animation on this one. And whoever does your research and writing is the best!
This by far have to be the best-looking episode you've ever done. Well done! At some point I hope you re release some of your older episodes with the new art style oh, but I realized that is both expensive and not likely to be profitable.
Italy was a semi industrialized country fighting in a war between industrialized countries
13:05 Hearts Of Iron series reference.
This video was a colossal improvement over the last time this topic was covered. I'm not saying that the last one was bad, it was already good in it's own right, but this along with improved animations, and still showing that Johnsen is still a meme lord, makes this video an amazing documentary.
I loved the small discord bit in this video, it kinda fits with how many memes there are about Italy during the war
Italy did same mistake as Germany. Attacking everyone around at the same time and being overly confident.
More you look Axis , or Pact of Steel , more you realise it was an ineffective , disorganised and dysfunctional partnership where partners do not like each other , just in for their own short term gains and advantages at the expanse of their partners who do not hesitate to backstab or exploit or inconvenience or get on their way each other in strategy.
Sounds like the Chinese-Russian relationship irl
Not much difference to the alliance between the Western Allies and Soviet Union.
@@AlexanderYap i mean they tended to stay out of the way of each other while the axis tended to try to backstab each other or made the war harder
@@AlexanderYap Stalin is smart enough not to do anything stupid against the others while he is on the backfoot or the offensive. He played his hand far better than the Axis...
I'd love to see someone talk about the partisan battles fought in Italy after the armistice. Many cities actually liberated themselves days or weeks before the allies arrived, and there are tons of interesting stories about them!
I just did. Why didn't you listen?
Yeah the Mafia running Sicily and the south welcoming the US where they had huge business going on, wasn't mentioned
@@cruiser6260 also Mussolini trying to destroy the Maffia. I heard there were Maffia rules to not disrupt any shipping activities from the US to Brittain in order to bring him down asap
Partisan activates were most effectively routed through what became the Mafia! ;p Thanks USA for your typical short term win philosophy!
the american OSS operational groups contributed air drops to the northern partisans, who then would strategically bomb tunnels, roads, motor pools and teleferiques. There was a documentary about 20 years ago where an american professor interviewed the last of the OSS as well as the partisans in italy who were part of these missions.
Many Italian men were given no choice to fight. They were told you will join or be killed. Instead of dying they surrendered to the British. I am thankful because my grandfather survived and came to the US. Can't say I blame him.
He made the right decision.
There's no honor in dying for a dictator's cause you want nothing to do with. I highly respect individuality and the men who chose to live rather than die for a lost cause. In fact, I have two boys that are coming of age and they'll join the military over my dead body; drafted or not!
There were a few other countries involved with the invasion of Sicily. Canada, Australia and .New Zealand were just three of the countries involved in that campaign.
I haven't had your videos in my recommended in some time. The art in your recent videos is fantastic.
These Animations keep getting better. Keep up the great work!
As what Captain Bertirelli from me and my husband’s favorite British sitcom Allo’ Allo’ would say
“what a mistake-ka to make-ka” love what you do Armchair historian!
I've trained with Alpinis, Regular Army, and the Carabiniere.
The Alpinis were the toughest and best trained. We did jump exchanges with them.
Dear Griffin, this was a great redo of an old video. While we're on the topic of the Italian military, I'd really love to see a video about the evolution of Italian army uniforms.
The art work for Italian unifroms in this vid were excellent, so that would be a good vid.
Yes!!!
Maybe he can collaborate with "uniform history"
So glad that this was updated! The previous version a few years ago was a bit too simplified, but was nevertheless still a good video! Keep it up!
It’s a shame because before the war actually started, the Italian military leaders stated that they just wouldn’t be truly ready until like the 1950s
In other words almost ready.
TL;DR: for people who needs their 25 minutes:
1 - Germany opened war several years earlier than Italy expected (having almost no time to prepare)
2 - Italy is a mountainous AND island region, the worst combination for tanks outside an open sea
Italy's blunders were largely strategic. It's military did well, when the chance presented, but it frequently had to work from very bad strategic positions, all because of Mussolini's decisions.
Absolutely. Italy should never have declared war on France and Britain to begin with. They were great powers out of Italy's league. Even Germany could only defeat Britain on land, not at sea or in the air.
If I had been Mussolini's adviser, I would have told him to declare war on Yugoslavia in June 1940, instead of on France and Britain. Yugoslavia had a defensive alliance with Greece, so it's very likely Italy would end up at war with Greece as well.
With France on the brink of defeat by Germany, Britain would not have been in a hurry to fight Italy unless she had no choice - when your back is to the wall fighting a powerful bully like Hitler, it's not smart to choose that moment to pick a fight with another bully.
So in June 1940, Italy could have attacked Yugoslavia and Greece, and Britain would have stayed out of it, for as long as Germany stayed out of it. Italy probably could have handled Yugoslavia and Greece if she didn't have to fight the British Empire in Africa at the same time. It would have been a Balkan war happening in parallel with, but separate from, Hitler's war.
Of course, Italy should have stayed out of Germany's war with Russia as well - Italy never had anything to gain from that.
@@timonsolus i believe they should not invade Greece at all. What the point? Metaxas was not pro-British, Greece had scarce resources... instead they should do joint (with Greece) invasion of Turkey, so Axis could invade Caucasus from here. Claims on Antalya/Anatolia also were a stain of blood from WW1.
@@fkjl4717 : Interesting idea, but I very much doubt Greece would agree to it. Greece and Turkey actually had good relations between 1930 and 1941, and were even allies in an anti-Bulgarian pact (the Balkan Pact) along with Rumania and Yugoslavia.
@@timonsolus Italy apparently was counting on Bulgaria to invade Greece at the same time that Italy did. But Turkey menaced Bulgaria of intervention in help of Greece, Bulgaria did not move, the Italian Army invaded Greece with fewer divisions than Greece had, in November, on mountainous terrain, a perfect recipe for disaster. Without this "tidbit", the Italian decision to invade Greece with a small army seems totally absurd and, in fact, it was absurd.
Leadership sucked there
While all that equipment given to Spain wouldn’t have changed the course of the war, just think about how much Italy could’ve made the war a lot more difficult for the Allies in Africa and in mainland Italy.
Think how much more difficult it would have been if Francisco and his Spanish soldiers and german equipment took part in the war. They were still processing the huge civil war they just had so that's why they sat out the war. Good thing too or they would have been erased from all govt positions. Instead franco stayed in power until the early to mid 70s.
The core of fascist army in Spain were the "african" troops, who, at the time of the uprising were........in Africa (Morocco).
With most of the Spanish navy on the side of republican goverment, there was no way the rebels could transport their most effective and expirience troops to the spanish mainland.
This was made posible only by german and italian intervention, so yes, forgein intervention changed the course of the war....
@@jorgebarriosmur And yet they did it. The german and italian help came after most of the troops were already in the Peninsula.
Damn this was amazingly well written and animated.
When it comes to Italy I always remember a phrase I found ages ago in some history book I barely remember. "Lions lead by donkeys". The Italians were quite brave and effective. Some forces like the Alpini among them were perhaps some of the most elite military units in the world at the time. But...
Well take the invasion of Greece. The diplomatic corps didn't even know there was going to be an Invasion until the day that the ultimatum was sent to their offices. The Italian soldiers in Albania, who would provide the main thrust for the effort were under supplied, busy suppressing rebels in Albania, and had all of 2 weeks to somehow try to fix both of those an prepare an invasion of Greece based on the orders given to them out of nowhere.
Expecting victory out of situations like that is just... insane really. Being defeated when you were set up for defeat that hard is entirely understandable. It doesn't matter how brave or well trained you are when you have lacking supplies and a barely scrawled out plan.
This sounds similar to the disastrous attempt by Russia to capture Kyiv in the current Ukraine war. Soldiers stationed at Belarus had no idea an invasion was coming. Their officers woke them up early in the morning, and just told them to drive into Ukraine.
Mussolini literally gave Badoglio 3 days to prepare an invasion of France and 10 days to prepare an invasion of Greece. The Italians only had 6 divisions without any kind of support and were ordered to march into a country and annex it. Not to mention the fact that Greece was absolutely ready for war, had British help and a country that's all mountains.
And u don't know that when they were sent to Russia, mussolini told to alpini that they Will have fought in the Mountains (wich they are specialized in) and then when they arrive in Russia where totally afraid to aknowledge that the territory pf russia in their Sector had no Mountains but only infinite plains wich Is problematic because u had not natural points to defend the position
My grandfather was a member of the Alpini during WW2, fought few kilometers north-west of Stalingrad, on the river Don. Of the romanian, german, hungarian and italian troops fighting there to protect Stalingrad's left flank from the Russian's encircling, the Alpini were the only unit which didn't give an inch of land to the Russians, even though they were fighting 1 against 20. They eventually had to leave their positions and retreat to avoid being surrounded by the russians who had plowed through all the other sectors.
A russian report sent to Stalin by the commanding officers to announce the retaking of Stalingrad stated that "of all the Axis forces who fought on Russian soil, only the Alpini can claim to have come out undefeated".
To make it worse Musolini and his high command had no idea how to conduct mountain warfare which is what would be necessary for the invasion of Greece. This would prove critical since the inability of the Italians to build proper supply lines,and their common mistakes of advancing in disadvantageous positions would prove critical for the Greeks to beat them for 6 months despite being outnumbered, having inferior equipment,armor and air Support.
This is a great video, thank you for your work!
I would like to add that people overlook the sheer inefficiency of fascist system, in which things were done for the show rather than for the function. Mussolini`s Italy held a lot of military parades and surely flexed their muscle at every opportunity, looking aggressive and scary - but after the war actually begun, all the deficiencies that were swept under the rug came out simultaneously.
Fantastic animation.
Switching sides to the Allies is the most competent thing WWII Italy did.
The Lion King of the Hyenas and Scar reference is brilliant so on point
Being in the Italian army must have sucked. Like, Germany and Japan were fighting to establish empires that were supposed to last thousands of years and everyone else was fighting to stop it. Extremely high stakes on both sides. Italy sort of just tagged along hoping to expand a little and maybe get a colony or two. They were fighting for the loot, essentially. It's a lot harder to give your all when the stakes are so low. It's like if you had an NFL team with a bunch of dudes playing for huge contracts, trying to make the super bowl, except you have one guy who is paid $2,000 for the season and won't get a ring if they win. You can't expect that dude to give their all like everyone else on the team.
I understand what you are trying to say. However the soldier fights hard because he is a soldier and to protect his buddies. The football player plays hard because that’s who he is. Pride and love makes all the difference. So the football player who makes less money plays with professionalism for the love of the game. The holdout who makes the most money is often the one who needs more coaching resources and often fails completely without them. So in your example, the guy not respected or accepted by the team, also the poorly fed or equipped may be poorly motivated
@@Greg-yu4ij except that the opposite of that is true in real life. The football player who is mad about a bad contract contract will definitely play worse, and a player who is playing for a new big contract will play harder. It's a well documented phenomenon in sports and throughout life. Individual Italian soldiers might fight hard for their buddies next to him, but not for the glory of helping create the Third Reich or anything like that. People aren't robots, they know the situations and will act accordingly.
Mussolini had much of the same ambitions, he wanted to recreate a new Roman Empire, with him as it’s Caesar
Incredible how Americans can only relate to NFL in trying (and failing) to comprehend and related to the grand strategy of an entire ocuntry. Sad!
@@kingjohan1335 yeah, but I think we can all agree much of the historical Roman empire wasn't as valuable as it was back in antiquity. Hitler would probably have given him Greece and the Baltic states and some land here and there, but he wasn't getting France or Spain or anything in Europe unless he wanted to go to war with Germany over it, because this is all under the assumption that the axis wins WWII and Hitler controls pretty much all of Europe. As long as Germany wins and Mussolini remains Hitler's lap dog then Mussolini can call himself whatever he wants.