Ret-cons, Female Space Marines, and the Ork Codex
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
- Ret-Cons, Orks, Custodes, and midichlorians? Check out this spicy episode of 40k Fanatics. The boys talk about this week's hottest topics. Can girls really wear power armor?
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#warhammer40k #40klore #warhammer #podcast #spacemarines #culturewar #adeptuscustodes #femalespacemarines #gamesworkshop #tabletopgaming #feminism #politics - Hry
+1 sub. A lot of perspective in this show.
First time hearing these guys, last time hearing these guys.
Facts 😂
"I know very little about lore of 40k." Explains everything
Exactly. If you don't know it, you're opinion does not matter. We don't need the thoughts of someone who doesn't know anything about the hobby.
Many of the folks angry about this are seeing the first steps taken that have tanked other fandoms. Inclusion is awesome until it goes against artistic freedom. No one believes female custodes were done in good faith.
EXACTLY!!!
👏👏👏👍
It is not the fact that there are female Custodes asserted into the lore, no if that was the case you would have had a similar situation when they came out with the Primaris Marines. Its how they shoe horned it into the lore that are pissing long time fans out. They could've extended the lore to create new female custodes or sisters of silence, but they just went and ret-coned the core backbone.
There are more bodies in the Custodes combat patrol than in the SM box
Well I'm not ok with being lied to, gaslit and disrespected. "There have always been women among custodes" that is their take and is demonstrably false. They even have the gall to go and change the wikipedia. Changes are made not for the betterment of the hobby, but to pander and fit the political agenda of a few screaming hateful banshees who have never even cared about Warhammer and I have to be ok with it or be called an incel neckbeard? Nope, sorry. Moreover, even if you want to go with the "inclusivity" BS excuse, there is no reason to change anything, Warhammer is already just about the most inclusive IP out there, there are factions and characters of all cultures, ethnicities, genders and whatever as it is and that is true for both 40k and Fantasy
I think things get shaky when corporations that are known for greed are virtue signaling. Like, how come no one is questioning why they are pushing their virtues into our entertainment. It's weird
Selling to more people is pretty greedy
They won't get new people into this, These investors want to destroy fandoms, just like Star Wars, Marvel, LOTR, D&D, Star Trek.. You should only Love the state and take your place as a Cog in the machine.
@@DefaultProphet what person is on the fence but wouldn't buy in just because the lore states there are no female marines/custodians?
People have been making their own female marines for years anyway if they are so inclined.
This brings no new people in and takes a swipe at anyone who has already bought in and is invested in the lore.
It's a little "humiliation" victory for the activists and politically motivated investors.
They dont care about the lore, they just want to rub the noses of their percieved enemies in it again and move on after subverting the group
@@mill_8108 Why do you see adding women as a swipe at you personally?
I agree but thinking finally adding women to just ONE element of 40K to a half century old game about an entire universe of buff white dudes who never have sex and fight alongside fanatical bdsm nuns with factions named after their genitalia is virtue signaling is embarrassing.
Target audience of TT are the guys with books, but we are no minority here. Most grew up with 40k and now wonder what we will show to our kids. Tik tok GW, I have my old books and 3d printer. 13TH BLACK CRUSADE STILL RAGES ON!
I introduced my kids to 40K with old minis and codices I still have from the end of 2e into the start of 3e. James Workshop should realize that old dogs have kept supporting them over the years out of a love for the IP, not a love of the company, and we have everything we need to keep playing without them. Even easier now with 3D printers.
If Trajan Valoris had received a vision from the Emperor telling him to find a baby girl and have her inducted into the Custodies and train her I'd be fine with it, the way it was done saying they've always been there is just insulting to the fans. Also thank you, I've never been called a bot before!
Would've been a great way to give AC more named characters.
Sorry guys, but the lore must be consistent in order to matter. Otherwise you get what we currently have. Which is anger about the retcon and the lies that followed. So the female Custodes thing matters to 40K fans in ALL places. Not some gaming or painting table only. That is rich to say that the only places that are serious is where you state as the only ones.
Tolkien called it "secondary belief." In essence, the fan must be able to completely immerse themselves in the world and to become lost in it. If we are having to "suspend disbelief," then the world has failed to truly capture our imaginations. We should be able to live in it as we consume it because it all fits together.
Things like this late-stage unexplained retroactive continuity breaks that secondary belief to pieces because those who have been immersed in the world know that we are being fed a lie and told to just accept it. They did not develop the lore with a new story that kept things consistent. They just took a hatchet to the world and told us to ignore the scar.
"these people aren't real people" -channel with less than 250 subscribers.
Yeah they prob being paid by Sweet baby Inc. To make more Tubers.that would come to heel.
Old World is out now so I really don't have much investment for 40k anymore.
Just here for the comments. Will be checking "don't recommend channel" on my way out lol
Normies have ruined every IP and Fandom.
Their not even normies
It’s not the normies, it’s black rock.
Pay closer attention to what’s going on
@@mrwisefluffer There we go, the conspiracy theorists grifters are here. Time to wrap it up.
@@mrwisefluffer so people bossing GW around from Blackrock are not Normies? Lmao.
@@JawaBob it’s not a conspiracy theory lol, it’s a fact, they give you stock price indexes based on the boxes you tick for their diversity agenda.
It’s very provable and not hidden in the slightest
So do custodes have breed with each other? There will be a lot of plot holes that need to be filled. Also, what rolls will female custodes play?
I think you have the bots vs people numbers switched.
we do know that they don't have any sex drive and that they take children from nobles of terra, so they probably do not breed.
Well given that the men are 10 foot tall anatomical nightmares in a rule-of-cool/nonsense universe that seemingly exists some how almost exclusively without the existence of women, where robots and aliens go to war... I'm pretty sure the 'rOlLs WiLl FeMaLe cUsToDeS pLaY'... is soldier badass just like everyone and thing else. Holy shit men are unbelievable.
There have *NEVER* been "female Space Marines," and the fact that you cite a Reddit myth as fact speaks volumes.
Those two minis were from the 1988 Adventurers line, not the Space Marines line, and they were early Sisters of Battle. Their slot tabs were stamped "Sister," and they were directly based on the Sororitas artwork from the 1987 Rogue Trader rule book (pp. 268-269). You can see their pauldron iconography is the same as said artwork.
It is hilarious that you rant about the "hivemind of the internet" while you spread misinformation from the hivemind of Reddit. If not for "unserious places on the internet," you would likely not have even heard of such myths, let alone blindly believe them as fact.
This further speaks to the problem with those who claim "40K is nothing but retcons." Most of them were not even around for said "retcons," and they actually fail to understand the difference between developing lore and retroactively replacing it. You see this with false claims about "female Space Marines," the Necrons, and so on.
40K was in its infancy with Rogue Trader, Space Hulk, and Space Crusade, and that continued into 2e as things were refined. Still, things like gene-seed appeared early on (1988 in this case) so that the core of the building blocks were present. You can find real retroactive continuity in those days as Priestley & Co. refined the ideas, but 40K was 40K was 40K. As things progressed through 2e into 3e, most things ceased to be retcons and were simply development of the lore based on in-universe new information.
You can go back to the 1987 rule book, and, while there are differences here and there, the core of the universe is entirely recognizable.
And part of that is that the Custodes were *always* male-a truth that remained from 1987 to 2024. That this change was done with a lazy retcon with no explanation rightly makes many fans angry, and it has nothing to do with any sort of -ism or -phobia. This was lazily done retroactive continuity, not lore development, and it subverts the value of investing time into it all. Why read novels or even the narrative elements of codices if it all can be tossed out on a whim? Just reduce 40K to overpriced generic plastic crap and be done with it.
You have no problem with being gaslighted and lied too. It’s straight out of 1984. “We have always been at war with Eastasia.”
The community sees what has happened to Star Trek, Star Wars, Dr. Who, Marvel. We don’t want it in our 40k.
I’ve asked CZcams not to show me your content. I won’t support this beyond voicing my displeasure once.
In short: buy product, hate the lore, and people TOTALLY aren't upset about this.
First time watching and will be my last time. You all are all what we call "whales". People that'll just mindlessly consume large amount of products with no thought to it.
Oh, well. Your loss not mine.
Soooo you think anyone who disagrees with you as a bot? Got it.
Yes! The TikTok and Twitter crowd, the comment sections of people who have no idea about the game that's where all the bullshit is coming from.
Not a single person complaining about Custodes has been able to answer the dead simple question of "What army and detachment are you playing and how did you adapt to the point changes?" Because they don't play.
The Custodes Battlebox was gone in a under a day which tells you how "unpopular" they are.
Actual Custodes players are complaining but it's about the index detachment nerfy the fact that they only got 4, the fact that the dread and tank are still only forge world, the fact that the new unit is just another Captain and the moaning about becoming a hoard army because their points are down.
I've heard wild stories. Obviously Custodes are Space Marines is a common one, but one guy said he had 5000 points of Marines, 2000 points of guard and some xenos and he cancelled the pre order for the "dex". Had to explain that ot was the right call given that Codex Custodes didn't have any rules for his armies.
You guys are doing great work, ignore the tourists, like you said, the people you meat in the shop, buying plastic, buying paint, those are the only voices that matter.
FYI socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCOviJ8lr6PHli_PjCH0a-4g
Goobertown hobbies seems to be up overall which is great to see
Fsm never existed
BS. Ask your mother if adding female custodes made her want to play 40k. Answer is always no. Go away ruin some other thing.
MAKE WARHAMMER 40K RIGHT WING!
The salt in the comments is so great, well done!
Gay!
It's just not my thing man. I don't want Woke in my game. Your not getting my cash or vote by forcing me to like an idea that I'm not into. Just give me my Krieg and Grey Knights with no fluff n' puff.
You're playing other armies. You weren't buying the codex and there's no model to buy in the first place so how are you getting the idea that they're trying to get money from you by doing this?
@@NeoHellPoet He's talking about buying the new codex.
So only nerds painting miniatures and playing the tabletop in GW stores matter? How silly lol. I've bought and read dozens of the books, bought games and miniatures but will not play the boring tabletop because I don't have the time. So by your calculation me not liking retcons is invalid? You're being an actual edgy contrarion and painting dissenters as the edgy contrarions. I do agree that mass appeal to any hobby will be a net negative to the older fans but this was such a pointless and badly thought out stance.
I Need MEN. I NEED MEN FILLED WITH THE EMPORERS SEEEEEED. HOW DARE THEY FILL WOMEN WITH HIS HOLY SEED
40k is a franchise full of ret cons. The whole 30k primach thing is in fact a ret con. I chose to not care.
Some Retcons are worse than others really, I don't scale them all the same.
Seriously, its all retcons. But when women are involved suddenly they come out of the woodwork. It's sad man.
@@JawaBob And then they go like nah it's not about the women actaully. It's about continuitie. I often wonder how that works out in ones mind.
@@JawaBob what? that's just not true, you clearly weren't around when Primaris Marines were introduced, that loads of people up in arms. only reason it wasn't as big as the custodes is the simple fact the community wasn't as big back then.
And most of the lore defining retcons happened in 2nd or 3rd edition, when the game was still being created. that nature of chaos, nature of the imperium, how factions operate. minor retcons like adding vehicles and things happen without issue because they hardly impact the lore in the same way. Most of the lore has been relatively stable for 30 years basically, that's why people are annoyed at changes the biggest changes post 3rd edition where the Primaris, necrons and Votann. People don't mind these (Necrons and votann) retcons because they add more to the universe, by making the factions more interesting and unique, fleshing them out and making the game and setting more diverse.
@@wearegeekoclockin the last few years we had
A new faction randomly appearing in the middle of the Galaxy
A new main battle tank spawning throughout the guards history
Ragnar and Ghazghkul just kind of deciding not to be dead anymore
The Plague Wars pushing the timeline by a hundred years in books one and two before realizing they forget to carry the one and it was only 12 years after Cadia
We have the Dark Elder deciding to give up on their name and start going by Drukari
We've had Primaris Marines cure all the flaws in all the chapters before they suddenly didn't
We had the Iron fucking Warriors, famous for actively avoiding getting corrupted by chaos start sipmping for a wannabe Chaos God
We have a wannabe Chaos God now and always had him
We have Custodes suddenly always having been an armored fighting force acting throughout the Empire instead of their old lore where they gave up their armor and never left Terra
Technically not lore but they retconed the Codex Votan before my preorder got to me so suddenly the army described in the rulebook I just purchased was as a pre order was just fan fiction
Female Custodes don't even register. Oh, the guy who called Custodes a Brotherhood and Demigodsin the 8th edition codex was wrong on both counts, the nameless in universe storyteller is now forever even more ruined as a credible source.
Been into warhammer for years, never played the tabletop game but follow the lore and books. Genuinely don’t understand why female space marines is turning so many folk off? Marines are covered in armor almost the entire time so there’s literally no aesthetic difference.
Some of the hate is probably going to be just sexism, some is definitely the popular hatred for GW in general, and some is because the "lore"(i.e. The current story as told in the codeces and the novels) is stated explicitly in that Space Marines are derived entirely from the male population.
I come from a time when there were literal female Space Marine models and the whole "SM being a boys club" was a retcon in itself... but oh well.
Besides retentive lore nerds, the term you're looking for is rampant misogyny.
It's the reason why the change is being made and how it's being made. Pandering to a male-hating demographic that has not even an interest in warhammer but just wants to manipulate and dictate the rules in something men enjoy and they do it bold-face lying about it. Both fantasy and 40k are already inclusive, no reason to change anything. There are factions heroes and characters of all genders\ethnicities\cultures. Sisters of Battle are one of, if not the coolest factions in 40k and they are female only; do we suddenly need males in it? And what's their bullsh*t excuse for them not being good enough? "Too religious" they say. Laughable. At least have the decency and the guts to tell the real reason
@@sophia_comicart Bro, were not here to hate on women. We want the lore to just be respected. If it's too much for GW then I can always play Bolt Action! Now, that's 'real' lore!
As a Custodes player, I'm convinced the only people upset about this have never or no longer play the game. The active community has been giving this the thumbs up. I for one welcome female space marines when they inevitably get added (maybe with the Emperor's Children release).
As for ret-cons: "First Time?" - Star Wars, Terminator, Doctor Who, Star Trek, DC, Marvel, Jurassic Park fans. People grumble when things change, but that is the nature of fiction over time between authors and editions. It is a constant in 40k just as it is in any extended work of fiction. See Leagues of Votan, Necrons, Primarchs, and even Custodes who didn't even have a faction when I started playing in 3rd edition.
So you listed failed franchises and acted like the changes did good for them. Well bud, you should have stayed silent.
@@attilamarics3374 Star Wars, Dr.Who, Star Trek, Marvel, AND DC are FAR from dead, and theres still a huge fan base for Terminator and Jurassic Park. Stop the nonsense
@@runkus6136 Most of these are financially and critically dont really do well. Newer start trek shows get no viwers. Marvel fails to produce profitable movies for years, Dr. Who is destroyed, and we can go on and on.
If you search a bit, you would find their complains even about merchandize sales. Noone buys the toys.
@@runkus6136 These products dont do well even according to the companies owning them. I dont get your argument. Nobody watches the shows, nobody watches the movies, and nobody buys the toys.
@@runkus6136 Yes they are not dead. Moribund would be a better description. As for a huge fan base for Terminator or Jurassic Park i think its perhaps you that is speaking nonce-sense.
Female custodes ruins lore
Yes, two pages in the 8th edition Codex. The guy who called them the Brotherhood of Demigods is now suddenly wrong on both counts.
I am devastated.
I am not a cusdodes player, and even I'm pissed.
@@thathalodude9306 Good job posting your braindead misogyny online forever.
I would have to disagree, retcons can suck and often do in media but I think this is one of the more ineffectual ones. All I can see it fundamentally changing about custodes is allowing for authors to have more diverse character casts in a custodes based story which I would call a positive
NeoHellPoet if you think it's just 8th lore then your haven't read alot.
Try going back to the original visions of heresy book.