I overloaded my new engine hoist/crane trying to lift and move my Milling Machine. Lets look at the mode of failure and what I can do to improve its design strength.
Hello Cam, Good to see you... This is an interesting project... I must admit when you hand the mill hanging there I was really hoping nothing would fail and the mill get damaged... See you on the next one. Take care. Paul,,
Never ever weld a cross the top of a lifting beam. You automatically create a weak point in the boom. The end stiffener is ok as is the butt end, but the knuckle for the hoist only longitudinal welds. Only use low hydrogen electrodes or mig! Beefing up the boom only, is akin to hanging a 3 ton chain block off a 1 ton chain block expecting to lift a 4 ton load……lol
Very nice repair and rectification Cam. I was watching you lifting that heavy mill at the end of the video and I was thinking, “I wonder if the bottom end will fail”! Well bugger, the bstrd did. Sorry to see this happen buddy. No doubt you will rebuild the entire unit now. Cheers 🍻, Aaron
Yep Aaron, my gut also said the base structure would be the next to go. I took it over to my brothers workshop where he has a bigger press than mine and straightened it all out. I'll plate it all in and have another go and see if anything else fails. Its called intuitive design from failure, something I can get away with in my little side show shop but industry would look at it quite differently. Goldsmith is on this weekend!! Cam
I've been fortunate with my Harbor Freight hoist. I did have issues with the hydraulic cylinder not extending far enough to lift my mill from the factory lifting eye though. I just replaced the cylinder with a higher rated one and did some slight modification to the ram to get it to fit. Now it works perfectly but I will probably beef it up further one day.
I've worked in a few shops now and every one had one of these ubiquitous import units. They probably all come out of the same factory but get painted different colors. And yes, I've been guilty of misusing them just like most people but I have to say I'm impressed as I've never seen someone bend one before like this. I agree though in that the general geometry of the legs and how they mount creates headaches that require boom extension further than one would like, lessening the load capacity. Looking forward to seeing the unit back up and running in part 2, so you can move your machine!
G'Day Everett, yep these little hoist's are everywhere, I used my brothers one to move my Lathe around but didn't want to risk it on this lift. Very glad I didn't or I'd be buying a replacement. Yes those legs always seem to be in the way when lifting off the ground. This is by far the heavy'st lift I would ever do in my little shop so if I can master it with this modified thing everything else will be a breeze. Cam
The best addition to my moving equipment other than one of these cheap hoists is my big Vestil pry lever, which I've usually seen referred to as johnson bar or j-bar, and they are great. It is wonderful for positioning my machinery or lifting it up onto wooden blocks, skates, etc. I've even used multiple steel rods to roll the machines like a makeshift conveyer, and that works well too, you just have to be careful and continue to move them as the machine rolls off of one.
I call them a Jimmy Bar. That's how I manoverd it to it's current position but it's now in front of one of the core holes so the next move is to lift it up and over. Cam
Nice repair to the chinesium unit. I have the same unit at home under another brand except mine has a dual pump unit on it. Pumps on the up and down stroke. I have not used it yet but I am soon but now I have an idea of the weak points. Thanks for sharing. Cheers
Gday Cam, I’ve got the same engine hoist and I agree, there absolutely shit to try and move around with load on it, I’m very surprised I haven’t bent mine yet, I did but the steel to build a gantry crane but the RHS went into a new work bench instead but I still got the I beam, steel isn’t cheap so it’s on t he back burner for a while, the biggest gripe I have with the engine crane is the legs are alway to narrow are in the bloody of everything, I made an “dodgy” extension to that goes in the end to gain about a foot more reach but still doesn’t make it any better to use, awesome video mate, cheers Matty
G'Day Matty, the things we do in our little backyard workshops to get the job done. Interative Design through failure, if I was still designing in industry and worked like this I'd be shot, but this is so much more fun. Cam
The front wheels suck, my old one has larger none steering steel front wheels set into the legs, can still move engine & gearbox on unsealed hard surface. Also used slightly longer extension tube in the top. Good video👍🏻
That is the problem with a part that is at all well-engineered to be just strong enough to carry the rated loads. If you overload the structure and then reinforce what failed, you just keep moving the failure to the next component. And, again if properly engineered, will fail in fairly quick sequence.
G'day LT, yep if you push far enough you can cause a failure in any mechanical mechanism. This rework has now allowed me to achieve my goal of lifting 1600kg and moving the mill out of position so I can have room to refub it. Cam
The first time I moved my mill and lathe I used an engine host. It did not fail but even with somewhat better caster it was difficult to move. I bought a bigger mill ... and I did not relish trying to lift it with an engine host. So I made up 4 sets of wooden wedges out of 4”x6” posts. I lifted one side of the mill about an 1” with a toe jack. Inserted wedges... and lifted the opposite side ... until I had about 2.5” clearance. I then set the machine down on machinery skates and rolled it as needed. Tom Lipton (Oxtools on CZcams ) has a good video on making a toe jack, and Adam Booth (abom79) I think fabricated some skates. Also this month’s issue of Home Shop Machinist has a good article on making skates
G'Day Fred, I was hoping to get away from lifting and packing and skating by using one lift and roll into place. The way I'm going it might have been better to invest in a toe jack and skates. Anyway I'm into it now so lets see if I can get it to work safely, regardless I'll show the result good or bad. Cam
To move my Bridgeport and lathe around my workshop I purchased a mobile girder rail gantry rated at 1000kg and a 2t chain block and it did the trick easily from H&F. Yes I know the rail was underrated, but there was no major flex in that rail and the wheels worked perfectly. Cost was just over $1000 but it was well worth it.
I was interested to see that you slung the machine from under the front and rear of the over-arm. I have a Mk 1 version of this machine and, while the basic structure and over-arm are the same, the recommended sling method (from original manual) is to go under the back of the over-arm and under the front of the knee. I had assumed this implied that the over-arm dovetail was not up to the task. However, you have clearly proved that it is and indeed the manual for the Mk 2 version shows this as the recommended method. This is what I will probably use for any future lifts as it is easier than going under the knee. Cheers, Alan.
G'Day Alan, yep I lifted it exactly as the manual described. I also lifted it this way to get it out of the workshop I brought it from and used a 1T Abby Hoist to lift it with. The only thing I will change in the lifting configuration is to use a Cum-A-Long to support the knee as its front heavy and lifts on an angle. Cam
Nice one Cam. Yes I'm guilty of overloading mine somewhat 😂 I was going to suggest welding the top cylinder clevis through a slot in the SHS so it acts as a stiffener and the truss post, then I realised you'd block off the telescoping section! 😂 If you haven't done it yet, I've seen people modify these so they go from a splayed leg to a wider straight leg to better get around equipment. Might be a good idea if you are already working on the base.
Hi Tom, yep I said to my brother if I rebuild the base I'll make it wider to get around loads on the ground a lot easier. I'll do one more plated rebuild on the base and if it fails I'll go with a beefed up wider footprint like the old Abby Hoists. I must admit your overhead flat back lifting frame has some real appeal. Cam
@@camatbattler2233 I actully thought you had an overhead gantry? It was all pin connections and released allowing more degrees of freedom to prevent binding I seem to recall. Or is it only for light loads?
You are going to have a whole new cherry picker by the time you are done with it. Would a toe jack and roller pipes not be a better option to move the mill?
G'Day Tom, in the area this is going to be placed I still have open holes in the concrete when I jacked up the shed when it sunk. These make it difficult to move with skates or rollers. I like the idea of a straight pickup move and drop. Anyway we'll see how the next round of beefing up goes. Cam
Morning Cam. I have the HF two ton and have been lucky. However, your review works for mine as well. Great to have a proper engineering review to provide some keen insight. I will take the points and add the tweaks to the retirement list. There will be a new shop on my retirement list so everything will need moved (no I will not be relinquishing the current shop as my wife expects - just adding a larger detached annex - LOL). Lumber up here went nuts for no real reason outside of greed and leveraging a crisis. So I will have to wait a bit more. Thanks for all your excellent videos.
could move the top hinge for the hydraulic ram toward the end of the crane arm , this would lower the total lift raise the amount of load the ram could push up but would lessen the load from the ram to the end of the boom (and moves it to negative to the other end ) as for strengthening the lower hinge where the ram mounts to , you could put a tight fitting piece of box section inside the original box section brilliant violinist (watch those fingers ) reminded me of that joke of the patient with the busted hand asking the doctor if he be able to play the violing ....... doctor answers , year the damage isnt too bad .... thats nice said the patient as i never was able to play the darn instrument to start with hmmm the crane actually folds flat when you lower it , think i have a longer ram on mine , probably going to look intoo moving one of the mounts and see if i can fix that as now i have to loosen one side to get the arm to lay flat and allow me to put it away as a smaller package
Mate , i think i would have thrown that thing in the bin . The ram will bend next when at full extension ! H & F sell a reasonable 1000kg beam gantry .
Your probably right Max, I've almost got the next mod completed so we'll see how that goes. Yes, the gantry would be a great option and deal with all the other machines as well, something I'll look at if it all goes pear shaped on this next round. I'll usually flog the horse till its dead. Cam
Is there a raffle to see what bends next? IMO grossly overloading a 500kg lift with 1600kg is a wonderful thing to do. I think you came in first place.
G'day Norris, hopefully this will be the last interation. This will be the heaviest lift it ever has to do. Lift 5mm and move back 500mm. If it drops no dramas. I certainly wouldn't travel any distance with it. Cam
Hello Cam Just found this video and your channel, and I see you have a Victoria U2 mill with a head. I too have the same mill and a vertical head, but I am missing the driving gear, I have the arbor that it is bolted to. can you tell me the OD diameter and how many teeth the drive gear you have for your mill is, this will help greatly in sourcing a replacement. Thank you Peter
G'Day Mark and yes I still like to use a stick over Mig in most applications. That little welder is smaller than an A4 sheet and cost less than $100 and will flog 3mm rods out all day long with good penetration and finish. One of my better buys. Cam
Looking at the truss brace on the origional I am not sure it's about reinforcing at all but it is designed to induce a "safe faliure" by tin canning the top of the beam cusing it to buckle and fail in a predictable way. Rather than waiting for welds to give way or hydraulics to burst.
G'Day Elanman, you could be right and it didn't come down with a thud but rather a "slow" failure. I wouldn't expect the cylinder to fail as its rated at 8T and at that configuration it should be able to lift 2.5T. Anyway I'll see how it goes with the next interation. Cam
Hi Cam Hmmm Don't ask how I know but there is a serious gremlin waiting to catch you. Yet another failure mode with these hoists. Lifting a load without moving it is one thing but if by some chance the castors jam in say a grove or step in the floor and the load swings forward by inertia or swings in a sideways direction, watch out for a spectacular fail when the entire crane flips forward and topples dropping the load. It happened to me. Good luck was on my side and the load and crane was undamaged however my nervous system took sometime to recover! The problem is with these hoists when the jib is fully extended the legs are not far enough forward. The lateral stability of the jib is also minimal. You will be amazed how far you can push the jib sideways. Try standing on the legs and then push the jib each way. This translates to real danger if the floor is not perfectly level. Yes I still use the crane but with extreme care and vigilance. I only use the fully extended and the position back from it as a last resort. and I never raise the load more than a few cm above the floor when moving. Regards John
G'Day John, totally agree with your comments. Never push the load, only push the legs or base and sweep the floor before moving. I'm hoping the larger castors will give it a smoother ride. As you mention only lift a couple of cm from the ground. Cam
G’day Cam. Looks like you bought a good cylinder, the rest is scrap metal. The key to the failure is in your story, you overloaded it but I have seen these import hoists and I wasn’t impressed. Cheers Peter
G'Day Pete, yep nothing beats the old Aussie made Abby Hoists. These hoist's are cheap and nasty so I'll see if I can improve on it to do the job I need it to do. Cam
YEP, it's rubbish. I wouldn't try lifting a balloon full of air with it and certainly not something valuable as a mill. Thorough inspection and assessment before purchase.
@@rogerdeane3608 G'day Roger, did you see the follow up video on how I frankensteined it to lift 1.6T at full reach. Now it works how I want it to. Cam
It looks like you will have a skookum hoist once you have rebuilt it. I have found that a pallet jack works better when moving around heavy equipment. Most of them are rated for around 2000 kg and are more stable. Waiting to see part 2 and 3 (LOL) of the rebuild and I would have a good hard look at that cylinder to see if it is still straight.
G'Day Mick, yep I must admit I am concerned about the columning effect on the rod. I'm almost considering a lockout shell over the rod once its to length to take the load off it during transport. I've done this before on some unique designs in a past life so it might be worth considering on this one. Cam
At this point would it not just be easy to build a proper crane from scratch that being said I gave up on this sort of thing and just got myself a small walker stacker best investment since my lathe has paid for it’s self in the savings from not seeing the Phiseo
G'Day Aussie, yep in Hindsight building an Abby style crane from scratch would be the way to go. These jobs become a bit of a rabbit hole and we tend to keep going thinking just one more improvement. I'll beef the base up and hopefully that will be the end of it. I hope!! Cam
You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear..............or as the Irish say.......ya can't polish a turd!! These cranes are designed to kill!!! Stavros
What a piece of rubbish that is. I built my own 35Yr ago using 75 X 40 x 4.5 RHS for the sliding extension inside next size up RHS lifts 2 ton quite easy. The ram pivot is to far back, put extra hinge points along the boom for the ram further out toward the lift point so the ram is doing the lifting not the extension. I have 4in solid Rubber tires front with casters at back using 60 x 100 rollers from pallet truck wheels so it can be used outside. I have had the front of Chamberlain tractors ( 2 ton ) hanging from it. Use in my work shop fitting hundreds of engines.
Toe Jack and Skates. Engine cranes scare me for anything bigger than an engine. Hoist don't roll worth a damn compared to skates. I can push my mill across my garage with one hand.
@@camatbattler2233 I made some skates last weekend. 1/2" plate, some 5/8" drill rod and a bunch of cheap chinese bearings. 3 skates cost me 60bucks all in. The tricky part was the toe jack. I made that from scrap and a bottle jack. I just hate engine cranes.
"It is a bit flimsy", "It is rated to 2 ton". It is rated to 2 ton if the arm is in the clearly marked 2 ton position. It appears flimsy because it is built to a price, with the expectation that it's limitations ( as marked) will be observed. Of course they could build a "less flimsy" stronger one, it would cost more! I have had one of these for over ten years. If used within it's clearly stated limitations it works just fine. If you lift 1,600kg with a crane labeled at 500kg, you cannot compain if it fails. You cannot critique the design based on the failure due to onverload.
G'day Charles, yep I was fully aware of the limitations and what it is designed to. Even though it states it is rated to carry and move a set load of 2T the casters are only rated to 150Kg's. Unfortunately to achieve the rated load of 2T the boom needs to be sucked in which makes it useless where the lift point is beyond its reach. Look at my follow up video where I modified it to lift 1600Kg at full reach, this makes it far more useful for my purposes. As I state, to lift this load is a very rare occurrence but to be able to lift double that load certainly extends it usefulness in the shop. czcams.com/video/BzBqq7Fnigs/video.html
@@camatbattler2233 You are right the design can (and you did) modify it to increase it's lift capacity. I don't know what my casters are rated at but the point is that the design calls for the 2 ton to be lifted well inboard of the outer castors. The load is therefor shared with the other castors. By lifting at the full extended boom almost all the weight is on 2 x castors. If the crane is rated at 0.5 ton at full boom extention, you cannot compain if the castors fail at 2 tons. The crane is cheap and is rated for the give load limitations . Congratulations on improving it's performance. You showed that the whole sturucture needed to be strengthened, which is just as you would expect. My only point was that you should not overly critisise a design because it failed trying to do something that the designer never intended it to do. By the way, i enjoyed your video.
They really should design the hoist such that the pressure relief valve in the jack opens before an overload is achieved that could physically damage the hoist. Just poor design.
That may not quite work out. If the boom is fully retacted to lift 2000kg as per its rating the cylinder may need 10,000 psi to do the lift, it may only need say 8,000 psi to lift 500kg at Max extension so putting a relief in to suit the lift in one position may not allow you to reach capacity at another position. I haven't done the numbers but this could be the situation. Cam
@@camatbattler2233 The weight ratings at the extended positions are simply the weight rating at the fully retracted position derated based on the moment arm. The load on the ram is the same for all positions if they have done their calculations correctly. The ram should have a pressure relief valve that refuses to take additional pressure once the max load rating is achieved. Structural failure is never a suitable failure mode for hydraulic equipment.
G'day LT, and that's why I said it may not quite work out. If I had the inclination to do a simple bending moment calc at each lift point I could say for certain if the pressure ratio's would work out the same at each lifting point. But there's more things to do in life. It now lifts 1.6T at Max reach so I'm happy. Cam
Hare & Forbes rates these at 1 ton, not 2. At 2 ton (on the shortest arm) there is zero safety margin, and probably optimistic. But think about how little money you spent on it. Those old Aussie lifters cost a month's wages. This cost a couple of hour's wages. We bitch about Chinese quality but the problem is in our expectations. They can get away with selling us dangerous rubbish as we can't sue them. We're the stupid ones for buying this crap.
Hello Cam,
Good to see you... This is an interesting project... I must admit when you hand the mill hanging there I was really hoping nothing would fail and the mill get damaged... See you on the next one.
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks Paul, I'll keep going until I get a result. Almost feels like I'm playing Kerplunk at the moment.
Cam
Never ever weld a cross the top of a lifting beam. You automatically create a weak point in the boom. The end stiffener is ok as is the butt end, but the knuckle for the hoist only longitudinal welds. Only use low hydrogen electrodes or mig! Beefing up the boom only, is akin to hanging a 3 ton chain block off a 1 ton chain block expecting to lift a 4 ton load……lol
Very nice repair and rectification Cam. I was watching you lifting that heavy mill at the end of the video and I was thinking, “I wonder if the bottom end will fail”! Well bugger, the bstrd did. Sorry to see this happen buddy. No doubt you will rebuild the entire unit now. Cheers 🍻, Aaron
Yep Aaron, my gut also said the base structure would be the next to go. I took it over to my brothers workshop where he has a bigger press than mine and straightened it all out. I'll plate it all in and have another go and see if anything else fails. Its called intuitive design from failure, something I can get away with in my little side show shop but industry would look at it quite differently. Goldsmith is on this weekend!!
Cam
I had no idea about Fallshaw castors - Made in Australia ! Amazing. Thanks !! I just downloaded their catalogue.
Hi DDB, yep their a good quality unit. The other companys wheels and casters I use is Richmond, made in Melbourne.
Cam
I've been fortunate with my Harbor Freight hoist. I did have issues with the hydraulic cylinder not extending far enough to lift my mill from the factory lifting eye though. I just replaced the cylinder with a higher rated one and did some slight modification to the ram to get it to fit. Now it works perfectly but I will probably beef it up further one day.
I've worked in a few shops now and every one had one of these ubiquitous import units. They probably all come out of the same factory but get painted different colors. And yes, I've been guilty of misusing them just like most people but I have to say I'm impressed as I've never seen someone bend one before like this. I agree though in that the general geometry of the legs and how they mount creates headaches that require boom extension further than one would like, lessening the load capacity. Looking forward to seeing the unit back up and running in part 2, so you can move your machine!
G'Day Everett, yep these little hoist's are everywhere, I used my brothers one to move my Lathe around but didn't want to risk it on this lift. Very glad I didn't or I'd be buying a replacement. Yes those legs always seem to be in the way when lifting off the ground. This is by far the heavy'st lift I would ever do in my little shop so if I can master it with this modified thing everything else will be a breeze.
Cam
The best addition to my moving equipment other than one of these cheap hoists is my big Vestil pry lever, which I've usually seen referred to as johnson bar or j-bar, and they are great. It is wonderful for positioning my machinery or lifting it up onto wooden blocks, skates, etc. I've even used multiple steel rods to roll the machines like a makeshift conveyer, and that works well too, you just have to be careful and continue to move them as the machine rolls off of one.
I call them a Jimmy Bar. That's how I manoverd it to it's current position but it's now in front of one of the core holes so the next move is to lift it up and over.
Cam
Nice repair to the chinesium unit. I have the same unit at home under another brand except mine has a dual pump unit on it. Pumps on the up and down stroke. I have not used it yet but I am soon but now I have an idea of the weak points. Thanks for sharing. Cheers
G'Day Yves, I hope your lift goes better than mine but I did push it well over its limits.
Cam
Gday Cam, I’ve got the same engine hoist and I agree, there absolutely shit to try and move around with load on it, I’m very surprised I haven’t bent mine yet, I did but the steel to build a gantry crane but the RHS went into a new work bench instead but I still got the I beam, steel isn’t cheap so it’s on t he back burner for a while, the biggest gripe I have with the engine crane is the legs are alway to narrow are in the bloody of everything, I made an “dodgy” extension to that goes in the end to gain about a foot more reach but still doesn’t make it any better to use, awesome video mate, cheers Matty
G'Day Matty, the things we do in our little backyard workshops to get the job done. Interative Design through failure, if I was still designing in industry and worked like this I'd be shot, but this is so much more fun.
Cam
Nice work. Fun lesson in mechanical engineering.
Thanks for looking in and commenting Rob. I call it Intrerative design from failure. Not the most effective way to get the job done but it works.
Cam
The front wheels suck, my old one has larger none steering steel front wheels set into the legs, can still move engine & gearbox on unsealed hard surface. Also used slightly longer extension tube in the top. Good video👍🏻
That is the problem with a part that is at all well-engineered to be just strong enough to carry the rated loads. If you overload the structure and then reinforce what failed, you just keep moving the failure to the next component. And, again if properly engineered, will fail in fairly quick sequence.
G'day LT, yep if you push far enough you can cause a failure in any mechanical mechanism. This rework has now allowed me to achieve my goal of lifting 1600kg and moving the mill out of position so I can have room to refub it.
Cam
Awesome bros 👏
The first time I moved my mill and lathe I used an engine host. It did not fail but even with somewhat better caster it was difficult to move. I bought a bigger mill ... and I did not relish trying to lift it with an engine host. So I made up 4 sets of wooden wedges out of 4”x6” posts. I lifted one side of the mill about an 1” with a toe jack. Inserted wedges... and lifted the opposite side ... until I had about 2.5” clearance. I then set the machine down on machinery skates and rolled it as needed. Tom Lipton (Oxtools on CZcams ) has a good video on making a toe jack, and Adam Booth (abom79) I think fabricated some skates. Also this month’s issue of Home Shop Machinist has a good article on making skates
G'Day Fred, I was hoping to get away from lifting and packing and skating by using one lift and roll into place. The way I'm going it might have been better to invest in a toe jack and skates. Anyway I'm into it now so lets see if I can get it to work safely, regardless I'll show the result good or bad.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 “my” toe jack cost me 2 pints for 1 Weeks use
To move my Bridgeport and lathe around my workshop I purchased a mobile girder rail gantry rated at 1000kg and a 2t chain block and it did the trick easily from H&F. Yes I know the rail was underrated, but there was no major flex in that rail and the wheels worked perfectly. Cost was just over $1000 but it was well worth it.
That is a very good option and I would have the head room. I've almost got this sorted so I'll see how it goes.
Cam
I was interested to see that you slung the machine from under the front and rear of the over-arm. I have a Mk 1 version of this machine and, while the basic structure and over-arm are the same, the recommended sling method (from original manual) is to go under the back of the over-arm and under the front of the knee. I had assumed this implied that the over-arm dovetail was not up to the task. However, you have clearly proved that it is and indeed the manual for the Mk 2 version shows this as the recommended method. This is what I will probably use for any future lifts as it is easier than going under the knee. Cheers, Alan.
G'Day Alan, yep I lifted it exactly as the manual described. I also lifted it this way to get it out of the workshop I brought it from and used a 1T Abby Hoist to lift it with. The only thing I will change in the lifting configuration is to use a Cum-A-Long to support the knee as its front heavy and lifts on an angle.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 That reminds me of an advantage of slinging under the front of the knee - it puts the CofG pretty much under the hook...
Alan
Nice one Cam. Yes I'm guilty of overloading mine somewhat 😂
I was going to suggest welding the top cylinder clevis through a slot in the SHS so it acts as a stiffener and the truss post, then I realised you'd block off the telescoping section! 😂
If you haven't done it yet, I've seen people modify these so they go from a splayed leg to a wider straight leg to better get around equipment. Might be a good idea if you are already working on the base.
Hi Tom, yep I said to my brother if I rebuild the base I'll make it wider to get around loads on the ground a lot easier. I'll do one more plated rebuild on the base and if it fails I'll go with a beefed up wider footprint like the old Abby Hoists. I must admit your overhead flat back lifting frame has some real appeal.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 I actully thought you had an overhead gantry? It was all pin connections and released allowing more degrees of freedom to prevent binding I seem to recall. Or is it only for light loads?
You are going to have a whole new cherry picker by the time you are done with it. Would a toe jack and roller pipes not be a better option to move the mill?
G'Day Tom, in the area this is going to be placed I still have open holes in the concrete when I jacked up the shed when it sunk. These make it difficult to move with skates or rollers. I like the idea of a straight pickup move and drop. Anyway we'll see how the next round of beefing up goes.
Cam
Morning Cam. I have the HF two ton and have been lucky. However, your review works for mine as well. Great to have a proper engineering review to provide some keen insight.
I will take the points and add the tweaks to the retirement list. There will be a new shop on my retirement list so everything will need moved (no I will not be relinquishing the current shop as my wife expects - just adding a larger detached annex - LOL). Lumber up here went nuts for no real reason outside of greed and leveraging a crisis. So I will have to wait a bit more.
Thanks for all your excellent videos.
could move the top hinge for the hydraulic ram toward the end of the crane arm , this would lower the total lift raise the amount of load the ram could push up but would lessen the load from the ram to the end of the boom (and moves it to negative to the other end )
as for strengthening the lower hinge where the ram mounts to , you could put a tight fitting piece of box section inside the original box section
brilliant violinist (watch those fingers ) reminded me of that joke of the patient with the busted hand asking the doctor if he be able to play the violing ....... doctor answers , year the damage isnt too bad .... thats nice said the patient as i never was able to play the darn instrument to start with
hmmm the crane actually folds flat when you lower it , think i have a longer ram on mine , probably going to look intoo moving one of the mounts and see if i can fix that as now i have to loosen one side to get the arm to lay flat and allow me to put it away as a smaller package
Mate , i think i would have thrown that thing in the bin . The ram will bend next when at full extension ! H & F sell a reasonable 1000kg beam gantry .
Your probably right Max, I've almost got the next mod completed so we'll see how that goes. Yes, the gantry would be a great option and deal with all the other machines as well, something I'll look at if it all goes pear shaped on this next round. I'll usually flog the horse till its dead.
Cam
Is there a raffle to see what bends next? IMO grossly overloading a 500kg lift with 1600kg is a wonderful thing to do. I think you came in first place.
G'day Norris, hopefully this will be the last interation. This will be the heaviest lift it ever has to do. Lift 5mm and move back 500mm. If it drops no dramas. I certainly wouldn't travel any distance with it.
Cam
Hello Cam
Just found this video and your channel, and I see you have a Victoria U2 mill with a head. I too have the same mill and a vertical head, but I am missing the driving gear, I have the arbor that it is bolted to.
can you tell me the OD diameter and how many teeth the drive gear you have for your mill is, this will help greatly in sourcing a replacement.
Thank you
Peter
Yep, I'll get back to you.
Cam
Peter, can you flick me your email address.
Cam
That's why i like small machines. Much easier to move around.
The battle goes on @ the Battler Workshop.
It's nice to see some proper (stick) welding for a change. Not the spray and pray MIG that I do.
lmao.. Spray and pray.. Yup, see a lot of that here on youtube.
G'Day Mark and yes I still like to use a stick over Mig in most applications. That little welder is smaller than an A4 sheet and cost less than $100 and will flog 3mm rods out all day long with good penetration and finish. One of my better buys.
Cam
Looking at the truss brace on the origional I am not sure it's about reinforcing at all but it is designed to induce a "safe faliure" by tin canning the top of the beam cusing it to buckle and fail in a predictable way. Rather than waiting for welds to give way or hydraulics to burst.
G'Day Elanman, you could be right and it didn't come down with a thud but rather a "slow" failure. I wouldn't expect the cylinder to fail as its rated at 8T and at that configuration it should be able to lift 2.5T. Anyway I'll see how it goes with the next interation.
Cam
Hi Cam
Hmmm
Don't ask how I know but there is a serious gremlin waiting to catch you. Yet another failure mode with these hoists.
Lifting a load without moving it is one thing but if by some chance the castors jam in say a grove or step in the floor and the load swings forward by inertia or swings in a sideways direction, watch out for a spectacular fail when the entire crane flips forward and topples dropping the load. It happened to me. Good luck was on my side and the load and crane was undamaged however my nervous system took sometime to recover! The problem is with these hoists when the jib is fully extended the legs are not far enough forward. The lateral stability of the jib is also minimal. You will be amazed how far you can push the jib sideways. Try standing on the legs and then push the jib each way. This translates to real danger if the floor is not perfectly level. Yes I still use the crane but with extreme care and vigilance. I only use the fully extended and the position back from it as a last resort. and I never raise the load more than a few cm above the floor when moving.
Regards
John
G'Day John, totally agree with your comments. Never push the load, only push the legs or base and sweep the floor before moving. I'm hoping the larger castors will give it a smoother ride. As you mention only lift a couple of cm from the ground.
Cam
👍👍😎👍👍
Mine bananad in the same exact way
G'Day Marcus, yep I'm sure quite a few have gone the same way.
Cam
G’day Cam. Looks like you bought a good cylinder, the rest is scrap metal. The key to the failure is in your story, you overloaded it but I have seen these import hoists and I wasn’t impressed.
Cheers
Peter
G'Day Pete, yep nothing beats the old Aussie made Abby Hoists. These hoist's are cheap and nasty so I'll see if I can improve on it to do the job I need it to do.
Cam
YEP, it's rubbish. I wouldn't try lifting a balloon full of air with it and certainly not something valuable as a mill. Thorough inspection and assessment before purchase.
@@rogerdeane3608 G'day Roger, did you see the follow up video on how I frankensteined it to lift 1.6T at full reach. Now it works how I want it to.
Cam
It looks like you will have a skookum hoist once you have rebuilt it. I have found that a pallet jack works better when moving around heavy equipment. Most of them are rated for around 2000 kg and are more stable. Waiting to see part 2 and 3 (LOL) of the rebuild and I would have a good hard look at that cylinder to see if it is still straight.
Watch the piston rod, I don't think the chineesium will handle that sort of load at that extension.
G'Day Mick, yep I must admit I am concerned about the columning effect on the rod. I'm almost considering a lockout shell over the rod once its to length to take the load off it during transport. I've done this before on some unique designs in a past life so it might be worth considering on this one.
Cam
At this point would it not just be easy to build a proper crane from scratch that being said I gave up on this sort of thing and just got myself a small walker stacker best investment since my lathe has paid for it’s self in the savings from not seeing the Phiseo
G'Day Aussie, yep in Hindsight building an Abby style crane from scratch would be the way to go. These jobs become a bit of a rabbit hole and we tend to keep going thinking just one more improvement. I'll beef the base up and hopefully that will be the end of it. I hope!!
Cam
Rechinesation)
You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear..............or as the Irish say.......ya can't polish a turd!!
These cranes are designed to kill!!!
Stavros
sorry but that was funny its what happend to me tried to lift a mill ram went up but the lags just bent the ram is now in a home made press
What a piece of rubbish that is. I built my own 35Yr ago using 75 X 40 x 4.5 RHS for the sliding extension inside next size up RHS lifts 2 ton quite easy. The ram pivot is to far back, put extra hinge points along the boom for the ram further out toward the lift point so the ram is doing the lifting not the extension. I have 4in solid Rubber tires front with casters at back using 60 x 100 rollers from pallet truck wheels so it can be used outside. I have had the front of Chamberlain tractors ( 2 ton ) hanging from it. Use in my work shop fitting hundreds of engines.
Toe Jack and Skates. Engine cranes scare me for anything bigger than an engine. Hoist don't roll worth a damn compared to skates. I can push my mill across my garage with one hand.
G'Day worldtraveler, yep I tend to agree with you there. Anyway I'm down in the rabbit hole now so lets see how we go.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 I made some skates last weekend. 1/2" plate, some 5/8" drill rod and a bunch of cheap chinese bearings. 3 skates cost me 60bucks all in. The tricky part was the toe jack. I made that from scrap and a bottle jack. I just hate engine cranes.
I think it would have been easier to have just built your own from scratch rather than having to rebuild the "chinesium " one several times
"It is a bit flimsy", "It is rated to 2 ton".
It is rated to 2 ton if the arm is in the clearly marked 2 ton position.
It appears flimsy because it is built to a price, with the expectation that it's limitations ( as marked) will be observed.
Of course they could build a "less flimsy" stronger one, it would cost more!
I have had one of these for over ten years.
If used within it's clearly stated limitations it works just fine.
If you lift 1,600kg with a crane labeled at 500kg, you cannot compain if it fails.
You cannot critique the design based on the failure due to onverload.
G'day Charles, yep I was fully aware of the limitations and what it is designed to. Even though it states it is rated to carry and move a set load of 2T the casters are only rated to 150Kg's. Unfortunately to achieve the rated load of 2T the boom needs to be sucked in which makes it useless where the lift point is beyond its reach. Look at my follow up video where I modified it to lift 1600Kg at full reach, this makes it far more useful for my purposes. As I state, to lift this load is a very rare occurrence but to be able to lift double that load certainly extends it usefulness in the shop.
czcams.com/video/BzBqq7Fnigs/video.html
@@camatbattler2233 You are right the design can (and you did) modify it to increase it's lift capacity.
I don't know what my casters are rated at but the point is that the design calls for the 2 ton to be lifted well inboard of the outer castors. The load is therefor shared with the other castors.
By lifting at the full extended boom almost all the weight is on 2 x castors.
If the crane is rated at 0.5 ton at full boom extention, you cannot compain if the castors fail at 2 tons.
The crane is cheap and is rated for the give load limitations
.
Congratulations on improving it's performance.
You showed that the whole sturucture needed to be strengthened, which is just as you would expect.
My only point was that you should not overly critisise a design because it failed trying to do something that the designer never intended it to do.
By the way, i enjoyed your video.
Come on now these piles of Chinese Shiz won’t lift 1/4 ton remotely safe
They really should design the hoist such that the pressure relief valve in the jack opens before an overload is achieved that could physically damage the hoist. Just poor design.
That may not quite work out. If the boom is fully retacted to lift 2000kg as per its rating the cylinder may need 10,000 psi to do the lift, it may only need say 8,000 psi to lift 500kg at Max extension so putting a relief in to suit the lift in one position may not allow you to reach capacity at another position. I haven't done the numbers but this could be the situation.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 The weight ratings at the extended positions are simply the weight rating at the fully retracted position derated based on the moment arm. The load on the ram is the same for all positions if they have done their calculations correctly. The ram should have a pressure relief valve that refuses to take additional pressure once the max load rating is achieved. Structural failure is never a suitable failure mode for hydraulic equipment.
G'day LT, and that's why I said it may not quite work out. If I had the inclination to do a simple bending moment calc at each lift point I could say for certain if the pressure ratio's would work out the same at each lifting point. But there's more things to do in life. It now lifts 1.6T at Max reach so I'm happy.
Cam
@@camatbattler2233 No need for bending moment calcs. Just simple moment equilibrium about the pivot pin.
lol
Hare & Forbes rates these at 1 ton, not 2. At 2 ton (on the shortest arm) there is zero safety margin, and probably optimistic. But think about how little money you spent on it. Those old Aussie lifters cost a month's wages. This cost a couple of hour's wages. We bitch about Chinese quality but the problem is in our expectations. They can get away with selling us dangerous rubbish as we can't sue them. We're the stupid ones for buying this crap.