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VR vs Trackir - The REAL truth
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2019
- Re did video with commentary • VR vs Trackir REDO - W... check it out too
Here is the real physical truth behind VR vs TrackIR!
VR can be hard on the neck with all the twisting and turning. Pays to warm up first. But great fun.
If you are considering TrackIR vs VR consider these questions;
Equipment - Can your machine and video card handle VR. Don't except the minimum specs;
Cost - In NZ a Rift S cost twice as much as a new TrackIR set up. If that is no problem;
Resolution - TrackIR is by far the best resolution. Through the Rift or any VR the resolution is significantly less. Don't get fooled by CZcams video's as they are recorded off the screen replicating what is being displayed in the HMD but at the monitors resolution. - However what you lose in resolution you make up for in immersion with VR.
Streaming - If you want to stream or record CZcams videos it is much easier with TrackIR. It is completely doable with VR just not as easy.
If money is not option get both. I will switch between both depending on what I am doing. Money wise for us TrackIR is the best option
Immersion wise VR is the best option.
I strongly recommend you watch these videos from Jar and Sting TV
• Video
• Video
Either way you can't go wrong, you will never go back.
The Flying Kiwis (TFK) a group of New Zealanders that enjoy gaming on their PC's. Formed in the heady days of IL2 1946 we have transitioned to DCS. Mostly we fly air combat simulators and at times have even welcome the occasional Australian.
We don't take ourselves too seriously and neither should you.
Check out TFK www.simcentral...
Discord / discord
We fly;
Sunday night mission 800pm (NZT)
Tuesday night practice 800pm
Thursday night check mission 800pm
Friday night blow shit up 800pm
Music from : www.bensound.com (great place)
First track -birthofahero followed by Evolution
from a guy who used both I prefer Track IR cause you get to play the game in full resolution. VR is fun for other things though like racing and specifically VR games. For flight sims it's better to have a higher resolution to see and identify planes at farther distances that just isnt possible with VR.
I have both and i agree with you. But imagine a monster rig with the 8k VR headset. Did you had the chance to test that headset?
@@gzaos recently I just upgraded my PC with much better specs but I've yet to try it in vr, though I might need a higher resolution VR set, thats a long way off though
@@gzaos i buddy i have a question. When your VR resolution goes up will it turn in cost of fps ? I heard that VR drops fps but will be there Fps difference an example between 720-1080p-2k VR ?
@@streakurtWell duh, of course it will.
Why does it look like VR would break my damn neck? You, my friend, are a beast!
When you are using track iR and trying to look back and with your head turned away, is it hard to use the corner of your eye trying to see the monitor?
No, you get used to it very quickly and you can adjust it to be more or less sensitive (how much you need to move your head or not)
Yoda NZ thank you.
Zsavage1 yeah, no shit it would be. That’s why you keep it in the middle. It’s not jittery and you can see the screen fine
No it's easy
@Zsavage1 except for the shit resolution, its immersion breaking, I have VR haven't used it in age's!
looks real funny with vr haha. imagine the wife calling the neighbours to come and see this. Ok, but my main question...how the hell do you see all the buttons you want to press to say, change Weapons mode and such?
jp kriel mostly they are on the hotas but you can see out of the bottom. I have started using voice attack, using voice commands. Works a treat
In my opinion, trackIR look same awkward. Looking at the wall and with eye's to the monitor. But nobody should think about what others think while watching. A vain train of thought.
@@motionbasti LoL i thought same thing. Are they able to see screen while towording to wall ?
Nice comparison, Yoda!
Philip Bailey - yeah man, it’s hard work for us old fellas
Good comparison! Looked like you got on his six quicker in VR. Luck or is it easier to keep the bandit insight?
I lost sight of him with the trackir against the blue sky. But with the VR that was terrible shooting.
Trackir has the advantage, because of its FOV, when the bandit is behind you you can simply see more. However VR has the advantage in SA when you are focusing on the bandit and there is no reference to the cockpit (frame, canopy). No know exactly where they are in relation to you.
Right now I think the edge goes to Trackir, but the next gen VR will have a wide FOV and better resolution. Then it will shift.
@@Yoda_NZ what is SA? situational awareness?
@@blank6603 yes it is
VR = Neck Strain, TrackIR = Eye Strain. I still have a little twitch in my left eye if I look to the left too far lol. I have been a TrackIR user since 2002 and upgraded to the Pro 4 version in 2004 which I still have. With VR though the feeling of sitting in the cockpit out ways the resolution. Your head movements are just so much more natural than using TrackIR. Air refueling is also a lot easier being able to judge distance makes a huge difference.
Can you tell me specifically what VR device you use? I may consider selling my Track IR and getting a VR. Thanks!
Neck strain like a pilot I imagine. Resolution is not where it needs to be but there are some decent mini marker hacks meanwhile and it’ll get perfect in two years tops
E Knight Samsung Odyssey Plus, which is on sale right now at the Samsung website for $249.
At least the VR headset forces you to use more natural eye and head movements and if you get neck strain the real pilot would get 10 times of that, see it as added immersion :-D
I have VR and Trackir and in my opinion the VR is an eye-strainer at least for me, my brains and eyes get very confused, for example, P51 mustang, looking at the distance, thru sight, looking at sight, or looking at the ball in front of the sight (IL2 P51 that is), they are nearly the same, but in different depth. My eyes are like "whaaaat are you trying to do" .... I think getting used to it better will eventually make this go away but as for now the TIR is super comfy for me and VR is pain in the butt. Not giving up tho. After session the VR feels REALLY unhealthy to me. Almost eye-damaging
VR is the way to go for ultimate immersion. My aviation buddies are blown away by the realism. I use a Rift S as its not too taxing on your system compared to more pixel dense head units yet still provides great graphics(and its cheaper). But the down side is you need a pretty decent CPU and GPU to run DCS at visually pleasing levels. Track IR should be the bare minimum equipment when flying sims or even racing sims. I can however not look at a flat box anymore, VR is just too good so If you can afford it go VR. Good video by the way.
Rodney Du Plessis meh; I’ve used a number of VR headsets and IMO the less than ideal cockpit interface, poor ident range in DCS for WVR fighting due to the lower pixel density ,vs the fidelity of TrackIR and a good monitor just doesn’t make VR that enticing yet. It’s cool, but in BVR it slows down my cockpit interface and in WVR the low pixel density lets me down.
@@TriadAgone I can't argue. The fidelity in cockpit and finding targets visually is not the greatest and VR does drain FPS. Track IR with multiple screens could be a great alternative option. But I can not play in a fixed view. As mentioned track IR for me anyway would be the bare minimum. Depends I guess if you play for fun or if you are a hard core sim guy. The whole appeal to me is the immersion.
Ive never experienced or used trackIR or VR. I recently built my 1st pc and its pretty decent. Rtx 4080, i7-13700k, 64gb ddr5 ram that is quick and matched to my motherboard. The mobo I went with is on par with the rest of the hardware but i forgot what i bought already. 4tb nvme. Will I be able to run VR in DCS or should I go TrackIR. Im asking because I currently have neither. Using VKB Stecs and NXT EVO for hotas & throttle... no rudder pedals yet 😢 Anyways, I'm a couple modules deep into DCS now with a few maps plus play IL-2. I cant seem to wrap my head around moving my head to look at a screen that is static in front of me so VR has been really tempting. Ive already spent alot on my setup (Im running out of budget and wanting to have fun before spending more) I was looking at the Pimax 5k but thats as far as my budget will take me. Just worried about spending that much and finding out my pc cant handle it.
Ok and what about clickable cockpit in VR, how can someone use mouse while in VR?
That is easy. I have my mouse to the left of my throttle and it just easily falls to hand. Of course there is an icon on the screen (in vr) that shows where it is. It is very intuitive.
However arming the ejection seat in the F14 is hard as it right behind you on top of the seat. You physically have to turn around in your seat to see it.
I can't really imagine using my 10 years old TrackIR ever again since I put VR headset on, it could have much worse resolution than it already has and it would still be a big winner compared, can't imagine how can anyone buy Track nowadays. VR is amazing all around, but for sims it is biggest game-changer since introduction of 3D graphics.
is it easy to stil discern your controller inputs? I'm new to DCS and would still be wanting to see my buttons to make sure im hitting the right one - can you see the keyboard by looking down through a vr headset?
@@justinpape5718 I just started DCS today using VR; I have the original Oculus Rift, for reference. There's a small gap between the headset and your nose where you can see the buttons, but that size will vary based off of facial structure. My biggest issue is the resolution; I can't make out bearings or anything in the cockpit. Not sure if the resolution increases on the newer headsets is enough to mitigate that issue yet.
@@RhodesianBushmaster that's why I don't use my cv1 anymore, poor poor resolution, maybe in another 10 years but for now I'd rather trackir 5 or just a monitor, I play at 1440p and the detail is amazing!
@@Cagefighter I've been looking at both Trackir 5 and Tobii Eye Tracking 5 for that very reason. I'm stuck between those two. Any opinion you can offer?
@@RhodesianBushmaster don't see the point of eye tracking
I am a track IR user with DCS f-18 but I am considering trying VR. My question is how do you access the panel controls with that mask on? Do you reach out and touch the buttons with virtual fingertips, or do you feel around for the mouse?
I use the mouse. It is to the left of my throttle (thrustmaster warthog) so it easily falls to hand. That combined with the HOTAS means I can do almost everything without lifting off the headset.
For the F1 - F10 keys I did used to peak out of the bottom of the headset while having the keyboard on my knees. I have just brought Voice Attack and now I don't need to do that anymore and can just say "F1" or "map".
I haven't looked into getting any gloves, it would be interesting to see what it is like using them.
@@Yoda_NZ thank you for the info sir. I think I'll just stick with TrackIR. That VR sounds like a pain in the booty.
@@eknight101 Don't dismiss VR as a pain. Lots of my friend fly it exclusively now. It is different but VERY immersive. Ideally have both. I re did this video with some commentary, check it out as I have some other thoughts in it too.
@@eknight101 Absolutely not. I use an hotas and VoiceBot and I don't miss any physical button. I think that you will miss the unique sensation of being there, which a monitor + TrackIR can't match. When I tried for the first time IL-2 and DCS in VR (and Project Cars 2, rFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa), I stopped using my trackIR.
@@Yoda_NZ Ok, I will do that. thanks for the info
kamouzis
1 second ago
can anyone tell me in practical use terms, if your in VR how does it work when you need to use keyboard keys? if you have a full hotas is every button you need on those or do you have to keep lifting p the VR to find keys? also with VR can you adjust the tracking from 1:1 to 2:1 to reduce the need for head movement a little bit or is it always 1:1? how uncomfortable/tiring is VR on scale 1-10?
I think you can only do 1:1 I haven’t seen anything around increasing that.
Most people I know with vr use hotas, plus they fly the full clickable cockpits in dcs. So you can also use a mouse. It is often possible to look down by your nose and there is a small gap with the headset. I have flown with the keyboard on my lap and could see what I needed to on the keyboard
@@Yoda_NZ thanks dude!
You need triple screens. Then it feels much better when you turn your head you’re still looking at a screen.
But you cannot look above, below or behind that way. Unless you live in a cube of monitors. But then VR is going to be more immersive and practical I guess.
I test both options, 3 monitors vs big TV with trackIR... Big Tv wins.
same as in driving sim, VR is cool and fun. But when it s time to get serious triple screen is the king.
Finally got the good combo: Track IR + my old sony HMZ-T3W , Project Wingman working fine, full options with my i5 4590+ 1050ti...
Indeed, it's too blured using the Oculus...
Outstanding!
I've done both and if you are into realism then the Rift S is the way to go. It's a good headset for the money.
Everything is bigger in VR is the biggest difference.
Wow súper nice comparison, I love TR what it's ur conf PC?
For me track ir is best because of resolution, i had the rift cv1, but i sell it because of bad graphic quality...Vr is nice for immersion but it look like as graphics from the 15 years ago (lol) i prefer my 4k screan
Actually I did the same when I had the CV1. Then I brought the Rift S, there was a good sized jump but still 50/50 on whether VR or Trackir. I now have the Reverb and I have to say the resolution is pretty damn good. I can spot aircraft 35 miles away and seeing ground targets are much easier.
With the Reverb I think the edge now goes to VR
Supurb3 video showing the differences in 3rd person and first person. Great comparision
I am using bot depend on which aircraft I'm using. When I fly F/A-18 Hornet, than I use my Oculus Quest 2. But when using the Flanker than I prefer TeackIR5 coz as you know you need to use many keys to operate
I tend to do that now too. I fly in TrackIR if I am recording
@@Yoda_NZ you can do it also with VR
@@arescyp you can but I don’t think the output is as good
@@Yoda_NZ it works perfect. You just need to do some few stuff first..I have find a great website how to do it. We'll send you the link later today
@@arescyp thanks that would be useful
But with the trackIR do you move your head while you continue to watch monitor?
Isn't it uncomfortable for crooked eyes? 👀😜 maybe you need 3 monitors.
You get used to it very quickly. Does work well with 3 monitors
So, i know where the music come from, but what are the names of the two tracks ?
First track -birthofahero followed by Evolution
@@Yoda_NZ many thanks !!
my question may be not relate to the video title. did you put the throttle a little higher than the stick?
GrimReapers1974 only because that was as low as the keyboard tray will go. I have been looking at building something lower for it but haven’t gotten around to it yet
WHAT JOYSTICK YOU ARE USING
iDC_El_CANGRY_V3 I use a thrustmaster warthog
The headset seems so shaky and seems to have a lot of motion blur. Can you notice it after a while or do you get use to it? I am just getting started with DCS and one of the reasons I am more attracted to Track IR is because it seems much more smooth. I see a lot of DCS streamers use it too.
You quickly get used to it. I run an i7 9700 with 16GB of DDR4 3200 with DCS and windows on seperate SSDs. Normally I don't have any problems with motion blur. I was recording the flight and running tacview at the same time. So there was a good load on my system.
If you are considering TrackIR vs VR consider these questions;
Equipment - Can your machine and video card handle VR. Don't except the minimum specs;
Cost - In NZ a Rift S cost twice as much as a new TrackIR set up. If that is no problem;
Resolution - TrackIR is by far the best resolution. Through the Rift or any VR the resolution is significantly less. Don't get fooled by CZcams video's as they are recorded off the screen replicating what is being displayed in the HMD but at the monitors resolution. - However what you lose in resolution you make up for in immersion with VR.
Streaming - If you want to stream or record CZcams videos it is much easier with TrackIR. It is completely doable with VR just not as easy.
If money is not option get both. I will switch between both depending on what I am doing. Money wise for us TrackIR is the best option
Immersion wise VR is the best option.
I strongly recommend you watch these videos from Jar and Sting TV
czcams.com/video/qUlDJ2wHFP4/video.html
czcams.com/video/smTPpz-XDwg/video.html
Either way you can't go wrong, you will never go back.
Happy flying, come join us at TFK sometime
Yoda NZ Thank you so much for the long and in depth reply!
The shake you see is not VR it is the persons natural head shake, the tracking is that precise. You will never notice it when using it, because you are doing it in real life. The motion blur is product of video recording in VR and you will not see that either while using it.
Stew is spot on there. You don’t notice it when using but it shows you how much you actually move your head around, trackir doesn’t show that. Recording in vr is a pain in the arse, at least for me
How much harder is it to do all the functions though. I notice that while you were using TrackIR you used the keyboard in your lap for some commands. With the Rift S on that's not possible right? It doesn't have an external camera right?
Yes I have to say there are draw backs to wearing a headset like that. But if I think about it for DCS I only use a couple of keys (U - carrier shuttle hook up, F10 - Map, F2 - outside view). I could map those to my HOTAS but have been too lazy.
I think the biggest draw back is reading any written notes or instructions. I was trying to learn the F14 Counter Measure procedures which I had written down. Can't do that with a head set on. The Rift S has pass through, which is an external camera but I believe you need to select a button on the hand controllers to do that. As I don't use the controllers while flying I can't use it.
It is not a problem as there is a little gap between my nose and the headset that I can see out off.
you can look out near the nose... so its a small drawback i would say... and if you bind the most used commands to your hotas it isnt a problem..:)
Nick is absolutely right I can see out a little down by my nose. Which is ok. I might try voice attack as an alternative for those keys not bound to my hotas.
@@nosadk I now use Voice attack and it is bloody amazing. Wished I had used it earlier now
good review.
For fighter jet, absolutely VR.
Hahahahaha!! That was funny. I’ll stick with my Track IR.
I didnt know you were into the flight sims, I have been wanting to get into it just don't know where to start.
Murphy's Law NZ there a good group of us that fly. Wide range of skills. Mostly do dcs but I’ve brought il2 in the sale. Drop me a line if you have any questions. Like racing there are lots of options out there
Buy DCS. It’s free!
Yup there is no question the immersion and realism is so nice with VR, but my neck just couldn’t take it so I am back to track IR. Sucks getting older :-(
LOL I hear you. I actually still use both now
Can VR deal with presbyopia? Or we wear our reading glasses inside the headset?
@@sleepy_dobe The VR optics are usually set for "distance vision" (it's the least strain on the eyes). Most can accept glasses, with or without extensions (not needed for me). There are also several places that can make prescription lenses specially to fit in.
So I may be extremely late to the video, but which do you recommend? I’ve been trying to figure out what’s better for dcs and war thunder.
The $64 question. I still use both. If I am streaming or recording I use flat screen and TIR as the recorded results are better. If I am just flying, either on line or by myself I'll use VR as it is more immersive.
If you want to be competitive then TIR is the better option as the definition is better and you can see more
If you are learning systems then TIR as you might be reading something of a tablet or watching a tutorial video
Both DCS and war thunder work well in VR. Check out MAGZTV youtube channel he does a lot of VR war thunder and does very well. Great videos too
I'm not sure there is an easy answer for your question unfortunately
@@Yoda_NZ Thanks for the advice! I’ll check him out. Sounds like vr is the choice for me as I seem to have the luck of not finding any hostile for 20 minutes straight and then the fight ending in 1 missile, so I’ll be just flying around not doing much for a while. O7
4:30 what is this horizontal line?
No that was my head through the canopy. :)
Each has its pros and cons. I was considering TrackIR but then my main concern was, when I turn my head to look sideways or behind, I literally won't be able to see my monitor and so won't know what my eyeline is seeing. With VR, the problem comes when you need to access the mouse or keyboard to select stuff. Resolution differences aside.
With TIR you don't have to turn your head too far. Since this video I have increased the sensitivity and don't need to move my head much at all.
Show battle with a lot of planes. Show how the computer with VR will slow down
You can see it already, I’ve got some time playing dcs vr, it is not the same... in the googles you don’t see as good as on screen, VR need to evolve more.. you can see the FPS drops then he shoot the gun... the resolution of the VR is not so great, tho I would love to play DCS in 4K VR on 60 FPS pure... but it will happen in couple of years I hope ! Till then I enjoy trackIR .. no FPS leaks, and 2 k resolution ssd ofc... can’t play dcs without ssd !!!
The problem with looking around is not really VR but your seat, I sit in one that ends below the shoulders and I can look around a lot easier. With a good seating position you can look around as good or even better as a real pilot.
Hadn't thought of it that way. I'll have to try that out.
Do you know if a 1060 3gb could handle vr in dcs?
asser one of our guys was able to do that but had to turn everything down. If you wait a couple of months for the new 30 series cards all the old ones should get a heap cheaper
Excellent demonstration, I think I'll go for the Track IR :).
I think that you are going to make the wrong decision. As a former user of TrackIR, IMO, that system is outdated compared to VR headsets.
I’ll go vr if I get a donation of one vr headset 😂
Resolution is the deciding factor for me. From all reviews I’ve seen that is the limiting factor when it comes to VR.
I would agree with that. It is a question on resolution over immersion. With the newer HMDs coming out it is getting closer and closer. I would love to try a Reverb but can only afford the Rift for now.
Resolution needs to be higher to be per perfect, of course a normal monitor with less resolution standing a meter or more away will give you a sharper image, but do you really see better in comparison to VR headset which provides you maybe twice the FOV + perfect scaling of the world + proper 3D and depth and the possibility to look around 1:1 link in real life. Feels much more natural and real even though the resolution might be less appealing for me the pros stand out by far. I think if a real pilot in a real plane gets the canopy blacked out and has to choose between replacing it with a flat screen just in front of him or a VR headset I know what he would choose.
I currently play DCS with the HTC Vive (1st Gen) and it's annoyingly heavy and after 15 minutes your whole forehead is sweaty. Really big downside of playing with VR. And alot of cable mess in your neck and annoying sensors.
I'm going to get TrackIR asap.
@@Tuyaresa hm none of those issues I have or at least doesn't see them as critical maybe. But some are more sensitive than others. I use VR exclusively since 5 years now and since the beginning there is no way back to a flat screen for me in any type of simulator.
@@MixedRealitySimRacing I can understand that. VR is way more immersive tho. I just hooked up my girlfriends Oculus Quest to my PC and it works like a charm!
Quest has way better quality and is much lighter and comfortable on the head :)
what VR is that? nice air battle sir ...
That was an Oculus Rift S. I now use a Reverb G2
Without comparison, VR has won 🏆 🏅
I still use both. But if I’m not recording or streaming then I’m definitely in vr
@@Yoda_NZVirtual reality requires a lot of power 🤣
This does not even come close to showing the difference between the two. Thats the thing with VR. You can't show it, you can only experience it.
Aye and theres no way to get a demo...grrrr.
Vr might look more immersive, but you get tired faster.
and motion sick!
so what is the truth mate?
VIRTUAL DRIVER it was to show VR is great but to look behind you, you really have to look completely behind you. Unlike trackir where you simply turn your head. I did a redo video and try to explain it on that. Have to admit it is bloody brilliantly for driving!
@@Yoda_NZ thanks for reply, I never tried trakingir and am verious curoius. Im vr user and I love it, but is to intense and not recomendable for long sesions. I just find kind of difficult to look at other side and with the eyes look at the screen? Regards
VIRTUAL DRIVER you get used to it pretty quickly plus you can adjust it so you don’t have to move your head much. I still use both trackir and vr
Your trackir setup is bad! :(
It’s bad? How tf can you even classify that as bad... You clip on a cam to yo pc and clip a tracker to your headset, there ain’t much room for error
@@gottabe_jt8053 he means it's badly calibrated. Considering how small his screen is, he should've made the head movement much more sensitive. Looks like he could barely see the screen, when looking around the canopy!