The introduction of regenerator had that benefit of letting you use an item like Life Orb reliably which lets you use some incredibly cool pokemon like Mienshao to the fullest of their offensive capabilities. Infernape would kill for having regen
To be fair, every pokemon would kill to have regenerator as an ability, but i agree it should be an ability for fragile but offensive mons, it should never have been added to defensive mons
@@littleDainolf I like regenerator as an ability, but on already defensive mons and as a fairly widespread ability it gets really frustrating and further incentivized switching out. I think it should’ve been left to less defensive mons and been a signature/rare ability
Infernape's double type is actually the best to make use of either toxic or will-o-wisp. Tox is better for tias and defensive stuff, but wisp is also useful overall, and also covers nidoqueen and can catch gyarados off guard.
@@enoyna1001 If you look at the pokemon that are usually immune to toxic or willowisp, you'll have : Steel types and poison types (for tox), clefable due to magic guard and fire types (for will o wisp) . Since infernape is fighting and fire, it can beat basically any steel type in the tier, empoleon dies to fighting moves, skarmory from fire moves, etc. The most (and often only) fire type thats being used in DPP besides infernape is heatran, which also doesnt want to face infernape. Then we have clefable that also loses 1v1 vs the ape. So basically, if your opponent wants to send a pokemon that resists status infernape cant inflict, they wont be able to resist infernape attacks. Conversely, all the pokemons that can take infernape STABs will have trouble getting toxic poisonned or burned. None of them appreciate it, especially under sandstorm. That being said, there are two caveats : 1) starmie can come in, take infernape stabs, switch out and cure its status. 2) You have to build a team that allows this set to shine.
Mixed ape with Life Orb and Overheat, Clost Combat, Grass Knot and U-turn is my go-to lead for BDSP Battle Tower. Super versatile, hits fast, hits strong and can pivot when needed.
Nah infernape is as good in practice it is literally the best fire starter when we exclude hidden abilities But the power creep is hella hard Infernape didn't got any special treatment since its introduction unlike the other fire starters
@@laxusstrauss5945He was still speaking solely about Gen 4 though, and in Gen 4, Infernape sounds incredible when you list what it can do, but it rarely lives up to the hype in practice. Sure there are matches where it dominates, but it's not a consistent in battle performer as there are many more battles where it flails around and dies
Wow this brought me back. I remember every early Gen 4 team carried infernape. I remember people would call him the best starter of all time for compitive play which is kinda laughable now considering they just slap whatever ability they want on starter pokemon these days to make them broken. Ape represented Gen 4 for a lot of years but yea I do remember he just dropped off the face of the earth, as years went by. Ape did better when there was less mons to deal with. That's why when new pokemon games came out it added a slew of threats that could beat Ape at what he was trying to do. And they just did things better than him.
I just listen to you talk about past gen metas, so idk how accurate this is. But Infernape really does sound like the inverse of Gen 3 Snorlax in a sense.
@@vanillaphysics7739 As an offensive wall breaker, Infernape is tough to EV and is coming up short against a lot of teams do to how bulky the meta is. Snorlax in Gen 3 is tough to EV, and it's role as a defensive pivot is becoming less effective do to spikes, sand, Wilo-wisps flying around, etc. They both clearly are still fantastic Pokemon, and a threat in their own right. But are finding difficulties in their roles do to the change in the surrounding metas. One on the defensive side, Gen 3 lax. And the other on the offensive, Gen 4 Ape. Hence why they are the inverse of one another.
It has an expansive movepool, the biggest out of all the Sinnoh starters, and it keeps getting new moves every generation, with Legends Arceus giving it Drain Punch and that new Raging Fury
I feel like the people calling ape unviable is a response to it being a+ on viability ranks. It absolutely isn't and I feel somewhat people who think it is c tier want their voice heard
First time seeing this type of video from you. This is a really cool way to describe how metagames shift and form even the better part of a decade or now well over a decade after the game was released.
I was going to ask about the viability ranking where Infernape was still in A+, and then I realized you wrote it 😆. Has Infernape gotten worse in your estimation since 2019, or are you saying Infernape used to be ranked even higher?
I spent a lot of time in BDSPs battle tower with a mixed Infernape as my main lead, its pretty fantastic tbh. Its got good dmg on both sides, solid type coverage and U-turn for unfavorable lead matchups. The one thing that kind of holds it back in my experience is the fact that it falls just short of that base 110 speed, so there are still a number of big threats that can outspeed and badly hurt it, like Gengar or the Lati's.
I watched this back when you posted it and tried messing around with Infernape in dpp a bit, but couldn't really make it work to my satisfaction, and shelved it for a while. Your recent video on the gen 5 weather ban put nostalgia back in my brain, so I picked it up again, and accidentally went from 1200 to 1600 in two days spamming it, because I was having such a good time, and the version I landed on felt very good and consistent. I know it's just ladder but I definitely think there's something there. Infernape is standard physical based mixed attacker spread with LO, with CC/Overheat/U-Turn/Slack Off. It just absolutely takes stall and a lot of balance teams apart. Paired with ttar, nothing switches into it safely, as all it's checks are significantly threatened by a u-turn. Psychics and Ghosts are forcibly trapped by ttar pursuit, and flying types are threatened by either ttar or other teamates. Every time Infernape comes in, it gets a kill or forces a signficant positional advantage, and with the switches it forces, it's very common to nab a slack off on something passive being forced out as they attempt to wear it down with residual damage, and the game is often just over from there. The team definitely has issues and counters, but I'm not a great team builder, and I'm sure someone else could make it better. Current thoughts is some bulky waters can be kinda hard to play around, particularly suicune and sub empoleon variants, and it would be nice to be able to move rocks elsewhere so that it could run eq. pokepast.es/ceaa78c950479557
(I'm only like halfway through the video but this thought occured to me) Is there a choice specs infernape set? I'm not really that aware of DPP but could it help w/ the special defensive walls like hippodown or maybe over heat choice specs could destroy jirachi? I'm assuming you could probably do the same thing w/ life orb or expert belt infernape but life orb hurts the survivability and expert belt might not be great to stop it from getting walled I figure... I don't know though! Very curious.
Nasty Plot on the switch to K.O kind of invalidates specs since it needs prediction where plot only needs the switch and is stronger and allows coverage. Reason Band is viable despite SD is Mach and U-Turn
Can you give us a video on some early mon that we’re OUT by technicality that secret suck and how and why they fell out of favor (and what little success they saw if any) eg Electivire
Watching these make me wanna get back into DPP. Should I reset my 150-192 record I’ve had since messing around in 2019? 😝 My brother used to run a Calm Mind Ape in Gen 6 that was pretty threatening.
I’m here today to reflect on the GOAT and it’s spiritual successor Iron Valiant in gen 9 basically being a mega infernape lol. Make mixed attackers great again!
There is no such thing as a perfect Pokémon, of course Infernape can’t beat everything. Just use an old school physical or mixape with CB or life orb and you’ll be able to beat your old counters again. You have 5 other Pokémon to deal with Nidoqueen, Latias, and everything else. Also since when has having the option to run so many different sets ever been a drawback?
I’m not too experienced in dpp but wouldn’t a life orb set with slack off be really good from what you’re saying? If the primary way to deal with life orb is to pivot around it and use protect to let it chip itself down, then you can use a lot of those forces switches to snag a slack off and give it some more longevity. Losing a coverage move isn’t ideal but it’s not as if the opponent knows what move you dropped so they still have to respect that you may still be running it
Latias really obliterates Infernape on every single axis to such a degree that it's comical. You can blame everything else but Latias being a perfect counter to it really puts a nail in its 4 moveslot syndrome coffin
Latias is a great switch in but absolutely not a perfect counter. 252 Atk Choice Band Infernape U-turn vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Latias: 166-196 (45.6 - 53.8%) Then on to scarf tyranitar 252 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Latias: 114-134 (31.3 - 36.8%) With rocks and the sand turn, the very very invested latias takes 95,9% minimum if you decide to pursuit but you might as well crunch as the thing never will be coming on ape again
its just due to the bad hidden ability which infernape is truly suffering from before gen 5 blaziken was considered as a downgraded infernape but now see where he is
I'm no DPP expert but given that the main issue is the balance between being threatening and survivability wouldn't a 3 atks + slack off life orb work? If it is an already known set to work or not work let me know.
17:15 definitely, theres mons with lower sp atk stats with great specs sets like starmie, kingdra and rotom. lots of issues (predictions need to be right on top of passive damage and extreme 4mss) but if you dont reveal it too early thing could be a terror.
I feel like Infernape is a Pokemon that seems great on paper, that feels overated for average players but that actually is great at high level. The facts that everyone love this pokemon but that very few people can really perform with doesn't help its case. And of course I'm not one of these very few people ... to my great disappointment
crazy take: we should remove the physical/special split. mons in gen 1-3 we’re balanced around this concept and it forces game freak to have to create items like assault vest or abilities like regenerator so that pokémon have a better chance of being a “mixed wall”
That would ruin a lot of movesets for pokemon wouldn't it? Pokemon that have physical coverage moves could have them switched to special due to that and thus their best moves erased.
![Boomer Attempts to Play Gen 9 NU (Badly) [Deoxys-Defense is NU]](/img/n.gif)
So happy to see this frequency in vids. Mood for Summer 2022 is sunbathing outside whilst listening to some nerd talk about digital dog fights.
The fuck is an “outside?”
Owtt
Okay
Okay
E I hope it goes
The introduction of regenerator had that benefit of letting you use an item like Life Orb reliably which lets you use some incredibly cool pokemon like Mienshao to the fullest of their offensive capabilities. Infernape would kill for having regen
No more regen please. Should be nerfed to 20%. Besides it doesn't makes sense thematically.
I think if this happened Regenerator would have to be nerfed first. It already makes me almost kill myself out of frustration.
To be fair, every pokemon would kill to have regenerator as an ability, but i agree it should be an ability for fragile but offensive mons, it should never have been added to defensive mons
@@littleDainolf I like regenerator as an ability, but on already defensive mons and as a fairly widespread ability it gets really frustrating and further incentivized switching out. I think it should’ve been left to less defensive mons and been a signature/rare ability
@@tweakr4377 regenerator was a necessary evil to counter the increasing offensive power and chip received from hazards.
Infernape's double type is actually the best to make use of either toxic or will-o-wisp. Tox is better for tias and defensive stuff, but wisp is also useful overall, and also covers nidoqueen and can catch gyarados off guard.
I wonder if we’ll start seeing Defensive Ape in the tier and how the Mets may shift because of that.
@@sandrahwu is defensive arcanine a thing in gen 4?
Where is the connection between its double type and using toxic or Will-O-Wisp?
@@enoyna1001 If you look at the pokemon that are usually immune to toxic or willowisp, you'll have : Steel types and poison types (for tox), clefable due to magic guard and fire types (for will o wisp) . Since infernape is fighting and fire, it can beat basically any steel type in the tier, empoleon dies to fighting moves, skarmory from fire moves, etc. The most (and often only) fire type thats being used in DPP besides infernape is heatran, which also doesnt want to face infernape. Then we have clefable that also loses 1v1 vs the ape. So basically, if your opponent wants to send a pokemon that resists status infernape cant inflict, they wont be able to resist infernape attacks. Conversely, all the pokemons that can take infernape STABs will have trouble getting toxic poisonned or burned. None of them appreciate it, especially under sandstorm.
That being said, there are two caveats :
1) starmie can come in, take infernape stabs, switch out and cure its status.
2) You have to build a team that allows this set to shine.
@@VAYu1u Makes sense, thank you for your detailed answer.
BKC as always, the great defender of +Atk or +SpA natures whenever possible
Nasty plot, flamethrower, close combat, grass knot was my favorite set as a kid. Won hundreds of games with that on battle revolution lmao
I liked the physically based infernape with Close combat, Stone edge, grass knot and overheat
Mixed ape with Life Orb and Overheat, Clost Combat, Grass Knot and U-turn is my go-to lead for BDSP Battle Tower.
Super versatile, hits fast, hits strong and can pivot when needed.
Infernale to me is one of those mons that seem a lot better on paper than they are in practice
Infer what
@@AdminAbuse i infer to you
while true, one has to say, that is at least better than the other OU pokemon that idea applies to (yes, I am looking at you, Electivire)
Nah infernape is as good in practice it is literally the best fire starter when we exclude hidden abilities
But the power creep is hella hard
Infernape didn't got any special treatment since its introduction unlike the other fire starters
@@laxusstrauss5945He was still speaking solely about Gen 4 though, and in Gen 4, Infernape sounds incredible when you list what it can do, but it rarely lives up to the hype in practice. Sure there are matches where it dominates, but it's not a consistent in battle performer as there are many more battles where it flails around and dies
People learnt that 108 unboosted frail offence isn't as good as 120+ offense
actually 104, wow its worse than i remember
Yes, 108 is his speed
Where Blaziken at then
@@Legogreens in Ubers during bw
120 isn't much nowadays
Wow this brought me back. I remember every early Gen 4 team carried infernape. I remember people would call him the best starter of all time for compitive play which is kinda laughable now considering they just slap whatever ability they want on starter pokemon these days to make them broken.
Ape represented Gen 4 for a lot of years but yea I do remember he just dropped off the face of the earth, as years went by. Ape did better when there was less mons to deal with. That's why when new pokemon games came out it added a slew of threats that could beat Ape at what he was trying to do. And they just did things better than him.
"Infernape is literally less viable than torterra". if you're using torterra, you are already winning at life.
Band Infernape was my favourite mon to use back in the day. Gen 4 really feels like a different meta to what I remember
Just watched your new video about how empoleon has overcome infernape. Made me watch this one
I just listen to you talk about past gen metas, so idk how accurate this is. But Infernape really does sound like the inverse of Gen 3 Snorlax in a sense.
In what way?
@@vanillaphysics7739 As an offensive wall breaker, Infernape is tough to EV and is coming up short against a lot of teams do to how bulky the meta is. Snorlax in Gen 3 is tough to EV, and it's role as a defensive pivot is becoming less effective do to spikes, sand, Wilo-wisps flying around, etc.
They both clearly are still fantastic Pokemon, and a threat in their own right. But are finding difficulties in their roles do to the change in the surrounding metas. One on the defensive side, Gen 3 lax. And the other on the offensive, Gen 4 Ape. Hence why they are the inverse of one another.
Omg. I've been trying to get like 5 variants of Infernape to work on ladder for the last 6 months. This video is spot on.
people be calling it Tias now? 😭
It has an expansive movepool, the biggest out of all the Sinnoh starters, and it keeps getting new moves every generation, with Legends Arceus giving it Drain Punch and that new Raging Fury
Because it has hands, versus flippers or being a quadruped
BDSP gave the chimchar line drain punch not legends
@@mattakia Nope it can't learn it in that game
@@MaahirMomtaz12 it was power up punch I was thinking of. My bad.
@@mattakia They knew that move since XY
I feel like the people calling ape unviable is a response to it being a+ on viability ranks. It absolutely isn't and I feel somewhat people who think it is c tier want their voice heard
@ReM I personally don't think him unviable, but I also don't understand at all how he is A+
It slightly deserves the rank
It is unpredictable and has so many sets
It is not C tier at all, lol. Low B at absolute worst.
@@sptflcrw8583 tbh true but it's c tier in the new viability rankings and I definitely get it
gosh seeing Infernape fills me with fear every time, it has sooo much good set it could run and destroy me off guard.
First time seeing this type of video from you. This is a really cool way to describe how metagames shift and form even the better part of a decade or now well over a decade after the game was released.
Really happy that we have replays in the background now it makes these much easier to watch
Frequent videos with game footage!
REJOICE
I like this video it really describes the problems of infernape and doesn't go on an unrelated tangent.
The best starter that Pokémon has ever had.
Swampert: am I a joke to you?
Nice concept for a video! I'll definitely watch more of this type of video
I was going to ask about the viability ranking where Infernape was still in A+, and then I realized you wrote it 😆. Has Infernape gotten worse in your estimation since 2019, or are you saying Infernape used to be ranked even higher?
I spent a lot of time in BDSPs battle tower with a mixed Infernape as my main lead, its pretty fantastic tbh.
Its got good dmg on both sides, solid type coverage and U-turn for unfavorable lead matchups.
The one thing that kind of holds it back in my experience is the fact that it falls just short of that base 110 speed, so there are still a number of big threats that can outspeed and badly hurt it, like Gengar or the Lati's.
Very cool and informative video. Would you ever make a video on Scizor the same as Ape?
that's a tremendous idea - thank you!
4:31 I can just imagine someone plopping A bag full of Burger King food on the floor next to an Infernape.
You've really not talked abput Infernape in the lead position (SR and/or Taunt). Any opinions on that?
the development of nidoqueen in gen4 ou is one of my favorite things ever
Nidoking as well to an extent. I like seeing that so many gens later, they still carve out niches due to their great movepools without being broken
@@RedRockin2000 two great mons, and gamefreak was kind enough to give them sheer force when they were in danger of becoming irrelevant
BKC Summer has officially begun 😎
make a video on the best mon of dpp ou: electivire
And dusknoir!
@@yeet8036 very strong mon
does anyone have dpp ou replays where nidoqueen puts in work?
I watched this back when you posted it and tried messing around with Infernape in dpp a bit, but couldn't really make it work to my satisfaction, and shelved it for a while. Your recent video on the gen 5 weather ban put nostalgia back in my brain, so I picked it up again, and accidentally went from 1200 to 1600 in two days spamming it, because I was having such a good time, and the version I landed on felt very good and consistent. I know it's just ladder but I definitely think there's something there. Infernape is standard physical based mixed attacker spread with LO, with CC/Overheat/U-Turn/Slack Off. It just absolutely takes stall and a lot of balance teams apart. Paired with ttar, nothing switches into it safely, as all it's checks are significantly threatened by a u-turn. Psychics and Ghosts are forcibly trapped by ttar pursuit, and flying types are threatened by either ttar or other teamates. Every time Infernape comes in, it gets a kill or forces a signficant positional advantage, and with the switches it forces, it's very common to nab a slack off on something passive being forced out as they attempt to wear it down with residual damage, and the game is often just over from there. The team definitely has issues and counters, but I'm not a great team builder, and I'm sure someone else could make it better. Current thoughts is some bulky waters can be kinda hard to play around, particularly suicune and sub empoleon variants, and it would be nice to be able to move rocks elsewhere so that it could run eq.
pokepast.es/ceaa78c950479557
Infernape destroys non stall teams
If stall teams are handled with stall breakers then well..... infernape destroys OU
(I'm only like halfway through the video but this thought occured to me) Is there a choice specs infernape set? I'm not really that aware of DPP but could it help w/ the special defensive walls like hippodown or maybe over heat choice specs could destroy jirachi? I'm assuming you could probably do the same thing w/ life orb or expert belt infernape but life orb hurts the survivability and expert belt might not be great to stop it from getting walled I figure... I don't know though! Very curious.
Nasty Plot on the switch to K.O kind of invalidates specs since it needs prediction where plot only needs the switch and is stronger and allows coverage. Reason Band is viable despite SD is Mach and U-Turn
Its really heartbreaking to see my All time favorite fall so bad
I have been enjoying the BKC upload schedule!
Can you give us a video on some early mon that we’re OUT by technicality that secret suck and how and why they fell out of favor (and what little success they saw if any) eg Electivire
I need to understand why people back in the earliest stages of DP thought Electivire and Dusknoir were good mons :p
@@butteredsalmonella yes I need to as well and I think BKC could give us a synopsis of that 😃
I'm baffled at how the Gens before Gen 4 have gotten retiered but Gen 4 is still "frozen" despite its tiers being outdated for years now.
Still grieving over INFERNAPE fall from grace 😔
Watching these make me wanna get back into DPP. Should I reset my 150-192 record I’ve had since messing around in 2019? 😝
My brother used to run a Calm Mind Ape in Gen 6 that was pretty threatening.
I wanna get back in but no longer have access to my forums account. :(
I’m here today to reflect on the GOAT and it’s spiritual successor Iron Valiant in gen 9 basically being a mega infernape lol. Make mixed attackers great again!
There is no such thing as a perfect Pokémon, of course Infernape can’t beat everything. Just use an old school physical or mixape with CB or life orb and you’ll be able to beat your old counters again. You have 5 other Pokémon to deal with Nidoqueen, Latias, and everything else.
Also since when has having the option to run so many different sets ever been a drawback?
I have a feeling Greninja is on a similar trajectory.
I’m not too experienced in dpp but wouldn’t a life orb set with slack off be really good from what you’re saying? If the primary way to deal with life orb is to pivot around it and use protect to let it chip itself down, then you can use a lot of those forces switches to snag a slack off and give it some more longevity. Losing a coverage move isn’t ideal but it’s not as if the opponent knows what move you dropped so they still have to respect that you may still be running it
Yep, it's a very dangerous set. The issue it runs into is mainly finding good opportunities to heal, due to its low bulk.
Latias really obliterates Infernape on every single axis to such a degree that it's comical. You can blame everything else but Latias being a perfect counter to it really puts a nail in its 4 moveslot syndrome coffin
Latias is a great switch in but absolutely not a perfect counter.
252 Atk Choice Band Infernape U-turn vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Latias: 166-196 (45.6 - 53.8%)
Then on to scarf tyranitar
252 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Latias: 114-134 (31.3 - 36.8%)
With rocks and the sand turn, the very very invested latias takes 95,9% minimum if you decide to pursuit but you might as well crunch as the thing never will be coming on ape again
I'm pretty sure bkc mentioned in the beginning of the video that infernape can just click u turn. It's definitely not a perfect counter by any means
Small brain take. Monke has U-Turn
“ORAS is a modern as I get” bro who hurt you 😂
Passive damage, that's what happened
BKC just dropped, time to put it on an go to sleep.
Back to back uploads??? OkY BKC! Exciting
Mega infernape when
"lol chip" moment
It learns encore too.
Infernape is a high tier late game sweeper
on paper Specs Ape absolutely wallops stuff like SpDef Hippo/Rachi with Spikes down but idk how good it'd be in practice other than as a lure or sum
Thanks for the upload 😄
would muscle band infernape be any good to boost power without locking into a move or reducing your overall longevity?
with the quickness!
Emboar supremacy
i like to run shell bell infernape.
don't care to listen, still liked. maybe ill go to sleep to this idk
Hell yeah , more vids
Favorite mon hands down sucks he won't be in scarlet and violet.
Who said ape won't be in scarlet and violet?
infernape is still in gen5 ou, I think, this is so cursed
How about Expert Belt?
Buffe infernape 2022
its just due to the bad hidden ability which infernape is truly suffering from
before gen 5 blaziken was considered as a downgraded infernape but now see where he is
@Nauts at least blaziken is viable in OU tho and would be OU rn if the tiers weren’t locked
Hmm...
Gen 4 mechanics outran it?
I thought I invented WoW nape haha
Such a nasty set, people switch in their gyara thinking they can set up and just get ruined
You often say that something is underrated. What is the most overrated Pokémon in DPP OU according to you?
I'm no DPP expert but given that the main issue is the balance between being threatening and survivability wouldn't a 3 atks + slack off life orb work? If it is an already known set to work or not work let me know.
I’ve used it before it definitely does work but there’s an opportunity cost to it sadly
Is Specs Ape worth anything?
17:15 definitely, theres mons with lower sp atk stats with great specs sets like starmie, kingdra and rotom. lots of issues (predictions need to be right on top of passive damage and extreme 4mss) but if you dont reveal it too early thing could be a terror.
I feel like Infernape is a Pokemon that seems great on paper, that feels overated for average players but that actually is great at high level.
The facts that everyone love this pokemon but that very few people can really perform with doesn't help its case.
And of course I'm not one of these very few people ... to my great disappointment
Sleep to bkc time helllllll yeah
Answer: Latias
God I hate Breloom, it's so cheap and one note in Gen 4 OU. Shit makes me want to run Primeape
I like infernape
Imagine if Infernape had motor drive… crazy
Taunt wisp slack off cc sounds fun as shit
crazy take: we should remove the physical/special split. mons in gen 1-3 we’re balanced around this concept and it forces game freak to have to create items like assault vest or abilities like regenerator so that pokémon have a better chance of being a “mixed wall”
That would ruin a lot of movesets for pokemon wouldn't it? Pokemon that have physical coverage moves could have them switched to special due to that and thus their best moves erased.
scarf ape max spe max att flareblitz/cc/uturn/mach punch is the ultimate revenge killer on showdown imo