The Bible: Tough Qs and Answers
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- How did we get the Bible? How many variants of the early manuscripts are there? Can we trust our biblical texts? Joining me today is New Testament scholar Dr. Peter Gurry and Old Testament scholar Dr. John Meade to discuss the trustworthiness of Scripture and how we can have confidence in our biblical text.
READ: Scribes and Scripture: The Amazing Story of How We Got the Bible, by John D. Meade and Peter J. Gurry (amz.run/68IN)
READ: A Rebel's Manifesto, by Sean McDowell (amzn.to/3u8s2Oz)
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An atheist here, very curious about your channel and your way to live Christianism.
I appreciate that thank you. I try to get some thoughtful guests and have civil discussions with them!
Hello sir I'm not trying to be antagonistic please do not misunderstand me. I'm curious on what evidence you have on saying there is no God? I can understand someone who says they are agnostic, but have yet to understand why someone claims that there is no God.
I pray you won't dismiss the possibility off God's existence, without thoroughly pondering the various arguments about His existence. Cosmological argument, intelligence design and fine tuning of the universe, objective morality.
I consider the Bible, a wonderful source for individual and collective living. It's teachings are always aiming for the greater good of people and not to benefit any Hierarchy. Not to mention the clear prophetic events fulfilled in the life of Christ and others. I ask my God to bless you beyond measure.
May God bless you, Loues
I just saw this comment and said a prayer for you! For by grace are ye saved through faith not of yourselves but it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man boast. Praying that you are reading the Bible to seek salvation and truth for your life. Jesus took our place paid the price for our sin. Be blood bought today. He loves you this much!
I want to see the follow-up to this. I liked these guests. John is entertaining. Peter has a great point at the end.
Im so thankful for your Sean and your guests. The work you do and the content you put out has help me grow in my faith in more ways than I can count. As someone with a critical mind that often times buts heads with my faith, you and the people you’ve brought in here has helped me resolved so many issue that I once thought were a roadblock in my journey of faith. Evidence that demands a verdict still sits next to my bed and something I go back to read from almost daily. Thank you for all you do.
So amazing. Such a fun conversation. Delightful.
What a great discussion! I'm currently seeking the truth and has questions especially encountering the likes of Bart Ehrman and all that, but this episode strengthened my faith especially their last words towards the end. I, too need to ponder about God's Providence and how he allowed human means with all its imperfections to deliver His perfect message to us. So many things to reflect ❤
Thank you so very much😊!
Id love to see a conversation about denominations, and what the word "denomination" means and what the Bible says about divisions in the body of Christ
Thanks
This was fascinating. I have their book in my reading list and am looking forward to reading it.
Thanks for watching. Get their book, it's a great read.
Fantastic I absolutely love your channel and all of the scholars you bring on. Keep up the great work. Your channel should/will be much bigger.
Thanks Danny!
Thank you. What a great episode.
Thx!
I really enjoyed this episode. Many of my questions were answered.
Very interesting! An episode on canonization would be amazing!
Agreed. I’ll do it in the new year. Thanks for the encouragement to do so.
Goliath may have been shorter, but wore elevator shoes!😂
The height of Goliath issue: have you heard there were two or more cubits depending where you were from? That could account for the different numbers without saying the scribes misread or changed something for their own liking. That is alarming and undermines the word. A quick google search show the cubit has varied from 17.5” to 20”. A height of just 6’ for Goliath clearly would not be a giant. The translation integrity of copying what God said, not what you want it to say is critical.
Thank you once again Dr Sean McDowell. I could not look away, I was spellbound. Forgive the term, lol. You and your friends here were a pleasure, truly encouraging. I may be even still more inspired in my Bible reading tomorrow morning. God bless you all 3, you all do great work.
I’m so glad you enjoyed this one, Darren!
@@SeanMcDowell just found another explanation for how the church got hellenized and it was a "conspiracy" it was a consequence. The destruction of temple and the rebellion in 135 ad initiated a persecution of Jews, including messianic Jews who were not only in danger of being killed as Christians but also as Jews and had to hide or flee from the west. The Greek or gentile christians then had to copy the Hebrew into Greek for the liturgical language which may have been Hebrew because the Messianic Jews were gone. That's what Papias is talking about at about 136 ad when he says the hebrew scripture had to be translated into Greek and "they did the best they could". And that's why we have so many Greek texts because the Messianic Jews had left with the Hebrew texts probably fleeing further out into the diaspora. Then after Nicea Jerome who had went to the Jewish community and probably Messianic Jews has Hebrew that he translated from into Latin as Eusebius says and those Hebrew scriptures were kept but not used because they being gentiles didn't speak Hebrew. Now in the diaspora the Messianic Jews probably went to Spain and Portugal with the Sephardic Jews and that's why the inquisition in Spain was so massive and included messianic arguments specifically against catholicism.
I think this would explain a lot!
And when king James later expelled the Jews while the Bible was being translated this probably included a significant messianic population that would have critiqued the translation and that's why King James didn't want them there.
Now I'm not saying everything messianic Jews teach is without question but I'm right this explains how we did get so far away from Apostolic style community and interpretation and it's at least worth an exploration.
@@SeanMcDowell this tracking of Messianic Judaism is explaining a lot.
Ok, king James (I think it was James) expelled the Jews, and intended to make england the new Israel with the Bible as the source of law (how that affects the translation is beside the point) then the Jews including the Messianic Jews return BUT now as protestants the Messianic Jews now can speak more freely. So the Hebrew roots wasn't a gentile prostestant endeavor but a consequence of Messianic voice, and this aided along with the great commission the evolution of the British empire and the development of British israelism as an interpretation of prophecy as the major impediment to catholicism. British israelism has been poo pooed but it was an influence in parliament and policy and should be included in our protestant study of the reformation regardless of what you believe. This was the age of typologys in the reformation, the RCC was the great whore, Britain the new Israel, and Hebrew roots come into the open and is carried over into the united states to unite the US and Britain in the Balfour declaration and recreation of the state of Israel. HOWEVER here the hebrew roots had to be abandoned because to accomplish that Balfour had placate the RCC to some degree because of it's influence in the US and Balfour co opts Darby's dispensationalism which both required the state of Israel and took the heat off the papacy until the rapture, and to achieve that the Scofield Bible is popularized and seminaries like Dallas require it to be taught because it supports US policy or at least doesn't impede it. That's why Billy Graham leaves Mordecai Hamm a British israelism preacher and becomes Nixon's darling while preaching dispensationalism and creating the coalition to sign the LAUSANNE COVENANT to support the UN DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS. Which brings us back into the hellenized Christianity leads to progressive Christianity which takes the Palestinian side keeps Israel under thumb and creates the present success of catholics in converting evangelicals whose only staunch opposition now are those moving into messianic Jewish Christianity.
@@SeanMcDowell Wow, look up John Chrysostom against the Jews homily 1, that's specifically about driving messianic Jews and practice out of the church! He says many of our number have these Jewish practices. So after Nicea there was a purge of Messianic Judaism from the church.
Then back from there I was looking at the earlier against the Jews literature, but why was it necessary? Jews didn't care about gentiles becoming Christians, it was about Jews trying to deconvert messianic Jews or prevent Jews from becoming messianic, just look at how the arguments are formed.
Hey, If possible, I would be interested to learm more about why exactly that one scholar thinks that Goliath being 9 ft tall was the original and correct reading. Maybe you could shoot him a short email asking him to elaborate on that more?
Why was the debate between Titus Kennedy and David Falk removed? I was halfway through it.
Peter is right don't miss the trees looking at the Forest
It seems to me that, the root of a lot of these types of discussions, is not the specific details of the question at hand (e.g. - the height of Goliath), but rather whether or not the Bible, which we as Christians hold forth as the Word of God, can be trusted or not. This is an interesting, though sometimes frustrating and confounding, discussion
JUST A THOUGHT:
I was thinking about Goliath from this perspective. How stupid do we have to be to believe that a six foot tall man had the armies of Israel cowering like a bunch of school girls? No, both historically, textually, and archeologically, it is easy to establish as a fact, that there were giants in the earth in those days. [Not to mention that we still have people growing to amazing heights today.]
I agree with NT Wright in that the so called Gospel of Thomas doesn't meet the definition of a Gospel at all, in that it does not even attempt to express the good news of the Incarnation or resurrection. It's late and depicts a very different theology, a non Jewish Jesus, which has caused so much pain and suffering across two millennia.
I may be wrong because by the time I remember what I'm looking for I forgot I was looking for it lol; why does my Bible (NASB1995) have so many quotation marks at the beginning of sentences but not at the end?
I still really want to see u talk to someone about universalism/annihilationism, sometime…the years almost over, Sean, and u said you’d do so sometime this year, last year… 😓😓
Great, faith strengthening discussion from Sean and colleagues. I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian and pastor, and am always edified by Sean's presentations and interviews, finding them to be uplifting, spiritually enriching, and useful to Bible believing Christians from all denominations.
The discussion of the height of Goliath of Gath is interesting. If the Bible is understood to be God's contextual rebuilding and building of truth after the Noachian Flood (the earliest biblical books, Job and the Pentateuch, are postdiluvian products, attributed to Moses), then the authenticity of the Bible is not challenged by occasional semantic obscurities, and some apparent numerical garbling. Having said that, I have no problem accepting the Masoretic Text portrayal of Goliath of Gath as "six cubits and a span" (1 Sam 17:4), converted to 9 feet tall in this discussion. Where there is an established, general upper limit in a species, such as seven feet tall in humans, routinely and continually, a tiny minority of humans exceed this, as may be observed, for instance, in the annals of wrestling, and in the Guinness Book of World Records. It would be scientifically incongruous for not one human, not one tree, not one pumpkin, not one elephant, not one giraffe, not one shark or whale, to exceed its average species size limit. This has never happened anywhere on Earth, at any time, and may not ever be achievable, this side of heaven, at least. Also, if Goliath's height is scaled down to seven feet tall - the general upper limit of height for humans generationally - his armor in 1 Samuel 17:5-7 (and his weaponry) must also be scaled down accordingly. Together with many lines of evidence, such as those observable in the text of 1 Samuel, extraordinary, hypermuscularity of certain groups of athletes in contemporary developed countries, to a significantly less abnormal extent in developing countries, and at the expense of bone strength and durability, and cardiovascular health, very vividly indicates that, as the money and war intensifies, the sizes escalate catastrophically. God bless!
Thanks for watching and I’m glad it’s faith encouraging. The height of Goliath does fascinate me too!
@@SeanMcDowell thank you for your response, and encouragement. May God continue to use you and your colleagues in a special way, to reach humankind with the saving truths of the Bible. A book such as the Bible, which addresses spiritual needs, financial guidance, public health, medical, nutritional, and family matters, and generally speaks comprehensively to the human experience, never loses its value and timeless appeal. Programs such as yours complement the work of the Bible Societies, in distributing Bibles and Bible based literature. God bless!
As for the tabernacle the LXX makes more sense. Ex. 26:17 "Two joints shalt thou make in one post, answering the one to the other: so shalt thou do to all the posts of the tabernacle." This means each of the frames is divided in half with a joint such that they fit together. That way a 15 foot frame is broken into two 7.5 foot sections that can be handled easier and carried on a cart or a donkey.
Why was the Exodus video taken down ?
Hi Dr. McDowell, I am wondering about how the KJV only club believe that their version of the Bible is correct and without error and all the other versions are corrupt. What do you think?
I noticed a lot of churches are adding to their inherency statements “original version.” Who’s going to determine that?
me too. It's a classic dodge for them to allow themselves to make up nonsense since there are no original versions.
Atheist here: I'd recommend being charitable here because the discipline of textual criticism has established with a high degree of confidence, what the original text would have been, even if the manuscripts themselves are no longer extant. One reasons why organizations put in that caveat, is that they are aware there are minor translation and grammar errors etc that have crept into various manuscript traditions.
@@Kvothe3 I agree.
Sean, could you bring on a scholar to talk about "Q"? Is scholarship on Q a bit on the fringe or is it something believers need to consider? It's a source of scholarship but seems incredibly speculative for never having found a Q text.
Oooh, good idea!
@@SeanMcDowell Thank you! Love the channel and content by the way. Keep up the great work.
Oh my gosh, will we ever get rid of the damage Dan Brown did?
Peter was very clear with his basketball analogy. John said a lot of words but I didn't get anything out of his discussion
It’s sad how people turn to the media for their understanding of the Bible
Question? Which books(scrolls) were available during Jesus’s time-available for him to read in Jerusalem and in the local synagogues? For example did they read the Maccabee’s in the temple?
Maccabees existed, and Jesus probably read it during his studies, but it wouldn't have been read in the temple or synagogue as part of a religious ceremony because it wasn't part of the Tanakh.
How tall was Og?
It foolish to think that people were not writing from the beginning of creation.
Would you mind reviewing Numbers 31 and explaining it slowly? Is it accurate to original texts? Translated well?
that'll be fun to watch SEan try to excuse his god for being a monster.
Slowly: because you can't follow at normal speed ?
@@davidjanbaz7728 You thinks that's why I said slowly?
You can check via the Hebrew I suppose.
@@velkyn1 if you don’t read the context, it might seem that way. But the midianites started this war by attempting to convert the Israelites to baalam, their own god (num 25). YHWH does not allow this, just like he does not allow any foreign gods to be worshipped by his people. And the reason? He chose then, wanted them to be holy and to be a good example for the world instead of conforming to the world. Sadly, they failed in this more often than not, but that is the story of humanity.
Is the Bible, (esp the supernatural stuff) ''based on history''?
Yep..If the miracles occurred then the miracles are history. For example, the observance of the Passover is the observance of a historic event.. The song of Moses which describes and memorializes the crossing of the Red Sea and the drowning of Pharoah's army describes both a miraculous and historic event.
I have a tough question: why was the debate between Dr. Falk and Dr. Kennedy deleted? I only got halfway through it and planned to finish later.
I would also add He could only use something perfect to prove Himself to be perfect...Our Creator uses His word to prove who He is...His word is perfect because He is perfect...To undermind His word is to undermind Him and what Jesus taught; His word reflects His character and being and exact history that points to His kingdom agenda and promise of restoration...A reflection of God Himself could only be and always remain perfect...We are only made in His image...Jesus is the exact expression and representation of His Father and God gives His word to us and in John it refers to Jesus as the word...We serve only God and not just any old book reflects His nature, the Bible reflects Him and are His instructions to us along with His plan to restore all things new...We serve God and follow His word in the most upmost respect and have no room to bring the bible down or undermind His authority through His word...The bible is the Word of God, His word; its not to be put to the side or lowered to an importance that is under Him, because it has came to us reflecting Him and what He has said to us from Himself...
I think Goliath was closer to the 9 mark being apart of the giants God wanted him to make extinct from the fallen angels
The Great Isaiah Scroll from Qumran-perhaps the most famous biblical manuscript on Earth-DOES NOT "match up almost identically" with the Masoretic Text (MT). Quite to the contrary, the editors of this scroll rather convincingly demonstrated at least seven instances in which MT contains a fairly significantly expanded text, which was possibly added as late as the second or first century BCE. It would be great if Christian apologists stopped repeating false information about this and numerous other Dead Sea Scrolls.
The expanded text did not change the message of the shorter version of Isaiah. As was argued in this discussion the expanded text acts as a commentary about Isaiah and not as a correction or different version of Isaiah..
3:09 setting up the straw man...
Charity Jesus. Charity is true love, and love that gives it always believes and hopes. Seek God and his sweet amazing grace while he may be found. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.
Every rule of God was built on thou shalt love the lord your god with all your heart, with all thy soul(: mind will, and emotions), and with all thy mind Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
One aspect of love while there are many (1 Cor 13 KJV), is that it requires a little sacrifice out of hope for something.
Jesus says greater love hath no man than this than to lay one's life down for one's friends.
Every sin that there is requires a bit of uncaring selfishness inside to accomplish.
When someone asks for forgiveness at each point in the past you did something wrong you wish you had done the right thing.
Pray and seek wisdom.
I believe the Holy Bible, The KJV is the most accurate modern English translation. Seek the Kingdom of God first.
Dear Sean - both the Marvel comics and Marvel movies now sadly openly push and promote active homosexuality.
Do you think Christians should distance themselves from appearing to condone/support what Marvel is now standing for?
well, Marvel doesn't need bigots. We got to see that in the X-Man graphic novel "God loves, Man kills".
You’ve already lost on this issue. 80% of people under 40 are fine with gay marriage. Telling people not to watch popular movies will only accelerate the trend of people walking away from bigotry and ignorance.
Yes, and with woke hellywood in general too.
@@velkyn1bigot??? Thats the insult you throw at us for condemning a disgusting unnatural evil sin as that! You're the unrighteous bigot.
@@weirdwilliam8500you mean more and more under 40 are woke, and rebellious in supporting vile sin, and that makes it lawlessness. Try again, slanderer!
If an entire profession of people needs to constantly argue that a book is trustworthy, then it’s probably not trustworthy.
If an entire group of people need to argue that the earth isnt flat, then it's probably flat
@@filler7149 What group? What people are constantly reassuring everyone the world is round despite our doubts? Imploring everyone not to ask too many questions and take it on faith, and just rely on inner emotions? Are there millions of people walking away every year, saying they can’t believe the world is round anymore? No. Your cognitive dissonance is showing.
@@weirdwilliam8500 the people who study the earth idk who they are lol and no one does that. The whole reason they're there is to ASK QUESTIONS. They just dont default to the worst answer. Well no but you're far more likely to get ostracized for saying the earth is flat than you would if you were an athiest. I mean heck they'd probably try get you sectioned or smthn people are really passionate about stuff like that.
Cognitive dissonance implies that I'm not just pulling out dumb one liners like you cause I'm bored.
Calm down sherlock
Begging the question does not make the original question the correct response..
@@weirdwilliam8500 no one said to not ask questions. You're strawmaning.
Funny book about a man made god , some of the stories hilarious Mr Noah and the worldwide flood .
In case anyone finds this helpful or is interested in praying for our Christian ministries/leaders/shepherds/evangelists/apologists like Sean McDowell:
16 prayer points you can pray for them:
1
You can pray that they will always have a good walk with God (that they will not forget their first love), that God will bless their daily private Bible reading and prayer life, and that they will have good sound doctrine.
2
You can pray that they will be full of the Holy Spirit and that God will bless their ministries so that many more people will come to faith in Jesus for God’s glory, and that they will feed God’s sheep and disciple them properly.
3
You can pray that they will be humble, that they will remember how many Christian leaders in the past have fallen, and that they will have a very healthy fear of the Lord.
4
You can pray that God will protect them and the ministry God has given them from:
Pride
Love of fame
Love of money
Desire for the approval of people rather than the approval of God
Being worried about offending people
Compromising God’s Word
Sexual temptation
Demonic attacks
Persecution (from outside the Church and inside the Church)
5
You can pray for their PHYSICAL HEALTH and that God will heal all their health problems.
6
You can pray for their MENTAL HEALTH. Pastors and Christian workers often have stress and battle discouragement and depression. Please God touch them and heal them of all mental and emotional problems and distress.
They can also sometimes be hurt by the people they serve or by other Christian leaders - so we can pray that this won’t happen but that if it does that God will heal these wounds and strengthen His servants to forgive each other and that God will restore unity for His Glory.
7
You can pray that God will bless and protect their families.
Satan often attacks Christian workers by attacking their loved ones.
So you can pray that their family members will all have a good walk with God, have good sound doctrine, that God will protect them all from demonic attacks, that God will also bless and protect their physical and mental health, heal them of all infirmities, and that God will bless all their family relationships so that there is peace and love in their families.
You can pray that God especially blesses and protects all areas and parts of their marriages, so that they will not be tempted to look elsewhere.
Also please God bless their marriages especially so that they can be a model and example for other Christians.
8
You can pray that God will abundantly bless and protect the finances of the ministries and also the personal finances of God’s servants (especially finances needed for health or medical expenses).
You can pray that they always have abundant finances so that they can always do every good work God wants them to do.
9
You can pray that God blesses and protects the relationships between Christian co-workers in ministries - so that no jealousy or strife or bitterness takes root. That they will all have Christian unity and that their focus will be on God getting all the glory and rejoice in any and all work for God.
10
You can pray that God prevents any technical or logistical or legal or any type of problems for their ministry, but if they have any such issues/problems that God will help them resolve/fix and totally solve and remove these problems.
11
If it’s an internet (e.g. CZcams) ministry you can pray that God will help the videos spread on those platforms and get many views and that God will use the videos to bring many people to repentance and faith in Jesus.
12
You can pray that God will help Christian leaders be good shepherds of Jesus’ sheep and continue to feed Jesus’ sheep, and that they will not only convert people, but also disciple new converts so that they can grow and develop and mature in a healthy and supported way.
13
You can pray that God will give them the heart of a servant.
14
You can pray that God gives them wisdom and helps them and powerfully guides them when making all decisions and plans.
15
You can pray that if they make mistakes or sin that God will grant them humility and repentance and restore them.
16
You can pray that more Christians will pray consistently for Christian leaders/pastors/shepherds/workers/ministries.
***********************
You could make a list of pastors/ministries you want to support and pray for them regularly.
Jesus said:
“ when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will REWARD you.”
Matthew 6:6
Amen!
@@terryhuffaker3615 May God bless you and your loved ones abundantly!
What bothers me most is when Christians call the Bible the “Word” of God. They capitalize it like its equal with God. Jesus is the “Word” of God. The Bible did not create the universe. People then use their interpretation and put their own words in God’s mouth.
I agree, I hear them say that the bible is ALIVE as though it is a person.
@@brooklynnlou4 or ever changing and evolving..
it’s history to prove Jesus Christs lineage and authority.
It gives us encouragement and guidance on how to live our best lives. Righteous lives.
But, it’s not evolving, especially to todays cultural and Worldly acceptance, with God’s will, reduced to Man’s desires.
@@Mrs.CGraves So what is this book? Is it perfect? Is it relevant in 2022? Are we to take it at face value?
@@brooklynnlou4 the Bible IS alive through the personal revelation we get while reading it!
@@brooklynnlou4 it’s still inspired. We can learn so much from it. I just don’t like it when people use it like weapon to shame and get power over people. It is hard for me to trust others to interpret it correctly.
"If an entire profession of people needs to constantly argue that a book is trustworthy, then it’s probably not trustworthy." A brilliant quote
It would not be necessary if so many make it their aim to disprove its trustworthiness. I personally see nothing brilliant about that quote.
Sean grow a mustache
That's an interesting suggestion...
in John 6 eat my flesh and drink my blood, the Christ is not talking literally he is talking spiritually now it is the same in Thomas 114 it is the revealing' of Peter and his attitude toward woman which was common among men, Christ replies, I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven." The Christ is talking about giving woman power spiritual power in her heart, which will cause her to rise and become like man having power and freedom. Because at that time, woman was looked at as Peter said, she's not worthy of the life, due to Peter's statement, Christ then replies correcting him, where do you think woman is in the time Christ and the apostles concerning the dominance of man upon them, and their attitude of them, Christ is equalising. What is the state of a man's heart when he has to be told to love his wife, think about it, look at the violence man brings up on woman today, how much more in the days of old or are we simply more ignorant now than then.
😂😂 No sense at all! And from a heretical noncanonacle book! Lol Apocrypha is NOT Scripture!
Amateurs why can’t you just say the author of the gospel of mark just made a mistake and miss quoted the wrong book it happens too bad so sad end of problem but no can’t have that….
The wrong book must exist for you to claim that Mark is quoting the "wrong" book.
@@terryhuffaker3615 yes and the book of Isaiah does exist, and the quote referred to is not in it so later scribes alter the text so that it comes to us in the king James as in the prophets. Correcting the earliest copies of the gospel of mark which claimed the quote was from Isaiah. It’s not its from Malachi.
@@markgallemore8856 Clearly you've never actually read it. Half of the quote is from Malachi and the other half is from Isaiah.
@@grantgooch5834 the point was scribes altered the text, which means the book is not inherent.
@@markgallemore8856 What the hell are you talking about? Mark quotes part of Malachi 3:1 and part of Isaiah 40:3.
Isaiah 40:3 is present in Scroll 1Q Isaiah a, which was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. So if you mean that scribes changed Isaiah, then you're just wrong. If you're talking about Mark 1:2, there are no textual variants that name any prophet besides Isaiah. So if you mean that scribes changed Mark 1:2 to include Isaiah, then you're just wrong. Malachi 3:1 also has no textual variants, so if you mean that scribes changed Malachi then you're just wrong.
Commentaries dating back to the 1800s have suggested that Malachi 3:1 is referencing the passage in Isaiah 40. Even if that isn't the case, it's could also be the case that Mark simply refers to an obviously connected passage by just the major prophet rather than both of them. This view even has intertextual support since he also does this in regards to Jeremiah and Zechariah.
Well, this discussion is about what I expected. First, it does not even address which "the bible" they are speaking of and why that would be the accepted version. There is no such thing as just one "the bible".There have been multiple Christian bibles/canons throughout history and none of them match each other nor has one ever been demonstrated to be authoritative. And btw, I'm speaking of different versions with differing content and not translations.
Secondly, they completely gloss over the antecedents to the modern versions the Christian bibles/canons that show a development from polytheism to monotheism as the literary and archeological evidence shows.
Thirdly, they fail to mention how archeology does not support such things as the exodus and conquest narratives. Not that I really expected this to approach those subjects. These men are what I refer to as apoli-scholar-gists; they may study biblical texts but they need to arrive at certain conclusions per the "statement of faith" they agree to for employment. They tend to not want to jeopardize their employment status by reaching what would be deemed as an unacceptable conclusion.
I discuss those other topics in videos on this channel. And we will come back to the canonization question soon.
@@SeanMcDowell I'm sorry, but I find it utterly bizarre that anyone has a video titled "The Bible: Tough Questions Answered", yet never actually addresses which "the bible" and why. If I had to guess, I would think that an apologist does not want Christians to critically analyze how many different canons exist and why. It seems that it is more difficult to promote a canon as being "divinely inspired" when there are at least seven different versions of the Christian bible/canon throughout history. Just an opinion.
However, could you please direct me to the video in which you address the "statement of faith" and the impact it may or may not have on your employment status. You did say that you discussed this in other videos.
They have found evidence of the exodus where have you been?
@@hoxiefam6731 Please, I implore you, what is this evidence you speak of and how exactly does it correlate to the story told in the Hebrew and Christian bibles/canons? I would love to know. And btw, I'm not saying that you will, but please do not make assertions of Ron Wyatt or chariot wheels in the Red Sea. His "archeology" is not legitimate and the chariot wheels have been debunked time and time again. With that said, I eagerly await you to meet your burden of proof of the evidence you speak of.
@@nonprogrediestregredi1711 you can Google search it for yourself. It's very easy to find. We don't need historical evidence for the parting of the red sea for the exodus to be true. But we do have enough evidence to claim the exodus was factual.
I'm excited to hear what ridiculous, mind-numbing fairytale Bible concepts will come up.
Clearly not 'fairytale' by any measure! You need it to transform your mind! It is a personal experience!
@@alexmccormick6137 biased? Yes, becuz i do my research. And... show u my research? Um... I've read everything I can get my hands on, as I love comparative religions... and, philosophy... and, I can name ONE book that sums it all up:
Dr. Richard Carrier's peer reviewed academic book, "On the Historicity of Jesus."
Or... just by reading the Bible cover to cover has the same effect. It's obvious fairytale and myth. I'm not an atheist, but Christianity is seriously lacking in its worldview.
"O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes regarding your faith; say nothing about Allah except the truth. The
Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah and the fulfilment of His Word through
Mary and a spirit created by a command from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, “Trinity.” Stop!-for your own good. Allah is only One God.
Glory be to Him! He is far above having a son! To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And Allah is sufficient as a Trustee of Affairs.” [Quran - Surah
An-Nisa; 4:171]
@@monkkeygawd LOL 😆 Dr.Michael S.Heiser PhD is also peer reviewed and his books and videos are based on Good scholarship : He would think an atheist like Carrier is just as biased as U R.
@@davidjanbaz7728 are u serious? he's a total crackpot! wow.
Is this a one hour joke? 3 men discussing a story book. When are they doing Lord of the ring?
Nothing wrong with the discussion or the men involved.
You lack the intellectual maturity to understand and appreciate the discussion.
@@Jin-dc7gl Yeah right, you can't, and no one else can, show any proof so don't try to be intellectual about it. You just show stupidity and how gullible you are. There is real things and man made up (for men), sorry if you don't like the truth.
@@mrsonor1090 A Book that has endured for 2000 plus years and has shaped Western civilization despite virulent attacks down the ages by people like you speaks for itself.
No further proof is required.
You have to come up with a better argument than calling names. This is the problem with all street level atheists.
@@Jin-dc7gl The age isn't a proof. And there are more books like your story book, so is there someone that's right? All can't be true, but all can be false. Learn how to think, friend. If you had been born somewhere else in the world, you would have been fighting in the comments on a different video for another book and religion with the same believe to have the truth. It's sad that you can't face a reality outside of your indoctrinated little world. Goodbye.
@@mrsonor1090 You too cannot accept the reality of another world outside of Atheism.
Guys, nobody confuses the "DaVinci Code" with a scholarly work. So railing against it is just a strawman argument. I lost interest here and can only hope you continued in a more reasonable fashion in the latter part of the talk.
Stop lying. People loooove saying that the Bible made up during the council of nicea
@@christatum3045 Stop asserting claims out of nowhere.
@@norbertjendruschj9121 Okay as soon as you agree to do the same mr "guys nobody confuses the davinci code with scholarly work" 🤷♂️
@@christatum3045 Okay: Only total morons would confuse the "Davinci Code" with a scholarly work. Are you a total moron?
Grab an NIV Bible and look at Matthew 23:14. What do you see? I find it very ironic that while Jesus is calling the Jewish scribes “hypocrites” and “blind guides,” it is ACTUALLY the CHRISTIAN SCRIBES who are adding and/or deleting the VERY WORDS of Jesus. Think about it. Strike them down Ananias style!
no, one can't trust bible texts since they have no evidence to support their claims. Claims can't be used as evidence for themselves. That the bible itself claims it is true does not mean it is true.
and the fact that not one of you self-proclaimed christians can do what Jesus' promised in this bible shows quite clearly you can't trust what it says. It's either that or you are *all* failing in some manner to get this god's attention.
Just wondering what it would take for you to accept the text as legitimate. If you do decide to accept it, YOU have to decide what to do with it. It doesn’t matter what other people think or do; it only matters what YOU think, since if the Bible is true, then YOU are the one who will stand before the God of the Bible at the end of your days.
@@kathycasey9521 IF I were to actually stand before Yahweh, the primary god of the Hebrew and Christian bibles/canons, I would certainly hope it would explain why it gave me no epistemic justification to be convinced of its existence. Also, which "the bible" are you referring to? There have been multiple Christian bibles/canons throughout history and none of them match each other nor has one ever been demonstrated to be authoritative. And btw, I'm speaking of different versions with differing content and not translations.
"no evidence"
that's absolutely not true everywhere, but where it's true, it's no different from virtually any other historical text prior to about 1000AD, most of which (save during the apex of Rome) are the only source for their claims. This is very standard, to have to judge / accept / question historical claims without much supporting evidence.
@@kathycasey9521 If you could explain how multiple conversations were copied down verbatim without invoking magic, that might be a start. Keep in mind that many of these conversations were private, some happening millennia ago.
Even if you could do what I've outlined, that's only the tip of the iceberg.
@@kathycasey9521 hmm, what would it take? Evidence for those baseless claims, Kathy. Just like you would request to accept the qu'ran as legitimate.
Happily, your impotent threats aren't impressive and your sadistic fantasies will never come true.
"Just wondering what it would take for you to accept the text as legitimate. If you do decide to accept it, YOU have to decide what to do with it. It doesn’t matter what other people think or do; it only matters what YOU think, since if the Bible is true, then YOU are the one who will stand before the God of the Bible at the end of your days."
10mins in no answers what so ever.. the story continues.
We answer questions throughout, but within the first minute I do ask a question.
Even if the Bible is true, there's no good reason to say Moses wrote the first five books or that the Exodus as written is a true story. That concept is absurd.
The Bible is Very Badly Written.
We Know from History and Across the World that People Cannot Even Agree what it Says or Means.
For about a Millennium People Interpreted it Literally and Concluded it Supported Slavery and after that Decided there was a Different Interpretation and it Didn’t Really.
Any God Worth Their Name Would Have the Power to Write a Book that Everyone Could Understand. Any God With Any Sense Would Realize that Human Beings Were of Finite Mental Capacity and if They Really Did Want to Write a Message for all Mankind Would Write a Book that Everyone Would Recognize as the Word of God and Understand.
It Makes No Sense at all for God to Write a Book Which in Practice has the Net Effect of Confusing Everybody About Something as Basic as Whether “SLAVERY” is OK.
If The Bible is Intended as Moral Guidance it is Demonstrably and Indisputably Badly Written and So Not Plausible as the Word of Any God Worthy the Title.
The Bible is What it Appears to Be. It’s an Eclectic Collection of Writings and Stories Mixing Historical Fact with Supernatural Fiction Written Over a Thousand Years Ago by People Who Weren’t Even the Most Enlightened People of Their Time and By Modern Standards were Spectacularly Ignorant. Sorry If You Can't Understand This it's Not My Problem... “If You Think You Know Everything, You’ll Never Learn Anything,”
You ppl just gave a heart problem holding on to darkness sin and unbelief.
@@k-dogg9086 Religious Control, As Well as Other Kinds of Control, Consists that the Controller Forces of Objects of Control to Carry out Norms of Behavior Under the Threat of Application of Reward or Punishment. The Priest Forces of Believers to Carry Out Religious Norms of Behavior Under Threat to Send in Paradise or Hell. Fear-Driven Religions Burn far too many Believers Every Year, Driving them Away Through Fear-Based Methods of Control, Manipulation, and Brainwashing. Fear is an Easy Tool for Power-Hungry Leaders to Wield. Keep the People Afraid and they won’t dare Budge out of Line. These Church Leaders Claim to be Christians “Little Christs,” Human Representatives of the Living God who Dwelt Among Us. Is it Any Wonder so many People are Leaving the Church?
Their Leaders Claim to be Little Christs but Lead like “SATAN”. Which Makes it vary Dangerous for HUMANITY...
As You Can See, the Negative Effects of Religion on Society are Enormous. To Blindly Follow a Religion or Any Other Ideology Simply Means to Restrict Your Perception, Suppress Your Thoughts and Emotions, and Live in Hypocrisy. In Other Words, to Live in Pain and Misery.
“If You Think You Know Everything, You’ll Never Learn Anything,”
Lol yikes! The Bible even if the original copies is STILL an ancient fairytale. Good lord!
This perfect book, the so called "inerrant word of God" has over 45,000 different denominations worldwide... Meaning there are over 45,000 different interpretations of the same book and every single one claims to be the "true" version... Seems legit... 😒