According to all known laws of DPP Ubers, there is no way that Deoxys Speed should be able to succeed. The metagame is far too aware of its tricks and prepares against them. Deoxys Speed, of course, wins games anyways. Because haha Deoxys Speed go brrrrr.
as i read this comment, its 11:45pm with a tired eye after a tiring day of college things with showdown on another tab and a pillow next to me. i think he got it spot on
@@SPZ-gv2on "or" does not exclude the possibility of both being the case. It simply means that at least one of the options has to be the case. It *does* however carry the rejectable implicature "not all of the options are true" because one would assume that in the case, where all options are true, one would use the stronger "and" instead. (This is known as "scalar implicature" in the literature). But this is simply what many of us would assume, but it is not what is actually been said. Language sometimes ... lol
I used to run near max speed deo-s enough to outrun +1 speed max +speed base 95s with thunder and ice beam dual hazard to bop scarf Kyogre and other plus speed base 90s and 95s that can get out of hand like Rayquaza and slow rock polish groudons. Its niche and hyper specific but I didn't want to worry in the end game scenerio.
I used Scarf Deo-S for fun because it sounds so funny and the other player was so confused why his Scarf Darkrai didnt outsped. That was so funny Edit: the stealthrock actually mattered cz of Ho-Oh and stuff xd
@@sephikong8323 Making unusual choices to throw off your opponent is kind of annoying strategy yet completely legit at the same time 😂 Bobby Fischer literally did it in his most famous chess matches
@@tylerd1297Yep, with you too. I had a Swellow for singles RU, but I didn't run the typical guts-flame orb-facade. I ran Scrappy Boomburst Brave bird Roost, and get this, reversal!? Reversal was for coverage in case the opponent switched into a resist. I ran a focus sash, not only so Swellow could live, but could lay waste with reversal. It worked pretty well. (With some prediction, you can certainly turn that rock weakness into an advantage!) Weird stat spread too. I think it was 263/240/140/240/140/353 spread? I guess the element of surprise can really turn a game.
@@lceC0ldHeart haha nice! The old mixed spread. See i play Gen 1-2 so I'm not seasoned with EV's but that's the type of thing that really can't be predicted. That's at least more respectable than say, relying on Hypnosis/Spore or matchup based teams. Your opponent can't blame you for their own assumption that you were running a specific set. Smogon be like that though, I don't run Snorlax on some of my Gen 1 teams and had someone rage on me over an unconventional chansey set lol.
I only do doubles in vgc, but learning about the best competitive strats in other formats is so helpful for thinking of unique ideas & learning mechanics that don’t pop up in my format as frequently.
@@TheBestFormOfHumor stealth rock, basically. In combination with the spikes it already got And while not "the best" pokemon in gen 4 per se, it IS certainly the most defining lead in the tier with pretty much every other lead pokemon being in part defined by its ability to limit deo-s in some way. And yet, even with the entire tier being prepared for it, it STILL succeds.
I don't play showdown much but hearing you talk excitedly about a gen 4 format which is available in RoA right now, that's an opportunity I won't pass up.
Your notes about Froslass here reflect why I think its underrated in the current game. Froslass is one of the few spikers, that makes it very difficult to remove its own hazards. You can't spin on it, and nowadays, it taunts most defogger fearlessly. And now that it has Wisp, it not only cripples opposing setters, but most of its known bullies. The ttar, the Exca, hell. Even the Pex. Froslass is a great Pokemon. You're not gonna leave many games where Froslass hasn't done its job.
While youre right about froslass being a good suicide setter, and destiny bond is a scary move to play around, usually, youd rather have a mon that can just reset hazards throughout the game. With mons like corvi being able to sit on a lot after lass faints and defog like hazards are nothing, its pretty hard to keep hazards up all game like it was in gen 4. Would only work on HO, and atm, mew can set more hazards due to its bulk and movepool.
I can only name one mon in each category. One spinner who would actually force Froslass out to spin, one mon who defogs on Lass itself, and one mon who sets hazards on it. The others lose something to Froslass, even Mew, since Lass outspeeds. It's also not about who's better than Froslass, it's what Froslass offers in the slot you use to add it to your team. I should also mention that I haven't touched Destiny Bond in years. I feel like I get more using it to mess with Waters, rather than playing the lead match-up. Especially when you curse the only coverage option they have for you, and pain split your health back. When you think of its slot in that manner, Lass is very annoying.
@@disasterarchfiend9638 The problem is that it doesn't stick around to do it's job over the course of the game while the anti hazard ones do and they are not that easy to get rid of quickly meaning that your hazards will generally not last that long If you want a dedicated spikes offense lead, it is okay I guess but you'd rather have something that can pose a threat itself and not just pile on the spikes (and that's also why in the lower tiers I prefer Band Lass instead of the Focus Sash set, because it is an immediate threat that's hard to switch into but that can also capitalize on the free switches it forces to freely spike all over the place)
I'm gonna say this right here. I do not use Sash at all. 1, this isn't DPP. 2, your targets are the mons that rely on their utility to play the game. Which there are plenty of. Longevity isn't your goal. It's about forcing your opponent to play your game in your way. If you're playing this mon in the first place, you're already aware of what it doesn't do. You're using it for what IT does.
Cant tell if this is a joke or not, but depends on whether or not you want the flying typing removed, ex: roosting before ttars rock slide turns it to just a 2x super effective move, on the flip side, ho oh will also be vulnerable to earthquake.
@@ciarzyx Not sure, its like deciding whether or not you want have an even or odd number of hp on your mon, just pick the one that you think will be more useful(Odd number rounds down dmg but also recovery.)
Yo BKC, I'm a total noob so idk if this is just a dumb idea, but do you think lead Giratina-O could benefit from Magic Coat? It would help vs Darkrai (Dark Void) and let you snag some hazards before nuking Deoxys.
@@finally2 wait so what does magic coat even do? show them a fancy little window thing? play some sounds? emote at the opposing player? I assume it just bounces like status, but wow that is useless.
It has -Toxic Spikes -Insomnia so its immune to Darkvoid -and Priority in suckerpunch and shadow sneak for Sash users One of the best answers to Datkrai-lead.
@@Cobalt957 not a direct answer because it actually loses to darkrai 1v1 (as it resists both priority moves), but it can reliably setup tspikes against darkrai lead which is pretty cool. Plus, it can also threaten deoxys-leads with bug bite + priority. It IS very niche though. And it is a shame, that ariados doesn't get x-scissor in gen 4 :/
According to all known laws of DPP Ubers, there is no way that Deoxys Speed should be able to succeed. The metagame is far too aware of its tricks and prepares against them. Deoxys Speed, of course, wins games anyways. Because haha Deoxys Speed go brrrrr.
**"The Power of Passive Damage" flashes back at 10x speed in the background**
Literally two because I've won games where I tricked scarf onto their lead and then they just gave up xd.
Just wanted to say after the video came out, i am shattered that @BKC didn't fit this line into the script.
"why speed ... might be everything; the deoxys theorem"
By 2030 every mon will find a random legitimate niche in dpp ubers
I mean a certain beaver Pokémon is immune to ghost moves so that’ll help with its lead matchup to Frosglass
Yo Ubers Magikarp niche? Let’s go!!
“Im here to inform or lull you to sleep”
He’s on on to us
as i read this comment, its 11:45pm with a tired eye after a tiring day of college things with showdown on another tab and a pillow next to me. i think he got it spot on
I've slept to many videos BKC has made
Tho I watch a lot of BKC
Bold to assume that it won't do both
@@SPZ-gv2on "or" does not exclude the possibility of both being the case. It simply means that at least one of the options has to be the case.
It *does* however carry the rejectable implicature "not all of the options are true" because one would assume that in the case, where all options are true, one would use the stronger "and" instead. (This is known as "scalar implicature" in the literature). But this is simply what many of us would assume, but it is not what is actually been said.
Language sometimes ... lol
Free ariados
I used to run near max speed deo-s enough to outrun +1 speed max +speed base 95s with thunder and ice beam dual hazard to bop scarf Kyogre and other plus speed base 90s and 95s that can get out of hand like Rayquaza and slow rock polish groudons. Its niche and hyper specific but I didn't want to worry in the end game scenerio.
I think it’s fair to say bkc likes DPP Ubers just a wee bit as of late
Dude told us 10 months ago
@@whydoiexist2180 dude also uploaded solely this tier for the past 4 uploads
not complaining, my favorite generation but a format I'm unfamiliar with 👌
@@CubeBizz me neither man I enjoy learning something new
i dont play competitive pokemon but i love these videos
This is one of the reasons I love DPP Ubers
When you get yelled at for why are you running trick scarf deoxys speed and then just point to this video.
I used Scarf Deo-S for fun because it sounds so funny and the other player was so confused why his Scarf Darkrai didnt outsped. That was so funny
Edit: the stealthrock actually mattered cz of Ho-Oh and stuff xd
I don't know how to feel about this piece of information
@@sephikong8323 Making unusual choices to throw off your opponent is kind of annoying strategy yet completely legit at the same time 😂 Bobby Fischer literally did it in his most famous chess matches
@@tylerd1297Yep, with you too.
I had a Swellow for singles RU, but I didn't run the typical guts-flame orb-facade.
I ran Scrappy Boomburst Brave bird Roost, and get this, reversal!?
Reversal was for coverage in case the opponent switched into a resist.
I ran a focus sash, not only so Swellow could live, but could lay waste with reversal.
It worked pretty well.
(With some prediction, you can certainly turn that rock weakness into an advantage!)
Weird stat spread too. I think it was 263/240/140/240/140/353 spread?
I guess the element of surprise can really turn a game.
@@lceC0ldHeart haha nice! The old mixed spread. See i play Gen 1-2 so I'm not seasoned with EV's but that's the type of thing that really can't be predicted. That's at least more respectable than say, relying on Hypnosis/Spore or matchup based teams. Your opponent can't blame you for their own assumption that you were running a specific set.
Smogon be like that though, I don't run Snorlax on some of my Gen 1 teams and had someone rage on me over an unconventional chansey set lol.
@@tylerd1297 lol yeah people can suck sometimes
Usually the best sets are the ones you don't see coming.
no ariados lead smh
I only do doubles in vgc, but learning about the best competitive strats in other formats is so helpful for thinking of unique ideas & learning mechanics that don’t pop up in my format as frequently.
Ye it's like clefable who got used much more in old Gens after it got famous since gen6. Sometimes a little bit of inspiration is the key :)
Thank god, I've been milking the Ubers viability video for a week now
holy shit we all really do the same thing with his videos hey
bkc made me realise i really like audiobooks so thanks man
Dpp is such a fun metagame, i spent so much time with it
ariados punching the air rn :(
Deoxys speed went from worst to best in one gen, what a comeback
How
@@TheBestFormOfHumor Deo speed was the worst uber in gen3
@@gamincaimin9954 I don't know anything about gen 3 so I can't tell if that's true but it definitely isn't the best in gen 4
@@TheBestFormOfHumor stealth rock, basically. In combination with the spikes it already got
And while not "the best" pokemon in gen 4 per se, it IS certainly the most defining lead in the tier with pretty much every other lead pokemon being in part defined by its ability to limit deo-s in some way. And yet, even with the entire tier being prepared for it, it STILL succeds.
@@IschmarVI Yeah I know what it does in the tier. It's just that OP could've used better wording
Ahh, DPP Ubers.
Is it Shedinja time already?
(Editor's Note: Shedinja Time is still two generations away.)
imma be sleepin gooooood tonight
*Goes to toilet during livestream*
*Does not explain*
*Leaves*
I don't play showdown much but hearing you talk excitedly about a gen 4 format which is available in RoA right now, that's an opportunity I won't pass up.
I miss dedicated lead metagames. Wished gen 5 didnt introduce teampreview even though Ilusion would be stupid.
I still think team preview was more of a good thing personally
It was definitely for the best yea.
I like team preview. Enables more calculated decision making rather than a shot in the dark
@@chopinfanclub6672 the later gens are like more leniency in the team builder for like more consistency in battle sorta
Your notes about Froslass here reflect why I think its underrated in the current game. Froslass is one of the few spikers, that makes it very difficult to remove its own hazards. You can't spin on it, and nowadays, it taunts most defogger fearlessly. And now that it has Wisp, it not only cripples opposing setters, but most of its known bullies. The ttar, the Exca, hell. Even the Pex. Froslass is a great Pokemon. You're not gonna leave many games where Froslass hasn't done its job.
While youre right about froslass being a good suicide setter, and destiny bond is a scary move to play around, usually, youd rather have a mon that can just reset hazards throughout the game. With mons like corvi being able to sit on a lot after lass faints and defog like hazards are nothing, its pretty hard to keep hazards up all game like it was in gen 4. Would only work on HO, and atm, mew can set more hazards due to its bulk and movepool.
I can only name one mon in each category. One spinner who would actually force Froslass out to spin, one mon who defogs on Lass itself, and one mon who sets hazards on it. The others lose something to Froslass, even Mew, since Lass outspeeds.
It's also not about who's better than Froslass, it's what Froslass offers in the slot you use to add it to your team. I should also mention that I haven't touched Destiny Bond in years. I feel like I get more using it to mess with Waters, rather than playing the lead match-up. Especially when you curse the only coverage option they have for you, and pain split your health back.
When you think of its slot in that manner, Lass is very annoying.
@@disasterarchfiend9638 The problem is that it doesn't stick around to do it's job over the course of the game while the anti hazard ones do and they are not that easy to get rid of quickly meaning that your hazards will generally not last that long
If you want a dedicated spikes offense lead, it is okay I guess but you'd rather have something that can pose a threat itself and not just pile on the spikes (and that's also why in the lower tiers I prefer Band Lass instead of the Focus Sash set, because it is an immediate threat that's hard to switch into but that can also capitalize on the free switches it forces to freely spike all over the place)
I'm gonna say this right here. I do not use Sash at all. 1, this isn't DPP. 2, your targets are the mons that rely on their utility to play the game. Which there are plenty of. Longevity isn't your goal. It's about forcing your opponent to play your game in your way. If you're playing this mon in the first place, you're already aware of what it doesn't do. You're using it for what IT does.
@@loverkkaqours Reliably get spikes up against non-Corviknight teams, from what I gathered.
Are you still planning to do the beat up video
The DPP ubers fest rn let's fucking go
Exactly the type of video I wanted to see
The way my brain is a fiend for this knowledge 🙈
bkc best fuckin god damn youtuber on the planet baby
Roost v Recover on Ho-Oh?
Cant tell if this is a joke or not, but depends on whether or not you want the flying typing removed, ex: roosting before ttars rock slide turns it to just a 2x super effective move, on the flip side, ho oh will also be vulnerable to earthquake.
@@gamincaimin9954 i mean which is more used? i can imagine there are arguments for which is better
@@ciarzyx Not sure, its like deciding whether or not you want have an even or odd number of hp on your mon, just pick the one that you think will be more useful(Odd number rounds down dmg but also recovery.)
Shoutout to Jimothy Cool and his "Bad Pokemon That Counter Legendaries" video.
But I'm disappointed you shut down the Ariados Discussion 😢😂
10 sec in im already exposed for sleeping on it smh
Yo BKC, I'm a total noob so idk if this is just a dumb idea, but do you think lead Giratina-O could benefit from Magic Coat? It would help vs Darkrai (Dark Void) and let you snag some hazards before nuking Deoxys.
magic coat dosent bounce hazards in gen 4 ::::::(((((
@@finally2 seriously? that suuuuucks
@@ellachino4799 agreed, it would make punishing stacking spikes much easier
3:30
@@finally2 wait so what does magic coat even do? show them a fancy little window thing? play some sounds? emote at the opposing player? I assume it just bounces like status, but wow that is useless.
I appreciate BKC!
hehehe dee pee pee
Is there a ladder you can play dpp ubers on?
no, sadly, you have to ask for games in the ruins of alph and ubers rooms
Ty BKC
will you be covering CI5 at all
Best lullaby for me
LETS GO another bkc
Epic
Drop a video on OU bruh I'm dying out here
ARIDAOS GANG GUYSSSS!!!!!
I like how deo-s can literally run ZERO speed investment with a neutral nature and STILL outspeed max speed mewtwo. Its so dumb, really :D
its "neesh" brother
this may be a stupid question, but doesnt magic coat counter pretty much anything deo-s does?
not in gen 4
magic coat was weaker in dpp then in bw and onwards
Ariados???
It has
-Toxic Spikes
-Insomnia so its immune to Darkvoid
-and Priority in suckerpunch and shadow sneak for Sash users
One of the best answers to Datkrai-lead.
he said its too nieche to talk about it
@@Cobalt957 not a direct answer because it actually loses to darkrai 1v1 (as it resists both priority moves), but it can reliably setup tspikes against darkrai lead which is pretty cool. Plus, it can also threaten deoxys-leads with bug bite + priority.
It IS very niche though. And it is a shame, that ariados doesn't get x-scissor in gen 4 :/