Benefits Of Individual Throttle Bodies
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2017
- What Are The Benefits Of Individual Throttle Bodies
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Individual throttle bodies mean that atmospheric pressure air is closer to the cylinders, thus improving throttle response. With tuned velocity stacks, they can be designed to create more horsepower for a specific RPM range. ITB's also have lower pumping losses at partial throttle versus single throttle body systems.
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Advantages to ITB's: they look awesome, sound awesome, are awesome
100%
Also the only reason I'm keeping my CAI. Sounds cool even though it does absolutely nothing for performance
awesomeness is a must !!
No complaints. The intake sound though!
Awesomeness does increase HP!(Happiness Power)😆
The biggest reason to go ITB is to get rid of the effect a plenum has on the positive pressure waves that pulse back into the plenum when the intake valve shuts. These waves can affect adjacent cylinders because they share that plenum. If the plenum is eliminated, the pulse waves go into ambient pressure and cannot affect the adjacent runners. Tuning the stack length helps when you tune for high, medium, or low RPM power gains because you can actually "time" the pulse to be exiting or nearing the exit of the stack when the valves open on the next cycle. Doing this can create a positive pulse wave INTO the engine. I am measuring 0.05psi of positive pressure, not vaccum, above 5500 RPM on my 2.0 Zetec with ITBs because of this phenomenon.
I've been told this is the biggest reason ITBs can be beneficial. I did notice big gains up top when I built mine. And the car doesn't run out of breath up top, it just keeps pulling, which is great when I want to leave it in 2nd due to an upcoming turn at the track and don't want to waste time shifting up then down again. Before, I would kind of run out of steam and it was a draw whether I upshifted to 3rd or rode it out. Now, it's definitely better to leave it at WOT from 7200 to 7700 where it would fall on its face before.
Tim Oyer excellent insight. Thank you.
+Tim Oyer
Great, informative answer. Thumbs up!
You missed just one important thing... Engine sounds so much better with ITB's :)
Saved me a comment, thanks.
laferrari uses this thing
@MDS your comments started off topic. You missed the point of not only the class but the OP gains. You are on the wrong side of the equation!
As a Honda fanatic (particularly a F series fanatic,) I have seen f and h series motors with itbs, and they are so freaking aggressive. The VTEC just roars away.
F23 r nice
Throttle response for me! I need my car to react when I say so!
Sacha-yves jean-louis thank you! Drive by wire sucks!
@@breddary how to get good throttle response on a drive by wire system? I ask because it seems like no production car made today has drive by metal cable anymore
@@treerexaudi I think it's ECU tuning that does it. A lot of the time, pedal position is not mapped linearly to throttle position. Since the ECU pretty much does everything, then... Also consider that leaner fuel mixtures make it harder for the motor to rev quickly. It's why most small engines with turbos end up not being that much better, they have to inject a lot more fuel when you floor it to get it to spool quickly and _then_ lean out.
@@lfox02 2020 honda civics have extremely bad throttle response
That could actually be a really great technology to implement on forklifts and other propane engines because they have a massive amount of lag associated with throttle responses.
Lag is probably not important on forklifts unless you're racing them.
@@TucsonDude it helps with precise manipulation though
@@TucsonDude who says he isn't 🤣
@@its_only_karma7440 all the forklift drivers drive them flat out.
@@TucsonDude it is actually very important. Some of them have auto bleep systems when you ask for pressure to tilt the forks for example and Lagg can stall the engine.
Great Video, great explanation. I will tell you from experience, I've worked on some of the old Weber Carbs that had separate throttle, as well as some aftermarket Fuel Injection systems built to replicate those old carburetors, and have a separate throttle bodies at each cylinder. The worst part about them is they are SUPER sensitive to the throttle plates being adjusted perfectly to have identical airflow through each of the throttle plates when the linkage is adjusted to have all the slack taken out of every point. If you have them out of balance, or the linkage is off and opens some before others, you'll end up with running problems or issues on acceleration as you have different amounts of air flowing into each cylinder. It's a great system in theory, I just have not seen where we have the details worked out well enough for widespread implementation.
And it seems that weatherproof cold air intake is easier to do on non-ITB setups.
Just like older 4cylinders Motorcycles having 4 carburators insted of one giant carburator.
i think even newer motorcycle use ITB bcs u need a sharp engine response in a performance bike
@@user-ef3om4jb6s I wouldn't say my motorcycle is new being a 2005 FZ6, but it's got ITBs in an airbox.
Once again a great, to the point, informative video. I'm installing individual throttle bodies on my Toyota RXI today, I just needed YOUR reassurance that I'm not wasting money, and the technicians aren't setting a unreasonable expectation, just to make a quick buck
@engineeringexplained just watched an old video from 2011 about horsepower vs torque, such a difference in your confidence! You have come a long way.. great stuff and keep up the very interesting and informative videos :)
nice one! you might expand this to turbo itb setups as well. those are even more complicated and interesting!
Your explanation is great , and each system has its advantages , The IR system is great for road racing where crisp throttle response is needed and great midrange power , but it will never make the top end power if a plenum system . This is because of how restrictive it is . When you have say a single 4bbl on a plenum each cylinder has access to all 4 throttle bores , not just 1 as in the IR system , so hi RPM power is always better .
An example , I have done a lot of dyno development on a 4 cylinder Olds Q4 engine . From running the stock factory fuel injection w single throttle body w plenum to hand built intake w 2 throttle bodies on a plenum , and then 2 Weber 48mm carbs on a hand built IR intake and then to a single Holley 780 cfm 4bbl on a plenum intake . Each had its own power curve and different driving feel , The Webers have instant throttle response , but are down on peak TQ and HP to the plenum system , not much different in drive ability but very crisp off idle .
On the Dyno the weber carbs were down 10 lb ft of Tq and 13 Hp over the Holley carb set up , which made 289 Lb Ft Tq @ 5200 rpm and 305 Hp @ 7200 rpm .
I love you!
I am a trainee auto mechanic and I recently got an engine with ITBs and was asking my teacher about them only Monday and you made this video today!
I always watch your videos but this was cosmic! Thank you!
You, my dear sir, are so lucky it's not even funny. I could trade for that position in a heartbeat if I had the option to.
@@saumabhobagchi5547 I am a lady but teehee, thanks so much!!
May one day the Universe give you ITBs!!
@@BabyxBandit Thanks. Appreciate it 😊
@@saumabhobagchi5547 You are so welcome!😊😊
Have a good day and happy new year!
@@BabyxBandit A very happy new year to you too 😊😊
Idk if your channel is still up and running and you will see this but If so I appreciate how detailed and well explained your videos are....They have been very helpful as I am kind of new to the tuning world and without alot of mechanical background..But I'm learning thanks to your videos and again they are much appreciated...😎
ITB's are often tuned using throttle position vs RPM, with corrections for intake air temperature and barometric pressure
your videos are by far the most useful. keep it up 👍
do a video abaut stright pipes, like the difrences , and diesel vs gas
My AE92 Corolla is fitted with a 4AGE 20v silvertop with ITB's from factory. It's super fun to drive and sounds amazing even though I'm using a single cone filter.
I have ITB's in my E30, and now i'm a very happy guy!
How is the consumption
Great video! This is the best explanation I have ever heard. Thanks!
Nice, very informative, I realize this morning seeing the tittle of the your video that I didn't really knew the pro and cons of these, so thanks.
great video jack keep it up
Finally did it. Liked and subscribed. Thank you!
you are awesome , presence of you alone and how you explain it makes videos very good and helpful , thanks my friend
Love my GTiR, came standard with quad throttle bodies
Pulsar gtir had the only sr20 which had itb
Nika Tskhovrebadze was also the most powerful
That is true however it's a pity with how Nissan designed them. I don't understand why they went to so much trouble to make an ITB setup and then to compromise the design that badly.
Nice use of the whiteboard! Much easier to follow than lots of CGI stuff! Would it be possible for you to do a vid on turbochargers vs superchargers (if you haven't already!)? The differences, advantages and disadvantages. Are they better suited to certain types of engines (no. of cylinders, capacity etc). Would be cool to hear your thoughts.
You got the best videos for a guy like me who has to know how everything works, at least when it comes to cars :D
Always wondered about this. Thanks!
Awesome video!
On carburetored cars and bike it allows for per cylinder adjustment of the air fuel ratio. This allows for higher cylinder pressures, because you do not have to provide margin for fuel mixture variation from cylinder to cylinder.
It never matters what the subject is. The way this guy explains everything makes me enjoy watching it.
I'm now planning on Harrop Hurricane ITB on my LS7 'style' build for my for Chevy SS. So much for my Plazmaman Race intake with a 102mm TB.
The 1st drawing reminds me of an ABF intake :)
The reason why I am here is I am building a 1/25th scale car model of the 66 Buick Wildcat. It has options for motor. One being dual quad carbs. vs
8- Velocity stacks. I didn't know anything about which has the advantages. Now I do. Thanks !
I know you did a video on intake before but could you get more into induction wave pulses vs restriction because of length Is it better to have the full length to get it to hit one of the 3 first waves or is it "better" to have a straight runner as long as the surrounding allows you ? (For HP That is )>5252rpm
i run itbs with alpha n. i loved it to bits for the throttle response
Great explanation! I've Always wonder why my Yamaha XJ6 Bike haves 4 throttle bodies instead of simple and small, specially when talking about bikes where space is reduced.
Another downside that I can notice on my bike is that is heavier to pump the throttle when we are talking about 4 butterflies instead of 1. The spring to hold the butterflies is much stronger.
NO MORE POWER , ... I THOUGHT SO YES !!! ! !!! Just a better response in the mid revs . Thanks for the video .
Great Video!
Can you please do a video on velocity stacks? Explain exactly what they do and how to maximize the benefits. Also various applications. I am currently experimenting with them hahaha
what they do i can help with, rather than trying to feed air into a straight ended tube the velocity stack creates a larger and smoother surface area to pull air into the tb, resulting in a smoother flow of air.
think of it like a funnel if you will.
hardly a scientific answer but hey it might help you understand them a little better - cheers
Not quite correct. It makes the air transition into a smaller area. This reduces the pressure of the air but increases the velocity as it comes into the engine. You want somewhat turbulent air in your engine for some reason that was explained to me but I forgot.
thegarage.jalopnik.com/what-are-velocity-stacks-and-why-you-want-them-on-your-1792235442
create one with carbon fiber, then put a servomotor for each to modify the legnht then put the engine on tuning and vary the lenght for different charge and rpm and you get the most power from them for each point of the map. you should tune them for each cylinder
To feel the difference, do like this:
Make a pipe in paper, 100mm long and 40mm in diameter for example
Blow air through it with your mouth and put your hand in the other end to feel the air flow. (remember the flow)
Then insert a "velocity stack" in the pipe, make the stack of something harder(cardboard, plastic etc)
Blow through and feel the flow again and you should feel that the air hits your hand faster/harder than it made without the stack!
The velocity/speed of the air has increased because of the smaller area in the pipe.
Several of you guys are mixing velocity stacks with air horns. Its certainly true that this shape is beneficial to flow compared to an abrubtly cut off pipe. However there is more to true velocity stacks than this. When the intake valve closes in your engine, it creates a small pressure wave travelling outwards through your velocity stack. Now from this point on, my knowledge is a bit sketchy but ill try to explain the basic concept. Anyway, when the pressure wave reaches the end of the stack, the pressure drops dramatically because of the increase in volume, and this in turn creates another pressure wave in the opposite direction. The idea is to tune the length and shape of the stack to harvest this pressure wave as the next intake cycle starts to help with initial cylinder filling, sort of like an opposite scavenging effect created by a properly tuned exhaust.
In this way, it is in theory possible to create an engine with a volumetric efficiency greater than 1, or in other words, an engine which passes in one revolution more air through itself than its actual engine displacement.
Now i am no fluid dynamicist or expert, just an interested layman. I'm not sure how or if the horn shape affects the pressure wave itself, but i would think a straight tube would create a stronger pressure wave, but naturally the intake needs to flow well. possibly in a straight cut off intake pipe, incoming air would cancel out the pressure wave due to turbulence from having to change directions sharply.
Please I need an explanation about the runners length regarding ITB, how it effects low rpm to high rpm
Great vid!
Wow, really nice informative, even watched twice, (maybe even third will be soon) but two questions I have about this system:
Will it be better than stock manifold (intake runners same diameter), and all other stuff?
Will you do it on your S2K?
Great stuff
Can you compare this 2 with the FIAT throttles type - valve air flow control?
All of the car systems that feed off a constant vacuum would have to be rerouted - two off the top of my head are the PCV valve and the brake booster. But I can definitely see this setup being better for performance cars.
Is this compatible with forced induction? I mean I don't see the MAP working very well in that scenarion. Or can you put a MAF before the throttle bodies?
+Engineering Explained
Thanks. What I am wondering about, is why you have less pumping losses with either of those systems. Aren't pumping losses determined by the partial vacuum on top of the piston?
Link me the MAP sensor video... I have a questions regarding making a map sensor work in conjunction with a turbo setup that is after market. Do I simply need a check valve?
Have you ever measured PMEP using ITB versus STB on the same engine? I just think that saying that ITBs have any benefit on PMEP is a big simplification. Nice video btw.
EE rockin' the smedium t-shirt today.
Makes his guns look bigger
I didn’t realize how cool these were! XD
I want one, I need one!!
Can you please explain how ITBs would reduce pumping loss? I understand how they help combat manifold filling times to improve throttle response, however in the steady-state part-load conditions, how would pumping work change? Pumping loss is a function only of the gas flow rate and the pressure loss across the restriction (W = m(p1v1 - p2v2)). Therefore, for the same engine load (MAP) and volumetric efficiency + engine speed (flow rate), I would expect the throttle loss to be independent of the size and shape of any manifold volume in the system, before or after the throttle(s).
Hi! I love yours videos and becouse I am also Engineer I love your approach to some problems. I have one question. Usually we can see ITB on specyfic tuned N/A racing engines becouse reasons you mentioned in video. What about forced induction? I saw pictures of such setups. Does the lag from building pressure in the system (lets do not take into consideration inertia of a turbo becouse you can use mechanical charger), the volume of air in intercoolers and so on. Do it has any sense if you do not use antilag system in turbo?
ITBs add serious cool points to any vehicle lucky enough to have em. Even if they didn't have any performance benefits, they looks and sound incredible. I'd love to find some clear resin intake plenums to show off the ITBs on my M5, but I just don't see that happening.
Can you do a video on dos, don'ts, and benefits on vehicles with an electronic shifter. Thanks
Miss my 70 Honda 750-4 itb’s and single baffle 2-1 pipes oh my the pull and the sound.
Hey EE, performance oriented ITB cars are tuned Alpha-N or TPS vs. rpm. N/A cars can be tuned without a intake manifold in this case. Turbo cars still need a manifold for fueling adjustments while in boost.
Was hoping someone would mention Alpha-N. Vacuum signals from ITBs are very "noisy" and not very strong at partial throttle for reasons outlined in the vid.
I built ITBs for a car I turbocharged some years ago.
To map the engine, I ran Alpha-N and applied corrections to fuel and ignition based on positive manifold pressure.
Worked like a charm and had fantastic throttle response.
Question,,, on 04:23 --- the power / RPM relation and the shorter and longer runners issue, is there a video talking about this in details ??? I kinda lost you there :)
Engineered explained you should make a video in the future of what the causes may be for a exploding engine or nitrous , I've seen many videos of them exploding but I don't know how exactly or what may have caused it to explode
Question:
Why do ITBs sound so good? Can a „normal“ intake manifold sound similar?
It's because there's allmost nothing to muffle the sound of engine sucking air. Especially when you have vvt like vtec or vanos, you can really hear it kickin' in
Yup ITB’s are going on the 1UZ
Thank you
great video
I used to own an Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1.8 with the "Alfanord" twincam engine that used to power Alfas a few decades ago with displacement from 1.3 to 2 liters (also, Alfetta, Alfetta GT/GTV, and, before, Giulia & Giulia GT). Those Alfa engines were all ITB and actually very reactive, although it was difficult to sync the 4 TBs, to avoid some disappointing power gaps. Not so many mechanics were able to do the job properly and was also expensive. The 2 liter engine was the first to switch from two 2-barrel carburetors to electronic injection, unfortunately losing the ITB feature
The sibilance is a bit harsh / distracting in this video (more so than usual). Even still, I learned something new, so keep em' coming. Thanks Engineering Explained!
Hi, You should make video about ITB and turbo vs single throlle and turbo. Lots of opinions is abouts those 2 systems...
Would you be able to do a video on 2017 F1 cars compared with last year's?
Just started watching this video, but beforehand I'd like to tell you that your videos are always awesome. I hope you continue using your excellent brain to produce this awesome content and never leave the internet to go caveman mode and instead work on a TV show like some of your friends. Just sayin'
Back in the day I owned an '93 Alfa Romeo 33 with 1.7L 16v boxer engine. This engine had ITB and was super enthusiastic on the throttle input. Loved that. I hate to say, but the NC Miata is driven by a ship diesel in comparison in this particular respect. BUT; The Alfa Romeo 33 with the 1.7L 8v boxer engine had even quicker throttle response then the 16v variant. Well, at least from idle. This 8v had a single throttle body. Never fully understood this. Perhaps due to having two camshafts an 8 valves less it had lower inertia?
I have one golf 3 gti with itb and its insane the sound
Can you reduce engine vibrations by giving each cylinder a different amount of air?
ast5515 whoa tony stark
Could start with an inline 6 engine.
The itb's also allow for equal distribution of the air/fuel ratio and each cylinder can be tuned individually
Thanks a lot teacher love your explanation ^___^
I've Learnt Alot From Engineering explained..😎
Video idea: take a look back at some of the most legendary engines and what makes them so great
This is nice. I hate it when I step on the gas and there isn't immediate acceleration.
That is the best explanation I have seen for ITBs. Thank you.
pls make a video on brake fluid temperature when using the brakes...
off topic: could you look into and make a video about start stop systems? Maybe some calculations to compare a car with and without it, with same chassis but with weight differences and also try to include a purchase price. So to give a answer: is it worth it?
How do the ITB's deal with cold starts? Most throttle bodies I've seen have a separate assembly that has temperature feedback which controls mixture at start up and idle . The throttle body butterfly is completely closed during it's operation.
I've looked at a few ITB's and they don't seem to have this .
please do a video showing if it is beneficial to shift manually in a dsg car?
pls make a video on brake oil temperature change when using brakes.....I have searched online and there is no video on this topic..pls make one...thanks
is a way to eliminated flow meter on car to use gsrx trottles bodys.. ? so what i need to do deleted flow meter.. n some how trick the ecu.. ty
@Engineering Explained , is there an instance where ppl would use individual throttle body systems with power adders like tubos? Is that possible/ practical and would there be any benefits
what if you upgrade to larger runners and throttle bodies that way it’s not as restrictive and then boost it? that way it gets air faster. would the ITB then be better???
can you make a valve before those throttle bodies, to clog one or more of the cylinder for better fuel consumption during low power situation?
such as on bumper to bumper traffic or highway cruise where it's just maintaining constant speed at moderate rpm.
Hey EE do transmissions have break-in periods just like engines thanks for the help and keep up the awesome videos
See if you can find a video of a engine that received incorrect break in. I can't find it. Point is I don't think you would know if the break in was correct or not.
Doing this on my BMW M52tuB28 engine, can’t wait to hear it roar😮💨
Itbs sound awesome as well.
Do you have a video on how to build a fast NA ej25?
For an E46 M3 with standard internals which is better to run for more power, a carbon air box or itb's ?
Explain how my '89 Honda has both! Dual intake ports it has.
Love the shirt
It's funny I was just watching a 2 yr old RCR video of the 96 Ford F150 which curiously did have 2 throttle bodies i always wondered about. Then I watch this one clearing up the reasons (allowing me at least to contemplate).
what are your thoughts about using actuators instead of the camshaft to run valves and using them as throttle bodies at the same time?
asaikaly2 Like how BMW engines work?
they're amazing! personally, I cant wait to get to tune and mess with stuff like that! and i think it can increase power and efficiency as well. if he hasn't already done a video on freevalve tech he totally should!
He has done one on it, showing that the valves can open faster than with a cam shaft and have a longer duration
Preproto i thought so, just wasnt sure if i saw it somewhere else. im pretty excited for it.. i feel like its the next big change like EFI was!
Here are my thoughts! czcams.com/video/FJXgKY2O4po/video.html
My car doesn’t have individual throttle bodies but it has 2 throttle bodies side by side in the front of the engine. My mustang gt has the 4.6 3 valve engine but the coyote 5.0s now have just a single large throttle body. What’s the benifits kf each ?
i have a question, in SI engines what happens if the intake runner used is smaller than actually required? is it true that , reverse flow will cause some of the fuel to be lost out the intake to the environment and hence the AFR requirment becomes higher and drops the efficiency? i just cant visualize it. can you show some schemetics or video if possible?
How would ITBs effect a boosted engine? Would there be any advantage to having them with a Turbo/Supercharger?
Hey man love your videos, can you explain why some air filters add more horsepower than others, besides they're just filtering air right?(Like k and n adds 15 more horsepower than stock, is it true)
Would running longer runners for low end power help torque there and improve fuel efficiency? I’m assuming so but I’m not an engineer.
So which one is better for high rpm motors, just like the S2000? Thanks. I know the ITB system is expensive and comes in different diameter too. Thanks.