Over-Analyzing The Iconic Duel in Princess Bride: How Accurate is It?
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2019
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Have you ever wondered what Inigo Montoya and Westley chatter about while dueling with swords? What is Bonetti's Defense? Does Thibault really cancel out Capo Ferro? And how realistic is the fighting overall?
You'll find out in this video.
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Yes, you caught me... Should have said Thibault's treatise was *published* in 1630. He did not write it after his death...
Although that would be pretty badass. Imagine you're so dedicated to the art of fencing that you become a lich just to finish your work.
"Blegh... must... get... published..." XD
Skall, the Warhammer Fantasy game has an entire subgroup of vampires that utilize no traditional vampire powers, they became undead so they could continue to practice the sword for centuries. In game, they are formidable opponents.
@@RaspK Said every academic ever... 😄
Can you do a vid on "The duelists"?
One of the most classic brazillian books is the Posthumous memories of Bras Cubas, which is a book written entirely in the afterlife by the fictional author.
I think people miss the point of those types of videos. It's not "let's tear this movie a new one" so much as it is "let's use this movie as a starting point to talk about real historical fighting",
Common sense? On the internet? On CZcams? Bollocks
Camsterdam especially by CZcams
My karate master used to do that sometimes. Like how in Karate Kid the moves were legit but the fighting choreography was too much Hollywood
@@camsterdam3896 In this Economy?
Yeah Neil deGrasse Tyson gets a lot of hate for doing the same with science in sci-fi movies!
Am I the only one who thinks the whole “Bonetti/Capo Ferro” dialogue sounds like two chess players talking smack during a game in the park?
pretty much how i took it.
Fencing = chess + ballet (at its best)
Speaking of which, are those real sword-fighting techniques
@@sadlobster1 Did you watch the video, or do you just come here to read the comments?
@@johnhodges2760 The comment was made before I reached the point of the video where he discussed those particular swordplay styles, sorry
I always thought of this fight scene as "good fun" between the characters. But, thinking on it further, Wesley was probably already looking for the next Dread-Pirate Roberts because he knew he would retire once he rescued Buttercup. Wesley likely instantly recognized traits in Inigo that made Wesley consider Inigo a viable replacement, so this whole fight was more like an interview 😂
interesting
You have created a fan theory I like.
Remember that Inigo and Westley have instantly recognized a kindred spirit. This is more of an exhibition duel than actual combat, as evidenced by the constant banter during the duel.
In universe it's two masters of their craft recognizing just how rare an opprotunity this was, not wanting ot actually *kill* someone who is by all demonstrations an honorable soul, and in Weasley's case as another commentor pointed out... this was probably him interviewing a canddiate to take over the Dread Pirate Roberts mantle once he retired with Buttercup.
I think this can explain why Westley was playing so defensively at the beginning, and why they did a few goofy moves-neither one really wanted to kill the other, and they both knew it.
@@singletona082 as someone who cant afford a continued subscription to a fencing or hema club, can confirm, rare opportunity lolz
Book version: “They touched swords, and the man in black immediately began the Agrippa defence, which Inigo felt was sound, considering the rocky terrain, for the Agrippa kept the feet stationary at first, and made the chances of slipping minimal. Naturally, he countered with Capo Ferro, which surprised the man in black, but he defended well, quickly shifting out of Agrippa and taking the attack himself, using the principles of Thibault.
Inigo had to smile. No one had taken the attack against him in so long, and it was thrilling! He let the man in black advance, let him build up courage, retreating gracefully between some trees, letting his Bonetti defence keep him safe from harm.”
Goldman was a HEMA nerd before it really existed as we know it.
If only he had chosen a name he could write for Íñigo...
Thanks for this. I was going to say that the main reason they name-dropped all those things in the movie is because they were in the book. Evidently William Goldman was big into fencing. I'm pretty sure he wrote the screenplay for the movie, as well as the original novel which, for those who have never read it, is a bit different from the movie (especially the Zoo of Death vs. Pit of Despair), but just as fantastic in its own right.
The name is fine ;)
I want to know more about the historicity of the Scottish master Inigo used to finish his duel with the Six-Fingered Man 😬
I dunno about accuracy, but the whole point of the fight was that both parties were deliberately prolonging it for the fun of having an opponent on their level, something neither had experienced in years. Even in-universe it wasn't a proper fight for the most part, just the two of them showing off.
Yeah the book straight up says so, but the movie depicts it pretty well. They've clearly both killed most of their opponents very easily, and are absolutely delighted by each others' skills.
I 100% agree with this.
Yep. It's more about the interaction between the two than the two trying to kill each others.
Inigo: "kill me quickly"
Wesley: "I would as soon destroy a stained glass window as an artist like yourself. However, since I cant have you following me either" *Wesley knocks Inigo out*
Wesley: "Please understand I hold you in the highest respect"
To be fair when Inigo is lashing around with the rapier at the end he had lost his cool and was wildly swinging because he knew he was going to lose.
doubtless thinking about that it would mean he had failed his father and would never avenge him.
Yeah I was gonna say the same thing as well as when he says that Westley was a master so he should be able to dominate inigo Is proven wrong in the book since it says that they are both wizards - "the best of the best"
And his right arm was getting tired from using the rapier, wherefore he started using both.
@@Don-Scrima Maybe he should have tried using his left hand for a while. 😀
“ I’d sooner break a stainglass window then kill an artist such as yourself, but since I can’t exactly have you follow me though...”
(Knocks him out.)
“... please understand, I hold you in the highest of regards.”
These scenes took months of work to learn. In addition to their own parts, they had to learn the other actor's parts as well so they knew what was coming and would have a better chance of avoiding injury while conveying a more realistic duel. Saw a recent interview Cary gave and he talks about the hours and hours of work that he and Mandy put into the fight. Quite impressive for two actors who had not done it before. It was an amazing sequence.
That's how you make good fight scenes : practice. And lots of it. Oh, and stable camera angles. More practiced fights mean less camera tricks/cuts are needed.
And that basically why fights scenes in movies like The Raid, John Wick, and many Kung Fu movies look so good. While Hollywood fight scenes are dark shaky messes that don't feel real at all.
Cool little analysis, as I didn't know who any of those fencing masters (and, er, mathematician) were.
But I think you were looking for the wrong things in what they were saying.
It wasn't techno-babble. It was 'in jokes', which I only just got today, 32 years later, and I couldn't stop giggling!
"You are using [Rocko] Bonetti's defence against me eh?"
"I thought if fitting considering the [rocky] terrain."
Genius!
Then Cappo Ferro's 'straight line' form of attacking.
"I find Thibault ['s lots of angles] cancels out Cappo Ferro."
"Unless your enemy has studied his Agrippa [mathematics of angles], which I have!"
Again, genius!
I think you're right, the fighting was just an excuse for the repartee; which is brilliant
I was going to say that you may be looking a little too hard for something there, but that would be one hell of a coincidence. I choose to believe you are correct, further cementing this movie as the best of all time (at least to my mind).
You just completely blew my mind.
Never noticed that! I think you’re correct ⚔️
I never even considered the words themselves in that context! I just knew that they were referring to people that actually existed and were fending masters. Still, I always loved this scene, even the ridic ending when Inigo is two-handing his rapier, which is about the least rapier thing you could possibly do!
Cary Elwes' book "As you wish" has a substantial section about the trainers and training for this scene. He also reveals that he'd been a bit of a silly boy on a Quad bike during the shoot for another scene and did something extremely nasty to his ankle, which makes his mobility in this scene more impressive than it may seem. He was hobbling most of the time the cameras weren't rolling.
He also reveals that both he and Mandy turned up for training, claiming to have never done any sword-fighting action before... then it turned they'd both been taking a few covert lessons in the basics. Competitive thespians, eh?
Its hilarious how in character both of them were off-set. And damn I didn’t know Cary had messed up his entire ankle! I only found out today his toe was broken In this scene! That’s some damn impressive mobility in general, let alone with a messed up foot!
And then there was the take where he told Christopher Guest to actually bop him with the sword to make his reaction realistic, and got knocked out. He woke up in the hospital in full costume with the same doc who worked on his broken toe saying “Take it easy there, Zorro” XD
Can’t imagine a better Westley given his shenanigans lmao.
Also can we appreciate how fucking on-point Mandy Patinkin’s acting was the whole time? Like, when he was stabbed and even though the fake blood looked like ketchup, his reaction sold it so well. I just love that.
To be fair, Inigo's flailing at the end is supposed to be a sign that he's pretty much given up on being fancy, and is just relying on desperation at that point. He knows he's pretty much lost, but is hoping that "something" works. Every trick, every strategy, every technique has proven pointless against the mysterious "Roberts of Loxley," and before he dies, he's just hoping to at least land some sort of knick or cut on the masked figure.
At least, that's my guess as to why he's flailing like that.
I casually watch skall, love this movie. i always felt the same, at that moment he knew he was done. And in desperation was hoping(praying) to land something.
You can see it in modern fighting, do something dumb and desperate and catch the opponent off guard.
Was that a men in tights reference?
I do actual fencing, and can confirm that wildly flailing does mostly only happen when panicked
I can confirm as well that when tired, form often goes out the window. Wild swings and crappy bent arm thrusts often sneak in when tired. Same with the "oh s*&t" parries.
"Kill illegal forest to pig wild in it a is!"
Big credit to Bob Anderson who choreographed this movie
He also played Darth Vader in the lightsabre fight in Empire Strikes Back. If only he could teach Mark Hamill not to swing his around like a baseball bat.
@@fattiger6957 To be fair, the only time he swings it like a baseball bat is during the Sailbarge battle, at which point finesse is kind of pointless in a close quarters fight with people who have blasters. In both cases where Luke fights Vader, he actually shows a great deal of control and by RotJ, even outright skill with his weapon. Obviously a reflection of his training with Anderson.
@@Tracer_Krieg There's also the fact that Mark is playing a farmboy with minimal training, and that it reflects in his movements and behavior is actually very realistic.
And it is a lightsaber. So edgeallignment and stuff doesn't matter. As long as you hit, it is fine.
Didnt Bob Anderson do the choreography for the swordplay in Curse of the Black Pearl? The name sounds awfully familiar.
As a fencer who was taught back in the 80's in the classical Italian School by an actual Fencing Master, it was actually pretty amazing to see this fight on the big screen and actually hear the names of the real masters.
I think the thing at the end with Inigo using his sword in both hands was meant to be a desperation attack. He knew he was outmatched and was hoping to simply overpower the Man in Black. Thats why shorty after that attack the fight ends with Inigo asking to be killed quickly.
The reason I love this fight scene in this movie so much, is that Wesley actually really likes Indigo a hell of a lot after they meet at the top of the cliff. He's not really trying to kill him in this fight. He's testing Indigo's skill here, and waiting for an opportunity to "end him gently for the moment" so that he can continue on his journey. Parody though it may be, I adore the loving sentiment and emotion displayed to perfection throughout this entire film. Thank you so much for this video, Skallagrim!!
Kristin R Adams A loving sentiment, though i feel i should point out the man's name had no 'd' in it. No judging here though, i called him Indigo for like years. XD I agree wholeheartedly otherwise, though.
@@valcliffb8558 probably autocorrect.
Yeah, the entire vibe of the fight is that they're not actually trying to kill each other, they're basically just sparring for honor and for the joy of fencing another master. It's why they both start off left handed, too. Inigo was basically just trying to delay him, and he succeeded, though he did get a nasty bonk on the head as a result.
Inigo's flailing at the end is exactly that, he's basically all but defeated and just trying anything to see if it works so he could land a hit, but it's not happening, and the Man in Black wins a few seconds later.
"Killing you would be like destroying a great work of art." The admiration and respect which flows between Inigo and Wesley is as charming as the banter. Yes, more like Masters sparring than a serious duel, but they were testing each other's mettle. I would not have liked to see either duellist die, so props to Mr Goldman!
"You killed my ad revenue, prepare to watch"
... *looks at my adblock* I mean... you're not wrong...
I always turn my adblock off when watching Skallagrim, he needs the revenue and deserves it.
don't worry, the video is demonetized anyway. you're adblocker is redundant.
@@iamzid Thing is I use it everywhere and constantly forget about it :^)
I use ad blockers because there's never any option to change the quality and it's always at 1080p or 720p.
I've only got 50G worth of data for my internet.
Ads add up.
iamzid Does demonetization hit Premium too? Or only ads?
I always imagined this was the viewer watching the story through the child's eyes who was hearing the story from his grandfather. So any physical movements we saw were a child's interpretation of the story.
I always assumed "Bonetti's Defence" was an in joke, since Bonetti's defence must've failed him in his final bout.
Mike Stanmore Someone else noticed the joke on his name. “Rocko Bonetti” - “Suitable for the rocky terrain”
I remember when I first got into an “live fencing” group using a blunted, “true” rapier with rubbered tip like skallgrim has there. I had done kendo and kenjutsu for years and was quite confident in my abilities when the guy coaching me lunged, popped me right on the face mask and returned to guard before I even registered it. Granted he was a national champion but damn I wasn’t expecting the speed and lack of Telegraph.
"The 90s are not 10 years ago anymore" fuuuuuuk!!! Blew my mind!! He is right!!! When did the time passed so fast????
Yep, us old timers feeling old.
Hell it's about to be 20 years ago...
@@bdkj3e the 90s *ended* 20 years ago, it began *30 years* ago!
@@PyrusFlameborn Shhhhiiiiitttttt, it's even worse than I initially thought.
Same. here........shit!!!!!!!!
I like the first part of the fight where they both kinda test each with a little swing near the head. You can see Inigo’s face light up cause he knows he found a decent opponent.
I've always perceived that last "ham-fisted" scene as an outright act of frustration... But also considered it as a potential attempt to bludgeningly overpower an opponent's parries or whatnot. As if it were a last resort type attempt.
Yes - it's clearly the point at which Inigo realizes he's lost and rather than screaming epithets, swings his sword like a crazy man in obvious frustration. I think it's done every well.
As a frenchman, I must say that your pronunciation of « Gérard Thibault d’Anvers » is absolutely flawless !
as a dutchman ....I dont get it ..
@@marcuszc3172 xD HA! ^^
Gerardo Tibalto de Amberes.
@@marcuszc3172 "Gerarke" is/lived from/in Aaantwaaarpe ? ... Antwerp(en) ... Zuidelijke Nederlanden - Brabant ... ?
@@Naucano gerardje uit antwerpen volstaat dan toch ... al dat frans :-/
How realistic is the Indiana Jones VS Swordsman fight?
110%
That wasn't how the fight was written, originally he was supposed to beat the guy with his whip in a long drawn out fight but Harrison Ford said it was more in character to just shoot him.
@@matg919 not to mention he was sick (with the flu I think) that day on set and just wanted to fuck off
@@matg919 and sword man who played along
Gun vs sword gun wins
Tale as old as... well gun
"a cut every two seconds"
You're being generous there.
Very generous, it's to the point where if there *IS* 2 whole seconds without a cut... I'm relieved.... sad.... but true.
This movie and honestly that fight scene was what actually got me interested in fencing. It has and will always be a inspiration to me. Both Elwes and Patinkin did an amazing job in the performance.
8:58
He wrote his treatise in 1630? because it says onscreen that he died in 1629. Headcanon? he was a wise-cracking skeleton fencing master who needed no protective gear on account of not having organs.
I noticed that as well, haha. Still, he was close!
Thibault treaties was published after his death. He also was Flemish.
@OffBrandAnon Already putting it into my D&D campaign as a minor antagonist :3 Might proxy it over to my fiction too :D
Yohohoho!
*master fencer skeleton, freshly stabbed through his ribs* : “First of all-“
This dialogue was provided by Bob Anderson, who had years of classical fencing training and study. Keep in mind his training is fencing was before hema came about, but is still in the phase of the epee translations and evolutions from prior small sword and even rapier work. (They may have been passed in name only at that point) so thing's like bonetti's defense and such were names of fencing techniques passed down in the sport fencing world, but typcially weren't tied to historical documents
Nothing against Bob Anderson, since I know nothing about him, but William Goldman published The Princess Bride in 1973, and all of the names in the fencing scene are in the book. How or why Goldman knew them, I cannot begin to speculate, but apparently he knew his fencing treatises.
@@kevingooley9628 thanks! Good to know. Were they in the original? I heard they were not, but added along with other content in releases after the film was released
@@chrisfields8077 yes, my copy predates the film. There are even a couple other names in the book that didn't make the movie. Don't know if they are historical or not, or if Goldman made them up. Maybe Skall would know.
Decided to look up the passage from the book : “They touched swords, and the man in black immediately began the Agrippa defence, which Inigo felt was sound, considering the rocky terrain, for the Agrippa kept the feet stationary at first, and made the chances of slipping minimal. Naturally, he countered with Capo Ferro, which surprised the man in black, but he defended well, quickly shifting out of Agrippa and taking the attack himself, using the principles of Thibault.
Inigo had to smile. No one had taken the attack against him in so long, and it was thrilling! He let the man in black advance, let him build up courage, retreating gracefully between some trees, letting his Bonetti defence keep him safe from harm.”
@@kevingooley9628 it doesnt surprise me that any author would have put time into researching gems of knowledge that they could weave into their books to make them feel more real. It also wouldnt surprise me if an author wrote stories around topics he had great interest in.
Been watching this film for 32 years, and FINALLY the dialogue in this scene makes sense! Thanks for posting!
friendly reminder the cary elwis did this entire scene with a broken toe
Had never heard this :)
Holy shit I forgot about that!!! And they only used stunt doubles for the flipping scene!
Well, it's a parody of swashbuckling swordfights from the Golden Age. So, Talking is a Free Action, and a lot of other Tropes get lampshaded throughout it. When The Man in Black throws his sword, sticks it in the top of a convenient pile of grass, does a horizontal bar routine, and the Wizard (That's Inigo's rank from The Good Parts Version*) just stands there watching? Not very realistic, but funny, and entertaining!
*The Good Parts Version is the only version of the book. Goldman wrote as "Morganstern" and named the fictional countries after the coins of the Normans. (Florin, and Guilder. "Heads... Heads...") In another iconic scene, Inigo meets The Six Fingered Man for the first time, and delivers his famous line to him, for the first time. Only he's not alone, so the Poltroon sends 4 guys to "Kill him."
And the 4th one is dead, before the first has enough time to hit the floor. It says it in the book, and if you watch that scene, they did it in the movie, too! Wizard is the highest rank of swordfighter in this fictional universe. A rank higher than Master, the greatest swordfighter of his age, and The Dread Pirate Westley defeats him with The Power of True Love.
True. The entire sequence is also meant to show just how overly honorable both fighters are. Right off the bat, Inigo vows to let the Man in Black climb to the top of the rope and allow him time enough to recover from his climb to face him in a fair fight. Each fighter letting the other pull off some crazy gymnastic move that doesn't actively threaten them but instead just lets them move to another part of the ruins to continue the fight could be seen as another example of this sense of fairness. Sure, he could stab Wesley the instant he leaps up on the horizontal bar, but it isn't sporting or fair, so he lets him finish and continue the duel afterwards. The entire duel has plenty of examples of the extreme respect each combatant has for the other and just how much the two are enjoying the other's skills. To end such an encounter with so cheap a move would spoil the experience for them.
@@VegetaLF7 Yes, there's also a lot of that, prolonging the fight. Pretty much at every point, one of them could have taken advantage of the other, and gotten in a stab, but they didn't. It's also implied that they each chose to fight left handed to give the other a fighting chance. It's more explicit in the book.
@@Psiberzerker Exactly. Like you said, it is a throwback to the Errol Flynn-era of swashbuckling duels, where the spirit of the duel was more important than the actual moves performed. The whole thing is a big fairy tale, not a historical document.
@@VegetaLF7 Not to mention an adaption of "The Good Parts Version" of a book that was never written by an entirely fictitious author. I just have to point out how awkwardly the Man in Black drew his sword at the beginning, to show that he wasn't left handed. Also, the 6 finger sword has a swept hilt, obviously custom made, for a right hander, and he got a chance to inspect it. It came as no surprise to either of them when the other turned out to not be left handed, and yet they humored each other to see what they could do. It wasn't a duel, it was a first impression.
You fool, no one had heard of the duster style because up until this duel, no one had survived against it.
Kieran Byrne inconceivable.
@@Mitwadus You keep using that word...I don't think it means what you think it means..
What is the duster style
You watched the video right?
@@kiwialamode5031 I did yet I did not find it, where was it mentioned exactly?
"Agrippa might help defend against Ebola"
- CZcams subtitles 2019.
But what if it did?!!!
Worth a shot
Defense against Ebola requires being stuck with a very very very tiny rapier.
@@donjones4719 Or be AntMan .😉
2020 Coronavirus here. Ebola is so 2019.
My favorite bit of trivia for the movie is that both actors memorized the choreography left-handed and right-handed and then memorized the other person's choreography as well, I don't know if they memorized both hands for the other person's choreography as well
My mom: skallagrim? you mean that one dude that spends all his time playing with his sword?
Me: dies of laughter
I love this movie. Rip Andre.
G Terr you want to see something touching watch the actors & crew talk about Andre. I promise you there will be tears
Billy Crystal made a movie as a tribute to Andre. I think it was called My Giant.
The book goes even deeper into this, they definitely had to condense the fencing references for the movie. The author must be a bit of a HEMA nerd
I think the trick to understanding the Princess Bride duel is that for most of it, they were basically giving each other room to show off what they had, sort of applauding each other's artistry. Once both swords were in their better hands, then the banter was over and the fight was finally on. I've seen (and done) a lot of that in cross-style sparring, too. Sometimes, it doesn't matter to either one who "wins," because the joy was in the discovery itself.
It is kinda funny that the princess bride is more well done than some movies today
In my opinion, the best movies need to have a great story told excellently. Great movies need either a great story, told adequately or an adequate story told exceptionally, good movies are more variable; they can have a great story told poorly, a good story told adequately, or a terrible story told quite well. Bad movies have a good or average story told poorly or a lackluster story told adequately or poorly. I would say there is a 5th category of "anomaly" for any movie that can't be nearly categorized. Napoleon Dynamite is the one example that comes to mind, but I think this category would be populated with independent and foreign films.
It's important to remember that some people enjoy the cringe factor and that one is able to like a movie in any category. Probably more words than you wanted...
P.s. I would classify TPB as a great movie.
I think you kinda missed the point on film. They are not books you can have a terrible story and still be an amazing film. Visuals are extremely important. Scenes are important, characters are important, etc. If all that matters is the plot none of the characters (or at least quite a few of them) would not be relatable or complex they would just be plot devices. Princess Bride has a dumb story but it is a comedy so that does not matter. They were not trying to tell a good story they were trying to tell good jokes. And they went above and beyond on that. My comment was more about the fight scenes as it was made in the 80s. I am surprised they did research on fencers and such. There are many films today that don’t, even though we have way more information now.
Cameron didn't say "plot", he said "story". And I would disagree; you can't have a terrible story and still be an amazing film. Talk to any competent novelist or filmmaker and they'll tell you that story does not mean plot. Plot is plot. Story is the combination of plot, character, and the reader/viewer's interaction with both through prose or cinematography and sound. As for The Princess Bride... That was a very well written film. And no, they were not just "trying to tell good jokes". Jeez, even the kid's grandfather explains that in the beginning of the film.
WarGamerGirl Look up plot in a thesaurus the first synonym is story. You do not know what you are talking about and are making shit up to argue. The princess brides “story” is frankly not very interesting on its own all the characters are pretty one dimensional and the plot is basic revenge. Has the same three act structure of any thing else and they save the princess kill the bad guy it’s over. The uniqueness comes from the way it is presented and such not the plot or story.
As a Belgian seeing someone called "d'Anvers" ("from Anvers" in French which is a Belgian town) being called Dutch made me curious but then i remembered that at that time Belgium didn't exist so he technically is Dutch.
with a french(waalse) name to make things more easy for everyone ... :-/
Part of his life, Antwerpen (don't know the english name) was in fact habsburgs. So he may even have been spanish.
But it does sound better to call him Dutch. It warms my dutch heart.
In which fencing style do you tell your opponent, "I am not really left handed."
All of them. It's tradition to start with your weak hand for a more dramatic fight!
Another important point is that they're not actually trying to kill each other. I mean, in-movie. Hopefully, actors are rarely trying to kill each other on-set.
That's the tricky part of movie sword fights being made to look more realistic:
A mistake in an unrealistic duel scene means you do another take.
A mistake in a realistic duel scene means you might need a new lead actor.
Jackie Chan’s stunt crew: hold my beer
Try telling that to Adam Baldwin.
This Video was really well edited and planned out.
Especially the "duster style" skit made me smile.
Great Job Skal.
"The 90's werent 10 years ago "is something my wife reminds me all the time. Lmao
I love your definition of a “oh shit - parry” XP
2:00 Skall got an "invisible" enchantment on his blade XD
I like to think that in the context of both characters, neither one of them really wants to harm the other. I think They're both stalling and bluffing until one of them surrenders or finds another way to win. I like that the movie establishes a bond of trust between them before the fight. It just wouldn't do for one of our heroes to stab the other. I'd love to see if you look at the fight with Inigo and the six fingered man. Is Inigo more aggressive in that one? I don't remember lol
Mike28625 i mean he literally came back from the dead to kill him.
He got throwing knifed, then collapsed. And then got back up and killed him and then he was fine.
The six fingered man was cowardly, rude, and unsportsmanlike. Wesley was the complete opposite, the whole dynamic was different.
@@Prince_Luci Ironically, the book version of The Princess Bride has the heroes all in dire straights as they ride away, with Westley's paralysis coming back, and Inigo's wounds reopening, and more.
But I like the movie version better.
Mandy Patinkin, who played montoya, was talking about this scene once in a behind the scenes video once. he said that it was inspired by older pirate movies. he and cary elwes (the other actor) proposed it to the director and he agreed. they were going for an overlong but not overly dumb or boring fight scene. that is how he put it i think.
Errol Flynn (Robin Hood - 1938) was Stan Lee's favorite action star as a kid.
I love how skallagrim actually does these. Not ripping on the the movie or the creators just stating facts. It’s really nice to see him respect the creators
At least they didn't just make up names. As a kid, I could imagine looking those ppl up.
Sees Skallagrim has put up a review of The Princess Bride on CZcams.
"Ah, I see you too like to live dangerously. "
It is probably impossible to appreciate the strength of Andre the Giant.
Inconceivable!
He didn't even exercise.
@@verenov77 yeah but he had a diesese that released growth hormones because something damaged his pituitary gland
Find footage of Andre from his early wrestling years. He was unreal. Unfortunately he was already in poor health by the late eighties.
true but by the time the movie was being made he was at his heaviest with massive amounts of pain especially on his back which was operated on before the movie was made. the actress for Buttercup said that he needed a harness to hold her up for the scene when he caught her cuz his back was in such terrible condition, in her own words "90 pounds and he couldn't lift me." Carey Ewles mentioned them making platforms for him to stand on when Wesley was choking out Fezzick cuz Andre could only support his weight for very short amounts of time
One of my favourite childhood films. I feel that this was a fantastic display of theatrical sword fighting, with some fencing master "techno-babble" to please the sword-geeks that were/are watching it.
Not historically acurate?, inconceivable.
You use that word a lot, i'm not sure you know what it means
@@theveryworstluck1894 You may be right.
@@theveryworstluck1894 lines!
Please don't ruin it, please don't ruin it, please don't ruin it
Ruin me daddy
*ruins it*
@@davecrupel2817 Actually ruins it like a boss
@@fulcrum2951 what's wrong with you
I actually never picked up these references in the dialogue or really focused on their swordsmanship. I saw this at a very young age mind you. This brings a new dimension to it.
The characters themselves were almost playing with each other. Inigo was thrilled to finally have a fencing partner who was as skilled as he was. He didn't want the fight to end, he was enjoying it. Wesley didn't want to kill Inigo, and Wesley himself was probably having fun, and could see that Inigo was having fun. I don't think either wanted to kill the other, they each just needed to win, but not before showing off.
I like to think a lot of the duel’s more “choreographed looking” parts are more of the two characters just playing with each other. The dialogue shows them to both respect each other as swordsmen. I get the vibe of two great fencers who win too easily and are happy to have a good challenge for once and are drawing out the fight. As it nears the end and Inigo starts to realize that Wesley is a bit better and has a better chance of winning, he dulls down on the more “fancy looking” attacks and gets more offensive and desperate. While he enjoys the challenge, he believes if he loses to some random person he just met, he’ll never be ready to defeat the 6 fingered man.
This movie has two of the most iconic duels, the fight with the Count when the music syncs to the blades hitting is just chefs kiss!
I just love how like 90% of it is in one take, they really practised a lot for their fights. Awesome movie, Great Lines: The Movie.
Anybody want a peanut?
That's enough, I mean it!
as you wish
Have fun storming the castle
@@weswolever7477 Think it'll work?
Christopher Godby It would take a miracle
One thing I never noticed until Windlass made Replicas baised on the film props a few years ago is that the swords used have very short blades. Like small swords on rapier hilts. I have heard the prop master did this for cinematic reasons. Easier to frame both actors, easier to use in tight spaces & less tiring to wield over long shoots.
"Stabbed in the back, while trying to be fabulous" I loved it!!
It's nice to know the writers and choreographers did some research. Not having studied, I always thought the Banter was akin to Chess Masters recognizing and appreciating moves or gambits. They both respected each other and their abilities and it's always nice to have a conversation with someone who shares similar interests, even if his intent is to dispatch with you.
Did you know the actor who played Westley had a broken toe in this scene?
maybe he should have Saw'ed it off?
@@Femaiden take your upvote an go, sir! :p
Yep, he mentions in the book that he did it while in an atv accident during filming. It was pretty bad when they filmed the scene where Buttercup pushes him down the hill. That's why you see him gingerly sitting down at the beginning of the scene at first, because of the injury.
I see you have an invisibility spell on you sword sir.
If Agrippas focus was on angular studies and biomechanics, it could be seen as a mathematical counter to Thibaults focus on geometric circling. Kind of a "counter punch the counter puncher" if you will.
While fencing is very much outside my skill set, swordplay is not overall. Like the video!
12:17 I see you're mastering the art of the invisible blade.
I'm not an expert by any means, but this type of stage fighting really reminds me of saber fencing. I think Matt Easton from scholagladiatoria meantiond most of the early movies employed military/marine officers as advisors for fight scenes and they were "only" trained in sabers, therefore despite using really different weapons actors use saber techniques.
Actually stage fencing typically looks more like sabers simply because it looks better. Rapier fights are too fast to see clearly and the movements are really visually uninteresting, at least on film. If you pull up an actual rapier fight from youtube it looks like 80% standing around, 10% stepping forward or back, and only 9% interesting grabs or captures with no slashing at all. The remaining 1% is trying to figure out who won because you can't see the deathblow. Sabers actually have a lot of movement, slashes, and other dramatic movements that end with a clear sword strike.
5:18 feel free to laugh at me, but I actually tested that by holding my sparring sword and watching this part a few times on mute, only watching your arms. I "deflected" the arm torpedo lunge every time, but couldn't see the proper lunge coming despite KNOWING it was coming.
OOOOH! what a fun vid! please do more of these! they are so much fun to watch.
This is a great video Skall! I can see the effort put into it alongside researched points that contribute to a truly good presentation. Keep up the good work!
I suspect the actors had a very good knowledge of stage choreography, and received some instructions to throw a bit of realistic techniques in there. And then the historical advisor probably threw in the real names for lols.
You're wrong. Patinkin had been trained in stage-fighting at Juillard and had taken a refreshed just before Princess Bride with the Yale fencing coach, but Elwes, of all people, was a newbie to stage fighting. Credit should be given to the excellent trainers on set. Bob Anderson has been mentioned a few times in this comments section, mostly in relation to Empire Strikes Back and Rob Roy, but Peter Diamond was also involved. He's best known for training Errol Flynn.
www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/10/princess-bride-30th-anniversary-sword-fight-inigo-montoya-man-in-black-rob-reiner-mandy-patinkin-cary-elwes
The name-drops of fencing masters were in the original book. Goldman's the one who did the research, not any historical advisor or swordmaster.
@@roguishpaladin So it is the other way around. I stand corrected.
"They touched swords, and the man in black immediately began the Agrippa defence, which Inigo felt was sound, considering the rocky terrain, for the Agrippa kept the feet stationary at first, and made the chances of slipping minimal. Naturally, he countered with Capo Ferro, which surprised the man in black, but he defended well, quickly shifting out of Agrippa and taking the attack himself, using the principles of Thibault.
Inigo had to smile. No one had taken the attack against him in so long, and it was thrilling! He let the man in black advance, let him build up courage, retreating gracefully between some trees, letting his Bonetti defence keep him safe from harm.”
What's going on in the book during the scene.
Thank you, Skall for showing off one of my all time favorite silly films. I liked the sword play in Princess Bride as it takes me back to the swashbuckling films of the 30's and 40's with matinee idols like Errol Flynn. Those films were often choreographed by actual fencing masters who did hide some of the more deadly strikes with stylized choreography but always did their best to give a good visual display for the camera. I was surprised to find that Wesley and Inigo were actually quoting names of historic fencing masters. Even though they weren't necessarily used in 100% historically accurate ways, I still find it impressive compared with the average Hollywood fare of the time. Of course I have loved the Princess Bride since I first saw it as it takes a humorous look at sword and chivalry type films as well as fantasy films in general.
I genuinely enjoy listening to you pick these apart
Video came onto my feed and I enjoyed it a lot, you have such a calming voice and the examples were great to watch
I like how your own sword keeps disappearing and reappearing throughout the video.
Damn ! Your French Pronunciation was actually perfect ! x)
Thanks so much for doing this video, it has been years since I have seen the movie, and years since I have been able to fence, this was such a wonderful treat!!
Fantastic video. It's been a while since I've watched you and this reminded me why I subbed in the first place (it did help that you were analysing one of my favourite movies).
omg I asked you about this in one or two of your streams! I am so glad you finally did this video! Honestly, you said about what I expected. Some of the acrobatics are pretty damn over the top, I think we all know this. Overall though, it seems Princess Bride does a better job conveying actual sword fighting than most, if not any movie out there.
Speaking of that, any recommendations on a film that has really good, true to historical sword combat? It can be fencing or battlefield type combat with polearms and armored knights, I really don't care the setting--I just want to see some realistically portrayed sword combat!
You could do a general review of the fights in The Last Kingdom, like you did for Game of Thrones. The armors in the series mostly look pretty dumb (and no ones wears a helmet because they gotta show their pretty faces), but the architecture is wonderful and some fights are quite ok. Most of them have stupid mistakes (like leaving a large shield behind when you attack), but overall I think they are above average.
I guess TV-show runners abbandoned helmets because they think that the viewers get confused too easy. In GoT it's the same thing. Random soldiers wear a helmet but the main characters never do it. It's not like you can easily avoid confusion (if there is any of it) if the helmets have a unique design.
Another reason that I heard is that the actors struggle with the helmet while doing their choreo. There are stories that Chadwick Boseman had problems with the Black Panther helmet while filming Civil War. He couldn't see very good through it and breathing was very uncomfortable. But Marvel had a solution for the problem by animating the helmet and giving an inuniverse explanation in Black Panther. If you have the budget, it is actually a pretty good way to handle the problem.
For every other movie or TV-show the solutions could be to test the designs before people have to work with it and hiring stuntdoubles that can work with a helmet. The second point would also be helpfull if your actor isn't able to do a proper choreo and you have to cover that the person in the scene isn't your actor.
@@reptiloidmitglied2930 Those are very good points. I get it's a multitude of things. FFS, even when playing Skyrim I like to use a mod that auto-unequips my helmet when I sheathe my weapon, because I spent many minutes designing a face I'll never see outside of dialog. And in TV and movies they usually fill the combat scenes with some dialog too, so we gotta see good interpretation. It is a major turnoff, though, to see a guy in leather pants, no gorse, no greaves and no helmet not getting a single hit. I mean, you can be the greatest warrior on the planet for the whole of Middle Ages, but you still know you gotta wear a fucking helmet. And in many scenes even the common warriors are just on shield and sword, no helmets. (not talking specifically about The Last Kingdom anymore)
Ty skull for doing this! Love all the work you put into this
this is one of my favorite movies and I love how you went through it. The techno babel is what I figured they were doing since I had no idea what they were talking about. I still loved this scene. Thanks for all the awesome videos and keep up the good work.
8:56 No you did well with the pronunciation, it's a correct french accent
As much as I adore that movie, and I truly, truly do, one thing always kinda bugged me about this fight scene...
As is stated, Inigo has spent the last 20 years specifically and intently studying fencing and swordplay with the express purpose of defeating the man who killed his father. Westley on the other hand, up until 5 years ago, had made his living doing menial labor. So, essentially, we are supposed to believe that the former farm boy who (as he later admits) only learned how to fence as one of many subjects gleaned from the other random pirates in Roberts' Crew was able to soundly defeat a true fencing master who had actively dedicated more than quadruple the amount of time to it's study...
Suspension of disbelief level: 99
Maybe he was a better/gifted student?
Inigo had an alcohol problem that certainly diminished his physical capacity, and Westley was considerably younger, so those factors likely made a difference. Also westley may have simply been a more gifted fencer.
True Love leads to many abilities some consider to be un-natural...
Study will get you a long way, but Innate skill does play a part. It can also come down to who was teaching you, if anybody. 20 years with a bad teacher or no teacher can easily be outmatched by less time with a better teacher.
Similarly, Inago mentions that lately it became more of a pursuit than study lately. So it's entirely possible that while he is skilled, he is less skilled than he could have been. There's also the reasons people pointed out as well, the age difference, Inago's alcohol problem, and Wesley's drive and determination.
LucianDevine no doubt the dread pirate roberts was an exemplary teacher.
Really cool video! I love this movie, and I love these sorts of in-depth analysis videos!
An excellent analysis of one of my favorite movies' fight scenes. Thank you for this!
you keep using these names. i don't think they were who you think they were.
Inconceivable!
Gerad Thibault studied destraza or at least was heavily influenced by it due to his styles immense similarities in the stance and footwork
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
You just made me watch that movie and I really liked it. Thanks! Also great video as always!
I love it! I knew at least 2 of those references were real, but I was always like "Why did Inigo refer to Augustus' General when rapier-fencing?..."
Thanks for the learning, Skal. Always appreciate learning new things.
What is the most realistic depiction of a sword fight in a movie?
Tyler Klotz The Duelists. Also Rob Roy was pretty realistic except for the end.
Iron Clad
Obviously it was the brief clip of a random fight shown in this video
The Hidden Blade. For realistic katana dueling. Uzumasa Limelight for most realistic potrail of swordfighting stuntmen, and women.
No idea...but my favorite has always been in "By the Sword" between Eric Roberts and F. Murray Abrams. Whether it's actually realistic?...ask an expert, but it looked amazing.
This is the breakdown I've ALWAYS wanted, thank you
Thanks for reminding of that movie, Skall! I might rewatch it someday, movie was cool when I saw it back in the childhood.
How realistic is the Aragorn Lurtz fight from Fellowship of the Ring
That's a cool fight, probably not very realistic (except for the whole, deflecting a dagger with his sword)
Matt Easton did a video on that
Funny you should mention that fight. Bob Anderson, the Olympic fencer and famous fight choreographer that pounded this fight scene into Cary Elwes and Mandy Patinkin also did the fight choreography for Lord of the Rings, and trained Viggo Mortensen for those fights.
jason sexton Bob Anderson choreographed a ton of film sword fights. Star Wars original trilogy, Rob Roy, LotR...
@@reagangaitens7154 I'm sure you can find someone who claims that's unrealistic.
Died in 1629
Makes a book in 1630
What a savage
Thank you skal. Very cool video
Great to see that you have a point guard on your swrod during filming your vid - shows that you're a knowledgable, professional expert when it comes to swordplay - you're making sure there is NO chance the sharp pointy damage causing part of your sword is going to cause any, even accidental, injuries - well done!