Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
The Power of the Old Ones Unleashed - Seraphon Lore
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 05. 2021
- **Click here to explore the Treacherous Traps! bit.ly/3clhtzw **
Follow me in other fun places!
Twitter: / tough_up
Facebook: / twoplustough
Instagram: / 2uptough
Discord: / discord
Music:
"Virtutes Instrumenti"
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
#AgeofSigmar #Warhammer #GamesWorkshop
As an old Lizardmen player (but not a HUGE lore junky at that time) I understood 'The Great Plan' to be something The Old Ones had laid out for the Lizardmen to fulfill, but details of the plan where lost over time (they where written on golden tablets which other races for some reason loved to steal) and so it was always this struggle for the Slann who's job it was to sort of puzzle out and enact the plan while not... 100% knowing all the details and constantly losing more as time went on.
So basically 'The Great Plan' is less a plan the Slann cooked up that they are all in on and all agreed to as a collective unit and more like a religious edict that's been so muddled that no one is really sure how it works anymore and so the reason the Slann don't always work together as a team is that... Well they don't know if they are even meant to do that and since each had some aspect of the plan they needed to work on anyway, they just sort of mostly stuck to trying there best to do their individual parts and hoped if everyone did what they where meant to well enough, that it would all work out in the end.
I guess the best way of thinking of it is like... Imagine the boss of a company who's workers where all HYPER loyal and followed his instructions to the letter said, "Okay I have a plan that will save the world and make us all rich! All each of the department heads has to do is take the files I have sent them and do EXACTLY what they say with no deviation and everything will be great!" And then he handed out all of the files and then died... And all the files had pages missing... And the various department heads where never really shown how to work together since the idea was always that they should be working independently and the boss would handle all of the logistical work to take everything each department did and put it all to use appropriately. So now whenever the department heads meet up, they all just look at one another nervously, repeatedly asking, "So... If the boss was here, what do you think he would do?"
That's basically The Great Plan and the Lizardmen in Warhammer Fantasy. That, plus hating Chaos and getting constantly BIG MAD at how other people kept stealing there holy design documents.
Don't they remember the end goal?
@@ThunderstruckElectronix probably not all the same way.
@@ThunderstruckElectronix None of the Slann that communicated with and communicated with the Old Ones were alive to know it.
I don't know about old world lore but the great plan feels quite close to The Golden Path from the Dune series, where Leto II foresees one single course of action where humanity doesn't collapse and proceeds to follow it. Its a path that spans millenias
I really wish the Seraphon were written to work with the other Order factions/races a bit more. They didn't really do that as Lizardmen, but that's because everyone was so damn separated and Lustria was the ~exotic dark continent~ the Lizardmen defended fiercely. The Great Plan's hardest details have always been "lost to time" but it's generally regarded as being the way to finally defeat Chaos.
Great video, Doug - nice to see Seraphon getting some airtime.
I think others have already pretty much covered what I remember of the Great Plan from Old World lore. The Old Ones were dying out so they left each temple city a copy of the plan inscribed on golden plaques. They covered things like the battle against Chaos, the rise of mankind, the Lumineth Realm-lords getting multiple battletomes in one year, that kind of stuff...
Trouble is, over time some temple cities were destroyed and others were looted by the lesser races so no single Slann had the full picture. They sent their armies out to recover as many of the plaques as they could but each ended up with their own interpretation of the plan.
Heck yeah, a Seraphon video! Always love it when my faction gets some time in the spotlight
Hello Doug,
I am a fan of the Lizardmen and still have my 8th edition armybook. I am not an expert on Warhammer Lore. This is just me sharing what is in an older book.
The Great Plan is complex, mysterious, and ultimately unknowable.
The Old Ones were a near-omnipotent race of god-like beings who had built an empire throughout stars and time. To them astrology, astromancy, science and magic were all the same. They discovered the World that Was and saw a boundless potential. They would make this world a central location for their plans. Before they could enact this plan, they had to reshape and nurture it.
To act as ‘grand vizier’s’ of the world, the Old Ones created the Slann. The Slann were the only ones who could interact with the Old Ones and comprehend their teachings.
Within the book it does say that the Old Ones did help shape some races into the ones we know today and other races that were “incompatible” with the plan.
While the Old Ones traveled from their polar gateways, they created more spawning of Slann to execute their plans by giving instructions. Such as were to build structures across the globe. These would interact with the World that Was’s ‘Geomantic Web’; which allowed to the Old Ones and Slann to draw upon a reservoir of energy to manipulate untold devices and great power.
When the Polar Gates collapsed, and Chaos invaded the Old Ones disappeared. Their fate completely unknown. The Slann tried to contain the collapse of the polar gates which was so difficult that half of them were killed in the process. At the end of the Great Catastrophe all of the first generation of Slann were dead, which were the only ones who had direct contact with the Old Ones.
What did survive the Great Catastrophe was only to be lost to time. From stone-chiseled writings, lost temples, and it even says that the Slann have forgotten much from that age, their memories growing dim. With the passage of time the Slann who survived into Age of Sigmar know nothing about the great plan and can only interpret missing or incorrect information. The Seraphon only have a few small pieces to a large puzzle which they did not know the whole picture.
The only details about the Great Plan are, the World that Was would be a location of importance within the larger plans of the cosmic empire of the Old Ones, it is probable that the Old Ones created the races from the World that Was to fight Chaos, the Old Ones used Realm Gates to travel across their cosmic empire, the Old Ones built reservoirs of powerful energies and their designs were in complete opposition with Chaos.
I hope this helps with some lore.
I really enjoy your videos!
Lizardmen were my first ever warhammer army of any warhammer system and I read every word of the old codex, I was 11 and I couldn't get enough, brought it absolutely everywhere with me and re read my fave bits.
The great plan isn't a plan by the Slaan but by the Old Ones. The Great Plan was gifted to the slaan in the form of many plaques. The Old Ones created the races of the old world and two large portals on the north and south poles that they used to travel to and from the old world ( likely what we now call Realm Gates) . The lizardmen were the first of the old ones creations and were tasked woth enacting The Great Plan. The Pld Ones taught the Slann magic and in turn the Slaan taught the high elves and the elves thought the other races who all were very young while the lizardmen were ancient. Everything was going quite literally to plan until an event known as the Great Catastrophe, during which the Old Ones were absent, Chaos flooded into the world for the first time through the realm gates and destroyed them. The Old Ones could not return and though the lizardmen fought hard and pushed back the demonic incursion many lizardmen cities were lost or destroyed. These cities housed many plaques detailing parts of the great plan. Also the majority of slaan who had been in direct contact with the old ones had been killed or were now in hibernation. The younger Slaan were left to interpret incomplete or broken plaques.
This is why they are sometimes wrong, and why the ones who act on the plan seem to act alone they believe yhey have correctly interpreted their role in the plan.
Woth this knowledge I would guess that the slaan gifted the obelisks to the humans because the plaques told them to do so, possibly not knowing the significance of it but knowing it was an essential part of the great plan.
Old vid to comment on I know but née seraphon announcements got me excited and I wanted to talk lore lol
From what I can tell is that the great plan had something to do with the old ones, a type of alien race. They created the lizardmen in the old world along with elves and humans. We don't know much about the great plan because the slann don't really understand the great plan. In fact the slann often debated how to carry out the great plan. Hope that helps
I still think Kroak knew about what Belakor was planning. He just made a sacrifice play; sacrificing Chamon to prevent the Eater of Tomes from causing even more problems.
With all that's happened Belakor has potentially become a major rival to Archaon.
And knowing Chaos, they'll be too busy falling on one another like wolves to focus on anything else. By the end, they'll be helpless against the Seraphon, who'll have gotten out with the least possible casualties.
We need Old Oness inspired endless spells, change my mind
That Saurus wielding a magic staff at the beginning looks amazing. Wish there were more Saurus spellcasters.
Welp it impossible, mainly due to lore constraints as there specifically made to be warriors
That's not a magic staff thats a magic spear
@@NWLR-tv Yea, they are designed to be warriors and currently that means no magic. But that said magic warriors are a thing in media so it would be cool if someday we got a Saurus who leans into both. Maybe a singular named character rather than a unit though. Like an Oldblood who was exposed to massive amounts of the realmstone of Hysh and got their mind expanded to the point of better understanding and tapping the astromatrix to cast more combat/physical oriented spells.
@@marth354 closest thing to that is chakax or Kroq-gar as there warriors with magic artifacts that magic them quasi magical, and I don't know if they'd be affected by realmstone that way seeing as a skink character was in the realms of chaos and came out after years unscathed and uncorrupted
That's Kroq-Gar. He's no wizard, but what you're seeing in his hand is a relic called the Spear of Tlanxla
@@TheLagiacrus1 and his golden arm is also a relic known as (if I remember this correctly) hand of the gods
After an incredibly rough week, a double dose of 2 plus is exactly what I needed. Thank you so much Doug! Time for a little escape from reality 🤣
Did you say... telepathic gathering? You mean like, virtual meeting? Now I cant get the image out of my head of a bunch of magical star toads trying to figure out a Zoom call 😆. I'm sorry my brain is mush from a year of online school I find this so funny.
I’d like to add, I think the lore snippet means that the Slann don’t usually meet each other. Back in WHF, they were always in contact telepathically and made most or their moves on the other side of the world. That was also because they were cursed by Tzeentch with an unending torpore; when they woke up, they could communicate way less between themselves, since they were less concentraded. In AoS the curse of Tzeentch has been lifted, so they probably are much more independent and communicate a bit less, but I still think they communicate telepathically. For example, it’s implied that Olhupec, the Coalesced Slann guarding Tepok’s Eye, would have had the means to warn all the other Slanns of the Eye’s prophecies and that’s why Be’lakor destroyed it before going after the Eater of Tomes’ Silver Tower.
Besides, each Slann interprets the Great Plan differently and often argue among themselves on the small details (which are often all they have to go by, scattered across aeons and jeopardised by the constant corruption of Chaos). That is why Kroak is so revered: he knew the Old Ones personally and, while they certainly didn’t explain their absurd schemes to him in full, he’s privy to secrets and insights like litterally no one else in the Cosmos. Sadly, Kroak isn’t the best in communication, being dead, but hey.
Die hard seraphon/ lizardmen fanboy here,
The great plan in the old world was concrete the problem is that parts of it have been lost during time(it was written in a series of stone plaques and the parts that remain are interpreted by each slann in a different way.
That’s why most slann don’t work together they all have a common goal but each of then think they have a different role, or path or whatever in the plan.
The great plan rarely works as well oiled machine but when it does literally nobody stands a chance of stopping it.
That was the way it was presented in the old world. In my opinon it must work similarly in AOS, each constellation working it own way protecting q specific zone, making alliances with the other races or striking at specific targets.
All of them working in their own interpretation/ position of the great pla
Except that constellation who got downed and crash landed in Ghur, those scaly boys are not helping any more
From what I remember in the old world the slann would sometime interpret the great plan differently which was a reason for lizardmen Vs lizardmen fights
Irrc the issue with the great plan is, that all Slann interpret it slightly different way
Yep; it’s in the Battletome, there have been full-on battles between Slaan and their forces over “subtle differences” in their interpretations of the Old Ones’ Great Plan
The great plan was never given concretely in the lore. It was a cohesive plan that all lizardmen were working together with the old ones on but when chaos exploaded from the poles and ruined everything the great plan was kinda lost. The Slann hold some vague memories of the great plan, but they all have different memories of it and interpret it differently and I believe there are physical fragments written down scattered around the old world.
So they way I see it, the Slann don't have the whole picture of the great plan and they don't work together often because they disagree on what exactly the great plan is, but also because they likely work on figuring out different parts of the great plan.
I see it kinda like scientific research. A physicist and a biologist both work towards understanding the world but they work independently with only some collaboration. Some Slann might research a certain part of the great plan and they won't gain much from directly collaborating with Slann that work on understanding a completely different part of the great plan, because it's a completely different field.
Loved the Carl Sagan quote!
So basically the Great Plan was a last ditched effort by the Old Ones to guide the Lizardmen after they (the Old Ones) had died, and its end goal is the destruction of Chaos. The way this was communicated to the Lizardmen was that each Temple City received a copy of the Great Plan on a series of Gold Plaques which detailed events that needed to happen or that needed to be stopped. However, following all the wars with Daemons and Skaven as well as the attempts to steal them by humans, Dwarfs, and Elves most of the Plaque sequences of the Cities have become incomplete.
So each Slann are basically working with an instruction manual on how to stop Chaos but they are missing pages and have to piece together the missing information from either context or information another Slann might have. One of the interesting things about this is that it implies that the Old Ones knew that the planet might die and the Realms would be created, so they created contingencies for such an eventuality.
The great plan is so large and reaches so far into the future that events like the necroquake are so small that they seem like a small blip on the slanns reader and the slann simply don’t care.
The great plan was left by the old ones in their language. The first brood could read it if I remember correctly but all died/were killed. The only second spawning slann around is lord Kroak and he can't even read it. So they are sorta interpreting and going with what they can as the pick out certain events
Lord Kroak is a first-gen Slann. In fact, he actually was the first Slann spawned in the Warhammer Fantasy world. That age and power is what allowed him to persist after death in the first place. That, and how determined he was to not let Chaos destroy the world during the Great Catastrophe
Great questions! I guess if Nagash came across objects of extreme magical significance in the realm of death, he would have dissected it long ago, so the Seraphon wouldn't have been able to intervene in the Necroquake 🤔
They probably built them everywhere. As a wise man once said, "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS"
Like most have said, the Great Plan isn't the Slann's plan, it is the Old Ones', they just have to interpret prophecies and signs to try to figure out what they wanted. They aren't perfect at that, and Slann often disagree. You said they aren't vulnerable to ego but they actually are and sometimes their interpretations are mutually exclusive.
And I do think Kroak had an idea of what Belakor was going to do but deemed it necessary, he still told Gardus where he needed to be to stop Belakor.
The word I think you are looking for is Omniscient, not Omnipotent.
2+! The seraphon pulled a Doc Strange on the black pyramid. 14m outcomes only one involves Rats. Lol
My headcanon is that the Coalesced are led by those Slaan and other Seraphon who realize that they do not know enough about the Great Plan wrt the Mortal Realms. They are in the Mortal Realms in order to uncover clues as to what the Old Ones had Planned for the Realms, like...Maya archaeologist lizard men
Slann are accomplishing the Great Plan,
The end goal, for every lizard, is the true Aztec space lizard realm(s).
Because every other race in the setting will upset them in some way,
Hell,even Gotrek inadvertently ended up killing Sotek
In the old world. It was the old ones great plan and the slann were their closest servants. When chaos came and drove away the old ones all the first generation of slann that had actually met the old ones died and much of the plan was lost so the remaining slann were trying to work it out. A large part of the rarity of communication was our perspective of time. Slann live so long that their view on time and frequency is very different. Add to this that they debate the true interpretation of what they still have of the plan and any action they take seemed very slow to other races and the players.
They didn’t intervene with Nagash building his pyramid because it was meant to happen. It’s a fixed point in the plan and why Nagash keeps making the same mistake. It kind of runs like this: a world is created, godbeasts kill each other making way for lesser beings, chaos asserts itself in the world uniting the races against them, Nagash does his thing fragmenting alliances, everyone kicks off etc. There is something about Nagash breaking the alliances that is important to the great plan. It’s like Nagash heralds the start of the great plan and everything that comes before it just sets the stage.
I suppose Nagash staying true to his word would make the Alliance an openly dangerous threat. Meaning Chaos would have to actually be competent and stop playing around to actually beat them. A fractured Alliance means Chaos will get arrogant and complacent, that's when the Slann choose to strike.
The great plan was something that needed interpreting. It was essentially a religious Thing that they themselves do not fully grasp.
They believe they need to try their best to find out what the Old Ones wanted exactly, but they aren't 100% sure what that is.
The only things they know for sure is that as far as the old ones are concerned: "Chaos Bad!"
So my thoughts on the Obelisks is that they are likely there to protect and manage a node of the Astralmatix. The human tribe that lived there was probably seen as worthy of becoming the site's caretakers. So when the Daemonic and Gheist hordes descended on the area the Slann simply made use of the very thing that they were seeking to protect.
And the Thunder Lizard at least still have such mastery of teleportation that they can travel between their cities in such manner.
My seraphon army lore is that if is lead by a skink oracle who had lost belief in the slann at it has lived a long life and watched countless of it's brethren be sacrificed by the slann to try and reach the goal which never comes to fruition.
She's decided it's time to take matters into her own hands 🤣🤣
I love it. Skinks are the best of the lizard boys and girls we need more love for them. Forget those rasin-looking frog blobs the skinks are in charge now
yes, finally some seraphon lore.
The great plan in the old world was first and foremost to foster races that could combat Chaos. After the polars gates imploded and Chaos came into the world aka the great catastrophy, the old ones disappeared and the first generation of Slaan (Kroak is one), who had direct contact to the old ones, also died.
After the great vortex was created by the High Elves after centuries of battle, the lizardmen were in a bad shape. They had taken the brunt of the attack and held the line, so they retreated into the jungles of lustria and the southlands. This sadly also meant that existing knowledge about the great plan got lost during the ages due to the destruction. The second generation slaan( mazdamundi is one), third, fourth and fifth generation slaan did not have direct contact with the old ones, so their interpretation of the great plan is down to plaques found in temple citys. The problem is that many of the plaques describing the plan either got destroyed or lost, so it is one giant jicksaw puzzle for the existing slaan to find out, which leads to different ways of interpretation. This is also why the slaan failed to predict the rise of Sotek, the serpent god
The simple short of it. No. The Slann were very very far removed from the normal workings of the Lizardmen. They'd meditate for centuries and only act when they had clear writing from a sacred plaque or an artifact was stolen.
Right before the End Times a new plaque was found and Mazdumundi read it. He announced that all creatures not part of the great plan needed to be eliminated before the Great Plan can be even started.
The slann did not communicate in the traditional sense. But I believe that they have a inherent telepathetic connection to each other. So they always kinda know what other slaans are doing or where they are. Atleast within a certain range. But the great plan itself was not well defined and even the slaan were trying to figure it out. When chaos came and fucked shit up then Lord Mazdamundi realized that the great plan was to stop chaos. But its his interpretation. who knows what the actual plan was.
Orks have Waaagh! What is Seraphon’s war cry?
I’d say the Slann placed the totems on lay lines and the tribes that lived there then probably worshipped the Slann and protected them.
Fantastic! Thanks a ton dude :D
In fantasy all the temple cities had theire own tablets telling about prophecies and such which would happen, but they didn't even know the first step of this plan till the end times where they figured the first step was to kill all non essential species to the great plan (orcs, beastmen, and of course Skaven) basically it was impossible because skaven are infinite orcs responsibility endlessly and the beastmen are seemingly infinite despite the fact they get genocides endlessly
While I don't know alot about them that was one thing I found about jarring about the lizard men they had such unbelievable power but yet all these terrible things happened. Like yes scaven had terrible technology but from their very nature they are manipulative and untrustworthy
Back in the world that was the great plan was written down on plagues which were kept in the temple cities each city had many plagues so the slann would count how many cities had one type of plague and the ones most cities had would be considered the will of the old ones except in certain cases such as the prophecy of sotek but they only had told of the world that was so that may not be true anymore also back then each city had multiple slann and they also would take trips to the other cities to talk about the great plan
No and yes with the great plan. The great plan was literally written in all their temples and the very stars.... chaos fucked it all over.
If your magic texts can only be read under certain stars and moons.... a chaos moon that has random cycles it kind fucks it all up.
Slann had to begin guessing at the great plan in some cases
Dude there is a youtuber called loremaster of sotek go check him out he loves talking about lizardmen
When it comes to Starborne vs Coalesced relationship. All Seraphon are connected in the Great plan, albeit some see different ways of achieving the goal, In this instance for example their views intertwined. Starborne however, as stated in the battletome, are creatures of flesh and blood albeit infused with Azyr magic. So no magic dream demons here, flesh and blood infused with magic and birthed from spawning pools. Coalesced when they do so, loses some of that magic, and starts drawing upon the powers of the realm they settle in. They're not as far removed as you might think. So I don't think there is some sort of beef there.
If you evern want to do some talks on the Seraphon and Fyreslayer lore specifcally, I'd love to help.
Seraphon feel similar to the tau
Lizard men!
.
FIRST
I think the Slans shitty planning is just shitty writing.