Why You Should Never Buy Cheap Tires
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2017
- Swapping Tires On My Honda S2000 Yields Incredible Results
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I swap the undersized, out of alignment, mismatched, cheap Fuzion VRI and HRI tires on my S2000 for all new Bridgestone RE-71R tires. To prove whether or not changing the tires makes a significant difference for my vehicle's handling, I analyze braking behavior (stopping time, distance, and peak g-forces), using the RaceLogic Vbox Sport (link above). The results are extremely impressive. While the Fuzion tires get worse with ever brake test, as they begin to heat up. The RE-71R tires, however, get better with every test. The difference in braking distance before and after the tire swap literally takes my car from behaving like a Cadillac Escalade, to an Alfa Romeo 4C. Quite the jump!
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Thanks for watching everyone! The important lesson here really is to do some research before buying new tires. Companies like Tire Rack, Consumer Reports, and many of the major auto journalist magazines post independent test data and cross-examine all kinds of different tires for braking, lateral grip, wet/dry testing, etc. Buying the most expensive thing on the shelf doesn't necessarily equate to the best tire. Best to look at what tires are available for the size you need, and try to dig up data to see what performs the best. I believe safety is worth the extra money spent, and if it prevents you from getting in a wreck you'll save time and money in the long run. Hope you're all having a great day! Consider following my other pages!
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Engineering Explained Would be interested to know the date code on the old tires.
Engineering Explained
You should do a follow-up video on lighter wheels and rotating weight
And if you can do a new flywheel video to that would be great
Great videos all of them, I really enjoy watching them, exspasaly when I can understand them lol
I have used chinese tires over my stock pirellis and liked them very much... Secondly, driving 101 never brake hard during a turn. Many cars will do this and is a no no when talking about performance driving. You basically take too much weight off the back causing loss of grip no matter the tire.
boo1086 this is why FWD is best track platform grip is always transferring to the powered wheels not away from it :)
Engineering Explained can you do long term test on the bridgestone tires? like every 5000 miles.
Cheap rubbers are the only reason why I exist
This is the BEST ANSWER !!! LOL
Upvote this comment to eternity plz (the top one btw)
So invest in good rubber to avoid accidents! 😂
Hercules Rockefeller lol ooooo priceless
hhahahhaahahahhahahaahhaahha baugaahaahah
Buy quality and you'll only cry once
lmao
"buy once, cry once"
I thought so but my pilot super sports only lasted like 17-18k miles
With cheap tires you might not be alive after a crash to cry.
Wow, that was a smooth one, “and because this is engineering explained, I’m not just gonna talk about my feeling while driving it.” Nice burn to most other CZcamsr car guys
"American" Car Guys
Also, most of them live in the extreme Leftist easy to get into a lawsuit increasingly becoming more like France state California.
For those arguing about the point of the test, I'd say this is actually a good representation of how a lot of drivers treat their cars. Ignore alignment issues, buy cheap or used tires, or never bother to change them until cords are showing. Good info for new drivers or those getting into a used car.
Maybe the title could be changed to PSA: tires and alignment matter. But overall a very good video.
Double true for motorcycles- triple true for sport bikes.
briansmobile1 i remember my rear wheel would temporarily lock if down shifted without rev matching in the rain
briansmobile1 bought new tires last week for my r6 such a difference it grips the pavement
Never buy cheap tires
True. The contact patch of motorcycle tire is about the size of your thumb. You don't want to make that already small patch even worse by buying Chinese plastic-rubber tires that don't grip even on dry, warm asphalt... :D
I never understood why the tire shop always wanted to sell me cheap tires for my bikes, or why some guys would put a horribly oversized fat tire on the rear..
When it comes to riding something so easy to die on, I want the best parts possible.
Parts are so cheap for bikes (compared to cars), if spending an extra 40+$ for a quality part may save me from pushing up daisies or being a paraplegic, then I'm damn well going to spend it.
Honestly unless you're buying OEM hold-overs that have been manufactured for 20 years, there isn't many motorcycle tires you can buy today that are really honestly "cheap" tires. They all have decent performance. It's when you start pushing hard is when you know the difference.
And for the street riders out there who want the stickiest tire, don't buy a track tire and expect the street riding you're doing to heat that tire up adequately. Get a sport-touring tire or something half-way between sport-touring and track. You need tread grooves to evacuate water. You need a tire that heats quickly to stick to unpredictable road surfaces that may have debris, oil, or water.
Title should be never buy shitty tires. There are some decent cheap tires and some not so good "expensive" ones too, according to independent reviews.
Cheap can refer to quality as well. :) And yes, you should absolutely read reviews and more importantly look at test data available to determine what tire is worth its price.
Engineering Explained For sure. Not everything "inexpensive" is junk. :)
Rentta Yes, it's never good to judge tires by price alone.
I have General Altimax RT43's on my car right now, they are ~350 for all 4. They are 'okay', but the Douglas All Season tires that run ~260 for all 4 honestly perform better.
Rentta the best tires I ever had for my BMW were Toyo proxies. couldn't ever make it slip
Rentta Was thinking the same. There are some great value brands out there. Not everyone can afford Michelin Pilot Super Sports
A couple of observations... the RE-71R is an extremely sticky, yet fast-wearing tire for the street. These tires would not last long and are overkill for a street car that doesn't get much autocross or track time. Secondly, the previous narrow, square setup (205s all around) probably contributed more to the car's previous tendency to snap oversteer then the type of tires used. Just my .02.
Summer tires aren't necessarily bad at handling rain, they're bad at handling snow. Many summer tires are actually better at performing in the rain than all season tires are, but for snow driving, you need an all-season tire.
MagicSquid for snow you need a winter tire or if you have an sic or truck all terrain tires, all seasons suck in snow for the most part.
@@samuelclark9909 Disagree totally. I have lived in snowy locations most of my life (not any more lol) but never put a winter tire on any of my cars. I have had all kinds of cars, even a rear wheel drive station wagon with no weight over the rear axle and still NEVER got stuck in 15 years of winter driving, sometimes in heavy snow. I have no doubt snow tires are better but if you have a good driving technique you dont need them.
EE please please please repeat this testing after these tires have 5k miles on them. Tires are typically super sticky when you buy them.... curing, etc... I would love to see if that changes at all (up or down) after they're worn in. Nice testing!
Will do!
Engineering Explained cool thanks! Love your videos
According to later comments, time wise, he probably will not be driving on this set of tires at 5k.
actually brand new tires arent as grippy as they are after a couple hundred miles... they use a chemical to get the tires out of the mold that coats the tread... after you wear that off, they grip better
hey.. gotta use exaggeration to get the point across to some of the youngins out there... since they know everything
Never buy cheap rubbers, gotcha. :)
MrCordycep otherwise you might end up with a surprise at the end lol
Yeah. They split. Then yo in trouble.
well mine split due to unbalanced tires over time.
Safety on the road
and in bed
At least you'll have 9 months until the surprise comes haha
Unfair match.
New vs used, summer vs all-season, 205 vs 215, speed rating:W vs H, etc.
My thoughts exactly. Test both new, both the same tire type and both the same size. If you want to test cheap vs "good" then test new tires vs new tires and of the same purpose, like summer tires vs summer tires. This test is really kinda absurd and proves nothing. Might as well test bald winter tires vs new race tires and get all surprised when the results are a surprise. Sheesh
And 5° warmer
I thought same thing.
Isn’t that the point? A lot of people get those 4 for $100 deals on junkyard tires/used tires. They don’t care about the specs as long as they fit. Speed rating shouldn’t have much impact on the stopping distance either. That’s more about the carcass construction and sidewall strength. Summer tires will generally have better grip, tire width matters, but compound is probably the biggest problem here. Old tires often are dry or rotting so the more heat you put into them, the more the surface begins to grain and become slippery. Their effective temperature window gets much smaller. The new tires were improving which is what should happen.
yea should have tested in both same size and specs with cheap brand vs expensive brand
I think I saw the age of the Fuzions was late December according to the date code ,would like to know how old they were. I had a Diablo that I used everyday and the rear tires was like 2 bars of soap after 8 years
but don't mindlessly splurge either!
Agreed! There is lots of tire test data out there if you're willing to search for it. Tire Rack and Consumer reports show lots of testing, as do many of the auto mags. Do your research and buy tires that work for your needs!
Engineering Explained are there any sources you recommended that are consistent with cross brand testing?
Bhavin Tolia I find the Euro tyre labels very helpful
I buy nothing but Pirelli P-Zero all season high performance tires for my Ford Pinto...
Idtelos only run Michelin pilot sport 2's on my 03 Honda Civic that has a turbo swap b18 wxyz
3:40 - Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 in G major, I. Allegro
Now someone do a video called "Why You Should Never Charge Hundreds of Dollars Per Tire For a Set of Four Tires If You Don't Want People to Try and Get By With Cheap, Shitty Tires, Because In This Day and Age Money Doesn't Go Nearly As Far As It Used To Which Means People Have to Find Ways to Cut Corners To Keep Enough Money There to Cover the Essentials Like Rent and Food."
And buy low cost poor quality auto parts! It is a shame what corners people are willing to cut for the right (I mean privilege) to drive! If you cannot afford to properly maintain a car walk or ride public transportation until you can.
Nick Smith if you live in NYC or DC, sure, otherwise find the $500 beater, pass safety inspection, and drive away. there are enough non driving morons driving $80k 3 row suvs to pose way more danger than any decent driver in a beater with "acceptable at best" tires. This comes from someone with 3 anally maintained vehicles.
Nick Smith There's nothing inherently unsafe in driving on cheap or used tires. Very few drivers need anything beyond the cheapest tires, just as almost nobody needs to buy premium gas. And used tires, as long as you check them out to make sure they're still in good shape (e.g. don't just tell the guys at a scrapyard to throw any piece of rubber they can find onto your wheels) are perfectly fine. The arrogance and the smugness it takes to suggest people should shell out hundreds and hundreds of dollars on tires alone for their sedans and station wagons or they shouldn't be driving at all is just dumb.
I bet you think monster cables for your stereo make a difference too...
I have nothing against used tires, if they are in proper condition and meet the original requirements of the vehicle . My comment was not directed towards tires. It was for the people who drive cars that should not be on the road but feel they have the rite to do so. But allot of new low cost tires are not safe for all vehicles, some have lower than original speed and load ratings which could fail under the rite conditions. Cold weather and wet conditions can also become hazardous with inappropriate tires regardless of the price.
And yes I have custom made 24k gold cables on all of my electronic devices and I only get my electricity from environmentally friendly sources. It is required to get the best sound from my 256kbps mp3 files that I buy individually from the Itunes store because only the poor buy full albums... Just kidding no monster cables for me, whatever came with my device is all I use or I buy them wherever I can get the best deal!
Years ago when I raced cars we had a hobby division.. at that time we had a stock tire rule.. no racing tires.. I used to jump into dumpsters behind tire shops to find nice bald tires for racing the ovals.. but then I found that the best traction came from new re-tread tires for $50 each.. and have the company shave most of the tread off.. now the new neoprene was nice and sticky, because it was new. A retread is the worst kind of tire because the whole casing is wrapped around an old tire.. often times the sidewalls would bubble from the heat.. but they weren't dangerous and I never had one blow out, not ever.. Fresh new cheap performance profile tires will most often grip better than old high performance tires (given the same width height and tread design) And lets not forget.. if you just want to have fun.. and your car is underpowered.. get some used hard performance tires and burn them up!
it is cheap, however it will costs more because theyre not durable, safe or sometimes no grip at all, eventually you will pay more by buying low quality tires, based on my experience
yup, one day youre going to understeer, or need to brake so hard that you just loose grip and crash.
then bye bye s2k...
Rendi Retnandito this is good advice until you get to really grippy tyres, as they deteriorate faster than harder (but also high quality) tyres.
Yep I learned that fast. In my honda I'd gotten used to pilot super sports so when I tried to take a turn at 60 that I iv done a dozen times my car just barley hit the grass on the side of the road and which fucked me all up. Totaled my 300whp civic si.
*lose
but you see the way my bank account is set up...
You've got your checkings, and you've got your savings.
So I don't think it's gonna go through.
Matt Wall Pineapples bitches!
Love the Kevin Hart references 😂
Engineering Explained you have white privilege and then you don’t.
Had the same experience on my car. Even with my tiny economy car brakes, I was running out of grip much sooner than braking capacity. Needless to say, it was the best $450 I ever spent on the car.
Comparing used all season tires with wider new summer tires! engineering explained!
You buy cheap, you buy twice.
You sir, just WHALLOPED that nail on the head!
Doesn't really apply in this case since the cheap tires will actually last longer. Unless you are considering that you are buying a set for you new car once your old car is 36 feet into the car in front of you.
LegendLength that isn't dangerous though
not to be rude but alot of women bought these cars who didnt drive fast. so they didny need expensive performance tires. they just liked the convertable.
LegendLength
This phrase also makes no sense if you have managed to buy something good quality at a 'cheap' price or even at the same price as the cheap product you would buy twice.
Tireneering Explained
Tire engineers are a thing.
John tires are definitely the most important and probably underestimated factor in performance
Your logic is broken in this video "Cheap" is a pretty broad term. Had you been comparing those Bridgestone's vs a set of comparable Michelin in the same "Extreme performance summer" category the result would have not been as substantial. The Fuzions you are comparing are high performance all season tires. Also the fact that you were running different speed rating tires would explain your under steer issue due to the harder compounds found in the H rated tires to prolong tire life.
I love your channel. I'm so glad youtube suggested me one of your videos, and I've been utterly hooked since. You put your videos in very easy-to-understand terms for the layman, yet still cater to the actual engineering crowd, and everyone in between. Earned my subscription, and I've been eating all your videos, and showing them to my niece. Keep up the informative videos! You thank us for watching, yet I feel inclined we owe you. THANK YOU for taking the time and effort to film, edit, and post your videos for us!
+dan725 it is so rewarding to read comments like this! Thank you thank you thank you!
even a cheap new tire is better than any bald tire period
Not on dry asphalt.
Not really, there's a world of difference between a slick tire and a tyre that has worn all it's tread away.
Only difference is that slicks have softer compound which increases grip.
The only time treads is working is on all other conditions than dry asphalt.
Please come back when you have done some racing.
No, you weren't. My kids are probably your age.
I only buy cheap tires for insane burnouts... ;)
Z06 Juan Michelin while not cheap is better for burn outs...too slick. It's all their efforts on efficiency. ..okay on my truck, but that about killed me on my Toyota Corolla in the rain. I coveted Michelins for years. When I finally afforded them? Firestones are cheaper and grippier in the rain. I love my FR710's. I can't even peel out with them in the rain. :)
Z06 Juan THIS TEST IS USELESS
1 OLD VS NEW TIRES
2 THIN VS WIDER TIRE
3 NON A LINED VS A LINED
4 TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCE THIS TEST MEANS NOTHING PERIOD ..SORRY NOT CONVINCED
DE Nichols I have had Michelin's on a few vehicles now old and new they suck period sidewalls crack and fail way before tread does and no I don't live in the sun I live in Michigan and they don't use salt here either for the last forever lol
Spyder Death yupp so true. I had Micheline tires on my Silverado they tread was in pristine condition. was driving on the highway going 50 or so miles and the whole top layer came of and beat the mess out of the back of my truck. never again will I buy Micheline. Had some Firestone tires that had no issue now I'm rocking some Goodyear tires.
Z06 Juan lol 😂
I agree with others that "cheap" tires don't necessarily mean bad tires. I bought new tires and rims for my car last May and the tires were only $94 apiece. The rims were more expensive than the tires. But I got Falken Pro G4's and Falken definitely doesn't make bad tires. They have a guarantee for 60,000 miles and are just as good as tires that I could easily pay double for.
You just have that "I freaking love my car" look all trough the video... Solid
I am already _tired_. Hah.
Der Jens get out
rezza rafee ok ( ._.)
Go home, you are drunk.
Der Jens yeah..ROLL OUT!!
I am _wheely_ sorry for this pun.
So we're comparing used all-season tires vs brand new summer tires?
Mikk Kiilaspää apparently. also an out of alignment car to an in alignment car.
Mikk Kiilaspää maybe he's not comparing which is better but what a difference it can actually make.
Maybe, but then the title is misleading.
The average consumer with the average vehicle runs the average all-season tire. So yeah, in the non-winter months, a high performance summer tire will be much better for most people, in the same size. They often do not cost more, because the trade off is reduced tire wear mileage.
I have a compact car with relatively common tire size. I recently swapped out for upsize wheels and so on, so I did a lot of research prior to my purchase.
In the same brand tire (Continental) I've compared an all-season grand touring tire and a max performance summer tire and the summer tire was less expensive even in a more performance oriented size. SOME grand touring a/s tires are not cheap at all (especially the OEM tires that came on my newer car). Shop around. Compare prices across several brands of tires for the same tire size.
As the proud owner of an 06, 140ft is totally unacceptable. I was shocked. A lot of people spend thousands on suspension upgrades, but buy cheap tires. I've used the Bridgestone SE-04s and have loved them. After this I will be trying the RE-71R . I've heard a lot of great things about them on the FB pages. When you're ready to upgrade your break pads, I would strongly recommend EBC Yellowstuff pads. I have them and have abused them and they have never faded in the slightest. Going from Cadillac Escalade, to an Alfa Romeo 4C breaking has to change the minds of anyone who was skeptical about how important are tires. Love these videos. Thank you
amazing video thank you for showing in such a technical way what a slight difference in price can do.... I mean that's the difference in Saving someone's life or running someone over.
RE-71R is one of the most extreme street tires you can buy. They also need some heat before they reach maximum grip, thus stopping distances decreasing each time. Nothing surprising here.
Reasons why I'll buy cheap tires: I'm broke
7/11bravo not true. I’m broke as well and I had the choice of Hankook tires or cheap off brand. Hankook was 20 more I think you could personally pay 20 more if your life depends on it
if you're broke why do you have a car in the first place
Why own a car if you can't have a Chiron, right?
@@albertguo868 Not everybody live places with reliable public transportation
Such a joy to watch you, and for being relevant and consistent for so long. I appreciate and thank you.
The Bridgestone RE71-R was the tire to have in autocross for 2016. It has so much grip available and only gets better as the tire gets more heat. The wear is decent and is usable in a track environment all the way until the cords are showing.
Still, cheap tires >>> worn tires.
Not on dry asphalt.
denka1337 so you'd rather have belts showing on a set of tires than run a set of nangkangs on dry asphalt? that's terrifying.
Bald, not belts showing. I'm just saying that bald sport tyres are better than cheap tyres on dry asphalt.
Personally I use max three years old Michelin Pilot Super Sport.
They didn't say work SPORTS tires though.
Better tyres are often called sports tyres, even though they shouldn't be.
Cheap tires for drift spares :)
Quality expensive tires that are hard as hockey pucks for drifting.
I actually got my tires free, that's even better :D Infinite price/performance ratio.. BTW you've got a great channel :)
Had them blow up before
This was one of the best and most simple videos i've seen lately. Its a truly good point and its why I stick to good tires. Too many close calls to cheap out.
This is one of the best CZcams car channels of all time. Thanks for clearing up all my automotive questions!
Comparing apples to oranges. Of course summer tires will have better braking performance than all seasons. Summer tires are typically made with softer rubber so they have more grip. The downside is that they wear out faster, which makes them not so great for daily drivers, and also if you do any ice & snow driving at all (even 1 day of it), the all seasons are way safer. Unless you have a second set of tires for the winter, which is too much hassle for most people.
Do a comparison of tires in the same class and then I'll believe you.
Sure, you probably shouldn't go for the cheapest tires on the market, but I'm guessing you'll get rapidly diminishing returns going up in price point, and also there will probably be a lot of differences between models (including some low-cost good ones and some expensive shitty ones), just like any other product.
"They have excessive negative camber. I'm not positive what they are..."
I see what you did thar!
Just wanna share: last year same time(November), I had my 2002 VW Jetta 2.0. I bought used 17" rims with dead tires. As a student, I didn't wanna put new tires(Milestone). I couldn't find my size(225/45/17) from the used tire sale. So I went with the cheapest brand new tires. I put two brand new to the front, then I found two 70% for rear wheels.
Guys, trust me, I was impressed when on December 31st I drove to the mountains during the night. I live in the Seattle area, where it almost never snows. I drove to the The Summit at Snoqualmie Pass. It was snowing so bad there! I was literally the only one non-AWD/4WD vehicle on the road. I was going 60-65 and the handling was awesome. I was 100% confident and I drove 60-70 miles round trip on those conditions. I didn't even loose control for a sec. The only problem was when I was trying to leave the parking lot on the pass. The car wouldn't move since the snow was almost half the wheel height. I put on Drive and pushed the car and that was it. And I kept driving the car without any problems with the tires till I sold the car.
So the point is, if you got a cheap car, then it's okay to get cheap tires. Not doing that with my 12' GLI though.
Just sharing this info, might be helpful.
The "cheap tire logic" is great. As someone who works in automotive selling tires, my FAVORITE thing I hear is, "Yeah I don't need anything special, they're for my daughter's car when she goes back and forth to college". Later in the conversation I found out it was 2 1/2 hours each way on the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
I love me some good tires too. Recently got some Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+. Very pleased.
For your nissan versa?😂😂
Those are extreme performance summer tires. Unless you drive a lot on tracks, I would recommend max performance summer tires because they are much better in rain.
Putting Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s on my DD Mustang. Hope it's worth it
Yeah, wouldn't recommend them for strictly daily commuting. but if you do autocross, track or canyon driving they're amazing tires.
Pilot Sport A/S handle like summer tires when warm but are great for cold and wet conditions, just don't expect them to handle Ice
Great video. I am a journeyman tech at a tire/repair shop. When I'm asked which tires to buy I tell them to do some research and figure out how you drive and what do you expect out of your tires in terms of longevity, noise, comfort, and performance. I also like to tell them to look at reviews because you can learn from other's experience/mistakes. Also you generally get what you pay for.
When it comes time to do your brakes, if you plan to use more performance oriented pads and rotors, could you do a similar video. I think that would be neat.
Much respect for using Racelogic's Vbox!! I've been installing vboxs on customer racecars for years
The fact they are worn all-seasons with poor alignment and wrong sizing vs. brand new proper summer tires with fixed alignment and correct sizing makes all the difference. The point about the pricing is not particularly relevant. If it had been new correctly sized summer tires at two different price points you would find that the difference is marginal, and the cheaper one is almost as likely to be the better performer in a single test such as the dry braking test you perform.
This video shows an exaggerated result, if the cheap tires were the right size, season and brand new the difference would have been much less
I don't believe this comparison was fair! Competition tire compounds are always more expensive. Remember the stickier tire will wear faster. Had you compared a Bridgestone passenger car tire to the tire of the same size you had removed the differences would of been minimized, the other thing you cannot compare those new tires to old ones since all tires loose their handling characteristics as they wear, not to mention the wider rear tires aiding in the test results.
the new tires will also get a little bit better in a few kilometers, as they are designed to function even better after a little bit of wear. So it would be interesting to test them again later and compare the results .
Great video, whenever the opportunity has come I have always informed my friends and family about investing in better tires. with all the safety features in cars now a days the tires are the only thing that actually make contact with the road... make it count.
Tire pricing and the labor for installation of tires has gotten a little nuts. During the 90s in high school I drove a beater car that rode on 195/75/14 tires. New name brand tires were $35-55 each and it cost about $10-12 for mounting them and balancing. My most recent set of tires were Michelin Pilot Super Sport 245/45/17 that were almost a grand out the door. That's enough to buy the junker car I had 20 years ago twice. Yikes! The good ole days of $50 tires, 99 cent gasoline, $15 OEM shocks, etc...gone forever.
The small(!), cheap tires you used to have can still be bought for way under 50$. After a 30 second search I found a decent brand, small size (195/75/14) tires for 40Eur which is even less in $.
You are comparing apples with oranges.
In the US at least, it's not like that anymore. Even cheap tires will set you back around $500+ after shipping and mounting/balancing. I just put on a set of used tires, it cost over $100 JUST to mount and balance.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it doesn't really seem fair to compare whatever ordinary, small tires you probably had on your car in high school to Pilot Super Sports, which are very high end tires.
What part of the US are you in? Unless you have a odd or large size you can still buy a set of name brand tires under $500 all day where I live.
Matthew Hennes
I agree.
i don't know why you are so surprised. you compared worn allseason standard tyres with new semislick tyres. the difference could be even bigger. imho allseason tyres like this sholud never been put on car like this.
yes- comparing apples to oranges here. I would dare to guess that the cheap all season tiers would perform better in the snow than the summer tires...
Plus suspension fix between tests, and wrong rear tire size on the cheap ones. Really surprised the difference was not more.
I don’t think “surprise” is the operative word here. This was a demonstration.
I have all-season tires on my roadster and can stop from 60 in about 90 feet.
I've got 2 things to say about this one:
First, broke people can usually only afford cheap tires. I've been there, and I've had to ride solely on used tires at that. The extra $200 for a set can make or break you for driving at all, even if you can have it reduced to payments on a credit card. Driving with your equipment in mind is the only thing that can help, but it's still seriously scary stuff when you slide a significant distance and stop within inches of the vehicle in front of you. Cost is truly their only advatage.
Second, I like you. You have the background I was pursuing for the longest time, and you think to test the things that I ponder on for hours and days at a time. It's really great to see someone go through all the data that I would like to know, and some that I didn't know I wanted, and make it all credible. Everything you have posted that I have watched has been interesting and capturing. I am glad that there is someone who thinks like me and has the resources and the desire to find these things and then publish and demonstrate them. Thank you, Engineering Explained!
I once had a Porsche 944s and when it came to replace the tires I put Yokohama A008Ps on and it was a superb tire that helped me to look better than I really was as a driver. When I replaced them I stepped down a little and put Dunlop D40-M2 tires that were not bad tires but not as good as the Yokohamas for grip and handling precision. The car I now have is a new 370Z sport coupe that has Bridgestone Potenza S-007s. These are great handling tires and I plan to also replace them with the Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R tires when it's time to change.
Totally agreed on tires not being something to skimp on. Personally, I think all-seasons are a terrible choice if you live anywhere with a winter. Having a dedicated winter and summer tire is incredible. If you have a garage, then you can swap your tires out as the weather changes too. I'll never buy all-seasons again.
I park on the street and have no garage but still run dedicated summer and winter tires. It is sad how little people value their lives. Some countries require them sadly where I live they do not. When I was younger I worked in a auto body shop and at least 75% of the single car crashes we repaired in the winter had all season or bald tires!
I thought my all season (except Canadian Winters really) Bridgestone Potenza RE960s were pretty good for summer, but dedicated summer tires would be much better?
Ben yep
Ben better for performance, worse for MPG.
the A/S are for us Californians cuz everyday here is a could be a bit rain but sunny all the time day.
A very interesting report. Just one small quibble: I have difficulty believing that you were really able to measure stopping distances to five figure accuracy (+/- 0.12") or stopping times to three significant figures (+/- 10 milliseconds).
Indeed! Tsk, tsk engineers should know about this. :P
Awesome evaluation of how much quality tires will enhance the way your vehicle handles! Thanks EE!
Excellent video. I had the same issue when I bought my latest S2000 (AP2). It came with extremely cheapo "performance" tires that were unbelievably bad and had a huge impact on driving feel. I went with Continental ExtremeContacts DWS for the wet weather performance, but over sized slightly with 225/47-17 and rear with 255/40-17. Massive improvement and perfectly stable at 80 MPH in standing water conditions and even did very well in the snow this year, although not as well as actual snow tires would have.
"Because this is engineering explained I'm not just gonna talk about my feelings when driving" Quote of the century right there.
To be fair, the tires were aligned correctly, wider and summer tires as opposed to all season. Not to defend cheap tires of course, they're a surefire way to ruin both your ride quality and sanity.
like always, love your videos and recommendations, currently i invested on more expensive tires on my car, and it makes a life worth while. Best aligment, best breaking distance, car runs smoother
I up-sized my wheels and tire width on my 15 Ford Focus this spring. 215/55-16 to 235/45-17. Stock wheels 16x7 @ 25 pounds. Forged TSW 17x8 @ 18 pounds. Went from cheap OEM grand touring tires to high performance summer tires, same weight @ 22 pounds each.
I dropped a total of 28 pounds of unsprung rolling mass from the car. I've not done a stopping test but I guarantee my eyeballs would be bulging forward. Handling and steering are noticeably quicker. It's great!
I disagree with the conclusion of this video. I think the difference in braking distance does mostly result from the difference between A: aged tyres vs. new tyres and B: all season tyres vs. semi-slick tyres with a very soft and sticky compound. I had old hardened summer tyres from a good and expensive brand on a Ford Mondeo Turnier (German Version) - I cannot remeber the brand, sorry. Anyway, those tyres had a subjectively long braking distance and a low cornering speed. Hence I changed them for the cheapest new summer tyres in the same size I could find (Chinese made Faralong tyres). The new cheap tyres had a lot more grip (70kph old expensive tyres vs. 75kph cheap new tyres in the same corner) and also a subjectively far shorter braking distance. They even saved me from an accident in an Autobahn exit. I could brake from 120kph to 0kph with 2 meters to spare. I am absolutely certain, that I would have caused an accident with the old tyres. Hence, I think the age and type of tyre are far more important than the price.
I drove cars with expensive tires and drove cars with cheap tires I could not tell different, in the car I drove was BMW M3 and a Porsche 911.
The amount of effort you put in. Salute bro.
Edited...oversteer by braking in a corner is a very normal behaviour for a well balanced vehicle but of course is accentuated when you undersize the rear tires. it is almost the first thing you will learn if you get any racetrack training. It is called "dynamic weight transfer". People may be ignorant of it now because of electronic stability control, but it is really fundamental.
I love the smell of tyre shops, will someone please make an aftershave.
Ahhh the VOCs
I'd be interested to see the results from a brake test after your new tires have the same tread wear as the old ones.
probably wouldn't matter on dry road
I experienced braking oversteer once...on a snowy road. Makes for a lot of seat pucker! Acceleration oversteer does also! I really think limited slip differentials have more risk in everyday driving for RWD vehicles than the few times they may come in handy for one wheel slip situations. A manual lock up seems like it would be much better for the general public.
Thanks for this video. I was just trying to explain this to a friend but didn't have the numbers to back it up. I really enjoy the videos you have done.
This is unfair test .. the old tyres will have harder rubber due to age, hence, lower grip coefficient, New tyres have fresh softer rubber with more grip.
You should know this and be more scientific.
H Mandeel It's not unfair because when you cheap out on tires, for example you buy used tires, the rubber will be harder as well due to age as opposed to new quality tires. So it's still comparing cheaping out to investing in quality
Because dad didn't carry coins, dad carry bills.
Zoki T lol 😂
excellent videos, really enjoy them. keep up the good work and keep the information coming bud!
Ken Tyrrell, the Formula 1 team owner, said once 'Never underestimate the importance of those four pieces of rubber'. Certainly in racing it's a lot more important, but tyres are what enable your brakes and steering wheel to work. Here in England, winter tyres are rare, but they make an immense difference when the snow starts. The downside, that minus 28 feet stopping gives you a lot more scope to have the guy behind help you on your way.
Honestly, I'm not impressed. In the original set of tires, you have all the following factors to consider:
* The camber was screwed up
* They were less wide than the new ones (in other words, less surface area)
* Who knows how old they were and how much quality they lost due to age/weathering
If you tested with the same camber, same width, and tested the tires new, I'm pretty confident you'd be a lot less satisfied with that $200 difference. I have no doubt the more expensive tires would still outperform the cheaper ones, but not to this magnitude.
Agreed. Not to mention the old tires were all-seasons and the new ones are high performance summer tires. It's not a fair comparison of cheap vs quality tires. Summer tires will always stop better than all-seasons on a warm dry day. It would make more sense to compare the old tires to new all-seasons. Or, of course, ideally, compare NEW Fuzion tires to NEW "quality" all-season tires in the same size, with the same camber.
I drove all seasons last summer and even slight rise in humidity made them grip a lot worse. Where i live there is this intersection to a road that goes slightly up not much but its noticeable and they slip on that part even on completely dry surface
I would not only say it's fair to compare cheap vs quality tires, but encouraged. The point is to show how much the extra money is worth it. Tires are always something you don't want to go cheap on. However, I would say that it's not fair to compare old tires vs new, when claiming the comparison is cheap vs quality.
Other factor is that the old set are touring all-seasons while the new set is are UHP summer tires.
And all seasons are awful on summer compared to summers
As a Tyre Fitter. I can tell you that some generic tyres can out perform brand name tyres. Most the time, the extra cost is just you paying for a brand name, not for extra performance or longevity.
What brands do you recommend?
yes, tell me wat is a better brand for my mk5 gti then michelin pilot 4
I mean this might be true for economic tyres, but a generic tyre will never outperform a performance tyre which is what EE fitted onto his s2k.
The rear kicking out during heavy braking going into a corner happens to me too in my 2016 Miata. I love trail braking, makes you feel like a boss when you get it right.
One of the outstanding feature between your videos and other regular ones, is that you have a very good audio quality on voice. :D
An extra 36ft will get ya rear ended now that it can out brake the cars behind ya. Lol
Maybe they shouldn't follow so closely. I don't.
Hopefully when an emergency stop happens, no one is following behind you closely, but if they are. At least you're not at Fault for the accident and it teaches the other guy not to follow vehicles too closely! :) No tailgating people.
you just cant win can you hahaha
Been in that situation. Thats how the old Subaru on the highway bought my 2013 Fusion a new rear bumper.
In some countries/states, the insurance laws / agreements make it so if the crash involves 3 vehicles or more (maybe it's 4; not 100% sure), everyone is evenly responsible. Sure, the person behind you is the jackass that was following you too closely, but if he bumps you into the car in front of you, you might end up paying just as much as him! I know it doesn't mean you should or shouldn't buy good/bad new/used tires, but it's a "fun" piece of trivia! :-P
sick miata!
S2000...
Yeah man! Those MR2s are great!
Coston Harrell man I love the engine in between them both axles Love your mid engine, engineering explained
nice looking lambo
Coston Harrell yup! Pretty sick del sol
I'd love to see a demo/comparison on motorcycle tires since they tend to be the higher performance style tires by design
Talking about the Fuzion tires being cheap really speaks to me I was in a situation where I needed to slam the breaks and the slid felt like forever. End result nobody hurt and just a hole in the bumper but 36ft would have been more then enough room to avoid that.
Fuzions vs Bridgestones...
Not even fair... Fact - Fuzion is claiming that if the NHL uses their rubber the game will notice increases in puck speed.
Bridgestone makes Fuzion tires.
Engineering Explained Ok, my point is it would make a better hockey puck. But thanks for the detail.
did you have the gas tank filled the same amount to account for possible difference in mass?
Yep, full tank before heading out each time.
A 21% improvement in stopping distance over the Fusion tires for $216. Not a bad deal and I'm sure it handles so much more predictably. And a nice looking sidewall is a bonus!
Agree, cheap tyres do not cut the mustered. Have used Bridgestone tyres over a number of years and found that they do last for around 50 000 kms on a passenger vehicle and gives good grip on the road.
This video doesn't prove anything and perpetuates a lack of knowledge for it's viewers. You're saying not to buy cheap tires because of your test. However, your test was comparing the wrong size tires with bad camber, against correct tires with good camber. Of course you're going to see improvement with something like that. This video is a great attempt, but unscientific because you didn't eliminate those variables.
it's 200 price difference, but you also need to take into account how faster they wear, most likely twice as fast.
Ricardo Callado three times as fast. I got about 15k out of them before they were heat cycled out when I had the re71r.
Four times as fast I think! :) RE71R is known to be the softest of the soft EHP tyres. Wearing nearly as fast as R-dot racing tyre... wearing much faster than other EHP tyres like Yokohama AD08R, that are already much softer than a normal sports tyre. The 200 treadwear on the RE71R is comedy at best. :P They are probably more like 100 treadwear, really.
Micah Myricks Exactly. Heat cycling is a big issue with really soft tires and can make them worse than even relatively cheap tires over time. You need to buy *quality* tires, but not necessarily the grippiest ones available.
I'll just add that my sister passed in a car accident when she was 15. Granted, the driver was driving 80 mph in a 35 mph, but I would like to think that better tires could have saved some lives that day. Another reason I will ALWAYS buy the highest rated tire possible is my own life was almost taken from me. I was driving on the highway during a bad snow and ice storm. Suddenly the car began to pull to the left and just kept pulling until I could hear the warning tracks. Then, my left tires were in the grass.
Next thing I know, the car is doing a 360 in the high-speed lane. Then a semi-trailer flew by me, who was unable to brake in time. That was the scariest moment so far in my life! From then on I swore to never buy anything but the best-rated tires I can afford.
I don't drive with all-season tires because I don't want to compromise the dry handling performance, which is over 99% of my driving. When the road is wet or the road conditions are less than good I simply slow down and drive more carefully and try to anticipate possible problems better. One time when I hydroplaned my Porsche on a highway road during a sudden and violent rainstorm in San Diego, I simply took quick and well-thought-out moves to regain control.
50/50 distribution becomes more front when you get on the brakes. And if the brakes in the rear start to lock up you get a lot of fun. I'm glad you were able to get it under control and are safe. (like they said about the original Dodge Viper "if you have not spun the car then you're not driving it").
If you target an international audience, you should really consider translating the units into non-American ones. Imagine watching a video where the guy speaks about how many elbows his car needs before stopping when running at 940 quarterparsecs with a temperature of 593 degrees Wilson.
google translate.I do it all the time when watching youtube videos from outside the US and I don't even have to complain in youtube comments! Amazing!
Lynn Mckenney yeah, best idea ever, except that Google translate does not convert units. And even if it did, pausing the video every 5 seconds to convert units into international and not just American ones would still ruin the video experience.
Well, seems like you just want to complain. I can't help you with that.
He did the tests stopping from about 100 km/h and braked in about 35-40 meters. Not that hard to extrapolate the data.
What a long video it would be! How many languages and units of measure would be adequate?
Excessive camber is a way manufacturers get more cornering ability out of their cars. My mechanic, (not something I'm used to admitting after being in AutoParts for 20-+ yrs and working on my own cars until my back caught up with me), tells me that Mazda is notorious for this. I wouldn't doubt that Honda did the same on the S2000. It works , but at a cost. Back in the day we aligned our front ends for drag racing, which took into account how high the motor carried the front end during the pass and aligned camber accordingly to reduce drag. That ate tires too. So, let's hear what you've got!
There's definitely a line of best value, though. Getting the stickiest tires possible will cost a fortune because not only will the tires be expensive, but the tread will be gone in no time. Also, at a certain point the stickiest tires usually have a temperature range higher than normal driving so may not always grip well during normal commutes, which can actually be less safe. Another issue is that stickier tires tend to degrade from heat cycling faster than harder tires, meaning they may actually grip less than even cheap tires if they go through a few aggressive heat cycles.
For most normal cars, around $100/tire is usually where you want to be. Any more and you're paying for features you don't need like the ability to go 150+ mph and grip that is just not necessary for street driving. As others have said, too, you can only stop as fast as the people behind you, if you stop like you dropped an anchor you'll just get rear ended by the guy on cheap tires behind you. More important than maximum grip is keeping a reasonable following distance and paying attention.
These tires are great. They are noisy on the road tho. But who said we have to care about that?
I haven't found them to be noisy, but maybe that will come with age on the tires. Certainly not any louder than the Fuzions.
Engineering Explained on my Miata after about 150 miles or so, on the highway they sound like bad wheel bearings lol
It's not terrible though, I mean, I can put up with it. But also too, since I daily mine I have a different set of tires for everyday so I can just use the RE-71R's for autocross ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The louder the better, you want you tires sound like a bad wheel bearings, you want your brakes to squeak, you want no sound deadening = because race car bro
two things you should never buy cheap:
shoes and tires
Mostafa B clearance isn't bad if you got big feet
Mostafa B my $20 nikes have lasted me a year so far, with running 2-3 miles every other day :D
Three things you should never buy cheap: shoes, tires, and women...
Don't forget cheap hookers
beer and toilet paper
Several years ago, the Chevy Silverado set two records with Consumer Reports.
1. Longest stopping distance of any vehicle they'd ever tested (141 feet).
2. Largest turning radius of any vehicle they'd ever tested.
We drove one as a work truck and you could.'t park close to any building in the normal parking spaces. The truck couldn't make the turn into the spots! You had to park far enough out that you could swing through the neighboring spot just to get into yours. It was unbelievably frustrating.
Fuzion TiresFuzion is made by Bridgestone Firestone (BFS), and is positioned as their inexpensive associate brand. The idea for another brand inside BFS came from the realization that a large segment of the North American market does not want to pay a premium for a recognized brand. Fuzion tires can be priced affordable because of manufacturing synergies with the other BFS products, as well as far less advertising costs. The Fuzion product line up covers Sport Performance, SUV and Touring