Oppositional Defiant Disorder in Adulthood
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Oppositional Defiant Disorder, sometimes referred to as ODD, is a condition characterised by a continuing pattern of behaviour that can be defiant, hostile, un-cooperative and disruptive towards others, in particular authority figures.
This video looks at some of the common characteristics and traits of ODD and how they present in day to day life, relationships and at work.
00:00 Intro What is ODD?
01:50 Co Morbidity
02:21 Common Characteristics
04:49 Defiance Disorder in Relationships
06:47 Defiance Disorder at work
08:58 Living with ODD
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Please feel free to suggest any topics you might like me to cover in future videos in the comment section.
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#oppositionaldefiant #personalitydisorder #defiance
I am a mother living with an adult child who has ODD. In my experience I can unequivocally say that he was born already exhibiting these moods and behaviors and our family is still today learning how to navigate this often painful and disruptive disorder. He is an intelligent young man and I do know that he loves his family but it can be incredibly hard to be on the receiving end.
My older brother has ODD. Our childhood was perfectly fine. This came out of nowhere when he got older. I was 13 when this all started. Now I'm 18. Over the course of him having it, he has destroyed our TV, walls, computer, fought my dad who had to restrain him, hurt my mom's shoulder, got the police involved several times because someone else called them or it was me and my infuriated, young helplessly crying self. It contributed to my depression extensively. Almost everyday for the past five years I've been feeling horrible that my loving, kind parents gave birth to this repulsive creature. Just yesterday he was throwing a hissy fit again because my mom gave him simple advice and he started lashing out. He's 24 but he acts like he is 7. It is embarassing, exasperating, and I feel like I'm choking on the fact that even when my parents unfortunately die one day, he will be my burden or the burden of one of my sweet relatives.
It really does hurt being on the recieving end, or watching my parents have to put up with him. He can't hold a job, he is dirty, and his twisted mind can't comprehend the simplest things. I wish I could say despite it all, he loves us, but no. Really, the most is just his meds talking when he's in a good mood. If he were to come off of them, things would go back to how they were similar to 5 years ago when he was at his peak of ruining our lives.
If the ODD is in a spouse it is a nightmare.
😢
Absolutely been a nightmare for 3 years now...... 😔 I feel this so deeply!
Next time I see my brother I’m going to give him a big hug. He won’t know why. No point telling him as he will rip my head off. But I will hug and show him love
My best friend has this. We almost always get in an argument at restaurants. He can mention politics, but if I say anything I am too loud and he goes into a panic. He's super worried about how people perceive him. Traffic is horrible. It's like he's stepped into a video game and everyone around is an opponent. He imagines that random cars are trying to "block him in. " He will race to pass people with a curve coming up. He knows when it's dangerous and says "I'm going for it! " and hits the gas. When I try to point things out it's all my fault. These things are perfectly normal. He tells me that I am a narcissist. It never ends. He thrives on the conflict.
Sounds like a great best friend.
@@milesmoose 😂
It might be wise to ask yourself why you’d willingly continue a relationship who treats you like this? That isn’t what a healthy partnership (friend or romantic) looks like.
@@user-ju3xc4fi6e I totally agree but we've been friends for 30 years.... And we used to be romantic. There are some benefits. He is now a millionaire and he supported me for a few years while I was trying to get disability. So I had to answer to him somewhat. It is so weird when he has an argument. He gets super super pissed off and then as soon as it's over it's almost as if he's had an orgasm. He gets super calmed and happy as if he just got off. Now he lives a state away.... But oddly he happens to be in town right now. And he just called me and asked me to go on a shopping trip an hour away and I turned him down. Cuz I just don't want to deal with that. B*******. 🤣
I have known someone with ODD his entire life. He's now an adult. I think the person you described may not have been diagnosed and has little insight, hence a lot of believing he or she is a victim or persecuted unfairly. In my experience, the ODD patient is vindictive , provokes people, argues about everything, will switch sides just to argue. He told me he feels an internal resistance at being told to do anything, and that he can't stand to be controlled. He was diagnosed very young and is well aware this could be a problem for work. He prefers jobs with well defined procedures, so he can compartmentalise. He tries to put authority aside by thinking he's chosen to just follow the procedure. He feels the same about driving. There's a procedure, thus no road rage. He does believe rules don't or shouldn't apply to him. He still gives his family a hard time, with zero cooperation and constant argument. They are the easiest to control. Others can walk away. I realise this is just one case.
one of my friend's husband is like that. you cannot have strait conversations with him. you must talk to him in 2 times: 1- you share information and he denies everything and act oppositional. you have to drop it. 2- you talk again about this later. now he will be able to understand and share his own feelings.
every conversation you begin with him ends in arguments. so frustrating and infuriating! I love my friend so every time I meet them at home, I must deal with him. it's really like talking to a 5 yo child.
I’m a mother of an adult with this condition, I understand because it’s really difficult the relationship, very hard.
Some of these people might have felt excessively pushed around as children.
As someone with this, as well as many other things, the comments are scaring me. Nobody chooses to have a disorder, it takes a lot to twist somebody up to get them this way. Personally I have lots of trauma and parents who denied it or who didn’t know how to handle anything properly because they had me at 15. Also living with my super conservative father for 2 weeks at a time, then living with my super liberal mother the other 2 made the expectations of each home so different that rules made by adults felt unreliable. Anything I did right at one place was wrong at the other. I am not evil, I suffered a lot and got wired wrong. Everyone has a potential for change, but that decreases significantly if nobody believes or treats you like you can get better.
@TheNerual17, You seem very self-aware in an atmosphere where that's really an accomplishment. ❤🙏🏼
... i agree.. the self awareness you have is admirable..
sending all best vibes your way ... from Australia .. x
Hugs
If you put in the effort it takes, and take responsability for your every action, being kind to yourself as well as thy neighbor, I’m convinced things will work out great for you! Love’s the only engine of survival!
Yes but abusing somebody else it’s not how you fix it
My father will be asked NOT to do something and then continue to do that very thing. He will apologize and say "Oh, that must have been embarrassing/frustrating" but his actions continue/don't change.
He goes down one way streets, enters "do not enter" doors or roads, cuts in line, walks off without my mom when she's asked him not to do that (she has directional issues and gets lost easily), he cuts lines and just doesn't think rules apply to him. He will take most of the food at a dinner for 4 people, leaving little food for the rest of us and when confronted, he wiggles in his chair as he's "fixing his plate" like he's a little child that got away with something.....
It doesn't help that our whole family enables him with not speaking up, phrases like "oh, that's just your dad..."
He is not safe for me to get close to because of these characteristics....and I love him so much, but his actions can be MADDENING!
One time he insulted me in front of our family at dinner, I got up to leave because I was so hurt and angry and he LAUGHED at me as I walked upstairs!!! WTH??
What father laughs at his daughters pain?
It's so confusing.
Sometimes he's sensitive and opens up, but then it's intermittent with these other behaviors!
He's impulsive about things he says via text or online social media...he's constantly getting into trouble with family members for doing/saying things that are inappropriate...which makes me think he's impulsive without thinking OR he is purposefully doing it in order to rile someone else up to watch them spin! 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
I've had to disconnect my heart from him and just not care about what he does or says. It's no matter to me anymore. I no longer try to get any of my self worth from him because with him, there isn't much support, compliments, encouragement....and I'm his only daughter 😢
My sister has this and never grew out of it. She mellowed out slowly over the years but I don't think this a condition many kids ever grow out of.
It's definitely not a condition that I'm ever going to grow out of I'm always going to be the same person I've always been but the reason I don't get Optionally Defiant very often anymore is because I'm not pushed to do things that I don't feel interested in doing anymore like I was from the age of 1-19 💯
This reminds me of dealing with my sister (who appears like a malignant narcissist) who DEMANDS the opposite of whatever is near her 24/7 that she is threatened by. I know it’s not the same, but it’s one of the few ways I can describe what it’s like to live around this kind of person. I try and be open to various issues people might experience, but there is a point when I need to have a life that isn’t dominated by high maintenance people. I paid my dues to an extreme. My childhood and circumstances can’t be changed, and it’s time to let them find other sources of supply. Thank you Darren for the run down of what oppositional defiance disorder is so I can study the difference.
Very similar indeed to my sister - she's now a walking checklist for narcissistic personality disorder.
They 'foul' you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
awesum..... you should publish .. x
@@mzliberty7647 i don't think Philip Larkin would be impressed if somebody else published his poem!
@@lilithowl ... opps .... forgot the tongue in cheek ....
I have trouble stopping my dysregulation and other symptoms even though I bitterly regret my actions after. Even if I realize whats going on mid-mess I can't stop it most of the time. I just have to self-isolate. That only leaves me depressed and with no self self esteem or trust in my ability to socialize or even have romantic connections.
Same with me.
Thorough and clear explanation of ODD in adults. It explains a lot and answers many questions about a relationship I’ve had. Thank you ❤
I'm just here to read the comments people with odd. I have an adult stepson that has it at 38 years old.
He was abandoned by his father and I think his father also had this. Until we got married come his mom had to work two jobs to stay afloat.
He's always blaming others for problems he causes, can never take any advice, won't clean up after himself or take a shower, is constantly in financial problems, can't see his kid because he can't stop cursing out his ex, and absolutely refuses any form of treatment or diagnosis. We've tried to even bribe him to go see a therapist but he won't.
There is a relative of mine that he disagrees with me on EVERYTHING, I’m not exaggerating if I say A he says it’s B, if he says A in the morning and I repeat what he said in the afternoon he disagrees with me, it’s unbearable, the guy only disagrees and turn me down on everything, and when he doesn’t know about the subject he disagrees anyway but tells a lie to back his argument.
Legitimate bratty child behavior.
My brother is extremely ODD. He cant work a job. He does not drive a car. If you ask him to help he will get angry and avoid helping. He fights with everyone. Hes 48 years old and was stabbed in the chest on a street corner. He constantly asks me and others for money. Its so sad. When he was in 2nd grade he thew an eraser in his teachers eye. When we were teenagers, we both had to do chores and we got into a huge fight, i got kicked out because my mother favored him. I get jealous when i see adult siblings enjoying each other because i know that is a relationship that i will never have.
Well, mom is to blame unfortunately. He was praised for his bad behavior and rewarded for acting out so that's all he knows
That sounds like a npd mother and golden child son relationship
My older brother is 24 and has ODD too. He acts 7, I can't imagime him turning 40+ and behaving like this still. My parents don't deserve it.
@@KhadijahsMamma that's exactly what it is. I am a survivor of narcissistic abuse. Thank you for recognizing this. You made my day!
It sounds so much like my ex narc hubby. Thank you, Darren and blessings to you 🙏🏻🎉
Wow. This is true of my sibling and me, who feel wronged. And we rebel authority. It's hard to accept that we have ODD
I’ll tell you one thing, knowledge is powerful. Understanding the characteristics of these people is the first step to recognizing and overcoming the relentless torture they try to impose upon their victims.
Don’t be a victim, be indifferent.
@@thisperson9758
You have no control over your behaviour? I missed that part in the description given in the video.
I feel for you but, it is my duty to protect my mind, body and soul.
@@thisperson9758
Good luck to you. I glad you’re in counselling.
Very poorly constructed.
Just begining to watch, I had come across this disorder years ago, thinking my husband ( now ex) has it. He's sneaky, no blatant defiance, but behind the back. I also thought he has traits of a sociopath, or psychopath. Unfairness, yes, car break down it was " why me", or the disgusted " OF COURSE", chip on the shoulder. Easily frustrated, breaks something if it doesn't work the first time, fit throwing. Refused to come help when I was broke down, his attitude towards others is " nobody ever helps me", which is obviously not true.
I think my family would diagnose me with this. And I am very opposed to them because of their continued abuse. I am very suspicious of any kind of authority, rules or power figures. I’m not sure it goes as far as ODD though. I will keep an eye on it to make sure I keep it under control and it doesn’t become dysfunctional. Thank you!
Are you manipulative, controlling, and two-faced sweet to people who benefit you, but nitpick who you reveal your true colors to, and with those people who may have never done a thing to you are on a me, me, me, I'm going to have my way at any cost track? Opposition to your family, or defying authority figures or even a combination of both of those are not ODD. This disorder is a disaster and I feel bad for both the kids/adults diagnosed with it, but even more so their families and the hired help who have to deal with it. Kids with ODD are physically violent, some without ever having been threatened or traumatized, and can become homicidal on a whim. It highly depends on their victim mentality and whether or not they have other mental problems.
I think it's healthy to be both weary of and in opposition when it's in need when your with abusive asshole people that's a self defense mechanism not ODD yet of course they'd say you have it due to how much more abuse they can ink out of it! So no you can be with known assholes and abusers and it's ok to be this way as a self defense consider boundaries can be applied and they'll be like "what boundaries?" like my one abuser wants me to be a yes person like their kids have been trained to do and just cuz I won't I'm labeled as "back talking" it's like no what you want is not good for me like toss out all your stuff, don't have common things you need in the kitchen where you need it either put them in a whole nother room so when you need them they can't be accessed or toss them that's not me being ODD when I say no & they'll remain where I need them cuz they're for xyz that's me looking out for me due to they have no concept of how to do this with and for me. Once your away from their toxicit and or you've done emotional healing and shadow work you'll see what will resolve while still in place with toxic folks and what remains and why it's needed if you're going to keep choosing to stay amongst them for any number of reasons. The theory is once you leave them then what was there for protection will also fall away too as it's not needed due to you aren't in cage battle every day with them.
Wow. Just a brief description brings to mind past supervisees, customers, partners, and friends from decades ago. The total lack of consideration for suggestions, manners, feelings, good faith conversations, etc. are unforgettable.
Remember to differentiate this "Oppositional Defiant Disorder" from "Disorganised Attachment", although they can go together (well).
Interesting hint! I will look into this :)
Matt Damon's Good Will Hunting.
Thank you and I think I have oppositional defiant disorder. I appreciate this video
It's exhausting. You are spot on.
I think my adult daughter has this :/ she woke up one morning and said she was living with her dad ,her whole personality changed overnight,she is barely talking too me ,only if I am upto something good will she communicate with me and ask why she wasnt invited,but if I try to talk to her she tells me she's busy or go away ,she keeps saying she's annoyed .She isn't even talking to her grandad (who she was close with) she is saying she don't remember her childhood (although a month beforehand she could remember it) she was diagnosed when younger as having global development delay,but I think something else is going on with her.
I’ve been diagnosed with odd and adhd in my childhood. I was very revengeful and violent. I was someone who took the time to take revenge. Sometimes I would wait for years. My foster mother would tie me up and shave my head while her sons were laughing at me. She used to beat me up, push me from the stairs or made me eat food from the garbage can like fruit peels. When my foster father came home she would say that I did those things to myself (self harm) one of her sons SA me and threatend me not to tell anything. I knew I wouldn’t be able to defend myself to then because I didn’t had the physical strength. So I just let them do what ever they wanted, I bottled everything up. But when I became around the age of 12 I did everything to her and her sons what they did to me except for the shaving and SA. When I realised I was getting away with it I just became worse and worse and with the age of 13 the police removed me from that home which turned out to be a blessing. By the age of 16 I trained myself out of odd with the help of a therapist. After some time my foster mother and foster brothers admitted what they have done and I ignored them for 4 years. While remaining in contact with my foster dad. My first physical visit was at the age of 25. I’m almost 30 now and migrated with my husband and I have a child now. My pregnancy made it easier to communicate with them. It made both parties softer towards each other
I don't think that's ODD. Trust me. You were seriously abused and traumatised. It's horrific, but it's not ODD. ODD is a resistance to authority, cooperation, any control at all, even reasonable stuff like "Could you do your homework before dinner, or even at all? Could you put your clothes in the laundry basket?" They will be vindictive and provoke people, but it's more demonstrating they are the one in control. The only crime of the other person is aurhority. It doesn't go away, but some people find work arounds. I think you reacted to take revenge, and when you realised it doesn't serve you outside of that situation, you got out of the habit. I'm not a doctor, but I have experience with ODD.
I am glad you're doing better now. ❤
And so, what’s the cure?
@@lookinside7625 we are all called to become mature adults, willing to grow in character. By willfully not doing so, we not only hurt ourselves, but those around us. The cycle can end with us, the quest on how is the question.
There is no cure, just insight and workarounds. For example, a job where you work on your own, little interaction with a supervisor.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for speaking to this from the perspective of an ADULT!! This is VERY HARD TO FIND....
Thank you so much for your channel -- it's helping me a lot.
What do I do if my partner has this and is in denial? Can anyone point me to a spouse support group?
I was diagnosed this at 8years old and thinking it still applies as an adult thinking about it and why I get fired from jobs within 6 months from every job I've ever had. I also have adhd and high functioning autism that runs in the family and some psychiatrist say I have bi-polar and other say it borderline personality disorder...
It's so frustrating, at work I'm told it's always something even after I got better doing what they told me last to work on.
Idk how people keep jobs so easily, I'm extremely envious.
Edit, I like to believe I didn't have a chaotic very unhealthy childhood but every therapist says I did and still do around my family. 😒
I suggest you look for jobs where you work on your own without supervision as much as possible. If there's a clearly defined procedure for everything, that works for one person I know.
If someone has been diagnosed with autism and ODD or narcissism, either two is a very bad combination. It makes things even more trying for the parent. No deep relationship and sadly it doesn’t look like we ever will. One thing is right and that is he has a job and kept it for over 2 and a half years.
Thanks Darren ☀️☕❤️
This video describes my husband perfectly.
best title ever... Self-harm for blinds wash your eyes for COVID recovery...
Wow, sound exactly like me. I'm happy I'm not the only one.
I could be wrong but it sounds like Narcissistic behaviour as well? Could you please explain the difference? Thank you Dr Darren 👍
I'm no doctor but I would think it is ego. I have a family member who has these traits and came here to know more about it, at first I was researching narcissism but he doesn't at all have a big ego. He just doesn't like authority, society and being told no, doesn't take accountability and goes against the grain in most aspects of his life. But he genuinely doesn't have much of an ego, unlike someone else that is a covert narc that I know.
what a frustrating disorder to have to navigate ... [you know for the ppl around them]
how on earth could you successfully treat someone with this massive lack of self awareness.
i am very interested in your Tourettes vid u just put out....
time ... can 'sometimes' be my enemy my friend .. but we 'make' time for the things that are important to us .. x
Seems like the people who get kicked off airplanes, causing a delay for everybody onboard.
You just described my narcissist ex.
Is that the Enterprise on that shelf? I'm totally in love.
It is yes 👍
@darrenfmagee. How can I help my 23 yrs old son if he was diagnosed with ADHD / ODD when he was 4 but now as an adult he doesn't seem to understand that needs help. Everything that you mention in the video he does. What can I do?
I have a violent neighbour with NPD who definitely has this too. It’s taken me over three years to get the council and police to prosecute. Even with my video evidence she kept denying her abusive behaviour and insist I was the ‘troublemaker’. Even before she targeted me I noticed that she was only happy when she was angry at someone, and for the most nonsensical reasons.
When tutors add embarrassment to a child making a fool of himself can trigger it.
Thanks for posting. Our eldest 27 yr old daughter has been significantly struggling for around 7 years. Raised in what she considers an unhealthy household while her siblings are perfectly fine and independent. Our daughter is now back in the house after a retraining order against her from last year. Its absolutely unbearable in the house with her. She criticizes her parents for chewing food, has no interest in any form of work and believes she is entitled to find someone who will take care of her. She's college educated, beautiful in appearance and has no interest in drugs nor alcohol - it's all about her health. The expletives and derogatory name calling is as bad as can be imagined - nothing positive comes from her and she seems trapped in circular thinking, we are at a loss as to how to help her. We know she has experienced trauma in her adult life and she claims her parents are the cause of everything. Her siblings don't want to visit the home because she is in it and they can attest to being treated the same way.
Is she going to a therapist? I’m trained out of it/ grew out of it. But only with help. The first year was switching between therapist but when we found one that was compatible I grew very quickly. However, I was younger than your daughter
Blame shifting? Mirroring just to pull the rug out from under you, this description you speak of sounds a lot like NPD. So what is the difference? Do they have the ability to reflect? Are they pretty neutral unless angry? So they are aware of their malicious behavior? 😢
I was researching NPD to try to understand the actions and behavior of someone I know, although everything you described does sound like him, the egotistical nature didn't stick with him at all. It is as if he goes against the grain even to spite himself, pushing himself down.
Yes you can grow out/ train out of odd. That happens way more often than with npd. Npd includes smear campaigns, flying monkeys, lying, ect. and it’s all planned and for the sake of sedisfaction (excuse my English 😅)
While with odd it’s lack of self control, impulsive and it doesn’t necessarily make you feel good. At least in my experience I really disliked the outcome of my actions
They diagnosed me with this as a child with my adhd I don’t think I have it I just think for myself. Seems like this world is designed for everyone else except the people with adhd
I had to walk away from someone like this recently. They made a mountain out of a molehill and what ensued was psychologically unsafe and resembled narcissistic abuse and gaslighting. The intent may not be there in ODD as it is in NPD but, if these people can’t take advice or constructive feedback, I’m not going to stick around to be subjected to further rages.
Is there a situation where the odd symptoms just show with their partners while being very ppl pleasing towards friends and coworkers? It’s grinding me up. He also blows up with his kids over the smalles things and aaaalways feels personally attacked and misunderstood. He is a loving soul craving for connection and i know this is not happening intentionally, but i as his partner feel very very exhausted from all the pointless confrontations that grow into full blown fights. Suffering from bpd myself it is very very triggering for me. I feel like i have to hold it together for 2 ppl constantly.
Dodi
-yes, I am in same situation. I believe my husband is ODD, ADHD and narcissist. I know for a fact he is Mr. Popular at work, he’s like a walking living Jesus himself. But at home everything is unleashed on me! It’s about controlling others, so at work he’s controlling his image, and at home he’s controlling and bullying -because he’s more interested in hurting the wife, kids, family, it inflicts more pain than people at his job who don’t really care.
I’m living it, and trying to survive at this point.
It could be narcissism too
He’s not a continually angry person. Lots of put-downs, and I say back to him that I am his mother. You only have one mother. Don’t talk to me like that. My sister has narcissistic tendencies, and he has repeatedly said “You’re jealous of her.” I shared him personal stories growing up with my sister (my Dad is also narcissistic) and my experiences throughout my adulthood, cruel experiences, and he continued to take her side. I told him she has shown you that side but there is a lot more to her than that. She does that to be charming and manipulative. He’s very bossy and refuses to see anyone’s other viewpoint but his own.
Is this Demand Avoidance also?
Is there a way to treat this disorder in adults? Is there a connection between ODD and childhood trauma?
I also would like to know
I think you should start to treat it in childhood. I grew out of it with therapy
The contradiction of oppositional defiance disorder in adult relationships is this is something that usually is a childhood dysfunction. Bare with me. It doesn't just happen unless there's some catastrophic brain injury that changes a person's personality or some kind of trauma post traumatic stress something like that. One of my siblings has a son whom we all understood had some kind of autism going on by the time he was three. Of course this was some years back and it wasn't until he was in high school that they finally labeled it defiance disorder. By that time it had been a freaking nightmare dealing with this child. Adults don't just develop oppositional defiant disorder and I don't believe that they can mask it when they meet someone they can't put it on the shelf for a year or two until they get in a relationship get a ring on a finger and then all of a sudden guess what I have oppositional defiance disorder. There are going to be huge red flags when you first meet. Like I said a lot of them are just assholes or what I would call rebels without a clue they're pissed off they don't know why but the whole world is against them and they're bullies that seems to be the common thread through all of this narcissism and behavioral problems there seems to be an under current of viciousness and they control when they whip it out on you.
Here's the tricky part, if the have NPD comorbid, that may compensate for the lack of charm in ODD. NPD people will tend to love bomb in the early relationship and then allowing reel back the curtains once the ring is secured
Very good of you to not only stigmatize us humans living with ODD, but to do it in a manner devoid of any discussion of possible causes or treatments.
Guess it's because psychiatry still doesn't understand the inner workings of the brain or personality development? Is it pseudoscience, like the lie detector?
I felt it was a distorted, negative description, possibly of someone with little insight into their condition. The paranoia/victim stuff doesn't match the person I know. But I see one comment that says they know someone exactly like that who doesn't believe he needs help. A few people thought they know someone with ODD, but I don't believe that's the case. Others seem more likely. There's a lot of misunderstanding. Anyway, do your best to find work arounds. Try to remember not everyone wants control. We just want to get stuff done. Thanks, and take care.
Is this why I always have to be told "why" in order to take what's said seriously? lol, I recently started working w/adolescent psych population & found the "problematic" kids just wanted to know the "why". I'm the same way. It would be a psychiatric emergency on other shifts yet those specific kids not only listened, but they appreciated the "why"/reinforced the reasoning to kids not listening- I had not really seen that before but all the similarities make me think I have adult ODD possibly.
Nope. They will argue with you no matter how good the Why is. They don't want to cooperate at all. They want to control, rather than be controlled. They provoke authority figures.
Interesting and informative video. I've suspected for about 4 or 5 years now that I have ODD. Before doing a video search on this, I had been reading a bit about it as I had gotten triggered by a photo on another website that was about reason's why some children urinate on floors when angry or upset. The photo was of a young child with a very angry and determined look in his eyes. I immediatly recognized the emotions behind those young eyes. It was the "I'm going to get you!" look. When I was about 9 years old, I went grocery shopping with my eldist brother, his wife and kids. I had never been shopping with them before. When we got inside the store and he'd gotten a shopping cart and began to head down an aisle, he suddenly turned to his kids and maybe me too but, I wasn't sure at the time and told us "...not to touch anything." I remember thinking that that was strange as my mother had never had a problem with me picking up or examening items in stores and had never told me not to touch anything in a store whilst she was shopping. As we continued down the aisle, behind the adults with me lagging behind a bit and browsing, my youngest nephew took a pack of candy off of a peg to look at it. My brother who is his father turned around and seen this. I beginning to get triggered by the memory right now and am trying to stay focused so as not to dissociate. So, his dad walks over to him, takes the package of candy out of his hand, puts it back on the peg then, while holding his wrist in one hand proceeds to give the top of his hand a smack with his other hand then, goes back to the shopping cart and proceeds down the aisle. I remember thinking that such a punishment was harsh for what seemed like such a minor thing. As we continued down the aisle, I thought about taking a candy package off of a peg to look at for myself. After all, their dad was my brother. He wasn't MY dad and I was older than his kids and had never had to deal with such harsh rules so, I picked up an interesting package of candy and looked it over. Soon, my brother turned around and saw me with the candy, walked over to me, took the package of candy out of my hand and place it back on the peg -here it comes. I'm about to change and...I WANT too ):-). - He held my wrist the same way and smacked the top of my hand the same way then, went right back to shopping as though nothing had occurred. It hurt in my heart and it was humiliating. TREATED like a helpless little misbehaved child RIGHT THERE in the grocery store of all places!! It was so humiliating!! I HATED him!! I felt weak and helpless! I immediatley dissociated into the one who was less afraid of adults. The anger and the hate felt like power in my veins. I or we knew that because he was an adult that we couldn't hit him without having to endure more humiliation with a painful spanking so, we devised a way to get back at him. He had hurt us and now WE were going to hurt him by pissing him off in public! Right there in the store, in public, in front of his wife and kids and anyone else who saw. I/We started by mimicking the hand smacks on some of his kids in a playful way toward them so as not to hurt them and at first he didn't notice so, we kept it up (Me and my other self). It was funny. We enjoyed it and finally he turned around and saw. He was angry and trying to control his anger. He walked toward us, towering over us, looking down at us, visibly pissed off. Here I go (sorry) I'm beginning to regress to child mental state and laughing about this! So, anyway he says in a low, clearly very angry, almost menacing tone "Are you making FUN of me?" to which we looked up into his angry face and said "Noo" in a not very honest, more or less "Whatever DO you mean??" tone. He turned and went back to the shopping cart. It worked! I had TAKEN the power back!! I wasn't done with him though. I was enjoying being this other vindictive and defiant self! I don't like humans and I still find myself HATING adults at times! So, on another aisle I got his daughter to laugh at a box of popcorn that read "Buttered Popcorn" and I read it out as "Butt Red Popcorn". As we giggled at it, my brother overheard us laughing and walked over and read the box then, said "WHAT is SO FUNNY about Buttered Popcorn!?" Neither of us would look him in the eye, there was a pause and then he said "You were saying BUTT RED POPCORN, WEREN'T YOU?!" We both looked down, trying to stop laughing. We left soon after and I don't recall the rest of that night. Not even going out to the parking lot to get in the car. Not sure how I feel right now. The hate is gone but, I sense a lingering irritability. In case anyone's wandering, the answer is "Yes. I did suffer some abuses as a child both by some family members, a few school teachers over the years and a lot of bullies which was mainly in school." My dad was an authoritarian parent but, I do remember him being good to me when I was little but, I ALWAYS knew that you don't EVER disobey him. I grew up a timid child, afraid of adults and obedient more out of fear than love and respect. This man's body is 51 years old now. He does what he can to protect me because I'm just a child but, he has trouble sometimes because he kinda like crippled kind of in a way in his mind and emotions. I'm sorry for the evil things I said. We don't always know who we are. Thank you for reading this.
Just been told I have this.
Yep. This is me.
Is ODD nature or nurture?
My sister
Mr. Magee shows a great deal of compassion but misses the point. The problem with established psychology (and the DSM5 and the use of the social judgements and the underlying values that support it), is that it fails to understand how human epigenetics work. The truth is Outliers are SUPPOSED to behave as they do. Outlier people exists because our human epigenetic function is a survival mechanism that responds to environmental threats to our survival and turns on genes that create people whose larger social function is to force change (in everyone else). This might be people who think differently, who choose not to reproduce or behave differently (among many options).
The argument is that the greater their number and the more extreme their differences, the more urgent the social change (for our survival) we need to make. This means that despite the emotional suffering these people experience and the disruption and suffering they cause, they are not dysfunctional. WE ARE.
In fact WE MADE THEM ON PURPOSE for our greater social survival. Their “job” in our society is to show us that we are behaving “wrong” and for our survival, we need to change.
Thus, an angry and disruptive child or later adult (that otherwise does not have a medical problem at root, like a tumour or brain injury, or neglect or abuse they cannot tolerate) was born because the stresses of our environment during gestation turned on those genes to make them like that, so that when our society interacts with them (let's say, in the classroom or workplace, church or pub) they send back the message that the “social institution” is wrong and needs to change. In the cases of antisocial behaviours, diagnose first the people who have authority in life and the organizations they run, (from the family on up), then judge and work to change them, before presuming that changing the child or adult person fixes anything.
I think what I perceive you are saying is the difference between ODD and narcissism is ODD wears this “badge” of “how fair the world is.” My son doesn’t seem to have this. He definitely says how fair the world is in some situations, like not being able to move out on his own because he can’t find secure and affordable housing, but so do his former classmates. It seems like his viewpoint is polar opposite but not always.
Our son was treated unfairly while on public transportation. He was punched in the face for no reason. Our son reports he keeps to himself, usually on his phone, and it’s like a survival mechanism because there are a lot of “weirdos” who take the subway and bus, especially at night. If he had ODD, would he not have only reported it, but talk endlessly about it and how grossly unfair it was? He might not have shown up for work the next day or several days. None of these two things happened.
He hasn’t broken the laws. He has a pretty good work attendance record, is good at saving, and he even completed his taxes early after his first year of working. If he had ODD, wouldn’t he “bitch and complain” about having to do it or not bother to do it at all? Mind you, not all that difficult with an uncomplicated work history, fewer credits to claim since he is still young, not in school etc. He was also expecting a refund.
I know someone who's had this his whole life. I don't believe the persecution, victimhood, unfairness concept is the main point at all. I've also read all the books on this by professionals. These people cannot stand being told what to do. They resist authority. They have major discomfort about being controlled. Instead they want to control you. They will provoke adults, endlesssly argue, refuse to cooperate at all. They feel power when they get a reaction. They will escalate if you're too calm. They can be vindictive. They don't think the rules apply to them. They have been like this consistently over six months. It is not a teenage phase. It is not paranoia about anyone out to get them. They may be good with money, or not. They may keep jobs well if they have a good measure of control. As Darren said though, they could have this together with another disorder. ADHD is common. But you can see how differently it may present if they had generalised anxiety disorder, for example. They also may insult, curse or disrespect you. No one can diagnose on the internet, but I would say if your child has this, you will instantly know it when you read the first book on the subject. Parents are usually at their wits' end.
@@user-ov4wr5yu4r Our son has also done most of these things but much more so when younger. He is also autistic so there’s that. We were at our “wits end” Just commenting about how it is DIFFERENT from narcissism. OCD can turn into narcissism. We are living it!!! Maybe because I’ve talked about this endlessly on other channels about other examples, but there are several, even though he is a young adult. I was trying to focus on the positive.
@@user-ov4wr5yu4r I don’t appreciate you presuming to know how life is for us. I have education, experience in this not just from textbooks. Don’t assume that because I didn’t comment at length that I didn’t already know that.
I'm always told that I'm a rebel without a cause but I can see its an effect of triangulation.
My son was diagnosed with autism in childhood along with ODD. I think the ODD is really narcissism though.
Is there help for these people?
Yes
So much put in one term, it’s not as helpful. If someone struggles to perform, the safest and easier thing to do is depend yourself by saying it’s something else, the system, the teacher, the boss, etc. In school, many students learn that disagreeing is an easier path, way to cover for not doing the work or not really understanding. And, that opposition is so often reinforced socially, you can become part of a social group, of deniers, defenders, liberators, etc.
That’s ODD, thanks
Maybe that's why Antiheros are so popular.
Lol this is me , if my boss tells me to give less food to the customers i give more 😀
Im proud of my work haha. I rather get fired then fffing up customers orders. Nobody may leave hungry they pay enough. Its a pride thing haha
Everyone in the comment section here is a POS. ODD isn’t narcissism. It’s not done intentionally.
Also at 9:30 I have to disagree, it actually feels like my insides are on fire
I prefer to call them "rebels without a clue"
Thankfully my ex boyfriend told me he was diagonesd with ODD when he was a child lol
There is no such thing as authority. There is only those who would seek to impose their will on others. Recognizing this is the polar opposite of a "disorder"
Nailed it! (With the exception of those who refuse to allow their targets to be an authority of themselves... That's when their narcissism comes in)
👍🏻
Well, I might have ODD. Being raised by an authoritarian father, only girl among 4 brothers and a mother dominated by my father, I guess I've developed this. It is not easy because the more you are unfairly treated the more you become defiant. Being defiant saved me in my relationship with an abusive husband who's only purpose was dominated and controlled me. I ended up with PTSD and my ODD increased. Learning about this disorder helps me to understand and maybe manage myself better. 😊
Do they "reserve the right to change their mind?" 😂 Or is that the malignant narcissist. Oppositional defiance reminds me so much of dealing with a narc. Ugh.
So your saying your conformist and play by the rules? You admit it's a game then you need rules!
TMDWU
I don't want to watch this video
Anyone up for starting a revolution?
This sounds like 9 out of 10 progressives in US politics...
My grandson was "diagnosed" with this. The cure was spanking and learning to respect his parent's authority. The Bible holds the answers to raising children yet it is not for the weak and spineless.
You need a microphone
This sounds like narcissisiom. We should not diagnose others. Leave that to the professionals.
Odd leading to antisocial or narcissistic personality disorder. Antagonistic behaviors. R/o ied
Thanks for this I always though of it as a childhood problem. R/o f60.81
In their first meta-analysis of 33 studies of more than 2,000 AAIs administered to adolescent and adult clinical populations, van IJzendoorn and Bakermans-Kranenburg (1996) concluded that clinical samples were characterized by “a strong overrepresentation of insecure attachment” in general, and specifically that “the U category was strongly overrepresented[,] . . . as was the E category”. However, with respect to AAI primary attachment classifications as they relate to psychopathology, the authors stated, “The relations between oppositional and conduct disorders and Ds attachment, and between affective disorders and E attachment, are not clearly and convincingly supported by the available evidence”. In a follow-up meta-analysis of over 200 studies with over 10,000 AAIs given to various clinical samples, Bakermans-Kranenburg and van IJzendoorn (2009) were able to draw the following conclusion:
Disorders with an internalizing dimension (e.g., borderline personality disorders) were associated with more preoccupied and unresolved attachments, whereas disorders with an externalizing dimension (e.g., antisocial personality disorders) displayed more dismissing as well as preoccupied attachments. Depressive symptomatology was associated with insecurity but not with unresolved loss or trauma, whereas adults with abuse experiences or PTSD were mostly unresolved.
ODD doesn't lead to NPD or AsPD. You're thinking of Conduct Disorder
@@bombshelterfoxes Haven't studied it in years. Was only familiar with it in kids.
We live in a messed up world. Glad to be done with the clinical rat race. So many comorbidities and dx dilemas.
@@edgreen8140 That's why Adult Attachment Repair is so important.