Hyundai, Why Does an Ioniq Battery Cost $60,000?
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
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00:00 - Intro
00:14 - Why I feel bad for Hyundai EV owners
00:27 - Crediting MotorMouth
00:47 - Starting the story
01:40 - The problem with the protective cover not being replaceable...
02:04 - Lithium ion batteries explode. We know, we know
02:40 - Tradeoffs are a reality of life
03:07 - An absolute piece of garbage
03:34 - What we USED to do
04:55 - Hyundai offered the customer a mild discount on buying a new one
05:10 - You need proper tools & procedures to replace the battery casing!!!
05:55 - The OEMs don't have these tools, training or prodecures either.
06:50 - the gtfoh price
07:55 - They doubled the price when insurance got involved
08:04 - I do not believe Hyundai dealers have the tools, training, or knowhow to do these repairs.
09:02 - Even Tesla is better than Hyundai here.
09:50 - They offered him a small discount
10:15 - The parallel with my industry
11:50 - The worst part - Hyundai hung their dealers out to dry - SHAMEFUL BEHAVIOR
13:20 - Hyundai lied about it being a misquote from 1 dealer when it was numerous dealers
14:26 - Cooling system failures - with NO dashboard warning!
14:50 - The dealer let him leave with this without telling him
15:56 - The car has an app, diagnostics tab showed no problems
16:28 - Does this make sense?
16:45 - Why I do what I do
17:12 - Where I was wrong
17:33 - WhY ArE yOu So NeGAtiVe
19:39 - My new toy, just because - Auta a dopravní prostředky
slowly slowly we will forget the term repair louis
Not before I die
@@rossmanngroupbe careful making such an offer to a lobbyist 😂 /sarcasm
@roasmanngroup which case is that that holds 12 drives??
There will always be repairman porn.
Some sort of server case designed for the job
I own and manage an independent hybrid, electric vehicle repair shop in Honolulu. I can tell you that basically everything Louis said here is correct. I see firsthand the amount of waste, hazardous waste, that is produced from this so-called green industry. The dealerships do not want to fix your car, and they especially don’t want to fix your hybrid electric car, because the manufacturers have not made it a priority to ensure that technicians are properly trained, and have access to good information. When you bring your car to them for a repair, they try to give you the highest estimate possible and then say, well your car is worth $6000 and you have $7000 worth of repairs, but will help you out and give you a good deal on a trade-in. Like Louis said, it would look bad for them to admit that they don’t want to or can’t fix your fancy new hybrid electric vehicle so they will use these tactics.
I once had a customer bring me a 2016 Fiat 500 E and this was in 2020 so the car was only four years old. They were telling her to scrap it or they would give her a deal for a trade-in. I popped the hood and within five minutes , I discovered the problem, a squirrel had chewed through two wires that went to a refrigerant pressure sensor that went to the battery pack thermal management system. I fixed the wires and the car worked fine. I have many many more stories like that that car was going to get scrapped over two little wires, I also work with the scrap yards and end of life management of hybrid, electric vehicle components like the batteries. So I know how much energy is required to safely dismantle that vehicle, and the battery pack when electric vehicle proponents make comparisons between the carbon footprint of traditional ice vehicles versus electric, they never include any of this information. Electric vehicles, take significantly more energy and resources to manufacture, and they must be for a certain amount of time before they reach a break even point. When they go beyond that you could say that compared to A ice vehicle that they are carbon negative. The thing that’s misleading about that though is that no electric vehicle is carbon negative, it’s only relative to an ice vehicle that you can make that statement by saying we would’ve burned this much gas, and since we haven’t, we could say that we’ve prevented that much carbon from going into the atmosphere, thus it’s carbon negative. The only thing that is truly carbon negative are plants or machines that suck carbon from the air, except those machines must be getting their electricity from a carbon negative source in order for that to be true And they also have a payback. To repay all of their carbon to manufacture those machines while I’m on this long rant, I might as well mention that it takes 40 years for a tree to sequester 1 ton of carbon so all that talk about carbon offsets by planting Mono crop trees is complete bullshit.
I used to have a shop in the Detroit area and had friends that worked for the big three auto makers. The amount of waste that’s generated from the research development and manufacturing of these new hybrid electric cars is insane. I’ve seen 100 kWh battery packs with 5000 miles on them get scrapped, plus the whole rest of the car.
It’s funny to listen to EV proponents say how much more reliable and long lasting and EV is versus a ice car and then turn around and say if you scratch the battery pack, you have to scrap the whole car. And then they wonder why regular consumers don’t want to buy EV‘s. I repair these battery packs all day every day, it absolutely can be done safely. When the actual cells have been damaged, then they are not salvageable, it’s pretty simple actually.
I’ve tried speaking with my vocal lawmakers, congressmen, and senators, different nonprofits to explain to them That the best way to get more hybrid electric vehicles on the roads is to simply take better care of the ones that we already have and Support independent hybrid, electric vehicle repair shops like mine. They might say yes that sounds great but I never got any of them to take any action. I’ve learned over the years that this industry is just greenwashing bullshit designed to remove and prevent reliable vehicle ownership.
Wow. Thanks for your testimony. So far I've read it 3 times. Definitely *NOT* a "TL;DR" style post. 👍
I just want to add a bit that while it's true that plants absorb co2 during the day, they produce co2 during the night. I'm not sure on ratios of any kind though.
You are mostly right apart from the paranoia (coming out of your comment about CO2 emissions - which, again, I understand because of all that fear mongering everywhere). I have been saying and writing the things you've written here for years.
Not only break even points and recyclability aren't being communicated to the public when it comes to EVs but the charging mix FOR that break even point, when it's calculated, it's calculated on the premise that all charges are done with solar and wind (which is practically unfeasible - not to mention the carbon footprint of solar and wind themselves and their horrendous EROEI)!
Moreover, the only proven thing that CO2 does to the planet is ... greening it so CO2 creates its own carbon sinks in making the biosphere richer and greener. So I wouldn't worry too much about CO2 (apart from how governments use it to tax us to death and induce debt-destroying inflation!).
Lastly, not many people know this but Global Average Temperatures are BELOW normal (30 - year average as a point of reference) for ALL the previous many years (at least since 2015 up to 2022). That's while CO2 was ramping up in the atmosphere! There's something wrong about their theories and you'll see a lot of narrative backpedaling in the years to come.
P.S. I have been studying climate science for the past 15 years.
@@Anonymous-zu7dh as plants grow they are becoming bigger carbon sinks and every new plant multiplies itself creating more of its kind. So, the planet is factually getting greener because of extra CO2 and that's observable by a dedicated satellite that's monitoring the planet's total foliage!
The fear mongers have somehow turned that around and tell us that this is now a problem (the greening of the planet - go look at NASA's page about the specific study of CO2 fertilization of the planet), which is absurd (especially when you consider that they often complain also about droughts, deforestation and other imaginary problems that are more attuned with more cameras documenting every single incident than the actual worsening of the situation in comparison to previous centuries).
I have a car with 180k on the original engine, and a truck with 270k on the original engine. Both run great, and will pass any test.
Insurance would write a salvage title long before anyone pays 60,000$. That's insane. None of these companies want to fix anything or be environmentally friendly
Yeah... like Louis said, this is the "eff you" price. They want the insurance company to total it.
unfortunately, as mentioned in the original video, in Canada that would drive the monthly cost of your insurance up by as much as 50%. it's a lose/lose situation.
And these un-repairable EVs are supposed to be a big part of the solution for the environmental crisis. Ugh.
Yeah and someone at the dealership probably bought it from the insurance co and fixed it for $300. 😂
they were never suposed to, solar panels used in public transportation would be a solution, electric vehicles is the solution in a world created for cars that can't suddenly change without destroying all the industries that were created to supply cars@@LizardVideoDude
Tesla tried to do this with the passenger seat safety harness. Their idea was to replace the whole seat vs pulling off the cover and replacing the harness. Customers weren’t having it and magically it had a fix.
I just put Aluminum foil and used harness off eBay last month and boom saved my buddy 1200$ 😂
Your analysis is spot on...We don't have mechanics who repair things today, we have technicians who replace faulty units...We must distinguish between parts and units...Take my wheelchair as an example...It has a motor part and a brake part...So when the brake fails, Quantum will not sell you a brake part, no, they sell you the motor and brake as one unit...Which means they make more money selling units rather than parts...This is how all corporations are doing business now...
as a mechanic i cannot explain to you how false this is. it's not that we don't replace parts anymore, it's moreso that the cost of manufacturing has gotten so cheap that the cost of labor makes it more expensive to have a technician tear apart and diagnose a faulty unit to replace one bad part. unless it's a major part like a differential or a transmission most of the time it is cheaper to just replace the whole unit unless you're doing the work yourself.
@@vsr3777 it has pretty much nothing to do with minimum wage laws lmfao its because we have more safety regulations in america and running a factory safely is expensive when you can just ship it overseas
Ford is good for that especially.
Evaporator temp sensor is faulty and costs 25 cents, they wont sell you the temp sensor you must by the entire evaporator unit that comes with it
Another example is fuel doors. They wont sell you a plunger for 5$, you must buy the door for 60$ that comes with it. The housing is broken? They will sell you a housing for 80$ or sell you both for 65$ that comes with the plunger
Very strange time we live in
Two years ago Hyundai had to recall 1000s of IONIQs and replace the batteries, if those batteries really cost 60k they would have replaced the whole car and not take the effort.
This should be the top post.
The dealers are comfortable with screwing over customers with these kinds of repair valuations. The public insurer took the hit this time, but that will eventually end.
Truth is none of this would be happening if consumers were responsible. While I love good regulation, none of these issues would even get this far if consumers simply banded together to be educated about what they're considering buying and refuse to buy because of it. Companies do this stuff because it gains them money, and they sure as shit sober up quick when their pockets are hit as a result. A government fine is negligible when talking about companies as large as this, but reputation damage and wide scale consumer rejection is enough to shudder an entire business if they don't do better quickly.
It was a software update. Rarely the batteries were replaced. Coming from a trained Hyundai tech btw
Recall cost are covered by the company, the hyundai-kia motor group. And they're legally had to do it. Isolated incidents like this are handled by dealership, they're different entities, and depending by the holder, state legistlation, things may be handled differently
@@gregh9762 What dealerships can repair is pretty much set by Hyundai. If they can't obtain the parts and manuals it's virtually impossible or at the very least very unattractive to spend resources on.
Forget the costs, forget the insurance.
I find it outrageous that a car company can simply decide to void a warranty without clear proof of intentional abuse.
Outrageous, but not surprised.
He says a car company can simply decide to void a warrantee without clear proof of intentional abuse. No warranty covers any accident damage on any part of a new car and never has. Accident damage does NOT include intentional abuse. This person is a moron.@@DKNguyen3.1415
Hyundai has just admitted that the car is not fit to be driven on the road as minor road hazards exist everywhere.
NO THEY HAVE NOT@@vociferon-heraldofthewinte7763
At one time a vehicle manufacturer had to provide parts for 10 years
There was a story from a man in Canada who was driving his Ioniq when he hit a muffler on the road, and it damaged his battery compartment. The car was totaled by the insurance company rather than pay 61k for the new battery
That was also an option for this guy, and then your insurance premiums go up like crazy the next year.
@Sugarkryptonite you may lose a "claim-free" discount but in most US states, if you have a clean driving record, you will legally get the same rate as everyone else, adjusted for separate factors like where you live (i.e. are auto thefts likely at your home). The rates will surely go up for all EV owners as more and more fairly new cars have to be written off. Insurance premiums on Teslas already reflect this.
They will total it because the battery cost more than the car. The Ioniq 5 doesn't cost 61k .
@@KentHenry8But, but don't forget this was in communist Canada, not the US.
@@Sugarkryptonite that's the point of insurance.... Shit happens.....
How about don't hit a fucking muffler? Didn't see it? Then get off the cars ass in front of you and back the fuck up!
How's this any different then it denting an oil pan and it closing the gap from the bottom and the oil pick up? The motor loses oil pressure, locks up and throws a rod out the side of the block and a fire ball follows setting the car ablaze. New engine, wiring harness, paint and some body parts needed...... The manufacture would be responsible to pay for that?
How is this any different? Please, enlighten me!
I do not plan to own or lease an 'electric' vehicle, ever. So very costly, and not presently effective as a dependable form of transport.
Both houses & cars have become too expensive for most Americans these days, most especially for single people and/or single-income households. Even a lot of 2 income households can't afford them.
This issue has been exacerbated by the practices of insurance companies, which can have negative effects as well. Some insurance companies may contribute to rising prices by providing coverage that encourages risky lending and speculation. Additionally, certain insurance policies can be expensive, making it even more challenging for families to secure affordable properties. It's important for individuals tor consider diversifying their income streams, independent of government reliance, as a wise approach in the current situation.
What if you don't know how to trade any of these? I mean, see your point some people have the money and are willing to invest, the question is where to.
I agree, that's the more reason I prefer my day to day invt decisions being guided by a invt-coach, seeing that their entire skillset is built around going long and short at the same time both employing risk for its asymmetrical upside and laying off risk as a hedge against the inevitable downward turns, coupled with the exclusive information/analysis they have, it's near impossible to not out-perform, been using a invt-coach for over 2years+ and I've netted over 1.5million
people tend to lean towards spending money on things that don't generate income, like liabilities, rather than investing in assets that can bring in profits. It's important to understand the long-term benefits of investing in assets and making wise financial decisions.
Yeah, I've been asking myself over and over how a replacement costs more than purchasing a -new- identical car. There has been more than one instance of this. It's not a one off.
@@manny022 EV's appear to be status symbols as opposed to a practical mode of transport.
The repairs aren’t subsidized by the government? Just a guess off the top of my mind.
@@DMR_MAK Speed running people eventually refusing to buy these cars.
@@manny022 What happems is that they engineer the vehicles and devices on a way that guarantees that they are hard and expensive to repair, just compare a modern gas engine to one from 2002 and one from 1994.
Not more, but the same.
"The 2024 Hyundai IONIQ 5 model comes in 4 trim levels. Canadian pricing ranges from $54,999 to $62,999 MSRP."
I hate when my car runs low on coolant and I have to buy a new one because the radiator is welded into the body of the car and has no coolant cap.
You're giving them ideas.
You have a radiator cap??
@@VegasMikeP229not for long
I watched the Munro Automotive teardown of the Ionic battery. What was interesting was how they indicated the battery had a modular design so it could be,... inspected and serviced.
All good points Louis. Unfortunately, the ultimate decision not to repair was severly tainted by the corporate lawyers who scared the dealers with claims of liability if they touched the car and then it blew up into a flaming black hole of death. Lawyers who have no technical background or understanding about charging systems or Li batteries are now in charge of Hyundai corporate policy.
Welcome to 2024.
No, the problem is just the fact nobody wants the liability. The dealers couldn't care less. If Hyundai tried to repair a used battery that has sustained anykind of a hit, and then that battery went out in flames even years later, and god forbid someone dies, thats the kind of news that can destroy a company.
This problem has nothing to do with our consumer culture. Lithium batteries can become unstable very fast for no apparent reason even when in supposedly pristine condition. And laptop batteries cannot be compared to these mammoth lithium batteries. Even just storing EV batteries that need repair should make you sweat. In Europe there has now been two battery warehouse fires in succession. These were just used batteries, not ones proven that got hit. Sorry but blaming anti repair movement for this one is just ignorance.
You have to do your own research if you want to have your EV battery repaired. But even those few little shops will make sure that you understand the risks involved in a battery that has sustained a hit.
They should send it to Rich Rebuilds or Tavarish and see how much it actually costs to fix.
yesssssss
I'd like to see Aging Wheels get his hands on it.
Rich will turn it into a hot tub
I think the other big thing is that the manufacturer voids the Warranty of the battery because of the shield damage also. It's another way for garbage to be produced and promises to be broken.
Not at all. No accident damage is covered by a new car warranty and your insurance will pay for the replacement as it should. I don't see what the issue is???@@bdaig12
Before EV's were a big thing I longed for an EV for the expected simplicity and lack of maintenance.
I wanted the EV equivalent of a VW beetle.
They made the EV equivalent of a space shuttle.
Good point!
These things have far more computerization and far less maintainability than a space shuttle.
If you have the know-how you can turn the beetle into an EV.
There are CZcams videos of people who have done so.
That is not fair. You can re-fuel the space shuttle faster than you can put 300 miles of electrons into an EV.
No, even worse, they made the EV equivalent of a cell phone
Hyundai can kick rocks. Had a 2015 sonata hybrid and because of the issues my insurance shot up 300% in the last year and I had the engine fully rebuilt at 30k miles from a manufacturer defect that left me car less for 3 months. Best decision I’ve made was trading it in and taking the loss.
I too had a '15 Sonata w/ 43K miles. I Traded it in for a Subaru Outback. Best decision I ever did. S. Korean & Japanese imports are a hit & a miss.
@@KermitOfWar you want reliable dependable cars. Buy Toyota or Subaru. Some GM trucks are good, and some fords but those will cost you 60+K and will essentially last the same or less than a Toyota or Subaru.
You can't leave out Honda@@AntilleanConfederation
@@ItalianJew Honda from 90s to about 2014. New ones not great.
@@KermitOfWarjapanese vehicles Toyota, Honda, Subaru are known for reliability. Korean cars are not
Windshield replacement for my Infiniti Q50 was quoted around 1200 at the dealer. Random sketchy repair place did it for 350 and that windshield has been good for years now.
Random sketchy places have the best foreign mechanics that speak no English and just trying to make it in the country they immigrated to. They know vehicles inside and out but can't get a dealership mechanic job cuz they can't communicate well. That or they have a criminal record and no ome wants to hire them. Either way, you're getting your shit fixed.
@@arzeey It was more or less exactly like that. Guy didn't speak much english but was super nice and said he had a windshield that should fit mine and if not no cost to me. Very happy it fit and has served me well.
It's kind of fitting that the industry that pioneered planned obsolescence is trying to fast track it even further.
Worked back then, 60 years of it and nobody seems to give a shit, consumers are actively OKing this behavior.
@@nortonman5238 It's the shiny new thing. People see stuff like mood lighting and AI adaptive warming cupholders that also controls your radio, for some reason. And the manufacturers promote these things as The new features. No wonder car mechanics can't get a handle on how to fix newer cars. Especially when OEMs don't provide any documentation.
I'm actually worried about auto electricians. Especially when these newer cars start rolling off "approved/official" repair shops and start showing up in independent ones.
Stop blaming just car companies when Democrat leaders are fast tracking auto manufacturers.
@@RedHaloManiac95 "don't blame the manufacturer for their bad business practices, blame the government"
Why do you people feel the need to make politics your identity
Unfortunately, this is just human nature.
Some genius was always bound to figure out one day that products could be made of a lesser lifespan to force consumers to keep buying replacements.
There's nothing we can do except to scrutinise and buy from less greedy companies.
Subscriber from the UK here.
Story not related to EV's, but a positive experience that I recently had with a product.
I do quite a lot of woodworking in my 'man cave' and one of the power tools I own is a compound mitre saw, which was made by a company called 'Evolution Rage' about 15 years ago.
A few months ago, the little laser module that projects a line where the blade will cut failed. To my surprise, I found an exploded diagram of the saw on their website, with part numbers and prices for all the components. I was therefore, able to purchase and fit the part myself.
I just thought that the company deserved a mention.
It is great to hear of a positive experience!
luckily this is still common with tool companies. makita provides full drawings and affordable replacement parts for their tools
@@drkastenbrot Actually, that makes a lot of sense! A skilled craftsman would expect to be able to fix things. It is a shame that it seems skilled workman are not as valued and things in general are not as repairable.
Much of my furniture is from thrift shops and made from wood with dovetailed joints. The finish is ruined from moisture, but it doesn't affect the strength, unlike particleboard. (I am unsure if it is veneered, so I am afraid to mess with the finish )
@@marymegrant1130 more importantly many skilled persons wouldn't buy tools that wouldn't allow them to be repaired. If phone, car, etc. purchasers wouldn't buy these things manufacturers would have to offer products that are repairable.
I had an 'Evolution Rage saw and I was about to be so disappointed but then you saved the day. The saw was brilliant, but sadly it got nicked.
One of the problems is having a 60,00 dollar part on a 60,000 car. The batteries need to be split up into smaller independent units costing somewhere in the sub $3000 or less. I hear that Tesla is actually working on this because they've gotten tired of rebuilding giant cell packs under warranty. And also wouldn't surprise me if the insurance companies haven't also said, we can end you with rate hikes for over-priced repairs. Now on the Hyundai, even if an independent shop wanted to take on a repair or rebuild of the battery, it could get expensive fast since no internal battery parts like those for cooling are available from Hyundai.
Tesla has made the battery pack a single replacement item for a long time. 3rd party repair shops where able to replace dead modules of the battery with used once though. That is over. The new structural battery packs are not ony glued together so no replacement possible, the stucturaal character means replacing it is far more work.
VW did the opposit ID-Cars have a modular, fiúlly servicable battery. They sell every part of it over the counter. The 58kWh battery has 9 modules which cost 1400€. And all ID cars use the same drivetrain and battery modules, so lateri n life, if you have a bad cell in a module, you will be able to use any battery module on junkyards of any ID-model car, the Audi Q8, the Seat, the skodas. That is why I buy a VW ID.
re: "The batteries need to be split up into smaller independent units costing somewhere in the sub $3000 or less." "NO LOW COST BATTERY PARTS FOR YOU...!!!" (best Hyundai/Soup Nazi mashup)
@@Chris_1024_ Yes, but Tesla has decided to go over to more moduler packs, from what I've heard on the grape vine. But changing over to them isn't going to be instant. It's going to take time probably 3 years before the first Tesla comes with them though.
It's already happening.
My girlfriend's brother wanted to buy a Model 3 but the insurance costs quoted were in the region of $6000 a year.
@@kiljaeden7663 This. M insurance company gives me a quote for the ID.3 that is 40% of Tesla Model 3 sr+.
Under Rich rebuilds 16." Tesla wanted $16,000 to fix this NEW Model 3, we did it for $700! The importance of Right to REPAIR!" Video, Tesla fans commented that the problem was that he didn't have fully comprehensive insurance, which would have covered the cost and this isn't a problem. They are just not thinking far enough. The insurance just reroutes costs of individuals to all customers. So If a car requires $16.000 repairs for minor occurances like a piece of debris destroying a $15 cooling pipe nipple, that 16k will make the insurance for that model far more expensive.
And if a car needs month to repair becasue spare parts are not stocked and scarce, that will drive renting car bills up.
Also Tesla's spares are really expensive. An ID.3 side mirror costs 400€ to replace. A Model 3 side mirror is $700. (all including labour.)
The aluminium is also harder and more expensive to repair than steel.
With the new stuctural pack, the battery will take more energy in a crash and is far more likely to be damaged beyond repair.
All that makes owning a tesla so much more expensive than a car that has a battery pack that is designed to be servicable and not a single replacement item. VW sells every part of the battery over the counter.
My son's Hyundai had an issue with the power seat, preventing it from moving back and forth. A plastic piece broke but Hyundai won't sell parts and the dealer's only option was to replace the entire lower seat assembly - about $1500. I found the entire seat on eBay for about $350 shipped, including the same color leather seat. I then realized the plastic piece wasn't the issue and that small flexible drive shaft from the motor came loose. The dealer didn't actually know how the seats work because they aren't allowed to repair them. The repair consisted of my wiggling the part until it seated properly.
There is a lot of incompetence around these days.
I seen the invoice for that battery and it comes with a 12 month warranty.
Pretty shocking for a $60,000 price tag. This will probably cause insurance providers to take pause on covering electric cars. Hyundai might shoot themselves in the foot if consumers won't buy their cars because no insurance is available.
Hyundai used to have the best vehicle warranty in the world.
@@eugeniustheodidactus8890 They had too because their original cars were absolute junk.
That's ridiculous. Tesla warranties their batteries for 8 years/100k miles. Rarely do entire battery packs actually need to be replaced, unless it's been submerged in a lake or driven 400k miles.
And we have a winner. If a car manufacturer can produce a road-legal EV that no insurer will actually insure, then they get to claim that they are doing their part for the environment and pass the negative PR to someone else, then kill off the line to save money cause nobody can buy them anyway which makes their investors more money.
@@thelight3112Tesla might also not continue the 8 year warranty if something similiar would happen where the customer would pay for a new battery themselves. Outside the warranty it would definitely be 12 months. Standars practice.
These EV battery-modules are monstrous, very complex and just removing them from the vehicle is a PITA. Just one cell goes bad, as is not too uncommon, even with brand new cells, have fun!
I'm one of the 10k recent subscribers, and you've been hitting the nail on the head in terms of the problems in modern US corporate culture. I am finishing up my MS in economics right now, but all of the problems/shitty behavior we see coming from these large corporations literally come from the MBA curriculum. Any business school in the US will teach MBAs how to screw over their customers, their employees - hell, even their own mothers (/s) to turn a profit for shareholders. From my perspective and knowledge, this system is unsustainable and is encouraged by my own field of study (theory of the firm and profit maximizing behavior). A LOT needs to change, from the culture at these corporations, to regulatory reform, and even so far as what we deem acceptable to teach our future business leaders.
Keep shining a light on the bullshit and hopefully enough people see this to help spark change. Godspeed
Most people in world used to say that a company cant be lead by an accountant, because they dont undersand that a company relies on its image. Now accountants tell companies their image is created by the public relations department.
@@Right-Is-Rightthey're serving the "shareholders" accountant or not. They don't give a shit about anything but share price.
Yeah, I refer to this as "extremist capitalism." Numbers for the number gods and damn the world. Capitalism has literally become people's religion.
Well said! I could not agree more. I am in corporate finance.
If they are saying that any damage to the protective cover means the battery could me damaged, then obviously the cover they are using is greatly substandard for what it is protecting.
That cover should be strong AF!
Should be aramid fibre reinforced polymer, maybe aramid on the bottom and carbon fibre on the top for extra stiffness.
Maybe it needs a protective cover....for the protective cover.
@@Scrogan Nah, you want toughness. If you aim for stiffness you end up with something glass which is very strong (can support a lot of force) but very brittle (can't withstand a lot of energy). Since impacts are energy based, they will just cause it to shatter like glass, which carbon fiber does. Kevlar behaves a bit differently but the resin matrix shatters while the fibers remain intact so you end up with an intact bag.
@@Scrogan "Strong" sounding buzzwords: Check
Knowledge of the subject: None at all
@@Scrogan No, you need toughness and abrasion resistance. That means some kind of steel, usually.
My only question at this point is that why does a 'Battery protective cover' doesn't do the job of protecting the battery? Specially against a rather expected scratch that you'd get at some point over the course of your driving. WTF!
They need to install a battery cover protector protector.
just like how if the bumper on some cars gets damaged they have to replace the entire front bodywork costing multiple thousands. When in the old days bumpers were there to take damage and be replaced cheaply to save the rest of the bodywork from needing to be replaced. But wheres the profit in that?
So they can charge you 60k
@@spankynater4242 and an additional cooling system for the cover’s cover 😂
correct. the cover is not designed to do the job it was designed to do...there were 2 cases in Canada about ppl running over things in their Ionic5 and needing a new battery (not covered because "owner abuse"
For some unknown reasons, I feel safer when I see people like you watching and fighting for the weaker who doesn't dare to speak out. Keep it up buddy. You make a difference & God bless you!
I drive two old Camrys 1996 & 2001 both are very reliable
Companies need to go bankrupt over crap like this. EV's are really looking more like a giant scam than a viable alterative at this stage. Glad you covered this.
It's not really a scam, it's more an immature technology.
They have a very limited supply of batteries which makes volume production difficult, and small production costly.
In China, the government regulates and funds battery development which allows for a unique market.
Outside of China, only Tesla and Hyundai are profitable.
Tesla is profitable because of high volume production and vertical integration. They're able to have their own dedicated battery factories and mineral mines.
Other companies buy off the shelf batteries and components which are generally expensive.
Hyundai and LG are Chaebols - basically mega-corporations beyond what we allow in the US.
Basically Hyundai gets first pick at LG batteries and it's a limited supply, so they prefer to use it for new cars rather than replacements.
Sodium-Ion will likely be the future for electric cars. It will remedy many of the concerns with rare minerals, cost, safety, charging speed, and toxicity.
EVs have never been a viable alternative
Ev's are a scam. There is no way we can keep up with demand if we go all electric grid and battery production both.
And this is very unfortunate, because the concept of EVs is very reliable. an electrical motor will outlast any consumption engine in the market, with very minimum maintenance. but those greedy makers adding these computers and intelligence to it, and having all this micro-transactions and subscriptions, leading people to think that EV is a scam while its not.
Bear in mind that in many states this is all you're going to be able to get in a few years
I've owned 2 Mazda RX-7's back in the 90's and I couldn't take either of them to my local Mazda dealership because they had ruined so many rotary engines. My choices were to drive 3 hours to a dealership that was certified to work on them or to work on them myself. I chose to figure out how to do everything on those cars myself. It actually wasn't that hard, which made me wonder how trained mechanics botched so many of them. DON'T TRUST YOUR LOCAL DEALERSHIPS!
I assumed all dealers shops would have the same qualifications.
BRAP BRAP
It often takes extra training to be certified to do some things. Since it wouldnt be economical for every single dealership to be certified in the many different things there is.@@marymegrant1130
@@marymegrant1130 Only for the most common vehicles that the manufacturer sells. Exotics often require separate training.
@@marymegrant1130 Greetings to Santa,the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy!
Very educational. It looks like road hazards are a major challenge for EVs. Thanks
i spoke with coworker ( he has Hyundai) that needed battery replaced under warranty, cost was about 17k. this is what service department told him when asked if he had to pay for it
You arent alone Louis, i work at a big car dealership and its actually criminal the stuff i see them get away with
Spill the info then, what are you protecting?
Report them. When they fire you for... taking too long of a bathroom break, sue them for violating the whistle blower act. Then Retire!
I know this all too well. I got a car loan at a Toyota dealership a few years ago. Someone there, I don't know who, stole my identity. They tried to open bank accounts, open credit cards and get a car loan. I said "tried," because I have credit monitoring, and I have a credit freeze in place with all three credit reporting companies. So, they weren't successful, and I wasn't out any money. But, I highly doubt I'm the only victim. I'm sure there are plenty of other victims out there.
@Wegetsignal between people buying cars and then 3 months later not being able to use their remote car starter (THAT THEY PAID FOR) because the brand is switching to a subscription service now they have to pay to use that same car starter. Also the corporate people come down and talk to the technicians about quoting and uncharging up parts that they don't need. Luckily the group of guys we got here is pretty good and we try and help people out as much as possible but there's things like checking the oil were not able to do because they want it to sit in the shop for an hour and the customer to pay our 139.99 diagnostic fee to check the fucking oil, there is so so so much more
"Wow that cover over your gas tank has a dent in it. We have to replace the entire engine"
It's not even that. You can replace the gas tank and entire engine on a new car for less than the price of a new car. It is you dent the gas tank, "here is the new gas tank you need. The gas tank costs more than the entire car which has a gas tank."
Every single time i was thinking about buying an electric car,i watched some of Louis's videos and the urge goes away. Thank you
Keep in mind these are isolated incidents. 99% of EV owners won't experience these types of problems. Just don't buy a Hyundai EV though 🙂
Thanks for sharing our story. We recommend watching both videos, it is all shown and quite a story.
I just bought a rowing machine, one I bought was a bit more than I originally planned. Main reason being is support and repairability. Other say the company is very helpful post sale and EVERY part is available to purchase on their site. You can even go back 7 generations in their line to 1980 and they have replacement parts of that machine. Love buying something where it's meant to last.
My '99 Jimmy is similar, pretty much every part was identical from 1994 to 2005, and was available in Chevy Blazer, GMC Jimmy, and Oldsmobile Bravada. Huge aftermarket supply for parts, and you can find them pretty much everywhere you look. Main difference between the 3 is the badge. Easy to work on, cheap to work on, and the motors are pretty dang bulletproof. I'll drive mine until the day I die lol
I owned 3 Conecpt2 Rowing Machines and they are built like tanks. And I could get spares even for the older ones. And the support and the community around the product was second to none. And, I bought all of them second hand with a few years use on them. I still maintain they are a machine for life. C2 don't need to advertise because the products customers *are* its advertisement and a testament to the quality and longevity of that product.
This is why I'm sticking with Weber grills. They are stupid expensive but the parts to fix them are readily available. Your crappy HD grill will last a couple years but you can maintain a Weber for 20.
@flyingbadger1759 What brand machine? Is always good to share them so others can support a good company.
@@Dalroth we went with Napoleon grills out of Canada, and have had an outstanding experience with them. When we had a minor issue that was partially on us, they even sent us out some of the parts for free and gave us detailed instructions on how to swap them in. Other than that, the quality has been truly excellent. The only downside is they're not cheap.
The sad part is Louis I’ve been working on vehicles for over 30 years and the covers they’re putting underneath these high dollar chariots are literally made out of papier-mâché. How many times I am pulling daggers and spears from underneath vehicles some of them that have actually punctured the fuel tank and the most bizarre way possible. You would think the bean counters in these companies would figure out a way to build a vehicle that would take care of and mitigate most road hazards. An owner of a 2022 Toyota Highlander ran over something in the highway and ended up having to replace $800 worth of carpet like material that’s all that acted as the underside of the vehicles cover absolute joke.
the catch is, cars are ment to brake, having a extremely strong flooring would effect crumple zones. I belive in a short while we may even see the cyber truck not allowed on American roads soon, due to how strong it handles impacts.
@@theglassarrow_ It would only take splitting the stronger covers in parts, shingle like structure, deforms well, and protects well.
Yikes. Just bought a 2023 Highlander.
@@HTOP1982 I'm not an enginer, so I wont claim the best way to work around this, but from my understanding cars are meant to break no matter which way they have an impact from, the primary part of electric cars having a skid plate is to protect the battery, and from my understanding their weak as is.
i cut mine and made a removable cover...pops off with 2 bolts dont need to remove the whole thing anymore
@@bkucinschi
👍👍video, This is just another issue with EV’s today and another reason why we are not ready for these vehicles to go mainstream
And to think I almost bought one of these...
Seriously Louis, super inspiring to see you continue to call this stuff out. I know it can feel futile when corpos keep doing the same shit, face no repercussions and people just eat it up, but I can promise you you are making a huge impact by not staying silent.
Keep it up!
i am/was strongly considering Hundai ioniq5, Ford Mach-e, or tesla3/telsaY. i dont even know any more. ive seen all 3 at my work place so i thought they were good
I was quoted a massive bill for replacing a fuel pump.
Turned out the issue with the fuel pump was a broken rubber seal. Replaced it myself, costed me a few cents.
There are very few real mechanics nowadays, even for conventional vehicles. Everyone just points to the "broken thing" and says "buy a new one of this".
And that issue is 1000% worse for EVs, because there are no independent shops working on them, and the dealers just don't give a F, they just recycle everything, customer can suck it. Cause really what else are you gonna do? Buy an old gas car and KILL THE REEF? Monster. Pay up.
They probably quoted you the fuel pump to cover there azz and its only what a good mechanic would do.when they tell you its just this seal your talking about and it ends up being the pump then you scream that they dont know what their doing....Have you ever fixed anything?nah im thinking
There are a lot independent shops working on them.
if i was changing out the seal between the pump and tank id change the pump while im down there
Tesla is king of the hill for *_"I got you by the ballz!"_*
Being a diagnostician takes years and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Being a parts changer cost hundreds and is cheaper to employ. When changing a part fixes the problem more then half the time, no one checks to see if the fuel pump is actually broken or just needs some new hardware.
I remember being a teenage in the late 00's, seeing all this talk about Tesla's EVs as they were really starting, and hoping to own my own some day.
It's been two decades and, somehow, simple questions like "what happens when the battery wears out and needs to be replaced" still hasn't been satisfactorily answered.
Hell, we only settled on a "standard" for charging plugs within this year after two decades since Tesla started. For something future forward, they're dragging their feet.
If you think Tesla is future forward you missed they're entire business practice.
It's money forward, with minimal changes or upgrades to our tech.
The cybertruck has the exact same "self driving" (lane assist cruise control) tech as their older vehicles
@@soulmourne2698 Welllll, they ARE technically recycled, but not in a teardown and rebuild from scratch sense of "recycling". Battery recyclers will take a Tesla batter pack of 7,000 cells, and find the bad batteries in each module. They may or may not test the life of the batteries to determine which ones are close to failing and those that have failed. So they may replace 200 bad cells and sell it as a remanufactured battery pack.
@@hannanah8036 Tesla got a decent charging plug and charge network, at least. But the point is, even after Tesla made EVs mainstream, there's still not a unified standard on how to replace the battery or a truly unified charging standard.
@@GH0STST4RSCR34M Every single self driving car I've seen has been an EV
I live in a San Francisco, where multiple companies have been testing them
That's what happens when 99% of your industry is ideologues who have not engineered a day in their life.
As an owner of one of Hyundai's EVs (thankfully "just" a PHEV), this is informative and unfortunate.
Thank you for shedding some light on topics like these, Louis.
I have a pad sander from my grandfather that still has a repair sticker on it from 1965. I still use it. It's a Craftsman BTW. I wish companies still fixed their products.
Like everything EV car related, the customer seems to be the beta-tester for the official rollout in 2030 when the customers will not be able to own these cars and be happy
Unt you vill eat ze bugs
@@bgg-jp5ei ze healing is not as rewarding as ze hurting
@@feztroutthetripledeluxefan yoo zo ze bdsm kinky computer man?
@@hyedefinition1080ja
It's clearly such a minor graze to the shield, I don't believe for even a second the gap they cited is any larger than it was the day it left the factory.
He is downplaying the damage. I watched the original video and the driver ran over something. From what they said the battery was hit and the hole being bigger apparently indicates there is internal battery damage according to Hyundai. There should be a way to check exactly what’s wrong, but there Luis is right, they don’t want to fix this…
@@M9_Prime No, they don't even want to check it. The car doesn't seem to have much of a problem. The guy basically took it to dealership to get it checked out just in case, and then they just looked at the cover and voided the warranty for it. They won't check if everything is in order, they won't even take out the cover, simply void the warranty because they don't want to deal with it. He can still drive it if he likes, just without warranty. The owner obviously won't accept that kind of bs, so the only option left is to go with the insurance, and since the battery change is made to be so nonsensically expensive, a perfectly operational car is totalled.
@@N0xiety the problem is the cost they are giving the battery considering the car new is like $55k (maybe after rebates, but close to $60k) the battery has been damaged and from what the owner said is because the warranty is void, if there was a fire or explosion he would be liable for all the damages because the insurance won’t cover that since the battery is deemed unsafe.
The big problem with these batteries is that if they are damaged on the inside and they don’t check, it could have a catastrophic failure down the line. There is a video from Australia where a rental car company took a damaged battery out of an electric car and a few days after it caught fire. This made the news because it was beside an airport and they had to shut the airport down. It ended up burning up 2 cars parked next to it… but the battery was just laying there, damaged and randomly caught fire. Insurance would probably love to save some cash but the risk and cost down the line is way higher. This tech is flawed, that’s all it is. The shielding should have to stand up to an impact determined by a governing body…
@@M9_Primeregardless of actual damage, 60k is still a fuck you price. It absolutely does not cost anywhere near that to produce otherwise they would lose 40K at least per car they sell.
@@jeremytine Certainly true for nearly all car parts now. I can't imagine headlamps cost 2k to produce either. Imagine how much you'd have to pay to assemble a car from parts, probably 3-4x the cost on the forecourt at this point, and that's one reason we're paying such high premiums now. It's leading to premature scrappable of lightly damaged vehicles and nobody seems to care about calling it out.
I have never bought a new car in my life…. Not because I can’t afford one, because I don’t want to be repeatedly screwed by the dealer!
I can only agree with you , I have a Chevy Volt 2015 and the dealer wanted to charge me $4k to replace the onboard charger , I said no and went to an independent EV repair shop and finally it was fixed by a software update that the dealer should of done. I know dealers have to make money BUT when they try to screw me they will loose my business forever. Also dealers don't train EV techs properly to diagnose problems and it's a generalised problem in the tech industry , I know that for a fact since I fixed electronics for 40+years and in the last decade it was almost all computer based training that companies forced on everybody as a cost cutting measure . It may work for minor things but not for major products like storage systems or complex printers.
Having worked in the EV industriy myself, what Hyundai is doing is insane and should be severely punished by consumers and regulators. My company established battery repair centers specifically for checking and re-assembling batteries.
Those greedy corporate MBA drones in HQ have to see some serious loss of turnover for this kind of policy.
Tis' the old :
Give you the razer for free
charge you for the replacement blades
I bought an Ioniq 5 a few months ago, I love the vehicle but now I am scared as hell. I hope if this happens to me the insurance picks up the bill.
They will pick up the bill but then they will apply a surcharge to your policy making it expensive for about 5 years.
i would sell that thing before the finacial desaster like that happens. a Volkswagen Golf Diesel would be a better choice.
I have the same server chassis! It's in a rack next to my desk in my office. One of the best decisions I made was to replace the fans with Noctua with the "quiet" adapter cable inline.
I work at a small repair store and I share your sentiments with all of this, I'm sick to death of how bad these companies are. And what really blows me away is the inconsistency of some of the big players where they prove they CAN do the right things with some models but then ALSO release unrepairable garbage at the same time
It's all about mixing in enough good PR to confuse the customer.
Like me, expecting the screen bezel to remain available for replacement on an Ideapad 5 a few months after they changed over to a different design. I also later found out that the power button could have broken off at any time.
"I work at a small repair store"
Ummmmm....... Well I don't know how to say this but I'll try...... If they did it all then places such as you're repair store wouldn't exist!
I don't understand why the companies HAVE TO be responsible for it....... A phone repair facility or computer repair facility repairs such a wide variety of different manufacturers and that's why it makes sense! If there was a separate different repair facility for every company then it doesn't make as much sense...... That's essentially what the issue is here that's being brought up. Sure you go to a company and they either say that they won't repair it or the way that makes sense to repair it is to replace a complete unit as opposed to figuring out what component failed and replacing only that...... BUT that's why places like your employer exists! If you go to the dealership they will replace the entire battery module and charge $60k, but if you go to a specialized battery repair facility they will replace the bad components for $10k.......
So what's the problem? Why does the dealer have to offer the same? NOT to mention with that (or this) particular scenario the dealer is NOT the manufacturer!
It needs to make sense, it needs to make money, that is in fact why companies exist!
It's not that you MUST pay them $60k, it's just that is what you'll pay if you want them to fix it!
The issue is not of fault of the manufacturer, the manufacturer isn't refusing to repair it, if you don't like the price, go somewhere else! It's not their responsibility for someone hitting debris in the road! They are not liable for the vehicle exploring either when they told the owner it could blow up if they continue to drive, then THEY turn around and fucking drive off! Seriously why in the hell would that make the dealer or manufacturer liable if it does explode? That whole thought process is asinine and honestly THAT is a much bigger issue in today's society right there! I guess that is what all this bitching is about, that these companies should be responsible to do shit in a different way because their solution isn't good enough!?!
If YOU break your phone, why should the manufacture that made your phone be required to fix/replace only the minimum? Why should they not be paid or make money from your negligence? Accidents happen, but it's not their responsibility to fix it in a manner that suits you because you don't like their method or price!
With that said, do you know where these big manufacturers don't repair just the case? Because if ANYTHING goes wrong at ANYTIME with that battery down the road then they will be blamed no matter if it was because something was missed or if it was unrelated and they will be sued for some ridiculous amount without question....... But if they replace the entire thing, then whoever manufactured the battery will be at fault!
Or if the customer has a small repair facility fix it, IF they miss something, it's much easier resolved and it will also need to be proved such was the case and if it's just something else failed then it's chalked up as tough luck. Typically with electronic repair there is an agreement between the customer and repair facility that the failure could have caused degradation to other components in the circuit that may not be evident until later. Obviously if the same component keeps prematurely failing in time it will show when already repaired units start coming in with the same component failed... THEN when units come in with the original issue as the others, obviously those other components are going to be replaced as well. (I repair car audio amplifiers and we don't only replace say just one fet that failed, we will at minimum replace all in the same circuit to negate any weakened others also so the values all match, We also replace the gate resistors for cheap assurance think that's kind of universal though? I'm not entirely sure, car audio amplifiers often are pushing the components to the brink of their limits so there is no room for error and so many unknown variables in the supplied power it's questionable. They really are a crude design because of that, not every cars electrical system is the same and it's unknown if the consumer will make sure if not. Unlike with mains voltage where the power in is the same across the board.
Went down the rabbit hole..... My bad.
@@arnehurnik I'm failing to see your point.... Like you? How does those relate? Why are you expecting to break the screen bezel and what's the issue with the power button that's so bad?
I'm sure there's plenty of used parts from other broken machines to source a replacement bezel or some aftermarket will make one especially if it's a well known issue (there's usually aftermarket parts for laptop cases and as such is the case for you! A quick search on Google shows a plethora of replacements available for your device... Further only confusing me on what you're getting at!)
What people fail to realize is when a company has a product, only so many extras are created and for the most part it it turns out they all have the same issue, a replacement from the OEM is going to meet the same fate as well because they make all the parts at the same time because they can't just have machines sitting in wait and need to swap everything out to make the current or next model! If an issue comes about while they are still producing that product, sure they will make revisions, but for electronics rarely is the case since everyone wants different and new every 6 months! A vehicle is manufactured for as many years as possible typically with only slight appearance changes for appeal.
If I remember right, every car on average costs around 2 billion dollars in research and development. I'm not sure if that includes the tooling and assembly line costs. When a part is revised the part number changes and the original is superceded. HOWEVER a different part number doesn't always indicate it was revised or updated and just means it's being built by a different manufacturer. They switch part manufacturers all the time be it a lower bid or have more than one to meet demand. (This is why only certain years or certain vin number ranges are recalled of the same vehicle. Because only those vehicles used that part by that manufacturer or with the same batch of parts.
There's so much more to it than people realize, they don't care and don't think. They think everything is made in one place by one company and that's far from the case. Each individual part could be made by several other companies. For instance, I did some work for a metal foundry, they ran batches of parts for a bunch of different companies. They made a part for GM, they cast the part then machined the part in house. Then that part went to a company that prepped the surface of the part (vibration tumblers), from there it went to a different company to be cryogenically treated then from there went to another company to be coated then went back to the foundry to complete the machining and final QC check then crated and sent to GM...... 4 different companies touched 1 part and it was just 1 housing for some other part!
GM contracts the foundry and the foundry contracts the rest. Not every part goes through the same, some go to no other place and some go through less, some go through more!
Point being it's not that easy and sometimes it's just absolutely not feasible or make sense!
Don't blame the companies, blame the consumers that demand new! People are never content and if they don't rush a new product to market then they very well might go under ..... And they wonder why sometimes shit goes wrong! People demand quality but will not allow time to make sure! So they hope for the best and the consumer becomes the test pig and roll with the punches as they come.
Wish everyone would read this!
It says 3 comments but I'm not seeing my 2nd one?
Years ago I brought my mother's car to the dealer because the transmission was slipping. They said I needed a new transmission so I said to put it in. It was thousands of dollars. When they realized I had an extended warranty suddenly the transmission was fine and just needed a cooling line. Some things never change.
Cool story but you are talking straight out of your ass. Mechanics/shops/dealers DO NOT PAY for warranty or extended warranty repairs. They GET PAID! The extended warranty company pays the bill, not the dealer/shop. If they were looking to screw someone, they could have easily just charged the warranty company for a trans replacement. Instead, the shop was HONEST and when they realized their first diagnosis was incorrect, they changed the recommendation to the correct and much cheaper repair. It sounds like they did everything right and you are still salty all these years later. Sad
@@deluth4638 Unless they have to PROVE to the damages to the warranty company. And while they could bullshit the customers, I doubt they can bullshit the 'damages' to the Warranty, and would tell the shop to fuck off and not only not pay, but probably sue them for Attempted Fraud
@@Jirodyne Why do people like you just say things that they have no clue about? You're just making it up as you go along. I'm speaking from 30 years of experience in the industry. What do you do, sell shoes?
I once had a customer with a BMW i3 smack a boulder and dented the battery decently. I took the time to make sure nothing was energized or getting too hot. Did the repair for them for about $6000 which included parts and labor. Needed a battery case, cooling grid, and 1 battery cell. The battery module had a dent in it. I worked at a BMW Dealership as an EV Technician. We have procedures in place just for it, actually there a whole section of training for it.
That enthusiasm for your own custom builds is great! Built myself a new system last year for the first time in ages. Great hobby!
As someone who worked for one of the largest Hyundai stores if anything isn’t warrantable or lemon-able typically a dealer service center will just quote an insane number to replace/repair and hope the customer just gives up and buys another car.
Seems like a good way to make sure they buy from _someone else,_ though?
Yeah. If I got the quote for 60k repair bill, not only I go buy some other brand of car but also talk to my friends, family, CO workers, strangers on internet basically everyone not buy this particular car brand anymore.
Yeah, but this doesnt show up in the graphs, at least not in the short therm as the same CEO or whoever responsible for such attitude is there.
This has happened 3 times in Canada all 50-60k for battery.
@@joec8321 The information is out there about how much garbage Hyundai/KIA vehicles are. But people don't do their diligence and check things out. And don't go by what you see from some paid reviewing publication or some reviewer says who is given use of a vehicle for free to review. Check out forums dealing with vehicles that are actually owned by people who can relate "real world" experiences.
I recall a time during my electric vehicle (EV) training when the Hyundai Ioniq was undergoing a recall for issues with its EV batteries. These batteries were being replaced, and the facility where I was training managed to acquire one. The replacement battery, known for its extended range, weighed approximately 1500kg. A critical feature of this battery is its hermetically sealed case, which isolates it from the atmosphere. If the case is cracked, the integrity of the battery is compromised, leading to potential safety issues.In contrast, some of the early Toyota Prius models experienced corrosion in the bus bar of their hybrid batteries. This issue was often traced back to the replacement of the 12V battery located behind the hybrid battery. A common oversight during this process was failing to refit the breather to the side of the battery, leading to the corrosion problem. This highlights the intricate nature of EV and hybrid systems, where even minor maintenance errors can lead to significant issues.
As for prius bus bar issues. I cleaned up a bunch of these, and they worked just fine after words. In the case of things that should be sealed. I dont see any reason that there couldn't be a procedure to reseal things. I've certainly seen plenty of gas car vehicle have fires due to corrorosion, improperly installed fuel lines and other parts, aftermarket stuff etc.
@@jamesmelemede5610 i honestly don't know as I haven't opened up any of said battery packs, but to me this feels like a lot of products where they purposely make them difficult to repair/inspect. It'll be interesting to see how these vehicles age and what aftermarket solutions people come up with. Feels like when the prius came out everyone said similar things, but like I said I've repaired a ton of prius battery packs, replacing cells, connectors, bus bars, etc without any issues.
But the CEOs NEED another yacht! 😂
& personal jet...
It was probably said already but they have a follow up video for another one of these situations that happened on the other side of Canada (I believe this one was Vancouver, the second one was Toronto). I watched them before I saw this video and I’m glad you’re making people more aware of this kind of garbage. I had a lemon from Hyundai and it took the most stressful month of my life going between corporate and the dealer to get them to take it back. I was relentless though and eventually they caved before I had to get a lawyer. I’ll never buy a Hyundai/kia product ever again but if I didn’t have this situation happen to me personally, I would seriously consider this 60k battery replacement as the straw that made me avoid them forever.
The second was from Nova Scotia but still exactly the same price for the replacement battery
That hole is not really a hole, it's just missing the plastic plug that covers the access bolts for the battery pack.
But this is just my opinion, I have never touched a Hyundai Ioniq before. I have worked as a mechanic for 12 years with multiple brands, a large part of it being japanese cars. And that photo seemed to be showing a plastic deflector shield, that seems to be covering the battery pack, and a plastic / rubber plug that covers access to the bolt for the battery pack seemed like it was missing.
I suspect the only damage really is just the plastic deflector that is severely worn / scratched, maybe even cracked in some places. A lot of these parts can be inflated by the dealer, but the replacement time is usually not long, 1hr, 2 hrs tops. I would not expect a bill larger than 1.5-3k CDN for the plastic deflectors and labour.
The problem for some dealers is that they've been given none of the training or equipment for testing dinged battery packs so they're writing the off for any damage to be on the safe side.
This is why PROPER consumer protection needs to be mandated by law
Gonna be abused and unenforced
You are one of the only environmentalists I have ever heard of. So much deep down hypocrisy in fundamental to our culture. Thank you!
Good report as usual - Check into govt regulations regarding these EVs because I recall reading that govt has mandated to dealers that anything to do with the batteries requires a WHOLE replacement - which indicates why the OVER cautiousness regarding any damage anywhere near the battery compartment.
Govt has become way too involved in every sector of our lives in my humble opinion.
it was 60k Canadian, so it was $45k USD- much better right!. The 2 crazy things are 1. the battery is likely fine. 2. 45k is over triple what Tesla would charge for a similar-sized pack.
The cost and waste analysis is a great topic. Will manufacturers make the right decision to repair cases before or after the resources and cost needed to replace these batteries become too prohibitive?.
It looks like we're already at that point, but as you said, they'll happily pass on that FU price instead of taking care of their customers.
The more I think about it I think having a company on the stock market is not good. They become too worried about profit.
I know it can be important for smaller companies to get money and a way for average people to gain gradual wealth over time.
Idk what could be done about it or how to replace it, just seems this insane drive for profit is really starting to hurt us now. They act like there is no other way in making money besides screwing over your current customers. Instead of pitching new products, they propose the already proven plan of squeezing money out of current customers like how apple does.
Maybe just uses public transportation
It's not environmental friendly if most powerplant itself still use coal to generate it
This only moves the problem to another, not solves it
@@The_Divergent true but I don't think most American power plants use coal. You also got to consider the environmental impact of mining the stuff for the batteries. Most often done in third world nations with no environmental regulations. I think Australia mines a lot of lithium but they also need other things like cobalt.
Rn, it seems more about shifting who's polluting the most rather than reduction. It really doesn't matter if we cut pollution in the US if they increase pollution in China or Africa.
@@The_Divergent Actually EV's are net neutral when powered by coal. Central power plants have thermal efficiencies of over 40%, the grid is at least 85% efficient, EVs are 90% efficient: leading to a system efficiency of 30.6%. Your small mobile ICE will only get up to 30% efficiency in the optimum RPM range on the highway.
But one thing electrification does is make it easier to decarbonize the grid without replacing all of the down-stream equipment. Your heat-pump does not care if it is running off of natural gas or nuclear power (102% system efficiency, assuming a COP of at least 3.0): but will still beat the efficiency of even a 100% efficient gas boiler.
I agree with you 100%. And I used to work for Hyundai as a tech. Hyundai had and still has an engine recall which means an entire engine block was to be repalced. I always thought it was insane that we were replacing so many engines when possibly a simple repair was all that was needed. There were situations where engines caught on fire so I understand why the corporate owners and managers are coming from because of how sue happy all the lawyers are out there. They are afraid and just want a complete replacement. And that's probably why Hyundai told that particular customer that an entire battery had to be replaced because no one wants to be held liable if an issue were to occur. For things to change in the future....We will need to first fix the issues with all the crazy lawsuits that can be easily brought up by anyone. Until that changes, nothing else will change.
As a tech you should know that recalls are mandated by the federal government. It's not just "crazy lawsuits that can be easily brought up by anyone."
@@Andoxico yes but it's up to the manufacturer as to what repair will be performed. Once it is known to the public that there is a recall the lawyers get happy knowing that car owners will be happy to sue! That is the reason why manufacturers don't wanna deal with certain repairs.
We really need your voice in the fight to stop this genocide. The ferocious way in which you fight for Right to Repair is inspiring- and that tenacity is needed to help stop and speak out against the Israeli ZioNazis and their genocidal campaign. Nothing in current events is more important right now.
I've seen this story reported a few times. One question that needs asking, in my view. What is the point of a battery protector that is incapable of protecting the battery in normal use?
I'd also like to add to your question. For decades, how have we managed to build gas/petrol tanks on cars that don't spring a leak when hit by road trash?
Right? Hardly any damage at all to that cover,it was just a little road rash.
The description in this video is pretty misleading. The vehicle ran over something very substantial, enough to push the protective plate so far up in to the battery which caused a rupture of the battery cooling system. It, in no way, was scratches from pebbles in a construction zone.
I watched the core discovery video a few weeks ago. One aspect a lot of EV owners seem to miss is any minor incident with their car sets up a mandatory battery check. But until the battery is checked you can't park your car in your garage or next to a home. The whole EV marketplace is set to implode as owners start to wake up to the lack of repair options if you have a minor incident. And the biggest joke is so many EV owners are mind zapped they are saving the planet by their expensive purchase. The car companies know these owners are cashed up, so the business model is get as much of their cash as possible. Wow, why am I now thinking of Apple in the same thought bubble.
Stop injecting your self with street drugs. You can park your ev in your garage after an accident. No one is requiring a batter charge
They fools actually harming the planet. As an EV contaminate several times more due to the toxic materials used.
Communism is a powerful weapon when it’s packaged as “saving the planet bro” 🤣
3 replies here but only 1 reply is showing? Actually 2 if Tyrannical Oppressive Lawless Screwtube is showing my comment! CAN U SAY SHADOW BANNING!! I wonder what the other commentators said to get their comments banned!
It's scary true.
As someone who works in a dealership, theres been so many times when cars that have come in were actual life threatening hazards, but we arent allowed to prevent the customer from taking the car because it belongs to them - which when you think about it is consumer friendly. we just make absolutely sure that they understand that driving the car could cause injury or death
I’m so glad I’m a part of this community and not a mindless consumer. Thank you Louis
I love it. Gasoline. Manual transmission. "Keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel."- Pam Courson.
I love how my gas tank doesn't need a dedicated cooling system and only costs $200 if I drive over a boulder.
Of course, these days, we have to scream at people to put their phones down and pay attention.
Smart phones and social media have ruined people.
@@vivianrichards1313 They helped, but only because it was a new kind of easily available distraction. There have been stupid drivers for as long as we've had automobiles, unfortunately. Long before cell phones became so universal I saw women putting on makeup and men shaving, weaving all over the lanes.
My favourite was way back in 1992: when on holiday I was approaching the Bay Bridge from the east and I saw someone with a paperback propped on the steering wheel, barrelling down the freeway. I warned the toll booth operator, who said: "Oh, honey, thanks for the warning, but trust me I've seen it all.".
Never stop bringing situations like this to light, Louis!
In Germany it roughly costs 20.000€ to replace the whole battery…
What I am curious about is how it's possible that the car is not still under warranty. It's not like these cars have been out for 10 years.
It is considered an accident not a defect in materials or workmanship. The insurance companies won't put up with this for long since it only looks like a scratch.
25 years ago I worked for an electronics store which actually REPAIRED stuff. TV’s, VCRs, Printers, replacing capacitors etc. Then it became cheaper to replace whole parts like power supply. Now you throw in bin and replace whole thing. This is also why people want cheap junk from Walmart, because even big brands premium items are unreliable, unrepairable junk.
I would think 10 to 20k is understandable but 60k is just a scam but batteries should be modular so its easy to repair and replace bad cells then the full pack....
You can replace cells in theory...
Stop making sense.
@@riba2233 Tesla batteries are usually made in 48v chunks of individual cells, they still don't seem to sell or repair them individually despite that since I've seen obscene price quotes from damaged tesla batteries. Most any other EV is made of individual cells in parallel or series, I doubt the hyundai is any different.
Welcome to the new normal. Get effed, customer, because I like money.
20k?! You're cool with paying Ferrari parts and repair bills for a tesla? Bro.
@@pontiacg445yup. Gonna be keeping my gas car for the longest time...or get a Toyota Prius. At least the latter is repairable because it's been on the market and is proven. I see Chevy Bolt EV used sell for $20k...but the risk of battery replacement cost is too high.
I'd be perfectly happy for a 'Yahoo Like Louis' to replace the battery. Louis actually cares about doing it right...
Videos like this revalidates why I break open every single WiFi plug/ Bulb and either flash or replace the daughter board with Tasmota compatible chip to run Open Source Tasmota.. I have been able to run without any random app so far.
Hyundai tech here , I don’t see many battery failures but all of them have been on cars with less than 5k or even 500 miles. You know what happens when people realize warranty doesn’t cover all of it and they still have to pay atleast 10k? While they’re still making payments? They fix it then dump it and get into something else.
I haven't messed with the batteries on the new electric cars but the automotive school i went to 13-14 years ago had a hybrid class that was an elective. The 3 batteries that we got to play with were all serviceable as the cells almost looked server racks and plugged in to large bars. Also with the on board diagnostic software (accessible with a scan tool) on one of them that even told you what cell was bad. On the videos ive seen on some of the newer EV's the batteries looked completely sealed and not serviceable.
@@michaelscarport some newer EV's, Tesla included, made battery packs as part of the frame structure, meaning when the battery goes out, the entire car HAS to be scrapped. That was the instant I decided electric car designs weren't for me.
@@Iron_Sights99This is not true, the structural packs are easily replaceable.
@@diytesla I recall very specifically saying "some", which means
"not all currently being made"
@@Iron_Sights99you said “Tesla included” :) either way, I am yet to see a car design where the battery is not replaceable.
@@michaelscarport I had considered this long ago - cars should be designed over standardized battery modules, not designing batteries for each generation/make/model car - you get supply issues. EV station cart pulls out battery module(s), another cart reloads and off you go on a fresh charge. Like drones on a larger scale. Modules should have a standard voltage, entirely rebuildable with different cell tech. GM and Hyundai would use same module. I found 240VDC the best to allow differing number of NiMH, Li-ion, and LiFePO4 cells (same LxW, different depth) can be stacked to get close to 240V. But manufacturers want the monopoly on batteries and here we are with $60k batteries.
Imagine a dealership repairing the battery. Then the owner drives the car and parks it in a parking deck. Its battery subsequently catches on fire and burns up all 500 cars in the parking deck. The dealership would be sued into oblivion. Furthermore, the insurance companies KNOW this and will likely prohibit their insured from repairing the batteries.
EVs are not feasible and we'll all be better off when everyone finally agrees with this. Also, see many Ford dealers have refused to sign up to be EV service centers...
I like the spark in Louises eyes when he touches his server, nice details :)
I think this all centers around liability.
If they fix it, they’re liable for what happens afterward
They must know how something we don’t in regards to how dangerous these things can become and it must be serious enough to make them do this
re: "I think this all centers around liability..." "CORRECTAMUNDO...!!!" (best Sam Jackson/Jules Winfield/Pulp Fiction voice) re: "If they fix it, they’re liable for what happens afterward..." "ooooh, that's a bingo...!!!" (best Christoph Waltz/Hans Landa/Inglorious Basterds voice)
I've been watching your channel for about 6 months. I don't work in the independent repair industry, but I like to watch this channel to keep up with the new and exciting ways companies come up with to screw us over. I'm so sick of the games that these companies play with people, and your channel hits the nail on the head. That, and I love your cats. Keep fighting the good fight. Schematics or die!
I used to watch the repair streams, found them relaxing.
Heh, considering that BS comes in giant Costco sized barrels nowadays he can do this complaint channel till he dies or the heat death of the universe takes place, whichever comes first 😂jk
Ideal morning:
Coffee
Coding
New Louis Rossman video
Thank you, Sir. Always enjoy the content, and the common (or not so) sense.
Have you heard of the Norwegian guy who had a MG5 that hit a draincover. No warnings and he drove it to a dealer to get it checked just i case. Repair cost with new battery was $97.000. A new car cost $33.000
This is why standardised battery modules and battery swaps was a better ecosystem for long haul, with charging at home being for more daily. In the end the modules would make this sort of thing a non issue.
I’d also love to see multiple smaller battery packs with, for example, 10kw. Taking the Ionic5 as an example, to achieve the 50kw, it would have 5 of those independent modules that would hopefully help mitigate damage to other modules in the case of an accident. Like Louis said, with proper procedures and tests to determine if a battery module is damaged or not, you’d only need to replace one of two of the one 5 modules, lowering the bill. Also, there should 100% be a refurbished option. I cannot believe for 1 sec that, even if there was actually damage to the battery, that ALL of the batteries were damaged. There’s more to it than just replacing a single battery I know, but in some cases, the casing has a scratch, the internals are good. Ok, then here’s a 50/60% discount on the new one cause I know I can grab that battery, change the casing a resell it for a healthy profit.
That is the way Tesla's used to be made, using standard 18650 cells bundled up into a 5.3kWh module, and the pack using several modules. Then Elon got involved and all that innovation went out the window, along with the rare earth magnet free motor and sonic sensors for safety.
Yes. End all subsidies for cars that dont use a standard pack. At least some open-source pack requirement.
Hmmm. How do you know you're not getting someone else's swapped out damaged battery?
@@mick0905 how do you know with any car part? Refurbished/recycled parts are a thing, and have to be clearly pointed out to the customer in my state.
Thank you for making this video, Louis. I made sure to watch it till the end. People need to see this and regulators need to know about it. It can't be that the battery costs more than the vehicule when it was new. I drive an EV myself, but I will not recommend buying one to any of my friends until this issue is resolved to the content of the customer. The Ioniq 5 is a really good EV, but if its so sensitive to any impact it is actually not roadworthy.
I never recommend that people buy an EV, despite driving a Model Y myself. The industry is still in it's infancy. My $60k EV is worth only $35K one year later due to Elon's _price cuts_ and justifiable used car _battery fears._ Not to mention that supercharging degrades your battery and if you don't do 95% of your charging at home, it just isn't worth it.
@@eugeniustheodidactus8890
Same. I own a Nissan Leaf, and my recommendation to everyone is regular ICE or hybrid. And because of the state government here planning to charge per distance taxes for battery EVs and plug in hybrids soon, I also make sure to recommend fuel-only hybrids, not plug ins.
Edit: we do 100% of charging at home... That's why an EV made sense for us. Many short trips, it's parked at home 90% of the day, and we've got solar. Anyone who can't charge off solar shouldn't even consider a battery EV.
@@tin2001 It only costs me only $30/mo to drive my Model Y _( @ 10k mi/year ),_ and I don't have solar in NC. I bought a Tesla because I own TSLA stock, which afforded me to splurge on the Model Y _and_ given where Tesla's market cap is going by 2030, money will not be a concern for me when it comes time to replace the Y. _( ...getting $18k for my 10 year old Honda Accord played a big factor in this purchase. )_
I certainly would never have spent so much on an EV if I couldn't easily write a check for it and didn't have home charging.
EV battery life will destroy the value of used EVs and rightfully so, which makes them a shitty investment. While I baby my EV's battery... not everyone does.
_( Recently, I bought an eToy on eBay. The seller stupidly topped off the battery for me prior to shipping..... thus, I have no doubt that my $1000 used OneWheel's battery life won't be a long one! )_ Cheers 👍
A friend of mine had a Toyota minivan, which when going on vacation, he would tow a small luggage trailer behind. When the trailer lights stopped working, and he tested the trailer lights as ok on another vehicle, he took the van to the Toyota dealership for a repair quote. They quoted him $500 for an entirely new wire harness for the vehicle wiring going to the trailer socket on the vehicle. As I had experience with vehicle electrics, he asked me to take a look. Initially, when I had my first gander, I was taken aback. This was a newer vehicle with L.E.D. tail lights, so instead of traditional wiring going to each tail light at the rear, it had control modules that switched things on at the relevant places and times. So I tracked back from the trailer socket, and low and behold, there was also a control module for that, that plugged in via oem connectors to the tail light modules. This trailer module had a main input power feed, which ran to the front of the car, and connected directly to the battery. And there, at this connection to the battery, was an inline fuse holder, which upon inspection had a blown fuse. We replaced the fuse, and connected the trailer, and all was good. Till this day no more issues. So a Toyota dealer wanted to charge $500 to replace a blown fuse? Either they are a bunch of thieves, or completely incompetent, as a handyman who last worked in the automotive trade more than 20+ years ago could fix something they could not, with all their latest tools and training.
A friend ordered an Ionic I think like 18 months ago and still has no idea when it's actually coming. I'm gonna show him this and maybe he'll finally back out of that shit. This is insane.
With an items being as costly and delicate in a non-delicate environment as this, the fact it would be so stupidly expensive to repair makes it a non-viable product. It sounds like this is a prodcut case of "you are bad and should feel bad"
Product viability is a matter of whether it can be sold, not whether it is actually useful or needed. And making things durable is bad for the bottom line, so don't expect that to change any time soon. Your best bet is to stop buying products like this and pray the average person doesn't drag you off the cliff with them.
@@cosmic_gate476 I suppose you are right, when it comes to things as cheap as cars, trains, planes and military hardware, we can just order another one in the post for little to no cost... Only one fo those has no blantant public examples of said same treatment, another is having come remedialy mesaures taken, though not for the public, Ill eave to guess which. In and case, if everyone does it, there is no "Just don't buy it"
It's like saying do not buy a phone that has a locked OS, it's computer that relays sound of visuals, and not an alien piece of hardware...
It's the persuit of an infinite growth and efficiency increases market model in a universe in which neither infinity exists. Bad behaviour is encouraged by it's the nature, it was not always this way, once upon a time market saturation was recognized and acknowledged, seemingly at least.
Love to hear you talking about more selfhosted stuff! The only way to actually own any of the systems and the data that runs your life is to actually OWN it. Remember y'all, the cloud is just somebody elses computer, you can own a computer too!
My Subaru dealer, whom for the most part have been awesome about helping me repair and maintain my 98’ Subaru Legacy Outback, outright refused to rebuild or replace my exhaust system from the manifold back, for any amount of money. Midas in Rutland, reconstructed it, to it’s whacky original design specs, from the original blueprints, and used thicker higher quality steel than what came stock, and they did it within 8 hours of dropping it off, for 777 dollars, in less than 12 hours notice. Sometimes ya gotta rely on the random place to do yah better than the supposedly certified qualified people. Can’t wait till the next tune up, or inspection, so the quality of workmanship Midas did, puts them to shame.
You seem happy. I'm glad you can cover frustrating topics and maintain a good attitude
i really needed to know this as an insurance adjuster and now understand why many dealerships are not within insurance repair shop networks. I know insurance is pretty scammy in itself, but I've seen small businesses in network cause a lot less drama for repairs than out of network dealerships that try to siphon money for OEM parts from insurance companies when insurance mainly covers aftermarket and the OEM cost difference has to be siphoned from the customer instead (always check the fine print on your policy document).
I don't drive, but I am truly appreciating these auto repair videos!
I almost locked in on an Ionic 5 or EV6 but decided to wait until 2024. After Hyundai's response to this case and others in Canada I am reshuffling my EV preferences and priorities. Shit happens and if scratches to the battery shield is enough to void the battery that's too great of a risk to take.
You’re an idiot if you buy an EV and deserve to lose every penny that you put in it. 💸💸💸 FJB 🖕🇨🇳
This is exactly what keeps me from buying an EV or even a new vehicle in general.
As i am a service technician myself repairing and maintaining all kind ov HVAC, Wall hung Boilers etc. i have one rule for dealing with my customers. To treat my customers the way i would like to be treated. - Great concept i got to tell you !