Shapers are like that. Very soporific, but with that huge gear reduction they have the potential to be very dangerous! If you watch the video on the theory, dry and dull as it may be, its not as complicated as you think!
@ThePottingShedWorkshop considering I don't know anything about machine work. It's all fascinating to me. I'm wanting to dip to toes in the shallow end of the pool and start learning something new though. I need to up my math skills by a lot though. I've forgotten most of the math I learned 4o yrs ago.
Excellent video. I finally understand how it all works 🥳 I can now also really appreciate the effort you had to go through to cut me the custom 12.27 DP 22T and 74T gear to replace the broken helical gears. Thanks again for that, the old Warco lathe would have never ran again with all the speed ranges without your help!
I am an another 10M shaper owner. I really appreciate your work! I know that it's beyond my "math anxiety" (an American, which I'm not, which I describes very well my reaction to seeing calculations!). I haven't tried it yet, but the two posts and wire drive is also an amazing shaper application. Thank you for this great video! All the best, Matthew.
This is the coolest setup I've ever seen. Just watching it work away is therapeutic - a marvel of engineering, tooling and geometry. The over hang on the clapper box tool hold down would bother me but that is a work of art.
Thank you! I agree the tool stick out is a bit much but is needed for clearance. However, I have an extended toolholder that I'll try and use for the next video which should increase rigidity.
Fantastic series, we have a similar system where a Bridgeport slotting head is mounted on the Z of a CNC mill, stroke in the x axis, the rotary axis holds the blank. It will cut any pitch and any helix angle gear you want, we make our cutters the same way, but with a surface grinder and a jig to achieve the angle. recently we provided a 17dp helical gear for a 1920's Fay and Bowman T head engine oil pump drive. Kudos on the math, at least here in the states the concept of pitch diameter seems to be elusive.
Thanks for watching! Thats the beauty of a setup like this, not being tied to standard DPs or modules. As for helical gears, thats coming in the next video!
@@ThePottingShedWorkshopAnd the tooling is very economical vs hobs or even single milling cutters! I found a short video of the slotting head cutting a rack, I'll see if I can figure out how to send it to you
Thank you! I made the video in the first place as, having worked out how to make this attachment, I thought I'd share the knowledge. So, thanks for helping to publicise it.
This is a fascinating series to watch. It's a long process and I wondered how long it actually took to produce the gear in total. And I mean from the start of cutting the gear on the shaper, not making the blank as well. I'd imagine it was at least two hours the machine was running, if not more. Now I can understand why machinists say it was far quicker on the horizontal milling machine running a multi toothed involute cutter. You could do that in one pass per tooth in a production setting especially if the gear was aluminium. In steel you'd probably have to do it in two passes, but that's one or two passes under the cutter, whereas god knows how many strokes of the shaper ram there was per tooth multiplied by the number of teeth. The industry bean counters must have been in ecstasy when the involute cutters came in for the horizontal mills lol. That said the shaper is a very cool machine and can do some excellent work. I've watched Abom79 and Steve summers do some really cool and interesting projects on their shapers. I've only just found your channel and have subscribed after first video of this series. Now I will binge watch your videos!
Thank you for watching! Yes, it is a long process. Each pass takes approx 2 minutes per tooth, 11 teeth and 5 passes per tooth to get to depth and you're not far off 2 hours. That assumes you can concentrate for that long (I showed you the results of a loss of concentration! 🤣). For spur gears in steel the process can be speeded up by gashing the teeth with a slitting saw (or an involute cutter that leaves material to be removed) followed by final machining on the shaper. The big advantage of the shaper is the DIY tooling. Of course in industry a hobbing machine is even quicker than involute cutters. I still watch Steve Summers but stopped watching Abom79 after it degenerated into either promoting products or trying to learn CNC. Thanks for subscribing and watching!
Thank you! I don't think I'll take up your suggestion though as I'd never make any money from it🤣. It's far too slow, but it is cheap tooling in a home workshop.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop The speed is just a matter of percpective. It is much faster than you think. Have you tried to ask a machine shop to make a gear? They would say ohh my friend…. come back two week later, because we are doing a serial job. When you go back to the shop they say ok, we can do it. Come back for the gear a week later. Unfortunately that is the thruth. So, your solution is pretty fast.👍👍😊
Rust: Try setting up a commercial gear hobbing machine with mechanical indexing gear box. One needs a boxful of gears to cover every tooth count. A friend of mine and I designed and built an electronic gearbox to take the out tedium of gear changes for every tooth count. For one-offs the gear changing was enough to drive you to drink:-))
only just found you,, what a setup!( subscribed) i own an Victoria milling machine and have the dividing head assembly but not the banjo and gears so i was really glad to see your set up. what country are you in ,, England?? great vid and now i have to look at your previous ones!!!
I got lucky when I bought my universal dividing head in that it came in almost unused condition in its original shipping crate, with all the accessories that it would have been supplied with. Gears and banjo, tailstock, machine jack, dividing plates, dead centre on an ISO40 taper arbor with drive dog for driving the work. It wasn't cheap though.
I see it in operation, but it still boggles my mind, that it does what it does. Mesmerizing and hypnotic.
Shapers are like that. Very soporific, but with that huge gear reduction they have the potential to be very dangerous! If you watch the video on the theory, dry and dull as it may be, its not as complicated as you think!
@ThePottingShedWorkshop considering I don't know anything about machine work. It's all fascinating to me. I'm wanting to dip to toes in the shallow end of the pool and start learning something new though. I need to up my math skills by a lot though. I've forgotten most of the math I learned 4o yrs ago.
Excellent video. I finally understand how it all works 🥳
I can now also really appreciate the effort you had to go through to cut me the custom 12.27 DP 22T and 74T gear to replace the broken helical gears. Thanks again for that, the old Warco lathe would have never ran again with all the speed ranges without your help!
You're welcome. If only I'd been able to cut helicals when I did them I could have replicated the originals rather than make them a non standard DP!
I am an another 10M shaper owner. I really appreciate your work! I know that it's beyond my "math anxiety" (an American, which I'm not, which I describes very well my reaction to seeing calculations!). I haven't tried it yet, but the two posts and wire drive is also an amazing shaper application. Thank you for this great video! All the best, Matthew.
Thanks for watching, glad you liked it!
This is the coolest setup I've ever seen. Just watching it work away is therapeutic - a marvel of engineering, tooling and geometry. The over hang on the clapper box tool hold down would bother me but that is a work of art.
Thank you! I agree the tool stick out is a bit much but is needed for clearance. However, I have an extended toolholder that I'll try and use for the next video which should increase rigidity.
Fantastic series, we have a similar system where a Bridgeport slotting head is mounted on the Z of a CNC mill, stroke in the x axis, the rotary axis holds the blank. It will cut any pitch and any helix angle gear you want, we make our cutters the same way, but with a surface grinder and a jig to achieve the angle. recently we provided a 17dp helical gear for a 1920's Fay and Bowman T head engine oil pump drive. Kudos on the math, at least here in the states the concept of pitch diameter seems to be elusive.
Thanks for watching! Thats the beauty of a setup like this, not being tied to standard DPs or modules. As for helical gears, thats coming in the next video!
@@ThePottingShedWorkshopAnd the tooling is very economical vs hobs or even single milling cutters! I found a short video of the slotting head cutting a rack, I'll see if I can figure out how to send it to you
These videos are really something. Excellent presentation! Very informative, very interesting!
Thanks for the compliments. Rather than thinking how well I present, I tend to cringe!
Outstanding engineer in developing the system 👏👏👏👌
Thank you. Building off what others have done, thats all.
shapers can do so much. fantastic machine
Great work. We posted this video (and the first two parts) on our homemade tools forum, and people really liked it.
Thank you! I made the video in the first place as, having worked out how to make this attachment, I thought I'd share the knowledge. So, thanks for helping to publicise it.
This is a fascinating series to watch. It's a long process and I wondered how long it actually took to produce the gear in total. And I mean from the start of cutting the gear on the shaper, not making the blank as well. I'd imagine it was at least two hours the machine was running, if not more. Now I can understand why machinists say it was far quicker on the horizontal milling machine running a multi toothed involute cutter. You could do that in one pass per tooth in a production setting especially if the gear was aluminium. In steel you'd probably have to do it in two passes, but that's one or two passes under the cutter, whereas god knows how many strokes of the shaper ram there was per tooth multiplied by the number of teeth. The industry bean counters must have been in ecstasy when the involute cutters came in for the horizontal mills lol. That said the shaper is a very cool machine and can do some excellent work. I've watched Abom79 and Steve summers do some really cool and interesting projects on their shapers. I've only just found your channel and have subscribed after first video of this series. Now I will binge watch your videos!
Thank you for watching! Yes, it is a long process. Each pass takes approx 2 minutes per tooth, 11 teeth and 5 passes per tooth to get to depth and you're not far off 2 hours. That assumes you can concentrate for that long (I showed you the results of a loss of concentration! 🤣). For spur gears in steel the process can be speeded up by gashing the teeth with a slitting saw (or an involute cutter that leaves material to be removed) followed by final machining on the shaper. The big advantage of the shaper is the DIY tooling.
Of course in industry a hobbing machine is even quicker than involute cutters.
I still watch Steve Summers but stopped watching Abom79 after it degenerated into either promoting products or trying to learn CNC.
Thanks for subscribing and watching!
Very good and interesting content on this channel👍👍👍
Thank you. I'm trying to show a few different things rather than repeating what has been shown elsewhere.
Absolutely genius(brilliant), thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
It is amazing. This attachement as good as you should make gears as a job. :)
I looking forward your next video with this setup.
Thank you! I don't think I'll take up your suggestion though as I'd never make any money from it🤣. It's far too slow, but it is cheap tooling in a home workshop.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop
The speed is just a matter of percpective. It is much faster than you think. Have you tried to ask a machine shop to make a gear? They would say ohh my friend…. come back two week later, because we are doing a serial job. When you go back to the shop they say ok, we can do it. Come back for the gear a week later. Unfortunately that is the thruth.
So, your solution is pretty fast.👍👍😊
Wow that's impressive ! I'm another Elliott 10M owner.
Thanks for watching! Yes, I know you have a 10M. I've been following your channel for ages!
brilliant, thanks you Sir. My problem just got solved looking at it.
Glad to help😁
Amazing setup
Thank you!
Thanks for the nice video, you are really clever. 👍
Glad you enjoyed the video. Not sure about the second bit though, just did a lot of research and combined ideas from elsewhere!
What I like in your setup is the number of gears you need to be able to cut a gear :)
It does seem a bit like the chicken and the egg, needing gears to make gears😆
Rust: Try setting up a commercial gear hobbing machine with mechanical indexing gear box. One needs a boxful of gears to cover every tooth count.
A friend of mine and I designed and built an electronic gearbox to take the out tedium of gear changes for every tooth count. For one-offs the gear changing was enough to drive you to drink:-))
Exelente trabajo, mis felicitaciones porque ha sido un arduo trabajo para llegar a consolidar tan bella ejecucion
Thank you!
only just found you,, what a setup!( subscribed) i own an Victoria milling machine and have the dividing head assembly but not the banjo and gears so i was really glad to see your set up. what country are you in ,, England?? great vid and now i have to look at your previous ones!!!
Glad you liked it, and thanks for subscribing! The banjo and gears do tend to get lost and cost a lot to buy second hand.
Yup, I'm in England.
I got lucky when I bought my universal dividing head in that it came in almost unused condition in its original shipping crate, with all the accessories that it would have been supplied with.
Gears and banjo, tailstock, machine jack, dividing plates, dead centre on an ISO40 taper arbor with drive dog for driving the work.
It wasn't cheap though.