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Diorite vase: 2 years of blood, sweat and hate | Experiment results
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2024
- Is it possible to make a vase from an extremely hard stone using ancient Egyptian technology? No metal: just stone, bone, wood, sand and a lot of persistence. No one has done this in the last couple of thousand years.
The project started in August 2020 and lasted more than two years. The funds were collected through crowdfunding on the Planeta.ru site. We thank everyone who helped the experiment take place! Reconstructors Olga and Yulia spent 5 days a week hammering, chopping, sawing, drilling and polishing diorite in a small workshop in Kemerovo, under the watchful gaze of two webcams broadcasting online.
💀 Want more experiments? Support our projects:
/ antropogenez_world
Experiment results:
Total duration: 790 days (546 work days)
Initial weight of diorite piece: 15.36 kg
Workpiece weight after cracking: 3.78 kg
Final weigh of the vase: 1.12 kg
Maximum length of diorite piece: 42 cm
Final height of the vase: 15 cm
3D models of vases made during three experiments: disk.yandex.ru...
We thank Pavel Krasnov for the 3D scans.
Characteristics of the 3D scan of the vase:
- Deviations from the circle in three sections perpendicular to the axis of the vase, within ~0.3..0.4 mm.
- The angle between the axis and the plane of the upper end is ~89.92 degrees.
- Deviation from the flatness of the upper end is within ~0.12 mm.
The measurements using Geomagic Design X software were carried out by Alexey Pimenov, a specialist in 3D measuring systems.
Materials consumed:
Sand: 6 bags (various fractions)
Tar: 7 kg (part was unusable)
Leather: 2 halves of cow hide
Cow bones: 2 metatarsal, 2 unidentified
Sandstone: ≈ 300 kg
Gravel: under 200 kg
Granite: 2 small pieces
Dolerite: 1 piece
Desna flint: ~50 splits
Zaraysk flint: ~30 splits
40+ hammers (gravel, leather, wood)
Maple 1.5-4 cm thick - 100+ sticks
Birch (small piece)
Rope: sisal, jute, flax twine (several meters long, tried for sawing)
Experimenters:
Olga Vdovina,
Yulia Gukasova
Overall management:
Georgy Sokolov, Alexander Sokolov
Non-stop streaming:
Vitaly Krauss, Scientific Video Laboratory @ScienceVideoLab
Video made by:
Text by Alexander Sokolov
Filming by Ksenia Ablez
Editing by Vitaly Krauss and Ksenia Ablez
English translation and voiceover by Dmitry Oliferovich
Cover by Irina Galenkova
Music by @Senmuth
We would like to thank:
Maksim Lebedev, Aleksander Ocherednoi, Ivan Semyan, Sergey Krivoplyasov, Oleg Kurgliakov, Nikolai Vasyutin, Pavel Selivanov, Liubava Popova, Lilya Sabirova, Marisha Erina, Kseniya Ablez, Evgeniya Anokhina, Irina Reshetova, Valery Senmuth, Pavel Krasnov, Borislav Popov, Stanislav Drobyshevsky, Alexey Vodovozov, Pavel Podkosov.
Special thanks to Tatyana Andreeva.
Previous experiments by Olga Vdovina:
Vase made of marble breccia, using copper tools: • Making a stone vase wi...
Vase made of marble breccia, in the shape of a bird, without the use of copper tools: • Mysterious Ancient Art...
Triangular angle in granite - with primitive tools: • Trihedral inner corner...
Additional materials:
Measurement of ancient Egyptian vases from the collection of the Pushkin Museum:
• Что внутри у ваз Древн...
Our patrons: Decomposing Cake, towage, Caroline L-B, Artus Sharpe, Subtle Salmon, Matvey Shishov
================================
Legal support: CTL Law Office
© ANTROPOGENEZ.RU, Scientists Against Myths, 2020-2024
Contact: g_souris@mail.ru
#history #artifacts #ooparts
3D models of vases made during three experiments: disk.yandex.ru/d/71rKssBQLPEZcw
We thank Pavel Krasnov for the 3D scans.
🗿 Want to support our fight against pseudoscience? Then consider becoming a patron: www.patreon.com/join/antropogenez_world
Detailed article by Oleg Kruglyakov about experiments in making stone vases: vk.com/@chtomoglidrevnie-brekchiya-ot-nakada-i-i-2018-goda
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What was the precision of these vases compared with the OG vase? 🤡
I work in ceramics, today i came back from my studio being frustrated about how steps in my projects can go wrong and how long everything takes. This video puts things in perspective.
lol surely.
Being able to cement your workstation into place is a big first step that they just so happen to not mention😂 seems a little bit dishonest to me
Imagine how much faster you could have done this if your parents and grandparents were stonemasons and had perfected techniques
Exactly. Having an entire industry around it as well. These guys had to not only brainstorm how to make the equipment but also how use it. Doing all of that from scratch is pretty insane.
and if you had a team taking care of all the tool manufacturing
and working shifts round the clock
That's a pretty good compliment for these people in the video.
I'd like to see how they made the Schist disc.
Congratulations on such a long and difficult project. I have suggestions for other experiments (hopefully easier and cheaper) - let me know if you’d like to discuss further.
I think for the next project they should build the great pyramid 😂
I would like to see two lathe pivot points carved out of a single solid stone first ( even using modern methods to save time or a in natural stone outcropping) Then some real precision vases could be achieved.
@@OMFGimontheinternet will you be paying for it? Lmao
Olga! You did it! Amazing! Definitely took a lot of help and a lot of effort, but you did it! Congratulations! I know you must be thankful to be done!
You and your team just did something that hasnt been done in many lifetimes! You should all be proud of this accomplishment!
Well done!
Thanks!
Where’s the precision?? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence… yall need to scan this and see if it’s as precise as original ones. Making a case proves nothing🤣🤣
Just after the 17 min point of the video they showed the comparison they did with the museum pieces.
I guess you bailed out of the video b4 then because of your armchair bias
@@stephenhealey5528 yeah it was nowhere as accurate
@@manbearpig710First, people said it isn’t even possible to carve into diorite or get a right angle or a circle, then they said it’s not possible to make a vase, she keeps proving these speculations wrong, one after another. Now it has to be precise on the first try? She isn’t an ancient stone mason with generations of knowledge and industry. She’s just proving that it can be done by humans with simple tech, no need for lasers.
Next you’ll say it doesn’t count unless she does the whole thing again by candlelight wearing a loincloth!
I hope your vase ends up in a museum alongside historical artifacts, as well as an explanation of the experiment.
since Ben and Dunn popularised the vases the price went up alot. What is the price?
Just purely happy to get to see this done. I work with stone and knew this to be possible and just a matter of time and effort! Great work from the crafters and the team to get all the funds and materials needed. I am sure that if you would have had the optimal materials and unlimited funds, you would have made a few of these in this time you managed to make this!
I bow my head and tip my hat for you all!
Thanks!
This is awesome! So nice to see the final result, as well as all the effort/processes/techniques you all put into making this vase a reality.
Well done.
It's probably also worth noting that people making these sorts of things a couple thousand years ago were possibly lifetime craftspeople who had practiced a learned technique for years and years.
They weren't learning on the fly about how these processes function
There is also a survival bias for the archaeological remains. Poorly crafted items are probably less likely to stand the test of time than well crafted items.
Not "possibly". They were as you alluded to representative of "professional guilds" who as indicated learned their trade starting when they were young and improved upon it over time = to pass that along to the next generation. After a few generations that level of expertise would become highly adept so long as the information is not lost and resources to perform the craft remain.
Moral: the Egyptian civilization existed = for 3 millennia. While it had its' ups & downs undergoing periods of plenty and want = demand for such objects was continuous. Thus the same as today as long as someone desires a thing - someone will provide.
p.s. - as a historical aside. By the time of the Persian invasion of Egypt the renown of Egyptian stonemasons was such that Darius sent Egyptian masons to help build his new capital city of Persepolis. Enjoy your day.
in ancient times we know for a fact they used lathes with electricity with super fast spinning drill bits we know this because we can see the marks that the lathes theft behind. when u do make a vase the way u made it wont have those markings disproving the very thing u are trying to prove. but still it is cool to see u can make a similar vase with really hard tools and a a lot of elbow grease...
@@unraveling-the-truth lol. I'm sorry you've been lied to by charlatans, cons, and general all around grifters.
It's okay to admit that you got duped by neat sounding fantasy ideas.
@@unraveling-the-truth there is no such markings, and no that is not a fact thats is a lie
Brilliant result, I am so impressed!
The way you conducted the process, with everything carefully documented makes this an important experiment.
Congratulations to all involved - I really did not think this was possible 👍🏼
I won't believe anything until the mouse is proven to be an authentic ancient Egyptian mouse
SAM throws another pile of salt on the Woologist movement with actual documented science and experiments rather than biased speculation.
I'm not saying you are using insulting language here in your comment but I do wonder why do people use language that will isolate people that are also seeking the truth on these things? We know that in other industries this type of language has been used to harass good Scientists and other responsible people. I got my PhD in genetic/gene therapy in Organic Chemistry and I did not want to work in the Pharma industry because it's so incredibly corrupt, with documented gigantic fines for psychopathic practices. They are easily searchable on the internet. We also see other industries such as the finance industry in 2008 that was corrupt beyond belief. Why are people using language that castigates people that ask questions? It's bizarre to me. This is the language that corrupt or dominating people use to silence people that are trying to learn. Whenever someone does this it just sows even more distrust. I'm in a profession now where I love that people ask questions. “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard P. Feynman
Is your assumption that our mainstream view of history is absolutely correct and will never change? Or is it constantly changing and pretty much been rewritten the last 30 years? Because you seem to be trying to claim some ultimate truth in a field that can completely change over night. What makes you so certain you know what has happened and what hasn’t? Honestly curious
I mean it was a valiant attempt… but I’m curious as to how the predynatic Egyptians were able to cement their workstation in place to allow them to achieve even the slightest level of precision? That’s a massive part of why she was able to do what she did… and they don’t even mention that the whole work station is cemented in place😂
@@boagski Nooo absolutely not! This is the entire point of science! We're welcoming all new discoveries. On the other hand, your theory is suggesting that Ancient Humans we're not capable of being expert craftsmen. If your people actually come to us with actual scientific work, have it peer reviewed we will gladly look into it. As of right now, all they have is a misunderstanding of history and a story.
@@cleanpiecington2319 you wanted them to drill the floor of the workshop? Or to travel to egypt to bring back a lime stone block?
Probably should have polished it. Alternative history people are obsessed with the smoothness of artifacts--like they don't believe in manual sanding or something.
Same idea.
Polishing is not difficult, it just takes time.
@@nalinux However, a high speed is needed for a mirror like shine. Also the measurements they make, show how inaccurate the vase is. Give it to be CT scanned
@@user-rh4lo7rb2z High speed is not necessary.
I've polished a lot of things just by hand, even made of iron.
We have no idea where X vase comes from. Not even it's a real egyptian vase.
And no vase is polished like a mirror.
They just say "from a private collection".
Hpw do you explain the one that stands on end like a boiled egg spinning? @nalinux
Or the shist disk?
The amount of fanboys getting triggered by you guys doing the experiment was indeed glorious, especially since uncharted x was crying for people to replicate dynastic vessels.
Yeah he’s looking for precision I’m not seeing it here. All of us on the alternative side said u CAN make these by hand but u can’t get the precise measurements the real ones have… yall don’t pay attention at all…. Keep up
Unchartedx is looking for a tolerance of at least 5000 microns… is it here, in this vase? No it’s not. Does it look turned on a lathe? No it does not.
@@manbearpig710 You must be new to the grift of lost high tech. I do remember quite vividly when people were arguing the Egyptians couldn't work granite and diorite, then it changed to - they surely can't make stone vessels, now it changed to - we never denied they can't make vessels.
It's a constant movement of goal posts, typical of the fringe community.
In all honesty ask yourself this, would it be a surprise if the first experiment in diorite was not as good as the best diorite vessel from the entire Egyptian history?
@@MrAchile13 you must be new to mainstream… see I can do the same thing. I used to be mainstream until the cases came out cuz I’m a cnc operator. Plz go to school for CNC then come back and talk to me friend
@@MrAchile13 also no surprise at all besides the scans that show it was made on a lathe lol or parts of it were. Pretty sure Egyptians didn’t have the wheel. See mainstream is wrong they had the wheel obviously
If Pharaohs could be resurrected, and shown what you have sacrificed and accomplished, they would bow to you in humility.
From Egypt, I bow to you.
lol no
Amazing work, thank you so much for your hard work and showing what can be done with enough time and motivation!
Experimental archeology is awesome!
Are there any metrology results about the accuracy and tolerance on the vase? The incredible accuracy was the most interesting point in measuring the authentic vases.
The issue is that there are objects which are being claimed as authentic and which have certain measurements which are then used to make other claims.
Accuracy is relative really. If you measure an Egyptian vase thousands of years after the fact based upon a measurement system unknown to the Egyptian craftsmen = what have you supposedly proven - beyond a certain object has certain dimensions.
Have you proven the craftsman sought to arrive at that dimensional outcome - no. Have you linked your measurements to any specific known technique reflected by the historical record - no. Then all you have achieved is to measure a vase = and make a lot of conjecture-based declarations....... - think about it.
Ben's argument is premised upon a flawed approach. It is as alluded to by others nothing more than an incredulity-based argument premised upon flawed assumptions for his part. It is perfectly plausible for a master craftsmen to fashion an object which later reveals to have certain dimensions then unknown to the craftsman who worked based upon aesthetics rather than achieving specific dimensional outcomes. This means whatever the dimensions is what they are = that being happenstance.
@@varyolla435 What? Accuracy is relative? What?.... What? Measure system have nothing to do with precision of an item.
@@forrfuun8470 Incapable of reading then I see....... Typical of course for the Ben fanboy club.
p.s. - have Ben turn over his vase = to an outside independent evaluator....... Then you can at least say the measurements were done properly - though you will still have the problem I noted.
Moral: measuring a vase only gives you = measurements....... - not supposed origin or not.
@@varyolla435 What ? This is response to me? Dude you resoning is floved. You conflicting precision with measurement type. And completely misunderstood Ben's and other arguments. I reposnded to you absurd claim and you projecting crazy shit on me. Wow.
Incredible! Very well done, thank you for showing the truth. 👍👍
Wellcome!
Awesome
You guys should send that vase to Christopher Dunn and Ben van Kerkwyk so they can analyze it and compare with their expensive metrological tools. And if they don't show a comparison, you can call it a win and expose them as frauds!
AMAZING! I applaud you! 👏👏👏Such a monumental task.
As for something i would like to see next, as you asked;
A polygonal masonry experiment, in the way they did at places like Sacsayhuaman, with the techniques Vincent Lee proposes. Of course i wouldn't expect a full scale experiment, (for the sake that it would take so many hours and human lives last only so long) but maybe on a small scale to prove the concept. That would be wildly interesting!
Great suggestion. I'd love to see that too.
Nice work. Are you planning on measuring the accuracy of this vase with lazer scanner tech like unchartedX did? Those comparisons would really be needed to compare and measure as accurately as they did.
Yes! 3D models of vases made during three experiments: disk.yandex.ru/d/71rKssBQLPEZcw
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths How does this vase compare in accuracy with the Unchartered X one ? How close are the close in accuracy and precision ?
Congratulations to all involved, especially the two lady artists!
Thanks
I read dorito vase and I'm not proud of it
Doritos are triangles...thus clearly lost ancient high technology....it's understandable
There's no way they could make Doritos with copper chisels! They must come from Atlantis!
Once you pop you cant stop.
Absolutely fantastic piece of experimental archeology. I'm stunned at the dedication and commitment needed to undertake and complete the work. Congratulations!
Thanks!
A large thank you! Amazing work. Can't wait to share this video 😊
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise that the diorite cracked in half. A larger vase might have taken much longer to finish? Thank you for doing this!
thank you for conducting such important expiraments!
Wellcome!
Congratulations to this team of artists/researchers. I, for one, never doubted you!
I hope somebody shows this to Joe Rogan, lol.
To upset a normal person, tell them a lie.
To upset a LAHT person, tell them the truth.
True lol
😂 great comment 👍
What is LAHT?
@@Jensen1234 "Lost Ancient Hyper-Technology" IIRC
Like it or not, this is how it is done. I mean the process of testing hypotheses and experimenting with materials and methods. The fact that a drill made of bone or antler along with a sand slurry containing quartz, corundum, etc. can bore a hole in granite, is something I never would have thought. Thanks SAM!!!
Thank you so much for all of the wonderful research and dedication! We have promoted your channel in our videos and will continue to follow your wonderful reaearch ❤
Wellcome!
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful! A true service to humanity to dispell ignorance of the past.
Incredible 🙌! What great dedication, patience and skill the 2 artisans had! And still, this is just guesswork to show how you don't need metal or modern tools to work diorite. The original craftspeople probably had all sorts of lost skills that we may never uncover, plus a greater workforce too. They may have been able to make the same vase in about a year or even less. But your experiment has shown what IS possible and the results are amazing!
Amazing!!! I thought about how this experiment was going just today!
Oh look! The smoking gun destroying the lost high technology nonsense! 😂 good job guys. That's amazing.
Hardly - have you actually seen some of those statues? the sheer perfection of facial features both in detail and symmetry and don't forget the size of them too where imperfections would show up.
How about the vases where the material is so thin you can shine a light through it?
Please explain the saw cut that went off line by several inches - was it just a really fast chiseller? Striations on surfaces obviously caused by a circular saw of some kind.
Flinders Petrie documented all of this before CZcamsrs saw a revenue stream.
I could go on and on but it's probably pointless.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 Craftsmanship is like magic to some people. The vases that are transparent have to do with the type of stone and power of the light lol.
I know exactly the nonsense you're talking about. Nevertheless, SGD made a dish of *granite* so thin it was transparent enough to see light through it. You need to stop drinking the woo-woo kool-aid bud.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 The bunk argument about the striated lines has been debunked by SGD as well. I reckon you'd get a lot out of the documentary Ancient Presence did. It was about the Serapeum but they showcase SGD and this channels experiments.
You also don't use a chisel to cut lines like that. Use some common sense lol. You'd use a saw.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 SGD also made a *Granite* dish so thin you can see light shine through it. No woo-woo magical nonsense required.
Many of the pseudoscience narratives also talk about stones with natural transparency. Moot point.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 I think my comment got deleted.
Craftsmanship is like magic to some people. Symmetry is easier than realism. Simple fact.
I'm an avid fan of ancient tech and architecture. Your work is very interesting. TY 😊😊😊
These experiments are EXTREMELY valuable. Good job.
Well done, you have proven our ancestors were More than capable of working with stone.
Personally I already knew they did because my culture still occasionally uses some of the techniques you've used, but it's good that you did this experiment to prove it.
Important point to remember. Whatever the time factor involved in this demonstration is reflects the work = of 2 artisans - who did everything themselves. Now imagine ancient Egyptian artisans working - not individually = but in groups.
Moral: the Egyptian society was organized and contained what we today call = "guilds." So whereas these women did everything themselves there was probably a workshop in ancient Egypt containing multiple people doing various tasks.
So say the "apprentices" would be busy fabricating the tools perhaps from stone - or obtaining bronze tools from some local supplier - as the master craftsman focused upon their work. What we see in ancient Egypt would not be the work of some rando in a mud hut working alone.
Egyptologists have in places excavated what showed to be = multi-room structures dedicated to making things - jewelry as an example. This video shows what 1 or 2 dedicated people could accomplish with the time and resources = now think about an entire civilization at work........ Enjoy your day folks.
Doesn’t discredit they were using different technics or methods to achieve these masterpieces that take almost a year to do 1. There is thousands sitting around in Egypt that blow this one away. They were either professional at what they were doing and these people are juveniles or they were able to make them from a method we are unaware of. I personally do not see groups of people 6,000 years ago sitting around day and night to make one single piece lol. And then repeat it again and again and again.
@@MichaelPK03 It does not matter what you "do not see". All that matters = is what was. Ergo there is historical evidence to indicate that the Pharaohs and temples - and likely others - employed professional castes of craftsmen.
So these people were not just "sitting around" = they were paid to do exactly this. They were the equivalent of "salary workers" who received as payment food and a place to live and who could then focus only the job at hand,.
please make sure to do precise measurements to check if your vase actually is as precise as the measured pre-dynastic Egyptian vases
in my opinion, why it does look somewhat alike your vase does not infact hold exact wall thickness all the way around or display see trough properties from being this enough to do so.
all in all while this is somewhat cool it does not conclusively prove anything, if anything it proves you cannot make vases and other stuff as found from ancient egypt by hand
What vases were measured as you indicate?
This was there first try. Give them generations of knowledge, a lifetime of working the craft, that good good Pharoah money, and about a hundred failed vases and a few would be perfect. Multiple this by a hundred workers and there you go.
@@Michael-ex1rz nooooooo da aliumz did it in preflood times
I was totally buying into the ancient advanced tech and I'm a physics major. It's waaaay cooler to think this was done by hand. That's real magic
What a great experiment. Thanks for publishing this.
Wellcome
Magnificent work! Too bad there always will be some who will srceam 'aliens' and other stupidity of that scale, despite thousands of hours of the hard work put in this incredible experiment. Once again, magnificent work!
Thanks!
The sad truth is, no amount of evidence will convince those people. They're beyond reasoning. Still, what you're doing is great.
If it weren't for "those people", then this would not have happened
@@davidcryer2226 Maybe we wouldn't have this particular video but we'd still asked the same questions and figured out the answers. I could live without this video if it meant those nutjobs didn't get Netflix specials.
@@CASTSTONE No one was interested in this testing until people like Ben made claims that it was impossible to make without "high-tech". No one would have been funding without the allure of proving him wrong.
Even the origins of things like double-blind testing have their origin in testing mesmerism and homeopathy. As much as you want to rubbish it, real advances are made because of the existence of "pseudoscience"
As a nut job myself and thanks to this video I am now rethinking how the ancients made these. Never stop learning. @@CASTSTONE
@@davidcryer2226 So what, this vase didn't need to be made, anybody with a brain realizes that if you can cut a tiny bit of dorite then you can cut a lot, you don't need to actually do it to know it is possible if you have somewhat of a brain. But that is not the world we are living in, unfortunately.
Its fucking ridiculous that these people think you could possibly replicate the work of people who dedicated their lives to the craft. This wasnt the work of some person in a sand dune. they we're master craftsmen.
Very well done. Love the content.
They won't be convinced even if you built a whole bloody pyramid
Because they can't
The Sabu disk!
I suspect its been carved as a plug to make a milti piece mould for making a part for a simple rope spinning machine...would be a quick project shist not being so hard to carve...I love what you do. very important for humanity debunking conmen. thanks
Excellent. Thank you for this video.
Wellcome!
Well, it is over right? I expect mass retraction/apology videos from all the ancient technologists any time now.
gotta be kidding right...🤣🤣🤣 Their "measurements" were done with a pencil case they took from Olgas 8 year old daughter.. a god damn green ruler and some tweezer thing with tape on it. Not a single parameter that they measured was applied to Uncharded x vase. Not one lol. "side diameter with handles" Bogus arbitrary measurements that don't mean anything. If someone forged a toyota door in a fire and hammered it out in their garage does that mean toyota makes their doors in a fire with hammer in their garage? Lidar scan that thing, its mangled 100000000 % and has nothing in common with the vases scanned. Poor woman, ground that thing for years. Fucking madness. The first vase in human history that was made this way. 🤣🤣🤣
@@Kitties-of-Doom Cope harder loser.
@@Kitties-of-Doomseems to really hurt to get your beliefs crushed ;) coping hard
@@postholer . All you need is some random numbers written out. And the conclusion at the end. "we did it! we debunked it!" Science for the mentally challenged. 🤣🤣🤣
@@Kitties-of-Doom still more convincing than pointing at a rock and going like "I can't imagine how they did that, so therefor magic".
Very nice. I appreciate the amount of documentation you have
You are doing a really important job, thank you.
Thanks a lot for this long work , very appreciated
Congratulations 🎉 im really impressed 👏👏👏
Can you show the interior of the vase? Is this vase just a straight drill hole inside? The thing that amazes me about the ancient examples is the complex interior shape, contouring exactly the outer dimensions. I find it a bit odd you don't show the inside which is clearly the most astounding effect of the ancient vessels. Thanks
Why would that be the case......... The purpose of the demonstration was to show the tools/techniques employed by ancient peoples like the Egyptians worked. The aesthetic quality of what is produced however is a subjective variable as it depends upon the time and resources expended for the project as well as the relative skill level of the craftsman.
Suffice to say the Egyptian craftsmen probably started as children creating these types of things so that for some by the time they were adults they would be viewed as _"master craftsmen"_ not unlike today.
p.s. - consider this. If you wish to make a vase with a given shape you can approach it two ways. You can first create the outside shape and try to hollow that out. Doing this however risks fracture if your interior is intended to represent thin walls.
The alternative would be to first core out what will become a vase. That way your block material stabilizes the interior shape reducing the chances of it fracturing. Then you can carefully remove material from the outside until you obtain your desired shape = and polish that to final thickness/aesthetics.
This is likely the way the Egyptians did it. They removed "some" stone to obtain a semblance of the final shape while leaving enough to core out the interior without fracturing it = to then work on finalizing the exterior shape around that core.
@@varyolla435 okay shill
@@pondlakes Yet what am I = supposedly shilling...... Stick to your video games kid. 🤭
In between catching fish, grinding grain, raising children and turning out diorite vases to order, women have carried humanity well it seems ;) Thank you all and especially Olga and Yulia for tenacity and completion. This is one excellent video and not one alien in sight!
I think it's important for perspective to note that in ancient times Egyptian stone masons WERE using cutting edge technology. Previously diorite vases were an impossibility! Putting in a lot of time and effort into making the previously impossible....possible would be a profitable venture. I suspect they could have made one of these in 6 months but of course with a team of people each handling multiple stages the production times would improve. The profits would flow and all the masters of their craft would be happy to spend the time and effort on such things.
I have an idea about next experiment ... great pyramid :P ... :D
Are you financing the project?
@@emilspec1227 no, but I will give mental support
the way youve just bored a hole in the top is just hialrious, the actual vases follow the contour of the vase. Clearly those walls arent as thin as the others and no where near as accurate.
You don't seem to fully comprehend the topic.
Actually the vases come in all sorts of thicknesses. The claim tested here, which was once a very vocal claim, was that you can't sculpt diorite without diamond. That has been proven false.
The amount of work you guys did just to explain to dumb people something is a bit sad... But glorious ! You actively fight against pseudo-science. That's noble. Thank you !!
Wellcome!
Fantastic work! 👏👏👏 I first came across one of these vases in the Archeological Museum in Athens and was completely mesmerized! When I asked the museum’s guard “how?”, she just said, “we’re not sure”.
Lately I’ve been binging the videos from UnchartedX (which are quite entertaining) but doesn’t really answer any questions, and doesn’t seem to be particularly scientific.
Thanks for clearing my mind!
Fantastic work and collaboration guys!
THANK YOU! I can now simply direct people to this video instead of me hopelessly trying to explain that no late is needed, it's simply human determination.
Just popped in my feed.
Incredible work.
Please keep doing what you are doing!
This is super impressive. Long ago people passed down the knowledge of how to do this stuff. You had to reinvent it. Well done. Your tools and machinery is amazing.
This is incredible work.
The goal post will always be moved and more excuses from the LAHT crowd will follow.
Outstanding! Doubting and minimizing the intelligence and problem solving abilities of our ancesters shows the ignorance of the observer!
God that thing hurts my eyes… you couldn’t even polish it? Lol
I think it would be a better technique to FIRST drill the hole through the block, as the block is then at its strongest and easiest to keep stable, and if it breaks or imperfections are noted within, it is probably always going to break or be unusable. Then, with the hole drilled, fill it with a wooden shaft and glue it in place throughout providing support to the piece. Then turn it on the lathe as you did horizontally using the axil as the center point.
I dont know if that is how they did it, but with my experience in carpentry, that is how i would do it. This way digging the shaft hole isn't endangered by already thin walls from cutting vase shape, the glued-in shaft supports the stone around the delicate parts when being reduced to the vase size, and using the shaft as the center helps with gaining symmetry when lathing the vase.
🎯 Better to remove some exterior material so as to achieve a rough outline of what you want to then core out the center. That way as you say the thicker walls will stabilize the block allowing you to remove material from the center with less chance of cracking the walls.
Then you can carefully remove material to form the final wall dimensions - your interior already having been formed.
You guys are awesome - glad to see the channel growing.
another fine piece of experimental archeology.you guys rock-pun intended 😀
Unfortunately, I doubt this will change many minds at this point. Detractors will simply say the results are not 'precise' enough. They find it easier to believe that there were high tech power tools provided by Atlantis rather than a thriving industry of highly skilled craftsman. It's insane but that's humanity for you.
Thank you so much for this labor, that’s real science. The vase is absolutely beautiful. Will support the next experiment. Is there a merch store to support in the meantime?
Great work guys!
This was an impressive experiment. I was really interested in the turning machines you had to create. Also I wanted to know if you compared the mathematical maps shown on the real Egyptian vases with the vase you crafted? I am referring to the study made by unsigned io showing the golden number, sphere, radians and triangles.
Two years and two months for a master craftswomen to create one small vase, amazing. I wonder what knowledge the crafters from 4000+ years ago would think of her work, it is fascinating to think about how much time they committed to the hundreds if not thousands of stone vases we have found, they must have had very well perfected techniques to do so.
Hi, this is a really interesting and impressive experiment, and I love the finished product! I have a question about ancient stone carving though. I'm trying to replicate carving granite with flint. I am using a wooden mallet and have tried numerous techniques, such as striking with different strengths, holding the flint at different angles, and using different flint shapes, but no matter what I try, I can't seem to carve the stone without the flint completely shattering. Do you have any tips on how to successfully carve granite with flint? Also, have you tried using other stones such as dolerite to make chisels? I don't have any dolerite and would love to see if a dolerite chisel would cut granite, and if so, how effectively it would work compared to flint.
Maybe you are too impatient and work with too much force. I think with granite it is not so much cutting away, as it is slowly pulverizing a fraction of a millimeter at a time. At least, that is what it looked like when I saw a video of guys making a granite temple in India. They were using metal tools, but they were beating super softly, you didn't see them chipping away rock with every stroke.
Hey you should make one in granite now, combine it with a real granite vase and have ben from unchartedX scan it. see if he can tell the difference.
Amazing!
Exciting. You should scan it and publish the stl file for all to see. That's the only thing missing. Considering all that work, an actual scan to make a direct comparison would be the last obvious step.
I would like you to make a primitive lathe out of a solid piece of stone to hold the work firm. Then make a vase using flint and arsenic bronze tube drills
This is very misleading. The aspect of the vases that is still not explained is the geometric continuity of the surfaces. I don't think anyone argued the dimensions could not be replicated by hand.
You are starting with the assumption that UnchartedX has vases that should be considered as a reference point for any further discussion of this topic. He has claims and needs to frame his claims against the reference of authentic artifacts. This channel showed that it is possible to make a vase with simple tools and methods by self taught individuals.
@@Eyes_Open if anything they proved that replicating the continuity is not possible by hand. Everyone already knew you could make a vase like this by hand, the whole experiment is a strawman.
@@mikestaub The original claims were that everything was impossible. Then the fraudulent claims had to be walked back because they were so obviously false. Now the claim has changed to make people think that there are objects with mystical level precision which are impossible to recreate with known methods. No proof of authenticity, no proof of the negative claim of impossibility. This channel easily shows otherwise.
@@mikestaubSo you're saying that if you can't recreate the statue of David then Michaelangelo never existed?
@@NinjaMonkeyPrime If his sculptures also had G2 Continuity then yes I would say it was also machined. Humans simply cannot manually carve that level of accuracy with our nervous systems, it requires precision machines.
Amazing work and dedication, cool stuff
Why didn't you use copper and high-hardness abrasive? We know the Egyptians used both to make the vases, I'm sure you could've gotten better results, and certainly far easier.
LAHT "Theorists:" "There's no way they could have made that with copper chisels!
Scientists Against Myths: "So?"
😜
I mean it is impressive they managed to do it with no metal whatsoever! But I just wish they had used copper and perhaps gotten .01 accuracy, although sadly even that wouldn't convince the true believers...
1-.3mm deviation is literally 1000x less precise than some of Matt’s vases.
You are seriously trying to compare the work of self taught artisans to the work of masters from a civilization who had generations of stoneworking experience? Matt could also be purchasing modern vases for all he knows.
@@Eyes_Open How ignorant do you have to be to think that you can achieve those tolerances by hand.
@@mementomori4972 It is not difficult to turn tools in circles. Are you supporting the modern fakes idea or the lost technology idea? Lots of numbers being thrown about by fans of the social media channels who profess a mystery.
Impressive work. The unexplained aspects of the predynastic vase Uncharted scanned is that all radii can be collapsed to a single equation [R(n) = (sqrt (6)/2)^n] across twelve powers, the collinearity of the holes, alignment of separated planes (e.g. top and bottom), etc... Without going through the final step of structured light scanning and finding the deviation between primitive shapes and this final vase there's no conclusion to be drawn, other than it's possible to make a granite vase with primitive tools if given enough time. I'd be grateful if someone can provide the link for the 3D models referenced at the very end of the video, I'll happily download them and check these measurements for myself in Fusion 360 (and what instrument was used to scan them?)
He's playing math games. Night Scarab does a good job debunking much of Ben's claims.
Really impressive
Awesome video
Another thing you guys might try out. The 12 angle stone in Cusco is also diorite. There's an excellent paper written on it called "On the reddish, glittery mud the Inca used for perfecting their stone masonry" I assume you might have already seen/read it.
It involves a special chemical treatment that might have been used. The author of the paper indicates experimental archeology should be performed. To be honest, I think he's on to something. Might be more than just the Inca. Definitely worth a shot. Do be careful though!
Fantastic work 👏 congrats to all, amazing effort 👌 just ignore the haters there any jealous and probably mentally challenged 😅 I can't wait to whatever ideas you come up with, I suppose a pyramid might be a little big 😅😅😅 anyway I loved the show I loved all your work thank you God Bless 🙏🙏🙏🦘
Awesome!
Just came across your video from 4 years ago, how the comments have changed. Well done. ❤
Awesome, the sad thing is that most of society looks down on manual labour .
We’re treated as low life by those Usless pen pushing , lazy ,talentless office fools drunk on sales and marketing corporate BS .
In fact it’s the total opposite .
We should be looking down at them .
as you make it clear older civilisations had time on their hands and not much else to do .
Thank you for sharing this example of people dedicated to their passion in life . ❤
But let’s not forget the individuals that designed the modern lathe, cnc milling machinery, 3D printers, the welders , fabricators, joiners , brick layers etc etc tha made everything in this world today possible .
Creative people created our modern world. 👍🇬🇧
congratulations for your efforts and the end result... But honestly... its somewhat far from the perfect results we see in some of the ancient ones... good try though
What was the purpose here?? Answer: to demonstrate that a craftsman using tools and techniques reflected in the historical/archeological record could work stone to generate an Egyptian style vase. They achieved their purpose.
As an aside. While artisans it is unlikely they have spent their years fashioning Egyptian style crafts - and an ancient Egyptian craftsman would have. That does not even account for the skill of say what we might term as _"a master craftsman."_
Here is an example. Michelangelo was clearly a master Renaissance period craftsman. He created both the Pieta as well as the Tondo Pitti. Yet the former is a visual masterpiece whereas the other was a so-so piece of work = why??? The Pieta was created on commission for a wealthy cardinal's tomb whereas the other was a quickie piece he created = to sell.
Moral: then as now = you got what you paid for. We see a variety of aesthetic quality - not because of a particular technology per se. Rather because a creation is a result of the relative skill level of the creator + the time and resources available to devote to the project.
Thus as a first attempt when they did everything themselves unlike in ancient Egypt where you would have guilds of craftsmen working together it was not a bad first try as you say.
This is absolutely brilliant, speaking as a fourth generation stonemason I do find the claims made by LAHT idiots somewhat of an insult to my trade. I will definitely be shoving this down their throats. Congratulations to everyone involved in this and especially to Olga, what a legend for taking this on.❤❤❤❤
Wow finally! I've been waiting for this for so long. Well done, this proves a lot. So so glad that you guys went as far as to measure the real thing and compare, and that the results were even more accurate! That's huge. Now the question is that did they really spend this much time on one item? Did they have lot more sophisticated setup? Maybe weighted drills operated by camels? Was this a mass production industry or was this very exclusive and expensive, made to order for the richest people that lived at the time?
This Still does not explain the tolerance of symmetry displayed with the vases that were examined in Damville, IL. Sure, it looks alright, but after being scanned by machinist instruments at high precision.
Let us continue to marvel and speculate without trying to belittle each other. That kind of behavior can turn a genius into a fool.
Well done. It was great to see the pen being used to find high and low spots. Working slowly with your hands and using simple jigs is something that people aren't used to doing in modern times and I don't think people understand the fine granular control that gives you.
Maybe I'm just in a bit of a dumb mood today, but other than the obvious explanation that they are modern forgeries, has anyone got any alternative explanations for the UnchartedX video? The whole thing sets off my B.S detector, but other than glossing over the provenance, and ignoring the uneven handles, they did for the most part seem to demonstrate unusually high tolerances. I have a hard time imagining anyone bothering whether ancient Egyptians or a factory in China. Not that I've paid all that much attention but I can say most store-brought stoneware I've looked, I can't recall the insides being all that precisely machined, seems a bit weird regardless of who did it, but then again parsimony and all that.
Oh no no no, wait until UnchartedX sees this, he's gonna lose his mind over this one.
He already knows he’s full of shit. Likely he ignores it completely and deletes comments or blocks people who mention any of it like he already does.
Most people want to know how accurate this vase is. The biggest puzzle for most people is, why did the accuracy of things decline over time. Most civilizations improve their technical abilities over time. This was not the case in Egypt. Their technical abilities went backwards. Why?
@@tinasimmonds6963 they went through two periods of total collapse lasting hundreds of years. Not hard to imagine why things changed. But most of what you hear from alt history guys is completely wrong. The vast majority of granite and diorite work comes from the new kingdom with iron tools. You don’t need iron, but you don’t need space lasers either.
Egyptian “accuracy” is not as good as Greek when it comes to statues and things also, yet for some reason no one asks how Greeks did it.
Definitely this couldn’t be the way the vast superior quality vases of III dynasty egyptian have been Made.
I am more convinced of that now than before.
Furthermore you used a lathe, which officially was invented in Egypt around 1300 bC, while the III Dynasty was at least 1300 years before than that (2600-2700 bC)
@@Eye_of_Horus You were almost convincing there until you see the statues with hieroglyphs of Rameses II scratched over the top of hieroglyphs in relief.
Still waiting for someone to explain the saw cut that went offline and the block was abandoned. That must have been one insanely fast mad chiseller.
Saying that the vase you made is superior because it’s a little thinner is laughable. When you compare the 2 vases it’s quite clear that the museum one is better. And thats after however many thousands of years. Clearly more technical, the curvature, the top lip and the fact that it’s much larger.
Good effort but sorry not convinced.
They did not say it was superior because it was a little thinner. They also clearly demonstrated the possibility of creating the objects with simple tools.
@@Eyes_Open 19:55 He literally say “in terms of ideal geometry, the resulting product is even slightly superior to the ancient sample”
I understand the point of the experiment but they are so steadfast in believing that the results showed definitively that this is how the ancients created these vases. Even though just looking at them you can clearly see that it does not compare.
They compare the wall thicknesses of both vases to show that their vase is thinner implying that that means it's better. Even though the ancient vase has a more consistent thickness. Also the fact that the ancient vase is larger, smoother and more detailed features (handles and top lip). And are we really supposed to believe that the hunter gatherers would have the resources to dedicate one or two people for 1-2 years to create one vase. I don't know who created these vases but they certainly had better technology than just sticks and stones to do so.
@@recklessnova9490 I know what they said. Your original comment did not accurately quote them. Why are you calling ancient Egyptians hunter gatherer? The vase experiment obviously shows that it is possible to create stone artifacts with simple tools and techniques. There is no valid argument against the demonstrated proof. Comparing with master level examples is a non-starter. Comparing with possible modern fakes is a waste of time.
@@Eyes_Open I say hunter gatherer because some of these vases have been found in predynastic burials so before time we think of as ancient Egypt. So for them to have been found in these graves either the people made them with very basic tools (sticks and stones maybe copper chisels) like the video is claiming. Someone dug the graves up from a more recent time and put them in the graves for some reason. Or they were made by people with more advanced technology.
Also not all of them can be modern fakes because some of them were discovered in the 1800s and have been sat in museums since then.
@@recklessnova9490 I would recommend watching the video called "Why did the egyptians make more stone vases in the old kingdom" from the World of Antiquity channel.
What a joke, thought Egypt didn't have the wheel 🤷
What do wheels have to do with stone vases............
p.s. - it does not matter if the Egyptians knew of wheels. What matters if you are speaking about heavy construction/transportation is = do they have the tech to make wheeled transport feasible. In the case of the pyramids = no - they did not.......
A wheel focuses all the weight above into a narrow area of ground. Further wheels and axles bear that weight - unlike a wide sled low to the ground which disperses the weight above over a wider area. Thus having wheels means nothing unless you also have = paved/hard-pack roads + iron or steel to reinforce your conveyance.
Wheels as far as Egypt do not appear until the period of the Hyksos invasion following the collapse of the Middle Kingdom. That is when you see references to war chariots and horses. Yet look at those chariots = lightweight flimsy wooden structures held together using leather straps. How much weight do you think they can carry??? The chariots in Tut's tomb - who lived 1,000 years after the time of the Giza Pyramids = can not bear much weight.